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Posted by: Yoda, June 9, 2021, 11:59pm
Croatia have announced they will not take the knee, good on them.
I hope they smash our woke losers.
Does anyone know where you can buy a Croatia shirt.?
Posted by: supertown, June 10, 2021, 12:06am; Reply: 1
That’s my team now , Croatia
Posted by: Southwark Mariner, June 10, 2021, 12:20am; Reply: 2
In 2003 I went to see a film called Elephant. It was a fictional recreation of the Columbine school massacre. At the end of the film the entire cinema was completely silent and not moving from their seats as the credits rolled. I was at the end of the row and someone sat next to me (from Scunthorpe actually!) indicated they wanted to leave so I stood up to let them out. Everyone turned their heads as if I didn't care about the people who had been killed and the person next to me stayed seated, leaving me as the only person in the entire cinema standing up.

Anyway, everyone left the cinema, I was just the one they all stared at for a few seconds before going home.
Posted by: gtfc98, June 10, 2021, 12:46am; Reply: 3
Christ, and you lot call us snowflakes.
Posted by: HoratiusEberlin, June 10, 2021, 1:23am; Reply: 4
‘England's first away game in the Nations League against Croatia will be played behind closed doors, says Uefa.

The ban on fans is part of Croatia's punishment after a swastika was marked on their pitch before a Euro 2016 home qualifier against Italy.

The game against Italy was already being played behind closed doors after Croatia were punished for racist chants by fans against Norway.’
Posted by: KingstonMariner, June 10, 2021, 2:48am; Reply: 5
Quoted from Yoda
Croatia have announced they will not take the knee, good on them.
I hope they smash our woke losers.
Does anyone know where you can buy a Croatia shirt.?


I suppose you consider yourself a patriot, yet you can’t even write in English properly. There’s no apostrophe in “Euros”, muppet.

By the way, the Ustaša were on the other side during the War. You might want to think a little bit harder.

Posted by: KingstonMariner, June 10, 2021, 2:49am; Reply: 6
Quoted from supertown
That’s my team now , Croatia


Another traitor.
Posted by: ginnywings, June 10, 2021, 5:29am; Reply: 7
I'm not going to use Croatia as a moral compass. About as racist as they come and not averse to a bit of ethnic cleansing.

I hope we thrash 'em.
Posted by: HertsGTFC, June 10, 2021, 6:45am; Reply: 8
What a stupid post.
Posted by: Grimsbynewhope, June 10, 2021, 6:55am; Reply: 9
FFS how many more times
Posted by: GollyGTFC, June 10, 2021, 7:02am; Reply: 10
Quoted from Yoda
Croatia have announced they will not take the knee, good on them.
I hope they smash our woke losers.
Does anyone know where you can buy a Croatia shirt.?


What are you scared of?

What worries you about a group of people giving a demonstration of their anti-racist views & solidarity with people who continue to suffer daily racism and discrimation?

I have a theory that some white people who grew up in poverty, who didn’t do very well at school, who left with little or no qualifications and have spent their lives moving between poorly paid jobs and being unemployed’s only solace in life was the thought “well at least I’m not black”.

But suddenly the majority of people in the country want everyone to be treated equally and not based purely on the colour of their skin. But that would suddenly leave those sad, bitter white people who have done nothing with their lives and only sense of pride was in “not being black” at the bottom of the ladder.

I’m not suggesting for a moment that you fall into that category, but I am interested why some people are so angry and scared about a diverse group of 26 successful young Englishmen making a stand against racism.

After all if it’s okay for you to spout your opinions on this message board why is it not okay for the England football team to show their opinion on racism and discrimation in this country by taking the knee?

It seems that freedom of speech only matters when you agree with what the other person/people are saying.

I am genuinely interested what makes people so angry and want to boo taking the knee. I am fortunate that I received a very good state education and went to a Grammar School, but other than it shows the person is racist I can’t think of a good reason why people object to taking the knee.

And that question is open to anyone opposed to taking the knee, why are you so angry at the idea of treating people equally?

Oh and I don’t want that pathetic excuse that BLM are all Marxists.
Posted by: pizzzza, June 10, 2021, 7:14am; Reply: 11
FFS, here we go again. I get that we should not censor debate but please, whether you like it or not, keep all the "taking the knee" stuff on the one thread so the board does not get clogged up with multiple threads on the same subject.
Posted by: aldi_01, June 10, 2021, 7:24am; Reply: 12
Quoted from GollyGTFC


What are you scared of?

What worries you about a group of people giving a demonstration of their anti-racist views & solidarity with people who continue to suffer daily racism and discrimation?

I have a theory that some white people who grew up in poverty, who didn’t do very well at school, who left with little or no qualifications and have spent their lives moving between poorly paid jobs and being unemployed’s only solace in life was the thought “well at least I’m not black”.

But suddenly the majority of people in the country want everyone to be treated equally and not based purely on the colour of their skin. But that would suddenly leave those sad, bitter white people who have done nothing with their lives and only sense of pride was in “not being black” at the bottom of the ladder.

I’m not suggesting for a moment that you fall into that category, but I am interested why some people are so angry and scared about a diverse group of 26 successful young Englishmen making a stand against racism.

After all if it’s okay for you to spout your opinions on this message board why is it not okay for the England football team to show their opinion on racism and discrimation in this country by taking the knee?

It seems that freedom of speech only matters when you agree with what the other person/people are saying.

I am genuinely interested what makes people so angry and want to boo taking the knee. I am fortunate that I received a very good state education and went to a Grammar School, but other than it shows the person is racist I can’t think of a good reason why people object to taking the knee.

And that question is open to anyone opposed to taking the knee, why are you so angry at the idea of treating people equally?

Oh and I don’t want that pathetic excuse that BLM are all Marxists.


Nail and head…
Posted by: GrimRob, June 10, 2021, 7:59am; Reply: 13
I've never been a fan of singing allegiance to the UK monarch at the start of England games but it's never stopped me supporting England.
Posted by: TAGG, June 10, 2021, 8:07am; Reply: 14
FFS not again.
Could we move this thread to please.
Enough is enough.
Posted by: Knut Anders Fosters Voles, June 10, 2021, 8:19am; Reply: 15
Quoted from TAGG
FFS not again.
Could we move this thread to please.
Enough is enough.


To please who?
Posted by: supertown, June 10, 2021, 8:28am; Reply: 16
Just to clarify, I don’t care what colour people are I just think taking the knee is problematic,controversial and unnecessary. Achieved nothing but further problems
Posted by: aldi_01, June 10, 2021, 8:30am; Reply: 17
Quoted from GrimRob
I've never been a fan of singing allegiance to the UK monarch at the start of England games but it's never stopped me supporting England.


Always been part of my argument…
Posted by: golfer, June 10, 2021, 8:35am; Reply: 18
I'm not one little bit racist but it's being rammed down our throats - nearly everytime you turn the TV on there is a non-white facing you
Posted by: Mayaman, June 10, 2021, 9:29am; Reply: 19
Quoted from GollyGTFC


What are you scared of?

What worries you about a group of people giving a demonstration of their anti-racist views & solidarity with people who continue to suffer daily racism and discrimation?

I have a theory that some white people who grew up in poverty, who didn’t do very well at school, who left with little or no qualifications and have spent their lives moving between poorly paid jobs and being unemployed’s only solace in life was the thought “well at least I’m not black”.

But suddenly the majority of people in the country want everyone to be treated equally and not based purely on the colour of their skin. But that would suddenly leave those sad, bitter white people who have done nothing with their lives and only sense of pride was in “not being black” at the bottom of the ladder.

I’m not suggesting for a moment that you fall into that category, but I am interested why some people are so angry and scared about a diverse group of 26 successful young Englishmen making a stand against racism.

After all if it’s okay for you to spout your opinions on this message board why is it not okay for the England football team to show their opinion on racism and discrimation in this country by taking the knee?

It seems that freedom of speech only matters when you agree with what the other person/people are saying.

I am genuinely interested what makes people so angry and want to boo taking the knee. I am fortunate that I received a very good state education and went to a Grammar School, but other than it shows the person is racist I can’t think of a good reason why people object to taking the knee.

And that question is open to anyone opposed to taking the knee, why are you so angry at the idea of treating people equally?

Oh and I don’t want that pathetic excuse that BLM are all Marxists.


Good post but you might want to change some of your wording so that the people you talk about can actually understand it.

Posted by: Chrisblor, June 10, 2021, 9:37am; Reply: 20
Quoted from golfer
I'm not one little bit racist but it's being rammed down our throats - nearly everytime you turn the TV on there is a non-white facing you


"I'm not racist" yet by the end of the sentence you're complaining about the proliferation of "non-whites" lmao
Posted by: Son of Cod, June 10, 2021, 9:51am; Reply: 21
Quoted from Yoda
woke losers.

Hahahaha, as if empathy and caring about social issues are negative traits. Is Rashford a woke loser for providing school kids from disadvantaged families with food?

Quoted from golfer
I'm not one little bit racist but it's being rammed down our throats - nearly everytime you turn the TV on there is a non-white facing you

Jesus Christ, you should be writing a satirical sitcom with that kind of wordsmithery in your locker.
Posted by: Meza, June 10, 2021, 9:54am; Reply: 22
Quoted from GrimRob
I've never been a fan of singing allegiance to the UK monarch at the start of England games but it's never stopped me supporting England.


England Rugby don't sing God save the Queen why is that?
Posted by: LH, June 10, 2021, 10:31am; Reply: 23
Anyone supporting Croatia over England on here should take a knee. In the balderdash.
Posted by: ska face, June 10, 2021, 10:34am; Reply: 24
Quoted from supertown
Just to clarify, I don’t care what colour people are I just think taking the knee is problematic,controversial and unnecessary. Achieved nothing but further problems


The problems being caused by...who?

The adult babies of course. Most normal people would have just got on with their lives a year ago instead of making a show of themselves.
Posted by: LH, June 10, 2021, 10:43am; Reply: 25
Tweet 1402922551928557572 will appear here...


Most people are fed up of the knee thing according to a minority of people.
Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, June 10, 2021, 10:57am; Reply: 26
Quoted from LH
Tweet 1402922551928557572 will appear here...


Most people are fed up of the knee thing according to a minority of people.


That only provides further evidence that supporters are divided and some will show their displeasure before we have even kicked off. Hardly the best way to start important matches, is it?

Taking the knee has not made one iota of difference apart from alienating some sections of the fan base.
Posted by: Townforlife, June 10, 2021, 10:59am; Reply: 27
Better Woke than Dozy 😉
Posted by: jamesgtfc, June 10, 2021, 11:16am; Reply: 28


That only provides further evidence that supporters are divided and some will show their displeasure before we have even kicked off. Hardly the best way to start important matches, is it?

Taking the knee has not made one iota of difference apart from alienating some sections of the fan base.


You could also argue then that if we were to stop to doing it, that would also alienate some sections of the fanbase?

It's a few seconds before a game, people need to get over themselves.
Posted by: Chrisblor, June 10, 2021, 11:17am; Reply: 29


That only provides further evidence that supporters are divided and some will show their displeasure before we have even kicked off. Hardly the best way to start important matches, is it?

Taking the knee has not made one iota of difference apart from alienating some sections of the fan base.


Good, intercourse'em. They should drag their views and opinions into the 21st century instead of flailing about like big flipping babies.
Posted by: GollyGTFC, June 10, 2021, 11:24am; Reply: 30


That only provides further evidence that supporters are divided and some will show their displeasure before we have even kicked off. Hardly the best way to start important matches, is it?

Taking the knee has not made one iota of difference apart from alienating some sections of the fan base.


48% is too few to have your opinion even considered as valid and worth debating so 39%…
Posted by: Marinerdan, June 10, 2021, 11:44am; Reply: 31
Got to say I love Croatia, its a beautiful country.

There's definitely a racist element amongst their football fans, the national team was playing behind closed doors last time we where there. However, we didn't experience any racism, even outside of the main tourist areas. The people we met were universally lovely.

I know a lot of people are only against the 'Marxist' element of BLM rather then the anti-racism element. Not sure how much you know about Croatia but there is a huge amount of 'Marxism' left over from their communist past. Their education system is free all the way up to masters level, their healthcare is free and of a very good standard and most of the major industries are still state owned (oil, transport, telecommunications, water and even a chunk of the tourism industry).
Posted by: Sir Matt Tease, June 10, 2021, 11:50am; Reply: 32
Quoted from LH
Tweet 1402922551928557572 will appear here...


Most people are fed up of the knee thing according to a minority of people.


Is that the same minority who opposed Brexit ?

Posted by: Heisenberg, June 10, 2021, 12:02pm; Reply: 33
I personally am bored of the taking the knee, but then it’s easy for me as I’m white, but deep down I have no issue with the team keeping up their stance.

I think some, including me, react to the knee with thoughts like “yes, we get it, enough”, but of course there are the racists out there who definitely are racist, and they don’t get it.

The real problem is you’ll never completely eradicate racism, you can’t reach out to 100% of the population. When some idiot says something abhorrent on Twitter to a player, the papers jump on it and state that football has a problem with racism. Personally I don’t  think football has any worse a problem with racism than society as a whole. You can’t tarnish football as being overly racist when 1 tool from 67 million people makes outdated comments.

I actually think football in the uk is ahead of most other countries, but I do admit it’s probably still not enough.
Posted by: Morris Minor, June 10, 2021, 12:37pm; Reply: 34
We are supposed to be playing football not making political statements.
If you must take the knee do it in the dressing room and not in front of the crowd
:) :) :) :) :) :)
Posted by: kevikov, June 10, 2021, 12:40pm; Reply: 35
I beg forgiveness if this offends, it genuinely is not meant to. My query regarding taking the knee, or aversion to it I should say. Is that kneeling before someone shows subversion, like they are your master and you must obey and do as you are told so to speak. In history slaves were made to kneel, we’re thankfully at the point where this is not an acceptable thing to make someone do. So why are we taking the knee? Is it to highlight that taking the knee was wrong in the first place? That we all now are submissive to each other? That no one group of people or race have power over another? All the above? I applaud the direct and hopefully successful movement by humans to ensure equality for all people but wonder if a different symbol would knit us all together better or if a divisive one works because it is divisive. Again apologies if I’ve offended.
Posted by: Bristol Mariner, June 10, 2021, 12:43pm; Reply: 36
Poojah - stick to the comedy posts.
Posted by: Grimsbynewhope, June 10, 2021, 12:49pm; Reply: 37
Maybe we should call this thread I’m not a racist but…
Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, June 10, 2021, 12:54pm; Reply: 38
Oooh if UEFA kick out Croatia the broadcasters will not be happy at losing their prime match. Not that money is any consideration of course. ;)

So if expulsion  was used a threat and Croatian players then kneel ………… would that mean they really mean it? Then you have 2 teams doing it, one wants to and one doesn’t. But in the eyes of God they are all making the same gesture?

But I am sure some compromise will be reached whereby the Croatians will squeeze by.
Posted by: Yoda, June 10, 2021, 1:20pm; Reply: 39
It is not good when this action is being talked about more than the actual game.
Posted by: DB, June 10, 2021, 1:24pm; Reply: 40
Quoted from Yoda
It is not good when this action is being talked about more than the actual game.


You started it.  :-/

Posted by: RichMariner, June 10, 2021, 1:32pm; Reply: 41
Taking the knee has become a problem because people went searching to find a reason to not like it.

Why is that?

Those of us who are accused of being snowflakes aren't the delicate ones here. Think what you like about taking the knee but it isn't offensive to anyone. It's a quiet show of solidarity in wanting to improve society.

If you have a problem with that, then you're part of the problem.

And yes, for what it's worth, I believe the gesture has run its course. It's time to approach this topic differently and find another way, because the big social media corporations can do a lot more (and some sections of the government and media can stop inciting people so their deepest prejudices don't keep resurfacing).
Posted by: immariner, June 10, 2021, 1:34pm; Reply: 42
Quoted from Yoda
It is not good when this action is being talked about more than the actual game.


Irony is sonething that's a bit metallic to you I'm guessing? hahaha

I'm reminded of that Mickey Flanagan routine about the internet (edit, it was actually about reality telly). How thick people used to know they were thick and stayed hidden. Ahh the good old days.
Posted by: Grimsbynewhope, June 10, 2021, 1:39pm; Reply: 43
That’s not fair Yoda’s not clever enough to be called thick
Posted by: Tinymariner, June 10, 2021, 1:42pm; Reply: 44
Quoted from Grimsbynewhope
Maybe we should call this thread I’m not a racist but…


Posted by: GollyGTFC, June 10, 2021, 1:59pm; Reply: 45
Players taking the knee about racism and discrimination is them holding up a mirror to society. Those who choose to boo obviously don’t like what they see staring back at them.
Posted by: Kris2, June 10, 2021, 2:41pm; Reply: 46
Croatia refusing is not really a surprise since the Slavic nations are often massively racist, oppressing ethnic minorities in their countries,  the cause of several wars in the region. Kind of ironic in ways because of their history and the Nazis once wanted to exterminate them based on the fact they aren't Aryan people and their land would be better suited on the master race. I guess at points the oppressed become the oppressors again.
Posted by: Gaffer58, June 10, 2021, 2:52pm; Reply: 47
Out of interest how many on this board have taken the knee today, if not why not, it always seems to be the poor old (sorry, rich young) footballers/ sportspersons who are expected to show their solidarity with the oppressed etc.
Posted by: MeanwoodMariner, June 10, 2021, 3:03pm; Reply: 48
Quoted from RichMariner
Taking the knee has become a problem because people went searching to find a reason to not like it.

Why is that?

Those of us who are accused of being snowflakes aren't the delicate ones here. Think what you like about taking the knee but it isn't offensive to anyone. It's a quiet show of solidarity in wanting to improve society.

If you have a problem with that, then you're part of the problem.


We really are just going round in circles now. Whatever the origins were of taking the knee, whatever the current England squad say it means to them, it is inextricably linked to BLM. At the very least, BLM can be considered controversial in some aspects such as their ubiquitous slogan "all cops are illegitimates". I am not comfortable with that link and would absolutely love the players to do a different gesture to show that they think racism is bad. That's all there is to it.

Politicians like Boris Johnson and Donald Trump throw around blatant lies about what the Brexit deal will do or how many people turned up at their inauguration. I call out the BS and get labelled a libtard remoaner. Now people claim that taking the knee is in no way connected to BLM. Point out that that's absurd revisionism and you're an unreachable racist. I'll be honest, I think both are a tad unfair.
Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, June 10, 2021, 3:32pm; Reply: 49
Quoted from kevikov
I beg forgiveness if this offends, it genuinely is not meant to. My query regarding taking the knee, or aversion to it I should say. Is that kneeling before someone shows subversion, like they are your master and you must obey and do as you are told so to speak. In history slaves were made to kneel, we’re thankfully at the point where this is not an acceptable thing to make someone do. So why are we taking the knee? Is it to highlight that taking the knee was wrong in the first place? That we all now are submissive to each other? That no one group of people or race have power over another? All the above? I applaud the direct and hopefully successful movement by humans to ensure equality for all people but wonder if a different symbol would knit us all together better or if a divisive one works because it is divisive. Again apologies if I’ve offended.


You have no need to apologise. You make a valid point. The taking of the knee was the bandwagon to be jumped on at the time, but as usual, no one seemed to give any thought to the consequences in the future, regarding the aims of BLM and what the gesture meant in the wider sense.

It is no good Southgate now saying the players are taking the knee to combat racism only, when the act is front and centre of BLM and some of the more extreme things they stand for.

Is it not beyond the wit of the football authorities to come up with an all-encompassing and far-reaching attempt to educate and change attitudes within football?

I know, something like the Kick it out campaign which has received universal acclaim. Couldn't the players be photographed before the game holding a kick it out banner, which is aimed purely at ridding the game of racism and does not carry any of the stigmas of the BLM organisation?

I don't understand why they keep swimming against the tide unable to grasp the simple fact that taking the knee is the trademark of the BLM movement and its proclaimed aims which is an anathema to most fans. Keep taking the knee, and fans will continue to protest and sour the atmosphere before the game has even started.
Posted by: AdamHaddock, June 10, 2021, 3:35pm; Reply: 50
The knee protest originated with Kaepernick. He originally sat down during the anthem but after the furore that caused, he consulted a US military veteran on what would be a respectful way to protest
Posted by: Grimsbynewhope, June 10, 2021, 3:46pm; Reply: 51
Spin it how you want, make excuses how you want, blame everyone as much as you want.you know the real reason why you’re so against a simple protest.
It’s all in black and white.
Posted by: RichMariner, June 10, 2021, 4:07pm; Reply: 52
The players are taking a knee for racial equality. They are taking a knee in solidarity of each other.

They are not taking the knee for BLM.

This is so simple it's untrue. Heading for a 7th page in this thread, literally a day after another massive thread on exactly the same issue.
Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, June 10, 2021, 4:27pm; Reply: 53
Quoted from RichMariner
The players are taking a knee for racial equality. They are taking a knee in solidarity of each other.

They are not taking the knee for BLM.

This is so simple it's untrue. Heading for a 7th page in this thread, literally a day after another massive thread on exactly the same issue.


And if Croatian players now take the knee under threat of suspension/exclusion, how does that square with solidarity Rich?

Posted by: Grimsbynewhope, June 10, 2021, 4:34pm; Reply: 54
More to the point, how would you feel about supporters booing the players for not taking the knee, would that not be acceptable?
Posted by: Chrisblor, June 10, 2021, 4:46pm; Reply: 55


And if Croatian players now take the knee under threat of suspension/exclusion, how does that square with solidarity Rich?



“The Croatian Football Federation believes that the players have a right to their own opinion on these topics, and that they also have a right to choose whether they want to engage in any activity.

The players of the Croatian national team jointly decided ahead of the friendly match against Belgium that they will not take the knee and they respectfully stood in silence during the kneeling of their Belgian colleagues.

The Croatian Football Federation respects their stance on this and will not impose taking the knee as an obligation for Croatian players, as this gesture does not hold any symbolic ties to the fight against racism and discrimination in the context of Croatian culture and tradition.”

Honestly, do you flipping lot only bother reading things when they suit your argument. "ooh it's Marxist!!!" "ooooh it's connected to BLM in america" "oooh the Croatian FA are forcing their players to kneel". All easily disprovable balderdash. The real question here is why do you keep dredging up all these reasons for opposing a symbolic gesture which at worse costs you about 5-10 seconds of time that would have otherwise been spent on listening to inane pre-match build-up?
Posted by: aldi_01, June 10, 2021, 4:49pm; Reply: 56
Quoted from Chrisblor


“The Croatian Football Federation believes that the players have a right to their own opinion on these topics, and that they also have a right to choose whether they want to engage in any activity.

The players of the Croatian national team jointly decided ahead of the friendly match against Belgium that they will not take the knee and they respectfully stood in silence during the kneeling of their Belgian colleagues.

The Croatian Football Federation respects their stance on this and will not impose taking the knee as an obligation for Croatian players, as this gesture does not hold any symbolic ties to the fight against racism and discrimination in the context of Croatian culture and tradition.”

Honestly, do you flipping lot only bother reading things when they suit your argument. "ooh it's Marxist!!!" "ooooh it's connected to BLM in america" "oooh the Croatian FA are forcing their players to kneel". All easily disprovable balderdash. The real question here is why do you keep dredging up all these reasons for opposing a symbolic gesture which at worse costs you about 5-10 seconds of time that would have otherwise been spent on listening to inane pre-match build-up?


Don’t let facts get in the way of (frightened middle aged white men) a pointless story…
Posted by: Manchester Mariner, June 10, 2021, 4:50pm; Reply: 57
Where has the threat of being kicked out the tournament been mentioned for not taking the knee? I mean from an official source, not some chinese whispers.  As far as I was aware a number of countries have not committed to it or made it optional, Germany and Holland are doing this, are they getting chucked out?
Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, June 10, 2021, 5:18pm; Reply: 58
Quoted from Grimsbynewhope
Spin it how you want, make excuses how you want, blame everyone as much as you want.you know the real reason why you’re so against a simple protest.
It’s all in black and white.


I see Scotland have re-affirmed their position in not taking the knee. Surely you are not suggesting the entire Scotland team are racist, are you?

We will now have the incredible situation where England will be booed by some of their own fans before kick-off against the auld enemy in a major tournament.
Posted by: rancido, June 10, 2021, 5:27pm; Reply: 59
It's a choice of whether you take the knee or not, not a diktat. If your choose to not take the knee then does that make you a racist?
Posted by: RichMariner, June 10, 2021, 5:27pm; Reply: 60
Once again, I reiterate:

Players aren't kneeling because they are Marxists. They aren't kneeling because they are part of the BLM group.

They are kneeling to raise awareness of racial inequality.

They are doing it in a show of solidarity for each other, and for the millions of people who still suffer from racist abuse.

If you want to attribute any other meaning to it, you're entering a world of speculation and rumour. That's fine, but you've got to ask yourself: why are you searching for an alternative meaning?
Posted by: BobbyCummingsTackle, June 10, 2021, 5:28pm; Reply: 61
Quoted from Marinerdan
Got to say I love Croatia, its a beautiful country.

There's definitely a racist element amongst their football fans, the national team was playing behind closed doors last time we where there. However, we didn't experience any racism, even outside of the main tourist areas. The people we met were universally lovely.

I know a lot of people are only against the 'Marxist' element of BLM rather then the anti-racism element. Not sure how much you know about Croatia but there is a huge amount of 'Marxism' left over from their communist past. Their education system is free all the way up to masters level, their healthcare is free and of a very good standard and most of the major industries are still state owned (oil, transport, telecommunications, water and even a chunk of the tourism industry).


Yes these are the disgusting remnants of a Marxist past and they would undermine any right thinking country like ours. We would never accept:

Free healthcare
Free education (not to masters level but not far away)
State owned industries (UK government is primary shareholder in a number of banks [for example])

And we would never accept other Marxist constructs like:

Paying the majority of the wages of people forced out of work by a pandemic
Subsidising restaurants hit by a pandemic
Subsidising industries hit by a pandemic

Socialism/Marxism is unacceptable to Britain. Let's get back to talking about the Queen's picture being taken off a university common room wall.
Posted by: Rodley Mariner, June 10, 2021, 5:30pm; Reply: 62
Not doing it doesn't make you a racist. Booing it at least raises some question marks though doesn't it? Can't think of that many reasons why you'd boo an anti racism protest of 3 seconds even if you claim it's because you think Jordan Henderson wants to defund the police.
Posted by: BobbyCummingsTackle, June 10, 2021, 5:35pm; Reply: 63
And meanwhile, as we debate taking the knee again....

A government minister is found guilty by a judicial review of giving a government contract to a company with friends in the Cabinet Office.
Posted by: Manchester Mariner, June 10, 2021, 5:36pm; Reply: 64
Quoted from Rodley Mariner
Not doing it doesn't make you a racist. Booing it at least raises some question marks though doesn't it? Can't think of that many reasons why you'd boo an anti racism protest of 3 seconds even if you claim it's because you think Jordan Henderson wants to defund the police.


And Jordan Pickford is demanding a workers revolution and class war to smash capitalism.
Posted by: rancido, June 10, 2021, 5:38pm; Reply: 65
And meanwhile, as we debate taking the knee again....

A government minister is found guilty by a judicial review of giving a government contract to a company with friends in the Cabinet Office.


If you mean Cummins then he was never a Government Minister.
Posted by: ska face, June 10, 2021, 5:40pm; Reply: 66
It’s a mystery how some of you thick fúckers have reached your 60s and 70s. Some of you haven’t got the sense you were born with, unless you just act performatively stupid on here as a hobby?

There are children more clued up than some of the biggest whingers on here.
Posted by: BobbyCummingsTackle, June 10, 2021, 5:40pm; Reply: 67
Quoted from rancido


If you mean Cummins then he was never a Government Minister.


I mean Gove. He still is a government minister. They were Cummins friends.
Posted by: rancido, June 10, 2021, 5:41pm; Reply: 68
Quoted from Grimsbynewhope
Spin it how you want, make excuses how you want, blame everyone as much as you want.you know the real reason why you’re so against a simple protest.
It’s all in black and white.


So if I don't or refuse to "take the knee" does that make me a racist?
Posted by: rancido, June 10, 2021, 5:43pm; Reply: 69
Quoted from ska face
It’s a mystery how some of you thick fúckers have reached your 60s and 70s. Some of you haven’t got the sense you were born with, unless you just act performatively stupid on here as a hobby?

There are children more clued up than some of the biggest whingers on here.


Well I'm 73 with a university education so explain to me what you mean?
Posted by: ska face, June 10, 2021, 5:47pm; Reply: 70
Quoted from rancido


Well I'm 73 with a university education so explain to me what you mean?


I believe the phrase is “educated beyond your intelligence”.
Posted by: BobbyCummingsTackle, June 10, 2021, 5:48pm; Reply: 71
Quoted from Manchester Mariner


And Jordan Pickford is demanding a workers revolution and class war to smash capitalism.


I understand that there is friction in the England dressing room. Pickford is classically Marxist/Leninist while Phil Foden prefers a more Trotskyist approach but Tyrone Mings has been suggesting that the Cuban model should be considered.

Jack Grealish has been heard to say that he has been considering a Cuban model for a while but she won't let him near her.
Posted by: Grimsbynewhope, June 10, 2021, 5:54pm; Reply: 72
We will now have the incredible situation where England will be booed by some of their own fans before kick-off against the auld enemy in a major tournament.

Well doesn’t that make our so called fans look wonderful
Posted by: Grimsbynewhope, June 10, 2021, 5:59pm; Reply: 73
So if I don't or refuse to "take the knee" does that make me a racist?
No but booing people who do certainly makes me wonder
Posted by: BobbyCummingsTackle, June 10, 2021, 6:04pm; Reply: 74
Quoted from Grimsbynewhope
We will now have the incredible situation where England will be booed by some of their own fans before kick-off against the auld enemy in a major tournament.

Well doesn’t that make our so called fans look wonderful


To be honest, this would be the least of the things that make our supporters look "wonderful".....a short list hammered out in a few seconds:

Smashing up assorted cities across (mostly) Europe
No Surrender to the IRA being chanted
NF symbols regularly appearing on England flags
Chants about the war
The notorious visit to Auschwitz
and so on....
Posted by: rancido, June 10, 2021, 6:25pm; Reply: 75
Quoted from ska face


I believe the phrase is “educated beyond your intelligence”.


Well Ska Face maybe you can expand on that statement? Are you implying that I am not an intelligent person? Would that be interpretated as "knowledge shaming" or because, maybe, I don't share your opinion?
Posted by: DB, June 10, 2021, 6:29pm; Reply: 76
Quoted from ska face
It’s a mystery how some of you thick fúckers have reached your 60s and 70s. Some of you haven’t got the sense you were born with, unless you just act performatively stupid on here as a hobby?

There are children more clued up than some of the biggest whingers on here.


I don't mind criticism, after all that is what this site is all about. If we all agreed how boring it would be. So when the above generalsed comment is made aimed at many in one particular age group, without any reason or justification you have to ask why.

Isn't this a type of prejudice against one particular age group? Some of us could have health issues, others may not be white! Surely a broadly banded raging diatribe only degrades the author?

I don't know the answers but what I know is that everybody over 60 has been through the mill of life, and are as a group wiser than any group of children. The elderly use their brain, whereas children use google because they know no other way of finding information. They haven't been on the earth long enough.



Posted by: ska face, June 10, 2021, 6:38pm; Reply: 77
Quoted from rancido


Well Ska Face maybe you can expand on that statement? Are you implying that I am not an intelligent person? Would that be interpretated as "knowledge shaming" or because, maybe, I don't share your opinion?


Please, continue to prove my point. This is very amusing.
Posted by: golfer, June 10, 2021, 6:39pm; Reply: 78
Quoted from ska face
It’s a mystery how some of you thick fúckers have reached your 60s and 70s. Some of you haven’t got the sense you were born with, unless you just act performatively stupid on here as a hobby?

There are children more clued up than some of the biggest whingers on here.


Dimwit - why don't you lot turn your mirror round instead of the QUEENS portrait.
Posted by: rancido, June 10, 2021, 6:45pm; Reply: 79
Quoted from ska face


Please, continue to prove my point. This is very amusing.


What is amusing but also very enlightening and disturbing is that the you haven't answered my questions.
Posted by: Heswall Mariner, June 10, 2021, 7:19pm; Reply: 80
Well it seems we have a a multiracial team coming together & on this forum that's all I care about - Grimsby Town FC.
Posted by: ginnywings, June 10, 2021, 7:56pm; Reply: 81
Quoted from Gaffer58
Out of interest how many on this board have taken the knee today, if not why not, it always seems to be the poor old (sorry, rich young) footballers/ sportspersons who are expected to show their solidarity with the oppressed etc.


I have, dozens of times, though I was building some planters on the floor at the time.
Posted by: Yoda, June 10, 2021, 8:01pm; Reply: 82
Ska face always judges other people’s intelligence that is a sign he has none.
Posted by: Grantley, June 10, 2021, 8:14pm; Reply: 83
Quoted from DB


I don't mind criticism, after all that is what this site is all about. If we all agreed how boring it would be. So when the above generalsed comment is made aimed at many in one particular age group, without any reason or justification you have to ask why.

Isn't this a type of prejudice against one particular age group? Some of us could have health issues, others may not be white! Surely a broadly banded raging diatribe only degrades the author?

I don't know the answers but what I know is that everybody over 60 has been through the mill of life, and are as a group wiser than any group of children. The elderly use their brain, whereas children use google because they know no other way of finding information. They haven't been on the earth long enough.


That’s probably why the older generations continue to misjudge and get things wrong, when information is readily available for those willing to find it. Whereabouts do the over-60s get their info on how to counter racism then? Because it definitely isn’t from experience.
Posted by: Grimsbynewhope, June 10, 2021, 8:22pm; Reply: 84
Don’t assume everyone over 60 have the same opinion regarding racism or anything else
Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, June 10, 2021, 9:29pm; Reply: 85
Quoted from Grantley

That’s probably why the older generations continue to misjudge and get things wrong, when information is readily available for those willing to find it. Whereabouts do the over-60s get their info on how to counter racism then? Because it definitely isn’t from experience.


Discrimination against older people? Surely not in this day and age.  ;D

It is from experience, actually. On a local and national level. Anybody living through the 50's and 60's saw racism on an industrial scale. On a local football level, it was incredibly rare to see a black player.

We have come a very long way indeed from those days, and of course we, the older generation who lived through it and beyond are the people (now older, sadly) who helped to make things much better. Nobody will deny racism still exists today, but equally nobody can deny we have made great strides and the UK today is one of the most multicultural societies in the world, with very tough laws on equality.

Taking the knee is not helping, as can be seen on comments pages up and down the land with the sport almost taking a back seat. It is too aligned to a political agenda regardless of what the players say.
Posted by: TAGG, June 10, 2021, 10:18pm; Reply: 86
FAF
Says it all  ;D ;D

Posted by: DB, June 11, 2021, 5:26am; Reply: 87
Quoted from Grantley

That’s probably why the older generations continue to misjudge and get things wrong, when information is readily available for those willing to find it. Whereabouts do the over-60s get their info on how to counter racism then? Because it definitely isn’t from experience.


You make a lot of unwise assumptions. I for one have respected all people and have made a point of asking them how they wished to called, as in the early 70's an Asian couple move in next to me. I introduced myself and he told me his name. I asked him how to pronounce it as it was a very long Asian name I'd never heard of and he said 'Sam'. I gave him a strange look and then he explained. Where he worked nobody could pronounce his name so he was called 'Sambo' shortened to Sam and was in no way was there any racial discrimination there, merely a nickname which in those days was the norm.

Many years later a Caribbean gentleman moved next to me, following the same procedure he wanted to be called Andy, no problem.

I don't misjudge people and get things wrong as you state but I do use my lifelong experience to get things right. If there is a subject I know little or nothing about I ask.

In fact, I have an interesting question and I'm sure many on here will have an appropriate answer.

What do you call morons who have no respect for the elderly, who have not got the brains to realise that they, more than likely, will be in that age group one day?

Posted by: codcheeky, June 11, 2021, 7:03am; Reply: 88
Quoted from DB


You make a lot of unwise assumptions. I for one have respected all people and have made a point of asking them how they wished to called, as in the early 70's an Asian couple move in next to me. I introduced myself and he told me his name. I asked him how to pronounce it as it was a very long Asian name I'd never heard of and he said 'Sam'. I gave him a strange look and then he explained. Where he worked nobody could pronounce his name so he was called 'Sambo' shortened to Sam and was in no way was there any racial discrimination there, merely a nickname which in those days was the norm.

Many years later a Caribbean gentleman moved next to me, following the same procedure he wanted to be called Andy, no problem.

I don't misjudge people and get things wrong as you state but I do use my lifelong experience to get things right. If there is a subject I know little or nothing about I ask.

In fact, I have an interesting question and I'm sure many on here will have an appropriate answer.

What do you call morons who have no respect for the elderly, who have not got the brains to realise that they, more than likely, will be in that age group one day?



Perhaps nothing shows the institutional racism that is so prevalent in this country more than this post, I do not believe you believe you are racist but calling someone Sam because his workmates called him Sambo and because you couldn’t make the effort to learn how to pronounce one name of a man who probably learnt a whole new language? Come on.
That you think this is ok shows the generational divide very clearly, perhaps you are one of those who use “woke “ as an insult, most younger people see it as a compliment.
Posted by: smokey111, June 11, 2021, 7:06am; Reply: 89
Quoted from DB


You make a lot of unwise assumptions. I for one have respected all people and have made a point of asking them how they wished to called, as in the early 70's an Asian couple move in next to me. I introduced myself and he told me his name. I asked him how to pronounce it as it was a very long Asian name I'd never heard of and he said 'Sam'. I gave him a strange look and then he explained. Where he worked nobody could pronounce his name so he was called 'Sambo' shortened to Sam and was in no way was there any racial discrimination there, merely a nickname which in those days was the norm.

Many years later a Caribbean gentleman moved next to me, following the same procedure he wanted to be called Andy, no problem.

I don't misjudge people and get things wrong as you state but I do use my lifelong experience to get things right. If there is a subject I know little or nothing about I ask.

In fact, I have an interesting question and I'm sure many on here will have an appropriate answer.

What do you call morons who have no respect for the elderly, who have not got the brains to realise that they, more than likely, will be in that age group one day?



Was it yourself or the Asian gentleman who considered there to be no element of racism in his nickname of Sam, shortened from Sambo?
Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, June 11, 2021, 9:06am; Reply: 90
.






Quoted from codcheeky


Perhaps nothing shows the institutional racism that is so prevalent in this country more than this post, I do not believe you believe you are racist but calling someone Sam because his workmates called him Sambo and because you couldn’t make the effort to learn how to pronounce one name of a man who probably learnt a whole new language? Come on.
That you think this is ok shows the generational divide very clearly, perhaps you are one of those who use “woke “ as an insult, most younger people see it as a compliment.


...and nothing shows the refusal of people to accept peoples real-life experiences, in times that were very different, than your reply.

DB was honest enough, perhaps naive enough to give an account of how life was, and you denigrate him for it many years later because it does not fit in with today's values.

I gather from that story that "Sam" took the lead in how he was to be addressed. DB was not responsible for what his workmates called him and I am sure he would not have used the derogatory term himself.

We perfectly understand today's values; each generation does things differently and people move with the times. They always have done and always will as that is how we improve as a society. DB's story is of how it USED to be; some remnants remain but we are getting there. It is nobody's fault that they grew up in the '50s and 60's when things were very different.

When I was a young lad I never met a single person who was not white British. Imagine that. Not my fault - there wasn't any around to meet. It is important to appreciate that each generation is alive at different times with different values. One day the current younger woke generation will have the same problem. What they still consider normal behaviour will be considered ghastly by generations that follow them.
Posted by: Humbercod, June 11, 2021, 9:47am; Reply: 91
The sad thing is we had reached a point in this country where racism was as close to being eradicated as you can get. You could literally get through a month without hearing the R word. But now thanks to this BLM crap if you happen to be white you must be racist or at the very least an unconscious racist🤯
Posted by: DB, June 11, 2021, 10:41am; Reply: 92
Quoted from codcheeky


Perhaps nothing shows the institutional racism that is so prevalent in this country more than this post, I do not believe you believe you are racist but calling someone Sam because his workmates called him Sambo and because you couldn’t make the effort to learn how to pronounce one name of a man who probably learnt a whole new language? Come on.
That you think this is ok shows the generational divide very clearly, perhaps you are one of those who use “woke “ as an insult, most younger people see it as a compliment.


You obviously have a problem in life. Let me put it this way to you. If I met you and you asked me to call you ars ole then that is what I would call you. Not for any other reason that it would be at your request. Likewise, my old neighbour asked me to call him Sam. This was HIS PREFERENCE, not mine and is not institutional racism as it was his choice.

So what is your problem with that? Unless you wish to insult people, then you call the person the name he/she asks you to acknowledge them by, it is their choice and not anybody else's.

I wasn't aware that as my old neighbour and his wife, both born in England and learnt English at school, as both you and I did, is a new language. A supposition that you got totally wrong. How many Brits go abroad for holidays and cannot be bothered to learn a foreign tongue, is that institutional racism by holidaymakers?

The generation divide as you put it is because one generation respects peoples choices. Whereas the younger generation pokes their noses in and say you can't say that because of XYZ reasons and totally ignore the fact of the choice of names people asked to be called by is for them and accepted by them.

PS.  I don't use 'woke' mainly because I haven't the foggiest idea what it means and I don't care either; likewise, a snowflake comes from the sky. There are enough old words to keep me going without having to use new ones that are meaningless to me.

Posted by: DB, June 11, 2021, 10:47am; Reply: 93
Quoted from Grantley

That’s probably why the older generations continue to misjudge and get things wrong, when information is readily available for those willing to find it. Whereabouts do the over-60s get their info on how to counter racism then? Because it definitely isn’t from experience.


Perhaps you could advise Ska Face who wrote:-

'It’s a mystery how some of you thick fúckers have reached your 60s and 70s.'

The mystery surely is why do the young continue to ignore history and want to rewrite it!


Posted by: DB, June 11, 2021, 10:50am; Reply: 94
Quoted from smokey111


Was it yourself or the Asian gentleman who considered there to be no element of racism in his nickname of Sam, shortened from Sambo?


He obviously did as the request was his. He could have said any other name and it would have been ok with me. His choice, not mine.

Posted by: DB, June 11, 2021, 4:34pm; Reply: 95
.








...and nothing shows the refusal of people to accept peoples real-life experiences, in times that were very different, than your reply.

DB was honest enough, perhaps naive enough to give an account of how life was, and you denigrate him for it many years later because it does not fit in with today's values.

I gather from that story that "Sam" took the lead in how he was to be addressed. DB was not responsible for what his workmates called him and I am sure he would not have used the derogatory term himself.

We perfectly understand today's values; each generation does things differently and people move with the times. They always have done and always will as that is how we improve as a society. DB's story is of how it USED to be; some remnants remain but we are getting there. It is nobody's fault that they grew up in the '50s and 60's when things were very different.

When I was a young lad I never met a single person who was not white British. Imagine that. Not my fault - there wasn't any around to meet. It is important to appreciate that each generation is alive at different times with different values. One day the current younger woke generation will have the same problem. What they still consider normal behaviour will be considered ghastly by generations that follow them.


Never a truer word has been written about the cycle of life. A * for you.
Posted by: Grantley, June 11, 2021, 5:17pm; Reply: 96
Quoted from DB


Perhaps you could advise Ska Face who wrote:-

'It’s a mystery how some of you thick fúckers have reached your 60s and 70s.'

The mystery surely is why do the young continue to ignore history and want to rewrite it!



Seeing as you’ve replied twice to me, I’ve obviously struck a nerve. How is it ok for you to make assumptions about younger people yet the same cannot be said for yourself?

Your own postings tells us of the experience you’ve had dealing with other ethnicities. Sure, it’s not your fault that racism was more obvious in the past, but that doesn’t mean you brush it off now because it was alright back then. Can you not realise that calling someone a racial slur (even as a term of endearment) is wrong? Even if your neighbour did want to be called ‘Sam’, go and find anyone in today’s society who would to be associated with that stereotype. Times change - it is far easier to learn new information than before.
Posted by: DB, June 11, 2021, 5:24pm; Reply: 97
Quoted from Grantley

Seeing as you’ve replied twice to me, I’ve obviously struck a nerve. How is it ok for you to make assumptions about younger people yet the same cannot be said for yourself?

Your own postings tells us of the experience you’ve had dealing with other ethnicities. Sure, it’s not your fault that racism was more obvious in the past, but that doesn’t mean you brush it off now because it was alright back then. Can you not realise that calling someone a racial slur (even as a term of endearment) is wrong? Even if your neighbour did want to be called ‘Sam’, go and find anyone in today’s society who would to be associated with that stereotype. Times change - it is far easier to learn new information than before.


I agree times change and I try to move with them as fast as I can. I also believe what happened in the past, beit good or bad should be left where it is.

No nerves my friend, right of reply, freedom of speech, and varying opinions is was the site is all about. Not expecting somebody to keep quiet as in a dictatorship.

Posted by: Humbercod, June 11, 2021, 6:27pm; Reply: 98
Quoted from Grantley

Seeing as you’ve replied twice to me, I’ve obviously struck a nerve. How is it ok for you to make assumptions about younger people yet the same cannot be said for yourself?

Your own postings tells us of the experience you’ve had dealing with other ethnicities. Sure, it’s not your fault that racism was more obvious in the past, but that doesn’t mean you brush it off now because it was alright back then. Can you not realise that calling someone a racial slur (even as a term of endearment) is wrong? Even if your neighbour did want to be called ‘Sam’, go and find anyone in today’s society who would to be associated with that stereotype. Times change - it is far easier to learn new information than before.


DB....Hi there I’m DB welcome to the neighbourhood my friend.

Sam...Hello my name is Cheteshwar Samson but you can call me Sam.

DB.... Ok Sam it is then.

40 years later ........

Grantley.....Racist😡

Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, June 11, 2021, 6:47pm; Reply: 99
Quoted from Humbercod


DB....Hi there I’m DB welcome to the neighbourhood my friend.

Sam...Hello my name is Cheteshwar Samson but you can call me Sam.

DB.... Ok Sam it is then.

40 years later ........

Grantley.....Racist😡



Succinctly put. What exactly does Grantley expect DB to do, do you think? Does he have to apologise for being a good neighbour, or for living in a different time to Grantley?  ;D  
Posted by: TAGG, June 11, 2021, 7:05pm; Reply: 100
Quoted from DB


He obviously did as the request was his. He could have said any other name and it would have been ok with me. His choice, not mine.



DB don't keep trying to justify yourself to idiots.
Just tell the Jeremy's to intercourse off.
Posted by: Stadium, June 11, 2021, 7:16pm; Reply: 101
From elsewhere:

There is no rational argument against taking the knee. It harms no one, insults nothing and does not interfere with the rhythm of the game. The England players work in multicultural dressing-rooms. They understand better than dogwhistling Tory MPs and booing bigots that talent, application and intelligence are not linked in any way to ethnicity or colour. Football grounds should be places that force you to think about your attitude to race. The makeup of the teams should challenge preconceptions.

Unlike the Conservative MPs and their allies. Only a fool could believe the crank theories that they have dredged up to confuse the public. The same goes for the booing supporters, who claim they are protesting against Marxism. They are beyond parody but too many are treating them seriously.

The racists cannot any longer display NF flags and call players despicable names with impunity. They have had to become creative but their warped logic is beyond absurd.

England and the FA cannot back down. You either confront racism or tacitly condone it. The country should be proud of its team and ashamed of some of its elected representatives.



Nice summary.
Posted by: DB, June 11, 2021, 7:48pm; Reply: 102
Quoted from TAGG


DB don't keep trying to justify yourself to idiots.
Just tell the Jeremy's to intercourse off.


As in cfffkou or is this a new word for our younger generation?

Posted by: codcheeky, June 11, 2021, 7:53pm; Reply: 103
Quoted from Humbercod


DB....Hi there I’m DB welcome to the neighbourhood my friend.

Sam...Hello my name is Cheteshwar Samson but you can call me Sam.

DB.... Ok Sam it is then.

40 years later ........

Grantley.....Racist😡



You really think he was called Sambo because his unpronounceable name was Samson? Is this parody ?
Posted by: Azimuth, June 11, 2021, 8:28pm; Reply: 104
Some pretty angry debate here about Croatia's decision whilst completely missing the point that it is entirely their or any other team or individual players free choice to kneel or not, personally I dont care either way and respect the individuals choice and reasons for whatever they do.
We still live in a free society and it is entirely resonable for people to make their own choices and not feel the need to conform or bow to pressure either way.
Posted by: 1mickylyons, June 11, 2021, 8:28pm; Reply: 105
Quoted from Stadium
From elsewhere:

There is no rational argument against taking the knee. It harms no one, insults nothing and does not interfere with the rhythm of the game. The England players work in multicultural dressing-rooms. They understand better than dogwhistling Tory MPs and booing bigots that talent, application and intelligence are not linked in any way to ethnicity or colour. Football grounds should be places that force you to think about your attitude to race. The makeup of the teams should challenge preconceptions.

Unlike the Conservative MPs and their allies. Only a fool could believe the crank theories that they have dredged up to confuse the public. The same goes for the booing supporters, who claim they are protesting against Marxism. They are beyond parody but too many are treating them seriously.

The racists cannot any longer display NF flags and call players despicable names with impunity. They have had to become creative but their warped logic is beyond absurd.

England and the FA cannot back down. You either confront racism or tacitly condone it. The country should be proud of its team and ashamed of some of its elected representatives.



Nice summary.


Or of course you could just simply be a football fan who wants to watch football without this sideshow detracting from the game :-/
Posted by: GYinScuntland, June 11, 2021, 8:36pm; Reply: 106
Quoted from LH
Anyone supporting Croatia over England on here should take a knee. In the balderdash.

Depends if they've got them in the sweepstake. 😉
Posted by: Stadium, June 11, 2021, 10:23pm; Reply: 107
Quoted from 1mickylyons


Or of course you could just simply be a football fan who wants to watch football without this sideshow detracting from the game :-/


Correct as stated in the second line:

"It harms no one, insults nothing and does not interfere with the rhythm of the game"
Posted by: Knut Anders Fosters Voles, June 11, 2021, 10:41pm; Reply: 108
Quoted from Azimuth
Some pretty angry debate here about Croatia's decision whilst completely missing the point that it is entirely their or any other team or individual players free choice to kneel or not, personally I dont care either way and respect the individuals choice and reasons for whatever they do.
We still live in a free society and it is entirely resonable for people to make their own choices and not feel the need to conform or bow to pressure either way.


The problem I have with Croatia doing this is that they have a huge problem with racism in their country.

Recent bans for swastikas mown into the pitch and racist fan chanting. That’s before we even contemplate the fact they have committed genocidal acts in the past 30 years.
Posted by: mariner91, June 11, 2021, 10:57pm; Reply: 109
Quoted from Gaffer58
Out of interest how many on this board have taken the knee today, if not why not, it always seems to be the poor old (sorry, rich young) footballers/ sportspersons who are expected to show their solidarity with the oppressed etc.


I didn't take the knee today but it wouldn't quite have the same effect when there's only usually me and two others in the room I work in as opposed to being watched by millions of people on TV.
Posted by: GYinScuntland, June 12, 2021, 4:51am; Reply: 110
It's not hard to see how this pans out.
England kneel while Croatia don't, boos ring out and the commentators inform us the Croats are being rightfully derided by the fans.
Posted by: Rick12, June 12, 2021, 7:18am; Reply: 111
Wish some people would have more of a constructive argument with each other .Way to get through to most is with respect/love and open dialogue alongside discipline  . Ive seen this works from my job with youngsters who have had it hard in life.

From having lived in London most of my life you do get pockets of subtle even overt racism sometimes towards black people and other minorities but thats not to say black/Indian people are without flaws. Ive witnessed horrendous bullying / mockery from some sections of these groups as well as white people which has damaged victims enormously. Having said that Ive also met some very nice people from black/Indian/Somalian /English white/Irish travellers etc . Point is there is good and bad in every race/peoples.  Deep down we all need to continue working on ourselves as none is perfect and impose  discipline where others are affected negativity otherwise things will never change.  Bit like football is in many ways .Always room for improvement.
Posted by: lukeo, June 12, 2021, 7:55am; Reply: 112
I love you all
Posted by: Rick12, June 12, 2021, 8:00am; Reply: 113
Quoted from lukeo
I love you all
Good to hear Lukeo  ;)

Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, June 12, 2021, 11:58am; Reply: 114
Quoted from Stadium
From elsewhere:

There is no rational argument against taking the knee. It harms no one, insults nothing and does not interfere with the rhythm of the game. The England players work in multicultural dressing-rooms. They understand better than dogwhistling Tory MPs and booing bigots that talent, application and intelligence are not linked in any way to ethnicity or colour. Football grounds should be places that force you to think about your attitude to race. The makeup of the teams should challenge preconceptions.

Unlike the Conservative MPs and their allies. Only a fool could believe the crank theories that they have dredged up to confuse the public. The same goes for the booing supporters, who claim they are protesting against Marxism. They are beyond parody but too many are treating them seriously.

The racists cannot any longer display NF flags and call players despicable names with impunity. They have had to become creative but their warped logic is beyond absurd.

England and the FA cannot back down. You either confront racism or tacitly condone it. The country should be proud of its team and ashamed of some of its elected representatives.



Nice summary.


A much better summary can be found in an article by John Humphreys in today's Daily Mail.

I don't know how to post the article on here, so if anybody could that would be a help so we can compare and contrast.
Posted by: Grimsbynewhope, June 12, 2021, 1:24pm; Reply: 115
Anyone believing they can get an even and balanced view from the daily malice, sorry mail, is living in cloud cuckoo land.
Posted by: rancido, June 12, 2021, 1:32pm; Reply: 116


A much better summary can be found in an article by John Humphreys in today's Daily Mail.

I don't know how to post the article on here, so if anybody could that would be a help so we can compare and contrast.


You left yourself wide open there, LCL! The Daily Mail seems to be the most hated newspaper on this site but I read it and don't care what other people on here think. I agree, I read the article and agree with John Humphreys' views on the subject.
Posted by: Grimsbynewhope, June 12, 2021, 1:46pm; Reply: 117
Personally I tend to avoid any left or right wing newspapers. People who read either or take their news from social media generally have made their mind up before reading, they just want their views confirmed.
Posted by: Humbercod, June 12, 2021, 1:52pm; Reply: 118
Quoted from rancido


You left yourself wide open there, LCL! The Daily Mail seems to be the most hated newspaper on this site but I read it and don't care what other people on here think. I agree, I read the article and agree with John Humphreys' views on the subject.


I agree! I know Britain’s newspapers are in decline but it’s funny how the worst selling and by a huge margin (the Guardian) begging for donations is the fishy go to for many 🤷‍♂️
Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, June 12, 2021, 2:04pm; Reply: 119
Quoted from Grimsbynewhope
Anyone believing they can get an even and balanced view from the daily malice, sorry mail, is living in cloud cuckoo land.


I was expecting this kind of hackneyed response which is partly why I put the Daily Mail.

Where did you think Stadium got his oh so neutral take on the matter?! I was evening it up.
Posted by: RichMariner, June 12, 2021, 2:06pm; Reply: 120
While working in the PR team at a housing company about 10 years ago I experienced just how racist the Daily Mail are.

When given all the facts to a story they were writing, they dismissed pretty much all of them and made it a discussion about Muslims who had nothing to do with any of it.

I didn’t read it before anyway and I certainly haven’t read it since. I’ve had first-hand experience of what that newspaper is prepared to do to intimidate people and peddle a toxic mixture of racism and xenophobia.
Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, June 12, 2021, 2:14pm; Reply: 121
Quoted from rancido


You left yourself wide open there, LCL! The Daily Mail seems to be the most hated newspaper on this site but I read it and don't care what other people on here think. I agree, I read the article and agree with John Humphreys' views on the subject.


It was quite deliberate I can assure you!

Those like Stadium are so fond of giving us articles to support their view, which, obviously is usually from sources that support their view. I have no problem with that, but thought it best to even it up somewhat by quoting a piece from a very respected journalist in John Humphrys who has made life difficult for politicians of all persuasions over the years. Of course, we cannot count that view which represents the views of an enormous number of people because it was published in ...the Daily Mail. ;D
Posted by: Grimsbynewhope, June 12, 2021, 2:29pm; Reply: 122
You’ve just proved my point you don’t want the truth, you just want someone who confirms your views. Didn’t donald trump’s team call them alternate truths.
Posted by: aldi_01, June 12, 2021, 2:50pm; Reply: 123
The urine poor journalism and outright racism isn’t the only reason to not read the Daily Fail…
Posted by: DB, June 12, 2021, 2:59pm; Reply: 124
The problem today is that it is a very rare article in the press that tells the truth and only the truth. Similarly, tv news only shows you the bits they want you to see and not the full picture of events.

We have to decipher what is truth and what is manipulated news and what to believe.
Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, June 12, 2021, 3:08pm; Reply: 125
Quoted from Grimsbynewhope
You’ve just proved my point you don’t want the truth, you just want someone who confirms your views. Didn’t donald trump’s team call them alternate truths.


I think you are overthinking it. I simply put a contrary view to Stadiums, for a sense of balance.

Of course I agree with the piece by John Humphreys, just as Stadium and some on here agree with his version.

It is up to you to decide which one you agree with, but in a situation like this, as with so many things, it is subjective. There isn't a right or wrong answer which is why we and people all over the country are debating it.
Posted by: Grimsbynewhope, June 12, 2021, 3:10pm; Reply: 126
DB I totally agree, political correctness has also made a negative impact, but I still think it’s wrong to boo a team then expect them to give their all. Racism isn’t exclusively a white problem, the law should be even handed whatever your race or colour bit it isn’t and that inflames the issue
Posted by: GYinScuntland, June 12, 2021, 4:21pm; Reply: 127
Quoted from Grimsbynewhope
Personally I tend to avoid any left or right wing newspapers. People who read either or take their news from social media generally have made their mind up before reading, they just want their views confirmed.

Read everything, watch everything, trawl through social media.
Do it all with an open mind and then make your own mind up.

Posted by: Stadium, June 12, 2021, 4:50pm; Reply: 128


I was expecting this kind of hackneyed response which is partly why I put the Daily Mail.

Where did you think Stadium got his oh so neutral take on the matter?! I was evening it up.


Strange comment but not unexpected.
The full article was in The Independent.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/england-take-knee-politicans-parody-b1861723.html

Please feel free to point out items within it you disagree with.



Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, June 12, 2021, 5:10pm; Reply: 129
Quoted from Stadium


Strange comment but not unexpected.
The full article was in The Independent.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/england-take-knee-politicans-parody-b1861723.html

Please feel free to point out items within it you disagree with.





It is not a strange comment at all. You posted an article that you tagged a "fair summary." I suspected it was from a publication that supported your view. You now say it was gleaned from the laughably named Independent, which is fair enough as they support your viewpoint. If I was you I would do the same.

I don't agree with it so posted a marker to a different summary, one which I do agree with. Neither of us is right or wrong and we will obviously disagree with our respective pieces, but it is important both summaries are pointed out in the balance of fairness.
Posted by: Stadium, June 12, 2021, 7:41pm; Reply: 130


It is not a strange comment at all. You posted an article that you tagged a "fair summary." I suspected it was from a publication that supported your view. You now say it was gleaned from the laughably named Independent, which is fair enough as they support your viewpoint. If I was you I would do the same.

I don't agree with it so posted a marker to a different summary, one which I do agree with. Neither of us is right or wrong and we will obviously disagree with our respective pieces, but it is important both summaries are pointed out in the balance of fairness.


Ah I see.
Once again obsessed with a supposed "viewpoint" but cannot explain what's wrong with the article.
Brilliant.
Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, June 12, 2021, 8:58pm; Reply: 131
Quoted from Stadium


Ah I see.
Once again obsessed with a supposed "viewpoint" but cannot explain what's wrong with the article.
Brilliant.


That's easy! I don't agree with any of it. I do, however, agree with the John Humphrys article which explains in detail and far more eloquently than I could why people like me and him do not want footballers to take the knee; he also takes the time to explain that does not make us closet racists or uncaring individuals, simply that we would prefer racism tackled with real action rather than meaningless gestures.
Posted by: Stadium, June 12, 2021, 9:10pm; Reply: 132


That's easy! I don't agree with any of it. I do, however, agree with the John Humphrys article which explains in detail and far more eloquently than I could why people like me and him do not want footballers to take the knee; he also takes the time to explain that does not make us closet racists or uncaring individuals, simply that we would prefer racism tackled with real action rather than meaningless gestures.


Thanks for your honesty.

It harms no one, insults nothing and does not interfere with the rhythm of the game

Disagreeing with all above says it all really.


"why people like me and him do not want footballers to take the knee"

Nothing to do with you & entirely the footballers choice actually.



Posted by: Azimuth, June 12, 2021, 9:19pm; Reply: 133
Quoted from Stadium


Thanks for your honesty.

It harms no one, insults nothing and does not interfere with the rhythm of the game

Disagreeing with all above says it all really.


"why people like me and him do not want footballers to take the knee"

Nothing to do with you & entirely the footballers choice actually.





But if they choose not to conform or kneel they are branded racist in some peoples mind.
Posted by: Grimsbynewhope, June 12, 2021, 9:21pm; Reply: 134
If kneeling is such a meaningless gesture why does it upset you so much. The thing about racism is even the racists are to embarrassed to admit what they really believe, they hide behind any reason but the truth


Posted by: VinnyGTFC, June 12, 2021, 9:24pm; Reply: 135
Some of this thread shows how pathetic some of you are. If players want to take the knee or don't want to take the knee so what. Get out of your socially backward views and neolithic attitudes and let people do what they feel is right. 5 seconds of taking a knee so what. Grow up.
Posted by: LH, June 12, 2021, 9:31pm; Reply: 136
Tweet 1403804301453971456 will appear here...
Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, June 12, 2021, 9:45pm; Reply: 137
Quoted from Stadium


Thanks for your honesty.

It harms no one, insults nothing and does not interfere with the rhythm of the game

Disagreeing with all above says it all really.


"why people like me and him do not want footballers to take the knee"

Nothing to do with you & entirely the footballers choice actually.





From the John Humphrys piece - so why won't some people applaud the taking of the knee.   "I suspect that many resent being forced to prove they are decent human beings, that don't have a racist bone in their bodies. They resent having to answer the are you with us or against us challenge. And why should they?

Quite simply, because they believe the way they lead their lives answers that question for them. They want to be judged by their deeds and not on their words.

There is something else too. They  suspect that taking the knee is more about showing support for the organisation behind the gesture, than it is about showing respect for people with black skin.They do not want to support BLM, a movement with its roots in America, whose founders have admitted they want to destroy capitalism and defund the police.

They reject the idea that racism is the only legitimate prism to view the world; they don't like to see statues pulled down buildings renamed, heroes shamed and feeling like they should apologise for having a white skin.

They don't like being told - if you are with us you should applaud those who take the knee. If you're not with us, you are a racist. They are pretty good at spotting virtue signalling when they see it, and it makes them very uneasy.

So they don't applaud, and they don't boo; instead they just try to get on with their lives..."


I could not have put it better myself, and these are some of the reasons I am against taking a knee.

Your "harms no one, insults nobody" is your way of trying to paint anybody who doesn't support it in a bad light - just as Mr Humphrys said.
Posted by: mariner91, June 12, 2021, 9:52pm; Reply: 138
Pointless piece as nobody has said "if you are with us you should applaud". It's the booing that people take issue with. Classic Daily Mail tactic, to not give anything like the actual facts/counter argument in order to make a completely irrelevant comparison.
Posted by: Grimsbynewhope, June 12, 2021, 9:53pm; Reply: 139
I don’t have a problem with anyone who doesn’t believe in talking the knee, just don’t boo people who do.
Posted by: Stadium, June 12, 2021, 10:14pm; Reply: 140


From the John Humphrys piece - so why won't some people applaud the taking of the knee.   "I suspect that many resent being forced to prove they are decent human beings, that don't have a racist bone in their bodies. They resent having to answer the are you with us or against us challenge. And why should they?

Quite simply, because they believe the way they lead their lives answers that question for them. They want to be judged by their deeds and not on their words.

There is something else too. They  suspect that taking the knee is more about showing support for the organisation behind the gesture, than it is about showing respect for people with black skin.They do not want to support BLM, a movement with its roots in America, whose founders have admitted they want to destroy capitalism and defund the police.

They reject the idea that racism is the only legitimate prism to view the world; they don't like to see statues pulled down buildings renamed, heroes shamed and feeling like they should apologise for having a white skin.

They don't like being told - if you are with us you should applaud those who take the knee. If you're not with us, you are a racist. They are pretty good at spotting virtue signalling when they see it, and it makes them very uneasy.

So they don't applaud, and they don't boo; instead they just try to get on with their lives..."


I could not have put it better myself, and these are some of the reasons I am against taking a knee.

Your "harms no one, insults nobody" is your way of trying to paint anybody who doesn't support it in a bad light - just as Mr Humphrys said.


???
"if you are with us you should applaud"

Totally incorrect,nobody even stated that.

Your "harms no one, insults nobody" is your way of trying to paint anybody who doesn't support it in a bad light


Not at all.
A conclusion you have drawn or the article has.


Congratulations though on finding the article you seemed to have a problem with locating before....

But,but but....
Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, June 12, 2021, 10:21pm; Reply: 141
Quoted from Stadium


???
"if you are with us you should applaud"
Totally incorrect,nobody even stated that.
Congratulations though on finding the article you seemed to have a problem with locating before....
But,but but....


I did not have a problem locating it, I said I did not know how to post it on here. I still don't so have had to type it myself. The article is a lot longer if you care to read it.

I have explained my position so we will leave it at that.
Posted by: Stadium, June 12, 2021, 10:24pm; Reply: 142


I did not have a problem locating it, I said I did not know how to post it on here. I still don't so have had to type it myself. The article is a lot longer if you care to read it.

I have explained my position so we will leave it at that.


Fair comment.
Posted by: KingstonMariner, June 13, 2021, 12:40am; Reply: 143
Quoted from Marinerdan
Got to say I love Croatia, its a beautiful country.

There's definitely a racist element amongst their football fans, the national team was playing behind closed doors last time we where there. However, we didn't experience any racism, even outside of the main tourist areas.


Are you white by any chance?
Posted by: Black_and_White_Bear, June 13, 2021, 9:03am; Reply: 144
Ok so, seems like the majority of posters on here are telling people not to boo surely they have a right to boo if they so wish, as far as I know it's not illegal, correct me if I'm wrong,  so they have the right to boo those who take the knee in the same way those who take the knee have that same right to take the knee!  Just saying......................
Posted by: RichMariner, June 13, 2021, 9:16am; Reply: 145
Yes they have a right to boo. But they need to know it’s deeply insulting to those who choose to take a knee and therefore, by extension, even more insulting to those who just want to be treated equally.

To be honest, I think all of us are in agreement that the booing is bad. It’s fine to disagree and have problems with the gesture of taking the knee, but has anyone here on this thread said explicitly that they would boo?

Trying to find some common ground here.
Posted by: ginnywings, June 13, 2021, 10:19am; Reply: 146
Ok so, seems like the majority of posters on here are telling people not to boo surely they have a right to boo if they so wish, as far as I know it's not illegal, correct me if I'm wrong,  so they have the right to boo those who take the knee in the same way those who take the knee have that same right to take the knee!  Just saying......................


The same argument is trotted out by people who boo Town players when they have a bad game. "I've paid my money, so I have a right to boo" they say.

In either instance, it's not very constructive is it?

Posted by: KingstonMariner, June 13, 2021, 10:19am; Reply: 147
Ok so, seems like the majority of posters on here are telling people not to boo surely they have a right to boo if they so wish, as far as I know it's not illegal, correct me if I'm wrong,  so they have the right to boo those who take the knee in the same way those who take the knee have that same right to take the knee!  Just saying......................


Of course you e got the right to boo. No one is saying that you haven’t.

Of course, by booing you’d be showing that your a male private.
Posted by: AndyGTFC, June 13, 2021, 10:33am; Reply: 148
It’s incredibly ironic that the same people who are crying over this are usually the same types to call everyone snowflakes. Looks like that’s right.

But the drama over this is ridiculous.
Posted by: Roast Em Bobby, June 13, 2021, 11:18am; Reply: 149


From the John Humphrys piece - so why won't some people applaud the taking of the knee.   "I suspect that many resent being forced to prove they are decent human beings, that don't have a racist bone in their bodies. They resent having to answer the are you with us or against us challenge. And why should they?

Quite simply, because they believe the way they lead their lives answers that question for them. They want to be judged by their deeds and not on their words.

There is something else too. They  suspect that taking the knee is more about showing support for the organisation behind the gesture, than it is about showing respect for people with black skin.They do not want to support BLM, a movement with its roots in America, whose founders have admitted they want to destroy capitalism and defund the police.

They reject the idea that racism is the only legitimate prism to view the world; they don't like to see statues pulled down buildings renamed, heroes shamed and feeling like they should apologise for having a white skin.

They don't like being told - if you are with us you should applaud those who take the knee. If you're not with us, you are a racist. They are pretty good at spotting virtue signalling when they see it, and it makes them very uneasy.

So they don't applaud, and they don't boo; instead they just try to get on with their lives..."


I could not have put it better myself, and these are some of the reasons I am against taking a knee.

Your "harms no one, insults nobody" is your way of trying to paint anybody who doesn't support it in a bad light - just as Mr Humphrys said.


Did you stand on you’re doorstep applauding the NHS? Where you against players applauding the NHS before games? Just asking since you are so against virtue signalling?

Posted by: Humbercod, June 13, 2021, 11:45am; Reply: 150
Quoted from RichMariner
Yes they have a right to boo. But they need to know it’s deeply insulting to those who choose to take a knee and therefore, by extension, even more insulting to those who just want to be treated equally.

To be honest, I think all of us are in agreement that the booing is bad. It’s fine to disagree and have problems with the gesture of taking the knee, but has anyone here on this thread said explicitly that they would boo?

Trying to find some common ground here.


Do you not think that people find the kneeling that represents
the violent extremist BLM movement deeply insulting?
Stand up to racism and the booing stops that simple.
Posted by: Humbercod, June 13, 2021, 11:46am; Reply: 151
Quoted from Roast Em Bobby


Did you stand on you’re doorstep applauding the NHS? Where you against players applauding the NHS before games? Just asking since you are so against virtue signalling?



6th form analogy😩
Posted by: Grimsbynewhope, June 13, 2021, 12:12pm; Reply: 152
Going by Humbercod’s logic.Do you not think that people find the booing that represents
the violent extremist EDL movement deeply insulting?
Posted by: Humbercod, June 13, 2021, 12:35pm; Reply: 153
Quoted from Grimsbynewhope
Going by Humbercod’s logic.Do you not think that people find the booing that represents
the violent extremist EDL movement deeply insulting?


6th form logic 🤯
Posted by: Grimsbynewhope, June 13, 2021, 12:56pm; Reply: 154
Twisted logic to support a twisted view.
Posted by: Black_and_White_Bear, June 13, 2021, 1:12pm; Reply: 155
Quoted from KingstonMariner


Of course you e got the right to boo. No one is saying that you haven’t.

Of course, by booing you’d be showing that your a male private.


You're assuming a lot!  I have never booed anyone in my long life, and never will.  I think it's childish and shows how immature a lot of people are.  I was just making the point that people who are telling others not to boo have to understand that should people want to boo, they have an absolute right, as do the players who take the knee.  I don't like it, but I would defend their right to do it.

Posted by: Mayaman, June 13, 2021, 1:30pm; Reply: 156


A much better summary can be found in an article by John Humphreys in today's Daily Mail.

I don't know how to post the article on here, so if anybody could that would be a help so we can compare and contrast.


You don't have much conviction if you don't wanna work it out whichever side of the fence you're on. Articles from the Daily Mail can only be posted while kneeling.

Posted by: Mayaman, June 13, 2021, 1:36pm; Reply: 157


You're assuming a lot!  I have never booed anyone in my long life, and never will.  I think it's childish and shows how immature a lot of people are.  I was just making the point that people who are telling others not to boo have to understand that should people want to boo, they have an absolute right, as do the players who take the knee.  I don't like it, but I would defend their right to do it.



Never booed anyone?  Didn't you ever go to Panto?  
Posted by: Black_and_White_Bear, June 13, 2021, 3:59pm; Reply: 158
Panto!  Couldn't afford that back in my day!
Posted by: DB, June 13, 2021, 4:39pm; Reply: 159
The game is over and hopefully this thread.
Posted by: Stadium, June 13, 2021, 4:52pm; Reply: 160
Quoted from DB
The game is over and hopefully this thread.


Oh I'm sure somebody will pop up with another one before the Eng vs Scot game.
Posted by: KingstonMariner, June 18, 2021, 12:20pm; Reply: 161
According to some, Cod Almighty would do well flogging these to millionaire footballers

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264721398510
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