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Posted by: NorthseaMariner, September 20, 2020, 7:05pm
Seriously, does anyone know how long we’re going to have this “Taking the knee” malaky, in the Premiership?
Posted by: WOZOFGRIMSBY, September 20, 2020, 7:09pm; Reply: 1
It’s a point that’s been made now. It’s time to call time on it.

Or will that cause more offence?
Posted by: NorthseaMariner, September 20, 2020, 7:11pm; Reply: 2
Agreed. It’s turning into something like the national anthem used to be played at the cinema and everyone used to dash to get out before it was played.
Posted by: headingly_mariner, September 20, 2020, 7:11pm; Reply: 3
Why does it bother you?

It’s 10 seconds of quiet solidarity against racial injustice.
Posted by: NorthseaMariner, September 20, 2020, 7:15pm; Reply: 4
Yes the National anthem being played every time I was leaving the cinema did eventually bother me. 😎. Not rising to the bait.
Posted by: WOZOFGRIMSBY, September 20, 2020, 7:16pm; Reply: 5
Quoted from headingly_mariner
Why does it bother you?

It’s 10 seconds of quiet solidarity against racial injustice.


I think it’s the total opposite. Maybe am wrong.
Posted by: GrimRob, September 20, 2020, 7:20pm; Reply: 6
Quoted from NorthseaMariner
Seriously, does anyone know how long we’re going to have this “Taking the knee” malaky, in the Premiership?


Until we can have a minute's silence (for whoever) probably
Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, September 20, 2020, 7:21pm; Reply: 7
Quoted from NorthseaMariner
Seriously, does anyone know how long we’re going to have this “Taking the knee” malaky, in the Premiership?


Till we have crowds back I would imagine.

The reception would be mixed, at best.
Posted by: TheRealJohnLewis, September 20, 2020, 7:23pm; Reply: 8
It will go on for as long as the players feel the need to protest, and it won't just stop because ignorant white people are easily offended by racial inequality.
Posted by: sam gy, September 20, 2020, 7:52pm; Reply: 9
Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY


I think it’s the total opposite. Maybe am wrong.


Yeah, you are.
Posted by: Rodley Mariner, September 20, 2020, 8:07pm; Reply: 10
If the players want to do it what odds is it to anyone? I know some of you love a bit of racism but thankfully most decent people have had enough of it.
Posted by: Roast Em Bobby, September 20, 2020, 8:18pm; Reply: 11
Quoted from TheRealJohnLewis
It will go on for as long as the players feel the need to protest, and it won't just stop because ignorant white people are easily offended by racial inequality.


Spot on
Posted by: male private Nale, September 20, 2020, 8:34pm; Reply: 12
Quoted from headingly_mariner
Why does it bother you?

It’s 10 seconds of quiet solidarity against racial injustice.


It bothers me greatly as it is politicising sport, something which we have been told by FIFA et al that should never be done, sanctions have been brought about Eastern European teams for doing similar in the past, yet because the horrid corporations such as PL and SKY have rammed it down our throats it's deemed fine.

It seems to be that if you do not take the knee you are instantly deemed by some as a racist, far from it just a realist.

The irony of white players like Patrick Bamford actually raising a fist whilst doing it is obviously lost on them, the fundamentals of BLM and its founders have nothing to do with equality.

I take my hat off to the Coventry and QPR teams who opted not to do it.

Posted by: ska face, September 20, 2020, 8:49pm; Reply: 13
Quoted from male private Nale


It bothers me greatly as it is politicising sport,


You’ll not be taking part in any minutes silence for remembrance day then, and demanding the iron-on poppies are removed from players shirts then yeah?
Posted by: NorthseaMariner, September 20, 2020, 8:50pm; Reply: 14
So, in short, no one knows how long these political protests are to go on? And no one is allowed not to tow the line, without being a racist. Quite worrying I think.
Posted by: Rodley Mariner, September 20, 2020, 8:53pm; Reply: 15
In short only one type of person gets really wound up by it.......
Posted by: pen penfras, September 20, 2020, 8:55pm; Reply: 16
Quoted from ska face


You’ll not be taking part in any minutes silence for remembrance day then, and demanding the iron-on poppies are removed from players shirts then yeah?


Not really the same, is it? One is a political statement trying to change things, the other is remembering the people who fought and died for our freedom.

I don't really care that players take the knee, but BLM doesn't send a message of equality to me.
Posted by: ska face, September 20, 2020, 8:55pm; Reply: 17
Quoted from NorthseaMariner
And no one is allowed not to tow the line, without being a racist.


Has anyone actually seen anyone make that claim? Typical fragile mindset, you’re not the victim here no matter how much you try turn yourself into one, embarrassing levels of cry-arsing  
Posted by: ska face, September 20, 2020, 9:00pm; Reply: 18
Quoted from pen penfras


Not really the same, is it? One is a political statement trying to change things, the other is remembering the people who fought and died for our freedom..


Our freedom to do what exactly? Freedom of speech? What happened to that?
Posted by: TheRealJohnLewis, September 20, 2020, 9:01pm; Reply: 19
Quoted from NorthseaMariner
So, in short, no one knows how long these political protests are to go on? And no one is allowed not to tow the line, without being a racist. Quite worrying I think.


What does it matter how long they go on for as players taking the knee has zero effect on you. No one is asking you to take a knee, so you don't have to tow the line, if you don't like it ignore it. However do not object to someone's inherrent right to protest for something they believe in.  
Posted by: pen penfras, September 20, 2020, 9:07pm; Reply: 20
Quoted from ska face


Our freedom to do what exactly? Freedom of speech? What happened to that?


Quoted Text
I don't really care that players take the knee, but BLM doesn't send a message of equality to me.


What part of that says they shouldn't have freedom of speech? It says I disagree with the message of BLM, not that they shouldn't be allowed to make a point that they believe in.
Posted by: Croxton, September 20, 2020, 9:08pm; Reply: 21
Quoted from TheRealJohnLewis
It will go on for as long as the players feel the need to protest, and it won't just stop because ignorant white people are easily offended by racial inequality.


Leaving your own racist comment aside, did you mean white people like me are offended by 'inequality'? Yes many of us are, and demonstrate that in many ways in their lives. If you meant to say ' equality' then I think it is basic social justice.

I question the assumption that all town players, whatever their ethnicity are entirely comfortable with a public display of 'solidarity' when this gesture is so easily associated with a BLM hard left political agenda. If all players participate, surely that is reminiscent of North Korean worship of a despot during a military display. Hardly a personal statement.

Why do you want to pile this societal pressure on to young players? They already have a strongly worded set of protocols from the EFL ( for all staff), and wear the ''Not Today Or Any Day'' logo on their shirts.
Would you like fans to 'take the knee' as we enter the ground? One has said he would. Fine, his choice. Let the players have theirs.
Posted by: Rodley Mariner, September 20, 2020, 9:10pm; Reply: 22
There seems to be plenty of pressure on 'these young players' to stop it which I'm guessing is fine with you. If you genuinely think they're kneeling to support Marxism then God help you.
Posted by: TheRealJohnLewis, September 20, 2020, 9:12pm; Reply: 23
Quoted from Croxton


Leaving your own racist comment aside, did you mean white people like me are offended by 'inequality'? Yes many of us are, and demonstrate that in many ways in their lives. If you meant to say ' equality' then I think it is basic social justice.

I question the assumption that all town players, whatever their ethnicity are entirely comfortable with a public display of 'solidarity' when this gesture is so easily associated with a BLM hard left political agenda. If all players participate, surely that is reminiscent of North Korean worship of a despot during a military display. Hardly a personal statement.

Why do you want to pile this societal pressure on to young players? They already have a strongly worded set of protocols from the EFL ( for all staff), and wear the ''Not Today Or Any Day'' logo on their shirts.
Would you like fans to 'take the knee' as we enter the ground? One has said he would. Fine, his choice. Let the players have theirs.


A lot of anger there,  I am not applying any pressure to go either way, to take a knee or not.  It is there choice, the pressure is coming from the anti-BLM side of this arrgument not those in favour.

Posted by: sam gy, September 20, 2020, 9:13pm; Reply: 24
So, so many snowflakes crying about some footballers taking the knee. Again.

Wahh wahh wahhh. Pathetic.
Posted by: Croxton, September 20, 2020, 9:19pm; Reply: 25
Quoted from Rodley Mariner
There seems to be plenty of pressure on 'these young players' to stop it which I'm guessing is fine with you. If you genuinely think they're kneeling to support Marxism then God help you.


Didn't say that and you know it. What is it about straw man arguments that so attracts you? Just deal with what folk actually say and then you will actually be discussing the issues as opposed to slinging Twitter like insults. Oh, and best leave deities out of it don't you think?
Posted by: LH, September 20, 2020, 9:20pm; Reply: 26
Three pages and no-one has said all lives matter yet. Have we broken a record?
Posted by: ska face, September 20, 2020, 9:20pm; Reply: 27
Quoted from pen penfras




What part of that says they shouldn't have freedom of speech? It says I disagree with the message of BLM, not that they shouldn't be allowed to make a point that they believe in.


Which is what?
Posted by: arryarryarry, September 20, 2020, 9:21pm; Reply: 28
Quoted from TheRealJohnLewis


A lot of anger there,  I am not applying any pressure to go either way, to take a knee or not.  It is there choice, the pressure is coming from the anti-BLM side of this arrgument not those in favour.



How do you know it's their choice. Some of the younger players may feel afraid of repercussions from other players if they don't get down on one knee.

Thankfully not all F1 drivers feel the need to get down on one knee even if it upsets the excrement out of Lewis Hamilton and the moaning pathetic Sky commentators.  
Posted by: Rodley Mariner, September 20, 2020, 9:23pm; Reply: 29
Now you mention it I thought I saw a single tear running down James Tilley's cheek as Matt Green glowered at him and slowly ran a finger across his own throat.
Posted by: Rodley Mariner, September 20, 2020, 9:24pm; Reply: 30
Quoted from Croxton


Didn't say that and you know it. What is it about straw man arguments that so attracts you? Just deal with what folk actually say and then you will actually be discussing the issues as opposed to slinging Twitter like insults. Oh, and best leave deities out of it don't you think?


I have no problem if Coventry and QPR didn't kneel just as I support the choice of Town players to kneel. Do you respect their right to kneel if they want to?
Posted by: ska face, September 20, 2020, 9:27pm; Reply: 31
Quoted from arryarryarry

Some of the younger players may feel afraid of repercussions from other players if they don't get down on one knee.



So absolutely, unspeakably triggered by someone kneeling down for 10 seconds they’re confecting scenarios where young players will be bullied for not joining in.

These people are absolutely deranged. I’d imagine the protests will go on until people can address the issue without soiling themselves like adult babies.
Posted by: Croxton, September 20, 2020, 9:28pm; Reply: 32
Quoted from TheRealJohnLewis


A lot of anger there,  I am not applying any pressure to go either way, to take a knee or not.  It is there choice, the pressure is coming from the anti-BLM side of this arrgument not those in favour.


Quote me the 'anger'. Very measured in fact considering your blithe ' ignorant white people' remark. My whole point is, as you say, that no pressure should be applied. Would it be O.K for me to include the phrase 'ignorant black people' in any context?

Posted by: TAGG, September 20, 2020, 9:29pm; Reply: 33
This thread just goes to prove there is to much politics (that's what this has become) balderdash in sport.
Just look at the nose dive US TV ratings for sport has taken.
It should stop now and get on with the flipping football.
Posted by: sam gy, September 20, 2020, 9:34pm; Reply: 34
Quoted from Croxton


this gesture is so easily associated with a BLM hard left political agenda. If all players participate, surely that is reminiscent of North Korean worship of a despot during a military display. Hardly a personal statement.


You are just hilarious.
Posted by: Rodley Mariner, September 20, 2020, 9:34pm; Reply: 35
They did get on with the flipping football. After about 4 seconds of kneeling. I don't see how the latter stops the former. I wish it had done yesterday but it didn't.
Posted by: LH, September 20, 2020, 9:37pm; Reply: 36
I reckon they should keep doing the knee if it means the racists stop going to football.
Posted by: Rodley Mariner, September 20, 2020, 9:39pm; Reply: 37
I would rather have watched 90 minutes of kneeling yesterday. The kneeling was the best bit.
Posted by: Croxton, September 20, 2020, 9:44pm; Reply: 38
Quoted from Rodley Mariner


I have no problem if Coventry and QPR didn't kneel just as I support the choice of Town players to kneel. Do you respect their right to kneel if they want to?


Of course! My whole gist is about personal choice over peer or political pressure. BP is their workplace. They have the same rights of employment as Tesco workers or anyone else. We have enough problems on the pitch without dressing room culture wars.
Posted by: Rodley Mariner, September 20, 2020, 9:46pm; Reply: 39
Dressing room culture wars 😂
Posted by: WOZOFGRIMSBY, September 20, 2020, 9:47pm; Reply: 40
For me, it’s gone on way too long.

How would the world feel if, just for example, a minutes silence was held at 3pm every week for armistice day or remembrance of 9/11 or sinking of the titanic. It doesn’t matter about colour or creed or religion. Nobody cares about someone that got stabbed in east China and I know that No-one gives a Flying fu(k about my auntie when she died in Rhodesia.

It’s the media that are putting it in the spotlight. It’s them focusing on black or mixed race players prior to kick off.
Posted by: Croxton, September 20, 2020, 9:49pm; Reply: 41
Quoted from sam gy


You are just hilarious.


Twitter a bit slow tonight Sam?
Posted by: Rodley Mariner, September 20, 2020, 9:51pm; Reply: 42
Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY
For me, it’s gone on way too long.

How would the world feel if, just for example, a minutes silence was held at 3pm every week for armistice day or remembrance of 9/11 or sinking of the titanic. It doesn’t matter about colour or creed or religion. Nobody cares about someone that got stabbed in east China and I know that No-one gives a Flying fu(k about my auntie when she died in Rhodesia.

It’s the media that are putting it in the spotlight. It’s them focusing on black or mixed race players prior to kick off.


September 11th and Armistice Day happened in the past. We mark them to remember them. Racial discrimination clearly and demonstrably happens now. If people kneeling bothers you more than institutional racism then.......
Posted by: WOZOFGRIMSBY, September 20, 2020, 9:52pm; Reply: 43
Quoted from Rodley Mariner


September 11th and Armistice Day happened in the past. We mark them to remember them. Racial discrimination clearly and demonstrably happens now. If people kneeling bothers you more than institutional racism then.......


Oh. So the outcry isn’t about past slavery etc then??

It’s all because a bloke dies at the hand (or knee) of the police then?
Posted by: Rodley Mariner, September 20, 2020, 9:54pm; Reply: 44
No it's because of ongoing institutionalised racism. The sort that leads to events like the George Floyd killing. Slavery was bad though.
Posted by: Rodley Mariner, September 20, 2020, 9:58pm; Reply: 45
Just a thought for those talking about peer pressure, freedom of choice etc. I haven't read anything where a single fan has said 'If they don't kneel then I won't be going' but conversely Twitter, Facebook and The Fishy has a number of red-faced, angry men deeply unhappy and in many cases making threats because they did.  
Posted by: male private Nale, September 20, 2020, 10:23pm; Reply: 46
I don't care what each individual player does as he comes onto the pitch, I don't get worked up at those praying to god, allah or to loved ones who have died. or whatever else they chose to do.

If individual players no matter how many want to take the knee prior to kick off then so be it, what I do not like and whole heartedly disagree with is that there has been a mandate driven by SKY, PL and other mainstream outlets for everyone associated to take the knee and Jesus if they don't then a big debate breaks out on sky about it.... that is what is wrong.

But go ahead liken it to Remembrance Day if you wish and keep calling us that disagree with BLM and taking the knee bigots, racists etc.
Posted by: WOZOFGRIMSBY, September 20, 2020, 10:25pm; Reply: 47
There’s people on here, imho, with double standards.

What ‘if’ a person of ‘African origin’ had died when on a fox hunt?

What if a white person had died in the same way by the police in America?

What if a white supremacacist (*sp) went into a mosque and blew themself and innocent people up?
Posted by: headingly_mariner, September 20, 2020, 10:26pm; Reply: 48
Quoted from Rodley Mariner
No it's because of ongoing institutionalised racism. The sort that leads to events like the George Floyd killing. Slavery was bad though.


I’m astonished that people don’t understand this.

It worries me that people are completely radicalised by nonsense they read all over social media, the same people that use the phrase “mainstream media”, like getting your news from varied sources of professional journalism is a bad thing.

If your news comes from Facebook or from YouTube channel then you may as well believe in flat earth and fairies.
Posted by: RichMariner, September 20, 2020, 10:27pm; Reply: 49
There is racial injustice in the world and I will quite happily support those who choose to protest by taking the knee for as long they want to protest in that manner.

It's a peaceful, non-invasive protest. It's what a protest should be.
Posted by: Sir Matt Tease, September 20, 2020, 10:28pm; Reply: 50
Enough is enough as far as I'm concerned. Any decent human being would agree that all lives matter and that you should treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself.

I just don't understand how watching Raheem Sterling and 21 others taking the knee every Saturday is helping any black people involved in knife and drug crime in Haringey and Hackney.

I dont even think that the BLM protesters know what they want. Having lost the Brexit vote and the election, rather than sit around drinking skinny latee's in Clapham they have decided that this is the next opportunity to cause chaos.

From what I understand the BLM requirements are as follows:


1. BLM wants to ‘dismantle capitalism’
2. BLM wants to abolish prisons
3. BLM wants to get rid of borders
4. BLM says unemployment is 'violence'
5. BLM condemns stop and search
6. BLM wants to get rid of the police
7. BLM says the government appointment of a Pakistani heritage woman is 'racist'
8. BLM condemned the suffragettes
9. BLM said Churchill is 'staunchly racist'
10. BLM describes big charities as 'colonisers'

Good luck with that lot !

I for one would just like to watch a football match minus the politics.
Posted by: ska face, September 20, 2020, 10:35pm; Reply: 51
You reckon some league 2 footballers kneeling down for 10 seconds in an empty stadium is a step towards the removal of the concept of nations?

Or maybe they just want to show support for a just cause.
Posted by: WOZOFGRIMSBY, September 20, 2020, 10:35pm; Reply: 52
Quoted from RichMariner
There is racial injustice in the world and I will quite happily support those who choose to protest by taking the knee for as long they want to protest in that manner.

It's a peaceful, non-invasive protest. It's what a protest should be.


It’s not racial injustice at all mate. It sanctimonious bullsh1t.

Every race and religion has felt persecuted at some time. It doesn’t matter ether If it’s the Egyptians, the Irish, the Bolivians, the Eskimo’s or the Tibetan monks. Unless you are ruling an empire or are wining a war, then you are a victim to atrocity
Posted by: male private Nale, September 20, 2020, 10:41pm; Reply: 53
Quoted from Sir Matt Tease
Enough is enough as far as I'm concerned. Any decent human being would agree that all lives matter and that you should treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself.

I just don't understand how watching Raheem Sterling and 21 others taking the knee every Saturday is helping any black people involved in knife and drug crime in Haringey and Hackney.

I dont even think that the BLM protesters know what they want. Having lost the Brexit vote and the election, rather than sit around drinking skinny latee's in Clapham they have decided that this is the next opportunity to cause chaos.

From what I understand the BLM requirements are as follows:


1. BLM wants to ‘dismantle capitalism’
2. BLM wants to abolish prisons
3. BLM wants to get rid of borders
4. BLM says unemployment is 'violence'
5. BLM condemns stop and search
6. BLM wants to get rid of the police
7. BLM says the government appointment of a Pakistani heritage woman is 'racist'
8. BLM condemned the suffragettes
9. BLM said Churchill is 'staunchly racist'
10. BLM describes big charities as 'colonisers'

Good luck with that lot !

I for one would just like to watch a football match minus the politics.


Exactly, well said
Posted by: RichMariner, September 20, 2020, 10:44pm; Reply: 54
Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY


It’s not racial injustice at all mate. It sanctimonious bullsh1t.


I really don't agree.
Posted by: Rodley Mariner, September 20, 2020, 10:52pm; Reply: 55
Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

What if a white supremacacist (*sp) went into a mosque and blew themself and innocent people up?


This feels like an easy one unless I'm missing something....unless you think that would be bad it kind of feels like you're pinning your colours to the mast.

Re the fox hunting African I think I'd need more detail. How did he die? Did the fox have any far right sympathies? Background detail like that.
Posted by: male private Nale, September 20, 2020, 11:01pm; Reply: 56
Quoted from RichMariner


I really don't agree.


That is your right to disagree, there is no mandate set for everyone to be seen to be in agreeance with these thoughts.
Posted by: KingstonMariner, September 20, 2020, 11:39pm; Reply: 57
Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY


I think it’s the total opposite. Maybe am wrong.


So you think people are taking the knee because they are pro-racism??!
Posted by: KingstonMariner, September 20, 2020, 11:43pm; Reply: 58
Quoted from sam gy
So, so many snowflakes crying about some footballers taking the knee. Again.

Wahh wahh wahhh. Pathetic.


You’re tight. Ironically it’s the people who often call others for being snowflakes. The biggest who gets out there.
Posted by: KingstonMariner, September 20, 2020, 11:53pm; Reply: 59
It’s quite simple really. If you think there is no racism you need to switch your senses on. If despite all the evidence about racism you deny it, you’re a lier.  If you think it’s OK you’re a racist. If you have a problem with anti-racism you are probably a racist. If you think people are being bullied into opposing racism you need to get real.
Posted by: mimma, September 20, 2020, 11:55pm; Reply: 60
I personally think it's losing it's affect, it's served its purpose but it can't carry on indefinitely. The look on most player's faces tells you all you need to know, they are doing because they have to, not because they want to. It has become a token gesture.

Time to move on me thinks.
Posted by: KingstonMariner, September 21, 2020, 12:36am; Reply: 61
Quoted from mimma
I personally think it's losing it's affect, it's served its purpose but it can't carry on indefinitely. The look on most player's faces tells you all you need to know, they are doing because they have to, not because they want to. It has become a token gesture.

Time to move on me thinks.


Has it served it’s purpose? How has it been successful?
Posted by: KingstonMariner, September 21, 2020, 12:39am; Reply: 62
In point if fact it hadn’t served it’s purpose. Just look at how many complaints that act got on that talent show. 15,000 was it? I bet most of them claim not to be racist. As if!
Posted by: Mayaman, September 21, 2020, 1:31am; Reply: 63
Made me laugh on the match thread.  One bloke said, that it shouldn't be in sport yet he kept banging on about it in the match thread. The ten second action lasted the whole match.  He also said, he would turn his back on Town - the sooner the better I think .   If you really want to turn your back, you'd just do it not keep talking about it.
Posted by: male private Nale, September 21, 2020, 1:52am; Reply: 64
Quoted from KingstonMariner
It’s quite simple really. If you think there is no racism you need to switch your senses on. If despite all the evidence about racism you deny it, you’re a lier.  If you think it’s OK you’re a racist. If you have a problem with anti-racism you are probably a racist. If you think people are being bullied into opposing racism you need to get real.


How simplistic your views are, oh there is plenty of racism in the world, having lived in moss side and stratford and witnessed it first hand, black people are not the only victims but who wants to hear about any differing views other than the media driven BLM.
Posted by: aldi_01, September 21, 2020, 6:13am; Reply: 65
So many folk bang on about it not being a football issue blah blah yet so many get their knickers in a twist about it.

To be honest, when we did it on Saturday it just made me laugh because I could see the non believers and so on getting raged at it...ironic given they justify why it should happen becauee football and politics should be kept apart...which is impossible.
Posted by: Black_and_White_Bear, September 21, 2020, 7:15am; Reply: 66
What annoys me about this whole thing is the fact that many of the players are now bringing the Black Power salute into play when they take the knee.  What next?
Posted by: wuffing, September 21, 2020, 7:51am; Reply: 67
The slave traders have a LOT to answer to. Bas****s.
Posted by: Roast Em Bobby, September 21, 2020, 8:14am; Reply: 68
Quoted from KingstonMariner
It’s quite simple really. If you think there is no racism you need to switch your senses on. If despite all the evidence about racism you deny it, you’re a lier.  If you think it’s OK you’re a racist. If you have a problem with anti-racism you are probably a racist. If you think people are being bullied into opposing racism you need to get real.


Spot on. Unfortunately there are many people on this forum who fall into the category of denying they are racist, when everything they type would suggest the total opposite.

This reminded me of many Fishy posters when I saw it.
https://newsthump.com/2020/08/10/man-who-spent-june-insisting-all-lives-matter-now-calling-for-navy-to-sink-migrant-boats-crossing-the-channel/
Posted by: Boris Johnson, September 21, 2020, 11:03am; Reply: 69
each to their own...I will just turn my back
Posted by: GollyGTFC, September 21, 2020, 11:08am; Reply: 70
Quoted from Boris Johnson
each to their own...I will just turn my back


Why do you feel so threatened about other people having equality with you? Do you think giving black people equality can only be achieved by you having to give something up yourself? What makes you so angry about the idea that BAME are treated like white people?
Posted by: friskneymariner, September 21, 2020, 11:17am; Reply: 71
Quoted from GollyGTFC


Why do you feel so threatened about other people having equality with you? Do you think giving black people equality can only be achieved by you having to give something up yourself? What makes you so angry about the idea that BAME are treated like white people?


White privelege.
Posted by: Boris Johnson, September 21, 2020, 11:38am; Reply: 72
Quoted from GollyGTFC


Why do you feel so threatened about other people having equality with you? Do you think giving black people equality can only be achieved by you having to give something up yourself? What makes you so angry about the idea that BAME are treated like white people?


who said I was angry,and certainly not in the least bit threatened,  I belive that this movement is divisive, and equally racist,
Posted by: pen penfras, September 21, 2020, 12:16pm; Reply: 73
Quoted from ska face


Which is what?


That the mere phrase "black lives matter" has an implication that other lives don't matter. What the message is supposed to be is about equality, but what about Asian, Oriental, Native Americans, Mexicans, Eastern Europeans and a whole host of other people that could be deemed to be taken advantage of in some way or another by the "rich white man".

Why does destroying British heritage need to be a part of a movement for equality? Atrocities committed in our colonial past were absolutely wrong, but we shouldn't try to destroy all evidence of them, we should keep them as a reminder of our past mistakes and learn from them. Why does a movement that wants equality want to abolish the police?
Posted by: Azimuth, September 21, 2020, 12:43pm; Reply: 74
Quoted from ska face


You’ll not be taking part in any minutes silence for remembrance day then, and demanding the iron-on poppies are removed from players shirts then yeah?


Rememberance day is the very opposite of a political statement or demonstation you clown and for you to suggest it is shows a staggering level of ignorance.
Posted by: Eastendmariner, September 21, 2020, 1:07pm; Reply: 75
let me take you back to a certain player named Tony Ford and certain Chants emanating from the Pontoon incorporating the N word we look back with shock and from my opinion with distaste.

ask yourselves is it ok to do that

Is he not a Town Icon a legend so why chant offensive words to one of our own ?

it seems to me that no one takes certain things that seriously.

All lives matter but why do people counter argue one against the other to prove a point, mammary for tat.

If the players want to take the knee fine It's their choice  No one get upset when a players runs on the pitch and they kiss the floor point to the sky cross their chest etc mumble and mumble little verse.





Posted by: pontoonlew, September 21, 2020, 1:09pm; Reply: 76
I must say I much prepare the Premier Leagues new approach which is more aimed at racism in general, not giving in to a BLM marketing campaign.

It’s a really slippery slope you get yourselves into when clubs like QPR have been chastised for not doing it. So now what, do you do it forever and hope that BLM don’t brand you as a racist club when you stop?

In my eyes BLM are an organisation who are intent on division and have actually caused more harm than they have good. You’ve got a brilliant opportunity here whilst the subject isn’t going away to make a change, yet BLM have peddled their Anti Police, Anti Semitic and Anti ‘white’ balderdash which has instead just alienated people. At some point people are going to look back on the BLM group and awkwardly acknowledge they were part of it and didn’t get involved in a decent anti racism campaign instead.
Posted by: WOZOFGRIMSBY, September 21, 2020, 1:49pm; Reply: 77
Interesting that les Ferdinand has come out today and said : o

‘that it was good PR but it’s message has now Been lost and is about as much use as a hashtag or a pin badge ‘

‘Taking the knee has now been diluted, much in the same way that the clap for carers ran its natural course’

The statement he makes is spot on in my opinion. It’s not that people don’t care about it, it’s lost any impact it had. For me, the likes of Lewis Hamilton have over played it meaning the good work that’s been done by the likes of Marcus rashford Is now not as effective. And if Marcus Rashford doesn’t get sports personality of the year or recognised in the New Years honours, something is amiss



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11711/12077926/qprs-les-ferdinand-taking-a-knee-message-has-been-lost
Posted by: mimma, September 21, 2020, 2:06pm; Reply: 78
Marcus Rashford will be overlooked in the new years honours list.

He hasn't donated any money to the Tory party, he only helps poor people.
Posted by: Rick12, September 21, 2020, 2:32pm; Reply: 79
Quoted from pen penfras


That the mere phrase "black lives matter" has an implication that other lives don't matter. What the message is supposed to be is about equality, but what about Asian, Oriental, Native Americans, Mexicans, Eastern Europeans and a whole host of other people that could be deemed to be taken advantage of in some way or another by the "rich white man".

Why does destroying British heritage need to be a part of a movement for equality? Atrocities committed in our colonial past were absolutely wrong, but we shouldn't try to destroy all evidence of them, we should keep them as a reminder of our past mistakes and learn from them. Why does a movement that wants equality want to abolish the police?
Well said.

Its shocking what happened to the  Native Americans Indians though. Hence they lived in most of what is now the United States of America and colonists came and bullied and killed millions in that quest for power .Now only pockets of original Native American land remain as your most likely aware.

I think  those that support the abolition of the police that's  quite a crazy view and is linked to that of the extreme left. Hence in most  society's since the dawn of man law and order has always existed in some shape or another.
Posted by: jock dock tower, September 21, 2020, 4:03pm; Reply: 80
When I see individuals saying they're not going to support t because they're Marxists, I could cry at the sheer stupidity of their cry. I doubt one of them has ever read Marx or even attempts to understand what it really is.

They hide behind the banality of "All Lives Matter" as it trying to reclaim the moral high ground.

They're going to turn their back on them if it happens when there's a crowd there? Good, let's be able to identify who the racists really are, because that is all the argument is about, preserving the racist hegemony.

No doubt the taking of the knee - I've done it myself on more than one occasion - will eventually go back to being a black symbol, very much like the clenched fists of the 1968 Olympic Games. That's only until the next unexplained black murder, and the nesxt......
Posted by: ska face, September 21, 2020, 4:34pm; Reply: 81
Quoted from pen penfras


That the mere phrase "black lives matter" has an implication that other lives don't matter.


Yeah if you’re really dim, have no grasp of context and have been living under a rock for the past few years.

This point has been (regularly) explicitly explained, but if you want to pretend that you don’t understand it then that probably says a bit more about you than you’d hope.
Posted by: Rodley Mariner, September 21, 2020, 4:41pm; Reply: 82
It's funny how many people are suddenly deeply concerned about the plight of other non-black ethnicities. You lads could do a fundraiser for the Native Americans you know? I promise I won't appear and start accusing you of not caring about the Rohingyas.
Posted by: WOZOFGRIMSBY, September 21, 2020, 4:43pm; Reply: 83
Quoted from mimma
Marcus Rashford will be overlooked in the new years honours list.

He hasn't donated any money to the Tory party, he only helps poor people.


🤦🏻‍♂️
Posted by: GollyGTFC, September 21, 2020, 5:05pm; Reply: 84
Oddly (or not) James O’Brien touches on this issue in the final half hour of his show on LBC today. Well worth a listen. Especially for certain people.
Posted by: GollyGTFC, September 21, 2020, 5:07pm; Reply: 85
Quoted from Boris Johnson


who said I was angry,and certainly not in the least bit threatened,  I belive that this movement is divisive, and equally racist,


Well if something upsets you so much that you turn your back on it the only reason I can think you’d do that is because you are either angry or maybe scared. Which one is it?
Posted by: arryarryarry, September 21, 2020, 5:41pm; Reply: 86
Quoted from KingstonMariner
In point if fact it hadn’t served it’s purpose. Just look at how many complaints that act got on that talent show. 15,000 was it? I bet most of them claim not to be racist. As if!


Les Ferdinand thinks it has.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/09/21/les-ferdinand-launches-angry-defence-queens-park-rangers-decision/
Posted by: arryarryarry, September 21, 2020, 5:50pm; Reply: 87
Quoted from ska face


You’ll not be taking part in any minutes silence for remembrance day then, and demanding the iron-on poppies are removed from players shirts then yeah?


Only a complete nincompoop would come up with that comparison.

Remembrance Day is to remember those who gave their lives for freedom in many wars. Poppies are sold to raise money to support the Armed Forces Community.

And to top it all it's once a year not before every frigging football match.
Posted by: ska face, September 21, 2020, 5:58pm; Reply: 88
Ah right. So that’s isn’t politicising sport but this is. Wars famous for being apolitical events...
Posted by: Rick12, September 21, 2020, 6:02pm; Reply: 89
Quoted from Rodley Mariner
It's funny how many people are suddenly deeply concerned about the plight of other non-black ethnicities. You lads could do a fundraiser for the Native Americans you know? I promise I won't appear and start accusing you of not caring about the Rohingyas.
I think as humans we should be concerned about each other Rodley be it black, white, brown etc . Hence were all part of the human race and all connected to the web of life. Ultimately though looking after our planet has to come first though. We have only been around as humans 200,000 years and in that short time we have done untold damage to the planet. David Attenborough current programme on the BBC "extinction "graphically illustrates that as well.

Its for this reason why I have had always so much love for the Native Americans that goes back many years and  goes in line with my own strong conservationist tendencies. Hence as other successful entrepreneurs  have said despite what we have achieved in our Western society via materialism and comfortable way of life we can learn so much from these people where most lived in harmony with nature. Hence without a sustainable planet to live on everything else just falls by the wayside .




Posted by: headingly_mariner, September 21, 2020, 6:55pm; Reply: 90
Quoted from arryarryarry


Only a complete nincompoop would come up with that comparison.

Remembrance Day is to remember those who gave their lives for freedom in many wars. Poppies are sold to raise money to support the Armed Forces Community.

And to top it all it's once a year not before every frigging football match.


I think it’s quite a fair comparison. Personally I think remembrance is hugely important and I greatly appreciate the work of  those that volunteer at the British Legion. For me it’s about remembering those who suffered in wars, I often think about those who signed up to fight in WW1, the lives lost and the lives of those who came home but were irreparably damaged.
Remembering those that went to fight against the nazis, they signed up to fight the ultimate evil and thankfully prevailed. It’s also important to remember the civilian cost in all wars. It’s also important for me to remember those involved in recent just and unjust conflicts that have been killed, injured or so poorly looked after on their return to this country.  

I see wars as generally unjust or unfair as it those that haven’t caused the wars who suffer above all.

So for me it’s an easy comparison to make to racism and standing up to it. It’s important to remember that lives are lost and damaged by racism both now and throughout History. Marking that with a peaceful protest is about remembering the issue and awareness for change.
Posted by: jock dock tower, September 21, 2020, 7:09pm; Reply: 91
Quoted from arryarryarry


Only a complete nincompoop would come up with that comparison.

Remembrance Day is to remember those who gave their lives for freedom in many wars. Poppies are sold to raise money to support the Armed Forces Community.

And to top it all it's once a year not before every frigging football match.


So you don't think that governments who negate their responsibilities to the armed service men and women - the folk they readily term as heroes - and leave it to charity isn't political? The amount of ex service men and women suffering terrible PTSD is a scandal. The amount of rough sleeping ex service personnel is a scandal. The amount of ex service personnel in jail is a scandal. But let's buy a poppy and wave a flag instead, eh?

Posted by: arryarryarry, September 21, 2020, 9:11pm; Reply: 92
Quoted from jock dock tower


So you don't think that governments who negate their responsibilities to the armed service men and women - the folk they readily term as heroes - and leave it to charity isn't political? The amount of ex service men and women suffering terrible PTSD is a scandal. The amount of rough sleeping ex service personnel is a scandal. The amount of ex service personnel in jail is a scandal. But let's buy a poppy and wave a flag instead, eh?



Oh for felicitations sake.

Where did I mention anything about it being either political or non political.

You could say underfunding the NHS is political, underfunding the fight against Islamic extremists who go on to kill innocent people is political just about any thing could be deemed political, the point I was making  is that footballers aren't going down on one knee before every game to prove that point.
Posted by: Humbercod, September 21, 2020, 9:27pm; Reply: 93
Les Ferdinand has got this bang on the money it’s no different to the clapping for NHS, nothing more than a token gesture by the vast majority of players, it’s time to drop it now and move on for the good of the game.
Posted by: RichMariner, September 21, 2020, 9:47pm; Reply: 94
Quoted from arryarryarry


Remembrance Day is to remember those who gave their lives for freedom in many wars.


True. People fought (and died) for their freedom.

And that's what the BLM campaign is all about; for black people it's to live a life free of prejudice; to be released from centuries of being treated differently, and to achieve equality.

Freedom is to be 'liberated from the power of another'.

Black people are dying at the hands of white power. Even if they're not dying, they don't have equality. Just look at how many black footballers report racist remarks made by fans at football matches. Racism is alive; it's still happening.

So for as long as racism exists, accept there will be protests.
Posted by: ska face, September 21, 2020, 10:21pm; Reply: 95
Quoted from arryarryarry


Oh for felicitations sake.

Where did I mention anything about it being either political or non political.
.


That’s what was being discussed when you chimed in. Do keep up...
Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, September 21, 2020, 10:52pm; Reply: 96
Quoted from RichMariner


True. People fought (and died) for their freedom.

And that's what the BLM campaign is all about; for black people it's to live a life free of prejudice; to be released from centuries of being treated differently, and to achieve equality.

Freedom is to be 'liberated from the power of another'.

Black people are dying at the hands of white power. Even if they're not dying, they don't have equality. Just look at how many black footballers report racist remarks made by fans at football matches. Racism is alive; it's still happening.

So for as long as racism exists, accept there will be protests.


If this was the sole aim of BLM then I doubt very much if there would be very much opposition. We all like to think of having equality in society. BLM in the U.K. has gone to great lengths to distance itself from BLM USA, which is a very good thing. The problem is that BLM UK still stands for so much more than simple anti-racism. It has admitted links with extremist and undemocratic groups and its website contains statements about being born white automatically making you a racist. By all means let’s demonstrate against racism but let’s not be so naive as to think this is all that BLM is about.



Posted by: KingstonMariner, September 21, 2020, 11:44pm; Reply: 97
Quoted from Roast Em Bobby


Spot on. Unfortunately there are many people on this forum who fall into the category of denying they are racist, when everything they type would suggest the total opposite.

This reminded me of many Fishy posters when I saw it.
https://newsthump.com/2020/08/10/man-who-spent-june-insisting-all-lives-matter-now-calling-for-navy-to-sink-migrant-boats-crossing-the-channel/


Hah hah! I like the comment about the Venn diagram.

You can probably chuck in climate change deniers and Holocaust deniers in the same too.
Posted by: KingstonMariner, September 21, 2020, 11:52pm; Reply: 98
Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY
Interesting that les Ferdinand has come out today and said : o

‘that it was good PR but it’s message has now Been lost and is about as much use as a hashtag or a pin badge ‘

‘Taking the knee has now been diluted, much in the same way that the clap for carers ran its natural course’

The statement he makes is spot on in my opinion. It’s not that people don’t care about it, it’s lost any impact it had. For me, the likes of Lewis Hamilton have over played it meaning the good work that’s been done by the likes of Marcus rashford Is now not as effective. And if Marcus Rashford doesn’t get sports personality of the year or recognised in the New Years honours, something is amiss



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11711/12077926/qprs-les-ferdinand-taking-a-knee-message-has-been-lost


That’s just giving racists another fig leaf to hide behind. Take the members of this board (I’m sure other platforms also have their share too) saying they will turn their backs if Town players take the knee. That’s not the action of someone who cares about the issue. It’s the action of an angry racist.

If you’re concerned about racism but don’t think taking the knee is helpful, you sure as hell wouldn’t be turning your back. You’d shrug your shoulders maybe. But you wouldn’t be foaming at the mouth in social media about it.
Posted by: KingstonMariner, September 22, 2020, 12:02am; Reply: 99
Quoted from male private Nale


How simplistic your views are, oh there is plenty of racism in the world, having lived in moss side and stratford and witnessed it first hand, black people are not the only victims but who wants to hear about any differing views other than the media driven BLM.


Some things really are that simple.

Nobody is saying that only white people are racist. The simple fact is though that non-white people are disproportionately victims of racism in this country. If the country was run by black people, and most of the wealth was held by black people, and most police were black, and if white people had the same experience as black people do in the real world, we’d be chanting White Lives Matter. But it isn’t, so ‘BLM’.

This has nothing to do with the ‘media driven BLM’ (Whatever that means). It’s down to real life observations. If you say that there is racial equality in this country you’re either a lier or you’ve been living in cloud cuckoo land.
Posted by: KingstonMariner, September 22, 2020, 12:07am; Reply: 100


If this was the sole aim of BLM then I doubt very much if there would be very much opposition. We all like to think of having equality in society. BLM in the U.K. has gone to great lengths to distance itself from BLM USA, which is a very good thing. The problem is that BLM UK still stands for so much more than simple anti-racism. It has admitted links with extremist and undemocratic groups and its website contains statements about being born white automatically making you a racist. By all means let’s demonstrate against racism but let’s not be so naive as to think this is all that BLM is about.





Hold on a minute. Just suppose all that is true about some organisation called ‘BLM’, what has that got to do with footballers announcing their opposition to racism by ‘taking the knee’.

Does this mean they are all part of SPECTRE or SMERSH or whatever global evildoers collective, and are committed to the overthrow of Queen and Country, and Paddington Bear and all else that is good and wholesome?

I must have missed the smallprint about this! Am I now a Bond villain’s minion and bound to die in a grey boiler suit in some hollowed out volcano?

Joking aside, are you seriously saying that you would be anti-racist if it wasn’t for the fact that some anti-racists hold other views that you don’t agree with?
Posted by: KingstonMariner, September 22, 2020, 12:11am; Reply: 101
I’ve just discovered that some extreme left wingers (Marxist-Leninists I believe they’re called) are in favour of free healthcare and education for everyone!

Better disband the NHS and close down state schools. The evil bas.tards!! We don’t want to be supporting any of that nonsense do we!
Posted by: GYinScuntland, September 22, 2020, 1:05am; Reply: 102
I self identify as a black homosexual and I think this is all balderdash.
Posted by: WOZOFGRIMSBY, September 22, 2020, 2:05am; Reply: 103
Quoted from KingstonMariner
I’ve just discovered that some extreme left wingers (Marxist-Leninists I believe they’re called) are in favour of free healthcare and education for everyone!

Better disband the NHS and close down state schools. The evil bas.tards!! We don’t want to be supporting any of that nonsense do we!


Best extreme left winger ever was Dave Gilbert
Posted by: male private Nale, September 22, 2020, 5:11am; Reply: 104
Quoted from ska face
Ah right. So that’s isn’t politicising sport but this is. Wars famous for being apolitical events...


Some whopper you are...  Remembrance day is not about remembering wars but those ordinary people that died in it.
Posted by: RichMariner, September 22, 2020, 7:45am; Reply: 105


If this was the sole aim of BLM then I doubt very much if there would be very much opposition. We all like to think of having equality in society. BLM in the U.K. has gone to great lengths to distance itself from BLM USA, which is a very good thing. The problem is that BLM UK still stands for so much more than simple anti-racism. It has admitted links with extremist and undemocratic groups and its website contains statements about being born white automatically making you a racist. By all means let’s demonstrate against racism but let’s not be so naive as to think this is all that BLM is about.





I understand what you’re saying but do you honestly think, when footballers take the knee — which is what this thread was originally about — that they’re doing it for anything other than equality and freedom?

I find many people will look for ways to distract or even discredit a campaign if they don’t agree with it, which I think is what is happening here.

All I’m saying is let’s acknowledge there is institutional racism, let’s acknowledge there’s racism in football and let’s respect someone’s right to protest. Taking the knee has raised the profile of this campaign. Whether it’s run its course or not is a fair debate.
Posted by: BobbyCummingsTackle, September 22, 2020, 8:01am; Reply: 106
This entire thread feels like a discussion between white people.

If any of you get the chance, sit down with a black person and talk about their everyday experiences in the UK. Very few will have been violently and verbally abused because of their race but they will have been discriminated against many times every day - the way white people look at them, the subtle shifts in body language when a white person meets a black person, the subtle change of tone and words in a conversation. Many institutions that we use every day are designed by and for white people.

A black mother was interviewed on the TV recently and she said she feared for her pre-teen son because he was very close to the point where British society stopped seeing him as cute and started seeing him as a threat.

Walk a mile in a black person's shoes.
Posted by: Rick12, September 22, 2020, 8:34am; Reply: 107
This entire thread feels like a discussion between white people.

If any of you get the chance, sit down with a black person and talk about their everyday experiences in the UK. Very few will have been violently and verbally abused because of their race but they will have been discriminated against many times every day - the way white people look at them, the subtle shifts in body language when a white person meets a black person, the subtle change of tone and words in a conversation. Many institutions that we use every day are designed by and for white people.

A black mother was interviewed on the TV recently and she said she feared for her pre-teen son because he was very close to the point where British society stopped seeing him as cute and started seeing him as a threat.

Walk a mile in a black person's shoes.
Yes good points. Theres still a way  to go in overcoming racial discrimination/stereotyping etc. Not just with black people but also disabled people and other groups as well. Hence Ive had friends for one who are wheelchair bound and they have faced untold mockery and discrimination throughout their lives.

The issue is with black lives matter  is your not going  to change people by forcing someone to support the black lives matter movement  eg the media. Change has to come from within.  

After this movement has run its cause there will always be some other form of injustice that needs battling. Hence its human nature sadly. People have a choice and often doing the right thing is often the hardest. Human perfection doesn't exist  .All we can all do is try.

Its a never ending battle .


Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, September 22, 2020, 9:14am; Reply: 108
Quoted from KingstonMariner



Joking aside, are you seriously saying that you would be anti-racist if it wasn’t for the fact that some anti-racists hold other views that you don’t agree with?


No Kingston I don’t think I said that at all. I am simply pointing out that there is a difference between believing and demonstrating that racism is wrong and supporting an organisations whose aims go way beyond promoting anti-racism. What players are thinking about when kneeling is not the same as what the leaders of that organisation think.

Not directed at you KM.

When people make trite comments about walking in a black person’s shoes and about white people being institutionally racist for being born white, it shows a level of bias and hatred of humanity on a par with any and every other racist attitude. But it is asking too much of the BLM supporters to see the illogicality of their levelling down philosophy against the levelling up of a true anti-racist. Much easier to call names and make gestures.
Posted by: BobbyCummingsTackle, September 22, 2020, 9:40am; Reply: 109


No Kingston I don’t think I said that at all. I am simply pointing out that there is a difference between believing and demonstrating that racism is wrong and supporting an organisations whose aims go way beyond promoting anti-racism. What players are thinking about when kneeling is not the same as what the leaders of that organisation think.

Not directed at you KM.

When people make trite comments about walking in a black person’s shoes and about white people being institutionally racist for being born white, it shows a level of bias and hatred of humanity on a par with any and every other racist attitude. But it is asking too much of the BLM supporters to see the illogicality of their levelling down philosophy against the levelling up of a true anti-racist. Much easier to call names and make gestures.


I have never read such a pile of cr*p that my comment about walking in a black person's shoes makes me biased and a hater of humanity (I can live with being accused of being trite). You are either being inflammatory or you are an unmitigated idiot.

Posted by: Sandford1981, September 22, 2020, 10:48am; Reply: 110



When people make trite comments about walking in a black person’s shoes and about white people being institutionally racist for being born white, it shows a level of bias and hatred of humanity on a par with any and every other racist attitude.



How on earth do you get to that conclusion from what Bobby said. The mind boggles.
Posted by: ska face, September 22, 2020, 12:54pm; Reply: 111
I think people are, quite blatantly, hiding behind this idea of BLM being an official organisation with a set of specific values and goals to justify withholding any support for the broad aims to the protest - nebulous as they are.

Not a problem in itself, everyone’s entitled to support or not support whatever causes they like. But I think it’s pretty clear that footballers are doing the protest to raise awareness and encourage action to be taken to address forms of systemic racism - and not because they want to abolish prisons or the concept of nations.

It’s usually from the same people that “support the message” but didn’t support removing statues celebrating slave traders.
Posted by: Norseman, September 22, 2020, 3:26pm; Reply: 112
Are the players and the club going to take any responsibility for the problems that will arise if fans are eventually allowed in. As can be seen on here and across other football sites many are opposed tokneeling by footballers who have may or may not have any  idea what the BLM movement stand for and hope to achieve. There will certainly be arguments and possibly violence which is all down to allowing politics into sport.
Posted by: TheRealJohnLewis, September 22, 2020, 4:51pm; Reply: 113
Politics has and always will be in sports.  If people are really that upset at players expressing a personal choice to send a statement over racial injustice, then maybe they should just stay away and let those who want to support the players on the pitch do so.

Edit.  Those who start the violence if any (ie those against the knee) should be held responsible not the players or the club and the fans should be banned accordingly if any violence  offence has been committed.
Posted by: Sandford1981, September 22, 2020, 4:53pm; Reply: 114
Quoted from Norseman
Are the players and the club going to take any responsibility for the problems that will arise if fans are eventually allowed in. As can be seen on here and across other football sites many are opposed tokneeling by footballers who have may or may not have any  idea what the BLM movement stand for and hope to achieve. There will certainly be arguments and possibly violence which is all down to allowing politics into sport.


This is ridiculous!
How about individuals being responsible for their own behaviour?
If fully grown adults cannot strongly disagree without resorting to violence then they deserve to face the consequences of their actions.
Posted by: BobbyCummingsTackle, September 22, 2020, 5:13pm; Reply: 115
Quoted from Sandford1981


This is ridiculous!
How about individuals being responsible for their own behaviour?
If fully grown adults cannot strongly disagree without resorting to violence then they deserve to face the consequences of their actions.


I agree with you completely but sadly there's overwhelming evidence that many adults can't disagree without resorting to violence.

I don't buy that people will resort to violence as a result of players taking a knee (I don't discount it being conceivable). Taking a knee as a protest came to prominence in the NFL a few years back and there was no violence associated with it, despite the protest taking place in cities forever associated with slavery and 'The South' and the president was openly opposed to it.

I suspect that if violence did become associated with taking a knee it would be because far right groups took the opportunity to counter protest and that descended into violence.
Posted by: Norseman, September 22, 2020, 5:16pm; Reply: 116
My point is they can't. That's why we have riots and clashes between groups of differing strong opinions. If GTFC allow the situation which could cause these flash points knowing full well it could. They are corporately responsible as are the Individuals. They segregate supporters to stop violence but when that fails as at the port Vale game the. Club were also rightly castigated for allowing the situation to be possible. It can all be prevented by leaving politics and protests outside the gate. Simple
Posted by: Sandford1981, September 22, 2020, 5:21pm; Reply: 117

I agree with you completely but sadly there's overwhelming evidence that many adults can't disagree without resorting to violence.


Absolutely, but to hold someone else accountable for your own behaviour is infantile.  


Posted by: Norseman, September 22, 2020, 5:41pm; Reply: 118
Out of interest why is someone who disagrees with black lives matter and their ideology labelled Far Right. I certainly disagree with them. But quite happy with  not today, not any day and it's predecessor say no to racism. None of which were divisive.,resulted in violence, riots, property damage and murder as it has in the states. For me the minute you put a colour before any statement it becomes racist. Can ordinary people not just have an opinion without being labelled just because their opinion is different.
Posted by: male private Nale, September 22, 2020, 6:12pm; Reply: 119
This entire thread feels like a discussion between white people.

If any of you get the chance, sit down with a black person and talk about their everyday experiences in the UK. Very few will have been violently and verbally abused because of their race but they will have been discriminated against many times every day - the way white people look at them, the subtle shifts in body language when a white person meets a black person, the subtle change of tone and words in a conversation. Many institutions that we use every day are designed by and for white people.

A black mother was interviewed on the TV recently and she said she feared for her pre-teen son because he was very close to the point where British society stopped seeing him as cute and started seeing him as a threat.

Walk a mile in a black person's shoes.


Works both ways that, I presume you have never lived in heavily populated black areas, I do not condone any racism, have friends and workmates of all ethnicities but to say walk a mile in a black persons shoes you should also try walking a mile in a white persons shoes living amongst blacks before you mount your soap box.
Posted by: BobbyCummingsTackle, September 22, 2020, 6:13pm; Reply: 120
Quoted from Norseman
Out of interest why is someone who disagrees with black lives matter and their ideology labelled Far Right. I certainly disagree with them. But quite happy with  not today, not any day and it's predecessor say no to racism. None of which were divisive.,resulted in violence, riots, property damage and murder as it has in the states. For me the minute you put a colour before any statement it becomes racist. Can ordinary people not just have an opinion without being labelled just because their opinion is different.


Nowhere in my post does it say that people who oppose BLM are automatically 'Far Right'. What it says is "if violence did become associated with taking a knee it would be because far right groups took the opportunity to counter protest and that descended into violence"

Far Right groups have a clearly demonstrable history of counter protesting race related protests and those counter protests becoming violent, from the NF in the 70s to the BNP recently.

Disagreeing with BLM is part of a democratic process and an expression of free speech. Counter protests that descend into violence are a tactic of Far Right groups.
Posted by: NorthseaMariner, September 22, 2020, 6:22pm; Reply: 121
[quote=36114]Politics has and always will be in sports.  If people are really that upset at players expressing a personal choice to send a statement over racial injustice, then maybe they should just stay away and let those who want to support the players on the pitch do so.

Well I only started this thread to find out if anyone knew how much longer “taking the knee” was to go on for. But as it’s gone on this far, I think, I obviously don’t know, that there is a great deal of pressure on people to take the knee, so as not to appear racist.
Just because you don’t go down on your knee, it doesn’t make you a racist, but reading on here, I think a lot would disagree.

Posted by: Humbercod, September 22, 2020, 6:43pm; Reply: 122
This entire thread feels like a discussion between white people.

If any of you get the chance, sit down with a black person and talk about their everyday experiences in the UK. Very few will have been violently and verbally abused because of their race but they will have been discriminated against many times every day - the way white people look at them, the subtle shifts in body language when a white person meets a black person, the subtle change of tone and words in a conversation. Many institutions that we use every day are designed by and for white people.

A black mother was interviewed on the TV recently and she said she feared for her pre-teen son because he was very close to the point where British society stopped seeing him as cute and started seeing him as a threat.

Walk a mile in a black person's shoes.


I actually work with a black person and I was surprised when he recently told me he’d only ever experienced racist abuse once in the 40 years since he moved to Grimsby, and that was from a young kid on the Nunny whilst working on a job there.
Posted by: Norseman, September 22, 2020, 6:50pm; Reply: 123
Problem is 1300 season tickets had been sold and 3 games played before they decided to take the knee. So if people do disagree then they have paid to show their disagreement. I agree if they knew the club were  going to support a movement many people disagree with then stay away. Unfortunately they are more likely to attend and voice their disagreement as staying away after spending almost £400 is not really an option
Perhaps the club could offer refunds to those, myself included who are opposed to supporting not the message but the ideology of the movement. Lets just stick with the EFL message Not today not any day that no one could oppose
Posted by: TheRealJohnLewis, September 22, 2020, 6:56pm; Reply: 124
Quoted from NorthseaMariner
[quote=36114]Politics has and always will be in sports.  If people are really that upset at players expressing a personal choice to send a statement over racial injustice, then maybe they should just stay away and let those who want to support the players on the pitch do so.

Well I only started this thread to find out if anyone knew how much longer “taking the knee” was to go on for. But as it’s gone on this far, I think, I obviously don’t know, that there is a great deal of pressure on people to take the knee, so as not to appear racist.
Just because you don’t go down on your knee, it doesn’t make you a racist, but reading on here, I think a lot would disagree.



I think there's a lot more pressure from those that are against the kneeling than those whom are for.  Just look at the previous games where they didn't take the knee, no one was bothered, no thread created saying they should have.  Those that are for taking the knee say it is the players choice, those against say they shouldn't take the knee and no choice should be given.

But it does raise the question if player X didn't want to take the knee would he feel like he has to? I'd like to think that within GTFC's dressing room that if a player didn't want to take a knee that he could have an open and honest conversation with the senior members of the squad (Macca, Hendrie, Waterfall and Green) to explain why and they would accept his reasoning, whilst also explaining why it is important for the player who do wish to take a knee.  

It is my belief than the players are not being cohersed into taking a knee and that they are doing it because they want to and they are showing solidarity against racism by doing so.

Edit:  If someone is so anti racisal equality then are they not racist? They are certainly against freedom of free will and personal choice.
Posted by: pen penfras, September 22, 2020, 7:18pm; Reply: 125
Quoted from Norseman
Problem is 1300 season tickets had been sold and 3 games played before they decided to take the knee. So if people do disagree then they have paid to show their disagreement. I agree if they knew the club were  going to support a movement many people disagree with then stay away. Unfortunately they are more likely to attend and voice their disagreement as staying away after spending almost £400 is not really an option
Perhaps the club could offer refunds to those, myself included who are opposed to supporting not the message but the ideology of the movement. Lets just stick with the EFL message Not today not any day that no one could oppose


This is not a club decision, clubs are rightly staying impartial to this and allowing the players to make their own decision. You can see from this thread what would happen if the club stated their support either for or against taking the knee. To turn your back on your club because the players want to do a symbolic gesture that hurts nobody is crazy. Whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant, we're all Grimsby Town fans, and I don't think anybody would say that they don't want equality, regardless of what the kneeling means to you or other people.
Posted by: pen penfras, September 22, 2020, 7:20pm; Reply: 126


Nowhere in my post does it say that people who oppose BLM are automatically 'Far Right'. What it says is "if violence did become associated with taking a knee it would be because far right groups took the opportunity to counter protest and that descended into violence"

Far Right groups have a clearly demonstrable history of counter protesting race related protests and those counter protests becoming violent, from the NF in the 70s to the BNP recently.

Disagreeing with BLM is part of a democratic process and an expression of free speech. Counter protests that descend into violence are a tactic of Far Right groups.


Taking a knee is associated with BLM, and they made themselves associated with violence quite a bit before any ignorant skinheads started turning up to cause trouble.
Posted by: NorthseaMariner, September 22, 2020, 7:33pm; Reply: 127
Well I have a Nigerian friend and the only problem he has had in this country is people being afraid of offending him and so not really being themselves.
Posted by: Sandford1981, September 22, 2020, 7:46pm; Reply: 128
Quoted from Humbercod


I actually work with a black person and I was surprised when he recently told me he’d only ever experienced racist abuse once in the 40 years since he moved to Grimsby, and that was from a young kid on the Nunny whilst working on a job there.


Quoted from NorthseaMariner

Well I have a Nigerian friend and the only problem he has had in this country is people being afraid of offending him and so not really being themselves.


Hilarious!
Posted by: Humbercod, September 22, 2020, 8:00pm; Reply: 129
Quoted from Sandford1981




Hilarious!


Why?

Is this not supposed to be in the scipt? This is what he told me in a recent conversation do you think he’s lying to me?🤯
Posted by: male private Nale, September 22, 2020, 8:18pm; Reply: 130
Quoted from Sandford1981




Hilarious!


Touché, quite the wordsmith  
Posted by: RichMariner, September 22, 2020, 9:03pm; Reply: 131
Quoted from Humbercod


Why?

Is this not supposed to be in the scipt? This is what he told me in a recent conversation do you think he’s lying to me?🤯


I think it's because we're using two people as examples. As sample sizes go (in order to draw more accurate conclusions) you need about 10% of the black population in the UK. There are about 2 million people who identify themselves as black living in the UK.

So once you've asked 200,000 black people what their experiences of racism are in this country, then we'll start to get some accuracy.
Posted by: RichMariner, September 22, 2020, 9:10pm; Reply: 132
Quoted from male private Nale


Works both ways that, I presume you have never lived in heavily populated black areas, I do not condone any racism, have friends and workmates of all ethnicities but to say walk a mile in a black persons shoes you should also try walking a mile in a white persons shoes living amongst blacks before you mount your soap box.


If you've walked a mile in a white person's shoes within a black community and experienced racism then surely, surely, that would help you empathise with their current situation and the BLM campaign in general?

I think this is a very clumsy way of looking at this. The problem for many of us is that we simply do not truly know what it's like to switch the TV on and not recognise people similar to us; not to see people of our race in the top jobs at big businesses. We don't know what it's like to be judged every single minute of the day, with passing glances in the street, not being looked at in the eye by someone selling you a newspaper, or not being given a job because your CV was put in the bin on the strength of your unusual name.

I don't know what any of that feels like.
Posted by: Vance Warner, September 22, 2020, 9:25pm; Reply: 133
Jesus this thread highlights what a mess this country has got itself in. People suggesting violence because of a peaceful protest they don’t agree with. I really think if this had taken place ten years ago it wouldn’t have been an issue but a decade of deliberate division by those in charge and racist scaremongering in the media has led to this. Surely even if you don’t agree with everything about BLM and think the name sends the wrong message then you can still appreciate that equality for all is a good thing and that actions by players are well intentioned.
Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, September 22, 2020, 9:46pm; Reply: 134
Quoted from RichMariner


If you've walked a mile in a white person's shoes within a black community and experienced racism then surely, surely, that would help you empathise with their current situation and the BLM campaign in general?

I think this is a very clumsy way of looking at this. The problem for many of us is that we simply do not truly know what it's like to switch the TV on and not recognise people similar to us; not to see people of our race in the top jobs at big businesses. We don't know what it's like to be judged every single minute of the day, with passing glances in the street, not being looked at in the eye by someone selling you a newspaper, or not being given a job because your CV was put in the bin on the strength of your unusual name.

I don't know what any of that feels like.

Steady on!

The UK is one of the most diverse countries in the world and we have some of the most stringent equality laws in the world.The vast proportion of the public are quite naturally absolutely fine with people of any creed and there are people of all races and colours in top jobs in industry,  commerce and politics.



Posted by: Rodley Mariner, September 22, 2020, 9:54pm; Reply: 135
There you go. Some black people have good jobs and Lew is naturally 'absolutely fine' with it. Job done, institutional racism no more, stop banging on about it.
Posted by: pizzzza, September 22, 2020, 10:10pm; Reply: 136
Someone's gonna take my knee if this thread continues much longer.
Posted by: Humbercod, September 22, 2020, 10:13pm; Reply: 137
Quoted from RichMariner


If you've walked a mile in a white person's shoes within a black community and experienced racism then surely, surely, that would help you empathise with their current situation and the BLM campaign in general?

I think this is a very clumsy way of looking at this. The problem for many of us is that we simply do not truly know what it's like to switch the TV on and not recognise people similar to us; not to see people of our race in the top jobs at big businesses. We don't know what it's like to be judged every single minute of the day, with passing glances in the street, not being looked at in the eye by someone selling you a newspaper, or not being given a job because your CV was put in the bin on the strength of your unusual name.

I don't know what any of that feels like.


I suppose if You moved to Japan you would experience something similar as a white man simply because You’re different to the general population, which is what the early black and Asian communities would of experienced. But generations later we now have towns and city’s that are very diverse where Black people thrive and are not eyeballed. It’s all about the ethnic numbers pass a black man walking down Winchester avenue and you may be forgiven for looking twice, similarly a white man walking through the back streets of Saville Town Yorkshire would not surprisingly  get more than the odd glance.
Posted by: male private Nale, September 22, 2020, 10:27pm; Reply: 138
Quoted from RichMariner


If you've walked a mile in a white person's shoes within a black community and experienced racism then surely, surely, that would help you empathise with their current situation and the BLM campaign in general?

I think this is a very clumsy way of looking at this. The problem for many of us is that we simply do not truly know what it's like to switch the TV on and not recognise people similar to us; not to see people of our race in the top jobs at big businesses. We don't know what it's like to be judged every single minute of the day, with passing glances in the street, not being looked at in the eye by someone selling you a newspaper, or not being given a job because your CV was put in the bin on the strength of your unusual name.

I don't know what any of that feels like.


Kick it Out campaign was about racism, BLM is not about racism, you obviously aren't aware or don't understand the fundamentals of BLM. Also what they hell are you on about switching on the TV and not recognising people similar.... you haven't watched much television over the past few years and the drive for diversity then.
Posted by: male private Nale, September 22, 2020, 10:29pm; Reply: 139
Quoted from pizzzza
Someone's gonna take my knee if this thread continues much longer.


Ha did you get to page 14 of thread under duress??
Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, September 22, 2020, 10:29pm; Reply: 140
Quoted from Rodley Mariner
There you go. Some black people have good jobs and Lew is naturally 'absolutely fine' with it. Job done, institutional racism no more, stop banging on about it.


And there you have it. Rodders putting his own interpretation on what I said which was certainly not "some black people have good jobs"

I am absolutely fine with the UK being one of the most diverse countries in the world with the most stringent equality laws in the world. I am also absolutely fine with the fact that people of all colours and races reach the very top in all aspects of society.
Posted by: Rodley Mariner, September 22, 2020, 10:40pm; Reply: 141
"Absolutely fine".
Posted by: rancido, September 23, 2020, 3:25pm; Reply: 142
Just as a point of interest, when fans are eventually allowed back into football grounds should they be expected to "kneel " if the players do? What if some fans don't then will they be shamed and labelled racist?
Posted by: Chrisblor, September 23, 2020, 3:40pm; Reply: 143
Quoted from rancido
Just as a point of interest, when fans are eventually allowed back into football grounds should they be expected to "kneel " if the players do? What if some fans don't then will they be shamed and labelled racist?


I'll sit down and clap them, hope this helps m8
Posted by: TheRealJohnLewis, September 23, 2020, 4:11pm; Reply: 144
Quoted from rancido
Just as a point of interest, when fans are eventually allowed back into football grounds should they be expected to "kneel " if the players do? What if some fans don't then will they be shamed and labelled racist?


Just like the players, you can do whatever you want.

Posted by: rancido, September 23, 2020, 4:49pm; Reply: 145
Quoted from TheRealJohnLewis


Just like the players, you can do whatever you want.



That's what I thought but it does appear that footballers, and indeed other sportsmen, have been criticised for not "taking the knee".
Posted by: TheRealJohnLewis, September 23, 2020, 4:53pm; Reply: 146
Quoted from rancido


That's what I thought but it does appear that footballers, and indeed other sportsmen, have been criticised for not "taking the knee".


I've only seen critism for taking the knee, I've seen nothing for people not taking the knee.  I would say you are making it up.

Posted by: Heswall Mariner, September 23, 2020, 5:05pm; Reply: 147
It's a personal choice - whether you kneel or not - club/league legislation should not enter into it.
Players should not be criticised for taking up either option - we are supposed to live in a free society.
Posted by: Heswall Mariner, September 23, 2020, 5:07pm; Reply: 148
It's a personal choice - whether you kneel or not - club/league legislation should not enter into it.
Players should not be criticised for taking up either option - we are supposed to live in a free society.
Posted by: Norseman, September 23, 2020, 5:13pm; Reply: 149
Any ideas on why? If the players feel so strongly about kneeling it took 3 games for them to do it
Posted by: Rodley Mariner, September 23, 2020, 5:37pm; Reply: 150
Was there even a mention on here when we didn't take the knee against Morecambe? I certainly don't remember anybody saying they wouldn't go any more or that they'd turn their backs if we didn't do it?
Posted by: friskneymariner, September 23, 2020, 5:39pm; Reply: 151
If I kneel I shall be there all match.
Posted by: rancido, September 23, 2020, 7:30pm; Reply: 152
Quoted from TheRealJohnLewis


I've only seen critism for taking the knee, I've seen nothing for people not taking the knee.  I would say you are making it up.



I recall quite recently a West Indian cricketer criticised the England and Australian cricketers for not taking the the knee prior to a game - and that certainly wasn't made up! But f you think I made it up then check it out and prove me wrong.
Posted by: rancido, September 23, 2020, 7:36pm; Reply: 153
Quoted from rancido


I recall quite recently a West Indian cricketer criticised the England and Australian cricketers for not taking the the knee prior to a game - and that certainly wasn't made up! But f you think I made it up then check it out and prove me wrong.


The West Indian cricketer was Michael Holding and it was reported in several national newspapers. I won't hold my breath waiting for an apology for  allegedly "making this up".
Posted by: Withnail, September 23, 2020, 7:49pm; Reply: 154
https://www.bbc.com/sport/amp/rugby-union/53895191
Posted by: TheRealJohnLewis, September 23, 2020, 7:49pm; Reply: 155
Quoted from rancido


The West Indian cricketer was Michael Holding and it was reported in several national newspapers. I won't hold my breath waiting for an apology for  allegedly "making this up".


Footballers, other sportsmen? Michael Holding critised the "lame excuses" and not the actual act of not kneeling.  Even if you do find 2 or 3 quotes to back up your very weak point, which I doubt, the pressure of enforcement is clearly coming from the anti kneeling side.  


Posted by: rancido, September 23, 2020, 8:00pm; Reply: 156
Quoted from TheRealJohnLewis


Footballers, other sportsmen? Michael Holding critised the "lame excuses" and not the actual act of not kneeling.  Even if you do find 2 or 3 quotes to back up your very weak point, which I doubt, the pressure of enforcement is clearly coming from the anti kneeling side.  




Did they or did they not "take the knee"? It was reported on BBC Sports, Sky Sports, The Guardian, The Cricketer, Wisden, Daily Telegraph and Evening Express. It even made The Belfast Times, Indiatoday and even The Hindustani Times! But of course I made it up.
Posted by: Norseman, September 23, 2020, 8:17pm; Reply: 157
2 red crosses to my question not sure why. Do people red cross you if they don't like the question. Could be they don't like or know the answer. Still no ideas though why people with free choice and such strong feelings played 3 competitive games without displaying that support and strength of feeling to BLM. it's just a question folks

Posted by: RichMariner, September 23, 2020, 10:26pm; Reply: 158
Quoted from male private Nale


Kick it Out campaign was about racism, BLM is not about racism, you obviously aren't aware or don't understand the fundamentals of BLM. Also what they hell are you on about switching on the TV and not recognising people similar.... you haven't watched much television over the past few years and the drive for diversity then.


So I don't understand the fundamentals of BLM and you do? And you're saying BLM is not about racism? Blimey.

I mean, wow.

It's about striving for liberation, freedom, equality — three things they wouldn't have to strive for if racism wasn't a thing.

But it is. Institutionally and politically. Inherently. Casually. Sometimes unintentionally. But if you want to simplify it to suit your own limits then fine. Continue living in your small world.
Posted by: pen penfras, September 24, 2020, 7:58am; Reply: 159
Quoted from TheRealJohnLewis


I've only seen critism for taking the knee, I've seen nothing for people not taking the knee.  I would say you are making it up.



The I guess you only read this board. Formula 1 had a huge ding dong when drivers refused to take the knee, they've now stopped moaning, but still saying they should all do it. QPR and I think Coventry have been making national news for not doing it in their game. Cricket has had a spat, I think rugby has.
Posted by: Black_and_White_Bear, September 24, 2020, 10:12am; Reply: 160
Quoted from Norseman
2 red crosses to my question not sure why. Do people red cross you if they don't like the question. Could be they don't like or know the answer. Still no ideas though why people with free choice and such strong feelings played 3 competitive games without displaying that support and strength of feeling to BLM. it's just a question folks



What I don't understand is why people look to see if they have been 'red crossed'.  What does it matter, will you get kicked off the Fishy, I doubt it.  I have no idea how many red crosses I have and could care less!

Posted by: Rick12, September 24, 2020, 10:31am; Reply: 161


What I don't understand is why people look to see if they have been 'red crossed'.  What does it matter, will you get kicked off the Fishy, I doubt it.  I have no idea how many red crosses I have and could care less!


Good on you. Like in life not everyone will like or agree with you. Look at Jesus for one back in  the day. Hence got killed for views that went against the popular ideology of his day.


Posted by: BobbyCummingsTackle, September 24, 2020, 10:44am; Reply: 162
Quoted from Rick12

Good on you. Like in life not everyone will like or agree with you. Look at Jesus for one back in  the day. Hence got killed for views that went against the popular ideology of his day.




If you believe the story of Jesus....
Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, September 24, 2020, 10:50am; Reply: 163
Quoted from Rick12

Good on you. Like in life not everyone will like or agree with you. Look at Jesus for one back in  the day. Hence got killed for views that went against the popular ideology of his day.




The ultimate red cross  eh?

Posted by: Rick12, September 24, 2020, 10:53am; Reply: 164


If you believe the story of Jesus....
Which more and more are doing Bobby inadvertently or consciously  .Hence society is changing now for the better .Hence black lives matter movement, more acceptance for gay people etc etc. Things will only move in a better direction .Hence the power for good as noted is something which in the long run will always overcome the bad.

This is something Jesus stood for .Trying to create a better society for all be it the oppressed the marginalised, poor  etc etc.

Posted by: Rick12, September 24, 2020, 10:54am; Reply: 165


The ultimate red cross  eh?

Yes Ron. Eloquently put. :) ;)

Posted by: codcheeky, September 24, 2020, 12:13pm; Reply: 166
Quoted from Rick12
Which more and more are doing Bobby inadvertently or consciously  .Hence society is changing now for the better .Hence black lives matter movement, more acceptance for gay people etc etc. Things will only move in a better direction .Hence the power for good as noted is something which in the long run will always overcome the bad.

This is something Jesus stood for .Trying to create a better society for all be it the oppressed the marginalised, poor  etc etc.



Jesus was a Marxist in his ideology as was Robin Hiod
Posted by: smokey111, September 24, 2020, 12:35pm; Reply: 167
Quoted from codcheeky


Jesus was a Marxist in his ideology as was Robin Hiod


I would prefer to view him as a socialist.
Posted by: Rick12, September 24, 2020, 12:50pm; Reply: 168
Quoted from codcheeky


Jesus was a Marxist in his ideology as was Robin Hiod
Maybe maybe not. But a good man 😉

Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, September 24, 2020, 1:07pm; Reply: 169
Quoted from codcheeky


Jesus was a Marxist in his ideology as was Robin Hiod


Bearing in mind their relative dates of birth I would have thought it was more appropriate to call Marx and Robin Hood Christians. ;)

Posted by: Humbercod, September 24, 2020, 1:34pm; Reply: 170
Quoted from Rick12
Maybe maybe not. But a good man 😉



So says some, others might say a charlatan 😉
Posted by: Rick12, September 24, 2020, 1:40pm; Reply: 171
Quoted from Humbercod


So says some, others might say a charlatan 😉
Yes but you can't please them all
😉
Posted by: ska face, September 24, 2020, 2:17pm; Reply: 172
Quoted from Rick12
Which more and more are doing Bobby inadvertently or consciously  .Hence society is changing now for the better .Hence black lives matter movement, more acceptance for gay people etc etc.


lmao yeah the famously pro-gay forces of religion! Have a day off
Posted by: Rick12, September 24, 2020, 4:00pm; Reply: 173
Quoted from ska face


lmao yeah the famously pro-gay forces of religion! Have a day off
Thats even changing Ska Face believe it or not .

Pope Francis.

"No one should be marginalised for being gay".
Posted by: Black_and_White_Bear, September 24, 2020, 4:55pm; Reply: 174
Quoted from Rick12

Good on you. Like in life not everyone will like or agree with you. Look at Jesus for one back in  the day. Hence got killed for views that went against the popular ideology of his day.




Who?

Posted by: Rodley Mariner, September 24, 2020, 4:58pm; Reply: 175
Some black people get decent jobs now so there can't be any racism....


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-54281111



Posted by: Rick12, September 24, 2020, 5:00pm; Reply: 176


Who?






One of my favourite pictures of Christ the Redeemer statue in Brazil.
Posted by: Black_and_White_Bear, September 24, 2020, 5:38pm; Reply: 177
No such person.
Posted by: Rick12, September 24, 2020, 6:16pm; Reply: 178
No such person.
Surprised and saddened to hear you have said that. I dont agree with you but  hope one day you can come round and see that he did exist. Either in this life or the next.

Posted by: scrumble, September 24, 2020, 6:38pm; Reply: 179
I don't doubt that there was a Jesus, but he wasn't the messiah, he was just a very naughty boy.
Posted by: Rick12, September 24, 2020, 6:46pm; Reply: 180
Quoted from scrumble
I don't doubt that there was a Jesus, but he wasn't the messiah, he was just a very naughty boy.
;)

Noones perfect .Not even Jesus.

In all seriousness though I still believe something divine caused this universe to begin.

Posted by: grimsbybrown, September 24, 2020, 7:16pm; Reply: 181
Quoted from scrumble
I don't doubt that there was a Jesus, but he wasn't the messiah, he was just a very naughty boy.


I think we're getting off topic here - but FWIW no serious historian disputes Jesus existed...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/14/what-is-the-historical-evidence-that-jesus-christ-lived-and-died

As you say, whether he was who he claimed to be is an entirely different question.

But, one thing we do know, he wasn't white, didn't have blue eyes and blonde hair, as anyone who went to / had to go to Sunday school might recall from picture books of 'Swedish Jesus'.  Our biases can play out in subtle ways.

Back to taking the knee though, it's a symbolic gesture, that I suspect most people wouldn't connect with some of the political associations mentioned (why should they?), it's a way of expressing, 'This is bad, it should stop.'  

And it should.
Posted by: codcheeky, September 24, 2020, 7:49pm; Reply: 182
Quoted from Rodley Mariner
Some black people get decent jobs now so there can't be any racism....


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-54281111





This is why this gesture  is needed, that this should happen in our country is a disgrace, a blatant example of institutional racism, how do those on here who say it doesn’t exist in this country defend this?
Posted by: cardiffmariner, September 24, 2020, 11:01pm; Reply: 183
Quoted from Rick12
;)

Noones perfect .Not even Jesus.

In all seriousness though I still believe something divine caused this universe to begin.



I don’t. And without wishing to offend, I think it’s important to note that Christianity as an organised religion has spent hundreds of years suppressing and oppressing minorities who don’t fit their own notion of what is/isn’t an acceptable way to live.

By all means support the drive for equality this world needs but don’t pretend that Christ and Christianity are in some way integral to it.

Christian, Muslim, atheist (et al): none of these labels mean anything in and of themselves.
Posted by: arryarryarry, September 25, 2020, 2:42am; Reply: 184
Quoted from cardiffmariner


I don’t. And without wishing to offend, I think it’s important to note that Christianity as an organised religion has spent hundreds of years suppressing and oppressing minorities who don’t fit their own notion of what is/isn’t an acceptable way to live.

By all means support the drive for equality this world needs but don’t pretend that Christ and Christianity are in some way integral to it.

Christian, Muslim, atheist (et al): none of these labels mean anything in and of themselves.


You will probably find that most religions have surpressed some minorities not just in the past but currently especially in the Middle East.

Personally I think religion and worshiping a mythical Diety is a load of balderdash.
Posted by: Black_and_White_Bear, September 25, 2020, 8:39am; Reply: 185
Religion = money!  Lots and lots of it.
Posted by: rancido, September 25, 2020, 8:59am; Reply: 186
Quoted from codcheeky


This is why this gesture  is needed, that this should happen in our country is a disgrace, a blatant example of institutional racism, how do those on here who say it doesn’t exist in this country defend this?


It's not the gesture that is important but the action that counts. Like all symbolism it is meaningless without the deeds to correct the wrong. You only have to look back to Germany in the 30's to see symbolism and gestures being hijacked and used to enforce a political doctrine.
Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, September 25, 2020, 9:58am; Reply: 187
Quoted from rancido


It's not the gesture that is important but the action that counts. Like all symbolism it is meaningless without the deeds to correct the wrong. You only have to look back to Germany in the 30's to see symbolism and gestures being hijacked and used to enforce a political doctrine.


Quite. The swastika was a symbol of good fortune and approbation in both western and eastern cultures until the Nazis adopted it in the 1920s.

Gestures and symbols are a means of solidarity and more importantly of ensuring solidarity, hence an army salutes and a crowd cries Seig Heil or wears a particular scarf or headgear or has a particular form of greeting. Stalinist art contains wonderful examples of such exhortations, highly prized and valued today. BLM kneeling is no different, to most people just a gesture they can do or not do, mean or not mean. Subtle because unlike an arm gesture it implies no obvious threat. But BLM itself ......?

The 25 point manifesto of the National Socialist Party makes perfect economic, social, judicial and non-violent sense to a German in the 1920s. The fact that it was ignored by the leadership almost immediately is neither here nor there ... is it?
Posted by: ska face, September 25, 2020, 10:07am; Reply: 188
“BLM are the Nazis” is a particularly dim take, even for the low standards of this forum.
Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, September 25, 2020, 10:14am; Reply: 189
Quoted from ska face
“BLM are the Nazis” is a particularly dim take, even for the low standards of this forum.


Failing to read properly is even dimmer.

Posted by: Black_and_White_Bear, September 25, 2020, 10:38am; Reply: 190
"Subtle because unlike an arm gesture it implies no obvious threat."

The thing is, you are now seeing many footballers and other sportsmen including the 'black power salute' in the 'taking of the knee'.
Posted by: ska face, September 25, 2020, 10:45am; Reply: 191


Failing to read properly is even dimmer.



What threat does the BLM movement pose then? At least have the courage to say it rather than just imply it.

From what I can see, a movement for racial equality only poses a threat to those who don’t believe in the idea. Is that what you’re afraid of?
Posted by: ginnywings, September 25, 2020, 10:52am; Reply: 192
Quoted from arryarryarry


You will probably find that most religions have surpressed some minorities not just in the past but currently especially in the Middle East.

Personally I think religion and worshiping a mythical Diety is a load of balderdash.


Wholeheartedly agree with this post.

To me, religion is just another form of oppression, along with racism, poverty, poor education and numerous other ways the majority are kept under the heel by the wealthy and privileged minority.

The world is getting more right wing and xenophobic, with people retreating behind their borders and adopting a parochial attitude toward others they don't see as "like us".

While we are fighting amongst ourselves, we are not asking the questions of our leaders that we should be asking. We even voted in a lying, racist xenophobe to rule over us. The mind boggles.
Posted by: rancido, September 25, 2020, 11:11am; Reply: 193
Quoted from ska face


What threat does the BLM movement pose then? At least have the courage to say it rather than just imply it.

From what I can see, a movement for racial equality only poses a threat to those who don’t believe in the idea. Is that what you’re afraid of?


If you had taken the time to read my post properly you would have seen that I implied actions are more important than gestures or symbols. Actions are a positive move but symbols and gestures can be hijacked and used to imply something totally different from the original purpose.
You ask what has Naziism got to do with BLM, well consider this. As part of the BLM movement there is a growing urge to shame families, pull down statues and re-name buildings that have any connection with past involvement in slavery and racism. On April 8th, 1933, the German Student Union proudly and fervently announced that there was to be nationwide celebration ; the burning of books which did not meet the standards of the National Socialist Third Reich. In other words re-write or eliminate history that involves anything that contradicts or opposes their political views. We also have a growing condemnation of J K Rowling for her supposed anti transgender views including calls by some people to burn her books, Jedward quoted in the Irish Press Sept 16th.
Posted by: codcheeky, September 25, 2020, 11:28am; Reply: 194
Quoted from rancido


It's not the gesture that is important but the action that counts. Like all symbolism it is meaningless without the deeds to correct the wrong. You only have to look back to Germany in the 30's to see symbolism and gestures being hijacked and used to enforce a political doctrine.


Perhaps the the biggest parallel is the right wing hatred and propaganda that is spreading. When people echo that those calling out for fairness and more equality  are the new fascists something has gone very wrong The media is owned by the super rich and works for those like themselves.
Equality  should be a right regardless of colour shade, sex or religion, everyone should have equality of opportunity, What would you say if it was your Daughter or Granddaughter mistaken 3 times in one day for a defendant rather than a solicitor because of the colour of her skin? Would you like to tell your kids they are going to be treated differently in this country their whole life because they have a different shade of skin?
My son in law is black if they have a child it will face this, the child will be seen as lesser by too many in this country because it will not be as white, if you do not thing this is wrong I pity you,
I salute those brave enough from my football club willing to take a knee to point out that this injustice is something that needs to be put right, that they kneel despite the pressure of the right wing keyboard snowflakes who fear peaceful protest in a democracy is a good thing, just as I abhor that a symbol of our club should be given to a racist at this of all times for cheap publicity
Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, September 25, 2020, 11:32am; Reply: 195
Quoted from ska face


What threat does the BLM movement pose then? At least have the courage to say it rather than just imply it.

From what I can see, a movement for racial equality only poses a threat to those who don’t believe in the idea. Is that what you’re afraid of?


The problem is that you consistently fail to read what people write and just reply with some insulting or trite comment. Several posters including me have shown what the BLM has on its official website and have pointed out its illogicalities. People have also pointed out the links between BLM and undemocratic extremist groups. If you have not bothered to read them it is useless to repeat them. If you still think BLM is a simple movement for racial equality then you are ignoring a lot of behind the scenes activity.

But in this instance the issue was not about that but about gestures and symbols ...... and it is pointed out as a truism that any gesture, symbol or manifesto used for unity and however well-meaning can be just as easily ignored or misused by the leadership.

Posted by: rancido, September 25, 2020, 11:45am; Reply: 196


The problem is that you consistently fail to read what people write and just reply with some insulting or trite comment. Several posters including me have shown what the BLM has on its official website and have pointed out its illogicalities. People have also pointed out the links between BLM and undemocratic extremist groups. If you have not bothered to read them it is useless to repeat them. If you still think BLM is a simple movement for racial equality then you are ignoring a lot of behind the scenes activity.

But in this instance the issue was not about that but about gestures and symbols ...... and it is pointed out as a truism that any gesture, symbol or manifesto used for unity and however well-meaning can be just as easily ignored or misused by the leadership.



Spot on RRFC - there are none so blind as those that will not see.
Posted by: rancido, September 25, 2020, 11:51am; Reply: 197
Quoted from codcheeky


Perhaps the the biggest parallel is the right wing hatred and propaganda that is spreading. When people echo that those calling out for fairness and more equality  are the new fascists something has gone very wrong The media is owned by the super rich and works for those like themselves.
Equality  should be a right regardless of colour shade, sex or religion, everyone should have equality of opportunity, What would you say if it was your Daughter or Granddaughter mistaken 3 times in one day for a defendant rather than a solicitor because of the colour of her skin? Would you like to tell your kids they are going to be treated differently in this country their whole life because they have a different shade of skin?
My son in law is black if they have a child it will face this, the child will be seen as lesser by too many in this country because it will not be as white, if you do not thing this is wrong I pity you,
I salute those brave enough from my football club willing to take a knee to point out that this injustice is something that needs to be put right, that they kneel despite the pressure of the right wing keyboard snowflakes who fear peaceful protest in a democracy is a good thing, just as I abhor that a symbol of our club should be given to a racist at this of all times for cheap publicity


I am not a racist or condone racism. I am also intelligent enough to know that racism isn't just a one way thing. There is anti white racism in predominantly black populated countries (Zimbabwe), racism between different Asian countries (Pakistan and India).
Posted by: ska face, September 25, 2020, 11:56am; Reply: 198
Quoted from rancido


If you had taken the time to read my post properly


If I’d taken any more time to read your post I fear I would’ve had a stroke, as I nearly did reading your latest load of drivel.

Quoted Text
You ask what has Naziism got to do with BLM


No I never.

Quoted Text
well consider this. As part of the BLM movement there is a growing urge to shame families, pull down statues and re-name buildings that have any connection with past involvement in slavery and racism. On April 8th, 1933, the German Student Union proudly and fervently announced that there was to be nationwide celebration ; the burning of books which did not meet the standards of the National Socialist Third Reich. In other words re-write or eliminate history that involves anything that contradicts or opposes their political views. We also have a growing condemnation of J K Rowling for her supposed anti transgender views including calls by some people to burn her books, Jedward quoted in the Irish Press Sept 16th.


I have considered it and consider it to be a garbage. I’m afraid you’re beyond help if you think black people removing statues of slave traders is analogous to the burning of books described by the burners themselves as a “response to a worldwide Jewish smear campaign against Germany and an affirmation of traditional German values”.

This interview is also a decent read if you’re worried that Jedward are coming for JK Rowling’s head - https://www.newstatesman.com/international/2020/09/judith-butler-culture-wars-jk-rowling-and-living-anti-intellectual-times
Posted by: rancido, September 25, 2020, 12:09pm; Reply: 199
Quoted from ska face
“BLM are the Nazis” is a particularly dim take, even for the low standards of this forum.


I never said "BLM are the Nazis" - obviously a misquote that you never read either!
Posted by: codcheeky, September 25, 2020, 12:15pm; Reply: 200
Quoted from rancido


I am not a racist or condone racism. I am also intelligent enough to know that racism isn't just a one way thing. There is anti white racism in predominantly black populated countries (Zimbabwe), racism between different Asian countries (Pakistan and India).


What has this to do with anything I posted?
Whataboutery at its best, racism in other countries doesn’t make it ok here.
Zimbabwe is a strange example, would you not be aggrieved if an African country invaded the U.K. stole all the arable land and treated the rest of us like second class citizens with no rights? Perhaps you a want a return for the days of empire because they were all better off under us after all
Posted by: Marinerz93, September 25, 2020, 12:22pm; Reply: 201
Taking the knee is akin to face book likes, and for most the novelty has either worn off or lost it's meaning. The BLM movement lost it's momentum and general support when they started Burning Looting and Murdering.

All lives matter and they should have done more to address the methods used by the Police to either detain or restrain people. Policing in the US is far more dangerous than policing in the UK. The right to carry arms means anyone may be armed and criminals often carry guns in the US, so anyone the Police want to arrest or detain can depending either on their mental state or substance / intoxication can mean a US police officer can face a life or death situation every time they are called to an incident, especially if the person of interest has a history that is either violent, drunk or on drugs.

The racism in the US is far more widespread and deep rooted than the UK, more than people realise. The disgraceful Tuskegee Syphilis Study using black males to see what happens when Syphilis runs it's course without treatment was horrific and as bad as slavery.

Why do the BLM protestors need to burn and loot when they have a wealthy beneficiary funding them in good ol George Soros, you know the chap who funds Antifa.
Posted by: rancido, September 25, 2020, 1:26pm; Reply: 202
Quoted from codcheeky


What has this to do with anything I posted?
Whataboutery at its best, racism in other countries doesn’t make it ok here.
Zimbabwe is a strange example, would you not be aggrieved if an African country invaded the U.K. stole all the arable land and treated the rest of us like second class citizens with no rights? Perhaps you a want a return for the days of empire because they were all better off under us after all


But now the boot is on the other foot  The roles have been reverses and the white population is now oppressed. The oppressed have become the oppressors an that's ok is it. However you look at it, it is racism and in this case it becomes White Lives Matter.
Posted by: RichMariner, September 25, 2020, 2:29pm; Reply: 203
Quoted from rancido


But now the boot is on the other foot  The roles have been reverses and the white population is now oppressed. The oppressed have become the oppressors an that's ok is it. However you look at it, it is racism and in this case it becomes White Lives Matter.


My in-laws are from Zim, they still have family over there, and you're making very broad statements. Like many other countries, there are complexities to the balance of power, many we don't see. But we only see what we want to believe if it suits our own agenda.

The situation in Zim is very different. Historically and politically. It's not as simple as saying the boot is on the other foot. They had one of the world's most violent dictators in charge, responsible for millions of deaths — including thousands of Ndebele civilians.

It's not 'White Lives Matter'. The vast majority of Zim's population were/are fighting against Mugabe and his legacy. It ain't about blacks waging war against whites or role reversals; this is about one man's quest for power.
Posted by: Sandford1981, September 25, 2020, 3:53pm; Reply: 204

I worry for any person whose response to the slogan ‘black lives matter’ is to say ‘all lives or white lives matter’.

The slogan regardless of its now associated politics, wasn’t to say black lives matter more or to infer by exclusion that white lives don’t matter, it was to say black lives matter-too. This is because although this should be a given, it isn’t.

Irrespective of whether we chose to see it or not, racism is alive and well, institutionally, systemically and on a personal level too.

The whataboutery of pointing out that racism exists elsewhere or that it’s not as bad here, as in another country, is a diversionary tactic born out of ignorance and denial. It’s akin to the responses I get from my 7 year old when I’ve caught her doing something she shouldn’t be.

It seems to me, it’s avoidance of the real issues because it’s easier to deflect attention, than look in the mirror, admit the unpalatable and make changes.

Hopefully, if the symbolic ‘taking of the knee’ is to end, I hope that its end is the beginning of real action, as it’s long over due, however, I will not hold my breath.





Posted by: arryarryarry, September 25, 2020, 4:13pm; Reply: 205
Quoted from Sandford1981

I worry for any person whose response to the slogan ‘black lives matter’ is to say ‘all lives or white lives matter’.

The slogan regardless of its now associated politics, wasn’t to say black lives matter more or to infer by exclusion that white lives don’t matter, it was to say black lives matter-too. This is because although this should be a given, it isn’t.

Irrespective of whether we chose to see it or not, racism is alive and well, institutionally, systemically and on a personal level too.

The whataboutery of pointing out that racism exists elsewhere or that it’s not as bad here, as in another country, is a diversionary tactic born out of ignorance and denial. It’s akin to the responses I get from my 7 year old when I’ve caught her doing something she shouldn’t be.

It seems to me, it’s avoidance of the real issues because it’s easier to deflect attention, than look in the mirror, admit the unpalatable and make changes.

Hopefully, if the symbolic ‘taking of the knee’ is to end, I hope that its end is the beginning of real action, as it’s long over due, however, I will not hold my breath.




There has been racism and oppression for centuries.

The Romans invaded Britain and oppressed the local population and likely killed many of them. Should we rip up the A1, destroy what is left of Hadrian's Wall or anything else that refers to the Romans.

If you think that professional footballers going down on one knee is going to end racism then you are sadly deluded.
Posted by: Marinerz93, September 25, 2020, 4:18pm; Reply: 206
Quoted from Sandford1981

I worry for any person whose response to the slogan ‘black lives matter’ is to say ‘all lives or white lives matter’.

The slogan regardless of its now associated politics, wasn’t to say black lives matter more or to infer by exclusion that white lives don’t matter, it was to say black lives matter-too. This is because although this should be a given, it isn’t.

Irrespective of whether we chose to see it or not, racism is alive and well, institutionally, systemically and on a personal level too.

The whataboutery of pointing out that racism exists elsewhere or that it’s not as bad here, as in another country, is a diversionary tactic born out of ignorance and denial. It’s akin to the responses I get from my 7 year old when I’ve caught her doing something she shouldn’t be.

It seems to me, it’s avoidance of the real issues because it’s easier to deflect attention, than look in the mirror, admit the unpalatable and make changes.

Hopefully, if the symbolic ‘taking of the knee’ is to end, I hope that its end is the beginning of real action, as it’s long over due, however, I will not hold my breath.



Black Lives Matter Too, that would have been a far better and more fitting slogan.

It would seem you are the ignorant one and in denial, there has been more done to combat racism in the UK than elsewhere, in the US there are plans from different groups who are planning for a race war, not a race riot, a race war and groups have been stock piling weapons for this.
Posted by: Sandford1981, September 25, 2020, 4:38pm; Reply: 207
Quoted from arryarryarry


There has been racism and oppression for centuries.

The Romans invaded Britain and oppressed the local population and likely killed many of them. Should we rip up the A1, destroy what is left of Hadrian's Wall or anything else that refers to the Romans.

If you think that professional footballers going down on one knee is going to end racism then you are sadly deluded.



I’m not quite sure what about my post suggests that I think taking the knee will end racism. I thought I’d made it clear that I hoped that if the symbolic taking of the knee was to end, it would give way to proper action and that I was pessimistic about that. My apologies if I did not make that clear enough.
Posted by: Sandford1981, September 25, 2020, 4:47pm; Reply: 208
Quoted from Marinerz93


Black Lives Matter Too, that would have been a far better and more fitting slogan.

It would seem you are the ignorant one and in denial, there has been more done to combat racism in the UK than elsewhere, in the US there are plans from different groups who are planning for a race war, not a race riot, a race war and groups have been stock piling weapons for this.


I can not profess to know all the combative measures taken by the U.K. to tackle racism or how we compare against other countries. So yes perhaps I’m ignorant in that sense. I do know that despite these measures, racism is still a massive issue and I think more needs to be done. Simple as that.

Posted by: arryarryarry, September 25, 2020, 5:03pm; Reply: 209
Quoted from Sandford1981



I’m not quite sure what about my post suggests that I think taking the knee will end racism. I thought I’d made it clear that I hoped that if the symbolic taking of the knee was to end, it would give way to proper action and that I was pessimistic about that. My apologies if I did not make that clear enough.


In your reply to me and to Marinerz93 you keep referring to proper action but don't suggest what.

Bland statements like that will do nothing.
Posted by: Marinerz93, September 25, 2020, 5:25pm; Reply: 210
Quoted from Sandford1981


I can not profess to know all the combative measures taken by the U.K. to tackle racism or how we compare against other countries. So yes perhaps I’m ignorant in that sense. I do know that despite these measures, racism is still a massive issue and I think more needs to be done. Simple as that.



Fair comments, there will always be an underlining issues with racism of any kind in any country in the world, I've lived and worked in a few from Cyprus, Italy, Turkey to the middle east. In each of these countries the local populace in general always had an ethnic group who they were racist towards.
Posted by: Sandford1981, September 25, 2020, 5:54pm; Reply: 211
Quoted from arryarryarry


In your reply to me and to Marinerz93 you keep referring to proper action but don't suggest what.

Bland statements like that will do nothing.


You’re right they’re about as useful and constructive as your tired and cliched responses.





Posted by: Sandford1981, September 25, 2020, 6:07pm; Reply: 212
Quoted from Marinerz93


Fair comments, there will always be an underlining issues with racism of any kind in any country in the world, I've lived and worked in a few from Cyprus, Italy, Turkey to the middle east. In each of these countries the local populace in general always had an ethnic group who they were racist towards.


I’m not as well travelled as you and don’t for one minute  doubt your experience. My perspective is a simple one; no matter how common it is currently, or has been historically and irrespective of where it takes place-it’s wrong.
Posted by: headingly_mariner, September 25, 2020, 8:42pm; Reply: 213
Quoted from Marinerz93


Fair comments, there will always be an underlining issues with racism of any kind in any country in the world, I've lived and worked in a few from Cyprus, Italy, Turkey to the middle east. In each of these countries the local populace in general always had an ethnic group who they were racist towards.


To be fair the UK is a quality place to live, I love it and I love how in general we embrace different cultures.

I don’t think we should give up because we are a progressive nation. At the minute it feels like we are going backwards and everything is so divisive.

I was talking to a young kid who turns out for my 5 a side team sometimes. He’s mixed race and he tells me he experiences racism regularly, mostly ignorance which is bad enough, but some targeted abuse.
This week he was unlocking his moped as 3 schoolchildren walked past “what you looking at you black illegitimate?”
Had a long conversation with a Mum today who’s moving her daughter school because of the racist abuse she gets, gets it off loads of different kids and she just wants to go to school and learn.

intercourse are these kids getting this excrement from?

Still a problem in our society, we should strive to make it better and not trivialise it.
Posted by: arryarryarry, September 25, 2020, 10:29pm; Reply: 214
Quoted from Sandford1981


You’re right they’re about as useful and constructive as your tired and cliched responses.




Says the person who cannot provide any solutions and comes up with the same old crap.

Posted by: RichMariner, September 25, 2020, 11:58pm; Reply: 215
Quoted from Sandford1981
I worry for any person whose response to the slogan ‘black lives matter’ is to say ‘all lives or white lives matter’.

The slogan regardless of its now associated politics, wasn’t to say black lives matter more or to infer by exclusion that white lives don’t matter, it was to say black lives matter-too. This is because although this should be a given, it isn’t.


Absolutely.

When Jeff Stelling wears his prostate cancer badge, he's not saying 'only prostate cancer charity matters' (implying: to hell with the rest).

All cures for cancer matter; we just happen to be talking about prostate cancer in this instance.

Of course all lives matter. But not all lives are treated equally and this particular group want to raise awareness of that.

How anyone can get upset at a peaceful protest like taking the knee is beyond my comprehension.

In years to come, when my kid grows up and (hopefully) becomes a solid gold citizen, I want him to see that his parents were on the right side of history.

Not whinging about a non-violent protest that has brought the world's attention to something that has long needed liberating.
Posted by: codcheeky, September 26, 2020, 6:40am; Reply: 216
Quoted from arryarryarry


Says the person who cannot provide any solutions and comes up with the same old crap.



It is difficult to find solutions when too many will not admit there is any problem to solve
Posted by: Rick12, September 26, 2020, 6:42am; Reply: 217
Quoted from cardiffmariner


By all means support the drive for equality this world needs but don’t pretend that Christ  integral to it.

.
Its ok Cardiffmariner no offense taken.

For me thats where I think you need to understand who Jesus really was and  miss the point in a big way. Someone who tried to aim for purity(get closer to God ) and create a ideal society for all .So yes I do think he was integral to equality and so much more.

I think as someone best put it on twitter a while back:

"If we all tried to live a bit more Jesus the world would be a much better place".
Posted by: Sandford1981, September 26, 2020, 7:57am; Reply: 218
Quoted from arryarryarry


Says the person who cannot provide any solutions and comes up with the same old crap.



If the same old crap is recognising there is a problem, knowing it’s wrong and wanting things to change then I’m happy to continue to be full of crap.

I don’t have all the answers it’s as simple as that, it’s not something I’m afraid to admit.

My personal view is that Racism is based on ignorance so education is key to tackling it. Beyond that I think we’re all responsible individually for ensuring we are more tolerant, open and understanding.



Posted by: Marinerz93, September 26, 2020, 1:44pm; Reply: 219
Quoted from Sandford1981


I’m not as well travelled as you and don’t for one minute  doubt your experience. My perspective is a simple one; no matter how common it is currently, or has been historically and irrespective of where it takes place-it’s wrong.


Good comments and I agree that's it's wrong and as a society we have come along way from the days of slavery, there is still a lot of work to do and this is where constructive history lessons should be designed for kids at a junior school to charter from the days of slavery to were we want to be in years to come. This could include how some Britain's were enslaved by the Romans and through the ages to include speeches made Martin Luther King Jr, the song by Billie Holiday - Strange fruit and the film Mississippi Burning these shocked me and changed my view not only of racism but the world in general.

One thing that has always confused me from the time of slavery is that religion was part of everyone's daily life and it wasn't until William Wilberforce quoted from the bible and says Remember that God made men equal.

For centuries blacks were dehumanized and treated as a commodity, blacks were bought and sold through slavery and it's the deprogramming of that way of thinking that needs addressing.
Posted by: Marinerz93, September 26, 2020, 1:51pm; Reply: 220
Quoted from headingly_mariner


To be fair the UK is a quality place to live, I love it and I love how in general we embrace different cultures.

I don’t think we should give up because we are a progressive nation. At the minute it feels like we are going backwards and everything is so divisive.

I was talking to a young kid who turns out for my 5 a side team sometimes. He’s mixed race and he tells me he experiences racism regularly, mostly ignorance which is bad enough, but some targeted abuse.
This week he was unlocking his moped as 3 schoolchildren walked past “what you looking at you black illegitimate?”
Had a long conversation with a Mum today who’s moving her daughter school because of the racist abuse she gets, gets it off loads of different kids and she just wants to go to school and learn.

intercourse are these kids getting this excrement from?

Still a problem in our society, we should strive to make it better and not trivialise it.


If you look at early Disney cartoons they use stereo types and these cartoons are still aired today. Also kids look for differences when they are looking to taunt other kids, it could be hair colour or big teeth / ears and it's when these kids get a reaction they target the taunt even more because they know they'll get the reaction they want.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/disney-s-racist-cartoons-won-t-just-stay-hidden-vault-ncna998216
Posted by: Sandford1981, September 26, 2020, 2:23pm; Reply: 221
Quoted from Marinerz93


One thing that has always confused me from the time of slavery is that religion was part of everyone's daily life and it wasn't until William Wilberforce quoted from the bible and says Remember that God made men equal.

For centuries blacks were dehumanized and treated as a commodity, blacks were bought and sold through slavery and it's the deprogramming of that way of thinking that needs addressing.


The book ‘Natives’ by Akala covers this and a whole lot more. I highly recommend it to anyone who hasn’t read it already. It’s challenging but a truly outstanding book.

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