Can't be worse than Friday, can it ?

England XI: Pickford, Trippier, Maguire, Mings, Chilwell, Winks, Henderson, Barkley, Sterling, Kane, Rashford.

Quoted from promotion plaice

Can't be worse than Friday, can it ?

England XI: Pickford, Trippier, Maguire, Mings, Chilwell, Winks, Henderson, Barkley, Sterling, Kane, Rashford.

No idea why you got red crossed for stating the obvious??...
Friday was awful, be interesting if chillwell can run the wing as effectively as he does for Leicester in an England shirt..

Pleased to see Keane drop out too. I'm going to confidently predict a routine win again.

It tells you all you need to know that Henderson was in Southgate's first squad and is still in the team how poor our squad really is. Now waits for all the Liverpool supporters to red cross

Quoted from Gaffer58

It tells you all you need to know that Henderson was in Southgate's first squad and is still in the team how poor our squad really is. Now waits for all the Liverpool supporters to red cross

You won't be getting a red cross from me because I only support Town and England   ;)

Get in....great goal from Rashford.

Jurgen Klopp seems to like him too, I suspect he knows a thing or 2.

Good start (again!). Looked like rubbish goalkeeping to me.

Here we go, racist abuse, announcement to the crowd.

This could get nasty.

2 zip

3-0, easy

Shows how meaningless most of these qualifiers are, we're not a great side and yet we've lost only one in the last 10 years!...about time some of these sides had their own groups, must be soul destroying for the likes of San Marino and Gibraltar.

Quoted from Grimbiggs

Shows how meaningless most of these qualifiers are, we're not a great side and yet we've lost only one in the last 10 years!...about time some of these sides had their own groups, must be soul destroying for the likes of San Marino and Gibraltar.

You know how bad San Marino are when Scotland beat them 6-0.

Playing a lot better . Southgate obviously trying to win this one with a more experienced team. but opposition absolutely shite. Southgate just spoke to 4th official again about racial. Cansee this getting called off

Does the scoreline stand if it gets abandoned ?

The Bulgarian FA bloke who said there were no racism problems there will be feeling stupid when he gets UEFA's hard hitting £358 fine in the post.

Quoted from promotion plaice

Does the scoreline stand if it gets abandoned ?

Can't see the point in abandoning the game as the morons will have won.

Just better to give them a damn good stuffing.

Will we really walk  Ff at 3-0 up, would like to think so but cannot see it.

4-0, Bulgaria are flipping shite, Trifon Ivanov will be turning in his grave!

Quoted from promotion plaice

You know how bad San Marino are when Scotland beat them 6-0.

I think at this rate San Marino would give Bulgaria a game  ;D

Quoted from promotion plaice

You know how bad San Marino are when Scotland beat them 6-0.

Oh,  I thought that was the rugby 😉

Quoted from Gaffer58

Will we really walk  Ff at 3-0 up, would like to think so but cannot see it.

The ref will take the players off next time I think.

New instructions say he has to

Its a disgrace

Who cares about the score line, bigger things at stake.

IMHO I get the walk off bit and would be 100% behind the England players and management if they did tonight or in any fixture.

I just hope the powers that be and their officials will be consistent if the players face the same sh1t on a bigger stage.

Fair play to Popov for having a word with his own fans at HT.

It’s now a training game

Nice finish by Sterling 5-0, Town could have beaten this lot   8)

Quoted from promotion plaice

Nice finish by Sterling 5-0, Town could have beaten this lot   8)

Not on Saturdays showing they couldn't!!🤔🤔⚽

Could have been 10+ TBH

Quoted from Abdul19

The Bulgarian FA bloke who said there were no racism problems there will be feeling stupid when he gets UEFA's hard hitting £358 fine in the post.

It'll be €358.... and payable in affordable monthly installments over the next 5 years no doubt ::)

This just shows what thick knobheads racists are. Those idiots with their Nazi insignia - yes, those same Nazis who wanted to thin out the Slav populations to provide living space for the Germans.

Eastern Europe does still have a problem, no doubt.

So does the UK, but it seems to be idiots on social media over here more than anything.

Regarding the game, every time I see Harry Winks play for England makes me think he has to be 1st choice, he oozes class.

Pleased for Mings. I’d like to see Grealish called up for the next games, and Abraham given a go.

Trent Alexander-Arnold has to be the long term answer at right back.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

This just shows what thick knobheads racists are. Those idiots with their Nazi insignia - yes, those same Nazis who wanted to thin out the Slav populations to provide living space for the Germans.

Would the racist who red-crossed this like to out himself?  The irony is they talk about others being lesser human beings. ;D

Macca and the defence could learn a lot from Pickford and Englands backs very rarely does he kick the ball out from open play there is always a player availiable to take the ball short and build up.

The Racist stuff was bad most east european sides teams have a large racist element despite having coloured players of there own. I noticed it calmed down after a large group of Nazi saluting idiots were removed most had hoods and masks on.



Full marks for Mings for pointing it out but pity it was this lads frustration that prompted action in the first place.

The FA chairman forgot his name already.

Said FIFA takes racistium very seriously .

What a plonker.

Must be said, it's the first time I've seen Mings play and thought he looked to have a lot of potential. Quick and athletic and very comfortable with the ball at his feet for an English central defender. Obviously, he didn't have a great deal of defending to do last night but, assuming he can actually do what is required defensively, a good prospect for the future.

Agree on Mings Maringer. He is 26 now and were it not for a bad injury robbing him of nearly 2 years he would probably be on 10-15 caps. Need Gomez to get regular football and Stones, when fit, to eradicate silly mistakes. We then have 4 centre halves along with plenty of full backs to pick from.

Whether they can work as a unit to defend against top 10 sides is another question.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

This just shows what thick knobheads racists are. Those idiots with their Nazi insignia - yes, those same Nazis who wanted to thin out the Slav populations to provide living space for the Germans.

There are a lot of ironies in it aren’t there?

A game of football with insults and monkey chants thrown in is small beer in a region where genocide has been practiced for generations even before Nazism existed. Racism is part and parcel of life there but of course it shocked our western liberal sensibilities when it came to the fore in the Balkan War after being swept under the carpet for decades. The same applies to the Turks and the Kurds and of course anti-Semitism, you could go round the world finding the same hatred with different names attached. Is Qatar an anti-racist paradise? And our answer? Bring ‘em off the field for a bit. That’ll teach ‘em!

The other irony that may not be lost on Sterling this morning, when he thinks about it, is the support and chants he got from England fans who have been as racist against him as anyone since he got in the team. Last night it was not so much support for anti-racism they were showing as a case of my enemy’s enemy is my friend.

No, if we really want to beat racism we have to fight fire with fire and ban countries from competition. But, hey, we can’t do that can we? There’s money involved and the coffers of UEFA and FIFA must be kept filled.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

There are a lot of ironies in it aren’t there?

A game of football with insults and monkey chants thrown in is small beer in a region where genocide has been practiced for generations even before Nazism existed. Racism is part and parcel of life there but of course it shocked our western liberal sensibilities when it came to the fore in the Balkan War after being swept under the carpet for decades. The same applies to the Turks and the Kurds and of course anti-Semitism, you could go round the world finding the same hatred with different names attached. Is Qatar an anti-racist paradise? And our answer? Bring ‘em off the field for a bit. That’ll teach ‘em!

The other irony that may not be lost on Sterling this morning, when he thinks about it, is the support and chants he got from England fans who have been as racist against him as anyone since he got in the team. Last night it was not so much support for anti-racism they were showing as a case of my enemy’s enemy is my friend.

No, if we really want to beat racism we have to fight fire with fire and ban countries from competition. But, hey, we can’t do that can we? There’s money involved and the coffers of UEFA and FIFA must be kept filled.

How do you know those same England fans are racist? That’s harsh.

England fans were frustrated at Sterling's inability to replicate club form. Certainly not the case now. The major culprits were some of the papers with their racist undertones in numerous articles.

Quoted from Mrs Doyle

Macca and the defence could learn a lot from Pickford and Englands backs very rarely does he kick the ball out from open play there is always a player availiable to take the ball short and build up.

You mean like when they fannied about and gifted the Czechs their winner?

Quoted from KingstonMariner

This just shows what thick knobheads racists are. Those idiots with their Nazi insignia - yes, those same Nazis who wanted to thin out the Slav populations to provide living space for the Germans.

Bulgaria were part of the Axis powers in WW2. Did their own bit of invading (Romania) and fought for the Nazis at Stalingrad and elsewhere on the Eastern front.

Quoted from Heisenberg

How do you know those same England fans are racist? That’s harsh.

Just an inspired guess after hearing the “No Surrender” stuff again last night.

The next time there is an international game in Bulgaria maybe FIFA could appoint a ref from an African nation just to show how the game is now a truly international game and not just for European elitists.

Banning Bulgaria from the remaining Euro tournament is pointless. Ban them from the next one and from the World Cup. Also ban their clubs from European competitions until they clean up their act.

Remember how they banned us for acts of violence and the length of the bans? Is violence at football matches worse than the racism we witnessed last night?

Quoted from barralad

Bulgaria were part of the Axis powers in WW2. Did their own bit of invading (Romania) and fought for the Nazis at Stalingrad and elsewhere on the Eastern front.

True. But only because their government was anti-Bolshevik and probably didn’t think the bit about the Slavs being Untermenschen applied to them. They might not have taken that seriously in 1941 but what subsequently happened should leave no Slav with the illusion that somehow Nazism is good for them.

Quoted from barralad

Bulgaria were part of the Axis powers in WW2. Did their own bit of invading (Romania) and fought for the Nazis at Stalingrad and elsewhere on the Eastern front.

True. But only because their government was anti-Bolshevik and probably didn’t think the bit about the Slavs being Untermenschen applied to them. They might not have taken that seriously in 1941 but what subsequently happened should leave no Slav with the illusion that somehow Nazism is good for them.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

There are a lot of ironies in it aren’t there?

A game of football with insults and monkey chants thrown in is small beer in a region where genocide has been practiced for generations even before Nazism existed. Racism is part and parcel of life there but of course it shocked our western liberal sensibilities when it came to the fore in the Balkan War after being swept under the carpet for decades. The same applies to the Turks and the Kurds and of course anti-Semitism, you could go round the world finding the same hatred with different names attached. Is Qatar an anti-racist paradise? And our answer? Bring ‘em off the field for a bit. That’ll teach ‘em!

The other irony that may not be lost on Sterling this morning, when he thinks about it, is the support and chants he got from England fans who have been as racist against him as anyone since he got in the team. Last night it was not so much support for anti-racism they were showing as a case of my enemy’s enemy is my friend.

No, if we really want to beat racism we have to fight fire with fire and ban countries from competition. But, hey, we can’t do that can we? There’s money involved and the coffers of UEFA and FIFA must be kept filled.

You’re trying to be too clever for your own good RRFC.
(1) genocide has not been practised for generations. Sure there’s been ethnic strife for hundreds of years but not genocide. They might have participated in helping round up Jews but that’s not the same as practising genocide for generations.
(2) racism is part and parcel of life there. Where? How do you know? Sounds a bit of a slur on all Balkan’s/Bulgarians/whoever you meant by ‘there’
(3) I’m sure you’ve heard of the idea that two wrongs don’t make a right. Any racism by English person does not excuse racism by any Bulgarian.
(4) Bringing them off the field is a step on the way to the country concerned being banned.
(5) so far Qatar hasn’t breached any anti-racist rule.
(6) Big brands will not want to be associated with tournaments were stuff like this happens. They will vote with their money. So yes, that will teach them.

What’s your solution? Continue to stick your head in the sand and show ignorance and flawed logic?

Quoted from barralad

Bulgaria were part of the Axis powers in WW2. Did their own bit of invading (Romania) and fought for the Nazis at Stalingrad and elsewhere on the Eastern front.

Then switched sides before the end when Adolf was getting his backside kicked, the Nazi salute is illegal in Germany it's a shame that it's not around the rest the globe as well.  

Quoted from KingstonMariner

You’re trying to be too clever for your own good RRFC.
(1) genocide has not been practised for generations. Sure there’s been ethnic strife for hundreds of years but not genocide. They might have participated in helping round up Jews but that’s not the same as practising genocide for generations.
(2) racism is part and parcel of life there. Where? How do you know? Sounds a bit of a slur on all Balkan’s/Bulgarians/whoever you meant by ‘there’
(3) I’m sure you’ve heard of the idea that two wrongs don’t make a right. Any racism by English person does not excuse racism by any Bulgarian.
(4) Bringing them off the field is a step on the way to the country concerned being banned.
(5) so far Qatar hasn’t breached any anti-racist rule.
(6) Big brands will not want to be associated with tournaments were stuff like this happens. They will vote with their money. So yes, that will teach them.

What’s your solution? Continue to stick your head in the sand and show ignorance and flawed logic?

You are right, it is a slur on the Balkans, surely that is the least sort of condemnation the region deserves after the 1990s conflict. Every state in the area has been afflicted at some level for centuries including violence and genocide because none of the Balkan states, including Bulgaria, is composed of a single homogeneous group and each has tried at various times to enlist the help of a Big Brother, be it Communist or Fascist.

My point is much simpler than you seem to imagine. I’m not being clever at all, just stating the obvious. There is no answer to racism in internationals other than banning countries from competitions. I am simply putting the point that as soon as we try to do this as the only thing that will work, those countries will cry victim and point at somebody else who should be banned too. Those are the two wrongs that don’t make a right.

Qatar? How do you think are they building the stadia? The Independent  among others ran a piece about slavery of migrant workers and death rates more than 2 years ago. That is real racism. Where is FIFA’s stand on this?

Quoted from KingstonMariner

You’re trying to be too clever for your own good RRFC.
(1) genocide has not been practised for generations. Sure there’s been ethnic strife for hundreds of years but not genocide. They might have participated in helping round up Jews but that’s not the same as practising genocide for generations.
(2) racism is part and parcel of life there. Where? How do you know? Sounds a bit of a slur on all Balkan’s/Bulgarians/whoever you meant by ‘there’
(3) I’m sure you’ve heard of the idea that two wrongs don’t make a right. Any racism by English person does not excuse racism by any Bulgarian.
(4) Bringing them off the field is a step on the way to the country concerned being banned.
(5) so far Qatar hasn’t breached any anti-racist rule.
(6) Big brands will not want to be associated with tournaments were stuff like this happens. They will vote with their money. So yes, that will teach them.

What’s your solution? Continue to stick your head in the sand and show ignorance and flawed logic?

Agree with Kingston, if a person accepts racism is "part and parcel" in any form then what does that say about them?  

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Agree with Kingston, if a person accepts racism is "part and parcel" in any form then what does that say about them?  

Sadly, I think they are being realistic

[tweet]1183839961180717057[/tweet]

I did hear the England fans singing "" he's one of our own Raheem STERLING he's one of our own""  Later in the game.

What happened last night was abhorrent. End of. I think we all know UEFA and / or FIFA will do b*gger all about it, because that his their modus operandi.

RRFC is absolutely right about banning being the only option, but then again where do you stop if as he says "No surrender" isn't counted as racist, or the whole raft of anti German songs that abound among the travelling England support?

Like a lot of fans, I lived through this kind of sh1te in the 70s and 80s and really don't want it to become the norm again, but we live in strange times where the PM and his government think it okay to play the racist card time after time after time. It's no wonder racism doesn't go away really, is it?

Quoted from mimma

The next time there is an international game in Bulgaria maybe FIFA could appoint a ref from an African nation just to show how the game is now a truly international game and not just for European elitists.

Banning Bulgaria from the remaining Euro tournament is pointless. Ban them from the next one and from the World Cup. Also ban their clubs from European competitions until they clean up their act.

Remember how they banned us for acts of violence and the length of the bans? Is violence at football matches worse than the racism we witnessed last night?

Racism is unacceptable in any way, shape or form. But violence that ends in scores of deaths is worse. Much worse.

The point I was (badly) trying to make, is that FIFA were making the same sort of noises regarding crowd trouble then, as they are about racism today.

Then they gave out massive bans to English clubs as a deterrent. Will they be so brave as to set the same level of punishment to Bulgaria as they did to us back then.

One more point about some of the comments from last night. It was stated by several different bodies and in the press that there is still problems with racism in English grounds. The difference is that when it occurs here the authorities clamp down on it, using CCTV to identify those responsible and prosecute them including lengthy bans. Last night there was no action taken against the racists. Police and officials stood back and did nothing. Bulgarian officials police and press pretended not to hear it or played it down. The perpetrators are clearly identifiable but will probably escape any punishment.

UEFA have serious questions to answer over the whole incident, and as what action they are going to take as a deterrent.

Quoted from mimma

Remember how they banned us for acts of violence and the length of the bans? Is violence at football matches worse than the racism we witnessed last night?

In that particular scenario it was as a result of the 600 injuries and 39 deaths at Heysel.....i would say that is worse than the chanting and gestures that were made during the game the other night.

Quoted from moosey_club

In that particular scenario it was as a result of the 600 injuries and 39 deaths at Heysel.....i would say that is worse than the chanting and gestures that were made during the game the other night.

Yes, a couple of you have beaten me to this. What happened at Heysel is just unthinkable. They were bad times. These are bad enough, but mass loss of life at a sporting arena, caused by morons, it was unforgivable really.

Quoted from 139881

Its only really banned in countries which Germany occupied during the war (inc. Switzerland and Israel)

I assume you mean as well as rather than “inc”?

Latest from UEFA:
Bulgaria have been charged for the events last night.
England have also been charged with "disrupting the nation anthem "

You couldn't make it up!

Not sure if it has already been mentioned on this thread but allegedly Official 'spotters' saw Bulgarian stewards and stadium security 'remove their bibs before racially abusing England's black players, shocking if true.

Quoted from mimma

Latest from UEFA:
Bulgaria have been charged for the events last night.
England have also been charged with "disrupting the nation anthem "

You couldn't make it up!

The two 'offences' are of course vastly different so hopefully the penalities / fines will reflect that, but we can't female dog and moan about UEFA and then expect them to ignore something (however trivial in our eyes) from the England fans

Quoted from Ipswin

The two 'offences' are of course vastly different so hopefully the penalities / fines will reflect that, but we can't female dog and moan about UEFA and then expect them to ignore something (however trivial in our eyes) from the England fans

Whilst I agree with your sentiments swin, the England fans purely reacted to the Bulgarian fans after they jeered, booed and changed right through our anthem...it was mammary for tat and in reality UEFA didn't bring that to the table, ultimately they've bottled it by not going straight for the jugular and chucking Bulgaria out the finals, and while I'm on it, Montenegro should have gone too,...why girl private foot about around these nations that have vast majority of racist fans, yes we have the small minority of racially aggravated problems through the England's fan base but I cannot remember the last time we had these problems in one of our stadiums..

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Whilst I agree with your sentiments swin, the England fans purely reacted to the Bulgarian fans after they jeered, booed and changed right through our anthem...it was mammary for tat and in reality UEFA didn't bring that to the table, ultimately they've bottled it by not going straight for the jugular and chucking Bulgaria out the finals, and while I'm on it, Montenegro should have gone too,...why girl private foot about around these nations that have vast majority of racist fans, yes we have the small minority of racially aggravated problems through the England's fan base but I cannot remember the last time we had these problems in one of our stadiums..

You may be right. You wouldn’t get it at Wmberlee but not because fans here are avowed anti-racists. It’s simply practical because there is no other country to have a go at. It would be ludicrous even for an ardent England racist to have a go at a black French bloke or an African team when there are so many black players now in the England squad. So our fans content themselves with No Surrender or The Great Escape and anything else anti-German. I think they call that “banter”.

What you say about Bulgaria just proves my point earlier in this thread. As soon as there was a threat of being chucked out the finger pointing started about the national anthem and UEFA backed off from a ban straightaway.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Whilst I agree with your sentiments swin, the England fans purely reacted to the Bulgarian fans after they jeered, booed and changed right through our anthem...it was mammary for tat and in reality UEFA didn't bring that to the table, ultimately they've bottled it by not going straight for the jugular and chucking Bulgaria out the finals, and while I'm on it, Montenegro should have gone too,...why girl private foot about around these nations that have vast majority of racist fans, yes we have the small minority of racially aggravated problems through the England's fan base but I cannot remember the last time we had these problems in one of our stadiums..

One small point, Bulgaria aren't going to the finals, they are bottom of the league.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

As soon as there was a threat of being chucked out the finger pointing started about the national anthem

Of course it did, just as it would have started here if we had been in Bulgaria's position. England fans always abuse the opposition anthem in some way or other - yes even, or rather especially, at Wembley when we outnumber the visitors.

It's a mere nothing of course compared to racist behaviour but it is against UEFA rules and we all want UEFA to enforce their rules don't we?

Which makes you have to wonder, just what sort of a male private do you have to be to boo somebody else's national anthem? What's the point?

Quoted from arryarryarry

One small point, Bulgaria aren't going to the finals, they are bottom of the league.

Splitting hairs there arry, you know what the sentiment was, UEFA should have had the gusto to throw them out the competition, tell them to sort their act ready for the world cup qualifiers...which, yes I know us a FIFA competition...then get FIFA onside as to act accordingly should such behaviour be repeated during any, home or away, qualifying fixture.

Quoted from Ipswin

Of course it did, just as it would have started here if we had been in Bulgaria's position. England fans always abuse the opposition anthem in some way or other - yes even, or rather especially, at Wembley when we outnumber the visitors.

It's a mere nothing of course compared to racist behaviour but it is against UEFA rules and we all want UEFA to enforce their rules don't we?

Expecting FIFA or UEFA to act on a complaint by England with the full force of the rules is like urinating into a typhoon.

It is not so much because Bulgaria (or Montenegro, or anyone else) has lots of allies in FIFA/UEFA, more that England is Johnny No-Mates.

Quoted from arryarryarry

One small point, Bulgaria aren't going to the finals, they are bottom of the league.

I'm pretty sure I heard that irrespective of their performance in these group stages, they can still qualify for the Euros through a play off because of their Nations League results?

How that works I don't know but unless UEFA ban them because of their racism record, they are still in with a good chance of being in next year's tournament

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

It is not so much because Bulgaria (or Montenegro, or anyone else) has lots of allies in FIFA/UEFA, more that England is Johnny No-Mates.

Perhaps the behaviour of (some of) our fans whilst abroad and in drink at FIFA and UEFA competition matches has rightly or wrongly soured our reputation forever

They could ban them from the next world cup and ban their club sides from European competitions.  That would hurt the racists that support these clubs. Fines don't work and are no deterrent. Closing part of the stadium didn't work either.