Sat in the Britannia with loads of Argyle fans enjoying a very convivial pint.
Any team news yet?

Here you go:

Tonight’s #GTFC Starting XI: McKeown (c), Hendrie, Waterfall, Davis, Garmston, Clifton, Whitehouse, Benson, Vernam, Green, Clarke.

Subs: Russell, Glennon, Pollock, Hewitt, Tilley, Wright, Grandin

Can’t understand why Glennon hasn’t started the last two games. Great player.

Quoted from chaos33

Can’t understand why Glennon hasn’t started the last two games. Great player.

He played Saturday and had his worst game since he joined

Quoted from chaos33

Can’t understand why Glennon hasn’t started the last two games. Great player.

He started on Saturday  ;D

Green due a good game

22 league games without scoring, he certainly is!

That is verging on Joelinton territory!!!!

Re Glennon and others.  Young players will always be up and down in their development.  Par for the course.  At least the vast  majority improve over time.  

Quoted from Abdul19

22 league games without scoring, he certainly is!

Yes but for 15 of those no one else was scoring either

Come on Town!! UTMM!!!!

Vernam having to drop off, link to midfield and be the only quick player? Unless Benson is the more forward of the mid three. Or Clarke a free role? Hope Saturday isn't treated as a pre season game too!

Rather we played with 10 men then have Green in the side giving away pointless stupid freekicks.

Just hooked up to iFollow

More in hope than expectation

But then again I thought that when we played Colchester

UTM  

First 10 minutes tonight better than Saturday

Some good football being played by us but they’re pretty dangerous too on the counter

Clifton should've at least got that on target

Greens doing ok

That was lucky, they hit the post.

Shot off target well left by McKeown ;)

Green should have had a shot but checked back.

Loosing 1-0

Awful awful defending

another soft goal

Who's our defensive coach? Have we got one?

1-0

Crap defending

That effort by Green epitomised everything bad about him. Gets played in behind the defence, chooses to cut back instead of knocking it forward and trying the early shot, hesitates and then spoons a cross-cum-shot miles over the bar.

Easy header for the goal. It was coming, we keep leaving someone free and its finally caught up with us. Once again some really poor defending.

Saw that coming a mile away

Bug ger

Oh my what a soft goal

Oh my what a soft goal

Oh my what a soft goal

The honeymoon period is over.

Cracking ball but no challenge on the scorer

Why put a half fit rusty Davis back in ahead of Pollock? Just about had enough of these roulette style team selections now.

Surprise surprise, guess who never closed the man down and let him get his cross in?

No attempt to stop the cross! Or mark the scorer. Basic!

Looked like Garmston let him run past him.

Lucky there that the fellah handball it cos the defenders completely misjudged the ball again

Quoted from Chrisblor

Why put a half fit rusty Davis back in ahead of Pollock? Just about had enough of these roulette style team selections now.

Davis hasn't put a foot wrong yet.

Looked like whitehouse to me. But excrement defending all round. Getting beyond a joke

Benson off the pace

A very soft goal but let’s not forget they are fifth and  playing some good stuff.

9 goals conceded in 3 and a bit games. Won't go anywhere letting so many goals in so easily. Teams don't even have to work hard to break us down.

Maybe if Whitelegs concentrated on defending rather than waving a gloved hand about we could have done better with their goal :B

Macca just stood and watched, should have come out and punched it off his head

Oh well

We were behind twice at Colchester when no-one expected anything but we came back to win it

Just not got to let our heads stop going behind here

Quoted from Garth

Macca just stood and watched, should have come out and punched it off his head

Fair point, some surgery needed at the back for next season

Waterfall and Davis looking like what they are for their 2nd, non league level

Quoted from jaygy

Cracking ball but no challenge on the scorer

Free header
Not got midfield again Benson not on it

Ludicrous attempt by Whitehouse attempting the ol' Boshell.

2-0

intercourse off

Crapshite  loooooosing 2-0 now

FFS just passed it right through between Davis and Waterfall. Neither of them even close to him.

Quoted from Hagrid

intercourse off

That’s no way to talk to B&W bear just because he hasn’t paid properly to watch.

More schoolboy defending from our clowncar centre halves. All came from Green being useless and giving the ball away too. He's not good enough and shouldn't be playing. McKeown's positioning absolutely shocking as well

2-0

From the edge of our box after Green tries a flick that doesn’t come off and they go the length of the field to score with ease 🙄

Getting pumped again. Not good enough. Hoping the budget next season can get us some quality players that every other team seems to have but us

Embarrassingly bad defending

It's too easy for them, crap defending again.

its showing who we are missing up front and in defence

Wow that bubble soon burst

Quoted from sonofmadeleymariner

FFS just passed it right through between Davis and Waterfall. Neither of them even close to him.

Not close enough couldn’t even get close to foul him so one on one
We need defensive coach cos Olly can’t do it

I’m guessing if a a few of our team are playing for their futures they won’t be here next season

Feck off green! Nowhere near good enough to lead the forward line....just shows how bad we are without hanson up top

It’s the players not Ollie ffs. Just support him until next season can you

Midfield as a unit not doing it

FFS....it's okay giving these soft goals away we aren't scoring!!... Ollie needs to get a grip of this before it becomes a cricket score!!..
Lack of pace at the back is hurting us massively, need a quick centre half who can cover these counter attacks on us ..
Think this could be Greens swan song as it sounds he's really not doing any good at all....watch for the half time substitutions!!  

Macca clearly doesn’t trust the defenders any more

It’s not just the defenders. Giving it away too cheaply up front.

Garmston off Glennon on. Garmstons looks to of pulled something maybe

Glennon on Garmston off says it all?

One punt upfield and our defence go missing, it's mad marking and positioning.

3-0

Absolutely gutless and useless defending🤬🤬

Ffs they are an embarrassment

3-0

Game over

FFS

Embarrassing now

3-0 unmarked man at the backpost again. Macca couldn't do anything and does well just to get a hand to it. Cheap, excrement marking!

Flood gates are open

Quoted from promotion plaice

The honeymoon period is over.

3-0

Well that's a waste of a fiver

Not watched the game, but will repeat from a couple of weeks ago, I think next season we may well see a new keeper ,a 19 and early 20s centre back pairing ( Pollock plus a young classy quick loanee) a nasty fooker plus a groves type player in midfield.. we are better than what we were but nowhere near the likes of exeter or crewe which is what holloway aspires to

More disgusting defending. These two centre halves aren't fit for league two. Waterfall appallingly flat footed there, just not good enough.

Embarrassing way to go into a big game on saturday

Quoted from BenBB

Well that's a waste of a fiver

fiver  ???

This will be a cricket score.

Woeful defending again. Both centre halves look all over, simple balls through the middle.

Absolutely atrocious performance

The way we conceded that was embarrassing

I think we miss hess. Badly. Just sat in front of the back 4

Town a shambles can’t get out after 40 minutes

Oh that was unfair! Their lad fouled first but falls over

That last goal was similar to the second one that Northampton scored at their place

Comedic defending

☹️

Finding our level?

Getting embarassing now . 3 crosses nobody marking at the back post again.   New manager bounce wearing off

Quoted from forza ivano

Not watched the game, but will repeat from a couple of weeks ago, I think next season we may well see a new keeper ,a 19 and early 20s centre back pairing ( Pollock plus a young classy quick loanee) a nasty fooker plus a groves type player in midfield.. we are better than what we were but nowhere near the likes of exeter or crewe which is what holloway aspires to

It’s the whole 11 on the pitch that are failing tonight.

They are all ball watching! Only had to move out and they had two offside. Unprofessional.

Seen enough for today. Finding it hard to stomach back to back 3-0 scorelines. Could end up 5 or 6 tonight.
Ollie has a mass of clearing out to do in the close season.
??) ??) ??)

Ipswin never got caught up in the hype . Very wise boy

Feel for the Town fans that have made the long trip.

Stupid mistakes costing us. This could even be uglier if Plymouth doesn`t take the foot of the gas in the second half...

where where all these so called class players that was begging to come and play during the window,

Six goals conceded (at the moment) since Pollock has been rested or whatever you call it!

Worst 30 minutes I’ve seen from us for a long time

5 conceded in the 2 games he played before that. He’s good. But not as good as all go on about. Our defending- all of them- has been shocking for weeks

Quoted from chipsandgravy

Six goals conceded (at the moment) since Pollock has been rested or whatever you call it!

Wouldn’t make any difference. The fence have been left exposed by the midfield and giving away cheap balls up front.

completely lost the midfield - they have all the time in the world to pick out their forwards. We nver play through the channels

Quoted from It Bites

Ipswin never got caught up in the hype . Very wise boy

Which manager would you employ?

Clifton Whitehouse Benson not up to it against a side looking to League 1
We need a few players if Olly wants to take us higher cos we’ve got gaps all over - Green Waterfall in particular

Oh dear oh dear, need a reaction from the players in the 2nd half to salvage something from this game even if it's a bit of dignity.

Garbage 1st half. Nothing else to say really. They're quicker then us at everything. Everything they do is to go forwards everything we do seems to go sideways or backwards.

Get Tilley on for Green, hes already shown he can do a better job of holding the ball up then him, more skillful, pace and just general ability.

Get us moving the ball quicker and more direct, lets use pace up top to force them deeper.

Tell Waterfall and Davis to mark players not just stand 10 yards either side of them.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Which manager would you employ?

Well, it’s more to do with the owner . Why do people think anything will change ?

As well as the cowardly defending they are playing on a big pitch tonight and completely failing to make the  pitch bigger.

I’m amazed that we’re playing/pressing high especially with the slow Waterfall at the bank alongside Davis who hadn’t played for ages.

I can see what Ollie is doing but sometimes you have to adapt and I’d have been more than happy to see a 4-5-1 tonight.

Quoted from denni266

where where all these so called class players that was begging to come and play during the window,

I'm sure they'd love to come and play but when they get told they're going to get paid f all compared to whatever other teams are offering (and the geography of being a decent drive/commute from any major city) then they ain't gonna want to come.

I've paid a tenner to watch that shyt!  £8 goes to Plymouth which makes it even worse,

I've stopped watching, going to sit and look at a photo of Boris Johnson until full time to teach myself a lesson!

Think those who went should get their money back... unless we win 3-4!!

Clarke has been dreadful, numerous misplaced passes, cost us a goal. He is still showing good movement and getting the ball I suppose.
Green has been even worse than normal which takes some doing. Big question as to how Ollie can be picking him, must be dropped for Saturday.
Benson looking a bit off the pace.
Vernam quiet.
Such poor marking and closing down at the back, awful.

Their no. 18 fancies getting more you can tell. Gonna be a long second half

Quoted from Teesknees

I've paid a tenner to watch that shyt!  £8 goes to Plymouth which makes it even worse

Pretty sure if you're watching it through our website and not theirs most of it goes to us.

Quoted from It Bites

Well, it’s more to do with the owner . Why do people think anything will change ?

Cum on 14th going into this but they’re different class we’ve not got the players

I have no idea what the intercourse Holloway is playing at. Both Green and Garmston have been excrement in every game they have played in recently yet he starts with them.

Garmston was fast asleep at the far post marking no fornicator for the first goal.

Second goal excrement play by Green then two flipping clowns Waterfall and Davis just stand there and let their player run through the middle of them.

Third goal Waterfall leaves the man he was marking and he scores with a free header.

Clifton and Whitehouse are just not good enough, both can hardly control the ball and give far too many free kicks away.

This really is a shitehouse performance.

Best bit first half for me was Billy Clarke moment, we need 10 more like him then we can think about League 1 but Olly might sub Green for Grantin & poss 3-3?

Ollie's just rung the local takeaway for some chicken wings   :)

Quoted from essexexile

Clifton Whitehouse Benson not up to it against a side looking to League 1
We need a few players if Olly wants to take us higher cos we’ve got gaps all over - Green Waterfall in particular

every single player is either too slow or just plain shite made 6 changes las week -Saturday will need to make 11  - what do they do in training - eat fking icecream ?

Quoted from promotion plaice

Ollie's just rung the local takeaway for some chicken wings   :)

Thinking he’ll be giving the ice cream van a miss

Quoted from It Bites

Well, it’s more to do with the owner . Why do people think anything will change ?

We don't but this manager is the best we will ever get. He has a big job with or without the ownership problems but if he fails we really are in a mess.

Quoted from essexexile

Best bit first half for me was Billy Clarke moment, we need 10 more like him then we can think about League 1 but Olly might sub Green for Grantin & poss 3-3?

Even he’s not immune tonight. Gave soft ball away right in front of penalty area.

Very poor half if we don't improve Plymouth will score a hat full.

205 Town fans poor beggars.

Difference they can pass to there players often   -   we can pass to our players occasionally
They have 2 wing backs that can cross the ball, 2 strikers and 2 midfielders with pace   --  we dont
We have a slow and a completely non matchfit pair of central defenders. they dont
They lost their captain and their top scorer  had no effect  We lost Hanson, we are can't cope we need p[layer investment.
Pollock coming on for Benson off at half time

3 0 down and he starts second half with 3 centre halves -what is going on ?

so in the last 2 and half games against teams up there in the table we have conceded 9 goals and counting. I think this just goes to show how far short we are from actually being up there in the league, if we are going to be challenging next season then not many of this current squad will be here as it is obvious the vast majority of them are simply not good enough

Whitehouse gets in a good shooting position and tries to assassinate one of the Town fans high up in the stand.

Ollie said after last Sat that he would expect a performance like that from his players once every 4 years.(Not twice in 4 days).

















  




?



  

Quoted from golfer

3 0 down and he starts second half with 3 centre halves -what is going on ?

Its probably Plan B ... 3-4-3

Quoted from golfer

3 0 down and he starts second half with 3 centre halves -what is going on ?

Hes gone 532 with wingbacks hasn't he. Looks like Ollies trying to stop up throwing it away at the back

9,300 crowd

Can green claim an assist for their second? Most productive game for him for weeks!

Too lacking in confidence to even shoot when  presented with the chance

At least Scunny are losing at Swindon and as it stands can't go above us Saturday.

They're just playing with us

Wright on for Davis. Back to 4 at the back then?

3-1

Quoted from golfer

They're just playing with us

Yep. That’s the idea. Two teams play with each other.

Town better 3 5 2 Max on for Davis
Should have scored then

Goal disallowed

Still 3-0

Hanson would have had that

Quoted from 123614

3-1

Nope....came up on flashscores though.

Deffo not anything disallowed? We had a shot though

"Green should've been favourite for that, but looked like he just didn't fancy it"

Quoted from promotion plaice

Nope....came up on flashscores though.

yep, came up on my app.

No goal threat

They are a good side play it out from the back we’ve got into it but they’re prob happy to let us have it

Quoted from essexexile

No goal threat

Yes, that is Matt Green

They can score almost at will should have had 4
We have to work hard just to get a chance
They are a yard or two quicker than us
UTMM

What excuse will Ollie come out with tonight? On Saturday we had, I’ve only been here for 10-12 weeks and we are building. We can’t defend very well and are conceding too many goals, the chopping and changing of players suggests he’s written off the remaining 10 games.

We’re almost like dustbins

Quoted from 28195

What excuse will Ollie come out with tonight? On Saturday we had, I’ve only been here for 10-12 weeks and we are building. We can’t defend very well and are conceding too many goals, the chopping and changing of players suggests he’s written off the remaining 10 games.

How about “I’ve been here 10.5-12.5 weeks”

This Kiwi Co-commenting makes a lot of sense.

Clueless ball watching

Quoted from KingstonMariner

This Kiwi Co-commenting makes a lot of sense.

Yeah he was really good when he did the Exeter away game too.

Quoted from essexexile

We’re almost like dustbins

Expand on the analogy please .....



not arguing just want something interesting to view this evening

Rory fallon, should whack him up front

Quoted from BenBB

Yes, that is Matt Green

No he’s not a hold up player he’s a 10 playing at 9, did you ever play?

How was that not a foul on Wright

Quoted from 28195

What excuse will Ollie come out with tonight? On Saturday we had, I’ve only been here for 10-12 weeks and we are building. We can’t defend very well and are conceding too many goals, the chopping and changing of players suggests he’s written off the remaining 10 games.

What would you like him to say? He came at the start of the year with us in a relegation scrap. We wont be relegated and we are getting tonked by a team heading to league 1. That's about it isn't it?

Green blasts it into the green seats   :o

Closest Green has come to looking like a footballer is hitting it 10 yards wide.

Scunny losing so that’s OK

Nice of Plymouth to miss an open goal

Quoted from essexexile

No he’s not a hold up player he’s a 10 playing at 9, did you ever play?

I was never good at football as a kid (and I still aren't)

Positives,

we havn't gone down in the table
it hasnt finished 6 or 7 nil
Ollie will hopefully now see what he does need to do in the summer
Scunny lost so will be equally downbeat for the weekend.....(clutching at straws now)

Not lost to Plymouth in over 30 years so they’re due one

Quoted from moosey_club

Positives,

we havn't gone down in the table
Ollie will hopefully now see what he does need to do in the summer
Scunny lost so will be equally downbeat for the weekend.....(clutching at straws now)

Result

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Yep. That’s the idea. Two teams play with each other.

I don't mean that sort of playing d. sd

Take the positives...second halves 0-0 so far!!..this is showing just how poor a squad Jolley assembled....
We desperately need another striker, we are completely hopeless up front without Hanson in there...nobody holding the ball up like Hanson, nobody flicking on like Hanson, nobody keeping defenders busy like Hanson and nobody scoring like Hanson...
Think I made my point there about Hanson..

Think we need some perspective here. Last few games we've played Bradford, Colchester, Morecambe, Newport, Swindon, Northampton and Plymouth. That's one tough list and we've won 3, lost 3 and drawn 1
At the beginning of January I'd have taken that, plus being well clear of the drop. If we're shipping 3 a game in October I'll start moaning
I do feel sorry for those who travelled to Plymouth but this is not the end of the world some are making it out to be

Pollock has to start every game. He's young and is going to make mistakes but he's already a step above our other 3 CBs.

No disgrace losin to them they’re League 1 ( what they doin playin us?)
Good workout

Quoted from buckstown

Think we need some perspective here. Last few games we've played Bradford, Colchester, Morecambe, Newport, Swindon, Northampton and Plymouth. That's one tough list and we've won 3, lost 3 and drawn 1
At the beginning of January I'd have taken that, plus being well clear of the drop. If we're shipping 3 a game in October I'll start moaning
I do feel sorry for those who travelled to Plymouth but this is not the end of the world some are making it out to be

not far from Land's End though  ;D

We lost first half drew second shame we didn’t nick it

The ref had a good game so can't even blame him

We won 3 nil last time we played em there

Well we cant expect to get anything when we defend like that, in fact we can't expect to get anything when we attack like that either.

Quoted from essexexile

No disgrace losin to them they’re League 1 ( what they doin playin us?)
Good workout

It’s not the result, it’s the manner of the defeat.

Thank intercourse that's over

Quoted from essexexile

No he’s not a hold up player he’s a 10 playing at 9, did you ever play?

It doesn't matter where he plays he has in the main been poor all season so far.

FT....Plymouth 3-0 Town.

Ah well, disappointing last couple of games  UTM

Let the fornicators walk home
Oh well at least there will be nobody who needs resting

Again, more pissing about with the team selection fails miserably.

Quoted from arryarryarry

It doesn't matter where he plays he has in the main been poor all season so far.

Looked like he was pretending to make an effort at times. Also displayed a lack of judgement, poor control, and a bit alfarsed.

Yes,not just results key.  Performances, concentration levels and attitudes are also and always important.  

Quoted from sonofmadeleymariner

Pollock has to start every game. He's young and is going to make mistakes but he's already a step above our other 3 CBs.

Sorry but i do not agree. He’s done well, no doubt, but he has no pace and thats apparent whoever we play against or whoever he is alongside. All our CB’s are good in the air but can you seriously say we have good centr halves, the goals we are conceding.....5 in pollocks last 2 games, 5 in Ohmans, Waterfall 12? I think in 4. Its dire. Its the usual grimsby thing to overhype players, rose clifton etc, i just dont think pollock is as good as others see. For me just a strong centre half with no pace.

Well I think Ollie has a good idea who can hack it now.

So expect lots of players coming and going in the summer.

Anyone got the contact number for the iFollow refund department?  

same here P.P., want my money back too, dire.

Quoted from essexexile

We won 3 nil last time we played em there

So actually we have got 6 goals worse

Quoted from promotion plaice

Anyone got the contact number for the iFollow refund department?  

and the season ticket refund dept.

Decent refereeing performance for a change apart from buying that dying act by Hendrie, refs who read this are contested drop balls not allowed anymore?

I hope we go with vernam, Clarke, Wright/Tilley as the front line for sat. Go for movement and pace, its no use trying to have green hold up the ball as he has repeatedly proved he simply cannot do it. He is goin thru the motions he doesn't even have the conviction to be able to successfully pass to a team mate 10 feet away last Saturday, or control a ball without it bouncing at least 6 feet away from him, his confidence is destroyed.

That kiwi fella was, shall we say, diplomatically disdainful of green.

Need real investment on the playing side, Plymouth missed 3 sitters in the 2nd half without having to try, we created a couple of half chances from corners, shocking how far we are behind them regards our squad. :o

Quoted from essexexile

No disgrace losin to them they’re League 1 ( what they doin playin us?)
Good workout

"What they doin playin us?"

Because they were excrement in League 1 last season.

And may I suggest you get a new keyboard with a g key that works.

Quoted from toontown

Decent refereeing performance for a change apart from buying that dying act by Hendrie, refs who read this are contested drop balls not allowed anymore?

I hope we go with vernam, Clarke, Wright/Tilley as the front line for sat. Go for movement and pace, its no use trying to have green hold up the ball as he has repeatedly proved he simply cannot do it. He is goin thru the motions he doesn't even have the conviction to be able to successfully pass to a team mate 10 feet away last Saturday, or control a ball without it bouncing at least 6 feet away from him, his confidence is destroyed.

That kiwi fella was, shall we say, diplomatically disdainful of green.

Hendrie was pushed to the ground by a Plymouth player. Could easily have been a free kick.

Quoted from Hagrid

Sorry but i do not agree. He’s done well, no doubt, but he has no pace and thats apparent whoever we play against or whoever he is alongside. All our CB’s are good in the air but can you seriously say we have good centr halves, the goals we are conceding.....5 in pollocks last 2 games, 5 in Ohmans, Waterfall 12? I think in 4. Its dire. Its the usual grimsby thing to overhype players, rose clifton etc, i just dont think pollock is as good as others see. For me just a strong centre half with no pace.

Its when he's got the ball at feet as well  though, he moves it better then the other three, he's not scared to carry it into open field like the other three, he controls the ball better then they do. It's so much more then he can just head the ball as well as the rest.

Quoted from Hagrid

Sorry but i do not agree. He’s done well, no doubt, but he has no pace and thats apparent whoever we play against or whoever he is alongside. All our CB’s are good in the air but can you seriously say we have good centr halves, the goals we are conceding.....5 in pollocks last 2 games, 5 in Ohmans, Waterfall 12? I think in 4. Its dire. Its the usual grimsby thing to overhype players, rose clifton etc, i just dont think pollock is as good as others see. For me just a strong centre half with no pace.

Not always about pace at centre half, if you can read a game well then pace is just a bonus. Sometimes a defender chasing back at pace and winning a slide challenge looks better than him just being in the right place to win it simply. Look at Van Dijk, he’s got both and that’s why he looks like he walks through games at times. For an 18 year old lad, his positional sense is very good with bags of room for learning and improvement. We’ve played some good teams lately as well, but of a learning curve will do him good.

Also you need to look at why we’re conceding more. Because we’re attacking more. Full backs are 10-20 yards further up when we have the ball with the wingers very high. Often 2 of the 3 central midfielders have bombed on and were exposed. It’s how Ollie wants to play, and it’s refreshing, even if we lose if I’m honest. We need to work on it obviously and come August we might see a very different look to the side.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Take the positives...second halves 0-0 so far!!..this is showing just how poor a squad Jolley assembled....
We desperately need another striker, we are completely hopeless up front without Hanson in there...nobody holding the ball up like Hanson, nobody flicking on like Hanson, nobody keeping defenders busy like Hanson and nobody scoring like Hanson...
Think I made my point there about Hanson..

Was it that Jolley got Hanson to come to Town? ::)

Quoted from FishOutOfWater

Was it that Jolley got Hanson to come to Town? ::)

I said squad...not an individual....
In all fairness I was probably a bit harsh, Hessenthailer was one of his better signings too...

[quote=3351]

[/b]Not always about pace at centre half, if you can read a game well then pace is just a bonus. [b]Sometimes a defender chasing back at pace and winning a slide challenge looks better than him just being in the right place to win it simply. Look at Van Dijk, he’s got both and that’s why he looks like he walks through games at times. For an 18 year old lad, his positional sense is very good with bags of room for learning and improvement. We’ve played some good teams lately as well, but of a learning curve will do him good.

Also you need to look at why we’re conceding more. Because we’re attacking more. Full backs are 10-20 yards further up when we have the ball with the wingers very high. Often 2 of the 3 central midfielders have bombed on and were exposed. It’s how Ollie wants to play, and it’s refreshing, even if we lose if I’m honest. We need to work on it obviously and come August we might see a very different look to the side.[/quote

For example Paul McGrath - when he played at BP for Villa in January ‘94 his legs were literally gone by that point of his career and he was fuelled entirely on ale but was still the best player on the pitch. Entirely on positional sense and anticipation. Central defenders don’t always need pace.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

I said squad...not an individual....
In all fairness I was probably a bit harsh, Hessenthailer was one of his better signings too...

You did indeed.... I was just being a bit impish

I'd argue that Hendrie isn't that bad a player too

No-one else springs to mind so maybe you do have a point.... some flatter to deceive and some are downright average

But then again Jolley argued that he didn't have that much of a budget to work with,,,,,, you buy cheap, you buy twice don;t they say?

Our centre backs are just not good enough.
Pollock is still very young and will improve. I'd say he's probably our best centre back and although he has plenty of potential (not in the same league as Bennett though) that says a lot for our other centre backs. Massively lacking in pace but our best defender on the ball. Probably the only one I would want to keep if we were serious about a promotion challenge.

Waterfall is very average. I can't believe I saw someone on here say he was hands down one of the best defenders in L2 the other day. He can head it fairly well but he's clumsy on the floor and not particularly good on the ball and he's pretty slow. Spent most of his career outside the FL and was dropped by Lincoln in the season they scraped in to the play offs and made a lot of appearances late on in games off the bench. Then somehow went to Shrewsbury where he wasn't very popular with their fans. He's an average at best L2 centre back but I fear he's probably on a decent wage as he was signed lateish in the window when Jolley was likely panicking that he only had a teenager and two other average centre backs. Would not be sad to see him leave, I'm sure that money can be used more effectively.

Davis is average. Nothing more to be said. He's okay on the ball and probably our quickest centre back but not particularly dominant and hasn't set the world alight whilst here. Contract up in the summer and I would be surprised if he was offered a new one.

Ohman is vastly overrated. Heads everything but is incredibly clumsy on the ground. Gives away lots of needless free kicks in dangerous areas. Also probably the worst on the ball and often resorts to knocking it long aimlessly. Again, would not be unhappy to see him leave.

The squad Jolley put together is very poor. There is a reason they went 17 games without winning and it wasn't solely down to Jolley being fairly clueless tactically. We didn't concede many but playing an exceptionally negative and defensive style (man marking the opposition from our own throw ins for goodness sake) will often hide any deficiencies in individual players. If we are serious about promotion we need a rebuild. Along with the three older centre backs I wouldn't be unhappy to see Green, Rose, Cardwell, Cook and Clifton leave. They're just not up to it unless we plan to be no higher in the table than we are now.

Quoted from FishOutOfWater

Was it that Jolley got Hanson to come to Town? ::)

Yes but which of his other attacking signings have been any good? Out of the attacking players we started with this season Hanson is good, Green is not, Cook is often injured and probably not good enough, Rose isn't good enough, Cardwell nowhere near good enough, Ogbu wasn't good enough, Wright was a youth team player and still has lots to learn and Vernam is good enough but he never bloody played him! A hit rate of 2 in 7 (discounting Wright) and he never played one of them!

Quoted from FishOutOfWater

I'd argue that Hendrie isn't that bad a player too

No-one else springs to mind so maybe you do have a point....

And Vernam

Not sure Hanson can be seen as the saviour, more a reflection of how poor the others are.

Tonight was dire. Can’t actually think of another word to describe it...

Quoted from mariner91

Our centre backs are just not good enough.
Pollock is still very young and will improve. I'd say he's probably our best centre back and although he has plenty of potential (not in the same league as Bennett though) that says a lot for our other centre backs. Massively lacking in pace but our best defender on the ball. Probably the only one I would want to keep if we were serious about a promotion challenge.

Waterfall is very average. I can't believe I saw someone say he was hands down one of the best defenders in L2 the other on here. He can head it fairly well but he's clumsy on the floor and not particularly good on the ball and he's pretty slow. Spent most of his career outside the FL and was dropped by Lincoln in the season they scraped in to the play offs and made a lot of appearances late on in games off the bench. Then somehow went to Shrewsbury where he wasn't very popular with their fans. He's an average at best L2 centre back but I fear he's probably on a decent wage as he was signed lateish in the window when Jolley was likely panicking that he only had a teenager and two other average centre backs. Would not be sad to see him leave, I'm sure that money can be used more effectively.

Davis is average. Nothing more to be said. He's okay on the ball and probably our quickest centre back but not particularly dominant and hasn't set the world alight whilst here. Contract up in the summer and I would be surprised if he was offered a new one.

Ohman is vastly overrated. Heads everything but is incredibly clumsy on the ground. Gives away lots of needless free kicks in dangerous areas. Also probably the worst on the ball and often resorts to knocking it long aimlessly. Again, would not be unhappy to see him leave.

The squad Jolley put together is very poor. There is a reason they went 17 games without winning and it wasn't solely down to Jolley being fairly clueless tactically. We didn't concede many but playing an exceptionally negative and defensive style (man marking the opposition from our own throw ins for goodness sake) will often hide any deficiencies in individual players. If we are serious about promotion we need a rebuild. Along with the three older centre backs I wouldn't be unhappy to see Green, Rose, Cardwell, Cook and Clifton leave. They're just not up to it unless we plan to be no higher in the table than we are now.

I thought both Waterfall and Hendrie were poor tonight.

Someone mentioned our centrebacks are good in the air. It's a shame the two of them never got anywhere near to stopping all three goals.

Quoted from Hagrid

Sorry but i do not agree. He’s done well, no doubt, but he has no pace and thats apparent whoever we play against or whoever he is alongside. All our CB’s are good in the air but can you seriously say we have good centr halves, the goals we are conceding.....5 in pollocks last 2 games, 5 in Ohmans, Waterfall 12? I think in 4. Its dire. Its the usual grimsby thing to overhype players, rose clifton etc, i just dont think pollock is as good as others see. For me just a strong centre half with no pace.

If Pollock had pace he wouldn’t be here simple as that....he’d have been sold in January for a million quid having played 15 games for us and being just another in a long line of youngsters we wish we could have kept for another season or 2!

Quoted from aldi_01

Not sure Hanson can be seen as the saviour, more a reflection of how poor the others are.

Tonight was dire. Can’t actually think of another word to describe it...

I'd agree with that to an extent. I don't think you can rely on Hanson as your focal point for the season, seems too injury prone going off this season and recent seasons he's had plus the fact he's always in a physical battle will take it's toll. He does though cause problems and draws defenders to him creating space for others. The issue being that most of Jolley's attacking signings were so poor and the service from the midfield so bad that there was no way to capitalise on the space created. He could definitely play an important role in a promotion bid but we would need another striker who is just as capable of leading the line.

Quoted from Abdul19

And Vernam

I was going to say Vernam but Jolley didn't seem to favour him or at least didn't know where to play him to get the best out of him

Today's performances was a lot worse than Saturday's. Against Northampton we were punished for almost evéyyhing we got wrong, tonite we were let off more often than they scored. Saturday we could have had 5 goals. Today we could, maybe, have scored 1 if we had been lucky.

Quoted from toontown

Today's performances was a lot worse than Saturday's. Against Northampton we were punished for almost evéyyhing we got wrong, tonite we were let off more often than they scored. Saturday we could have had 5 goals. Today we could, maybe, have scored 1 if we had been lucky.

Fair assessment

On any other day we would have scored against Northampton but tonight we were pretty much hopeless going forward.... but not as hopeless as we were at the back

Its alright not rating Rose & Clifton, but we need at least 2 academy players in matchday squads next season to stay within rules so need to be sure we have at least 3 or 4 capable of turning out allowing for possible injuries etc. are they good enough, not sure, lets see how they get on next season after a preseason with Ollie.

Quoted from WesternMariner

[quote=3351]

[/b]Not always about pace at centre half, if you can read a game well then pace is just a bonus. [b]Sometimes a defender chasing back at pace and winning a slide challenge looks better than him just being in the right place to win it simply. Look at Van Dijk, he’s got both and that’s why he looks like he walks through games at times. For an 18 year old lad, his positional sense is very good with bags of room for learning and improvement. We’ve played some good teams lately as well, but of a learning curve will do him good.

Also you need to look at why we’re conceding more. Because we’re attacking more. Full backs are 10-20 yards further up when we have the ball with the wingers very high. Often 2 of the 3 central midfielders have bombed on and were exposed. It’s how Ollie wants to play, and it’s refreshing, even if we lose if I’m honest. We need to work on it obviously and come August we might see a very different look to the side.[/quote

For example Paul McGrath - when he played at BP for Villa in January ‘94 his legs were literally gone by that point of his career and he was fuelled entirely on ale but was still the best player on the pitch. Entirely on positional sense and anticipation. Central defenders don’t always need pace.

His legs weren't "literally gone". That would've caused major problems even for someone as good as he was.

Woke up to some dismal reading.  How can you not play Glennon.  Yeah, he didn't play well on Saturday but everybody has a bad game.  Somebody suggested that IH is checking out the players for next season.  I'd say if he doesn't know by now, he never will.  Before the Northampton game we still had a crack, albeit remotely, of the play-offs.  That's dead and buried now

Just back. Result spoilt an otherwise lovely day.

Their movement was excellent but our defense/midfield simply didn’t read it. Waterfall no good, Whitehouse no good, Clifton no good, Green worse than that. Benson and Clarke are not going to boss a midfield as long as I’ve got a hole in my bottom.

I know everyone wanted to believe the hyperbole but there is a reason those players are at a bottom half league 2 club...I appreciate some are on loan and learning still but the likes of waterfall and Green aren’t.

I understand that he wants to see all the players and give them a chance but we’ve not really been able to keep any consistency with the side and against the better teams they’ve punished us.

I think whitehouse has been arguably the most improved player since Holloway came in and then he gets dropped, that must confuse a player. We’re distinctly lacking up top. We had zero threat last night. Defensively, the least said the better. I’m sorry but waterfall is bottom.


Saturday could be a really poor game between two poor sides...

We seemed to be starting with mostly a good consistent side and looking strong and consistent a few games ago but then he started to drop players and mixed things up??
Come on Town!!

Quoted from aldi_01

I know everyone wanted to believe the hyperbole but there is a reason those players are at a bottom half league 2 club...I appreciate some are on loan and learning still but the likes of waterfall and Green aren’t.

I understand that he wants to see all the players and give them a chance but we’ve not really been able to keep any consistency with the side and against the better teams they’ve punished us.

I think whitehouse has been arguably the most improved player since Holloway came in and then he gets dropped, that must confuse a player. We’re distinctly lacking up top. We had zero threat last night. Defensively, the least said the better. I’m sorry but waterfall is bottom.


Saturday could be a really poor game between two poor sides...

I said something similar the other day but he was poor last night as was Clifton. I don't think either of them are good enough to take us forward.

To be honest, condidering some of the poor goals we concede in and around the 6 yard area, I don't really rate any of our centre-halves.

Why can't we have the same 2 centre halves instead of alternating -no wonder mistakes are made

Not doubting Holloway at all, and anyone that is, needs a hard reality check.

What I am doubting, is some of the players we have.
You can see a change in play since Holloway took over, and its great, we are creating chances etc.
We just haven't got the calibre of players to execute what he wants them to do, this will only improve with a long summer of transfers.

Even then, don't expect us to be in the top 3, because it's going to take a window or 2 more, to get what he wants.

What I will say about the current players, is that 90% of them want to be here, they want to play for Ian, some just aren't good enough.

Over the years, we have seen some terrible terrible players, who aren't interested, and I can't say that about many that here, they give 100% every game for Holloway and Limbrick, they clearly are doing as they are told, as the game we play has changed significantly since his arrival.

So I won't slate individuals, and carry on being excited about what is going to happen with this club for a change

Quoted from golfer

Why can't we have the same 2 centre halves instead of alternating -no wonder mistakes are made

Are we going down? nope.
Are we going up? nope.

so why is everyone so angry for him testing and trying when our season is technically over with nothing to play for? baffles me

Quoted from Jarmo.Is.God

Are we going down? nope.
Are we going up? nope.

so why is everyone so angry for him testing and trying when our season is technically over with nothing to play for? baffles me

Maybe not angry just a little frustration that after some good results and if we got a few more then a PO push could of been on  , , , but all is good and its much much better than what we have had , , , , it was always going to be a bumpy ride  , , , , one thing can we not lose 3-0 v Scunny please Ollie??!?!  :o

I have been watching and following Town for a long time.
Pre Bill Shankly.
The amount of times that supporters are expecting mass clear outs at the end of the season, and it doesn't happen.
Many reasons, but I suspect money is the main one.
Don't expect the majority to leave.

We’re just not good enough to go toe to toe with the top sides and not leak goals at the moment but hopefully it’ll come. I still don’t think a mass exodus is needed anyway, we just need four or five new faces in the summer.

Quoted from Jarmo.Is.God

Not doubting Holloway at all, and anyone that is, needs a hard reality check.

What I am doubting, is some of the players we have.
You can see a change in play since Holloway took over, and its great, we are creating chances etc.
We just haven't got the calibre of players to execute what he wants them to do, this will only improve with a long summer of transfers.

Even then, don't expect us to be in the top 3, because it's going to take a window or 2 more, to get what he wants.

What I will say about the current players, is that 90% of them want to be here, they want to play for Ian, some just aren't good enough.

Over the years, we have seen some terrible terrible players, who aren't interested, and I can't say that about many that here, they give 100% every game for Holloway and Limbrick, they clearly are doing as they are told, as the game we play has changed significantly since his arrival.

So I won't slate individuals, and carry on being excited about what is going to happen with this club for a change

But you have to doubt Holloway if he's setting us up to play this way against teams we simply aren't good enough to do it against. I'm all for pretty, attacking football, but playing a high line with 2 sloggers in defence is exposing them to getting caught out. Our defending at set pieces is appalling, that's not the players, we weren't conceding these goals from set pieces under Jolley. I have no idea what our marking system is, because a player looks like he's marked, then suddenly whoever was closest to him has sprinted off towards the ball and it's a tap in. Our full backs are either up the attacking end of the pitch or playing like a centre back leaving their wide players to put crosses in at will. These aren't all faults of the players, it's the way they're told to play. If we had better players, we might be able to do this, but you have to adapt to what you have and against the better teams, we can't play expansive football and not expect to get hit on the counter attack.

Quoted from aldi_01

I know everyone wanted to believe the hyperbole but there is a reason those players are at a bottom half league 2 club...I appreciate some are on loan and learning still but the likes of waterfall and Green aren’t.

I understand that he wants to see all the players and give them a chance but we’ve not really been able to keep any consistency with the side and against the better teams they’ve punished us.

I think whitehouse has been arguably the most improved player since Holloway came in and then he gets dropped, that must confuse a player. We’re distinctly lacking up top. We had zero threat last night. Defensively, the least said the better. I’m sorry but waterfall is bottom.


Saturday could be a really poor game between two poor sides...

You could have said that about the game in December, but straight from the kick off, we were pretty much enthralled with what was going on

We outplayed them that afternoon but lost to a sucker's punch - not many complained about the quality

As long as we give every ounce of effort this coming Saturday I'll make do with that

I just hope that after saying he's got his team and his tactics wrong for the past couple of games that Ollie knows who he wants to wear the stripes and how they should play

Russ Willcox won't be playing expansive football so as a footballing spectacle who knows how it will go, but I don't think we have anything to fear

We were the better side at BP and with our football in general having improved these past two months, I'm confident we will be alright this Saturday, poor game or not

Quoted from pen penfras

But you have to doubt Holloway if he's setting us up to play this way against teams we simply aren't good enough to do it against. I'm all for pretty, attacking football, but playing a high line with 2 sloggers in defence is exposing them to getting caught out.

You could argue though that the free pass that the remainder of this season essentially is, has been a time to assess whether the players we have got now can play in the system/style that we're going to play next season. Do we play a deep defensive line and thus alter our whole playing style to suit what we've got now in certain areas, or does he say, right, this is what we're going to be doing next season so we're going to run with it now, look at who's capable of playing to this philosophy and deal with summer retention/recruitment accordingly.

With last night, I don't actually think it was the high line that caused any of the goals. It was the urine poor defending. Their second goal, after Green loses the ball, they didn't hit the space behind our back line. It was a just pass to their forward, who Waterfall had somehow got the wrong side of (Davis just as culpable for me for not either sorting it or covering round). The other two goals were just as dopey again but not through playing a high line with slow defenders. First one, between Whitehouse and Garmston they let a guy run in and head home unchallenged. The third one was a typical Town goal to concede it seems, where the ball seems to be in our 6 yard box for about 5 seconds without the goalkeeper or CB's dealing with it.

Quoted from pen penfras

Our defending at set pieces is appalling, that's not the players, we weren't conceding these goals from set pieces under Jolley. I have no idea what our marking system is, because a player looks like he's marked, then suddenly whoever was closest to him has sprinted off towards the ball and it's a tap in. Our full backs are either up the attacking end of the pitch or playing like a centre back leaving their wide players to put crosses in at will. These aren't all faults of the players, it's the way they're told to play.

Sorry can't agree with this either. If we're conceding goals from set pieces, it is absolutely the players' fault. Players are letting opposition players run off them and knock it in unchallenged and you're trying to blame the manager for it? Unbelievable.

Quoted from Tommy

You could argue though that the free pass that the remainder of this season essentially is, has been a time to assess whether the players we have got now can play in the system/style that we're going to play next season. Do we play a deep defensive line and thus alter our whole playing style to suit what we've got now in certain areas, or does he say, right, this is what we're going to be doing next season so we're going to run with it now, look at who's capable of playing to this philosophy and deal with summer retention/recruitment accordingly.

With last night, I don't actually think it was the high line that caused any of the goals. It was the urine poor defending. Their second goal, after Green loses the ball, they didn't hit the space behind our back line. It was a just pass to their forward, who Waterfall had somehow got the wrong side of (Davis just as culpable for me for not either sorting it or covering round). The other two goals were just as dopey again but not through playing a high line with slow defenders. First one, between Whitehouse and Garmston they let a guy run in and head home unchallenged. The third one was a typical Town goal to concede it seems, where the ball seems to be in our 6 yard box for about 5 seconds without the goalkeeper or CB's dealing with it.



Sorry can't agree with this either. If we're conceding goals from set pieces, it is absolutely the players' fault. Players are letting opposition players run off them and knock it in unchallenged and you're trying to blame the manager for it? Unbelievable.

But it's the manager's fault if he can't coach the players to defend in the way that he wants them to. We didn't look anywhere near as shambolic at set pieces under Jolley with virtually the same players. Vice versa, some of the players look completely different in a positive regard to what they did under Jolley. You can't have it both ways that Jolley gets slated for us having a shite attack but good defence and Ollie is a messiah for making us play football, but the defending is nothing to do with him. There's a balance to be made and against the better sides we've not got it right under Ollie. It's not slagging him off, it's a learning experience and I think we're going to have to get used to having games go like this. But lets not pretend we didn't get torn apart because of his tactics, because that absolutely is what happened.

Quoted from Tommy

You could argue though that the free pass that the remainder of this season essentially is, has been a time to assess whether the players we have got now can play in the system/style that we're going to play next season. Do we play a deep defensive line and thus alter our whole playing style to suit what we've got now in certain areas, or does he say, right, this is what we're going to be doing next season so we're going to run with it now, look at who's capable of playing to this philosophy and deal with summer retention/recruitment accordingly.

With last night, I don't actually think it was the high line that caused any of the goals. It was the urine poor defending. Their second goal, after Green loses the ball, they didn't hit the space behind our back line. It was a just pass to their forward, who Waterfall had somehow got the wrong side of (Davis just as culpable for me for not either sorting it or covering round). The other two goals were just as dopey again but not through playing a high line with slow defenders. First one, between Whitehouse and Garmston they let a guy run in and head home unchallenged. The third one was a typical Town goal to concede it seems, where the ball seems to be in our 6 yard box for about 5 seconds without the goalkeeper or CB's dealing with it.



Sorry can't agree with this either. If we're conceding goals from set pieces, it is absolutely the players' fault. Players are letting opposition players run off them and knock it in unchallenged and you're trying to blame the manager for it? Unbelievable.

You've nailed it there. Ollie has said many times they all train the same way - ie the way he wishes to play. Those who adapt may be worth keeping unless he has a better replacement in mind. It's no good playing the rest of this season with a style he doesn't like as it wont show him anything.

Our defenders aren't nearly good enough unless we play an ultra defensive game as per Jolley and even then couldn't manage many clean sheets.

We are entering a whole new era of attacking football with better players, and defenders who can take care of things at the back.

Nobody likes losing, but in the great scheme of things Ollie has done wonders so far and all eyes are on next season with new players and the current ones who can play the Ollie way.

Quoted from pen penfras

But it's the manager's fault if he can't coach the players to defend in the way that he wants them to.

But in the instances of set pieces or last night's first goal, it's not a case of being coached to defend in a certain way, it's taking responsibility and following your man - something you're taught at 9 years old.

Quoted from pen penfras

We didn't look anywhere near as shambolic at set pieces under Jolley with virtually the same players.

I've no idea if that's true or not, to be honest. But if you're right about that, I do wonder if it had anything to do with Jolley's method of bringing everyone back to defend set pieces. Everyone shat their pants about him doing it but I wonder if we did concede less goals doing that. I know there's the whole debate about it coming straight back for a second phase if we clear the first one, and personally I would leave a couple of players upfield, but there's a reason dozens of teams employ the tactic of bringing everyone back at various levels despite it not being to everyone's liking here.

Quoted Text

But in the instances of set pieces or last night's first goal, it's not a case of being coached to defend in a certain way, it's taking responsibility and following your man - something you're taught at 9 years old.

Yes, that's what you get taught at 9 years old, but zonal marking came along and then the hybrid zonal+man marking thing too. I couldn't tell you which system we are trying to play, because every game players are unmarked but nobody is taking control of any zone. And to be fair, this was still happening under Jolley from open play. We just weren't getting exposed by it so many times in a game.

Quoted Text

I've no idea if that's true or not, to be honest. But if you're right about that, I do wonder if it had anything to do with Jolley's method of bringing everyone back to defend set pieces. Everyone shat their pants about him doing it but I wonder if we did concede less goals doing that. I know there's the whole debate about it coming straight back for a second phase if we clear the first one, and personally I would leave a couple of players upfield, but there's a reason dozens of teams employ the tactic of bringing everyone back at various levels despite it not being to everyone's liking here

I think that is one factor, and the statistics state that it's better even if it is frustrating to watch. But there seems more to it than that. Not every team that leaves players forwards gets punished from the second phase almost every game.

Holy Defending Batman...

just watched the highlights.....i mentioned on a different thread after last weeks game how much schoolboy defending we were doing lately and those highlights highlight it even more....so many people ball watching it made the Plymouth players look world class when in reality they havn't done anything special in their own movement or runs to find themselves in acres.
We just stared at the ball whilst their players did the simple things like anticipating what might happen next.

Quoted from moosey_club

their players did the simple things like anticipating what might happen next.

Which is something too many of our current squad be it at the back (especially) in midfield or up front appear incapable of doing

Not a popular view but if we are going to do well next season go away to the “big teams” and set up not to lose. Three in midfield 2 of whom are relative rookies won’t work

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Not a popular view but if we are going to do well next season go away to the “big teams” and set up not to lose. Three in midfield 2 of whom are relative rookies won’t work

Next seasons team will be vastly different though. We all know the Holloway mindset is to let the opposition worry about us which sounds great.

There might be the odd case to respect the opposition a bit more - maybe Man City away in the cup!

I might be setting myself up for a fall but I would expect next seasons team to be feared.

I hope so anyway.

Has anyone considered if the team stayed over the day before.  Travelling a long way can bring on fatigue especially towards the backend of the season.  

Whatever Olly is doing in terms of looking at the squad, giving them all a chance etc. etc. I think he needs to pick his best eleven and set them up to win on Saturday
He said in the interview he knows how important it is for us and if he makes another 6 changes and we lose again it will be into Bignot territory. Not suggesting there are any other similarities but with the season effectively over this is a massive game. Lose again on Saturday and the 1000 fans who have returned recently will be back on their bikes very quickly

This must be the first match for a long time where there hasn't been a "Just Back" thread.

Think the match thread has morphed into the Just Back thread  , , , , unless nobody is back yet?!