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Posted by: KingstonMariner, September 26, 2020, 9:42pm
I’m beginning to like the cut of his jib.

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/government-premier-league-efl-crisis-4551102.amp
Posted by: marinerdazza, September 26, 2020, 9:49pm; Reply: 1
Yep, it’s a peach of an article.
Posted by: GrimRob, September 26, 2020, 9:55pm; Reply: 2
Great read. Agree with every word.
Posted by: HarrogateMariner, September 26, 2020, 10:32pm; Reply: 3
Completely agree,  great article.
Posted by: Sammo, September 26, 2020, 10:45pm; Reply: 4
Great article, agree with every point made.
Posted by: Northbank Mariner, September 27, 2020, 7:18am; Reply: 5
He's absolutely nailed it there, great article.
Posted by: WesternMariner, September 27, 2020, 10:51am; Reply: 6
Well said indeed. I clearly wasn’t the only one to think that the photo-op of Boris and “our” MP’s was in spectacularly bad taste with things as they are. I know Martin Vickers does attend matches, I’m fairly sure Ms Nici doesn’t. She has the excuse of not knowing what the football club means to us lot. He at least should know better.
Posted by: realist, September 27, 2020, 10:51am; Reply: 7
I appear to be the odd one out - I didnt agree with most of it.

The situation GTFC are in at the moment cancelling games is down to their own stupidity - allowing someone to enter and leave their "bubble" who was also "bubbbling" away from home so to speak was asking for trouble.

Even if we had a government that had done everything correctly we would still face a massive realignment in consumerism and jobs, Football is probably way down the list of importance, as it should be as the basics of our society are at risk. Just because the EFL is not up to it, it is footballs, and only footballs problem. Remember the club chairmen were happy to attend EFL meetings in exotic locations and support the EFL so they are as much responsible
Posted by: pen penfras, September 27, 2020, 11:00am; Reply: 8
Quoted from realist
I appear to be the odd one out - I didnt agree with most of it.

The situation GTFC are in at the moment cancelling games is down to their own stupidity - allowing someone to enter and leave their "bubble" who was also "bubbbling" away from home so to speak was asking for trouble.

Even if we had a government that had done everything correctly we would still face a massive realignment in consumerism and jobs, Football is probably way down the list of importance, as it should be as the basics of our society are at risk. Just because the EFL is not up to it, it is footballs, and only footballs problem. Remember the club chairmen were happy to attend EFL meetings in exotic locations and support the EFL so they are as much responsible


So we should restrict our young players' opportunities by not allowing them to play competitive football which will aid their development, or not allow them to train like a full time pro?

The problem is, the EFL is supposed to represent it's members and do what's best for them, ie the clubs. Do you think pushing football with no income was what the clubs wanted? Do you think wishy washy advice, that clearly isn't being interpreted or followed the same by everybody is what the clubs wanted? Were clubs even asked what they wanted?
Posted by: HertsGTFC, September 27, 2020, 11:43am; Reply: 9
Quoted from WesternMariner
Well said indeed. I clearly wasn’t the only one to think that the photo-op of Boris and “our” MP’s was in spectacularly bad taste with things as they are. I know Martin Vickers does attend matches, I’m fairly sure Ms Nici doesn’t. She has the excuse of not knowing what the football club means to us lot. He at least should know better.


Culture secretary on TV this morning pushed the issue on the Prem, couldn’t give detail on the science behind not allowing people back.

Said they’d done loads for clubs with furlough and rates relief etc... all he really could give as an explanation was “not the right time”.

Andrew Marr used the model Germany is using but clearly once again we’re miles behind our teutonic cousins, again posh boy didn’t have an answer or credible alternative.

The MP then talked about the Prem “relying on the EFL to bring up grass routes talents” which indicates he knows f**k all as that league is full of imports from abroad.

I clearly believe that not allowing fans back to football (and other sport) is a mix of political positioning, having no solution and in reality not giving a sh1t about something that’s important to the fabric of so many communities.

All we see is the MP for Grimsby presenting the head of her Party with a Town shirt...... whatever happened to back bench politicians lobbying for the people they represent?
Posted by: Boris Johnson, September 27, 2020, 11:43am; Reply: 10
Quoted from realist
I appear to be the odd one out - I didnt agree with most of it.

The situation GTFC are in at the moment cancelling games is down to their own stupidity - allowing someone to enter and leave their "bubble" who was also "bubbbling" away from home so to speak was asking for trouble.

Even if we had a government that had done everything correctly we would still face a massive realignment in consumerism and jobs, Football is probably way down the list of importance, as it should be as the basics of our society are at risk. Just because the EFL is not up to it, it is footballs, and only footballs problem. Remember the club chairmen were happy to attend EFL meetings in exotic locations and support the EFL so they are as much responsible


I agree, Findlater hasnt got a clue what he is talking about
Posted by: ginnywings, September 27, 2020, 11:59am; Reply: 11
Must be tiring to be always swimming against the tide Boris.
Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, September 27, 2020, 1:23pm; Reply: 12
Quoted from realist
I appear to be the odd one out - I didnt agree with most of it.

The situation GTFC are in at the moment cancelling games is down to their own stupidity - allowing someone to enter and leave their "bubble" who was also "bubbbling" away from home so to speak was asking for trouble.

Even if we had a government that had done everything correctly we would still face a massive realignment in consumerism and jobs, Football is probably way down the list of importance, as it should be as the basics of our society are at risk. Just because the EFL is not up to it, it is footballs, and only footballs problem. Remember the club chairmen were happy to attend EFL meetings in exotic locations and support the EFL so they are as much responsible


I think the problem with Findlaters article is that it offers no solutions, probably because there aren't any solutions.Whichever covid road you decide to travel, there are huge problems.

Let fans in we have logistical problems and problems associated with wider communities with lockdown restrictions. Keep fans out, it is a money problem.

I think we have just been unlucky; it could and will happen to a lot of clubs that a player or a manager or groundstaff test positive and every time there is a case it will be different at different clubs and how they deal with it, so whatever decision any club comes up with they will be criticised. It is difficult for the EFL to make rules that apertain to every situation.

We just need keep our minds focused on the football as we don't want to be faced with a nightmare season on the pitch as well as off it.
Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, September 27, 2020, 3:13pm; Reply: 13
James Findlater is very good at taking cheap shots. Yes we all know there are mistakes being made but football is not going to be high on a political agenda. It should be high on the agendas of the governing bodies though. They owe their existence to the clubs, at least the EFL still does. The Pl owes its existence to the PL and the broadcasters.

Morally though, the PL has the biggest duty to football of any organisation including government. It is simply unwilling to dig into the vast sums and backers  to bail out something it is just not bothered about. If every club in L1, L2 downwards went bust tonight, the PL would not bat a collective eyelid. But there is no way to force the PL to do the right thing.
Posted by: HertsGTFC, September 27, 2020, 3:22pm; Reply: 14
James Findlater is very good at taking cheap shots. Yes we all know there are mistakes being made but football is not going to be high on a political agenda. It should be high on the agendas of the governing bodies though. They owe their existence to the clubs, at least the EFL still does. The Pl owes its existence to the PL and the broadcasters.

Morally though, the PL has the biggest duty to football of any organisation including government. It is simply unwilling to dig into the vast sums and backers  to bail out something it is just not bothered about. If every club in L1, L2 downwards went bust tonight, the PL would not bat a collective eyelid. But there is no way to force the PL to do the right thing.


It was high on two politicians agendas when they wanted to use it to get face time with their leader in mid week.

Posted by: louth_in_the_south, September 27, 2020, 3:45pm; Reply: 15
That article is an absolute load of sh.ite .
Lazy , cheap journalism.
Football needs to take a level of responsibility for itself. It’s obvious we shouldn’t be playing in front of empty grounds . It’s a recipe for disaster.
Club owners at L1 and 2 should’ve stood up for themselves and said they weren’t prepared to bankrupt themselves to keep the pyramid going just for the benefit of Sky and the PL !!!!!
Posted by: The Old Codger, September 27, 2020, 8:13pm; Reply: 16
Not in Dowden’s place to tell PL what to do. If pubs are open (indoors), there’s absolutely no reason for football not to go ahead in front of restricted crowds. Crowds are being allowed in across Europe. We need to see the wood for the trees because an effective vaccine could be some way away.
Posted by: IlkleyMariner, September 27, 2020, 9:14pm; Reply: 17
James Findlater is very good at taking cheap shots. Yes we all know there are mistakes being made but football is not going to be high on a political agenda. It should be high on the agendas of the governing bodies though. They owe their existence to the clubs, at least the EFL still does. The Pl owes its existence to the PL and the broadcasters.

Morally though, the PL has the biggest duty to football of any organisation including government. It is simply unwilling to dig into the vast sums and backers  to bail out something it is just not bothered about. If every club in L1, L2 downwards went bust tonight, the PL would not bat a collective eyelid. But there is no way to force the PL to do the right thing.


The problem with sport and politics is don’t mix them.
We don’t support GTFC or England to make political points. I would expect fans from all political persuasions to support the mariners. The politics of people I sit next to are irrelevant. Think the saying is we are all Town together.
Posted by: RichMariner, September 27, 2020, 9:32pm; Reply: 18
I had the misfortune to be taught by Lia Nici at East Coast Media, or whatever it was called 18-19 years ago.

She was the most disengaged tutor I'd ever experienced. Never really listened, eye contact was non-existent, basically she gave off a sense that she wasn't even remotely bothered about me, my colleagues or anyone but herself.

So in many ways she was destined to become a Tory MP.

An absolute suck-up to whoever is in charge and she ignored everyone else. That comes across clearer than ever today by the way she looks at Boris.
Posted by: LH, September 27, 2020, 9:36pm; Reply: 19
Quoted from RichMariner
I had the misfortune to be taught by Lia Nici at East Coast Media, or whatever it was called 18-19 years ago.

She was the most disengaged tutor I'd ever experienced. Never really listened, eye contact was non-existent, basically she gave off a sense that she wasn't even remotely bothered about me, my colleagues or anyone but herself.

So in many ways she was destined to become a Tory MP.

An absolute suck-up to whoever is in charge and she ignored everyone else. That comes across clearer than ever today by the way she looks at Boris.


Everyone who was ‘taught’ by her has a similar opinion! Some decent tutors there when I was there between 2004 and 2008 and I remember most of them for what they taught. I couldn’t tell you what subjects she did though!
Posted by: KingstonMariner, September 27, 2020, 9:39pm; Reply: 20
Quoted from louth_in_the_south
That article is an absolute load of sh.ite .
Lazy , cheap journalism.
Football needs to take a level of responsibility for itself. It’s obvious we shouldn’t be playing in front of empty grounds . It’s a recipe for disaster.
Club owners at L1 and 2 should’ve stood up for themselves and said they weren’t prepared to bankrupt themselves to keep the pyramid going just for the benefit of Sky and the PL !!!!!


Well given that the expectation founded on advice from the government was that the stadia wouldn’t be empty soon, it’s a bit unfair to say clubs voted to play in empty stadia.

Then there’s the confused and contradictory policy on what is and isn’t allowed to be open. Why can I spend all day indoors in Wetherspoons (until 10pm) but not in a semi-open football ground for two hours?

If they don’t play FL clubs have no income. How do they pay for fixed costs?

Football League clubs and the FL have no control over the Premier League, and neither does the FA in reality, so how does ‘football take ....responsibility for itself’? Through what mechanism?
Posted by: Davec, September 27, 2020, 9:41pm; Reply: 21
Quoted from RichMariner
I had the misfortune to be taught by Lia Nici at East Coast Media, or whatever it was called 18-19 years ago.

She was the most disengaged tutor I'd ever experienced. Never really listened, eye contact was non-existent, basically she gave off a sense that she wasn't even remotely bothered about me, my colleagues or anyone but herself.

So in many ways she was destined to become a Tory MP.

An absolute suck-up to whoever is in charge and she ignored everyone else. That comes across clearer than ever today by the way she looks at Boris.


Was never taught by her however I have met her before whilst she was working as a tutor and I can certainly see why you and others have that opinion.
Posted by: louth_in_the_south, September 27, 2020, 10:17pm; Reply: 22
Quoted from KingstonMariner


Well given that the expectation founded on advice from the government was that the stadia wouldn’t be empty soon, it’s a bit unfair to say clubs voted to play in empty stadia.

Then there’s the confused and contradictory policy on what is and isn’t allowed to be open. Why can I spend all day indoors in Wetherspoons (until 10pm) but not in a semi-open football ground for two hours?

If they don’t play FL clubs have no income. How do they pay for fixed costs?

Football League clubs and the FL have no control over the Premier League, and neither does the FA in reality, so how does ‘football take ....responsibility for itself’? Through what mechanism?


What income do clubs have exactly? A few season tickets sold , a lower than normal merchandise income etc etc .
Playing games means all the normal costs with testing on top . Not feasible in the short term and definitely a sure way to guarantee bankruptcy in the longer term ...
Oh and the PL most definitely wags the tail of the EFL .
Posted by: arryarryarry, September 28, 2020, 3:25am; Reply: 23
"First of all, it goes without saying I wish the young midfielder a speedy recovery. Secondly, the people in charge of a system which has forced him into the situation where he has put his family, friends, team-mates and so many others at risk should hang their heads in shame."

I must be missing something but what does he mean about people being in charge of a system forcing him into a situation?
Posted by: aldi_01, September 28, 2020, 6:31am; Reply: 24
I think football is putting itself on a pedestal again in some ways here.

There are plenty of jobs that have done exactly the same as football and have put workers back to work. There are numerous reasons why but to have a poo at the EFL like they’ve asked him to climb Everest with only a toothpick is extreme.

One could argue that the clubs attitude to purchasing private testing kits is also something putting players at risk...

I don’t believe the premier league wag anyone’s tail; they’ve no need. They’re a brand, they’re independent in most respects and they’re successful. We shouldn’t be relying on them. I’d imagine if we were in the top flight people’s attitudes about bailing out little clubs like ours would be somewhat different.

Football has fixed costs, utilities, wages, ground maintenance and so forth....at our level the cash to cover those is generated through ticket sales and the like, that simply isn’t there.
Posted by: Northbank Mariner, September 28, 2020, 6:32am; Reply: 25
Quoted from arryarryarry
"First of all, it goes without saying I wish the young midfielder a speedy recovery. Secondly, the people in charge of a system which has forced him into the situation where he has put his family, friends, team-mates and so many others at risk should hang their heads in shame."

I must be missing something but what does he mean about people being in charge of a system forcing him into a situation?


Aimed at the fact he's playing for Spalding but training with town, means he had the potential to pick up at Spalding then cross contaminate into the town squad. If he's playing at Spalding he should only have mixed with their squad.
Posted by: KingstonMariner, September 28, 2020, 8:37am; Reply: 26
Quoted from louth_in_the_south


What income do clubs have exactly? A few season tickets sold , a lower than normal merchandise income etc etc .
Playing games means all the normal costs with testing on top . Not feasible in the short term and definitely a sure way to guarantee bankruptcy in the longer term ...
Oh and the PL most definitely wags the tail of the EFL .


IFollow has the potential to bring in substantial amounts of money . Not going to replace ticket sales obviously, but we stand to gain from a share of away game revenue . We don’t normally get any away ticket revenue.
Posted by: pen penfras, September 28, 2020, 8:58am; Reply: 27
Quoted from KingstonMariner


IFollow has the potential to bring in substantial amounts of money . Not going to replace ticket sales obviously, but we stand to gain from a share of away game revenue . We don’t normally get any away ticket revenue.


5% of sales according to Colchester chairman. Not sure if that means away ticket sales or total gate, I assume away. Probably not that much more money from ifollow since the amount is capped at 500 sales, so about £3-4k
Posted by: HertsGTFC, September 28, 2020, 9:39am; Reply: 28
Quoted from pen penfras


5% of sales according to Colchester chairman. Not sure if that means away ticket sales or total gate, I assume away. Probably not that much more money from ifollow since the amount is capped at 500 sales, so about £3-4k


I think we get 5% of advance sales.
Posted by: KingstonMariner, September 28, 2020, 10:26am; Reply: 29
Quoted from HertsGTFC


I think we get 5% of advance sales.


5% of away tickets sold through GTFC isn’t it? Whereas we get 80% of everything above a threshold (500?) iFollow match passes. With no travel constraints we could get more people watching on iFollow than were able to physically attend.
Posted by: pen penfras, September 28, 2020, 10:31am; Reply: 30
Quoted from KingstonMariner


5% of away tickets sold through GTFC isn’t it? Whereas we get 80% of everything above a threshold (500?) iFollow match passes. With no travel constraints we could get more people watching on iFollow than were able to physically attend.


Sorry, I got that the wrong way around. We don't get the first 500 sales. We probably get even less that way. I doubt we have 1000 individual passes purchased for away games with people watching within the same household, some won't watch and some will watch dodgy links rather than pay.

I'm not sure if we get 60% or 80% of the sale. I've seen both numbers listed by clubs, not sure what the latest is.
Posted by: Lincoln Mariner 56, September 28, 2020, 10:44am; Reply: 31
The big question for me following last weekend’s fixtures is simply were we right to postpone our game and close the training ground after one player tested positive or, were Stevenage right in playing their match after 3 players failed the Covid test?

Either the EFL has totally ineffective and unclear protocols or either Town or Stevenage have applied the protocol incorrectly. I await the outcome of the investigation and no doubt a further statement from our Chairman.
Posted by: arryarryarry, September 28, 2020, 10:58am; Reply: 32
Quoted from Northbank Mariner


Aimed at the fact he's playing for Spalding but training with town, means he had the potential to pick up at Spalding then cross contaminate into the town squad. If he's playing at Spalding he should only have mixed with their squad.


That is surely a dig at every football club that sends players out on loan.

He probably has just as big a chance of catching it anywhere he goes out.

I thought that article was just long rant about Boris Johnson.
Posted by: KingstonMariner, September 28, 2020, 11:42am; Reply: 33
Quoted from pen penfras


Sorry, I got that the wrong way around. We don't get the first 500 sales. We probably get even less that way. I doubt we have 1000 individual passes purchased for away games with people watching within the same household, some won't watch and some will watch dodgy links rather than pay.

I'm not sure if we get 60% or 80% of the sale. I've seen both numbers listed by clubs, not sure what the latest is.


Good point about households watching together. But people can watch games that they wouldn’t consider going to. I wouldn’t have gone to Walsall the other week for example. Most home games I’d miss too.

I’m not saying this is a replacement for traditional match day income, but it must help defray the marginal costs of putting a game on.
Posted by: jamesgtfc, September 28, 2020, 11:47am; Reply: 34
Everyone moaning at Jock training with us and Spalding...

We are a professional outfit and it is probably in his contract that he trains like a professional. Spalding are part-time and probably train once or twice per week on an evening.

We send players out on loan to develop what they learn Monday-Friday with us. If he was on loan at Notts County for example, I'm sure we would see very little of him but he's not.

I believe we've had a number of players on loan in the past who only train with our squad 1-2 days per week. Appreciate these are different times but if the system allows it to happen, I can see why we did it.
Posted by: RichMariner, September 28, 2020, 1:17pm; Reply: 35
I'm confused — and maybe this is the point: have we and Stevenage interpreted the same rules differently, or are the rules open to interpretation?

From what I can gather, we cancelled a match (and potentially two more) because one player had covid, and Stevenage played a match despite three players having covid.

I honestly don't know how long I should isolate for, if I had covid symptoms. Is it different for footballers? How long do you self-isolate for if you don't have covid but spent time in a place where someone did have it?

The lockdown rules differ from city to city at the moment. The government (and governing bodies) aren't being consistent or clear about any of this. I appreciate we're living in unprecedented times where hindsight is the winner, but really, I haven't got a clue who's right, who's wrong, who's playing by the official rules, who isn't... and what the official rules are!
Posted by: GrimRob, September 28, 2020, 1:36pm; Reply: 36
Quoted from RichMariner
I honestly don't know how long I should isolate for, if I had covid symptoms. Is it different for footballers? How long do you self-isolate for if you don't have covid but spent time in a place where someone did have it?
!


10 days if you have symptoms, 14 days if you live with someone with symptoms. It's all on the government web site.


Posted by: ginnywings, September 30, 2020, 2:58pm; Reply: 37
Response from Martin Vickers:

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/martin-vickers-grimsby-town-letter-4561502
Posted by: KingstonMariner, September 30, 2020, 5:19pm; Reply: 38
Quoted from ginnywings


Be funny if someone won that shirt at auction and then organised a live burning* to raise more money.

* of the vandalised shirt not the vandal
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