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Enough is surely enough, the EFL are at danger of making themselves look complete and utter Wallys.

If Bury do get thrown out of the FL it isn't the end of the world as a phoenix like club will arise from the ashes and will generate interest like Hereford did when hey did similar.

Have lost all sympathy now, it's just making a mockery of the game. Shouldn't have been promoted last season anyway. Regulations really do need tightening up on this issue.

Absolute insanity at Bury

Their gone if he's hanging out for 3.2m nobody gonna pay that for no players minus 12 points and a backlog of 4 maybe 5 games.

I thought they had a buyer and the this extension was to allow the new buyer some time?

Throw them out, enough is enough.

Another game (their 5th) now suspended by the EFL. Looks like time is fast running out for them.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49356357

With their owner clinging on for £3.6m it's looking increasingly likely that the only way forward will be as a phoenix club rising from the ashes.

Bury are buried !!! ASAP - total EFL mess up !!

https://twitter.com/talkSPORT/status/1162330968604237824

Saga rolls on, absolute joke...

I listened to that on my way home. Absolute car crash radio. Felt for both the player and Dale tbh. Both claiming the other isn't telling the truth. Someone's lying!

Quoted from mariner chopper

https://twitter.com/talkSPORT/status/1162330968604237824

Saga rolls on, absolute joke...

And doesn't that stirring little excrement Jim White love it! As if he gives a toss about Bury FC he just likes the drama, I recall him getting the Belgian chap who is the Charlton owner on a couple of times and leading him to the slaughter too

Quoted from Ipswin

And doesn't that stirring little excrement Jim White love it! As if he gives a toss about Bury FC he just likes the drama, I recall him getting the Belgian chap who is the Charlton owner on a couple of times and leading him to the slaughter too

Jim White is a sycophant, I cannot stand his brown nose approach to most guests, it’s usually embarrassing. Simon Jordan is superb on that show, even if he has swallowed a dictionary, and Bob Mills is decent too as he always gives the lower leagues some air time, but that Jim White is unlistenable.

Put that aside, this Dale character sounds like a complete conman.

Feel for the Bury fans. If the club gets expelled they are going to have to begin again right at the bottom of the pyramid.

After the high of promotion last year, it must be sickening to be going through this.

What is in it for this bloke who owns Bury?? Is he a fan?? What is actually in it for him?? All I keep hearing him saying is "I've saved a football club"

Quoted from Mariner Timsky

What is in it for this bloke who owns Bury?? Is he a fan?? What is actually in it for him?? All I keep hearing him saying is "I've saved a football club"

He also said they won’t go out of business, but that is very different from the club staying in the league.

I thought the PFA was acting as a sort of guarantor for the players’ wages? The accusation from Dawson seems a bit disingenuous to me. Dale may be a pi11ock but it does not make him a crook and it seemed as though the name of the game from the first minute for all the people on there was “get Dale”.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

. Dale may be a pi11ock but it does not make him a crook and it seemed as though the name of the game from the first minute for all the people on there was “get Dale”.

That's the way Jim White works

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

I thought the PFA was acting as a sort of guarantor for the players’ wages? The accusation from Dawson seems a bit disingenuous to me. Dale may be a pi11ock but it does not make him a crook and it seemed as though the name of the game from the first minute for all the people on there was “get Dale”.

But do you think Dawson is lying? Either way, for Dale, who presumably has money, to say “the PFA have paid the players “ seems to be majorly ducking his own responsibilities, and like Dawson said, anything they do get from the PFA is a loan. I think he also said it’s only 50% of their wages too (apologies if I have this wrong).

Anyway, it’s a right mess.

Monthly agreement on wages:
50% Steve Dale
50% PFA
= 100% wages

Dale states he has paid his monthly 50% since the CBA. Which is his share. Maybe not as SD says.

He has a seperate agreement to pay back the PFA at a later date.

Quoted from Meza

Monthly agreement on wages:
50% Steve Dale
50% PFA
= 100% wages

Dale states he has paid his monthly 50% since the CBA. Which is his share. Maybe not as SD says.

He has a seperate agreement to pay back the PFA at a later date.

If this is true, there is some irresponsible journalism here and Sky and white should be called to account.
There is far too much press power all round and incorrect or biased reporting is not acceptable
A combination of press power and Premiership dominance is ruining football for the true fan.

Whilst Clee and Gy Borough are in competition with the Mariners, they do at least still have a pure approach to sport.

Quoted from Meza

Monthly agreement on wages:
50% Steve Dale
50% PFA
= 100% wages

Dale states he has paid his monthly 50% since the CBA. Which is his share. Maybe not as SD says.

He has a seperate agreement to pay back the PFA at a later date.

The 50% from the PFA is only a loan and the player has to pay it back.

Kicked out the EFL Cup now and had their 6th game suspended by the league.

Owner Steve Dale has also alegedly turned down another offer to buy the club.

Time is fast running out for them unfortunately.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49410172

Debbie Jevons has just said on Sky that in the event of Bury going under only one team will be relegated from league two this year

Deal close to be being agreed. Hold fire on us only Needing to finish second worst.

Quoted from psgmariner

Deal close to be being agreed. Hold fire on us only Needing to finish second worst.

So yet again football will learn nothing. Clubs will continue to spend wildly, and fans will always assume there’s a knight in shining armour ready to save their club.

Quoted from Heisenberg

So yet again football will learn nothing. Clubs will continue to spend wildly, and fans will always assume there’s a knight in shining armour ready to save their club.

Agree.

That’s why I am thankful we owe money to Fenty rather than ripping off creditors by going in to admin or worse.

Can you remember when Scunny's assistant manager (Chris Lucketti) was appointed manager at Bury & he was sacked exactly 8 weeks later?

Well he's still owed £91,132.36 by Bury.

Chris Brass was appointed a year before Lucketti and he last exactly 13 weeks.

He's still owed £90.930.28.

Steven Dale who bought Bury FC for £1 in February is listed as being owed £3.68 million on the CVA agreement. The CVA was agreed at repayment of 25p for every £1 owed. So, Steven Dale would have been entitled to £920,000.

I wonder how much of his own money above the £1 purchase cost he's actually put in?

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Can you remember when Scunny's assistant manager (Chris Lucketti) was appointed manager at Bury & he was sacked exactly 8 weeks later?

Well he's still owed £91,132.36 by Bury.

Chris Brass was appointed a year before Lucketti and he last exactly 13 weeks.

He's still owed £90.930.28.

Enough’s enough now, they need chucking out. A deadline is a deadline in my eyes, it doesn’t seem right that they could get an extension. Dale is now asking for fans to pledge money, just a few hours before the deadline, it’s preposterous!

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Steven Dale who bought Bury FC for £1 in February is listed as being owed £3.68 million on the CVA agreement. The CVA was agreed at repayment of 25p for every £1 owed. So, Steven Dale would have been entitled to £920,000.

I wonder how much of his own money above the £1 purchase cost he's actually put in?

He'll have taken more out than he's put in. The Bury fans view him as the classic asset stripper, and he's set up two different companies to hold various assets "To protect them from asset stripping" Of course....One of said companies is to look after the clubs memorabilia, and given they won the FA Cup twice in three years during Victorian times, if there's shirts / medals in that lot they'll be worth a lot of money, ditto and silverware from days of yore.

It will end in tears, and I think it has to. As long as they're in hock to the one man (now where have I heard that before?) they'll always be in debt. Get thrown out of the league and come back again, as I've said before. It's really the only way to make any kind of go of things, a la Hereford.

Their biggest listed creditor is RCR Holdings. They are owed £7,111,480.65. RCR Holdings were registered with Companies House on 16th July 2019- 2 days before the Bury FC CVA meeting was reconvened & concluded following an earlier adjournment.

This debt along with the £3.68m than Steven Dale is claiming originate from money that the previous owner (Stewart Day) loaned the club from another of his businesses. That business was liquidated and the administrator sold the BUry FC debt to RCR Holding for a value of 1/100 of the debt. So RCR Holding paid £71,114.81 for the debt.

Who are RCR Holding? Good question. They only have 1 director- Kris Richards and the registered office of the company is 113 Robinson Street, Oldham which is a rather grotty end terrace property in an undesirable part of town.

Technically, as the CVA was agreed, RCR Holding are going to be repaid £1,777,870.16 for a debt they acquired for just over £70,000.

Late this afternoon the EFL are now saying that they are having talks with a buyer. BUT qualify this with 3 big obstacles: chaotic balance sheet, Dale’s demands (presumably very unrealistic) and the lack of time to achieve anything.

Looks like a NO then?

GollyGTFC, I understand there are companies that buy up blocks of dept at the equivalent of a penny for a pound, so a £100 pound dept costs £1, they then hope to get this d pt paid his making a tidy return.

They’ll get a reprieve because the EFL haven’t got the stones to chuck anyone out.

Nobody wants Dale to find a buyer more than them as it would require them to actually do something other than arrange fixtures and organise the annual Portugal urine-Up.

Not being mean but how many chances did Rushden and Diamonds and Darlington get before they were shut down. Bury seem to have had reprieve after reprieve.

Quoted from Stew0_0

Not being mean but how many chances did Rushden and Diamonds and Darlington get before they were shut down. Bury seem to have had reprieve after reprieve.

A Non-League club goes out of business and it's not important even if they were very recently in the EFL. An EFL club goes under and it's a disgrace and it's all the EFL's fault & it's not fair on the fans blah blah blah.

Quoted from Gaffer58

GollyGTFC, I understand there are companies that buy up blocks of dept at the equivalent of a penny for a pound, so a £100 pound dept costs £1, they then hope to get this d pt paid his making a tidy return.

The issue is that this company was purely set up to acquire the debt and then had control of the CVA process through their share of the total debt. They are able to make a tidy profit whilst HMRC have had a settlement imposed on them that sees the public purse lose out to the tune of £830,000.

So am I right in thinking Dale bought the club for £1, put very little oh his own money into the club but now will be paid between £900k and £3m once it is sold?

Quoted from Mighty_Mariner

So am I right in thinking Dale bought the club for £1, put very little oh his own money into the club but now will be paid between £900k and £3m once it is sold?

He'll receive whatever he gets for the club itself (he was demanding £800,000 until recently) & £920,000 as the CVA is serviced at a minimum.

Quoted from Mighty_Mariner

So am I right in thinking Dale bought the club for £1, put very little oh his own money into the club but now will be paid between £900k and £3m once it is sold?

Presumably some bury fan chose to sell the club to Mr Dale and now does not want to accept responsibility for his actions.

Also presumably the EFL were consulted on the fit and proper person test for Mr Dale so they are implicated.

At the end of the day the fans suffer and the power brokers move on to their next dirty trick.
We will probably never find out the truth, but the fact remains that Bury gained promotion by paying unsustainable wages and should be let go.

I think the EFL have done all that they reasonably could. I keep reading on twitter that the EFL "should give an extension". No. Bury were served with their 14 day notice period 4 weeks ago. They already had an extension when it was suspended for 14 days. At some point you have to say "enough is enough" and expel them.

The punishment for insolvency events needs tightening up. Automatic demotion.

Loans from companies owned by club owners should be banned also. Bury FC owe around £11m to one of the previous owners companies.

I saw recently that last season, against the rules of gate income to wages, Bury were paying about two and a half times the wages the average division 2 side were.

Quoted from Mallyner

I saw recently that last season, against the rules of gate income to wages, Bury were paying about two and a half times the wages the average division 2 side were.

Exactly
That’s why they have gone bust

Possible resolution.

https://twitter.com/JWTelegraph/status/1164991449148076032?s=20

All depressingly predictable.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49455433

Their completely fecked anyways how the hell they gonna get through to the next transfer window with like three players and a six game backlog?

Sounds like this consortium want another extension to determine viability rather than a straight buy out and all is rosey again

Quoted from GollyGTFC

I think the EFL have done all that they reasonably could. I keep reading on twitter that the EFL "should give an extension". No. Bury were served with their 14 day notice period 4 weeks ago. They already had an extension when it was suspended for 14 days. At some point you have to say "enough is enough" and expel them.

The punishment for insolvency events needs tightening up. Automatic demotion.

Loans from companies owned by club owners should be banned also. Bury FC owe around £11m to one of the previous owners companies.

I seem to recall that the Glaziers borrowed the money to buy Manure !

Quoted from Stew0_0

Not being mean but how many chances did Rushden and Diamonds and Darlington get before they were shut down. Bury seem to have had reprieve after reprieve.

It's groundhog day when Portsmouth had loads of debt got relegated with players on 60k a week and everyone was lenient with them. Nothing has changed since then. I hate clubs that get away with things when other clubs are working within the rules. Yes the fans suffer but they will get the club back Darlo have.... Halifax have its time to expell them.

Let’s be honest, if Bury has been relegated to the National League last season and were now Non-League then nobody (fans or media) would give a shite.

Quoted from Meza

It's groundhog day when Portsmouth had loads of debt got relegated with players on 60k a week and everyone was lenient with them. Nothing has changed since then. I hate clubs that get away with things when other clubs are working within the rules.[b][/b] Yes the fans suffer but they will get the club back Darlo have.... Halifax have its time to expell them.

Yes you can feel sorry for the fans, but the its no different from ball tampering in cricket, its against the rules (laws). If the club is sold to a viable owner/consortium the club can continue but they should be sent to the bottom of the pile - four or five leagues down the pyramid...

Quoted from Meza

It's groundhog day when Portsmouth had loads of debt got relegated with players on 60k a week and everyone was lenient with them.

Not forgetting the particular irony that they'd previously screwed us out of a £100k payment when we were relegated from the Championship

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

Yes you can feel sorry for the fans,

I don't in the least. I doubt they were complaining whe they were cheating their way to promotion. I feel more sympathy for, say, the Mansfield fans.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I don't in the least. I doubt they were complaining whe they were cheating their way to promotion. I feel more sympathy for, say, the Mansfield fans.

I think that’s asking a lot of the average fan to understand and appreciate the economics of a football club (or any conventional business for that matter). Equally, we’re never really privy to the financial details until accounts are released some considerable time after the events.

I speak entirely hypothetically here, but if we win promotion this season and then it transpires that we spent 200% of turnover on wages, is that the fault of the fans? Supporters are generally happy when all is good on the pitch, and unhappy when it’s not.

Bury fans are no different to us in that respect, and in that sense I feel for them. Could it be us? If football continues in its general direction then it probably will be, sooner rather than later.

Be careful what you wish for.

Quoted from Poojah

I think that’s asking a lot of the average fan to understand and appreciate the economics of a football club (or any conventional business for that matter). Equally, we’re never really privy to the financial details until accounts are released some considerable time after the events.

I speak entirely hypothetically here, but if we win promotion this season and then it transpires that we spent 200% of turnover on wages, is that the fault of the fans? Supporters are generally happy when all is good on the pitch, and unhappy when it’s not.

Bury fans are no different to us in that respect, and in that sense I feel for them. Could it be us? If football continues in its general direction then it probably will be, sooner rather than later.

Be careful what you wish for.

I think you’re underestimating people. Not everyone is an ostrich like consumer. If you start signing players a cut above what you’re used to you have an inclination about something. People have access to all sorts of information these days and it only takes a few to find company accounts even if it is a year after the event. And in Bury’s case this has been going on for years.

Takeover off. Bury facing expulsion in less than an hour.

3 more potential buyers in the mix now !!

not being horrible but could these be potential time wasters to delay the verdict?

Quoted from Meza

not being horrible but could these be potential time wasters to delay the verdict?

Especially considering the group who were apparently close to a takeover took one look in detail at Bury's finances and said thanks but no thanks. Makes you wonder what these other potential buyers see in taking on a small club with massive debts...

Quoted from Meza

not being horrible but could these be potential time wasters to delay the verdict?

Bloody tyre kickers🤣👍

Bury expelled from the league!

Sad times. For Bury and for football outside the bubble of the Premier League.

We're all in this together. All of the clubs outside of the elite are 1-2 bad seasons and 1-2 bad decisions away from this fate.

It could be Grimsby in the not-too-distant past/future.....

Support your local side. Was drilled into me by my dad. We all need to realise the value of our teams and what it means and says about our tiwns and cities. I fear there will be others.

Not read any of the posts, but doesn't look good for the ground itself either as £3.7m in loans, secured on Gigg Lane. Probally be sold off by the liquidators to some property developers.

At least if it was rented off the council, a pheonix club would have perhaps been able to secure the ground to play on. Sad times.

Quoted from Poojah

Sad times. For Bury and for football outside the bubble of the Premier League.

Really? We'll ignore the fact that Bury cheated last season.

Darlington, Scarborough, Halifax, Chester and Rubbish & Dustbins have all gone out of business and been expelled from their division after dropping out of the league. No body cared. But because Bury were still in the EFL it's some sort of disaster and tragedy. It's not. They cheated. If they continued in L1 it would have set a much more dangerous precedent than them being expelled.

I can a number of other clubs being expelled in the next few years. We need to keep our house in order.

At least John does that, whatever else we think about the running of things.

Interestingly, only one team will be relegated from League 2 this season as a knock/on effect .

So that might have just saved Scunny!!

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Really? We'll ignore the fact that Bury cheated last season.

Darlington, Scarborough, Halifax, Chester and Rubbish & Dustbins have all gone out of business and been expelled from their division after dropping out of the league. No body cared. But because Bury were still in the EFL it's some sort of disaster and tragedy. It's not. They cheated. If they continued in L1 it would have set a much more dangerous precedent than them being expelled.

Spot on.

Best start looking at what players they have available, we need a new midfielder and possibly defender.
Might sound harsh to look at what players they got but its dog eat dog

Quoted from monkeyboy

Best start looking at what players they have available, we need a new midfielder and possibly defender.
Might sound harsh to look at what players they got but its dog eat dog

Too late all the good players got signed up ages ago

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Really? We'll ignore the fact that Bury cheated last season.

Darlington, Scarborough, Halifax, Chester and Rubbish & Dustbins have all gone out of business and been expelled from their division after dropping out of the league. No body cared. But because Bury were still in the EFL it's some sort of disaster and tragedy. It's not. They cheated. If they continued in L1 it would have set a much more dangerous precedent than them being expelled.

Feel for their fans, but this ⬆️

Do I feel for Bury as a club? No.
Do I feel for the fans? 100% yes.
It's a sensitive subject and by the sounds of it, it isn't going to be that easy just to create a phoenix club.

Supporters are the lifeblood of any club. They basically are the club and they are all still here so Bury will live on.

Arguably we or Fenty went the right way about keeping our house in order albeit it cost us our league status for six long seasons but hopefully our bills get paid. It would have been easy to overstretch our finances living outside our means but having an accountant on board (like him or not) has helped to keep finances in check.

Yep, I'm back (could not stay away) with exciting times ahead I hope, best forward line I have seen in a long,long time.

Hanson is the real deal and the best I have seen here for years, he wins everything in the air and is no dummy on the floor loads of awareness lay offs and flick ons.

Both Mosses and the excellent Green have more space and time such is Hansons imense presence, they are all big strong and have pace the young flyers like Akheem,Clifton and very impressive Max Wright are loving the inspiration.

Young Max Wrights reaction after he cut that ball back for Hanson to slot home as typical of the fantastic spirit in the side they all look up to Hanson even on the bench. They know he is a bit special.

Finally Mosses what a superb athelete he already as become a favorite so unpredictable you get that feeling evertime he gets the ball something is going to happen.

His celebration is worth the entrance fee alone lol.

lol I have not even mentioned the superb Hess, Waterfall, Whitlock, The viking and Pollock and co all look sound and play.

M.J. and his management team have added to the squad superbly.

We will be a handful for anyone in this division.

Trying not to get to carried away as it is so early but as a long suffering town fan you get the feelng this is different a bit special.

UTM.

Quoted from lukeo

Do I feel for Bury as a club? No.
Do I feel for the fans? 100% yes.
It's a sensitive subject and by the sounds of it, it isn't going to be that easy just to create a phoenix club.

No, it will be very easy to form a phoenix club. They might be allowed in at Step 5 given the reorganisation of non-league at the end of this season. Radcliffe Borough FC is about 2.5 miles from Gigg Lane and they currently play in the NPL Premier Divison (Step 3), so there's a ground with 4,000 capacity they could share up to at least Conference North right on their door step if Gigg Lane is a no-go in the short term.

Quoted from Nelly GTFC

Not read any of the posts, but doesn't look good for the ground itself either as £3.7m in loans, secured on Gigg Lane. Probally be sold off by the liquidators to some property developers.

At least if it was rented off the council, a pheonix club would have perhaps been able to secure the ground to play on. Sad times.

Tv this morning said their ground could only be sold if whoever bought it agreed to fund and build a new ground and I doubt that would be economically viable so I suspect the ground will still be there and hopefully can be used for the ‘new’ bury in what ever guise they resurface. Just as long as any new club is sustainable.

This is a combination of incompetence and recklessness by Steve Dale and the pure head in the sand attitude of the EFL.

Unless the EFL change what and how they do things this is likely to happen again unfortunately.

Quoted from Posh Harry

Tv this morning said their ground could only be sold if whoever bought it agreed to fund and build a new ground and I doubt that would be economically viable so I suspect the ground will still be there and hopefully can be used for the ‘new’ bury in what ever guise they resurface. Just as long as any new club is sustainable.

This is a combination of incompetence and recklessness by Steve Dale and the pure head in the sand attitude of the EFL.

Unless the EFL change what and how they do things this is likely to happen again unfortunately.

I don't get how people are blaming the EFL. They are a league competition. We don't live in a nanny state. Club's have to be responsible for their own finances. What more could the EFL have done? Steve Dale has no convictions and he's never received a ban from owning/operating a company. Proof of funds isn't worth anything, as you can't legally force an owner to inject funds even if he has them.

The EFL are legally powerless if an owner acts in the way that has happened at Bury.

What the EFL needs to do is tighten up the punishments for insolvency issues and not having proof of funds for the season. Clubs shouldn't be able to start the season in administration. 28 days before the season starts the EFL should issue 14-day expulsion notices to any club in administration and then expel them if they aren't resolved- no extensions. Clubs going into administration should be demoted and banned from promotion for 1 season.

No solvent club should suffer because of an insolvent club. Steven Pressley (Carlisle manager) had it right. It's financial doping.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I think you’re underestimating people. Not everyone is an ostrich like consumer. If you start signing players a cut above what you’re used to you have an inclination about something. People have access to all sorts of information these days and it only takes a few to find company accounts even if it is a year after the event. And in Bury’s case this has been going on for years.

This summer we've signed:
James Hanson from a league above us, as a player with a very good track record too.
Matt Green from a Salford side chucking money at it, previously at Lincoln who aren't exactly short of a bob or two at the minute.
Moses Ogbu - a player we were reported to be willing to break the bank for in January but he opted for a spell in the Middle East (no doubt where he will have had a good wage)
Luke Waterfall from a league above us, also previously at Lincoln.

Add to that the two Swedish lads signed in January, neither of whom I imagine will have uprooted for nothing.

Of course you can see that we've probably offset an awful lot of that with a combination of ditching our previous high earners (Collins, Welsh, Thomas et al) and complimenting the squad with youth graduates.  But it does make you wonder...

With regards Bury, writing on the wall for so long.  As with Bolton I feel for the fans.  Yes they may have been aware of the fact they were paying over the odds, but it doesn't mean the fans aren't hurting.  At the heart of all this is people losing their jobs too.  It's not just the players, many of whom will get fixed up with other clubs.  It's the people in the back-office, the people maintaining the ground, the people who are the real heart and soul of these clubs.  People who will now struggle to pay their mortgages or rent, to put food on the table.

Whilst all this was going on Sky Sports had a countdown ticker going until the 'deadline'.  Absolutely crass and a remarkable lack of respect for the larger issues.  Of course it's their flooding of the upper echelons of the game with wads of cash that has partly contributed to this whole situation at Bury, Bolton and many other clubs up and down the country.  If ever you were tempted to ditch you Sky subscription, that should just push you over the edge.

Quoted from diehardmariner

This summer we've signed:
James Hanson from a league above us, as a player with a very good track record too.
Matt Green from a Salford side chucking money at it, previously at Lincoln who aren't exactly short of a bob or two at the minute.
Moses Ogbu - a player we were reported to be willing to break the bank for in January but he opted for a spell in the Middle East (no doubt where he will have had a good wage)
Luke Waterfall from a league above us, also previously at Lincoln.

Add to that the two Swedish lads signed in January, neither of whom I imagine will have uprooted for nothing.

Of course you can see that we've probably offset an awful lot of that with a combination of ditching our previous high earners (Collins, Welsh, Thomas et al) and complimenting the squad with youth graduates.  But it does make you wonder...

With regards Bury, writing on the wall for so long.  As with Bolton I feel for the fans.  Yes they may have been aware of the fact they were paying over the odds, but it doesn't mean the fans aren't hurting.  At the heart of all this is people losing their jobs too.  It's not just the players, many of whom will get fixed up with other clubs.  It's the people in the back-office, the people maintaining the ground, the people who are the real heart and soul of these clubs.  People who will now struggle to pay their mortgages or rent, to put food on the table.

Whilst all this was going on Sky Sports had a countdown ticker going until the 'deadline'.  Absolutely crass and a remarkable lack of respect for the larger issues.  Of course it's their flooding of the upper echelons of the game with wads of cash that has partly contributed to this whole situation at Bury, Bolton and many other clubs up and down the country.  If ever you were tempted to ditch you Sky subscription, that should just push you over the edge.

I turned the tv on just before 5pm hoping for the best for both Clubs and the sky reporters were outside both grounds.Some idiot as usual tried crashing the interview and I was astounded to hear the sky reporter rebuke him with the words please were trying to help save your Club.I mean really ? :-/

Quoted from GollyGTFC

I don't get how people are blaming the EFL.

I think it is more that they allowed Day and then Dale to have ownership of them in the first place. Bit like the Leyton O owner before they got rid of him in the conference. Day and Dale both have "interesting" track records in business which mainly seems to involve the businesses they purchase closing. Low and behold Bury go that way as well.

I agree with you that at some point there have to be consequences for financial mismanagement. Despite all the checks from the EFL etc. there is really no stopping any owner from pulling the plug if they are forced to. Look at Notts C for example they very nearly went pop this summer as well.

The classic example for me were Rushden & Diamonds (the original FGR), a rich mans toy who simply collapsed after a few years once the money stopped. In that case the EFL would have seen him as a reasonable owner, he built them a nice stadium, even left them around a million when he left. They cannot foresee all these scenarios.

What I guess is galling for fans of Bury is that there are probably just as badly run clubs up and down the country in the EFL but sadly for them the League have shown some back bone in terms of applying their own rules (i.e proof you can actually afford to complete the season ahead), they did their best in extending deadlines but it is clear that it was not going to be resolved any time soon.

Bury thrown out of the FA Cup.

Likely to mean Notts County & Yeovil Town will receive a bye to R1 and not have to play in QR4 like the rest of the National League clubs.

Quoted from Malta_Mariner_90

I think it is more that they allowed Day and then Dale to have ownership of them in the first place. Bit like the Leyton O owner before they got rid of him in the conference. Day and Dale both have "interesting" track records in business which mainly seems to involve the businesses they purchase closing. Low and behold Bury go that way as well.

I agree with you that at some point there have to be consequences for financial mismanagement. Despite all the checks from the EFL etc. there is really no stopping any owner from pulling the plug if they are forced to. Look at Notts C for example they very nearly went pop this summer as well.

The classic example for me were Rushden & Diamonds (the original FGR), a rich mans toy who simply collapsed after a few years once the money stopped. In that case the EFL would have seen him as a reasonable owner, he built them a nice stadium, even left them around a million when he left. They cannot foresee all these scenarios.

What I guess is galling for fans of Bury is that there are probably just as badly run clubs up and down the country in the EFL but sadly for them the League have shown some back bone in terms of applying their own rules (i.e proof you can actually afford to complete the season ahead), they did their best in extending deadlines but it is clear that it was not going to be resolved any time soon.

Like I said in an earlier post, some people make a living out of buying failing businesses, stripping assets and closing them down. Nothing illegal or dodgy in that. Are these people automatically barred from buying a football club?

And re:Notts County. Alan Hardy lent the club money from one of his businesses. That business collapsed and then the administrator rightly went to Notts County to get the money back.

It is very easy to say Bury cheated. It is very easy to say we feel sorry for the fans not the owner. But those fans last year were happy to see the club promoted just as Hull fans were when Phil Brown was splashing enough to bankrupt the club and Leeds fans were when they were going bust on a Euro dream and ....

And I see people on twitter moaning that the EFL allowed Steve Dale to buy the club without the full process taking place and in the same breath saying that the EFL should have given Bury another 24 hours to allow a sale. But there's no way a new owner could go through the full process in that time. The EFL can't win.

With hindsight I think the EFL probably should have allowed Bury to collapse last season.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

It is very easy to say Bury cheated. It is very easy to say we feel sorry for the fans not the owner. But those fans last year were happy to see the club promoted just as Hull fans were when Phil Brown was splashing enough to bankrupt the club and Leeds fans were when they were going bust on a Euro dream and ....

Personally I have no issue with owners financing clubs as much as they desire, but I don't think it should be allowed to be done in the form of loans (apart from personal loans). i.e. Not from businesses that might collapse and then have administrators pursue the club for huge amounts.

I was shocked to read that Bury still owed money to 2 ex-managers. One of them Chris Brass. The amounts were material at lower-league level. £90k in one case and around 80K for the other.

There should be some checks and balances (somewhere) in place to stop this type of “ongoing debt” being carried forward. The writing was on the wall before last seasons over-spend.

Quoted from Poojah

I speak entirely hypothetically here, but if we win promotion this season and then it transpires that we spent 200% of turnover on wages, is that the fault of the fans? Supporters are generally happy when all is good on the pitch, and unhappy when it’s not.

This is interesting.

I do agree — none of us are going to complain about watching a successful side, especially if it earns promotion.

However, personally, I'd feel uncomfortable and nervous if it was made public that we were spending 200% of turnover on wages. The problem is, very few of us know exactly what we're spending at any one time.

If we spent 200% of turnover on wages, it's certainly not the fault of the fans, as Poojah says. That would be the recklessness of the board — but would we have the power to stop it? Would enough of us be bothered? I guess that's the question he's raised.

But as long as the club communicates with the fans in an honest way — and is prepared to share some financial figures — then we are at least given the chance to understand the board's position, i.e. 'We're getting a hammering from the fans because we're only mid-table but we're not prepared to throw money we haven't got at players who might not guarantee us success anyway.'

This is no lack of ambition, but I'd rather my club survive and play at this level while we build sensibly — even if it takes many years — rather than splash the cash on things we can't afford just to appease the section of fans that still thinks we should be 11th in the Championship playing glorious passing football.

I feel for Paul Wilkinson, the only manager in history to lose his job without ever losing a game ;)

Quoted from RichMariner

This is interesting.

I do agree — none of us are going to complain about watching a successful side, especially if it earns promotion.

However, personally, I'd feel uncomfortable and nervous if it was made public that we were spending 200% of turnover on wages. The problem is, very few of us know exactly what we're spending at any one time.

If we spent 200% of turnover on wages, it's certainly not the fault of the fans, as Poojah says. That would be the recklessness of the board — but would we have the power to stop it? Would enough of us be bothered? I guess that's the question he's raised.

But as long as the club communicates with the fans in an honest way — and is prepared to share some financial figures — then we are at least given the chance to understand the board's position, i.e. 'We're getting a hammering from the fans because we're only mid-table but we're not prepared to throw money we haven't got at players who might not guarantee us success anyway.'

This is no lack of ambition, but I'd rather my club survive and play at this level while we build sensibly — even if it takes many years — rather than splash the cash on things we can't afford just to appease the section of fans that still thinks we should be 11th in the Championship playing glorious passing football.

We would feel unhappy Rich but that is on the Fishy. I suspect the majority of match day attendees are only interested in the league table. They could not give a monkey's about the niceties of percentages spent on wages until the sh!t hits the fan and the club is going kaput.

Quoted from Ipswin

I feel for Paul Wilkinson, the only manager in history to lose his job without ever losing a game ;)

Sam Allardyce as England manager?

You can feel sorry for Bury fans (who are blameless) and still think it's the right decision. It's not fair on clubs like ours if other clubs are allow bills to be unpaid. Bury's owners have gambled and lost. That's life. What needs to happen is there needs to be a full and transparent and independent investigation into what went wrong with Bury to see whether rulkes could be changed to prevent this type of thing happening in the future.

Quoted from Ipswin

I feel for Paul Wilkinson, the only manager in history to lose his job without ever losing a game ;)

Think Leroy Roseinior was asked within hours of being appointed.

Very sad state of affairs. If Bolton follow next month, the precedent has been set so nice teams will be relegated from League 2.

Someone posted earlier in the week about how that allows teams (like Scunthorpe) to take a hit, play the kids and invest the money into next season's budget.

It will also have a detriment on gate receipts as many games after January will effectively be meaningless. Aside from the fact it rewards failure.

Give each league an extra promotion place or 2.

Quoted from IlkleyMariner

Think Leroy Roseinior was asked within hours of being appointed.

Bloody hell, you and Golly, this place is full of clever fornicators today!

I note Jim White, Talksport's resident drama queen, is absolutely loving the Bury situation yet again today,

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Like I said in an earlier post, some people make a living out of buying failing businesses, stripping assets and closing them down. Nothing illegal or dodgy in that. Are these people automatically barred from buying a football club?

Fair point that. Though I think that very much depends on the situation at hand. No other businesses have the emotional attachment that Football (and other sporting clubs) have which means it is within a communities interest that they are not just asset stripped and closed down.

Bury were not a failing business before Day took them over. They were failing directly as a consequence of his actions. Dale then "tried to save the club" as he put it on numerous occasions.

A Bury fan posted on OneFootballForum that there were strong suspicions that Day needed Bury shutting down due to a potential fraud case that might be brought against him, destroying the evidence so to speak or something dramatic like that.

No idea if that had credibility but if you have followed the situation since Day first took over there certainly seems to be something rather darker going on than simply spending well beyond the clubs means in an attempt for glory.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Very sad state of affairs. If Bolton follow next month, the precedent has been set so nice teams will be relegated from League 2.

Someone posted earlier in the week about how that allows teams (like Scunthorpe) to take a hit, play the kids and invest the money into next season's budget.

It will also have a detriment on gate receipts as many games after January will effectively be meaningless. Aside from the fact it rewards failure.

Give each league an extra promotion place or 2.

Not going to happen.

Quoted from Ipswin

Bloody hell, you and Golly, this place is full of clever fornicators today!

I note Jim White, Talksport's resident drama queen, is absolutely loving the Bury situation yet again today,

I really dislike him and the whole team with their BS attitudes they are the problem and cretins like me who pay to watch it :-/

Quoted from horsforthmariner

You can feel sorry for Bury fans (who are blameless) and still think it's the right decision. It's not fair on clubs like ours if other clubs are allow bills to be unpaid. Bury's owners have gambled and lost. That's life. What needs to happen is there needs to be a full and transparent and independent investigation into what went wrong with Bury to see whether rulkes could be changed to prevent this type of thing happening in the future.

That seems reasonable but unfortunately every club is different. The common factors are simply a lack of cash and failure to manage the cash they do have. That is an internal problem like Bolton's. Bury has gone but the reasons are Bury's and Bolton's and cannot be applied to other clubs with the same overheads, same fan base etc. who are still solvent. There is no single answer to be found by investigating other than to see if there was anything illegal.

This is all from a malaise of the game and it comes from the top down. The selfish PL does not care a toss about the grass roots game and pays lip service to helping it. What is that huge parachute payment all about for instance? All it does is help a small number of big Championship clubs who dropped out of the PL. Meanwhile other EFL clubs think that spending big to get into the elite is the best way to survive. Vicious circle. Then those clubs, like Bolton, find that they have mismanaged the money in some way or other or turned to the wrong backer like Blackpool and Bury did.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Then clubs find that they have turned to the wrong backer like Blackpool and Bury did.

Lets just hope that we don't join them! As far as I am concerned John Fenty can take as long as he likes to satisfy himself that whoever is buying our club is the right man / organisation

My view is clubs should not be rewarded for failure  by not being relegated when finishing in the bottom 2 or 4.

Letting more clubs gain promotion will bring more meaningful matches and more excitement to the end of the season games.

Why should the bottom 2 in our division escape relegation because 2 teams in League one  go bust ?

In the future I  hope clubs will have to prove where the money is coming from before they sign a player so this situaction does not occur again too many clubs just allow the debt to build and build until it becomes impposible to manage,Stricter rules must apply but are the EFL strong enough to  install them.?

In the past year or so, British football has lost North Ferriby, Selkirk, Thamesmead Town, Street and Bury. Losing teams is bad for the fans of the teams concerned obviously and it also devalues the league as it makes relegation harder and means season ticket holders lose games they expected to see and have paid for.

I think it will be interesting to see how the EFL deal with Bolton if they don't find a buyer. I can't see them treating Bolton like little Bury somehow.

Their deadline will continue to be extended as long as Bolton keep claiming (truthfully or otherwise) that a deal is in the offing.

The EFL are not going to kick out a club which until recently was a Premier League and Championship side with a nice (relatively) new big stadium (as opposed to little old Gigg Lane) who, with the exception of the cup tie, have so far fulfilled their fixtures (however unsuccessfully) and who are not owned by a man villified by the press and depicted as the devil himself like the Bury fella has been.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see Bolton expelled and folded but I just hope all clubs in this awful situation (and there will be more) are treated equally

Well the EFL have set the precedent now so expect Bolton are in serious risk as well. However they must be in a better position than Bury though otherwise why where they allowed to start the season and Bury not?

If they were kicked out as well and there is no relegation from L2 it will be a very odd season in our division indeed.

Will it lead to more attacking football as nobody has to fear relegation/less pressure?

Well put RichMariner

One thing is for sure, if I was a player I would be getting my agent to ensure there's a clause in my contract that states if the club I join miss even one payment of wages, I can leave as a free agent at my will if I so choose to. In fact, the EFL should make sure this is a legal requirement. The way Bury and Macclesfield, for example, have left their players almost destitute has to stop.

Quoted from Malta_Mariner_90

I think it is more that they allowed Day and then Dale to have ownership of them in the first place. Bit like the Leyton O owner before they got rid of him in the conference. Day and Dale both have "interesting" track records in business which mainly seems to involve the businesses they purchase closing. Low and behold Bury go that way as well.

I agree with you that at some point there have to be consequences for financial mismanagement. Despite all the checks from the EFL etc. there is really no stopping any owner from pulling the plug if they are forced to. Look at Notts C for example they very nearly went pop this summer as well.

The classic example for me were Rushden & Diamonds (the original FGR), a rich mans toy who simply collapsed after a few years once the money stopped. In that case the EFL would have seen him as a reasonable owner, he built them a nice stadium, even left them around a million when he left. They cannot foresee all these scenarios.

What I guess is galling for fans of Bury is that there are probably just as badly run clubs up and down the country in the EFL but sadly for them the League have shown some back bone in terms of applying their own rules (i.e proof you can actually afford to complete the season ahead), they did their best in extending deadlines but it is clear that it was not going to be resolved any time soon.

Ah, that's another bunch of fans I have no sympathy for. They used to own the club but when some flash harry offered them a spin in his sports car and introduce them to Sven, they couldn't wait to drop their knickers and sell out.

Quoted from Heisenberg

One thing is for sure, if I was a player I would be getting my agent to ensure there's a clause in my contract that states if the club I join miss even one payment of wages, I can leave as a free agent at my will if I so choose to. In fact, the EFL should make sure this is a legal requirement. The way Bury and Macclesfield, for example, have left their players almost destitute has to stop.

If a team fails to pay its staff on time then all points gained during that pay period should be docked and given to the team who lost them. The further down the pyramid you go, the more impact it has on people's lives.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Ah, that's another bunch of fans I have no sympathy for. They used to own the club but when some flash harry offered them a spin in his sports car and introduce them to Sven, they couldn't wait to drop their knickers and sell out.

Did anyone ever get to the bottom of what was really going on there at the time? I mean if the greatest mind in football Sol Campbell was fooled by the then owners then we must be talking some pretty high level confidence tricksters. Looking back the EFL has let pretty much anybody own a Football Club! ;D

The below is well worth a watch and just shows these kind of things have been going on for years!

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi4hNLvZVPM[/url]

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Ah, that's another bunch of fans I have no sympathy for. They used to own the club but when some flash harry offered them a spin in his sports car and introduce them to Sven, they couldn't wait to drop their knickers and sell out.

Not wanting to play devils advocate to you once again KM, but it wasn't so many years ago that the fans of this club held a decent share stake (thanks to Mike Parker) but under the threat of the sale of the star striker, dropped their proverbial knickers and gave up the stake.

I know it's different circumstances but both are a case of heart ruling the head?

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Ah, that's another bunch of fans I have no sympathy for. They used to own the club but when some flash harry offered them a spin in his sports car and introduce them to Sven, they couldn't wait to drop their knickers and sell out.

We have had calls on the Fishy a few times for some sort of fan based buy out scheme and people have pointed to clubs doing it. How many still do it or have done a County? We saw Swansea also touted as the example of how to get a new ground and whizz through the leagues but they too ended up having to live within smaller means.Most such ventures end up with a leader who does not quite have enough cash to do it alone.

Watch the situation in the Scottish non league game now that there is a way of getting into the SFL via the Lowland League.

Kelty Hearts, who sit second, have Barry Ferguson the ex Rangers captain and Scotland international with 45 caps as the manager, reputedly on £50k per annum. They have been buying up SFL players in an attempt to reach the SFL, and it can be done relatively cheaply compared to England.

We have a club in the league below us, who have won diddly squat in their long history, who are now paying three or four ex SFL players £500 per week. It's wholly unsustainable, but whilst it gives folk the opportunity to get some really cheap publicity at a relatively low cost, from which their business interests may benefit from it will only get worse.

I've seen two of our local rivals, Irvine Meadow and Kilwinning Rangers, both nearly go out of business in the last 20 years when they also bought success before going belly up. Difficult times all over the game. I wonder when a bank might tell a Premiership club, am sorry we want our money back? The sooner the better.

Quoted from jock dock tower

Watch the situation in the Scottish non league game now that there is a way of getting into the SFL via the Lowland League.

Kelty Hearts, who sit second, have Barry Ferguson the ex Rangers captain and Scotland international with 45 caps as the manager, reputedly on £50k per annum. They have been buying up SFL players in an attempt to reach the SFL, and it can be done relatively cheaply compared to England.

We have a club in the league below us, who have won diddly squat in their long history, who are now paying three or four ex SFL players £500 per week. It's wholly unsustainable, but whilst it gives folk the opportunity to get some really cheap publicity at a relatively low cost, from which their business interests may benefit from it will only get worse.

I've seen two of our local rivals, Irvine Meadow and Kilwinning Rangers, both nearly go out of business in the last 20 years when they also bought success before going belly up. Difficult times all over the game. I wonder when a bank might tell a Premiership club, am sorry we want our money back? The sooner the better.

I remember when Boston United used to sign ex-Town players, before they got into the league. In those days though there was no promotion to Div 4 so they never had a chance to progress and it was just for the satisfaction of smashing every other non-league team out of sight plus some good cup runs.

When Boston did it again but for real promotion in 2003 the with the great Evans and Malkinson duo that got prosecuted for brown envelopes, it very nearly wrecked the club in the end. So I agree Jock, it is short term gain for long term pain.

Quoted from diehardmariner

This summer we've signed:
James Hanson from a league above us, as a player with a very good track record too.
Matt Green from a Salford side chucking money at it, previously at Lincoln who aren't exactly short of a bob or two at the minute.
Moses Ogbu - a player we were reported to be willing to break the bank for in January but he opted for a spell in the Middle East (no doubt where he will have had a good wage)
Luke Waterfall from a league above us, also previously at Lincoln.

Add to that the two Swedish lads signed in January, neither of whom I imagine will have uprooted for nothing.

Of course you can see that we've probably offset an awful lot of that with a combination of ditching our previous high earners (Collins, Welsh, Thomas et al) and complimenting the squad with youth graduates.  But it does make you wonder...

With regards Bury, writing on the wall for so long.  As with Bolton I feel for the fans.  Yes they may have been aware of the fact they were paying over the odds, but it doesn't mean the fans aren't hurting.  At the heart of all this is people losing their jobs too.  It's not just the players, many of whom will get fixed up with other clubs.  It's the people in the back-office, the people maintaining the ground, the people who are the real heart and soul of these clubs.  People who will now struggle to pay their mortgages or rent, to put food on the table.

Whilst all this was going on Sky Sports had a countdown ticker going until the 'deadline'.  Absolutely crass and a remarkable lack of respect for the larger issues.  Of course it's their flooding of the upper echelons of the game with wads of cash that has partly contributed to this whole situation at Bury, Bolton and many other clubs up and down the country.  If ever you were tempted to ditch you Sky subscription, that should just push you over the edge.

As regards our signings that you mentioned then I assume they will all have been accommodated within our playing budget and this is the crux of the whole situation. At least we appear to have a sensible playing budget and stick to it. It might not please some fans but we do seem to live within our means.

Quoted from rancido

As regards our signings that you mentioned then I assume they will all have been accommodated within our playing budget and this is the crux of the whole situation. At least we appear to have a sensible playing budget and stick to it. It might not please some fans but we do seem to live within our means.

I like this squad. We have some good qualities and it’s a small group of players, many of who are comfortable playing in multiple positions. We have to give the Cowley’s some credit here, they’ve shown the way, Jolley has taken note, and going back to having 30+ players in your squad like we had when Slade replaced Bignot can never happen again.

I see the lady that runs the EFL now thinks it's time to look at their criteria for when new owners apply to buy a club. Good to know that they are so proactive.

Just seen her on tv-doesn't seem to know her aars from her elbow

Bury were the first team we beat after that horrendous run, and there where 350 of us there to see Town win.

Seeing their fans pleading for help is tough to watch as you can see how much it means to them, I just hope they do get someone who can take them forward, best of luck Bury.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Not wanting to play devils advocate to you once again KM, but it wasn't so many years ago that the fans of this club held a decent share stake (thanks to Mike Parker) but under the threat of the sale of the star striker, dropped their proverbial knickers and gave up the stake.

I know it's different circumstances but both are a case of heart ruling the head?

I agree, it was a major fcuk up in our case too. And a severe case of the heart ruling the head*.

Never should have happened and I don't mind reminding people. 'I told you so.' Our case was probably only different in scale and degree. Different in degree because our Trust kept a significant stake. Different in scale because the prizes on offer were a lot, lot lower. Actually, to be fair to Fenty, he is a genuine fan too, unlike, Munto Finance (was it?) in County's case.

We should remember these cases as warnings

* I like to think on that occasion my heart and head were telling me the same thing. A natural aversion to emotional blackmail, and a cold consideration of the possible outcomes of the decision.

Quoted from Malta_Mariner_90

Did anyone ever get to the bottom of what was really going on there at the time? I mean if the greatest mind in football Sol Campbell was fooled by the then owners then we must be talking some pretty high level confidence tricksters. Looking back the EFL has let pretty much anybody own a Football Club! ;D

The below is well worth a watch and just shows these kind of things have been going on for years!

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi4hNLvZVPM[/url]

I hope as he peruses our board that John Fenty has seen and watches this

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I agree, it was a major fcuk up in our case too. And a severe case of the heart ruling the head*.

Never should have happened and I don't mind reminding people. 'I told you so.' Our case was probably only different in scale and degree. Different in degree because our Trust kept a significant stake. Different in scale because the prizes on offer were a lot, lot lower. Actually, to be fair to Fenty, he is a genuine fan too, unlike, Munto Finance (was it?) in County's case.

We should remember these cases as warnings

* I like to think on that occasion my heart and head were telling me the same thing. A natural aversion to emotional blackmail, and a cold consideration of the possible outcomes of the decision.

Aye, there but for the grade of God...

Hastily arranged EFL meeting taking place with bury sale on the agenda. Surely not...

Quoted from psgmariner

Hastily arranged EFL meeting taking place with bury sale on the agenda. Surely not...

Why does nobody in society seem to respect a deadline nowadays? They're out of the League, end of story as far as I'm concerned, and that should be their stance. If they survive as a club/business and are not liquidated, then great, good for them, but they then have to get their house in order over the next few months and apply to go into non-league for the start of next season, and I mean below Conference North level. If they're accepted, then hey presto, but they're no longer a league club anymore and should accept it.

The EFL shouldn't have anything to discuss with regards to Bury, Bury need to sort themselves out as a non-league club.

Quoted from Heisenberg

Why does nobody in society seem to respect a deadline nowadays? They're out of the League, end of story as far as I'm concerned, and that should be their stance. If they survive as a club/business and are not liquidated, then great, good for them, but they then have to get their house in order over the next few months and apply to go into non-league for the start of next season, and I mean below Conference North level. If they're accepted, then hey presto, but they're no longer a league club anymore and should accept it.

The EFL shouldn't have anything to discuss with regards to Bury, Bury need to sort themselves out as a non-league club.

A position you will maintain when sorry if, it happens to us?

Reprieve rejected by EFL

Quoted from Ipswin

A position you will maintain when sorry if, it happens to us?

Sort of. I know what you mean, you're assuming I (and many on here) would become hypocrites, and you may indeed by right, but my God, they've had months to sort this out, in full view of the public eye, and they all of a sudden attract interested bidders an hour before they're chucked out, even another bidder after the deadline! It's too late. They were given ages.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be beyond devastated to be in the same situation as the Bury fans, but their situation seems like that of many clubs, yet snowballed multiple times over. With hindsight, Bury was a complete basket case of a club!

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I think you’re underestimating people. Not everyone is an ostrich like consumer. If you start signing players a cut above what you’re used to you have an inclination about something. People have access to all sorts of information these days and it only takes a few to find company accounts even if it is a year after the event. And in Bury’s case this has been going on for years.

I'm sure back in 2000/2001 town fans didn't think something was wrong when we signed expensive players on large wages on an average gate of 5,646 .

Quoted from rancido

I'm sure back in 2000/2001 town fans didn't think something was wrong when we signed expensive players on large wages on an average gate of 5,646 .

It was all good back then, we used to get a fortune from ITV Digital.

Quoted from rancido

I'm sure back in 2000/2001 town fans didn't think something was wrong when we signed expensive players on large wages on an average gate of 5,646 .

Probably right. But if anyone has failed to learn the lessons of that 18 years on I have no sympathy.

There is a very interesting article in the Daily Mail today, by sports writer Martin Samuel, about the demise of Bury and the state of clubs in the lower Football League. It's well worth reading.

Including the comment that Bury had 9 strikers on the books at one time. Somebody pointed out that Man United won the treble in 1999 with only 4 strikers.

Bury considering legal action.
Also want "information" on how Steve Dale passed the 'fit and proper person' test.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/30/bury-expulsion-football-league

Perhaps the fat lady hasn't sung...?

I can see this ruling being overturned because they had potential buyers that the EFL could have entertainment.

Quoted from TownSNAFU5

Including the comment that Bury had 9 strikers on the books at one time. Somebody pointed out that Man United won the treble in 1999 with only 4 strikers.

I think we had 9 or even more strikers on our books at one time under Newell,

All naf.

They made for a good night out though...

So what does this mean for Leagues one and two now?
Only three to come down from League one and only one from the second? But an extra team to go up from League two!?

Quoted from 139881

So what does this mean for Leagues one and two now?
Only three to come down from League one and only one from the second? But an extra team to go up from League two!?

My guess is 3 down from League 1, 4 up from League 2, 1 down from League 2 and 2 up from the Nat League.

So the only change is one less down from Leagues 1 and 2.

BREAKING NEWS.....The EFL says it has agreed to "Discuss The Matter" of Bury Football Clubs re-entry into the Football League.

Interesting development PP.

See more:

[url]https://www.efl.com/news/2019/september/efl-statement-bury-fc/[/url]

Best part for me is this:

The Board recognises the efforts being made by supporters’ groups, local authorities and political leaders and their desire for Bury FC to re-enter the EFL from the 2020-21 season. However, the only established procedure for entry to the EFL is through promotion from the National League as part of the wider football pyramid. There is no precedent for a Club to enter the EFL directly through an application for admission or readmission following withdrawal of membership.

Cough...MK Dons...Cough...Cough

It is strange that the EFL want to consult with the 72 clubs about what happens to Bury next season.  The EFL have already made their executive decision to cast Bury into NL oblivion.  Why then re-open the case after the punishment has been determined?

Bury cheated promotion to Div 1.  If they are re-instated into Div 2 next season, then they back where they were last season.

If Bury are in Div 2 next season then they have not suffered any real punishment for their crimes.  (Promotion to Div 1 was not on merit).

The EFL are making a rod for their own back in the future in dealing with other clubs who flagrantly break the rules.