Move to Brexit thread if you wish,

https://www.scotsman.com/news/crime/scottish-court-to-decide-whether-boris-johnson-can-be-jailed-over-no-deal-brexit-1-5015160

First time I've ever thought the FGR chap was a good bloke

Quoted from Ipswin

First time I've ever thought the FGR chap was a good bloke

As one of the 'usual suspects', I agree.

Ermm.... Nah....

Jailed for upholding the will of the people in the largest democratic mandate in the history of our nation 🤔

Crooked liar, absolutely horrible human being but shouting for Brexit makes him ok?
These Eton boys are born to rule and know what’s best for us, best to buy the bullshit and tug the forelock

It staggers me that anybody thinks that girl private gives a flying intercourse about normal people.

Quoted from Ipswin

First time I've ever thought the FGR chap was a good bloke

You'll be joining in with the group below with comments like that  ;D

Quoted from Rik e B

Jailed for upholding the will of the people in the largest democratic mandate in the history of our nation 🤔

It wasn't the largest democratic mandate in UK history. More nonsensical claims from the Brexiteers. ;)

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-referendum-not-largest-democratic-exercise/

Quoted from Rik e B

Jailed for upholding the will of the people in the largest democratic mandate in the history of our nation 🤔

Don’t be ridiculous.

Quoted from Maringer

It wasn't the largest democratic mandate in UK history. More nonsensical claims from the Brexiteers. ;)

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-referendum-not-largest-democratic-exercise/

No, but they still won.... Fact check that 😘

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

It staggers me that anybody thinks that girl private gives a flying intercourse about normal people.

Which one? Johnson or Vince?

Quoted from Maringer

It wasn't the largest democratic mandate in UK history. More nonsensical claims from the Brexiteers. ;)

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-referendum-not-largest-democratic-exercise/

Okay,

Quoted Text

“the largest mandate for anything in British political history”. This is a more accurate version of the claim

to cite your source.

Don't like or trust Boris for the record, but I loathe more the MP's who feel they know better than their leave voting constituencies and go back on the manifestos they were elected on, Labour, Tory or other. All said they would the honour result of referendum in 2017 General Election.



Let's have all constituencies represented by an MP who honours their democratic wishes, but the current hangers-on refuse by-elections where applicable and now a General Election! This zombie parliament would be no more and we'd actually get somewhere... No wonder us peasants are furious!

True democrats on the Remain side also agree the result should be respected.

Have you done any research since 2016 as it’s not evident in your conclusions..?

Quoted from Rik e B

Don't like or trust Boris for the record, but I loathe more the MP's who feel they know better than their leave voting constituencies and go back on the manifestos they were elected on, Labour, Tory or other. All said they would the honour result of referendum in 2017 General Election.



Let's have all constituencies represented by an MP who honours their democratic wishes, but the current hangers-on refuse by-elections where applicable and now a General Election! This zombie parliament would be no more and we'd actually get somewhere... No wonder us peasants are furious!

True democrats on the Remain side also agree the result should be respected.

Sorry Rik but this is a massive over simplification that is one of the root causes of the stalemate. "Just honour the result" suggests that M.P.s should jump at the first opportunity to vote for a deal. Were that the case then May's deal would have sailed through. It didn't and ultimately failed to do so because approximately 100 Tory M.P.s who've spent the last few years telling anyone who would listen how we'd be better out of the E.U.  voted against it. It smacks of the worst sort of double standards if people laud the likes of the ERG for their stance whilst criticising those so called Remain M.P.s for theirs. The fundamental issue is what people believe their M.P. is elected to do. There was no clear steer on what Brexit actually should look like so M.P.s were left to try to make sense of it. The likes of Melanie Onn voted against Mays deal because it didn't offer protection for jobs etc. Rees-Mogg voted against because it didn't go far enough. The reasons are irrelevant because the nett result is we are currently still in the E.U. Either all dissenters are to blame or none.

Absolutely correct Barra

People who shout for Brexit from any other background than the aristocracy are quite frankly brain dead morons. Look at the type of people who champion it; Rees-Mogg, Farage, Johnson, Banks, Odey, Trump. You've lost your minds if you think this is about anything other than already rich pieces of excrement making themselves even richer by shorting the pound with their hedge funds. Wake the intercourse up people!

Quoted from gtfc98

People who shout for Brexit from any other background than the aristocracy are quite frankly brain dead morons. Look at the type of people who champion it; Rees-Mogg, Farage, Johnson, Banks, Odey, Trump. You've lost your minds if you think this is about anything other than already rich pieces of excrement making themselves even richer by shorting the pound with their hedge funds. Wake the intercourse up people!

The people will find themselves on the dole, sat at home in their Union Jack boxers sat with pride that they ‘got their country back’. They’ll vote Tory or Brexit party in the next GE and more than likely vote for policies that stagnate the dole money they’d get whilst the cost of living rises so they struggle to pay bills and feed themselves but at least their vote will stop freedom of movement for them foreigns who’ve stolen their jobs at the hand car washes and in the fields that they were in before. Their health will deteriorate and they’ll have voted for more and eventual complete privatisation for the NHS but at least ‘British fish’ will be back on docks etc etc etc.

It’s depressing that the 48% will have to suffer this fate too - if it was 80-20 or even 70-30 it might be easier to live with but so near to a 50-50 split it’s hard to stomach.

Quoted from Rik e B

Okay,

to cite your source.

It appears that you have forgotten that in general elections, it isn't a binary question. Everyone has several candidates to vote for so the chart posted stupidly compares apples to oranges. If we had a presidential system as in the US, with just two people to vote for most of the time the comparison would be valid, but we don't so it isn't. Whoever produced the chart is either stupid or disingenuous. My guess is disingenuous, as dishonesty was what we saw with most of the Vote Leave claims before the previous referendum. It's just more false propaganda to confuse people who don't have a grasp of the reality.

Anyway, regarding the referendum, it was advisory only. Parliament is still sovereign so it is up to them to decide what to do. Let Johnson get his agreement (or not) and then put that to another, legally-binding referendum. At least then the public will know what they are voting for and if they go for leave, then fair enough. God Help us, but fair enough.

What I don't understand is why would anybody touting democratic accountability want to stop a confirmatory referendum once the details have been nailed down and everyone knows what they are actually voting for? Remember in the lead up to the previous referendum how a deal would be the easiest thing to agree, trade deals would be falling from the sky, there was no mention of the customs union, little said about the single market? Let's have a confirmatory referendum where people are actually educated and informed about what will happen if we still vote to leave. I'm not talking about "Project Fear", here. Let's just use the government forecasts as to the likelihood of what will occur.

Let's also have a less supine media which is willing to fact check claims from either side of the debate to ensure that people aren't making their decision based on complete porky pies.

Totally this.

The other point about not liking MPs who think they know better than the voters Rik, is on balance I'd say they do know btter than the average voter. It's their full time job. Think what you like about their alleged mendacity or otherwise (and they're not all corrupt), they are generally intelligent, well educated people who have a better than average understanding of how business and economies work.

They're representatives not delegates. Elected on the basis of their ability to judge and make decisions on our behalf. Remember the Exit campaign aim of 'returning sovereignty to Parliament'. This is what it means. In my opinion we have a less than satisfactory electoral system and a dire need for a new constitution, but this is the system we have. This is the Parliament that people supposedly wanted back in the driving seat. They've got what they wanted. To use that well used favourite phrase of Brexiteers: Suck it up!

So you take the Edward Burke 1774 view then Kingston?

Quoted Text

Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your opinion.

Smacks of elitism, there's plenty of great minds amongst the 17.4 million who will happily take up booted Remainer MP's seats once the people have their say. These high and mighty MP's will one uday have to seek re-election -the present zombie parliament are dead men walking and they know it.

That blasted thing they call democracy ey? You know, one man one vote, rich or poor, all equal 🙄.

The people are sovereign who delegate to a sovereign parliament (sovereign because it is derived from the sovereignity of the people). Through Brexit we take back control of our laws, money, borders etc. Unlike the unelected EU (the EU Parliament is just for show, the unelected pull the strings from upstairs in shady backroom deals, no doubt under instruction from Goldman Sachs and the likes. And in any case an EU vote is miniscule compared to UK vote), we the people decide when it comes to an Election whether our elected MP's are exercising our democracy in the way we want. If not we kick them out of power.

But our Remain MP's have misled the public bit by bit handing more power over to Brussels through treaties and such, denying Parliament crucial votes or even debates on such important matters only for us to be told later it doesn't matter as the law now states the EU holds the power so it doesn't make any difference we can't amend or whatnot as the ECJ etc hold final sway.

We entered into a Common Market and have tip-toed close to a Federalist Empire (they now openly preaching about this and yes the 'never gonna happen' EU Army as they near their end game) without ever being asked if it what we really want.

Yes I agree the system and even the Constitution is less that satisfactory, especially when you have a Remain activist Speaker and then of course the judiciary getting political also.

Just give us an Election or watch them be wiped out, but they know that, that's why we have the extraordinary situation of the leader of the opposition turning down the chance to take on the Government! They all promised to get us out, I'm sure they know the voters will be keen to prove their dissatisfaction. Not so sovereign then as they kicked to the curb and replaced!

Im sorry I struggle to keep up tapping away on my little phone responses and have neither to time or the inclination most of the time as for one both sides become entrenched and there is no getting anywhere and these political rankings get me so wound up inside, Brexit fatigue, whatever you want to call, it ruins my inner peace (was getting into Spiritual matters before all this Liberal internationalisation globalist push started pressing forward at a rapid pace. What, a spiritus Brexiteers, surely not they all racist neanderthals right?)

But quickly on one of the other points why was The Withdrawal Agreement voted down? Well if you read it, or at least detailed summarys you'd know it an absolute abomination unsatisfactory for Remainers and despicable in the eyes of Leavers. In a nutshell it would leave us as a vassal state in a de facto Customs Union - we'd be better of staying!

But that doesn't mean it proves Brexit a disastrous idea, just that our Remain plotting Government done everything underhand it possibly can to keep us in in all but name. Treason May and Co. have fastracked our integration, not cooperation, integration, into the EU army plan making more progress in weeks than has been done in a decade whereby we will be handing control of all our military, our nukes everything to the unelected EU Commission to do with whatever is in their interests with us having no say, no veto.

At least no we got a veto!

Right that's all for now folks, I could counter all your points, as I'm sure you could again mine, but stuff to do!

I'll leave you with this, forget the backstop it's a smokescreen, the loss of our military with no way back for any Prime Minister, ever, come November 1st is of grave concern, just one (big) reason why the Withdrawal Agreement and Political Declaration is a disaster

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.brugesgroup.com/blog/the-european-army%3fformat=amp

And if you have a bit more stomach for reading

http://veteransforbritain.uk/a-brief-introduction-to-the-risks-for-the-uk-arising-from-current-eu-defence-integration-schemes/

Oh and Chaos, I think it was, I just quickly pulled up a few bits, like I say could spend forever claiming and counterclaim ING. But the Vote Leave lies, is that the ones who were cleared of any and all wrongdoing? 350 mil for NHS, well we pay the EU 1 billion a month so we'd have that to play with. I don't profess to having delved into all the facts and figures on this so you'll probably pull me up on this one I just know we put a hell of a lot in compared to what we get out. As much as the 18 smallest members in fact. (did I already say that? 🤔)

Quoted from gtfc98

People who shout for Brexit from any other background than the aristocracy are quite frankly brain dead morons. Look at the type of people who champion it; Rees-Mogg, Farage, Johnson, Banks, Odey, Trump. You've lost your minds if you think this is about anything other than already rich pieces of excrement making themselves even richer by shorting the pound with their hedge funds. Wake the intercourse up people!

I would love you to take a walk through my little Town that voted nearly 70 to 30 to leave the EU because in the main it is overrun by EU migrants with their wives and young children and knock on a few doors in any of the many terraced streets and call them brain dead morons you would get the excrement kicked out of you.

Oh well if nothing else positive comes out of brexit it’s given a few frustrated ex politics students the chance to regurgitate their 3 years well spent at university on the rest of us poor fookers

Quoted from gtfc98

People who shout for Brexit from any other background than the aristocracy are quite frankly brain dead morons. Look at the type of people who champion it; Rees-Mogg, Farage, Johnson, Banks, Odey, Trump. You've lost your minds if you think this is about anything other than already rich pieces of excrement making themselves even richer by shorting the pound with their hedge funds. Wake the intercourse up people!

Quoted from arryarryarry

I would love you to take a walk through my little Town that voted nearly 70 to 30 to leave the EU because in the main it is overrun by EU migrants with their wives and young children and knock on a few doors in any of the many terraced streets and call them brain dead morons you would get the excrement kicked out of you.

They wouldn't get anywhere near gtfc98, with dance moves like this

Its was a once in a lifetime vote you know, remember the one with no mention of a deal to vote for as well.
BUT apparently im brain dead and thick because i voted leave believing it the right thing to do, to be fair im even more leave now than ever.
Those massively educated Remain voters are obviously trying to save us from ourselves because we didn't know what we was voting for being so brain dead.

Oh well we have an amazing remain deal now that guarantees our Fishing waters away where if we wanted defend the trawlers with using the navy we would have to ask our parents in Brussels if that is ok.

One of the odd aspects of the 'no deal' Brexit beloved of Johnson and his ERG backers is that it would pretty much finish off what is left of our fishing industry.

We don't have enough vets to sign off on the paperwork for the export of our fish to customers in the EU which will create some delays (and how many vets are going to be happy to be in the fish markets in the early hours?) and the ensuing queues at the border would lead to a great amount of spoilage.

If the UK fishing industry is going to do well in the future, it is imperative that we have as close a relationship as possible with our main customers which are basically EU countries plus a few in the EFTA. This is something that Johnson and his 'deal' (which is actually worse than the one May negotiated) are keen to avoid - they plan to diverge from EU rules and regulations much further.

Quoted from Maringer

One of the odd aspects of the 'no deal' Brexit beloved of Johnson and his ERG backers is that it would pretty much finish off what is left of our fishing industry.

We don't have enough vets to sign off on the paperwork for the export of our fish to customers in the EU which will create some delays (and how many vets are going to be happy to be in the fish markets in the early hours?) and the ensuing queues at the border would lead to a great amount of spoilage.

If the UK fishing industry is going to do well in the future, it is imperative that we have as close a relationship as possible with our main customers which are basically EU countries plus a few in the EFTA. This is something that Johnson and his 'deal' (which is actually worse than the one May negotiated) are keen to avoid - they plan to diverge from EU rules and regulations much further.

Cobblers! I work at at a decent level in the industry, we as a business in which is one of the largest in the UK  export very little Fish to the EU, the main brunt of business of our export goes to the far east.
As for most of the stuff that does go to the continent is mainly Fish we dont eat as Brits.

Point is that we want our own waters so we can harvest our own fish as Iceland does, Remember Iceland who are not in the EU and who ar one of the biggest exporters of Fish?
Once we control our own waters we will have to invest in a new fishing fleet NOT sell our quota to the super trawlers owned by the Dutch, French and Spanish who continually rape our waters and coastline.
Most of the fish for export to the European continent is caught in our waters by boats not from our waters so is a travesty.

Just repeating reports I've read elsewhere:

https://www.undercurrentnews.com/2019/04/10/trade-insights-more-than-70-of-uk-seafood-exports-go-to-eu/

We import most of the seafood which we eat:

https://www.seafish.org/article/import-and-export

It would be nice if we did our own fishing instead of just selling quotas but I don't think it likely that anything much will change. The wealthy who have bought up the current quotas (mainly British-owned as well) are the ones with access to the boats and the expertise and manpower so will be the ones continuing to do the fishing. The skippers sold off the quotas once, why wouldn't they do it again?

Quoted from monkeyboy

Cobblers! I work at at a decent level in the industry, we as a business in which is one of the largest in the UK  export very little Fish to the EU, the main brunt of business of our export goes to the far east.
As for most of the stuff that does go to the continent is mainly Fish we dont eat as Brits.

Point is that we want our own waters so we can harvest our own fish as Iceland does, Remember Iceland who are not in the EU and who ar one of the biggest exporters of Fish?
Once we control our own waters we will have to invest in a new fishing fleet NOT sell our quota to the super trawlers owned by the Dutch, French and Spanish who continually rape our waters and coastline.
Most of the fish for export to the European continent is caught in our waters by boats not from our waters so is a travesty.

Exactly! So who the intercourse is going to do that? As you pointed out yourself, 'we' sold our quota. Nobody made us do that. What's going to stop it happening again?

You're following the line fed to distract everyone for the real culprits for our problems. 'Blame Brussels!'.