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Quoted from Rick12

I love VAR though and think it makes the game far fairer.Think of the decisions throughout football that were wrong ones and changed the course of things.Hence Frank Lampards goal that should of stood against Germany in the 2010 world cup or Spain's goal in the quarter final of the 2002 world cup against South Korea which should of stood .

Why should they "of" stood? VAR did not exist, the officials did what they could with instant decision making. Football is a human activity not a computer game. I turned the bloody thing off last night, sick of seeing and hearing about VAR. It will kill the game as we know it.

I've just watched the West Ham vs Man City game highlights. Crazy when goals are being ruled out literally on a toe being in front of the defender. Hardly clear and obvious but Pandora's box is open now. At least think the offside rule needs reviewing. Back to daylight between defender and attacker to be offside?

Anyone who thinks VAR (not goalline technology) is a good idea in its current format might as well fook off & play tiddlywinks and let the rest of us get on with enjoying some common sense.

The offside rule is designed to stop players getting an unfair advantage - can anyone tell us what advantage players are gaining from having a part of their shoulder millimetres in front of the defender’s shoulder when moving in opposite directions?

The millions of pounds paid to pundits and not one of them has offered any insight beyond “well there’s a lot at stake nowadays”...yeah, like what? Prem teams are handed hundreds of millions of pounds a year and don’t even pay their staff a living wage, so what’s really at stake is an extra ten, fifty, hundred grand for some whopper to be sat on the bench.

The Premier League has absolutely killed football at that level with their insatiable greed, it’s disgusting. The problem is the sycophants & enablers they allow it to happen.

VAR should be used to highlight cheating and when players try and con the ref, ie diving to get penalties or off the ball incidents.

I agree with Ska but we're copulated. Now it's in it won't be going anywhere.

I'm all for VAR, obviously there going to be teething problems at first. It's the actual rule for offside that is wrong, VAR just following the (terrible) letter of the law in that instance.

I have admit goal line technology is obviously a good thing.

Football is the best sport in the world because it's so quick and emotive at times. You can go from despair to jubilation in an instant. Goals are rare which is why they're celebrated more wildly than a wicket or a try or a winning shot in tennis. Now you have to temper your reaction to a goal for a minute or two whilst they check to make sure the striker's foreskin wasn't in an offside position. It ruins the atmosphere by taking away the spontaneity which is one of the best bits of football.

I may be in the minority here but I love the human error side of the game. Town have been on the receiving end of horrendous decisions but they've also been the beneficiary of them as well. That's life. But it gives you talking points and helps the atmosphere at the game. Who didn't enjoy the increase in volume yesterday Ogbu's goal was ruled, admittedly correctly, offside? Football is a game played by humans for the entertainment of humans and it was absolutely fine for the 150 year it was played without VAR. VAR is shite.

You are offside or you aren't....VAR gives assistance in determining that black and white decision..." if a part of the body you can score a goal with is beyond etc" ....VAR gives you virtually a 100% chance of accurately showing that.
Daylight "rule" as far as I am aware has never existed in the actual rules/laws so why people keep spouting that I don't know.
Other use of VAR can still be subjective so that causes confusion to me.

It's part of the game now so people who watch those games should take time to read the actual rules/guidelines and understand so they know what is happening and why ...might save on confusion.

Take that "backpass" yesterday when the Bradford defender played the ball back to the keeper with his knee....a good section of the crowd were screaming at the ref, the lino, the keeper for cheating !!

Also the new goal kick encroachment...the drop ball changes....if the ref interferes with the ball....have we all read up on those changes for this season ?

“You’re either offside or not” - a truly mindbending revelation, great analysis and absolutely worth ruining the sport for.

I wouldn’t really care if we conceded a goal where the attacker was offside by a millimetre, maybe it’s because I’m a grown up. If we’re applying that level of scrutiny to decisions then why not throw-ins or incidents further back in play?

Football isn’t cricket or tennis, it’s a fluid game that could conceivably be played for 45 minutes without a single stoppage - unlike other sports that are a series of set plays.

The cranks, bores and moneymen have won.

Quoted from mariner91

Football is the best sport in the world because it's so quick and emotive at times. You can go from despair to jubilation in an instant. Goals are rare which is why they're celebrated more wildly than a wicket or a try or a winning shot in tennis. Now you have to temper your reaction to a goal for a minute or two whilst they check to make sure the striker's foreskin wasn't in an offside position. It ruins the atmosphere by taking away the spontaneity which is one of the best bits of football.

I may be in the minority here but I love the human error side of the game. Town have been on the receiving end of horrendous decisions but they've also been the beneficiary of them as well. That's life. But it gives you talking points and helps the atmosphere at the game. Who didn't enjoy the increase in volume yesterday Ogbu's goal was ruled, admittedly correctly, offside? Football is a game played by humans for the entertainment of humans and it was absolutely fine for the 150 year it was played without VAR. VAR is shite.

Spot on. VAR is for kids’ PlayStation games.

But it is NEW so it must be GOOD. :(

The PL will not be the same. The game at that level will become a franchised family popcorn event with play sporadically interfering with the online betting. Money talks.

It is not VAR that's the problem its the offside rule,

They did bring the clear daylight rule in for a period Moosey but went back to the old rule,

Offside is there to stop an attacker getting on unfair advantage but having a toe or elbow offside is not really an advantage is it ?

I watched the game live and the West Ham fans cheered when one of the goals was decided by VAR to be offside in fact that was the biggest cheer of the day.

The most important thing to me was all the pulling/pushing shirt holding in the penalty area that went unpunished so if VAR stops that and it seems to have at the moment it can only be a good thing.

Things will change for the better and decisions will be made quicker they just have to decide what is worth holding play up for and what isn't.

Quoted from moosey_club

You are offside or you aren't....VAR gives assistance in determining that black and white decision..." if a part of the body you can score a goal with is beyond etc" ....VAR gives you virtually a 100% chance of accurately showing that.
Daylight "rule" as far as I am aware has never existed in the actual rules/laws so why people keep spouting that I don't know.
Other use of VAR can still be subjective so that causes confusion to me.

It's part of the game now so people who watch those games should take time to read the actual rules/guidelines and understand so they know what is happening and why ...might save on confusion.

Take that "backpass" yesterday when the Bradford defender played the ball back to the keeper with his knee....a good section of the crowd were screaming at the ref, the lino, the keeper for cheating !!

Also the new goal kick encroachment...the drop ball changes....if the ref interferes with the ball....have we all read up on those changes for this season ?

A few years ago linesmen were instructed not to flag for offside if there was 'daylight' between the attacker and defender.

It is ridiculous to say that someone's shoulder is offside. It would be better if the rule was a player is onside if any part of his body is in line with the last defender.

Quoted from grimsby pete

It is not VAR that's the problem its the offside rule,

They did bring the clear daylight rule in for a period Moosey but went back to the old rule,

[b]Offside is there to stop an attacker getting on unfair advantage but having a toe or elbow offside is not really an advantage is it ?[b]

Things will change for the better and decisions will be made quicker they just have to decide what is worth holding play up for and what isn't.

If that toe scores then clearly it is. 😀

Quoted from White_shorts

It is ridiculous to say that someone's shoulder is offside. It would be better if the rule was a player is onside if any part of his body is in line with the last defender.

So if a toe on his back foot was the only part of his body in line with the defender he has effectively gained a yards advantage but would still be onside under that rule?

Of course we could do away with it all if we all played like gentlemen and put our hands up to any fouls we committed, when the ball crossed the line and we didn't fake any contact.

Quoted from moosey_club

So if a toe on his back foot was the only part of his body in line with the defender he has effectively gained a yards advantage but would still be onside under that rule?

“Well if you’re onside, you’re onside”

Can you not see how ridiculous your own argument is now?

Absolute shite, slow clap for everyone involved in reaching this point -

[img]https://i.postimg.cc/h439sHtQ/1-B92-F5-B5-6-D84-445-D-A013-4-DF1-AE90-B311.jpg[/img]

Clearly gaining an unfair advantage with his shoulder creep. Thank god this sort of terrible decision is now a thing of the past.

Quoted from ska face

“Well if you’re onside, you’re onside”

Can you not see how ridiculous your own argument is now?

No , it reinforces my point about playing to the current ruling...its black and white...you are off if any part of your body is in an advance of the last man.....that way there can be absolutely no advantage/ disadvantage which should therefore be fair for all. Any other interpretation gives an advantage to one side or the other.
The offside rule in itself isnt broken , VAR is just giving a heightened definition which the human eye would not be able to pick up in many instances. If the TV camera's and media hadnt been highlighting every "human error" made by an official during the Sky era then VAR wouldnt exist, we would just accept its swings and roundabouts.
Dont get me wrong, i dislike VAR and am glad it doesnt really apply to us as yet , FA Cup aside, but like goaline technology it can be useful to reach correct decisions.

I might have missed something but how in anyone’s name was that ‘a clear and obvious error ‘?

VAR simply makes sure the decision is correct as the current ruling stands. To repeat once again its the rule that needs looking at with a bit of leniency given to attackers preferable in future. Whether that's clear daylight or all the leading foot in front of the defenders or whatever.

With the possible huge ramifications and many many millions potentially won or lost or going down in the halls of fame or not over, it is essential the right decision is made.

That is in my opinion, I fully understand the thoughts of those against it all though. In a way, I agree, I just feel the need to make the right decision outweighs the counter argument.

It will streamline itself in time.

Quoted from Rik e B

VAR simply makes sure the decision is correct as the current ruling stands. To repeat once again its the rule that needs looking at with a bit of leniency given to attackers preferable in future. Whether that's clear daylight or all the leading foot in front of the defenders or whatever.

With the possible huge ramifications and many many millions potentially won or lost or going down in the halls of fame or not over, it is essential the right decision is made.

That is in my opinion, I fully understand the thoughts of those against it all though. In a way, I agree, I just feel the need to make the right decision outweighs the counter argument.

It will streamline itself in time.

Exactly.

Being more of a defender by trade i dont see why everyone is keen to give the striker the advantages though...old slow defenders like me need all the help we can get ;D

Quoted from 213[b

]Anyone who thinks VAR (not goalline technology) is a good idea in its current format might as well fook off & play tiddlywinks and let the rest of us get on with enjoying some common sense.
[/b]
The offside rule is designed to stop players getting an unfair advantage - can anyone tell us what advantage players are gaining from having a part of their shoulder millimetres in front of the defender’s shoulder when moving in opposite directions?

The millions of pounds paid to pundits and not one of them has offered any insight beyond “well there’s a lot at stake nowadays”...yeah, like what? Prem teams are handed hundreds of millions of pounds a year and don’t even pay their staff a living wage, so what’s really at stake is an extra ten, fifty, hundred grand for some whopper to be sat on the bench.

The Premier League has absolutely killed football at that level with their insatiable greed, it’s disgusting. The problem is the sycophants & enablers they allow it to happen.

But surely they are part and parcel of the same thing - using a camera and technology to determine an outcome. If a ball is 1cm over the goal line then a goal is given , so why shouldn't the same criteria apply if a player is 1cm off-side? You can't mix and match the technology that suits and that that doesn't.

People are concentrating on all the bad things that happened (not cos of the tech but the rule makers) but there was some good things about VAR i.e West Ham players in the penalty area when the kick was taken

I suppose Moosey if the attackers were given advantage then behemoths like Man City who more often than not on the front foot would devour all in their path just the more.

So I dunno where the happy medium is on offside exactly, I just know it's important to get the ruling as per the current laws of the game right.

Quoted from rancido

But surely they are part and parcel of the same thing - using a camera and technology to determine an outcome. If a ball is 1cm over the goal line then a goal is given , so why shouldn't the same criteria apply if a player is 1cm off-side? You can't mix and match the technology that suits and that that doesn't.

Try reading the post again ffs, specifically the bit about offside being used to stop players gaining an unfair advantage.

If the ball’s in, its in. If an attack’s shoulder is offside by 1mm, what advantage is being gained?

Quoted from rancido

But surely they are part and parcel of the same thing - using a camera and technology to determine an outcome. If a ball is 1cm over the goal line then a goal is given , so why shouldn't the same criteria apply if a player is 1cm off-side? You can't mix and match the technology that suits and that that doesn't.

You can and you should. Taking away the ridiculousness of someone being 1cm offside giving them an "advantage", the goal line technology is instant and doesn't affect the flow of the game. VAR does and it makes the game worse for it.

Quoted from robborhino

People are concentrating on all the bad things that happened (not cos of the tech but the rule makers) but there was some good things about VAR i.e West Ham players in the penalty area when the kick was taken

If a referee can’t spot a defender encroaching by about 3 yards, he probably shouldn’t be working in the prem.

Do you really need a video replay for that?

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Why should they "of" stood? VAR did not exist, the officials did what they could with instant decision making. Football is a human activity not a computer game. I turned the bloody thing off last night, sick of seeing and hearing about VAR. It will kill the game as we know it.

If fixes a wrong to a right.Look at tennis for one and how much technology has changed the sport there.Its fine margins that can possibly cost a country winning a world cup or not .

Quoted from ska face

Anyone who thinks VAR (not goalline technology) is a good idea in its current format might as well fook off & play tiddlywinks and let the rest of us get on with enjoying some common sense.

But the majority of football fans do want to see VAR implemented ?

https://www.90min.com/posts/5971397-revealed-football-fans-offer-their-opinions-on-var-use-how-it-can-be-improved

Quoted from Rick12

If fixes a wrong to a right.Look at tennis for one and how much technology has changed the sport there.Its fine margins that can possibly cost a country winning a world cup or not .

But the majority of football fans do want to see VAR implemented ?

https://www.90min.com/posts/5971397-revealed-football-fans-offer-their-opinions-on-var-use-how-it-can-be-improved

That's a study of 2,000 fans and only in the top flight. So 100 fans from each side which represents 0.04% of the people in the average PL stadium, let alone the wider game. It's really not conclusive evidence at all.

Quoted from mariner91

That's a study of 2,000 fans and only in the top flight. So 100 fans from each side which represents 0.04% of the people in the average PL stadium, let alone the wider game. It's really not conclusive evidence at all.

Yes but overall I still wage that most fans would want it implemented.I think Fifa have done extensive research on players and clubs alike on whether they want it implemented and most said they would.For me its a huge blessing to the game.Think of yourself as a player playing for England and a goal is wrongly disallowed in the semi finals of the world cup at 0-0 in the 92nd minute.Your dreams will be wrongly shattered.

Look back at the 2018 world cup when VAR was first implemented. Yes there were teething problems but once fans get used to it most I think will like and embrace it.Its like anything some people will be against change but once used for the greater good most will come to accept it.

[quote=213]

Try reading the post again ffs, specifically the bit about offside being used to stop players gaining an unfair advantage.

If the ball’s in, its in. If an attack’s shoulder is offside by 1mm, what advantage is being gained?[/quote

And I was pointing out why camera technology is ok for goal line decisions and not offside FFS with nobs on!

Quoted from Rick12

Yes but overall I still wage that most fans would want it implemented.I think Fifa have done extensive research on players and clubs alike on whether they want it implemented and most said they would.For me its a huge blessing to the game.Think of yourself as a player playing for England and a goal is wrongly disallowed in the semi finals of the world cup at 0-0 in the 92nd minute.Your dreams will be wrongly shattered.

Look back at the 2018 world cup when VAR was first implemented. Yes there were teething problems but once fans get used to it most I think will like and embrace it.Its like anything some people will be against change but once used for the greater good most will come to accept it.

Who's decided it's for the greater good? Football is entertainment. I watch football to be entertained. VAR massively reduces some of the best aspects of football because technology is being used purely it seems because it can be used. VAR in the women's world cup was a farce with multiple examples of VAR not really helping at all, a lot of decisions in football are still subjective so VAR is pretty useless unless it is actually obvious like a blatant handball. It's not like cricket where if the ball is hitting the stumps, it's hitting the stumps or tennis where the ball is either in or it's out. So the flow of the game is ruined, with two to three minutes spent looking at a screen by the officials whilst the atmosphere dies and the fans in the stadium haven't got a clue what's going on and even then the decision may still be contentious.

It was rolled out supposedly to overturn decisions when a "clear and obvious" mistake had been made but is being used for the smallest transgression like Sterling's offside shoulder yesterday. Goal-line technology works because it is a clear yes or no, did the ball cross the line or did it not. And it's instant, the second the ball goes over the line the referee is informed and a goal is given. There can be no argument about the decision being correct and the entertainment from the game is unaffected. That is not the case for VAR in the way it is being used now and unless they change it football will be less enjoyable with it's inclusion.

Quoted from mariner91

Who's decided it's for the greater good? Football is entertainment. I watch football to be entertained. VAR massively reduces some of the best aspects of football because technology is being used purely it seems because it can be used. .

But them penalty decisions where the VAR was used yesterday in the Man City game could of been pivotal if the score was only 0-0 with 10 minutes to go.

For me though sport and football go beyond entertainment but mirror life in general.Hence trying to better yourself both emotionally and physically and also helping society in general.Hence football serves a social need as well eg brings community and gives life and happiness to so many people .As Bill Shankly once said "Some people believe football is a matter of life and death. I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that."

Quoted from Rick12

.

But the majority of football fans do want to see VAR implemented ?

https://www.90min.com/posts/5971397-revealed-football-fans-offer-their-opinions-on-var-use-how-it-can-be-improved

80% of 2000 premier league fans (that’s 1600 people...) in a survey where we haven’t seen the questions, conducted on behalf of a betting company.

I am somewhat unconvinced...

Quoted from ska face

80% of 2000 premier league fans (that’s 1600 people...) in a survey where we haven’t seen the questions, conducted on behalf of a betting company.

I am somewhat unconvinced...

Yes perhaps that was a wrong study to use but to me still represents a snapshot of the game.I still feel a consensus of football fans around the world eg over 50% would still want to see VAR implemented?

Quoted from Rick12

Yes but overall I still wage that most fans would want it implemented.I think Fifa have done extensive research on players and clubs alike on whether they want it implemented and most said they would.For me its a huge blessing to the game.Think of yourself as a player playing for England and a goal is wrongly disallowed in the semi finals of the world cup at 0-0 in the 92nd minute.Your dreams will be wrongly shattered.

Look back at the 2018 world cup when VAR was first implemented. Yes there were teething problems but once fans get used to it most I think will like and embrace it.Its like anything some people will be against change but once used for the greater good most will come to accept it.

I would place VAR in the same bin as the technology used to in-tune voices and instruments at festivals. Yes it makes someone like McCartney sound perfect in voice and backing but it sounds nothing like the real thing with all its duff notes and forgotten lyrics. If they could have made Woodstock aurally perfect would it be better?

VAR is crap, that is my considered opinion. It ruins a human activity by interpolating a technology in-between the human interactions. It will work, no doubt about it. There will be slavish devotees of technology who will praise it. More importantly there will be money people who want it and want the changes to the game it will help to bring and they are the ones putting FIFA under enormous pressure to bring in these gadgets and gimmicks. But proper football at top flight is now a dead duck as far as I am concerned, I'm not interested in a stop-start. betting fest. The Championship is their next target if they think there's enough money to be made from it.

Quoted from Rick12

But them penalty decisions where the VAR was used yesterday in the Man City game could of been pivotal if the score was only 0-0 with 10 minutes to go.

For me though sport and football go beyond entertainment but mirror life in general.Hence trying to better yourself both emotionally and physically and also helping society in general.Hence football serves a social need as well eg brings community and gives life and happiness to so many people .As Bill Shankly once said "Some people believe football is a matter of life and death. I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that."

Football is entertainment. If people weren't entertained watching it, then they wouldn't watch it. VAR makes the game less entertaining.

Quoted from Rick12

Yes perhaps that was a wrong study to use but to me still represents a snapshot of the game.I still feel a consensus of football fans around the world eg over 50% would still want to see VAR implemented?

[youtube]nP6wGZyQZN4[/youtube]

Very popular at this England game.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

I would place VAR in the same bin as the technology used to in-tune voices and instruments at festivals. Yes it makes someone like McCartney sound perfect in voice and backing but it sounds nothing like the real thing with all its duff notes and forgotten lyrics. If they could have made Woodstock aurally perfect would it be better?

Each to their own Ron

I was all in favour of introducing VAR to eliminate gross errors such as the Lampard 'goal' v Germany, or the Henri handball v Eire.

But the way it has been implemented regarding offside is very poor. The rule is that you are onside if level with the defender. However, goals are now being ruled out when a slither of toe or shoulder is a milimeter beyond the defender when the main bulk of the attackers body is actually level.

I think VAR should be used in the same way as in other sports such as cricket and Tennis. Each team can have a maximum of, say, two appeals during a game. That way obvious errors can be spotted without every single incident being painstakingly scrutinised. I would view that as a good compromise.

If the current approach persist then players will have to adapt by remaining well behind the defender, thus effectively giving the defence a head start when timing runs. I can't see that being good for the game and it will probably lead to fewer goal scoring opportunities.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

I would place VAR in the same bin as the technology used to in-tune voices and instruments at festivals. Yes it makes someone like McCartney sound perfect in voice and backing but it sounds nothing like the real thing with all its duff notes and forgotten lyrics. If they could have made Woodstock aurally perfect would it be better?

You don't think Paul McCartney can sing!!

Blimey. Heard it all now. :)

Goal line technology - yes but should be available for all games in a competition (PL or CL) or none at all (not selected games like only at PL stadia in the FA Cup as we fell foul of at Palace).

VAR in-game. Not for me.

Retrospective yellow cards (and rescinding of) for tallies for diving and conning refs would be more welcome than spooling back to see if someones half foot was in the box before a penalty was struck.

The cheating side should be looked at, does VAR check if the player had dived for penalties, also when a player gets caught on his chest but goes down holding his face as if he'd been shot, is VAR checking this?

Not a fan of VAR, it's in the prem so there we are. How will 3rd and 4th tier clubs afford the technology....? Just had a thought, let the prem pay!!!
For me it will ruin football well it already has. I think the time keeping should be done by the 4th official as in American NFL. I also think the offside rule should be changed so there has to be daylight between the last man and forward, that will stop the ' his toe is off side'.

VAR is male masturbation

Quoted from ska face

If a referee can’t spot a defender encroaching by about 3 yards, he probably shouldn’t be working in the prem.

Do you really need a video replay for that?

I would probably say he can Ska but maybe told to leave it to VAR.

The other thing that has crept into the game that my dad hates is obstruction when the ball is going out of play and the defender has no intention of playing the ball. I told my dad he's shielding the ball.....he replied bollo(ks lol

Do we really care what goes on in the top flight? It could be a few years yet before it has the slightest effect on us other than in the cup competitions (even that shouldnt happen, every game has it or no games should have it within the same competition). Hell we might even be in a new stadium before VAR gets to our division.

VAR was intended as goal line technology-if we keep on like this we wont need the ref on the pitch. Some clever shite sits there all day thinking what he can come up with next to fk the game up. Saturday was absolutely ridiculous.

In cricket they have ‘umpire’s call’ which means on the marginal decisions the final one sticks with what the umpire said at the time.

So yesterday, the linesman allowed the goal to stand. When VAR reviewed it and found the advantage was 1mm, then unless there’s a CLEAR & OBVIOUS error the decision stays with the onfield official.

Some may say that complicates it more. I dunno. I just really dislike VAR. Ultimately, it’s not going to stop the best teams from winning or the poorest sides from getting relegated.

I know everyone wants correct decisions. In my opinion, I’d stick with goal line technology. Maybe use VAR to sort out the cheating first, then build from that.

When Ogbu scored yesterday I was gutted when I saw the linesman’s flag. That’s bad enough. But when Hanson scored, could you imagine us all waiting while VAR decided if there were any offences in the box when the corner was swung in? They could’ve disallowed it for the smallest shirt tug and the fans in the stands would’ve had no idea.

Quoted from StaffsMariner

Hell we might even be in a new stadium before VAR gets to our division.

Hell we might even be in the Premier League before we get to our new stadium!

Quoted from Gaffer58

The cheating side should be looked at, does VAR check if the player had dived for penalties, also when a player gets caught on his chest but goes down holding his face as if he'd been shot, is VAR checking this?

They do check for a red card offence that the ref might have missed.

Like the one game Town had it in operation at Palace.

As many of us foretold VAR is making the game ridiculous.

The game is littered with mistakes by players and managers so why should the officials have to be "perfect"?

Goal-line technology is fair enough, but anything else just makes a mockery of the game. If you take it to its logical conclusion, any missed foul leading up to a goal should be brought back so you may as well play the game on a computer screen.

I would also imagine that most saved penalties would have to be re-taken. It is almost impossible to stop encroaching into the box as the kick is taken - a split second too early and you are inside the box so if the keeper saves it would have to re-taken. Valid penalty saves would become a thing of the past.

What a mess they have made of it.

It may have already been covered but was Foxy the first player in England to be sent off by VAR?

My question is, a defender is in the box as the player shoots and the keeper saves it, is it retaken? Or is it only retaken if the player who was in the box interfers after.. Also if an attacking player enters as the player scores is it a goal?

As I see it, it's not the VAR that's the problem, but the way the decision is made. As it stand, they are using slide rules and micrometers to arrive at a decision. Why can't the ref watch a replay on the stadium screen to see if it needs referring. If it looks level on the big screen then it stands. No use of lines and blowing it up to see if a fingernail is offside. The ref and the crowd will watch the replay in real time so the fans will know exactly what is happening.
As for penalties, the linesman stands on the goaline watching the keepers feet, so why do we need VAR? Just instruct the lines person to be strict with the keeper moving off the line and flag it.

Quoted from RonMariner

You don't think Paul McCartney can sing!!

Blimey. Heard it all now. :)

He can’t anymore, he’s shocking

Quoted from lukeo

Just switched MOTD on and I'm already fed up of fuffing VAR and I've not even finished watching the first match highlights. It's redicilous! This may be the point now where I stop watching the premiership / MOTD full stop.
Must be horrible in the stand having to wait after the balls hit the net to celebrate or to see a goal, see the lineo has their flag down so you celebrate, your opponents take the ball to the half way line for them to decide actually it was offside.

I stopped watching it years ago when they made you sit through all the prem games before they rattled through the FA Cup at the end.

Just seen the Man City disallowed goal for "handball". Jesus wept (!) they have got to change the rules as it is a bloody joke.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Just seen the Man City disallowed goal for "handball". Jesus wept (!) they have got to change the rules as it is a bloody joke.

Just be thankful the EFL has not decided to use it for the likes of us! ;D

What they should do now is have all the best referees in the EFL where they are needed and the rubbish ones in the PL so VAR can make all the decisions.

Hated it since the moment it came in. To disallow a goal for that its crazy

The handball rule is a farce now. Said it even before the season started. Had the defender done the same “ handball” and the ball was cleared, no one would have been the wiser and the game would have played on.

Quoted from Hagrid

Hated it since the moment it came in. To disallow a goal for that its crazy

With respect H, that is the problem. Too many people hated it “since” instead of “before”. This is all so very very predictable. It is new and it is super accurate so it MUST be good. People who dislike it are technophobes and luddites who do not understand the modern world .......

VAR is just an example of football jumping at change for the wrong reasons and throwing out the baby with the bath water. VAR does not need tinkering with, it needs to go and let’s get back to football as a human activity played for professional entertainment of other humans.

Once again, not VARs fault at the weekend, that's the new handball ruling, VAR ensured the correct decision was made. And smoothly and promptly too.

It's the rule that's ridiculous.

I am already thinking GOAL !!!!!

Just a minute will it be disallowed ?

Taken all the excitement out of seeing a goal scored.

Quoted from Rik e B

Once again, not VARs fault at the weekend, that's the new handball ruling, VAR ensured the correct decision was made. And smoothly and promptly too.

It's the rule that's ridiculous.

No it isn’t. The very existence of VAR now means any remotely contentious (or even non-contentious) event on the field has people looking for VAR if they think it can gain them an advantage. It has altered the whole atmosphere of the game. Like Pete says, we immediately shout “goal” while wondering if the eye in the sky will allow it. That is so wrong it is unbelievable. It is football Rik but not as we know it!

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

With respect H, that is the problem. Too many people hated it “since” instead of “before”. This is all so very very predictable. It is new and it is super accurate so it MUST be good. People who dislike it are technophobes and luddites who do not understand the modern world .......

VAR is just an example of football jumping at change for the wrong reasons and throwing out the baby with the bath water. VAR does not need tinkering with, it needs to go and let’s get back to football as a human activity played for professional entertainment of other humans.

But that will never happen now it's been introduced to the top European leagues.
Get used to it because no amount of supporter protest etc will have any influence whatsoever with uefa etc.
Interesting article about var in Germany after its introduction there a while ago.

https://www.dw.com/en/var-in-the-bundesliga-completely-fair-football-will-never-exist/a-47124441

This is what happens when lunatics are running the asylum. The people in charge of making the rules have absolutely no idea of the game. The are trying to sanitise the game and take away the spontaneity that makes football what it is.

Quoted from Rik e B

Once again, not VARs fault at the weekend, that's the new handball ruling, VAR ensured the correct decision was made. And smoothly and promptly too.

It's the rule that's ridiculous.

So you would sacrifice the excitement of the game for a "correct decision"?

What about the tens of incorrect decisions that are made during the game that VAR doesn't influence? If there is a foul on the halfway line that the ref gets wrong, just before a goal is scored or disallowed should that be brought back so that a "correct decision" is reached? Why are correct decisions only being made when it involves goalscoring? The answer is that football is a sport not a science.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

So you would sacrifice the excitement of the game for a "correct decision"?

What about the tens of incorrect decisions that are made during the game that VAR doesn't influence? If there is a foul on the halfway line that the ref gets wrong, just before a goal is scored or disallowed should that be brought back so that a "correct decision" is reached? Why are correct decisions only being made when it involves goalscoring? The answer is that football is a sport not a science.

As Gary Lineker said last night....VAR was correct but the law's an behind...both sides should be treat the same ..if the ball "hits" an attackers arm/ hand it's advantage to the defensive side...if it "hits" a defenders arm/ hand it's advantage to the defensive side !?! How can that be right?

VAR is awful. I don't think any of us can actually complain about it getting decisions wrong because, in theory, it shouldn't.

I just think it's a technology not suited to the sport. The governing bodies are trying to shoehorn a piece of tech into a game that is fast and free-flowing and doesn't have time or space for it. They're forcing it to fit.

People may claim I don't mean this but I genuinely, genuinely, don't care about all decisions being 100% correct. There are too many instances in football that could be reviewed. You could review every foul, every throw-in, every corner, every penalty claim, every aerial duel between a centre back and a striker. I mean, where do you stop?

Incidents happen every few seconds in every football match up and down the land. The referee is there to make the call. The only piece of technology I agree with is goal-line technology. That's the most vital area and it's either in or not. It's black and white. It needs no interpretation.

I'm sure someone will call me out and say would I insist on VAR if the Mariners were relegated, or denied promotion, based on an incorrect decision? Well, no I wouldn't. I've spent my whole life watching football knowing that refs get it wrong. But I also know they're not out to deliberately target us.

Well, apart from Carl Boyeson :)

Well I think the Premier League have gone at it better than Europe and Fifa as its only used in high end decisions and only then 'clear and obvious errors' so the ref still makes his call as usual and only if it a heinous miscarriage of justice will the VAR team intervene.

Where it takes away it can add drama back, I don't think people are going to stop celebrating wildly in case VAR overrules shortly after - for one, some goals you just know nothing wrong with, screamers from outside the box for example. And we already had that egg on face emotion when a linesman would belatedly raise his flag whilst we jumping up and down going wild before finally realising it been chalked off.

Now there is added nail biting moments as we notice the ref pointing out VAR may have spotted a discrepancy and the conceding side and supporters cross their fingers that the goal will not stand. There is also the added elation from the opposite fans if the goal is disallowed -kind of like when a penalty is saved after being gutted that one conceded and adamant about to concede as a result.

VAR did well yesterday (imo) for Man City it rightly pulled up the (ridiculous) new rule about any hitting of an arm being a factor in a goal being scored and quickly too before the players were taking their places either side of the centre circle again.

And the other major decision it rightly chalked out an offside goal, again reviewed and decided before the match was due to kick off again.

Other than that it runs silent in the background double checking and okaying goals so no glaring travestys of justice take place.

It's goals that change games, that's why they right to just keep it minimal to this crucial area of the game and letting the ref get on with things elsewhere.

Maybe most of you guys are of an older vintage to myself and so have been in love with the game as it was for much longer. Also it is well known that people are resistant to change, the human brain likes things to stay as they are where it feels comfortable and safe (slightly off point).

So long as technology doesn't encroach further and further and is kept to the big game changing decisions and further streamlined instead of going down the road of American football or whatever, I believe it for the greater good. In time it will just be normal, we experiencing that initial resistance right now I feel. Add that to it still being in a somewhat experimental stage, it going to be a contentious issue to start with.

I'm all for VAR at towns games because when we score it nowadays takes me so long to get the knees working to stand up and celebrate that by the time I'm nearly ready VAR has been implemented and probably cancelled the goal. Therefore I'm still sat quite comfortable with my blanket and flask intact.

Quoted from Rik e B

Well I think the Premier League have gone at it better than Europe and Fifa as its only used in high end decisions and only then 'clear and obvious errors' so the ref still makes his call as usual and only if it a heinous miscarriage of justice will the VAR team intervene.

Where it takes away it can add drama back, I don't think people are going to stop celebrating wildly in case VAR overrules shortly after - for one, some goals you just know nothing wrong with, screamers from outside the box for example. And we already had that egg on face emotion when a linesman would belatedly raise his flag whilst we jumping up and down going wild before finally realising it been chalked off.

Now there is added nail biting moments as we notice the ref pointing out VAR may have spotted a discrepancy and the conceding side and supporters cross their fingers that the goal will not stand. There is also the added elation from the opposite fans if the goal is disallowed -kind of like when a penalty is saved after being gutted that one conceded and adamant about to concede as a result.

VAR did well yesterday (imo) for Man City it rightly pulled up the (ridiculous) new rule about any hitting of an arm being a factor in a goal being scored and quickly too before the players were taking their places either side of the centre circle again.

And the other major decision it rightly chalked out an offside goal, again reviewed and decided before the match was due to kick off again.

Other than that it runs silent in the background double checking and okaying goals so no glaring travestys of justice take place.

It's goals that change games, that's why they right to just keep it minimal to this crucial area of the game and letting the ref get on with things elsewhere.

Maybe most of you guys are of an older vintage to myself and so have been in love with the game as it was for much longer. Also it is well known that people are resistant to change, the human brain likes things to stay as they are where it feels comfortable and safe (slightly off point).

So long as technology doesn't encroach further and further and is kept to the big game changing decisions and further streamlined instead of going down the road of American football or whatever, I believe it for the greater good. In time it will just be normal, we experiencing that initial resistance right now I feel. Add that to it still being in a somewhat experimental stage, it going to be a contentious issue to start with.

I think we all understand that point but you don’t seem to see what really matters Rik. This has nothing to do with age. It is not so much that VAR is right or wrong, it is not even whether VAR runs in the background or the foreground or hyperspace in between.

The problem with VAR is simple - it exists.

By existing it automatically alters the way the game is played, refereed and watched because everyone has this sort of itchy feeling that there is a higher power in charge of the game. It does not matter whether that is true, it does not even matter whether VAR is the most technologically accurate machine since the invention of the slide rule. It changes our perspective.

Quoted from Rik e B

Well I think the Premier League have gone at it better than Europe and Fifa as its only used in high end decisions and only then 'clear and obvious errors' so the ref still makes his call as usual and only if it a heinous miscarriage of justice will the VAR team intervene.

Where it takes away it can add drama back, I don't think people are going to stop celebrating wildly in case VAR overrules shortly after - for one, some goals you just know nothing wrong with, screamers from outside the box for example. And we already had that egg on face emotion when a linesman would belatedly raise his flag whilst we jumping up and down going wild before finally realising it been chalked off.

Now there is added nail biting moments as we notice the ref pointing out VAR may have spotted a discrepancy and the conceding side and supporters cross their fingers that the goal will not stand. There is also the added elation from the opposite fans if the goal is disallowed -kind of like when a penalty is saved after being gutted that one conceded and adamant about to concede as a result.

VAR did well yesterday (imo) for Man City it rightly pulled up the (ridiculous) new rule about any hitting of an arm being a factor in a goal being scored and quickly too before the players were taking their places either side of the centre circle again.

And the other major decision it rightly chalked out an offside goal, again reviewed and decided before the match was due to kick off again.

Other than that it runs silent in the background double checking and okaying goals so no glaring travestys of justice take place.

It's goals that change games, that's why they right to just keep it minimal to this crucial area of the game and letting the ref get on with things elsewhere.

Maybe most of you guys are of an older vintage to myself and so have been in love with the game as it was for much longer. Also it is well known that people are resistant to change, the human brain likes things to stay as they are where it feels comfortable and safe (slightly off point).

So long as technology doesn't encroach further and further and is kept to the big game changing decisions and further streamlined instead of going down the road of American football or whatever, I believe it for the greater good. In time it will just be normal, we experiencing that initial resistance right now I feel. Add that to it still being in a somewhat experimental stage, it going to be a contentious issue to start with.

I agree entirley with the reply from RRFC.

It is not for the greater good. It is trying to shoehorn a modern system into a fast flowing, unpredictable and mistake ridden game. Every passage of play leads directly or indirectly to something contentious, so where would we draw the line if we wanted every decision to be correct?

The Manchester City disallowed goal was the daftest thing I have ever seen; players having goals ruled out for being 1inch offside is totally and utterly ludicrous - that is not what the spirit of the laws of the game are there for.

I repeat myself but mistakes are made all over the park but that is part of the fun.

At 63 and thus of the older vintage I welcome goal line technology and could accept penalty decisions being ratified or overturned, however, I thought the offside rule was to prevent a forward seeking an advantage by basically loitering behind the defence. What we now have is a rule governed by the size of a players feet meaning his big toe is offside or he happens to lean forward prior to receiving the ball and thus his head or shoulders may be beyond the last defender. Was it the Southampton v Derby cup game where the size of a defenders backside resulted in the player being onside.

If they insist on keeping VAR then change that rule to say there must be clear daylight between defender and attacker at the time the ball is played as even technology does not give an exact reading of when the ball is actually kicked, hence the big toe may have been onside at that “precise” moment.

We still have the stupid “second phase” rule whereby you can be five yards offside when the ball is played to a teammate who then squares it for you to score but that’s ok even though you have gained a glaring advantage over the defender by taking up that initial offside position. Thankfully when we old guys played no such stupid interpretation existed and progress is not always good.

VAR is brilliant if you sit at home necking pop and crisps while watching match of the day having never entered a football ground in your life.
Everything is explained to you from every angle and the game lasts lots longer so more value for your sky subscription.
For people like you and me who have spent our lives paying through the turnstiles it's just another nail in the coffin of the game we love.
"Ooh the ball's in the back of the net, give it 5mins to see if we can have a terrace boogie"

Just a suggestion, get rid of offside completely, all the controversial goals would straight away become legitimate, it would open the game up as you could leave a forward in the opposition penalty area all game, and I suspect create even more goals hence games would be more exciting.

Quoted from Gaffer58

Just a suggestion, get rid of offside completely, all the controversial goals would straight away become legitimate, it would open the game up as you could leave a forward in the opposition penalty area all game, and I suspect create even more goals hence games would be more exciting.

Interesting concept personally would change to only being offside in the penalty area. Think older fishy members may remember this being tried in the old Witney Cup but it was so long ago can’t remember if was deemed a successful idea nor who played in that damn mini preseason tournament or why/how clubs qualified for it.

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

Interesting concept personally would change to only being offside in the penalty area. Think older fishy members may remember this being tried in the old Witney Cup but it was so long ago can’t remember if was deemed a successful idea nor who played in that damn mini preseason tournament or why/how clubs qualified for it.

Yes I remember it. The idea was to stop the defenders playing offside on the half way line and squashing the play into midfield. Wasn’t there a line right across the field at 18 yards?

I'm all for VAR

The cheating in football is spiralling out of control, players are now going down in the penalty area with the slightest of nudges.

It's not ideal but VAR is the only thing that will save our game.

Good point by Scuntland, I'm in favour but then again I don't support a Club attending matches where it affects my match day experience week in week out so can I really make a fair and proper judgement?

Listen the debate sure to rage on and like Brexiteers versus Remainers or Liberal lefties against the right, both sides bound to become entrenched in their views and unlikely to waiver from their stance. I say it'll calm down in time but I'm sure there plenty who will forever hark to the 'good old days' before VAR.

One thing is for certain it isn't going anywhere.

Quoted from promotion plaice

I'm all for VAR

The cheating in football is spiralling out of control, players are now going down in the penalty area with the slightest of nudges.

It's not ideal but VAR is the only thing that will save our game.

Nothing annoys me more either PP but I don’t think giving refs a new toy to play with is going to help. They are already showing signs of not taking responsibility and VAR will just make it worse. To my mind events that happen on the field should be dealt with on the field. If we are having VAR then have it for everything, referee the game from upstairs via whistles and a loudspeaker and call it something else other than football.

Football , at least at the higher levels , has changed so much because of the money that is now involved. There is more at stake now to satisfy owners and this has lead to more cheating , some of it not so subtle, to get a result. The fine lines between off-side and handball, quite a few not being totally picked up by the match officials, has resulted in FIFA, UEFA and the FA looking for technological solutions. The result is VAR and goal line technology, with the latter welcomed but the former causing so much confusion. Certainly with off side the criteria should be re-examined and maybe some small degree of latitude allowed ie if the whole of the leading foot and not just 2 or 3 cms. The problem is that Pandoras' Box has been opened and VAR will certainly not go away.