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Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

Clean fresh start, to go with the new board.

The question is, are we aiming to go back up straight away, or consolidate for a season and then go for it. The one good side of being relegated early Is that it gives PH time to speak current/potential signings

The problem is that unless we splash the cash anybody half decent in L2 will not want to drop to the NL and the current NL season will be late finishing. Also, any half-decent player in the NL whose club missed out on promotion may think why change.

Hurst will have a lot of talking to do to get the right players in and hopefully a promotion budget. A new stadium will not appear overnight, but training facilities should come sooner rather than later.

I’d only keep Matete, Menayese & Hendrie if I could, but there’re no way Matete will stay, he’s good for at least league one.

The rest? All can go, including sadly Macca, great servant to the club but far better keepers out there, at the very least use him as a back up. New forward line, LJL and Hanson just won’t get enough goals we need, we need the best possible players in all positions,

Quoted from forza ivano

Hurst has relied on about 15-20 players over the last couple of months
i'd guess Macca, the Shop, Clifton & Habergham in the team (& Coke possibly)
Spokes, Khouri and Jackson in the squad

and that's about it

(am presuming Hewitt, Eastwood, Matete, Menayese & Hendrie will remain in the FL)

I'd only try and keep or sign..

Hewitt
Hendrie
Menayese
Matete
Pollock
Clifton
Coke
Williams

I'd dispense with Hurst's services too..

Pay who needs paying off. The rest are just not good enough to take us forward..

You’d keep williams!? Christ alive. Pay him off.

Quoted from Hagrid

You’d keep williams!? Christ alive. Pay him off.

Opinons mate. I think he's got talent, more than enough for the Conference, as shown in his last two appearances for us and earlier on in the season..

Quoted from Bigdog

I'd only try and keep or sign..

Hewitt
Hendrie
Menayese
Matete
Clifton
Coke
Williams

I'd dispense with Hurst's services too..

Pay who needs paying off. The rest are just not good enough to take us forward..

i don't think you will get your wish re hurst as he's the consortium's choice.

what i will say is that he hasn't got too much leeway. He's had enough time to assess his present charges. He has now got much more time ,far more than any National League boss, to get players in and to get a proper pre season organised
He also has the benefit of the full parachute payment, which should leave us in a better financial position than the vast majority of the division

Quoted from forza ivano

i don't think you will get your wish re hurst as he's the consortium's choice.

what i will say is that he hasn't got too much leeway. He's had enough time to assess his present charges. He has now got much more time ,far more than any National League boss, to get players in and to get a proper pre season organised
He also has the benefit of the full parachute payment, which should leave us in a better financial position than the vast majority of the division

So what your saying is that Hurst will have a decent shot at promotion the first time and if it doesn't happen then we'll be like the other ex-league clubs.

Quoted from forza ivano

i don't think you will get your wish re hurst as he's the consortium's choice.

what i will say is that he hasn't got too much leeway. He's had enough time to assess his present charges. He has now got much more time ,far more than any National League boss, to get players in and to get a proper pre season organised
He also has the benefit of the full parachute payment, which should leave us in a better financial position than the vast majority of the division

Yep, we need to hit the ground running, fully prepared, with a squad in place, pre season games aplenty and with a clear starting 11 ready for match day one.

Quoted from forza ivano

i don't think you will get your wish re hurst as he's the consortium's choice.

what i will say is that he hasn't got too much leeway. He's had enough time to assess his present charges. He has now got much more time ,far more than any National League boss, to get players in and to get a proper pre season organised
He also has the benefit of the full parachute payment, which should leave us in a better financial position than the vast majority of the division

Agree. He will be in charge. Had an open mind when he returned. My assessment is that he's been very disappointing. Didn't like him slagging off the existing squad in December. Cost us any new manager bounce. Didn't address lack of pace up front in the window and took him months to address lack of pace in our back line. Left us with only one option and that was to play anti-football to get us out of trouble. No flexibility at all yet he signed eleven players. Eleven players and only three of them have been any good, Matete, Menayese and Coke.

Hurst will seem the safe option, but I fear safe will never get us back in the EFL..

I'd like to see what Khouri and Jackson can do with some regular game time

Williams desperately needs paying off, along with plenty of others. Gibson might be retained and loaned out only because his 3 year (Christ!) Contract might mean its cheaper to deal with him that way.

Rose has been dreadful and needs paying off.

I am hoping waterfall activates the clause that means if we are relegated he doesn't have to stay but it depends on someone being silly enough to sign him who isn't ian Holloway.

Macca will be way too expensive to pay off I would think as its his testimonial season I believe, so he will be here. He will probably be the best paid goalkeeper in non league so I suspect we may be unable to justify signing another serious keeper for our level as we would then be spending more on goalies wages than most conference teams do on strikers wages! Unless he can get Eastwood cheap on loan maybe?

Jackson isn't rated by Hurst, he's cheap but then he will be cheap to pay off too so that's what I expect to happen. Just maybe conference would have been more his level but definitely a risk, and its our one time shot at it with the parachute payments so probably worth getting rid.

He will obviously retain the shop, hopefully as backup or for when we are leading rather than first choice.

Habergham not good enough for a title tilt for me, but Hurst seems to quite like him, not sure if he will try and resign him.

Coke has played fairly well but we need someone who contributes more going forward in my opinion, but as a squad player yes and he will be cheap so he's quite likely to be retained.

Clifton has done enough to be retained as a squad player I would have thought, his attitude is first rate and his versatility is exceptional as he provides backup in numerous areas.

Hendrie matete manayse will leave, probably Hewitt too.

Scannell will surely be paid off. Also morais obviously.

Quoted from Harry Haddock

I'd like to see what Khouri and Jackson can do with some regular game time

Underestimate the Conference at your peril. We only finished fourth last time, even with Bogle, Amond, Nsiala, Nolan, Disley and Tait in our side. Khouri will be loaned out to NLN and Jackson will not be retained..

Quoted from Bigdog

Agree. He will be in charge. Had an open mind when he returned. My assessment is that he's been very disappointing. Didn't like him slagging off the existing squad in December. Cost us any new manager bounce. Didn't address lack of pace up front in the window and took him months to address lack of pace in our back line. Left us with only one option and that was to play anti-football to get us out of trouble. No flexibility at all yet he signed eleven players. Eleven players and only three of them have been any good, Matete, Menayese and Coke.

Hurst will seem the safe option, but I fear safe will never get us back in the EFL..

not like you to be factually incorrect, but he was playing Hewitt and Menayese by the beginning of February, so weeks rather than months.
Think you are being a bit unfair on Eastwood and the Shop who have also improved the squad. He was also unlucky with several of his signings getting injured, before we could tell if they were any good.
imho he has improved us as a team - we look fitter, more together as a team, more organised, more defensively solid and a bit more of a threat up front.
One thing i think we can agree on - we will probabaly know the answer to our discussion within the next 6 - 9 months, because as Ginny says, he will definitely need to hit the ground running

Quoted from ginnywings

Yep, we need to hit the ground running, fully prepared, with a squad in place, pre season games aplenty and with a clear starting 11 ready for match day one.

i posed this question a week or so ago, but don't think i got any response:
my recollection is that
a) we always got off to a poor start and were playing catch up by October, so wrecking any chance of a real title push
and b) we never had a first XI that was settled by early pre season. We were always signing a couple of players very late on (probably due to Fenty's 'competitive' budget) which didn't help us get off to a really good start

is this correct or just my version of an Urban Myth?

Quoted from forza ivano

not like you to be factually incorrect, but he was playing Hewitt and Menayese by the beginning of February, so weeks rather than months.
Think you are being a bit unfair on Eastwood and the Shop who have also improved the squad. He was also unlucky with several of his signings getting injured, before we could tell if they were any good.
imho he has improved us as a team - we look fitter, more together as a team, more organised, more defensively solid and a bit more of a threat up front.
One thing i think we can agree on - we will probabaly know the answer to our discussion within the next 6 - 9 months, because as Ginny says, he will definitely need to hit the ground running

March 6th, FGR at home Waterfall finally got dropped, 12 games and over two months into Hurst's reign.. seemed like longer..

Forgot about Eastwood tbh, four good signings out of eleven..

Three wins in twenty three or 18 points out of a possible 69 doesn't look great for any manager.. and the football on offer has been abysmal..

I hope my gut instinct is wrong, but I think we will all be underwhelmed by Xmas.

The top half of the National League is probably on par or better than the bottom half of League 2 so most of the current crop need to be gone. Some of those decisions will be easy, some of them tough.

Clifton and mckeown bin the rest

Macca

Hewitt
Meneyese

Coke
Clifton

The shop

Quoted from Bigdog

Underestimate the Conference at your peril. We only finished fourth last time, even with Bogle, Amond, Nsiala, Nolan, Disley and Tait in our side. Khouri will be loaned out to NLN and Jackson will not be retained..

Totally agree Bigdog....
It's going to be one hell of a task to get back into the football league. The current squad is way short of skill compared to the squad you mentioned.
We need major changes in personal.
UTM

keep Macca, Good Keeper despite his flaws in regards crossing etc
Batersby Cheap

Hewitt ( if he wants too)
Hendrie ( If he wants too)

Harry Clifton
Coke
Spokes ( back up)

LJL
Hanson ( if we get him on a lower wage, which wont happen)

SO paying off a ton of players, williams, scannell, rose, gibson, jackson, its gonna be a huge task

it leaves us so so threadbare, building a whole new squad

I think we must go for it the first season and use the parachute payment....
If we try to spread the parachute payments over the next few seasons we will end up in the national league for a long time... Let's start anew and learn how to be brave...!! UTM...

No way we get out at first time of asking , going to be a full re-build starting from scratch wont be easy if we make play offs nxt yr i'll class that as steady progress , think wrexham stockport hartlepool torquay etc will only get stronger obviously one of them could go up alongside sutton , but what us fans need to be aware of is how much budget will be left if we have to pay x amount of players contracts up ?

A lot of talk of paying off players, with mentions for Williams, Rose, Jackson, Gibson and Scannell. People really need to get their head around the finances of that and keep it real. 3 of those will be on at the very least 70 grand a year, so your probably looking at around 300k plus to pay them off with the other 2 as well. That’s a massive sum just to get rid of players. Maybe transfer listing them, trying to get someone to take on their contracts and keeping them with the squad until that happens is the only financially viable thing to do.

Also, I’m not sure why people are mentioning Matete like we have a single chance of signing him. He’s not our player, there’s no way Fleetwood would let him come back here to drop down a league when he’s performed quite well, and also why on earth would he?

Some serious reality checks needed before people start getting frustrated with the new regime before we’ve even kicked a ball.

forgot to mention it's going to be a big few months for Wright and Pollock. Wright needs to really get serious with injury prevention work, whilst Pollock needs to have a look at what hewitt & Menayese have been doing and start working to improve.
I can't see Pollock going in the summer, given his op and that he hasn't been playing for the last 3 months, so that then begs the question do we need both him & Waterfall?

I think the phrase we will hear from the club over the summer is "it won't happen overnight".

Unless there is a shedload of cash thrown at the playing side, we will have to retain some of the present squad and replace as time goes on. Two of the big earners, Green and Hanson are at the end of their contracts, so that should free up a good chunk. Almost the entire defence apart from Waterfall have their contracts ending too, but it's there where we could do with keeping some of them. Menayese, Hewitt and Hendrie are all worth keeping for me.

Hopefully, the players who are still under contract but are not required will be told they are not in the clubs plans and are free to look elsewhere. Some of them will get new clubs and leave without cost to us.

We may have to pay off some, but I doubt it would be the full amount of their contract, especially if they can get another club and a bit of cash in their pockets.

I think that process will have already started and I expect some more to go before the end of the season.

Quoted from jimgtfc

A lot of talk of paying off players, with mentions for Williams, Rose, Jackson, Gibson and Scannell. People really need to get their head around the finances of that and keep it real. 3 of those will be on at the very least 70 grand a year, so your probably looking at around 300k plus to pay them off with the other 2 as well. That’s a massive sum just to get rid of players. Maybe transfer listing them, trying to get someone to take on their contracts and keeping them with the squad until that happens is the only financially viable thing to do.

Also, I’m not sure why people are mentioning Matete like we have a single chance of signing him. He’s not our player, there’s no way Fleetwood would let him come back here to drop down a league when he’s performed quite well, and also why on earth would he?

Some serious reality checks needed before people start getting frustrated with the new regime before we’ve even kicked a ball.

First of all, using the term paying off doesn't literally mean paying off the rest of the player's contract. Everyone knows it means telling him he's not in the club's plans and allowing him to get fixed up somewhere else. These players will not ruin their careers by sitting on the wages that GTFC are paying them.

Secondly, the players people have picked are a wish list with provisos and like myself have been chosen on ability and performances only, not the likelihood of being here.

Thirdly, if we keep all of the players that have ongoing contracts, there's not a chance that Hurst could build a promotion winning squad with what's left of the budget.

The reality will be somewhere between. I'd expect Hurst to stay along with LJL, Waterfall and a few others with Scannell, Williams, Morais and a couple more moving on.

Already had the reality check thanks, and the predicament we're in thanks to Holloway and Fenty sanctioning these contracts, and if Hurst and the new board don't get radical with trimming the squad, we're going to struggle to challenge for promotion next season..

Quoted from Hagrid

keep Macca, Good Keeper despite his flaws in regards crossing etc
Batersby Cheap

Hewitt ( if he wants too)
Hendrie ( If he wants too)

Harry Clifton
Coke
Spokes ( back up)

LJL
Hanson ( if we get him on a lower wage, which wont happen)

SO paying off a ton of players, williams, scannell, rose, gibson, jackson, its gonna be a huge task

it leaves us so so threadbare, building a whole new squad

Another season of lumping it to these two non-scoring forwards will have us closer to the NLN than the EFL..

Quoted from Bigdog

First of all, using the term paying off doesn't literally mean paying off the rest of the player's contract. Everyone knows it means telling him he's not in the club's plans and allowing him to get fixed up somewhere else. These players will not ruin their careers by sitting on the wages that GTFC are paying them.

Secondly, the players people have picked are a wish list with provisos and like myself have been chosen on ability and performances only, not the likelihood of being here.

Thirdly, if we keep all of the players that have ongoing contracts, there's not a chance that Hurst could build a promotion winning squad with what's left of the budget.

The reality will be somewhere between. I'd expect Hurst to stay along with LJL, Waterfall and a few others with Scannell, Williams, Morais and a couple more moving on.

Already had the reality check thanks, and the predicament we're in thanks to Holloway and Fenty sanctioning these contracts, and if Hurst and the new board don't get radical with trimming the squad, we're going to struggle to challenge for promotion next season..

Yeah that’s pretty much what I was getting at, I think there will be a mixture of one or two leaving on mutual terms and maybe a few others finding new clubs. But some are saying (and not just on this board) that we should pay off 5 or 6 players and I just don’t think people can get their head around the money side of that. There’s a huge difference between “paying off” and telling someone they’re not required and to find a new club. I completely agree that we need a huge clear out and Hurst has one hell of a headache sorting it.

Some players have already been told they are not part of the future plans and are looking for new clubs

I think who we would like to keep and who we will keep will be two completely different lists.

Who I think we will keep:
Macca
Habergham
Pollock
Coke
Clifton
Wright
John Lewis

And then obviously the first year pros.

Quoted from Bigdog

Agree. He will be in charge. Had an open mind when he returned. My assessment is that he's been very disappointing. Didn't like him slagging off the existing squad in December. Cost us any new manager bounce.

Some logic that. A load of dogshít players would’ve instantly become good if the new manager had said so? Holloway had spent the first half of the season saying how great they all were, and it was clear they were all dog.

Quoted from itsnotcoditshaddock

I think who we would like to keep and who we will keep will be two completely different lists.

Who I think we will keep:
Macca
Habergham
Pollock
Coke
Clifton
Wright
John Lewis

And then obviously the first year pros.

I think that's a reasonable assessment, although I'd have thought Waterfall will be on that list. I'd expect the loanees, Hewitt and Hendrie to all be EFL players next season. It's not a great starting point if we're looking at getting promoted. Imho I think we need to freshen up the keeper's position, Habergham isn't the player he was, Pollock is still developing and has an obvious flaw in his game, Waterfall can only be a back up, Wright is injury prone and LJL is very limited and way past his best and fitness peak. That leaves Coke and Clifton who I'd be comfortable with in and around the starting eleven. Not a confidence giving starting point. Here's hoping Hurst has the persuasive powers and funds to convince three or four of our better performers this season to either stay or sign from Fleetwood and Mansfield. Interesting few weeks seeing how the squad is trimmed and shapes up..

Quoted from ska face

Some logic that. A load of dogshít players would’ve instantly become good if the new manager had said so? Holloway had spent the first half of the season saying how great they all were, and it was clear they were all dog.

The players weren't up to standard true, but that same bunch of players had won at Cheltenham, Orient and Crawley and had just beaten Scunthorpe. After Hurst said that, we picked up two points in the next nine games and slid into the relegation places. I think it's logical to think that Hurst could have some ability in boosting the existing players' confidence to pick up more than two points. How often have we seen the new manager bounce elsewhere, better results with the same players? The disturbing fact is that Hurst has done even worse than Holloway this season on a points per game basis, even after signing eleven new players. I'm not saying Hurst is a poorer manager than Holloway, but his mistakes and record should not be brushed under the carpet and be ignored. Slagging off the squad he inherited publicly was a big mistake imho and seems logical enough when comparing results before he arrived to the ones directly after..

I think we need to take drastic action. Hurst needs to be allowed to build a 24 man squad (including first year pros) of his choosing. If that means a few players have to rot in the reserves, so be it.

Hopefully most of them can convince some other mug to take on their contract.

Since Hurst has been in charge (21 games), Spokes has featured in 10 games, only starting 3
I Believe he signed a 1 year deal, when eventually announced, so would surprise me if he's offered a deal.

Quoted from Bigdog

The players weren't up to standard true, but that same bunch of players had won at Cheltenham, Orient and Crawley and had just beaten Scunthorpe. After Hurst said that, we picked up two points in the next nine games and slid into the relegation places. I think it's logical to think that Hurst could have some ability in boosting the existing players' confidence to pick up more than two points. How often have we seen the new manager bounce elsewhere, better results with the same players? The disturbing fact is that Hurst has done even worse than Holloway this season on a points per game basis, even after signing eleven new players. I'm not saying Hurst is a poorer manager than Holloway, but his mistakes and record should not be brushed under the carpet and be ignored. Slagging off the squad he inherited publicly was a big mistake imho and seems logical enough when comparing results before he arrived to the ones directly after..

Windsor and Edwards, the only two players with any quality early in the season (and central to the wins at Orient and Cheltenham) had left the club before Hurst had taken his first game. That group of players had lost 7 of the 11 previous games, including losses against Bradford (who were struggling), Colchester, Southend, Morecambe and getting twátted off Tranmere (5 nil) and Exeter (4-1 at home). You also had Tilley and Preston leave shortly after following injury, and most of the other loanees recalled - this is after Day publicly stated the Jan transfer policy is “1 out, 1 in”. What was left was a load of crocks and players who weren’t up to scratch, players signed from Taunton, Aberystwyth, Folkestone and Halesowen. Like I said - Holloway had spent the first half of the season telling us what world beaters we had, and for all the confidence that gave us, we were still hovering just above the trap door. Think your stats need looking at too as we’ve never done 2 points in 9 games under Hurst.

Quoted from ska face

Windsor and Edwards, the only two players with any quality early in the season (and central to the wins at Orient and Cheltenham) had left the club before Hurst had taken his first game. That group of players had lost 7 of the 11 previous games, including losses against Bradford (who were struggling), Colchester, Southend, Morecambe and getting twátted off Tranmere (5 nil) and Exeter (4-1 at home). You also had Tilley and Preston leave shortly after following injury, and most of the other loanees recalled - this is after Day publicly stated the Jan transfer policy is “1 out, 1 in”. What was left was a load of crocks and players who weren’t up to scratch, players signed from Taunton, Aberystwyth, Folkestone and Halesowen. Like I said - Holloway had spent the first half of the season telling us what world beaters we had, and for all the confidence that gave us, we were still hovering just above the trap door. Think your stats need looking at too as we’ve never done 2 points in 9 games under Hurst.

My bad. It was two points in his first eight games..

Fact is.. I was open-minded when Hurst came back, even trusted him to not get us relegated from the position we were in with 27 games to go and a transfer window. After the past 23 games, I've seen very little so far to be in the "In Hurst We Trust" camp to get us out of the Conference. I'm open-minded enough to change my mind again after his recruitment in the transfer window and see where we are after the first dozen games or so..

Quoted from DB

Depends on his budget. For me Macca, Hab, Clifton, Coke, LJL, Jackson.Kouri, and Adlard. If they can be persuaded Hendrie, Hewitt, Matete, and Menayese. We also need 2/3 strikers, LJL holds the ball week but we do need out and out strikers as the missed chances have shown.

You mean basically the same squad that is getting us relegated?

Quoted from Yoda

Clifton and mckeown bin the rest

To be honest I don't really think Clifton has come on like some thought he might. In my opinion he is probably not good enough for a hopefully promotion winning team.

Said it previously but it’d be a massive mistake to completely gut the entire squad IMO. A bit of continuity for a squad who have done fairly okay in the past few months would leave us on good grounds.

I’m of the opinion that the big reason so many teams come down here and struggle is they have to start from absolute scratch and it takes years to build up any continuity.

Quoted from ska face

Windsor and Edwards, the only two players with any quality early in the season (and central to the wins at Orient and Cheltenham) had left the club before Hurst had taken his first game. That group of players had lost 7 of the 11 previous games, including losses against Bradford (who were struggling), Colchester, Southend, Morecambe and getting twátted off Tranmere (5 nil) and Exeter (4-1 at home). You also had Tilley and Preston leave shortly after following injury, and most of the other loanees recalled - this is after Day publicly stated the Jan transfer policy is “1 out, 1 in”. What was left was a load of crocks and players who weren’t up to scratch, players signed from Taunton, Aberystwyth, Folkestone and Halesowen. Like I said - Holloway had spent the first half of the season telling us what world beaters we had, and for all the confidence that gave us, we were still hovering just above the trap door. Think your stats need looking at too as we’ve never done 2 points in 9 games under Hurst.

If I remember correctly most on here didn't rate the players you mentioned apart from Edwards but even then some didn't rate him but I'm sure there were many posts suggesting some were glad to see the back of the other 3.

Williams is a frustrating one. If Hurst could get a tune out of him he's got he ability & pedigree to be the best player in the division, but i wonder if the injuries have 'done for him' as much psychologically as physically

i'd be interested to know which players have already been told to look for pastures new

Quoted from pontoonlew

Said it previously but it’d be a massive mistake to completely gut the entire squad IMO. A bit of continuity for a squad who have done fairly okay in the past few months would leave us on good grounds.

I’m of the opinion that the big reason so many teams come down here and struggle is they have to start from absolute scratch and it takes years to build up any continuity.

Sorry Lew but we need pratically a whole new squad, the current shower have shown that they struggle to score goals and we need at least two decent forwards and a midfield that can create chances.

As for the defence, it wouldn't surprise me if those that have been playing better recently would prefer to stay in the EFL.

Quoted from jimgtfc

Yeah that’s pretty much what I was getting at, I think there will be a mixture of one or two leaving on mutual terms and maybe a few others finding new clubs. But some are saying (and not just on this board) that we should pay off 5 or 6 players and I just don’t think people can get their head around the money side of that. There’s a huge difference between “paying off” and telling someone they’re not required and to find a new club. I completely agree that we need a huge clear out and Hurst has one hell of a headache sorting it.

When I used the term pay off I mean give an offer to a player to leave, not pay his entire contract! I assume most other s do too.

If player A is offered 50% of his contract he only has to find a team willing to pay him 51% of his contract and he has an immediate pay rise.

Yes there is a cost and we probably aren't going to be able to get rid of all who we would like to but equally, if you don't do this sort of thing your left with a shite squad of players your manager won't pick anyway.

Some paying off is going to have to be done. I dare say Rose is on a reasonable whack and he can't get picked ahead of a mid 30s players from NLN (coke) and a teenager with about 4 league starts who isn't really up to EFL standards (at least not yet) (spokes) ora utility player (clifton). We would be better off saving some of Rose's wages by coming to an arrangement and having them to put towards someone Hurst is willing to play.

Quoted from DB

Depends on his budget. For me Macca, Hab, Clifton, Coke, LJL, Jackson.Kouri, and Adlard. If they can be persuaded Hendrie, Hewitt, Matete, and Menayese. We also need 2/3 strikers, LJL holds the ball week but we do need out and out strikers as the missed chances have shown.

Since Jackson Jr came to us I have always had a soft spot for him due to his attitude. Hope he does well next season in what is almost certain the conference now . His mindset appears to be first class.

Whatever happens, we have to make sure we get off to a flying start next season in the Conference. Every single year in the previous time down there we were already out of the title fight by September, we can't be dropping points with last-minute equalisers at Kidderminster, failing to beat Nuneaton at home or losing at Altrincham in August again.

He'll keep Lenny almost certainly. I'd try and keep Macca, Hendrie, Menayese, Hewitt, Habergham, Matete and Coke. But honestly, I won't be bothered if we start next season with zero of this year's players. We need a complete clear-out and fresh start.

I hope our budget is at least moderately more competitive than it was the last time, bigger parachute payments, no Fentynomics so we should be better placed.

Quoted from forza ivano

Williams is a frustrating one. If Hurst could get a tune out of him he's got he ability & pedigree to be the best player in the division, but i wonder if the injuries have 'done for him' as much psychologically as physically

i'd be interested to know which players have already been told to look for pastures new

I'd take a guess that him and Hurst don't see eye to eye. Clearly has talent, better than most of Hurst's selections out wide or as an attacking midfielder, but even after his performance in the Mansfield game, Hurst hasn't used him. Something wasn't right for him not to be involved for such a long time beforehand or after that game. Maybe it's his his attitude or he wants away or even Hurst just doesn't rate him. Whatever it is, I was baffled that he hasn't been selected that often, because as you say, on his day he can be a world beater for this level of football..

Quoted from arryarryarry

To be honest I don't really think Clifton has come on like some thought he might. In my opinion he is probably not good enough for a hopefully promotion winning team.

I was one who thought Harry would be a real influential player for us sadly not the case no one can deny his effort but just lacks that bit of quality.

Quoted from dapperz fun pub

I was one who thought Harry would be a real influential player for us sadly not the case no one can deny his effort but just lacks that bit of quality.

Highly dependable squad player in the Conference though..

Quoted from Bigdog

The players weren't up to standard true, but that same bunch of players had won at Cheltenham, Orient and Crawley and had just beaten Scunthorpe. After Hurst said that, we picked up two points in the next nine games and slid into the relegation places. I think it's logical to think that Hurst could have some ability in boosting the existing players' confidence to pick up more than two points. How often have we seen the new manager bounce elsewhere, better results with the same players? The disturbing fact is that Hurst has done even worse than Holloway this season on a points per game basis, even after signing eleven new players. I'm not saying Hurst is a poorer manager than Holloway, but his mistakes and record should not be brushed under the carpet and be ignored. Slagging off the squad he inherited publicly was a big mistake imho and seems logical enough when comparing results before he arrived to the ones directly after..

The Cheltenham and Orient games were frustrating anomalies. We looked great in both games. That was the type of football Holloway wanted us to be playing all the time, but we were severely lacking in leadership and experience at the attacking end of the pitch, other than Matt Green. We relied on young loanees way too much early doors, our transfer/recruitment/retained player policy was terrible in the summer and we furloughed the groundstaff while trying to play the ball on the deck. This astronomical balls up meant PH had an absolutely terrible chance of keeping us up. The damage was all but done before a ball was even kicked. Hurst's record hasn't been great, but we know what he's about. He doesn't come in and get results. He comes in and gets rid of the bad eggs and sorts the defence out and then he builds from there. We might be going down having had Hurst in charge for half the season, but if anyone thinks we have regressed under Hurst they need their head testing. Last night aside, we've been one of the toughest sides to play against in the division for the last two months or so.

One thing I will say I'm not pleased about that PH has done, is handing an 18 month deal to LJL, I'd much rather keep Hanson than him but there's no point in having them both in the squad. It's mad that we've been playing those two together and it's absolutely mental that we played them in a three with Payne. Our attacking options have been dire all season, but if we'd have had Hanson fit all season and another striker who wasn't in that same mould and had some Football League experience under their belt we'd have had a much better chance at not going down.

I just pray to god that next season our top earners whoever they may be, are playing and in form. So much of our budgets in recent seasons have been on players that have done sodomist all. Scannell, Williams and Green. That's a big chunk of budget that has been largely useless and/or absent. Then going back since our return to the FL we've had Jordan Cook, Whitehouse, Kristian Dennis, JOHN flipping WELSH, Chris Clements, Simeon Jackson, Jamille Matt, McSheffrey, Scott Vernon...all complete pish and all stealing a decent living from us. It's quite impressive how incompetent our transfer record has been over the past few seasons.

Quoted from Bigdog

Highly dependable squad player in the Conference though..

Perhaps .. was hoping his career would be better than that

Quoted from Bigdog

Highly dependable squad player in the Conference though..

Agree with this, I wouldn't want him in League 2 but I'll have him in the Conference. He'll run his bottom into the ground for the cause, you can afford to have a couple of players like this down there. I feel harsh saying that, but he's probably not good enough for L2. I hope he kicks on in the Conference next season though. Could be a few players who might benefit from dropping down a division. Max Wright is another one if he can stay fit. Pollock too.

I hope that the new owners would like to make a push for league football as early as possible - investing in the clubs players to make that happen. Isn`t there also some sort of compensation package when you go down to the conference? So, some extra money available?

Quoted from geir

I hope that the new owners would like to make a push for league football as early as possible - investing in the clubs players to make that happen. Isn`t there also some sort of compensation package when you go down to the conference? So, some extra money available?

There's a parachute payment, I read it's 750k but I'm not sure if that's true. I guess it's to cover loss of Sky money. I remember last time we went down, your youth academy gets funded in full for a season or you can split it in half and have 50% for two seasons but I have no idea if that's still a thing.

Quoted from Son of Cod

There's a parachute payment, I read it's 750k but I'm not sure if that's true. I guess it's to cover loss of Sky money. I remember last time we went down, your youth academy gets funded in full for a season or you can split it in half and have 50% for two seasons but I have no idea if that's still a thing.

I would be interested to know how many paid staff are employed within the academy and how much in total it is costing the club for what we actually get back in terms of value for money any youth player gives the club back in terms of eventually playing first team football.

Quoted from arryarryarry

You mean basically the same squad that is getting us relegated?

No, I said keep up to the 12 I mention and a further 12 + recruits to make a squad. What I wouldn't want to happen is the old chestnut of a new squad needs time to gel! We have to hit the ground running, and get points straight away. Keeping the best from this team will help that process.

Quoted from Son of Cod

There's a parachute payment, I read it's 750k but I'm not sure if that's true. I guess it's to cover loss of Sky money. I remember last time we went down, your youth academy gets funded in full for a season or you can split it in half and have 50% for two seasons but I have no idea if that's still a thing.

Here is an article on the relegation of Yeovil to non league at the end of the last "normal" season, before we had this covid ravaged one.

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/cost-consequences-yeovil-town-getting-2746045

Presuming things are still the same, we will receive the full EFL basic award of £500,000 in the first season and 50% of that in season two, if we are still in there. We will however lose the Premier League solidarity payment of £450,000, so a big hit. As a big club in non league, we will get a few games on TV and get payments from BT. It's not a lot though.

We really need to get a squad capable of winning games and bringing in the crowds to bring in more revenue and we definitely could do with a cup run or two, which can change things dramatically.

Quoted from Rick12

Since Jackson Jr came to us I have always had a soft spot for him due to his attitude. Hope he does well next season in what is almost certain the conference now . His mindset appears to be first class.

He has a lot to learn Rick but he knows how to put the ball in the net.

In non league he could be a danger for any opponent and if he turns out to be another Podge who cares if other parts of his game is not up to scratch.

Quoted from Son of Cod

One thing I will say I'm not pleased about that PH has done, is handing an 18 month deal to LJL, I'd much rather keep Hanson than him but there's no point in having them both in the squad. It's mad that we've been playing those two together and it's absolutely mental that we played them in a three with Payne. Our attacking options have been dire all season, but if we'd have had Hanson fit all season and another striker who wasn't in that same mould and had some Football League experience under their belt we'd have had a much better chance at not going down.

A strange choice for me. Hanson has been a massive disappointment over the past couple of seasons (though obviously, Green has him beaten all hands down in the disappointment stakes). I expected him to miss a few games due to injury but to chip in with a decent number of goals when he's fit. During his first season he just about managed this, though he was hardly prolific. However, this season, his goal return is just 2 from 23 appearances, more than half of which have been starts. Winning a few headers doesn't really help a great deal if you achieve nothing else. LJL hasn't scored enough goals, either, of course, but it seems his fitness is more likely to hold up. I'd rather have him with us next season than taking a punt on Hanson being fit enough to do something.

It's actually depressing when you look at the stats. A teenage defender is our joint top scorer and all of the strikers to play for us this season have scored the mighty total of 10 goals combined! I wonder why we're going down?

You'd like to think some or more hopefully all of these contacted players will have relegation release and/or reduced contractual terms built into their contracts. That should hopefully lessen the likelihood that we get stuck with Holloways duds next season.

I include Williams in that, it's not just Hurst, Holloway barely put his trust in him to start games for us either, whatever is up with him it doesn't appear fixable. Here at least.

Quoted from grimsby pete

He has a lot to learn Rick but he knows how to put the ball in the net.

In non league he could be a danger for any opponent and if he turns out to be another Podge who cares if other parts of his game is not up to scratch.

Hope so Pete.

We need a clear out lets be quite clear on that, I saw a post on the praise and Grumble page on Facebook the other day Where somebody hoped we kept the majority of this sqaud, in my opinion that is something we can't do and I don't think we will.

Some tough decisions need to be made and I would pay off Scannell, Williams, Rose and Scannell, I am hoping they all have relegation clauses in their contracts which would allow them to leave at little cost to us. Gibson and Jackson Jr are on peanuts so maybe a loan out might be worthwhile to see if they are any good at national League level, if possible loan them out to fellow national League sides for the season but with an option to recall them in January if they do well.

As for offering new contracts, for the players out of contract I would offer Hewitt and Coke and Habergahm new deals and potentially Hendrie, I dare say Hewitt and Hendrie will have some interest from league 2 but for the former he has got 2 relegations in 3 seasons on his CV so he may be more likely to renew his contract with us than the latter.

We get 500k parachute payment and we do need to use that, I don't think many clubs in the national League will have much money for obvious reasons but Wrexham Chesterfield Notts County and Stockport will be well backed financially.

What we do have as an advantage is a full month head start so hopefully we see some early signings to help us hit the ground running, there is not really any excuse on that front.

Hopefully with the new owners we can make a swift return.

Very important and interesting summer awaits us.

There’s doesn’t seem to have been any consideration in this thread for a clauses in contracts for being relegated. Players are often thought to have a % wage drop due to the decrease in revenue and some will have relegation release clauses no doubt.

There is also a good chance that non of this was ever considered when the contracts were written up by Fenty looking at how bad the deals have been.

Ultimately, we all have a different opinion on players and their worth to the squad. I personally put my trust towards Hurst because he will get the fundamentals right which he has had to spend more time than I’m sure he has wanted to do this season. I trust he’ll find the little bits of quality needed and don’t doubt we will be in the playoff and above positions next year.

Quoted from forza ivano

Hurst has relied on about 15-20 players over the last couple of months
i'd guess Macca, the Shop, Clifton & Habergham in the team (& Coke possibly)
Spokes, Khouri and Jackson in the squad

and that's about it

(am presuming Hewitt, Eastwood, Matete, Menayese & Hendrie will remain in the FL)

No Wight then.

In Hursts pre match he said that Gibson was not in his plans for this season and when asked about whether he would be next season, Hurst said he wouldn't discuss that, but his manner said no chance. I assume Gibson is a goner, along with Sissay, so two of the "promising" strikers we signed will be gone. Don't know about Jackson as he has something about him and can play wide as well as central. Given his brief appearances, he probably has the best goals to minutes ratio at the club.

Hurst also said he had talked to couple of players but won't at this stage say who they were or what the gist of the conversations were. I imagine a good few have already been told to start looking elsewhere.

There was also talk of the state of the training facilities and the fact that PH had attended an under 14 game somewhere recently and they had a better pitch than we did. No wonder the club is on it's ar$e.

There was talk too of anger among the staff at BP as to how we have ended up in this position. There were plenty of veiled digs in his interviews. This relegation was inevitable by the sound of it and blaming Hurst is just a case of shooting the messenger in my opinion.

Quoted from ginnywings

In Hursts pre match he said that Gibson was not in his plans for this season and when asked about whether he would be next season, Hurst said he wouldn't discuss that, but his manner said no chance. I assume Gibson is a goner, along with Sissay, so two of the "promising" strikers we signed will be gone. Don't know about Jackson as he has something about him and can play wide as well as central. Given his brief appearances, he probably has the best goals to minutes ratio at the club.

Hurst also said he had talked to couple of players but won't at this stage say who they were or what the gist of the conversations were. I imagine a good few have already been told to start looking elsewhere.

There was also talk of the state of the training facilities and the fact that PH had attended an under 14 game somewhere recently and they had a better pitch than we did. No wonder the club is on it's ar$e.

There was talk too of anger among the staff at BP as to how we have ended up in this position. There were plenty of veiled digs in his interviews. This relegation was inevitable by the sound of it and blaming Hurst is just a case of shooting the messenger in my opinion.

Was this the Ifollow one Ginny?

I listened to his one with Matt Dean, and whilst remaining professional throughout, you can tell he is seething, wants to say so much more, and a slight dig at Holloway i felt too, PH said about people can look good from the outside, but ultimately they are just good actors- I think the clubs in a worse state, or were in a worse state, that maybe we've even realised

Quoted from Hagrid

Was this the Ifollow one Ginny?

I listened to his one with Matt Dean, and whilst remaining professional throughout, you can tell he is seething, wants to say so much more, and a slight dig at Holloway i felt too, PH said about people can look good from the outside, but ultimately they are just good actors- I think the clubs in a worse state, or were in a worse state, that maybe we've even realised

From what's been posted on various threads about the last 17 years It's easy to assume that the club has been run as a dictatorship. This being the case it hard to compare the Fenty years with what the future holds.

The total lack of investment is easy for us to see, but what we don't know is how the non-football staff have been treat. Has any motivation, enthusiasm optimism they have had been quoshed by Fenty, how have their salaries/wages been affected by him?

We know how good players were offered worse contracts than their previous ones, and there has been criticism of Hurst in the transfer market now and in the last time we were in the NL. What we don't know is if Fenty stopped Hursts targets coming or just vetoed them.

We are starting a new beginning and the only sure thing we know is that 1878 wants Hurst. In Hursts judgement they trust and so must we. Let's hope nobody is pulling any strings in the background and Hurst is allowed a free hand to get the club back into L2.

Also let's not forget the non-football staff and hope that they will get the recognition they deserve.

I think its silly to think we can pay off so many players. i expect Scannel etc to stay.
Scannel should be a great player at that level.

Think he will let the ones out of contract go and fill there places with some better quality(not hard in greens case).
The young ones like jackson will stay but gibson probably not.

hope spokes does get an offer as he has some potential, probably more than clifton had at a similar stage.

'who will be in the team in 6 months time?'

Now we are relegated the gloves are off for Hurst.

I'm expecting a mass clear out now asap so Hurst can get a head start on the teams competing at the top of the National League that still don't know where they will be next season.

Quoted from monkeyboy

I think its silly to think we can pay off so many players. i expect Scannel etc to stay.
Scannel should be a great player at that level.

Think he will let the ones out of contract go and fill there places with some better quality(not hard in greens case).
The young ones like jackson will stay but gibson probably not.

hope spokes does get an offer as he has some potential, probably more than clifton had at a similar stage.

If he played like he couldn't be arsed in some games in the EFL what's he going to play like at the likes of King's Lynn, Woking etc?

I would sooner sacrifice some of next seasons budget to have a clear out of all the dead wood.

Team spirit is important and dead wood hanging around the place won't help with that. Get them gone and put together a team that will run through brick walls for the shirt.

Will have Macca, Clifton, Watershed, Pollock, Habergham, LJL, Coke, Khouri, Spokes. Jackson Jnr
Will also try to sign/resign Hendrie, Hewitt, Menayese.
No hope of Matete coming I would of thought.

Quoted from Madeleymariner

Will have Macca, Clifton, Watershed, Pollock, Habergham, LJL, Coke, Khouri, Spokes. Jackson Jnr
Will also try to sign/resign Hendrie, Hewitt, Menayese.
No hope of Matete coming I would of thought.

I thought Coke was only signed till the end of the season, at least when PH was asked about him that seemed the response.

I get the impression PH likes Coke and I wouldn't surprised if he tries to keep him on

Let’s be honest, with the addition of probably an out and out winger and a decent finisher this side wouldn’t actuslly be that bad.

Last time we were down here Hurst always managed to find a decent striker, hopefully that is the case this time...

I think the fact that we have not named full subs benches for the last couple of games suggests that he has basically told several squad players to sodomist off already and does not want them neat the team.

I think we will show a large number of the squad the door and bring in hard working pro's with the right attitude.

Think you're right Ron. Iknowyoursecrets claimed Williams had been told already. Seems pretty obvious rose is a gonner.
Scannell is an interesting one.seemed a certainty for the chop but he's been included in the last couple of squads.wonder If he might get a start Saturday, in mate's absence.
I haven't seen much of him, but am I right in saying that when he has played,he has looked good? Maybe hurst thinks he could be of use in the NL

Scannell has the ability, no doubt.

Quoted from forza ivano

Think you're right Ron. Iknowyoursecrets claimed William's had been told already. Seems pretty obvious rose is a gonner.
Scannell is an interesting one.seemed a certaintyf the chop but hes been included the last couple of squads.wonder If he might get a start saturday in mate's absence.
I haven't seen much of him, but am I right in saying that when he has played,he has looked good? Maybe hurst thinks he could use in the NL

Agreed. If Hurst would rather have an empty space on the bench than Gibson, Rose, Williams it tells you everything you need to know about what he thinks of them. Maybe loans instead of payoff but surely they will all be elsewhere come the new season.

Scannell I would have thought was also one of the first out the door but just maybe their is a chink of light there? Considering even Holloway dropped him for attitude that really does surprise me.

Morais has already been told he will leave.

Waterfall signed a contract but it was mentioned at the time it had a relegation break clause, let's just hope that worked both ways as dropping to non league won't stop him being a calamity waiting to happen and we could get rid at no cost.

Jackson was rarely used by Hurst so I think he would rather get rid but we can't pay off EVERYBODY, and he will be cheap, so that might save him. Hurst did prefer out of position players to him though so he will be very peripheral if he stays I would think, no different to this year.

Macca is on big money and its his testimonial year and personal pride would make him inclined to stay and help us get back up, so I can't see him being paid off or agreeing to be loaned out. He will almost certainly be the highest paid keeper in non league which would leave us little room for manoeuvre in terms of justifying the of signing another first team keeper to challenge him though.

Max Wright has been injured almost all of Hurst tenure (no surprise) so will presumably be given a chance to prove himself.

Who else is already contracted apart from the shop who will obviously be staying?

All told by everyone about players for next season I think the team for the Vale match, and Cambridge one, will make interesting reading.

It may give us an insight as to who Hurst wants and who's down the A180.

Scannell Worst croc we have had for years he makes Hanson look like a 50 game a season player in comparison has only managed about 13 games per season over the last 4 years. Get rid drain on budget

Quoted from Madeleymariner

Scannell Worst croc we have had for years he makes Hanson look like a 50 game a season player in comparison has only managed about 13 games per season over the last 4 years. Get rid drain on budget

What really bugs me about him is we always seem to get a shot of him in the interviews running about doing reps yet he hardly appears in the matchday squad

Quoted from toontown

Waterfall signed a contract but it was mentioned at the time it had a relegation break clause, let's just hope that worked both ways as dropping to non league won't stop him being a calamity waiting to happen and we could get rid at no cost.

Jackson was rarely used by Hurst so I think he would rather get rid but we can't pay off EVERYBODY, and he will be cheap, so that might save him. Hurst did prefer out of position players to him though so he will be very peripheral if he stays I would think, no different to this year.

?

Waterfall & Pollock are equally interesting. Given the success of Menayese & Hewitt it's difficult to see us needing both of them (W&P), as they seem very similar (unless of course Pollock can lose a bit of weight and develop a turn of speed). Having said that i can see one of them being useful as a big physical stopper when we come up against those big old NL lumps up front

Quoted from Swansea_Mariner

What really bugs me about him is we always seem to get a shot of him in the interviews running about doing reps yet he hardly appears in the matchday squad

A Bradford told me that when it comes to game day Scannell regularly fakes injury so he doesn't have to play, god knows how true it is but it may somewhat help to explain his lack of games in the last 4-5 seasons.

Quoted from forza ivano

Waterfall & Pollock are equally interesting. Given the success of Menayese & Hewitt it's difficult to see us needing both of them (W&P), as they seem very similar (unless of course Pollock can lose a bit of weight and develop a turn of speed). Having said that i can see one of them being useful as a big physical stopper when we come up against those big old NL lumps up front

Agreed. I just hope that we don't feel obliged to keep waterfall due to payoff cost if we got rid, and thus allow Pollock to leave. Although they are v similar Pollock is still a teenager and still developing and is already the calmer, less error prone defender (and scores goals). He would definitely be great for marshaling some of the big lump target men in the NL.