Print Topic - Archive

Fishy Forum  /  Archive  /  
Posted by: promotion plaice, November 10, 2020, 11:21am

Strange times....

"Albania has emerged as the leading candidate to host England's Nations League game against Iceland next on 18 November if required - with Germany another option being explored."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54843158
Posted by: ska face, November 10, 2020, 11:47am; Reply: 1
With Prem managers constantly bealing about their fixture lists, maybe someone should have a look at the seemingly endless list of horsesh1t international fixtures that are played for nothing but contractual obligations with sponsors.

There’s an international break every few weeks for some garbage competition or round of meaningless friendlies.
Posted by: Son of Cod, November 10, 2020, 12:01pm; Reply: 2
Quoted from ska face
With Prem managers constantly bealing about their fixture lists, maybe someone should have a look at the seemingly endless list of horsesh1t international fixtures that are played for nothing but contractual obligations with sponsors.

There’s an international break every few weeks for some garbage competition or round of meaningless friendlies.

Made me laugh on SSN yesterday when they were reporting that the Denmark v Iceland game could threaten our vital Nations League decider with Iceland. Absolutely vital that we win this Nations League group and qualify for a tournament that we've already qualified for. It's not as if we're at risk of bringing a new strain of COVID into the country or anything by fulfilling these vital fixtures or anything is it? It would be a different story if that was the case and surely the FA would act accordingly...
Posted by: grimsby pete, November 10, 2020, 12:03pm; Reply: 3
If the Iceland players have been on the same pitch with Danish players.

Our players might catch the virus from them if they have picked it up from the Danes.

So they will have to self isolate when they return home .

This whole thing is just barmy  call the match off.
Posted by: GollyGTFC, November 10, 2020, 5:22pm; Reply: 4
Quoted from Son of Cod

Made me laugh on SSN yesterday when they were reporting that the Denmark v Iceland game could threaten our vital Nations League decider with Iceland. Absolutely vital that we win this Nations League group and qualify for a tournament that we've already qualified for. It's not as if we're at risk of bringing a new strain of COVID into the country or anything by fulfilling these vital fixtures or anything is it? It would be a different story if that was the case and surely the FA would act accordingly...


We haven't already qualified for the 2022 FIFA World Cup. The best 2 Europa League Group winners who don't finish in the top 2 of their World Cup qualification group will go into the play-offs for the final 3 places in Qatar.

The UEFA WC qualification will be 10 groups of 5/6. The 10 group winners qualify directly. And 12 teams (10 group runner-ups and 2 teams from the Nations League) go into the play-offs (6 Semi-Finals & then 3 Finals) to decide the final 3 qualifiers.

So while the Nations League is pointless it will offer a last chance for 2 teams who make a mess of the group stage.
Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, November 10, 2020, 5:44pm; Reply: 5
Quoted from ska face
With Prem managers constantly bealing about their fixture lists, maybe someone should have a look at the seemingly endless list of horsesh1t international fixtures that are played for nothing but contractual obligations with sponsors.

There’s an international break every few weeks for some garbage competition or round of meaningless friendlies.


You mean as  opposed to the actually endless list of PL/CL fixtures that are played for nothing but contractual obligations with sponsors? ;)

Posted by: aldi_01, November 10, 2020, 10:55pm; Reply: 6
The nations league has to be one of the laughable inventions in international football. Teams have to play a significant amount of friendlies for various reasons/cash but few really took an interest and players pulled out...

How to eradicate this? Invent a competition and suddenly unimportant games become officially important even though many fans still aren’t arsed...
Posted by: jamesgtfc, November 10, 2020, 11:38pm; Reply: 7
Surely international travel should be halted whilst we get a grip on this, especially given the recent news about minks.
Posted by: LH, November 11, 2020, 12:37am; Reply: 8
Quoted from jamesgtfc
Surely international travel should be halted whilst we get a grip on this, especially given the recent news about minks.


We’re not in Belarus’ group so we’re fine.
Posted by: ginnywings, November 11, 2020, 1:36am; Reply: 9
Quoted from LH


We’re not in Belarus’ group so we’re fine.


;D
Posted by: lukeo, November 11, 2020, 6:58am; Reply: 10
I genuinely have not watched a single England game in the nations cup. My personal opinion is that its a load of tosh.
Posted by: diehardmariner, November 11, 2020, 7:26am; Reply: 11
Personally, I quite enjoyed the first set of the Nations League games.  It coincided with a vast improvement in the standard and quality of the England side.  I enjoyed watching us go toe-to-toe with Spain and Croatia and seeing how far we've come.

This second tournament hasn't quite been as entertaining but then again I think football itself isn't the same at the minute.

But trying to force through these fixtures in the current climate is embarrassing really.  How on earth anyone can justify the need for these and the increased risk they bring when hospital beds are exceeding capacity is beyond me.
Posted by: promotion plaice, November 12, 2020, 7:25pm; Reply: 12

"England’s Nations League match against Iceland next week will be played at Wembley after the UK Government granted a travel exemption to the visiting side."


England XI to face the Republic of Ireland in tonight's friendly at Wembley:

Pope, Saka, Mings, Maguire, Keane, James; Winks, Mount, Grealish, Sancho, Calvert-Lewin
Posted by: Bristol Mariner, November 12, 2020, 7:46pm; Reply: 13
come on Serbia!
Posted by: promotion plaice, November 12, 2020, 7:49pm; Reply: 14
Quoted from Bristol Mariner
come on Serbia!

Me and my lad are watching now cheering on Serbia.

Well the Scots love it when we lose don't they   ;)
Posted by: mimma, November 12, 2020, 8:09pm; Reply: 15
WTF!!!  Ireland in white shirts instead of green, England in a horrible blue colour, instead of white.

Mad.
Posted by: Heswall Mariner, November 12, 2020, 9:06pm; Reply: 16
Sad really - I always wanted the Scots to win but since Andy Murray etc made it clear that they wanted anyone to win apart from England in various games I now hope they get stuffed.xx
Posted by: Les Brechin, November 12, 2020, 9:07pm; Reply: 17
Dean Henderson on 2nd half for his full England debut.
Posted by: moosey_club, November 12, 2020, 9:10pm; Reply: 18
Quoted from Les Brechin
Dean Henderson on 2nd half for his full England debut.


A truly inspirational story, to even walk after that horrific incident would be remarkable enough but to not only fully recover and now to represent your country....amazing stuff.
Posted by: promotion plaice, November 12, 2020, 9:11pm; Reply: 19
Quoted from moosey_club


A true inspirational story, to even walk after that horrific incident would be remarkable enough but to not only fully recover and now to represent your country....amazing stuff.

  8) 8) 8)

Posted by: HertsGTFC, November 12, 2020, 9:12pm; Reply: 20
Quoted from moosey_club


A true inspirational story, to even walk after that horrific incident would be remarkable enough but to not only fully recover and now to represent your country....amazing stuff.


Let’s see if he has to make a save, Ireland don’t look all that TBH.
Posted by: moosey_club, November 12, 2020, 9:14pm; Reply: 21
Quoted from HertsGTFC


Let’s see if he has to make a save, Ireland don’t look all that TBH.


Let's hope he doesnt come out to take a free kick
Posted by: Les Brechin, November 12, 2020, 9:21pm; Reply: 22
I may be forgetting someone obvious but is he the first person (post-war) to play for Town and then go on to make an appearance for the senior England team?
Posted by: TownSNAFU5, November 12, 2020, 9:38pm; Reply: 23
Billy Dodds comments in the 89th minute:

“Scotland have managed the game so well so far.  We are in a brilliant position”.

90th minute;
Scotland concede from a corner. Leaving Jovic of Real Madrid unmarked.
Posted by: promotion plaice, November 12, 2020, 9:38pm; Reply: 24

Serbia equalise against Scotland right at the end of 90 mins totally against the run of play....extra-time   8)
Posted by: promotion plaice, November 12, 2020, 10:10pm; Reply: 25

FT....England 3-0 Ireland.

Never in doubt tbh....we really do have some strength in depth these days.

Come on Serbia.
Posted by: ginnywings, November 12, 2020, 10:36pm; Reply: 26
Sweaty socks through on penalties. Ireland lose in extra time.

Think that means we get to play the Scots now?
Posted by: Hagrid, November 12, 2020, 10:59pm; Reply: 27
Quoted from promotion plaice

FT....England 3-0 Ireland.

Never in doubt tbh....we really do have some strength in depth these days.

Come on Serbia.

We do if Southgate uses them properly next summer
Ireland looked hopeless and have a very poor side
Posted by: Gaffer58, November 13, 2020, 11:09am; Reply: 28
Quoted from Hagrid

We do if Southgate uses them properly next summer
Ireland looked hopeless and have a very poor side


Could this be the reason we look to have strength in depth.
Posted by: Boris Johnson, November 13, 2020, 1:33pm; Reply: 29
This England side has the potential to be frightening....absolute quality all over the pitch ( apart perhaps from the GK)

hope we can put it together when really needed......
Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, November 13, 2020, 1:41pm; Reply: 30
Quoted from Boris Johnson
This England side has the potential to be frightening....absolute quality all over the pitch ( apart perhaps from the GK)

hope we can put it together when really needed......




Like Sunday and next Wednesday?

I’ll reserve judgement on the Southgate sequence dancers at least until then..

Posted by: ginnywings, November 13, 2020, 3:41pm; Reply: 31
Quoted from Boris Johnson
This England side has the potential to be frightening....absolute quality all over the pitch ( apart perhaps from the GK)

hope we can put it together when really needed......


Attack yes

Midfield possibly

Defence No, they are competent but no world class players in there.
Posted by: smokey111, November 13, 2020, 4:11pm; Reply: 32
Quoted from Boris Johnson
This England side has the potential to be frightening....absolute quality all over the pitch ( apart perhaps from the GK)

hope we can put it together when really needed......


No world class players at left back, centre half, gk or holding midfield will mean we will not be able to keep the goals out against the better teams. Our only chance would be to outscore them 'Keegan Newcastle' style.   3-2,   4-3,   4-2     etc.
Posted by: smokey111, November 13, 2020, 4:30pm; Reply: 33
Quoted from ginnywings


Attack yes

Midfield possibly

Defence No, they are competent but no world class players in there.


Reece James, Alexander-Arnold and Wan Bissaka would get in most top European teams.
Posted by: BobbyCummingsTackle, November 13, 2020, 4:32pm; Reply: 34
Quoted from Boris Johnson
This England side has the potential to be frightening....absolute quality all over the pitch ( apart perhaps from the GK)

hope we can put it together when really needed......


Results in recent competitive fixtures suggest otherwise. This team should be clobbering an average Ireland side in a friendly but it should also be able to take more than 1 point out of 6 against a workmanlike Denmark and not stutter to a narrow win over Iceland.

On paper we look very good but (as the old joke goes) you don't play football on paper.
Posted by: Abdul19, November 13, 2020, 5:27pm; Reply: 35
Quoted from smokey111


Reece James, Alexander-Arnold and Wan Bissaka would get in most top European teams.


Maybe one will sign him in January ;)
Posted by: BenBB, November 13, 2020, 8:25pm; Reply: 36
Watched Scotland win last night, was about as painful as watching town with them conceding in the 90th minute.

Looking forward to seeing England vs Scotland in the group rounds!
Posted by: Croxton, November 13, 2020, 8:39pm; Reply: 37
England U21's similar stats to Town. 86% possession, 11 shots, only 4 on target. Moldova, 1 shot, scores!
HT  1-1.
Posted by: promotion plaice, November 13, 2020, 8:55pm; Reply: 38
Quoted from Croxton
England U21's similar stats to Town. 86% possession, 11 shots, only 4 on target. Moldova, 1 shot, scores!
HT  1-1.

3-1 to England now.... :)

Posted by: Les Brechin, November 13, 2020, 9:15pm; Reply: 39
Quoted from Croxton
England U21's similar stats to Town. 86% possession, 11 shots, only 4 on target. Moldova, 1 shot, scores!
HT  1-1.


What game are you watching?  ;D
Posted by: promotion plaice, November 13, 2020, 9:20pm; Reply: 40

In other news:

Latest....Bolton 2-0 Salford
Posted by: Croxton, November 13, 2020, 10:02pm; Reply: 41
Quoted from Les Brechin


What game are you watching?  ;D


Ooops.   Must have the same optician as JT!
Posted by: Cambridgefish, November 14, 2020, 4:24pm; Reply: 42
Quoted from Heswall Mariner
Sad really - I always wanted the Scots to win but since Andy Murray etc made it clear that they wanted anyone to win apart from England in various games I now hope they get stuffed.xx


That's not what really happened. Look up what Tim Henman said about it - he was there

Posted by: Cambridgefish, November 14, 2020, 4:26pm; Reply: 43
[quote=2226]
FT....England 3-0 Ireland.

Never in doubt tbh....we really do have some strength in depth these days.

Helps when we nick Grealish and Rice off the Irish when they've both played for them before

Posted by: Cambridgefish, November 14, 2020, 4:31pm; Reply: 44
Quoted from jamesgtfc
Surely international travel should be halted whilst we get a grip on this, especially given the recent news about minks.


The news that all these diseases SARS, MERS, Bird Flu, Swine flu etc etc all occur because of the way we treat all creatures on the planet as if they were put here for us to use, abuse or eat? Or the fact that EU countries have 17 million mink to skin and make scarves from?

I'm starting to think we deserve it and nature  is getting her own back.
Posted by: Posh Harry, November 14, 2020, 4:31pm; Reply: 45
Quoted from Cambridgefish
[quote=2226]
FT....England 3-0 Ireland.

Never in doubt tbh....we really do have some strength in depth these days.

Helps when we nick Grealish and Rice off the Irish when they've both played for them before



Not sure we’re nicking anything when one was born in Birmingham and one in London. Looking at how bad the Irish were the other night, they made the right choice!
Posted by: Cambridgefish, November 14, 2020, 4:35pm; Reply: 46
Quoted from Boris Johnson
This England side has the potential to be frightening....absolute quality all over the pitch ( apart perhaps from the GK)

..


Although in three games against Iceland and Denmark they scored one goal which was a dodgy 91st minute penalty and were lucky to win. Against Iceland which has a population the same size as Nottingham

Posted by: Cambridgefish, November 14, 2020, 4:39pm; Reply: 47
Quoted from Posh Harry


Not sure we’re nicking anything when one was born in Birmingham and one in London. Looking at how bad the Irish were the other night, they made the right choice!


Ireland are definitely sh&*e. Just pointing out those two have played for Ireland before.

Posted by: Heisenberg, November 14, 2020, 4:46pm; Reply: 48
Quoted from Posh Harry


Not sure we’re nicking anything when one was born in Birmingham and one in London. Looking at how bad the Irish were the other night, they made the right choice!


If Ireland didn’t have a policy of searching for English and Scottish players with Irish heritage, they would have never qualified for ANY football tournament, ever. For once we’ve got two players who realise they were seduced by Ireland as kids, were told “you’ll never play for England, and think how disappointed your grandparents would be if you did”, and made a u-turn.
Posted by: Abdul19, November 14, 2020, 6:00pm; Reply: 49
Grealish never played a full international for Ireland though, just upto under 21s.
Posted by: HertsGTFC, November 14, 2020, 9:19pm; Reply: 50
They used to talk about the golden generation Beckham, Lampard, Scholes, Gerrard, Owen, Rooney, Terry, Rio, and the others but they where a squandered generation either by injuries or poor management appointments and decisions.

When you look at the talent Southgate has at his disposal it’s arguably better in terms of depth and technical skill. The other thing that seems to work is that he takes players from lots of different clubs so the scourge of the clique may not get in the way.

Also like Germany, Spain and France we now have a structure to develop players to be comfortable at international level.

Will we ever win anything? I think we’ve still got a fair way to go but who knows?
Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, November 14, 2020, 10:40pm; Reply: 51
Quoted from HertsGTFC
They used to talk about the golden generation Beckham, Lampard, Scholes, Gerrard, Owen, Rooney, Terry, Rio, and the others but they where a squandered generation either by injuries or poor management appointments and decisions.

When you look at the talent Southgate has at his disposal it’s arguably better in terms of depth and technical skill. The other thing that seems to work is that he takes players from lots of different clubs so the scourge of the clique may not get in the way.

Also like Germany, Spain and France we now have a structure to develop players to be comfortable at international level.

Will we ever win anything? I think we’ve still got a fair way to go but who knows?



They make cliques anyway. Look at Greenwood and Foden.
Posted by: mimma, November 14, 2020, 10:53pm; Reply: 52
We played Ireland without Kayne, Rashford and sterling.  Southgate is giving backup players experience in these games so if needed they will have some experience to call upon. The only games that count are the world cup and European cup games. That's when he will unleash our best lineup.
Posted by: HertsGTFC, November 15, 2020, 9:30am; Reply: 53



They make cliques anyway. Look at Greenwood and Foden.


They play for different clubs, so it’s not like all the Man U and Liverpool players isolating themselves from the rest, Jamie Redknapp talks about it in his book.
Posted by: smokey111, November 15, 2020, 9:39am; Reply: 54
Quoted from HertsGTFC


They play for different clubs, so it’s not like all the Man U and Liverpool players isolating themselves from the rest, Jamie Redknapp talks about it in his book.


Although I will watch tonight, there will be little to be learnt from the match as I doubt either side will field their strongest side. It will certainly lack the intensity of a meaningful qualifier or a European/World Cup game.
Posted by: smokey111, November 15, 2020, 9:40am; Reply: 55


Although I will watch tonight, there will be little to be learnt from the match as I doubt either side will field their strongest side. It will certainly lack the intensity of a European/World Cup match or a meaningful qualifier.

Posted by: Ipswin, November 15, 2020, 9:58am; Reply: 56
Quoted from HertsGTFC


When you look at the talent Southgate has at his disposal it’s arguably better in terms of depth and technical skill.



Not without Scoles, there is no one in the current squad in his class
Posted by: pen penfras, November 15, 2020, 10:24am; Reply: 57
Quoted from HertsGTFC
They used to talk about the golden generation Beckham, Lampard, Scholes, Gerrard, Owen, Rooney, Terry, Rio, and the others but they where a squandered generation either by injuries or poor management appointments and decisions.



How many in this squad would get into that team? Maybe Kane and Sterling. It's nowhere near as strong. The core of that team was incredible, but they never produced in the big games.
Posted by: golfer, November 15, 2020, 10:34am; Reply: 58
Quoted from Cambridgefish


The news that all these diseases SARS, MERS, Bird Flu, Swine flu etc etc all occur because of the way we treat all creatures on the planet as if they were put here for us to use, abuse or eat? Or the fact that EU countries have 17 million mink to skin and make scarves from?

I'm starting to think we deserve it and nature  is getting her own back.


I thought there was a ban on fur - there should be
Posted by: HertsGTFC, November 15, 2020, 11:07am; Reply: 59
Quoted from Ipswin


Not without Scoles, there is no one in the current squad in his class


That’s a fair call.
Posted by: golfer, November 15, 2020, 11:47am; Reply: 60
Might be in the bookies
Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, November 15, 2020, 12:01pm; Reply: 61
It isn't the super dribblers and flash 'arry players you want, it's ones who can do a job within a plan. That was how Robson and Venables incorporated Gazza, by having a side to do the dirty work and let him be the one to play.  The Golden Generation never had a manager with a proper plan and several of those players could only fit in one position and were never in the same street as Gazza.

I remember the clamour for Beckham to be played as a "quarterback" for instance and he was played there (not at ManU though) until it was obvious the was a one trick pony - right foot diagonal bang over 40 yards. Opposition used to snuff him out in no time. Same with Gerrard who was touted as midfield general but his idea of that was a big wallop down the channel. He was able to run with the ball and beat the odd player when he got steam up, more than Beckham could.

Scholes was played on the left wing! Say no more about the cluelessness of it.
Posted by: Knut Anders Fosters Voles, November 15, 2020, 2:07pm; Reply: 62
Quoted from pen penfras


How many in this squad would get into that team? Maybe Kane and Sterling. It's nowhere near as strong. The core of that team was incredible, but they never produced in the big games.



Due to the prevalence of 4-3-3 or its variants, I would probably take Sancho, Kane, Sterling and Rashford over Owen, Heskey, Trevor Sinclair, Fowler. Heskey was a decent player but the current four would clearly be an upgrade. Fowler wouldn’t survive in modern football and his legs had gone by 2002 anyway.

I know Owen won the Ballon d’Or in 2001 but in modern football, he couldn’t play wide and would struggle upfront on his own.

TAA, James and Kyle Walker would be a clear improvement on Danny Mills. A fit Gary Neville would supply some much needed defensive nous in the current squad.
Posted by: moosey_club, November 15, 2020, 6:07pm; Reply: 63
Same old will happen, flatter to deceive in meaningless games, romp through the seeded stages and as soon as we meet decent opposition without the safety net of seeding we struggle and eventually fail.

Managers pick superstar players , not the players to suit the best system , Sir Alf had players in to do specific roles that they were good at, not shoe horned in to avoid getting flak for dropping them like just about every other manager has done since.

Look around the Premiership now....are the best players English ?  pick your way through the positions and think even in the Premier League, our top division , is the best keeper English ?  right back, left back...etc etc....i would think you would struggle to come up with 3 or 4 that are the best in our own back yard, thats without considering the rest of the world.

Posted by: pen penfras, November 15, 2020, 6:19pm; Reply: 64



Due to the prevalence of 4-3-3 or its variants, I would probably take Sancho, Kane, Sterling and Rashford over Owen, Heskey, Trevor Sinclair, Fowler. Heskey was a decent player but the current four would clearly be an upgrade. Fowler wouldn’t survive in modern football and his legs had gone by 2002 anyway.

I know Owen won the Ballon d’Or in 2001 but in modern football, he couldn’t play wide and would struggle upfront on his own.

TAA, James and Kyle Walker would be a clear improvement on Danny Mills. A fit Gary Neville would supply some much needed defensive nous in the current squad.


But you're picking the less impressive players from that era and comparing them to the best from this era.

Terry, Ferdinand, Cole, Neville, Campbell, King and Woodgate were all superior to our current defenders. TAA seems the only real world class defender we have right now, and he's almost a winger the way Liverpool play.

Gerrard, Lampard, Beckham, Scholes and Hargreaves could build a fantastic midfield. Again, there's not many real world class midfielders to choose from at the moment.

Owen, Rooney and Joe Cole could make a decent front three although I'll agree that the current choice for that formation is much better.

Still, the current squad is nowhere near as talented as what Sven had to pick from. We massively underperformed in that era.
Posted by: promotion plaice, November 15, 2020, 7:02pm; Reply: 65

Belgium vs England

England starting XI: Pickford, Walker, Trippier, Mings, Dier, Chilwell, Rice, Henderson, Mount, Grealish, Kane.
Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, November 15, 2020, 8:36pm; Reply: 66



Due to the prevalence of 4-3-3 or its variants, I would probably take Sancho, Kane, Sterling and Rashford over Owen, Heskey, Trevor Sinclair, Fowler. Heskey was a decent player but the current four would clearly be an upgrade. Fowler wouldn’t survive in modern football and his legs had gone by 2002 anyway.

I know Owen won the Ballon d’Or in 2001 but in modern football, he couldn’t play wide and would struggle upfront on his own.

TAA, James and Kyle Walker would be a clear improvement on Danny Mills. A fit Gary Neville would supply some much needed defensive nous in the current squad.


Owen was another example of bad management. He needed a team to play in that would build moves to set him free or 1 on 1 with the last defender.

Heskey was a worker and target man. He was not expected to score many and he didn’t disappoint. So much so that opponents could leave him with an open goal and set themselves for the goal kick to come. ;)



Belgium 2 England 0 so far.

Just waiting for the “well they are number one in the world” posts! ;D
Posted by: promotion plaice, November 15, 2020, 8:40pm; Reply: 67
Belgium 2 England 0 so far.

Just waiting for the “well they are number one in the world” posts! ;D

I think the scoreline has flattered Belgium tbh, could easily have been 2-2 at HT

Posted by: Heswall Mariner, November 15, 2020, 8:51pm; Reply: 68
Never been sure about Dier - what is so special about him to make him an automatic choice for England?  
Posted by: buckstown, November 15, 2020, 8:57pm; Reply: 69
Quoted from Heswall Mariner
Never been sure about Dier - what is so special about him to make him an automatic choice for England?  


Not sure he’s an automatic choice for Spurs, never mind England
Posted by: promotion plaice, November 15, 2020, 9:04pm; Reply: 70

Shame we haven't got someone that can take a free-kick tonight and work the keeper.

Grealish does impress me more every time I see him, makes things happen.
Posted by: supertown, November 15, 2020, 9:15pm; Reply: 71
England are playing ok, unlucky to be 2 down . Grealish is quality
Posted by: promotion plaice, November 15, 2020, 9:40pm; Reply: 72

FT....Belgium 2-0 England

Scoreline a bit harsh on us, Grealish our best player tonight by a country mile.



Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, November 15, 2020, 9:51pm; Reply: 73
Quoted from promotion plaice

FT....Belgium 2-0 England

Scoreline a bit harsh on us, Grealish our best player tonight by a country mile.





It is not harsh at all PP, last 2 games in the competition, scored 0 conceded 3. I don’t care how well they keep possession and look good, the fact is that once again in a competition they fall short. Learn how to win is what Southgate needs to do and fast.

Posted by: ginnywings, November 15, 2020, 9:59pm; Reply: 74
We were arguably the better side. Unfortunately, Belgium were better at the important stuff, namely scoring and defending. We always fall short at the final hurdle.
Posted by: Abdul19, November 15, 2020, 10:09pm; Reply: 75
Played some nice stuff but Courtois had absolutely nothing to do.
Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, November 15, 2020, 10:24pm; Reply: 76
Quoted from ginnywings
We were arguably the better side. Unfortunately, Belgium were better at the important stuff, namely scoring and defending. We always fall short at the final hurdle.


Ergo we were not the better side. Ginny. Those funny things with the nets on are there for a reason. We stop them putting the ball in there and we put the ball in at the other end. All the rest is just gloss.

Posted by: ginnywings, November 15, 2020, 10:34pm; Reply: 77


Ergo we were not the better side. Ginny. Those funny things with the nets on are there for a reason. We stop them putting the ball in there and we put the ball in at the other end. All the rest is just gloss.



I did say arguably.
Posted by: moosey_club, November 15, 2020, 10:37pm; Reply: 78


Ergo we were not the better side. Ginny. Those funny things with the nets on are there for a reason. We stop them putting the ball in there and we put the ball in at the other end. All the rest is just gloss.



Were Town playing tonight ?   ;)
Posted by: diehardmariner, November 16, 2020, 10:37am; Reply: 79
Same old problem wasn't it really?

A lot of nice play in non-dangerous areas but absolute no killer instinct and sloppiness at the back cost us.  It really was a bit like watching Town!

Grealish without a doubt has played himself into the starting eleven.  Wasn't a fan until a few months back, even last season I wasn't buying in and thought he was show pony.  But he's our only real trump card we've got, someone who's a bit different.  In attack Kane is quality, I don't like how he's become a diver but his ability can't be questioned.  Problem is that he's a marked man.  In the wider areas the likes of Sterling, Sancho, Rashford etc. are all great.  But they're very similar.  Grealish is different.  He's an enigma and in some respects a thrown-back to a proper maverick type.  

Somehow Southgate has to figure out how he can fit him into the side.  I much prefer him coming in off the left but competition is hot there.  Where we don't have any competition or quality is in central midfield.  A lot of toilers but no cutting edge.  Henderson is the only one in there who I think merits a place.  Mount, Rice, Winks....all much about muchness for me.   If you've got Henderson holding, you can afford a more attack minded player in there.  Personally would like to see a front 4 of Grealish, Sterling, Rashford and Kane.  

Don't want to see Eric Dier in an England shirt again though.  Absolute liability and every game gives something away.  I know we're not blessed with rows of talent at centre-back but he's a long way off the best of that bunch in my opinion.
Posted by: horsforthmariner, November 16, 2020, 10:39am; Reply: 80
Thought we played well tonight. Unlucky to lose. Grealish is quality. Though Saka looked good when he came on.

One thought was that we really missed Sterling tonight. A front 3 of Grealish, Kane and Sterling would be an absolute nightmare to face.

I worry about our defence, although Walker played well, not sure Dier will ever be an international Centre Half. Not sure we need both Rice and Henderson. We were better when Henderson came off.
Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, November 16, 2020, 11:22am; Reply: 81
Quoted from horsforthmariner
Thought we played well tonight. Unlucky to lose. Grealish is quality. Though Saka looked good when he came on.

One thought was that we really missed Sterling tonight. A front 3 of Grealish, Kane and Sterling would be an absolute nightmare to face.

I worry about our defence, although Walker played well, not sure Dier will ever be an international Centre Half. Not sure we need both Rice and Henderson. We were better when Henderson came off.


Created nothing, scored nothing.

It does not matter how much possession you have or how good you look with it, it's what you do with it that wins and loses games. England under Southgate are a team of pretty pretty fancy players with no bite and no idea how to be winners.

Posted by: diehardmariner, November 16, 2020, 11:59am; Reply: 82
That last point is really interesting.  It's the under Southgate thing.  Because that squad is full of natural winners in my opinion.

Natural winners with lots of cutting edge.  Rashford, Kane, Sancho, Sterling, Grealish....all players capable of producing something from nothing and putting teams to the sword.  I think you can probably add Calvert-Lewin in there at the minute.  Appreciate one is on the naughty step and the other has just come off it but Foden and Greenwood too.

But in the last 12 months Southgate has reverted to type and gone very negative and defensive in his approach.  There's an embarrassment of attacking riches at his disposal but, as with many who have gone before him, he seems petrified of sending a side out to really go at teams.
Posted by: Boris Johnson, November 16, 2020, 11:59am; Reply: 83
Grealish is ace isnt he....really like watching him play, seldom gives it away, a real talent.

Will be at the forefront of our drive towards European and World Glory
Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, November 16, 2020, 12:50pm; Reply: 84
Quoted from diehardmariner
That last point is really interesting.  It's the under Southgate thing.  Because that squad is full of natural winners in my opinion.

Natural winners with lots of cutting edge.  Rashford, Kane, Sancho, Sterling, Grealish....all players capable of producing something from nothing and putting teams to the sword.  I think you can probably add Calvert-Lewin in there at the minute.  Appreciate one is on the naughty step and the other has just come off it but Foden and Greenwood too.

But in the last 12 months Southgate has reverted to type and gone very negative and defensive in his approach.  There's an embarrassment of attacking riches at his disposal but, as with many who have gone before him, he seems petrified of sending a side out to really go at teams.


There are some worth the benefit of the doubt but how does Southgate manage to hang on to his job? If it was still Big Sam and we had the same results the knives would be out on here and in the media.

“Long ball rubbish, we need a passing game, patient build up to suit these players who are used to being surrounded by foreigners in the PL.” That is sort of criticism we would see. But Southgate clearly has friends in high places, he is intelligent, a good organiser and dresses well but as a coach/manager he is simply not up to this job.

One of his ex-players at Boro, Mido, said as much this morning. Mind you I didn’t agree with his solution of appointing Mourinho.

Posted by: golfer, November 16, 2020, 1:08pm; Reply: 85
I have never seen Dier do anything .Don't think he would even be an improvement in Town's team. £130000 a week
Posted by: Les Brechin, November 16, 2020, 1:11pm; Reply: 86
Quoted from golfer
I have never seen Dier do anything .Don't think he would even be an improvement in Town's team. £130000 a week


Dier by name, dire by nature.  ;D
Posted by: diehardmariner, November 16, 2020, 3:07pm; Reply: 87


There are some worth the benefit of the doubt but how does Southgate manage to hang on to his job? If it was still Big Sam and we had the same results the knives would be out on here and in the media.

“Long ball rubbish, we need a passing game, patient build up to suit these players who are used to being surrounded by foreigners in the PL.” That is sort of criticism we would see. But Southgate clearly has friends in high places, he is intelligent, a good organiser and dresses well but as a coach/manager he is simply not up to this job.

One of his ex-players at Boro, Mido, said as much this morning. Mind you I didn’t agree with his solution of appointing Mourinho.



I personally think you can only really judge the England manager on either the Euros or the World Cup (or the qualification for such).  As much as I enjoyed the original Nations League, it's still a glorified friendly - especially when the carrot of qualification doesn't really mean a lot for teams who will qualify anyway.

Of Southgate's one tournament, we exceeded expectations massively.  You could argue we were fortunate with the drawer but some could also argue unfortunate to go out in the manner we did.  Either way, if you had offered a semi final place 2 years ago, most English folk would have bit your hand off.

A year ago I was full of optimism going into the Euro 2020 run-in.  I really felt that we had enough quality to be genuine contenders.  In the following year the likes of Greenwood and Foden have emerged along with players like Alexander-Arnold, Rashford and Sancho growing in their game.  Added to this is the later development and elevation to the squad of the likes of Coady, Ings and then Grealish.  On paper alone we're stronger than ever.

Southgate needs to find a system and style that takes us into next summer, one that isn't reliant on packing the team with defensive minded players.
Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, November 16, 2020, 3:31pm; Reply: 88
Quoted from diehardmariner


I personally think you can only really judge the England manager on either the Euros or the World Cup (or the qualification for such).  As much as I enjoyed the original Nations League, it's still a glorified friendly - especially when the carrot of qualification doesn't really mean a lot for teams who will qualify anyway.

Of Southgate's one tournament, we exceeded expectations massively.  You could argue we were fortunate with the drawer but some could also argue unfortunate to go out in the manner we did.  Either way, if you had offered a semi final place 2 years ago, most English folk would have bit your hand off.

A year ago I was full of optimism going into the Euro 2020 run-in.  I really felt that we had enough quality to be genuine contenders.  In the following year the likes of Greenwood and Foden have emerged along with players like Alexander-Arnold, Rashford and Sancho growing in their game.  Added to this is the later development and elevation to the squad of the likes of Coady, Ings and then Grealish.  On paper alone we're stronger than ever.

Southgate needs to find a system and style that takes us into next summer, one that isn't reliant on packing the team with defensive minded players.


Maybe so but people were doubting Big Sam even before his first game and they certainly doubted Roy Hodgson before he got to a tournament. Why should Southgate be any different? He talks a good game and seems to have some fans amongst the sports writers, that's for sure.

He did well by bringing in kids he had worked with in the youth set up but he failed to develop them any further into a unit. He has shown an inability to work out a positive way of playing that puts pressure on opponents and allows his side to use their youth and athleticism to best effect. Worst of all, when things do go wrong he looks clueless and his substitutions are dire (pardon the pun).

I don't think it matters whether he packs the side with 10 strikers or 10 full backs, it is his negativity that will fail the side not his selections.

Posted by: Rodley Mariner, November 16, 2020, 4:28pm; Reply: 89
The negativity seems to have crept in recently as he tries to find a way to compensate for having a lack of top class centre backs. The balance doesn't seem right and we missed pace up top last night. I don't think we've been negative throughout his tenure though. We've scored bags of goals and made lots of chances at times. A bit more clinical in that World Cup Semi final and we'd have been out of sight but we took the game to them and got behind them repeatedly. I hope he's just trying to find a formula for the Euros but we do seem to have regressed a bit.
Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, November 16, 2020, 5:31pm; Reply: 90
Quoted from Rodley Mariner
The negativity seems to have crept in recently as he tries to find a way to compensate for having a lack of top class centre backs. The balance doesn't seem right and we missed pace up top last night. I don't think we've been negative throughout his tenure though. We've scored bags of goals and made lots of chances at times. A bit more clinical in that World Cup Semi final and we'd have been out of sight but we took the game to them and got behind them repeatedly. I hope he's just trying to find a formula for the Euros but we do seem to have regressed a bit.



I go along with that very largely Rodley . I am not anti-Southgate for the sake of it, I am pro-England and pro getting the best side to play winning football when and where it matters. The biggest disappointment yesterday and against Denmark is that for all the possession we very rarely put them under pressure and looking worried. It was a nice easy night for Belgium to sit back on a two goal lead in a thoroughly professional manner. What sort of a mess would we have made of a 2 goal lead and sitting back on it? I don’t think it’s about ability it’s about attitudes and manner of playing, even body language comes into it.. As you say tip tap negativity has maybe crept in because he can’t think of anything else to do with a lack of defenders. But a positive attitude could still have got us a draw or even a win.

Posted by: horsforthmariner, November 16, 2020, 6:21pm; Reply: 91


Created nothing, scored nothing.

It does not matter how much possession you have or how good you look with it, it's what you do with it that wins and loses games. England under Southgate are a team of pretty pretty fancy players with no bite and no idea how to be winners.



Kane had one cleared off the line, Mount put one over the bar from close range, Kane had another good chance in the second half. We fluffed a couple of good free kick opportunities.
Posted by: Knut Anders Fosters Voles, November 16, 2020, 7:34pm; Reply: 92
Whatever you think of the FIFA rankings, Belgium are top and are fortunate to have, by far and away, the best midfielder in the world.

Denmark are ranked 13th, and whilst they are a rather dour, hard-working side, just look at their results over the past few years. Other than losing to Belgium, their recent record, which are mostly competitive qualifiers or tournament matches reads:

England - W, D
Iceland - W, D
Sweden - W
Switzerland - W, D
France - D
Peru - W
Mexico - W

Denmark were only knocked out of the WC by eventual finalists, and conquerors of England, Croatia.

International football is generally stodgy once anyone in the top 20 of the rankings plays one another. Outside of major tournaments, the coaching team have very little contact time with players and matches are often decided by small margins, such as one rare moment of brilliance or one mistake.

International teams that win tournaments are good defensively (Portugal 2016, France 2018) and / or possession based and able to take the sting out of a game (Germany 2014, Spain 2012 etc).

Unfortunately, England’s defensive unit is average and, whilst ball retention has improved, it is usually sterile and weak under a high or medium press.

It would be high risk, but surely Mount, Foden or Grealish in a deeper role must be worth a try, even if Grealish in particular is tactically indisciplined. Football may have changed, but England’s midfield in Euro 96 was McManaman, Anderton, Platt, Gascoigne and Ince. Only one of those is defensive.  

England desperately need someone in deeper areas, who can receive the ball on the half turn and beat the press. Kalvin Phillips offers some hope but is injured and very inexperienced at the highest level.

I know Eriksen is out of form and Modrić is knocking on, but if one of those, or KDB or Thiago were English, the difference in England performances would be huge, regardless of the defensive weaknesses.

Southgate will be well aware that we can thrash mid-ranking European sides that Ireland, Montenegro, Bulgaria but he is obviously trying to find a away to improve against the top sides. Unfortunately, we will never win a tournament with that defensive unit and midfield.
Posted by: Lincoln Mariner 56, November 16, 2020, 7:51pm; Reply: 93
Like clubs all countries have to play with injuries and suspensions but our best front three is Sterling, Kane and Rashford. To that we can now add Grealish and if fully fit we could have Alexander Arnold and Chilwell who are both great attacking full backs and on last nights performance one of my big criticisms was the poor quality of crosses and forward balls from the right hand side, plus Alexander Arnold is also an excellent free kick specialist so a major plus given how we wasted these opportunities last night.

Always the same with England that not long ago we had Terry, King, Ferdinand and Campbell as centre back options now that’s our area of vulnerability hence Southgate’s current decision to play with 3 at the back. I would put Henderson and Rice in midfield Maguire and Mingus ( naturally left footed so gives us better balance) and the aforementioned forwards and full backs and let them play. Might be Keeganesque in scoring more than the opposition but think it would be a team well worth watching.
Posted by: Meza, November 16, 2020, 8:03pm; Reply: 94
This would be my team vs Iceland

Normally Sterling but thought i'd give Saka a go.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/7bZINKd.jpg[/img]
Posted by: Lincoln Mariner 56, November 16, 2020, 8:25pm; Reply: 95
So far don’t get the hype re Sancho and thought Hudson Odoi looked a far better prospect but appears his off the field issues are going to disrupt his progress. Would also like to see Maddison get a go as feel he can play through the lines for Sterling & Rashford in particular to get on the end of.
Posted by: Knut Anders Fosters Voles, November 16, 2020, 8:37pm; Reply: 96
Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56
So far don’t get the hype re Sancho and thought Hudson Odoi looked a far better prospect but appears his off the field issues are going to disrupt his progress. Would also like to see Maddison get a go as feel he can play through the lines for Sterling & Rashford in particular to get on the end of.



Talent wise, James Maddison should walk into that squad but by all accounts he is a complete and utter moron. For non-footballing reasons, it’s either Grealish or Maddison in the squad, not both.
Posted by: diehardmariner, November 17, 2020, 9:51am; Reply: 97
Whatever you think of the FIFA rankings, Belgium are top and are fortunate to have, by far and away, the best midfielder in the world.

Denmark are ranked 13th, and whilst they are a rather dour, hard-working side, just look at their results over the past few years. Other than losing to Belgium, their recent record, which are mostly competitive qualifiers or tournament matches reads:

England - W, D
Iceland - W, D
Sweden - W
Switzerland - W, D
France - D
Peru - W
Mexico - W

Denmark were only knocked out of the WC by eventual finalists, and conquerors of England, Croatia.

International football is generally stodgy once anyone in the top 20 of the rankings plays one another. Outside of major tournaments, the coaching team have very little contact time with players and matches are often decided by small margins, such as one rare moment of brilliance or one mistake.

International teams that win tournaments are good defensively (Portugal 2016, France 2018) and / or possession based and able to take the sting out of a game (Germany 2014, Spain 2012 etc).

Unfortunately, England’s defensive unit is average and, whilst ball retention has improved, it is usually sterile and weak under a high or medium press.

It would be high risk, but surely Mount, Foden or Grealish in a deeper role must be worth a try, even if Grealish in particular is tactically indisciplined. Football may have changed, but England’s midfield in Euro 96 was McManaman, Anderton, Platt, Gascoigne and Ince. Only one of those is defensive.  

England desperately need someone in deeper areas, who can receive the ball on the half turn and beat the press. Kalvin Phillips offers some hope but is injured and very inexperienced at the highest level.

I know Eriksen is out of form and Modrić is knocking on, but if one of those, or KDB or Thiago were English, the difference in England performances would be huge, regardless of the defensive weaknesses.

Southgate will be well aware that we can thrash mid-ranking European sides that Ireland, Montenegro, Bulgaria but he is obviously trying to find a away to improve against the top sides. Unfortunately, we will never win a tournament with that defensive unit and midfield.


Great post.  Definitely agree that it needs someone like Grealish or Foden operating from central midfield.   Back end of last season, more so after the enforced break, there was a lot about Grealish going from a No 8 at Villa to playing on the left as part of a front three.  I believe this was partly because in the No. 8 role he tried to do everything and lack any sense of discipline to do it effectively.  Certainly more effective for Villa in that wide left role but you could argue that with better players for England he'd be less inclined to try/feel he has to do it all himself.  

It's not quite a like-for-like comparison but he reminds me of Scott Neilson when he was here.  A real enigma who can change the game in a flash.  Almost wasted in a wide role but not disciplined enough for a central position.  Of course I think it's fair to say Grealish's work-rate and other attributes absolutely strip those of Neilson, it's more the positional dilemma I'm referring to.

Posted by: promotion plaice, November 18, 2020, 7:22pm; Reply: 98

19:45    England vs Iceland

I know it's a dead rubber game tonight but I think I'll still give it a watch.


England lineup: Pickford, Walker, Dier, Maguire; Trippier, Rice, Foden, Saka; Grealish, Kane, Mount

Subs: Henderson, Pope, Keane, Mings, Chilwell, Maitland-Niles, Winks, Calvert-Lewin, Abraham, Bellingham
Posted by: promotion plaice, November 18, 2020, 8:40pm; Reply: 99

HT.....England 2-0 Iceland

England dominating the game, Iceland look poor.


HT.....Israel 1-0 Scotland   8)
Posted by: HertsGTFC, November 18, 2020, 8:43pm; Reply: 100
Quoted from Meza
This would be my team vs Iceland

Normally Sterling but thought i'd give Saka a go.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/7bZINKd.jpg[/img]


Though Ireland where poor I thought Winks played well against them and is unlucky not to be included in what’s a dead rubba tonight
Posted by: grimsby pete, November 18, 2020, 8:49pm; Reply: 101
Should have scored more than two goals against a poor Iceland side.

I expect a few more goals in the 2nd half.

Impressed with Grealish.
Posted by: Rodley Mariner, November 18, 2020, 8:54pm; Reply: 102
They are poor and it's a dead game but at least England are playing with some purpose and trying to move the ball quickly.
Posted by: Meza, November 18, 2020, 9:09pm; Reply: 103
could we still finish 2nd on goal difference?

or is it the top team is the only one the qualifies, i dont know much how this nations league works.
Posted by: Rodley Mariner, November 18, 2020, 9:15pm; Reply: 104
Only top qualifies. We're out.
Posted by: promotion plaice, November 18, 2020, 9:46pm; Reply: 105

I see Scotland missed out on Nations League promotion tonight by losing to Isreal   ;D
Posted by: grimsby pete, November 18, 2020, 10:00pm; Reply: 106
Southgate so defensive 5 subs in 2nd half playing against a poor side with ten men and 3 of his subs are defenders.

Win 4-0 but could have been a lot more with a different mindset .
Posted by: NorfolkImp, November 19, 2020, 1:05pm; Reply: 107
Good to see Foden & Grealish the stand out players ....... no doubt both will be benched when the Tournament starts next summer (confused1)
Posted by: Knut Anders Fosters Voles, November 19, 2020, 7:00pm; Reply: 108
Quoted from grimsby pete
Southgate so defensive 5 subs in 2nd half playing against a poor side with ten men and 3 of his subs are defenders.

Win 4-0 but could have been a lot more with a different mindset .



I don’t like to disagree with you Pete but I’m going to have to on this one. I still think you’re great though.

Sterling, Rashford, Ings and Greenwood were all out injured. The only true attackers on the bench were DCL and Tammy Abraham and you would never play both of those two upfront together.

As for the subs:

Abraham replaced Kane - like for like
AM-Niles replaced Trippier - AMN arguably more attacking
Sancho replaced Grealish - Sancho arguably more attacking
Mings replaced Walker - Walker was on a YC

So it only really leaves:
Winks subbing on for Mount as the only ‘defensive’ sub

The unused subs were all defenders or goalkeepers (other than Bellingham - 17 y/o defensive midfielder, and the aforementioned DCL) as the squad was imbalanced due to all of the withdrawals

Posted by: NorthseaMariner, November 19, 2020, 7:37pm; Reply: 109
Crikey, didn’t even know we were playing, never saw anything about it until now. Says it all
Posted by: KingstonMariner, November 19, 2020, 8:11pm; Reply: 110
Quoted from NorthseaMariner
Crikey, didn’t even know we were playing, never saw anything about it until now. Says it all


I’m with you on that. I also look at that list of squad names and think ‘who?’ Probably comes of not watching any premier league games. And all these new formats for between tournaments I just shrug my shoulders and forget about it.
Posted by: Heswall Mariner, November 19, 2020, 8:59pm; Reply: 111
Totally agree this Nations League is a pointless overkill - who really cares, its like the FL Trophy.
We have the Euros & the World Cup qualifier weeks that already screw my my weekends.
Posted by: promotion plaice, November 20, 2020, 6:47pm; Reply: 112

I see the Ireland manager is fighting for his job and it's not all about their poor form.

It's been revealed he showed his players an anti-British 'propaganda' video featuring the 1916 Easter Rising and the Great Famine before the match with England at Wembley.

In a statement, the FAI said: “The Football Association of Ireland is aware of issues surrounding content shared with our senior men’s team ahead of the recent friendly against England at Wembley Stadium. The FAI is already looking into this matter internally as a matter of urgency to establish the facts. The FAI has no further comment to make at this time.”


Posted by: Knut Anders Fosters Voles, November 20, 2020, 7:07pm; Reply: 113
Quoted from promotion plaice

I see the Ireland manager is fighting for his job and it's not all about their poor form.

It's been revealed he showed his players an anti-British 'propaganda' video featuring the 1916 Easter Rising and the Great Famine before the match with England at Wembley.

In a statement, the FAI said: “The Football Association of Ireland is aware of issues surrounding content shared with our senior men’s team ahead of the recent friendly against England at Wembley Stadium. The FAI is already looking into this matter internally as a matter of urgency to establish the facts. The FAI has no further comment to make at this time.”





It seems slightly odd behaviour when one third of the Ireland squad were born and brought up in England
Posted by: Posh Harry, November 21, 2020, 3:28pm; Reply: 114



It seems slightly odd behaviour when one third of the Ireland squad were born and brought up in England


It wouldn’t surprise me if it wasn’t one of them that dobbed him in. To be honest, most of their players seemed completely disinterested in the game and this could be part of the reason why. Sounds like it is going to backfire big style as I wouldn’t be surprised if it costs him his job.
Posted by: Gaffer58, November 21, 2020, 3:39pm; Reply: 115
So would it be perceived as a racial insult?
Posted by: toontown, November 21, 2020, 4:02pm; Reply: 116
Quoted from Gaffer58
So would it be perceived as a racial insult?


Well it absolutely would be if the roles were reversed. In fact he would have had to resign as soon as the story broke and it would be front page headlines.
Print page generated: March 28, 2024, 12:03pm