Signs for Altrincham on a one month loan

Good practice for next season etc

I think league 2 was a step too far. A bit of confidence at that level might do him the world of good. He looked ok early on

As crazy a season as this is....isnt he our top scoring striker this season ?

and we loan him out when we cant win games ....  ;D

Quoted from moosey_club

As crazy a season as this is....isnt he our top scoring striker this season ?

and we loan him out when we cant win games ....  ;D

I don't know but we could try signing this bloke, he looks quite good  ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgh-I24PfGc&feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=SamPageVideos

Quoted from moosey_club

As crazy a season as this is....isnt he our top scoring striker this season ?

and we loan him out when we cant win games ....  ;D

Also reminiscent of this season is the statistic that, having reached March and having played 29 league games, I am only 3 goals behind our top league goal scorer this season.

Incidentally, so are you. Unless, of course, you happen to be Matt Green, in which case you're only 2 goals behind. Even better.

Quoted from Poojah

Also reminiscent of this season is the statistic that, having reached March and having played 29 league games, I am only 3 goals behind our top league goal scorer this season.

Incidentally, so are you. Unless, of course, you happen to be Matt Green, in which case you're only 2 goals behind. Even better.

What are you doing tomorrow night and have you still got your boots?

I think it was a step too far for Gibson , Jackson and obviously Sisay to be expected to lead our line over the season. Gibson and Jackson were signed on 3 and 2 year contracts, they should have been getting used to training full time , playing reserve team matches and occasionally brought into match day squads.

Unfortunately they were thrust in a struggling team without the tactical nous or ability and it’s was clear it was too much too soon.

So good luck to the lad , hope he bags a few and gets his confidence back.

Hurst seems intent on putting his faith in 4 of the most immobile strikers I have seen at the club at any one time, for me we need the option of some pace on the bench and I would be utilising Jackson over green. For all his raw ability and headlessrunning about, he has found himself in the right place at the right time twice this season, which puts him as our most prolific striker.

My only hope is Montel can bag a few goals and build his confidence back up, did well for Halesowen.
Do think there's a player in there but I do think It's Jackson is a better prospect.
If we go down you have to expect Gibson, Jackson and LJL becoming our main strike force, anybody know how bad NLN is!??..

I think Gibson has shown brief glimpses of being a decent player, but some of his basic attributes are absolutely miles off being a professional footballer. I can honestly say I’ve not seen a striker worse in front of goal than him but it can surely only be a composure thing given the fact he banged them in elsewhere.

If his composure and first touch can be improved, we MIGHT have a decent player.

Bringing Gibson, Jackson, Spokes, even Sissay in was on paper a good move.    Lads who aren't a huge investment but worth taking a look at to see how they cope in the full time environment.  I liked that approach if I'm honest.  There's a huge pool of talent in the non-league scene and it disappointed me when we seemed to abandon that approach post-Bignot, especially when it had served us so well for so many seasons before.

But because the rest of the squad building and recruitment was so poor, these lads were thrust into the first team and expected to deliver from the off pretty much.  

Just in terms of the lengths of contracts, it would be daft of any of those with deals to walk away (unless we put attractive packages together for them) so there may yet be hope that they can develop properly over the next year or so.

Unfortunately though, at the minute, they're the hallmarks of Holloway's last six months at the club.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Bringing Gibson, Jackson, Spokes, even Sissay in was on paper a good move.    Lads who aren't a huge investment but worth taking a look at to see how they cope in the full time environment.  I liked that approach if I'm honest.  There's a huge pool of talent in the non-league scene and it disappointed me when we seemed to abandon that approach post-Bignot, especially when it had served us so well for so many seasons before.

But because the rest of the squad building and recruitment was so poor, these lads were thrust into the first team and expected to deliver from the off pretty much.  

Just in terms of the lengths of contracts, it would be daft of any of those with deals to walk away (unless we put attractive packages together for them) so there may yet be hope that they can develop properly over the next year or so.

Unfortunately though, at the minute, they're the hallmarks of Holloway's last six months at the club.

I think this idea that you bring in non league players and they might well come good is an absolute myth tbh. People always cite Vardy as a case in point, the difference with him was that Vardy was absolutely unbelievable and head & shoulders above everyone around him.

Granted there have been a few success stories but not really many, I know Crawley had one this year but look at how many clubs tried this approach this summer, it’s a ‘miss’ rather than a ‘hit’ more often than not.

FWIW I think Spokes is a good player and worth another look given his performance against Bradford alone.

Hearn, Pearson, McKeown and Bogle are just 4 players who we brought up a level in non-league.

Peterborough are the golden example....McClean, Boyd, Mackail-Smith, Gayle, Assombalonga, Maddison....I think Lincoln have done half decent down the road with it as well, especially under the Cowley's.

Then there's other players who've gone up the ladder.  Michail Antonio (Tooting & Mitcham), Chris Smalling (Maidstone),, Yannick Bolasie (Hillingdon), Charlie Austin (Poole), James Tarkowski (Maine).  Even going back further, Ian Wright and Kevin Phillips cut their teeth in non-league.

Is every non-league player that's signed a success?  No, absolutely not.  I think you're right that it's more often a miss than a hit, but that's probably the case with all transfers isn't it?

The point is that it's a way of bringing players in who are, to use a Brian Laws phrase, rough diamonds.  We can't spend big on transfers and we're not in the Crewe position of having a full quota of our squad coming through the youth set-up, so it's a market we can tap into if we want to develop.  

Quoted from diehardmariner

Hearn, Pearson, McKeown and Bogle are just 4 players who we brought up a level in non-league.

Peterborough are the golden example....McClean, Boyd, Mackail-Smith, Gayle, Assombalonga, Maddison....I think Lincoln have done half decent down the road with it as well, especially under the Cowley's.

Then there's other players who've gone up the ladder.  Michail Antonio (Tooting & Mitcham), Chris Smalling (Maidstone),, Yannick Bolasie (Hillingdon), Charlie Austin (Poole), James Tarkowski (Maine).  Even going back further, Ian Wright and Kevin Phillips cut their teeth in non-league.

Is every non-league player that's signed a success?  No, absolutely not.  I think you're right that it's more often a miss than a hit, but that's probably the case with all transfers isn't it?

The point is that it's a way of bringing players in who are, to use a Brian Laws phrase, rough diamonds.  We can't spend big on transfers and we're not in the Crewe position of having a full quota of our squad coming through the youth set-up, so it's a market we can tap into if we want to develop.  

Hurst had a decent record of being in for players but missing out whilst we were non league, if that can be classed as a “decent record”. Think we were in talks with Andre Gray, Freddie Ladapo, Akinde and a few others I can’t quite recall now who have all gone on to have decent careers after swerving us.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Hearn, Pearson, McKeown and Bogle are just 4 players who we brought up a level in non-league.

Peterborough are the golden example....McClean, Boyd, Mackail-Smith, Gayle, Assombalonga, Maddison....I think Lincoln have done half decent down the road with it as well, especially under the Cowley's.

Then there's other players who've gone up the ladder.  Michail Antonio (Tooting & Mitcham), Chris Smalling (Maidstone),, Yannick Bolasie (Hillingdon), Charlie Austin (Poole), James Tarkowski (Maine).  Even going back further, Ian Wright and Kevin Phillips cut their teeth in non-league.

Is every non-league player that's signed a success?  No, absolutely not.  I think you're right that it's more often a miss than a hit, but that's probably the case with all transfers isn't it?

The point is that it's a way of bringing players in who are, to use a Brian Laws phrase, rough diamonds.  We can't spend big on transfers and we're not in the Crewe position of having a full quota of our squad coming through the youth set-up, so it's a market we can tap into if we want to develop.  

And theres that other bloke at Leicester. That Vardy bloke.

John Cockerill although a local lad and already having family ties to the club was bought from Stafford Rangers I think. Keith Alexander from non-league Barnet. We do have a history of picking up and improving players from non-league.

Quoted from pontoonlew

I think this idea that you bring in non league players and they might well come good is an absolute myth tbh. People always cite Vardy as a case in point, the difference with him was that Vardy was absolutely unbelievable and head & shoulders above everyone around him.

Granted there have been a few success stories but not really many, I know Crawley had one this year but look at how many clubs tried this approach this summer, it’s a ‘miss’ rather than a ‘hit’ more often than not.

FWIW I think Spokes is a good player and worth another look given his performance against Bradford alone.

But that's not true is it? There are dozens of examples.

I bet there aren't many teams in this league without a smattering of ex non league players in their squad and first team.

Still think Jackson is our most natural finisher. Get some service into the box and the lad will score more than the other strikers.
Sometimes you need a player like that that can’t do much else but will bang them away.
We have the other strikers that should on paper complement him.

Gibson for me is not a striker as he has the shooting ability of akpa akpro.

In the defence of Gibson, he's started 7 games for us in the league, a further 2 in the EFL Trophy.  He's started consecutive games just twice and never made it to three consecutive starts.

Of course you can argue that the reason for that is that he's not good enough and has wasted his chances.  But he's hardly had a fair crack of the whip to get going has he?  

Liam Hearn took what felt like an age to get going in his first season (I think it was ten games) but he was given time to bed into his new environment and make that step-up.  Now I'm not saying Gibson is the new Hearn, far from it even though he does have some similarities in his style of play.  But we can't write Gibson off just because he's not set the world alight with his here and there half chances.

Regards Akpa-Akpro....I'd have him back over anyone we've featured up front this season.

I fee Gibson and Jackson were thrown in at the deep end rather than being developed. I recall a lot of offside frustration with Gibson. Some simple basic things. I think both he and Jackson would benefit from a loan move to get some game time under their belts and when they return a couple of games alongside Hanson. They were thrust into a struggling team with limited width and creativity. I’d like to think Hurst hasn’t passed judgement just yet as I think there’s a player lurking somewhere in there.

Be great if the loan spell could have the same impact as it did on Charles Vernam at Chorley. We got a different person/player back then.

Quoted from Davec

Signs for Altrincham on a one month loan

Cue a hatrick against Woking tonight...

Quoted from diehardmariner

In the defence of Gibson, he's started 7 games for us in the league, a further 2 in the EFL Trophy.  He's started consecutive games just twice and never made it to three consecutive starts.

Of course you can argue that the reason for that is that he's not good enough and has wasted his chances.  But he's hardly had a fair crack of the whip to get going has he?  

Liam Hearn took what felt like an age to get going in his first season (I think it was ten games) but he was given time to bed into his new environment and make that step-up.  Now I'm not saying Gibson is the new Hearn, far from it even though he does have some similarities in his style of play.  But we can't write Gibson off just because he's not set the world alight with his here and there half chances.

Regards Akpa-Akpro....I'd have him back over anyone we've featured up front this season.

Didn't get a consistent run of games because he was crap in most of the ones he did play. Barely made a threatening run forward where he wasn't offside, his finishing was dire, positional play not great and didn't do much pressing and defending from the front. He looked like a fish out of water for me and a move downwards will do him the world of good I'm sure.

Going back a few years but Alan Devonshire.  Moved from non-league Southall to West Ham and a few years later playing in an FA Cup final.

Quoted from bax

Didn't get a consistent run of games because he was crap in most of the ones he did play. Barely made a threatening run forward where he wasn't offside, his finishing was dire, positional play not great and didn't do much pressing and defending from the front. He looked like a fish out of water for me and a move downwards will do him the world of good I'm sure.

Totally agree. Especially when it comes to his *always* being offside. Coming from so much further down the pyramid, I imagine he can get away with lurking just behind the line as the defenders will drop more readily when a ball is played forward. Defenders are much more savvy in the FL, push higher and don't drop back as easily.

(It does feel weird describing L2 defenders as "savvy", but I guess everything's relative.)

Quoted from ginnywings

But that's not true is it? There are dozens of examples.

I bet there aren't many teams in this league without a smattering of ex non league players in their squad and first team.

Dozens of example out of how many that were signed? People look at Vardy etc and think 'oh lets just pick a player out of Non League and bingo' which seemed to be Holloways idea, he rated himself that highly that he thought he could make a poor player somehow miles better.

Interesting you say that though, out of the top 10 strikers in the league this season, only one can be classed really as being 'plucked from Non League' recently and that is Max Watters, who I mentioned earlier. The rest have mainly come from EFL clubs and looking at the top 20 scorers off the top of my head maybe one of them was plucked from NL recently. You could make a case for Joe Ironside at an absolute push, but he had a season in the EFL before Cambridge got him.

Given the amount of clubs that sign 'unknowns', the % of them that turn out to be any good whatsoever is pretty low. Even when Bogle is mentioned, the guy was at, WBA, Birmingham and Celtic, dropped down and absolutely banged them in in NLN. We signed 3 lads way further down the ladder than that with nowhere near that pedigree.

Quoted from bax

Didn't get a consistent run of games because he was crap in most of the ones he did play. Barely made a threatening run forward where he wasn't offside, his finishing was dire, positional play not great and didn't do much pressing and defending from the front. He looked like a fish out of water for me and a move downwards will do him the world of good I'm sure.

You mean a bit like the rest of the shite playing for us?

Quoted from pontoonlew

Dozens of example out of how many that were signed? People look at Vardy etc and think 'oh lets just pick a player out of Non League and bingo' which seemed to be Holloways idea, he rated himself that highly that he thought he could make a poor player somehow miles better.

Interesting you say that though, out of the top 10 strikers in the league this season, only one can be classed really as being 'plucked from Non League' recently and that is Max Watters, who I mentioned earlier. The rest have mainly come from EFL clubs and looking at the top 20 scorers off the top of my head maybe one of them was plucked from NL recently. You could make a case for Joe Ironside at an absolute push, but he had a season in the EFL before Cambridge got him.

Given the amount of clubs that sign 'unknowns', the % of them that turn out to be any good whatsoever is pretty low. Even when Bogle is mentioned, the guy was at, WBA, Birmingham and Celtic, dropped down and absolutely banged them in in NLN. We signed 3 lads way further down the ladder than that with nowhere near that pedigree.

I don't think anyone would argue that it's a gamble when bringing in non-league players, but as I said further up that's the case with all signings.  Be it from non-league, our level or a higher one.  Quite simply our recruitment has been poor since we returned to the Football League.  Nearly 5 years of poor recruitment, it's no surprise we're in this current position.

one things for sure - we will be seeing a lot more non league players ina Town shirt next year!

Quoted from ska face

Hurst had a decent record of being in for players but missing out whilst we were non league, if that can be classed as a “decent record”. Think we were in talks with Andre Gray, Freddie Ladapo, Akinde and a few others I can’t quite recall now who have all gone on to have decent careers after swerving us.

All Hurst ever did was buy the leading young scorer from the league below , Bit like Neil Warnock used to do .
Hurst as far as I can remember never brought any lads from our youth team into the first team .
If I was a Town youth player now I’d forget about a career in football

Hurst spoke about the youth team issue just before we got promoted I think.

Basically he wanted to bring young lads in but because of a) a tight budget and b) the immediate focus of getting back in the league, he could never justify a plan.

Very few young lads are ready at 18, they usually get to about 20/21 when they're good enough to really have a good in the first team.  With a clear remit on the immediate and nothing about long-term planning, we were never going to give contracts like we've done to Clifton, Wright etc. when we could have used that money to sign someone who might just have helped pick up a few extra points over the course of the season.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

My only hope is Montel can bag a few goals and build his confidence back up, did well for Halesowen.
Do think there's a player in there but I do think It's Jackson is a better prospect.
If we go down you have to expect Gibson, Jackson and LJL becoming our main strike force, anybody know how bad NLN is!??..

I've streamed all Boston United games,home and away this season and I will say it was far more enjoyable than watching this Town squad. I would go as far as to say that I'm sure all the teams I saw in those matches would beat us right now.I didn't see any player that gave less than 100%..

Quoted from Grimal

I would go as far as to say that I'm sure all the teams I saw in those matches would beat us right now.I didn't see any player that gave less than 100%..

I concur. I watched the National League Notts County v King's Lynn game on Tuesday night after switching the Town game off at half time. King's Lynn are in their own relegation battle and have furloughed half of their squad but still played out of their skin and earned a well deserved 2-2 draw. I have no doubt King's Lynn would beat Grimsby if they played each other tomorrow. Passion, determination, no less than 100% effort for the full 90 minutes.

Quoted from GG

I concur. I watched the National League Notts County v King's Lynn game on Tuesday night after switching the Town game off at half time. King's Lynn are in their own relegation battle and have furloughed half of their squad but still played out of their skin and earned a well deserved 2-2 draw. I have no doubt King's Lynn would beat Grimsby if they played each other tomorrow. Passion, determination, no less than 100% effort for the full 90 minutes.

I read some depressing stuff on this message board but the idea that Kings Lynn would give Town a good beating at the moment is the most depressing thing I have ever read here. I am plenty old enough to remember the days when Kings Lynn would have been pre season whipping boys or unlikely FA Cup 3rd round opponents to be disposed of before playing a 'proper' team.

How far we have fallen.....

I try not commenting on Towns game now as they need support and encouragement not that they are useless and not fit to wear the shirt.

Part of the problem is we do not have a natural goal scorer and because of that the manager sets the team up not to concede .

Nothing will change this season we just have to hope our luck changes and we get a couple of wins on the bounce which will give the lads their confidence back because it must be confidence draining losing a string of games and the supporters saying things in the heat of the moment.

Let's hope Paul puts two up front with at least one winger and we stuff FGR  and go on to secure our safety from there

All is not lost yet keep the faith.

Quoted from grimsby pete

I try not commenting on Towns game now as they need support and encouragement not that they are useless and not fit to wear the shirt.

Part of the problem is we do not have a natural goal scorer and because of that the manager sets the team up not to concede .

Nothing will change this season we just have to hope our luck changes and we get a couple of wins on the bounce which will give the lads their confidence back because it must be confidence draining losing a string of games and the supporters saying things in the heat of the moment.

Let's hope Paul puts two up front with at least one winger and we stuff FGR  and go on to secure our safety from there

All is not lost yet keep the faith.

You make a good point (and it's been made elsewhere). I didn't watch on Saturday but the general consensus is that one up front didn't work and that we are trying to avoid defeat rather than win.

I would rather see us set up to attack and going for it - if you go out to win you might draw, if you go out to draw you might lose. We now have a number of 'strikers' on the books; I'd rather see PH experiment with partnerships and see if a couple of them click. Plus, 2 strikers gives the opponent's defence much more to think about (I used to be a centre half, if we played against a team with one striker up we virtually went to 3 at the back and sometimes 2 if the lone striker was crap and we piled pressure on the opposition).

Eastwood
Hendrie-Pollock-Menayese-Bunney
Morais-Matete-El Mizuoni-Lamy
LJL Payne

That for me is what I would start this Saturday - yes Bunney hasn't been the best but I feel he should start, but really flip a coin between him and Habergham

Pollock in for Waterfall as he is slightly better and has been rested.

Lamy seems to be an interesting one, and Adams didn't do much for me last game

LJL has looked decent, and Payne has played with LJL many times so would be my starting pair.

came off injured last night after only 20 minutes in just his 2nd or 3rd game for Altrincham. Their fans remain unconvinced by him

Surprised he's not won them over in his 88 minutes.

Quoted from forza ivano

came off injured last night after only 20 minutes in just his 2nd or 3rd game for Altrincham. Their fans remain unconvinced by him

To be fair to the kid, even if he joined a National League side last summer, a jump from Halesowen (tier 8) to the National League (tier 5) is still a pretty huge ask. It has been said before - raises questions about IH's signings.

I'm generally a fan of signing non-league players and giving them a shot in the FL, but there's signing players from non-league (NL, NLN/NLS - tier 5 and 6) and then there's signing players from NON-league (tier 7 down...).

Quoted from kafunanapar140909

(tier 8) to the National League (tier 5) .

Not sure why that didn't say "tier eight"  ;D