Probably a VAR first tonight....VAR looking at a possible Swiss penalty as Portugal go up the pitch and are awarded a penalty themselves, VAR brings the game back for a Swiss penalty which they score from to make it 1-1

Allegedly the England so called fans are causing trouble in the centre of Porto tonight.

Quoted from promotion plaice

Probably a VAR first tonight....VAR looking at a possible Swiss penalty as Portugal go up the pitch and are awarded a penalty themselves, VAR brings the game back for a Swiss penalty which they score from to make it 1-1

Allegedly the England so called fans are causing trouble in the centre of Porto tonight.

Yep the morons are out again.
No russians around this time,more the pity.

https://twitter.com/seaningle/status/1136352284194025475

Ronaldo hat trick blows Switzerland away in the end....FT  Portugal 3-1 Switzerland

Quoted from promotion plaice

Ronaldo hat trick blows Switzerland away in the end....FT  Portugal 3-1 Switzerland

What a player  8) 8)

Quoted from Stadium

Yep the morons are out again.
No russians around this time,more the pity.

https://twitter.com/seaningle/status/1136352284194025475

Just when you thought we where through with all that stuff ☹️

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Just when you thought we where through with all that stuff ☹️

As normal embarrasing and its never gone away.

Running battles and hotels in lock down.....just when the future is looking good for us on the pitch we'll probably get a ban by UEFA.

...........all through with that stuff?  


Is that England thugs causing trouble again.  Or, Ronaldo getting another hat trick?

Football article today that Portugal are about far more than Ronaldo.  Well, ...........

Quoted from promotion plaice

Probably a VAR first tonight....VAR looking at a possible Swiss penalty as Portugal go up the pitch and are awarded a penalty themselves, VAR brings the game back for a Swiss penalty which they score from to make it 1-1

Allegedly the England so called fans are causing trouble in the centre of Porto tonight.

England fans are at the Portugal - Swiss game ?

edit - its ok....i have researched and realise England are playing tomorrow.  Not having Sky i have not seen any adverts for the game.

Quoted from moosey_club

England fans are at the Portugal - Swiss game ?

Most probably staying in Porto,the game tomorrow is in Guimaraes- hour or so by rail.

About time that Ronaldo chap hung his boots up isn't it? I mean, 34 is no age to be playing football- surely his 'legs have gone'.  ;)

Quoted from ginnywings

About time that Ronaldo chap hung his boots up isn't it? I mean, 34 is no age to be playing football- surely his 'legs have gone'.  ;)

The commentator on talkSPORT tonight said "you'd have to play him as long as he can stand up wouldn't you?"   :)

Flying out on Friday.

Had my first experience of following England away in Russia last summer and loved it. Was surrounded by proper football fans.

Not thrilled about the prospect of this weekend at all now.

flipping embarrassing arseholes.  They didn’t dare do that in Russia the scum.

I obviously don't know exactly what went on but just saw this on twitter...

[img]https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/62002371_624838921340865_3186124886133178368_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr3-1.xx&oh=58e247819ff2918fd71b23b2e0b23908&oe=5D91C0CC[/img][img]https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/62582208_624838958007528_7880485168127934464_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr3-1.xx&oh=950aa95025fa0b2adc0ff898523602f1&oe=5D8AF150[/img]

Quoted from Stadium

What a player  8) 8)

Not as good as Messi though  ;)

Quoted from Les Brechin

I obviously don't know exactly what went on but just saw this on twitter...

[img]https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/62002371_624838921340865_3186124886133178368_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr3-1.xx&oh=58e247819ff2918fd71b23b2e0b23908&oe=5D91C0CC[/img][img]https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/62582208_624838958007528_7880485168127934464_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr3-1.xx&oh=950aa95025fa0b2adc0ff898523602f1&oe=5D8AF150[/img]

Hmmm, "Kop Column" obviously not his fault and "t'Daily Mail" I have no sympathy for Yorkies.

Heard a few reports the England fans, by and large weren't doing much wrong. Obviously the few idiots you get everywhere but the reputation still precedes us it would seem!

Quoted from gtfckyle

Heard a few reports the England fans, by and large weren't doing much wrong. Obviously the few idiots you get everywhere but the reputation still precedes us it would seem!

I suppose the England fans throwing bikes into the canal in the Netherlands was because they were provoked too?

I'm sure there was two sides to the story, but plenty of nations don't get involved in situations like this regardless of who started it. And usually the English fans are being provocative and giving plenty of verbal encouragement before somebody else starts it. Trying to pretend that it's never our fault is part of the problem. We have people who drink too much and act like idiots which leads to situations like this.

I'm proud to be English but ashamed of the people who get involved in situations like this.

Seeing programs on hooligans and from police sometimes its not the England fans fault.In Russia for instance plenty of English fans were just enjoying the atmosphere but were targeted by Russian hooligans because of the reputation  English fans had from years gone by?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That's not the point though is it? For many years Scotland had a similar reputation, especially in the games against England, but they always travel abroad in good numbers - even though they're crap - and there's never a hint of any trouble. It's not your history that counts it's your present day mentality. Throw in Brexit, rising xenophobia, and you've got the perfect storm for such actions. Sadly.....

The missus has just asked where Harry Kane is as she couldn't see him, I replied " he's still in Van Dijt back pocket from Saturday night" she did not understand my reply.

Penalty England

1-0 England (Rashford pen)   :)

Get in.....even if it was against the run of play.

Quoted from Rick12

Seeing programs on hooligans and from police sometimes its not the England fans fault.In Russia for instance plenty of English fans were just enjoying the atmosphere but were targeted by Russian hooligans because of the reputation  English fans had from years gone by?

???
Can't remember any significant trouble at the world cup in Russia??
If your refering to the Euro 2016 riots in Marseilles the England "fans" were targeted but weren't exactly blameless either.
England have a minority of absolute bellends who consider themselves to be "hooligans" but were taught a lesson by the Russians.
I know plenty of ordinary fans who travel & are never involved in any trouble or have an issue.

The game is being played at a decent pace but the play and in particular passing from both sides is sloppy and it seems that a 3 week gap for most of the players has been a bit long.


I don’t think it would have mattered who Russia would have drawn in Euro 2016 - us, Germany, Italy or Holland etc (can’t remember who qualified). Whoever the big nation they played would have been on the end of a MMA riots as a warning for the World Cup and that any trouble would have been ‘dealt with’. It worked. Some of our flabby stag do nobs had had it coming a while although it’s not good that at least one was left in a vegetative state as a result.

Kane on!

Radio 5 live saying around 3/4 thousand Holland fans at the game tonight, 18/20 thousand England fans at the game.

1-1 been coming

2-1 nethalands been flipping about with it at the back too much

It's not over yet but Loftus Cheek and Hudson Odoi a big miss for England for me.

That was like Town on a bad day :o :o

Self inflicted once again

They think it's all over, it is now   :o :o :o

TRying to play a system that doesn't suit us. It won't work.

Play to us strengths

Terrible. At least town never let us down in June

Schoolboy stuff at times.  Stones has always been a liability, but whole performance was downright sloppy and lazy.

They are not as good as they think they are.

3 Terrible mistakes aside, we played some good passing football at times.

Sancho is going to be a very good player.

Sort the midfield 3 out, and we would of won that in the 90 minutes

We played some nice stuff at times and Southgate is doing the right thing by trying to get us to pass more.  We won't be able to win a major tournament of 7 games in a month in 30 degree heat, unless we learn how to control midfield and until we get a midfielder or two who can transition from defence to attack more effectively than our current midfield.

Looking at the goals in extra time, yes they were poor individual mistakes, but they came about because there wasn't anyone in midfield to take the ball and turn it into possession, hence we end up with Stones and Barkley getting caught out playing the ball around the back.

We look decent going forward and have some exciting players, but to kick on to the next level, Southgate needs to get in some of the younger midfielders like Foden and Winks and see if we can control the ball a bit more.  Yes, Southgate could go back to a kick-and-rush game and we might get a few more short-term wins and batter teams on wet autumn evenings at Wembley in qualification, but over the long term we'd still not develop enough of a possession game to win a tournament.

In all, he'll probably learn more from last night's game having lost, than if we'd not had that goal disallowed and gone through.

Think it was Cundy on talksport got it spot on; Stones waltzes about like he's Beckenbauer but he's just not.

24 now and has always been a liability in that regard. Still not eradicated the ridiculous errors he so prone to. Come back Gomez!

Cannot believe the calls for us to stop 'faffing about at the back'.  It's this idea that we have to hit it long every time that has seen England struggle for so long.

Last night wasn't great but our downfall wasn't because we didn't go long, it was because of individual errors.  Stones would have dallied about on the ball regardless if we had played it short or long.  

There's a lot about the lack of options from the midfield last night and whilst I agree, because the middle three offered little in way of options.  Those mistakes didn't come from that.  The Dutch second goal was because Stones lost concentration and tried something stupid.  The first goal came because Stones lost his man at a corner, unforgivable for a centre-back and the warning signs were made in the 70 odd minutes before hand.  The third goal came because Barkley tried a blind pass in front of his own goal, arguably it was under pressure as we were chasing the game but it was just reckless.

Stones as a player hasn't progressed I'm afraid.  He can probably get away with playing in a back 3 but his defensive game is too weak and in all honesty, he's not that good at bringing it out either.   Definitely not good enough to make up for his defensive shortcomings.

The eleven that Southgate put out last night was, in my eyes, a bit of a bridge between where we were and where we want to be.  The likes of Stones, Barkley and Walker are good players. Players who 3 years ago we would looked to have built our future sides around.  But now we've moved on, we've a new and better generation emerging and we should be looking at these players as our back-ups at best.  Gomez, Alexander-Arnold, Foden/Winks should all be pressing into the first team when fit and available.

The midfield was badly imbalanced last night.  Rice, Delph and Barkley is a terrible combination, especially when Barkley was coming so deep to try and influence play.  Could maybe have got away with it had Barkley stayed further forward but we effectively played with 3 deep midfielders.

Lot for Southgate to take from this game and a hell of a lot to work on, but the last thing we need to do is revert to old and just launch it long in the hope it'll fall kindly.

But for the success of English club football this season, last night's England team would have been a lot different and a lot stronger.

Quoted from Les Brechin

But for the success of English club football this season, last night's England team would have been a lot different and a lot stronger.

Really Les based on what and who? The 4 sides that competed in the 2 Finals had very few English players between them and the star man Kane clearly way off in terms of fitness due to his injury and IMO should have been let go on holiday.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Cannot believe the calls for us to stop 'faffing about at the back'.  It's this idea that we have to hit it long every time that has seen England struggle for so long.

Last night wasn't great but our downfall wasn't because we didn't go long, it was because of individual errors.  Stones would have dallied about on the ball regardless if we had played it short or long.  

There's a lot about the lack of options from the midfield last night and whilst I agree, because the middle three offered little in way of options.  Those mistakes didn't come from that.  The Dutch second goal was because Stones lost concentration and tried something stupid.  The first goal came because Stones lost his man at a corner, unforgivable for a centre-back and the warning signs were made in the 70 odd minutes before hand.  The third goal came because Barkley tried a blind pass in front of his own goal, arguably it was under pressure as we were chasing the game but it was just reckless.

Stones as a player hasn't progressed I'm afraid.  He can probably get away with playing in a back 3 but his defensive game is too weak and in all honesty, he's not that good at bringing it out either.   Definitely not good enough to make up for his defensive shortcomings.

The eleven that Southgate put out last night was, in my eyes, a bit of a bridge between where we were and where we want to be.  The likes of Stones, Barkley and Walker are good players. Players who 3 years ago we would looked to have built our future sides around.  But now we've moved on, we've a new and better generation emerging and we should be looking at these players as our back-ups at best.  Gomez, Alexander-Arnold, Foden/Winks should all be pressing into the first team when fit and available.

The midfield was badly imbalanced last night.  Rice, Delph and Barkley is a terrible combination, especially when Barkley was coming so deep to try and influence play.  Could maybe have got away with it had Barkley stayed further forward but we effectively played with 3 deep midfielders.

Lot for Southgate to take from this game and a hell of a lot to work on, but the last thing we need to do is revert to old and just launch it long in the hope it'll fall kindly.

There is a lot for the manager to take from the game? How to win from a winning position would be a good start. How to create good decision making would be a must. Even Brazil do not play every ball from the back as though they are in the final third. They rarely get anywhere near being caught in possession and if they are they are not afraid to launch to ball upfield or into Row W. If you are likely to let a player in on goal by playing from the back then which is the lesser evil? Barkley and Stones found out didn't they? I for one would rather have seen the ball in the stand than the back of our net.  Like the Germans, they are schooled to play but they are schooled to WIN. The England side is schooled to make excuses for not winning.

This was a Mickey Mouse competition semi but it was at least a competition and once again we showed ourselves lacking the edge and the nous to see out a game from a winning position. Why? Poor selection, poor tactics and poor attitude. All the things people moaned about with previous coaches.

One interesting thing was said about Koeman before the game by a Dutch journalist. He is the first coach since the old guard retired so he has a young side and is still finding his way. Our manager has had ages and ages in the set up, knows the players but appears to be losing his way very quickly.

Alexander-Arnold, Alli and Henderson are all key parts of that England set-up.

In the case of Alli and Henderson that's two-thirds of your midfield, an area where we struggled last night.  I'm not a massive Henderson fan and I think Alli has flattered to deceive in the last two years, especially at international level, but they both would have brought a better balance.

Agreed on Kane.  He looked poor and has looked jaded for a good year or so now.  He's gone through this constant cycle of getting injured, rushing back, never quite reaching peak fitness and then repeating.  His body needs a rest.

Stones has been an integral part of the improved style in play and would benefit from Gomez alongside him. Deserves the crticism for his decision making last night but all the players looked jaded too to be honest. Some "one game in June after a long season" sweeping statements about players who have played well over the past two years. A reality check for some regarding the limits of their abilities and decision making,  but I'm not getting too worked up about a single game in June after a long competitive English season when players looked mentally tired. Rice, Delph and Barkley is definitely not a world level midfield three though..

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

There is a lot for the manager to take from the game? How to win from a winning position would be a good start. How to create good decision making would be a must. Even Brazil do not play every ball from the back as though they are in the final third. They rarely get anywhere near being caught in possession and if they are they are not afraid to launch to ball upfield or into Row W. Like the Germans they are schooled to play but they are schooled to WIN. The England side is schooled to make excuses for not winning.

This was a Mickey Mouse competition semi but it was at least a competition and once again we showed ourselves lacking the edge and the nous to see out a game from a winning position. Why? Poor selection, poor tactics and poor attitude. All the things people moaned about with previous coaches.

One interesting thing was said about Koeman before the game by a Dutch journalist. He is the first coach since the old guard retired so he has a young side and is still finding his way. Our manager has had ages and ages in the set up, knows the players but appears to be losing his way very quickly.

I think that's quite unfair.  Especially the bit about being schooled to make excuses for not winning.  The young English players are winners. They've won on the international stage at all levels up to the national side.  

I can't ever recall seeing a Brazil side hitting it into the stands or even launching it up field, the reason is because they always have an option available to them.  Last night our midfield three offered so little it was painful, that said it was still needless mistakes that resulted in goals.  

It's a very, very young side.  You had Kyle Walker as your most experienced player, someone who is probably an understudy now.  Then it's Delph, again an understudy.  You're looking at Sterling as your only relatively experienced starter.  They will get better, they will get more composed and they will win things.  But it takes time, you can't just flick a switch.  We've improved so much in the last two years it's unreal.  But you only really learn from your mistakes.

Quoted from 1mickylyons

Really Les based on what and who? The 4 sides that competed in the 2 Finals had very few English players between them and the star man Kane clearly way off in terms of fitness due to his injury and IMO should have been let go on holiday.

Admittedly Kane and Alli were off the pace last night when they came on, but don't you think the England side would have been stronger if Henderson, Alexander-Arnold, Rose and maybe even Gomez would have started.

Quoted from diehardmariner

I think that's quite unfair.  Especially the bit about being schooled to make excuses for not winning.  The young English players are winners. They've won on the international stage at all levels up to the national side.  

I can't ever recall seeing a Brazil side hitting it into the stands or even launching it up field, the reason is because they always have an option available to them.  Last night our midfield three offered so little it was painful, that said it was still needless mistakes that resulted in goals.  

It's a very, very young side.  You had Kyle Walker as your most experienced player, someone who is probably an understudy now.  Then it's Delph, again an understudy.  You're looking at Sterling as your only relatively experienced starter.  They will get better, they will get more composed and they will win things.  But it takes time, you can't just flick a switch.  We've improved so much in the last two years it's unreal.  But you only really learn from your mistakes.

I admire your optimism! ;D

If teams only really learn from their mistakes then England are incredibly slow learners and will be a very, very long time studying.

In fairness to the players, some are lacking in regular top class club football but the biggest culprits for poor decisions and anonymity last night were the most experienced!

Brazil and other top sides do launch it from the back if they need to. The difference is that their accuracy is better and the target player better at receiving the ball. The issue of someone being available for the pass is another fallacy. Look at the top sides and the ball is most often played into midfield to a marked man who is expected to either pass first time, beat his marker or draw the foul.  Nevertheless are we saying that in a semi final where we we need to win we would like to see a defender always try to play a short ball, even if it puts his mate into trouble, rather than send it down the other end? No thanks. Row W may be ugly but if we win I’ll take it.

Quoted from Les Brechin

Admittedly Kane and Alli were off the pace last night when they came on, but don't you think the England side would have been stronger if Henderson, Alexander-Arnold, Rose and maybe even Gomez would have started.

Not sure mate personally as others have stated I thought mistakes apart the midfield were dominated throughout got a bit better when Henderson and Lingard came on and seemed to add energy? Barkley to me is a player I would have further forward feeding in the strikers he isn`t a typical up and down midfielder Rice I do like and Delph simply not good enough . The Dutch are an improving side that were awful 2 years ago England are the same old same old as in better than most but not quite good enough when it matters . We don`t have that winning mentality and you contrast Southgate (who I and I guess most people like?) vs Koeman who has a player cynically risked a red card to stop a goal got away with it and knocked us out he will do whatever it takes to get a win . The players you mentioned would they really have wanted when selected to sit on the bench or play from the start 2 games and go off on holiday for a rest before the next season starts? All players these days are now athletes and they must get the least amount of rest compared to sportspeople from other disciplines?

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

I admire your optimism! ;D

If teams only really learn from their mistakes then England are incredibly slow learners and will be a very, very long time studying.

In fairness to the players, some are lacking in regular top class club football but the biggest culprits for poor decisions and anonymity last night were the most experienced!

Brazil and other top sides do launch it from the back if they need to. The difference is that their accuracy is better and the target player better at receiving the ball. The issue of someone being available for the pass is another fallacy. Look at the top sides and the ball is most often played into midfield to a marked man who is expected to either pass first time, beat his marker or draw the foul.  Nevertheless are we saying that in a semi final where we we need to win we would like to see a defender always try to play a short ball, even if it puts his mate into trouble, rather than send it down the other end? No thanks. Row W may be ugly but if we win I’ll take it.

Two years ago I would agree with you that we're never going to learn from our mistakes because we just repeated the same old approach every two years, huffing and puffing hoping that something would come from nothing.  Even in the supposed Golden Generation we were hoping for a set-piece magic from Beckham or something inspired from the likes of Rooney, Gerrard or Lampard.  This England side hasn't been together long enough to learn from their mistakes, that said Southgate has (in my opinion) shown he can learn from mistakes or shortcomings.  He was quick to change from the back 3 that served us well at the World Cup because he recognised it's limitations.  Last night we were faced with a situation where the 4-3-3 variation that has served us well was limited, I wouldn't be surprised if he makes more changes as a result.

I think our view of 'launching it' may be different.  I mean just a big hoof up to the front and hope that the big man gets on the end of it.  Which is what we did for so many years under god knows how many managers.  When sides like Brazil go longer, as you said, it's more accurate and measured.  That's a result of better technical players making the passes and also the receiver making himself available and easier to find.  Last night, as a side we didn't help our defenders with easy passes at all.  But individually I don't really see any of that midfield 3 starting games at Euro 2020, most certainly not all 3 together.  Equally so I think we'll probably have better technical players at the back involved too.  

The more traditional route one approach hasn't worked for god knows how many years.  If it would work I would happily see it used if it meant we win, but it hasn't and it won't.  Whilst our transformation under Southgate has been rapid, it wasn't an instant thing.  It was carefully planned and developed.  We didn't become a decent side overnight, just like we haven't become a bad one overnight.  

England have used longer passes at times - look at the goals they scored in the 3-2 win in Spain. You do wonder if Stones can be trusted unfortunately and I think Gomez and Trent AA must be close to the first XI when fully fit and rested. Stick to the current philiosophy though there needs to be some pragmatism at times. It's still served us better than anything else we've tried in the last 20 years + though.

I think our midfield is the biggest issue. Need to be technically better and dictate the tempo more. Most concerning thing for me last night was the echoes of the Croatia WC semi and the way we allowed them to completely seize the initiative. Agree with whoever said we need to be looking to introduce the likes of Winks and Foden though I do like Henderson more than most seem to. Was really disappointed last night but still more excited about watching England than I have been in a long time.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

England have used longer passes at times - look at the goals they scored in the 3-2 win in Spain. You do wonder if Stones can be trusted unfortunately and I think Gomez and Trent AA must be close to the first XI when fully fit and rested. Stick to the current philiosophy though there needs to be some pragmatism at times. It's still served us better than anything else we've tried in the last 20 years + though.

I think our midfield is the biggest issue. Need to be technically better and dictate the tempo more. Most concerning thing for me last night was the echoes of the Croatia WC semi and the way we allowed them to completely seize the initiative. Agree with whoever said we need to be looking to introduce the likes of Winks and Foden though I do like Henderson more than most seem to. Was really disappointed last night but still more excited about watching England than I have been in a long time.

I certainly was when Lingard put that one away...must have been millimetres in that VAR decision  :-/

Quoted from diehardmariner

The more traditional route one approach hasn't worked for god knows how many years.  If it would work I would happily see it used if it meant we win, but it hasn't and it won't.  Whilst our transformation under Southgate has been rapid, it wasn't an instant thing.  It was carefully planned and developed.  We didn't become a decent side overnight, just like we haven't become a bad one overnight.  

I understand the point but I am an impatient bu99er. ;)

I just think that if Holland can go from not qualifying for the WC where we reach the semis, supposedly with a side in development, to a side that beats us in a semi the following year with a totally new team and manager, then why can’t we do that? People keep telling me how talented these kids are, how much they won at under 11 or whatever and how they are developing. But when the crunch comes, they just ain’t doing it. They fall at the fence as soon as the going gets tough. As soon as they are asked to do the ugly stuff and WIN, they fail and worse, they fail badly. It is like watching a balloon deflate. The manager looked totally clueless even before the equaliser. Yes, we can rightly argue the past was not a success but neither is the present and personally I cannot see this side and manager ever actually putting silverware on our shelves.

Not having Sky myself, I watched the match at my sons house.

The main thing I would take from the game is Martin Tyler having a chat to his mate Gary Neville for 90 odd minutes, and for Neville himself to drone on and on stating the absolute obvious.

VAR will kill the game; One minute jumping up that England had scored a winner, only to have it ruled out for a toe that was offside. Soon we will not be celebrating a goal as we would normally do,we will sit there passively as we will all be awaiitg the VAR verdict. Utterly stupid.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

I understand the point but I am an impatient bu99er. ;)

I just think that if Holland can go from not qualifying for the WC where we reach the semis, supposedly with a side in development, to a side that beats us in a semi the following year with a totally new team and manager, then why can’t we do that? People keep telling me how talented these kids are, how much they won at under 11 or whatever and how they are developing. But when the crunch comes, they just ain’t doing it. They fall at the fence as soon as the going gets tough. As soon as they are asked to do the ugly stuff and WIN, they fail and worse, they fail badly. It is like watching a balloon deflate. The manager looked totally clueless even before the equaliser. Yes, we can rightly argue the past was not a success but neither is the present and personally I cannot see this side and manager ever actually putting silverware on our shelves.

Ah.  Now that's about the game time their lads are getting then isn't it?  The likes De Ligt and De Jong are mainstays in the Ajax side, or were anyway.  The Premier League doesn't afford such luxuries, the likes of Sancho have set the standard in terms of what players must do if they're not getting first team football.  It's getting better and you only need to look at the English players now getting game time in the top six sides, especially compared with what it was 6-7 years ago.  But our midfield was made up of reserves and a lad from West Ham.  

It was also a weakened England team against what looked to be a full strength Dutch side.  You can argue the merits of resting players when they didn't but I think we would have benefited from Henderson and Alexander-Arnold both starting.  Kane when fit would have made a difference too.  Add to the mix Alli and you've got a third of your side.  

Have faith this side will develop, I'm confident that as the young lads get more game time they'll be a far better side than that Holland one.

Hard to judge how relevant the performance and result were last night.  The team was disrupted and not at its best for a number of reasons.

The midfield did not work as a unit and often did not welcome the ball being passed out to them.  This put greater pressure on the defence and reduced the time and options that they had to play the ball out.  

Stones suffered from these circumstances and made critical errors.  He is too much of a liability as he has done this before.  Maybe why he is not currently in the City first team.

A very good comment was made on the radio last night.  For variety, or if the opposition keep pressurising the defence, get the forwards to press-up to the edge of the penalty area.  The keeper can then kick it long trying to pick them out.  Gives you opponents a different threat to consider.


Man City are good at doing this, with Ederson very effective and accurate.

A wake up call might be no bad thing in the long-run.

Just saw it as a missed opportunity last night for us to win this tournament as I can only see the Nations League becoming bigger and more competitive in the future.

Semi-finals without Italy, Germany and Spain, chance missed for me.

I like both Stones and Barkley but I sometime wonder with them being at Man City and Chelsea if they perhaps can get a bit nonchalant, if they make a mistake at club level then 9 times out of 10 it's not seriousdie to the reams they play for. It was noticeable that Gaudirola ( the city manager) did not have Stones as his starter towards the end of the season.

Quoted from Gaffer58

I like both Stones and Barkley but I sometime wonder with them being at Man City and Chelsea if they perhaps can get a bit nonchalant, if they make a mistake at club level then 9 times out of 10 it's not seriousdie to the reams they play for. It was noticeable that Gaudirola ( the city manager) did not have Stones as his starter towards the end of the season.

Pep didn’t play stones for the last part of the season because he knew one mistake would cost the title and stones was the most likely to make it , the lad as just not pushed on like what was expected. We lack a playmaker a real dictator of a game

Quoted from TownSNAFU5

Hard to judge how relevant the performance and result were last night.  The team was disrupted and not at its best for a number of reasons.

The midfield did not work as a unit and often did not welcome the ball being passed out to them.  This put greater pressure on the defence and reduced the time and options that they had to play the ball out.  

Stones suffered from these circumstances and made critical errors.  He is too much of a liability as he has done this before.  Maybe why he is not currently in the City first team.

A very good comment was made on the radio last night.  For variety, or if the opposition keep pressurising the defence, get the forwards to press-up to the edge of the penalty area.  The keeper can then kick it long trying to pick them out.  Gives you opponents a different threat to consider.


Man City are good at doing this, with Ederson very effective and accurate.

A wake up call might be no bad thing in the long-run.

England midfield players have not been good at receiving the ball for years unless they are in acres of free space. Jonathan Northcroft in the Sunday Times this morning made the same point about Rice. He completed 54 out of 54 passes but only 3 were to his forwards.  Probably because in the PL if they manage to get a game they  have somebody alongside who can do it. People talk of playing Winks but he is not much better at it.

Henderson occasionally does a defence splitter but he needs time to do it. Barkley can do it now and again but he plays head down.

The best spells of play under Southgate have come generally early in a game before the opposition has settled and sussed this huge midfield weakness. England have managed to turn over possession and release the runners up front and with luck scored. As the game goes on the pattern in every match is no Plan B so as the opposition tighten up on midfield we pass backwards and sideways like we used to. So Stones is in bother then.

It is all very well for the coach to pontificate about young players playing exciting, possession football but if you read Northcroft’s analysis we get our possession turned over increasingly often as the game progresses. OK it was not full strength but the pattern is the same regardless of who plays. Southgate’s football is different to what we have seen from Hodgson etc. but his way is just as one dimensional and he does not seem able to change tack during a game when it happens.

I agree with the idea of having a sudden change of tactic, pushing 2/3 forwards right up on their back line for a minute or two and by-passing midfield with some long diagonals just to make opponents that bit more  wary. Both Man City and Liverpool do this to unsettle opponents and buy a bit of game time.

Dier and Delph together in midfield today does not fill me with optimism!

The trouble is we are all now wanting Henderson to play, he's ok but will not win you many games, granted he is very good at keeping possession, but the majority of his passes are either backwards or square. I assume at Liverpool he gives it to more creative players.

Dier is absolutely 2nd rate-if he ever ran more than 5mph he would collapse. He seems as though he couldn'.t be bothered half the time. If somebody passes to him 9/10 times he will pass the ball straight back to them and then just stand their.-fkng useless passenger.

England score but it's ruled out by VAR   8)

Frigging VAR is going to ruin our beautiful game.  At this rate it'll become so sterile they'll be playing nurses uniforms!!...hate it tbh..

The England fans are chanting "VAR a load of sh!t"   ;D

Jonathan Northcroft also made the point that De Jong is in a different class.  He can receive and make passes under severe pressure.  This is an invaluable skill.

He completed 100 out of 104 passes.  31 of which were played forward to his front three.  (It is not his fault that they wasted most of the chances created).

England 0 Switzerlan 0 AET

Penalties it is

Wht do both teams including substitutes have team talk before penalties-ok you score,you score,you score,you score,you score, you save.

Sudden death with everyone scoring then...

Pickford saves the Swiss 6th pen

6-5 to the Three Lions

Told you-keep up the team talks

Quoted from golfer

Told you-keep up the team talks

Perfect prediction of the Swiss sequence golfer ;)

Quoted from TownSNAFU5

Jonathan Northcroft also made the point that De Jong is in a different class.  He can receive and make passes under severe pressure.  This is an invaluable skill.

He completed 100 out of 104 passes.  31 of which were played forward to his front three.  (It is not his fault that they wasted most of the chances created).

He certainly is a different class. Mind you it also makes a big difference when there is nobody on the other side who gets anywhere near that pass ratio and forces him on the defensive. The same applied to Pirlo in the WC.

Not being picky but does anyone know why we don't sing the England national anthem?

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Frigging VAR is going to ruin our beautiful game.  At this rate it'll become so sterile they'll be playing nurses uniforms!!...hate it tbh..

As ever, what seemed a good idea to the powers that be, will cause more problems than it solves. Like you say it could well ruin the game.

Where does it end? Foul throws, fouls on the half way line? People will say "oh its only for the big decisions" but if a foul throw leads to a goal is that going to be subject to VAR? Or the foul on the half way line that is not spotted leads to a goal 10 seconds later?

Then there is the ridiculous palava of not knowing whether to celebrate a goal or not, and if you do celebrate then feeling like s**t when two minutes later it is ruled out because somebodys toe was offside in the build up.

Goal line technology should have been the end of it, and everything else left to teh ref.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

As ever, what seemed a good idea to the powers that be, will cause more problems than it solves. Like you say it could well ruin the game.

Where does it end? Foul throws, fouls on the half way line? People will say "oh its only for the big decisions" but if a foul throw leads to a goal is that going to be subject to VAR? Or the foul on the half way line that is not spotted leads to a goal 10 seconds later?

Then there is the ridiculous palava of not knowing whether to celebrate a goal or not, and if you do celebrate then feeling like s**t when two minutes later it is ruled out because somebodys toe was offside in the build up.

Goal line technology should have been the end of it, and everything else left to teh ref.

Absolutely bang on...it's a debate that will rear it's ugly head at every game now and for me football is fast, furious, full of taking points and that's what makes it.
The refs, including the assustants, will end up just turning to VAR  now as it takes the heat off them.
As for celebrating goals, it will be the case of no one will celebrate and will wait until the ref decides if it's a goal or if VAR chalks it off, all spontaneity will be gone, the jumping for joy, high fiving some random next to you, the tears of relief will turn to tears of despondency...
All in all a bad idea where modern technology isn't needed or wanted by most...

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

As ever, what seemed a good idea to the powers that be, will cause more problems than it solves. Like you say it could well ruin the game.

Where does it end? Foul throws, fouls on the half way line? People will say "oh its only for the big decisions" but if a foul throw leads to a goal is that going to be subject to VAR? Or the foul on the half way line that is not spotted leads to a goal 10 seconds later?

Then there is the ridiculous palava of not knowing whether to celebrate a goal or not, and if you do celebrate then feeling like s**t when two minutes later it is ruled out because somebodys toe was offside in the build up.

Goal line technology should have been the end of it, and everything else left to teh ref.

I’m split to be honest - is getting to the correct decision (most of the time) worth extracting the joy of spontaneously celebrating a goal? My first reaction when a goal goes in is to glance at the lino. No flag? Crack on.

If VAR is to work, they have to communicate that a goal is under review within a few seconds or we’re going to ruin the experience of watching football first hand. God forbid it ever reaches the lower leagues.

Quoted from Poojah

I’m split to be honest - is getting to the correct decision (most of the time) worth extracting the joy of spontaneously celebrating a goal? My first reaction when a goal goes in is to glance at the lino. No flag? Crack on.

If VAR is to work, they have to communicate that a goal is under review within a few seconds or we’re going to ruin the experience of watching football first hand. God forbid it ever reaches the lower leagues.

I don't think it is, no. There are poor refereeing decisions all over the pitch all the time. Any one of those incorrect decisions could lead to a goal, within a few seconds, or other game changing events, none of which will be referred to VAR. Every correct and every incorrect decision by a ref. alters the game, so unless you can get every single decision 100% correct it is pointless having VAR, as everything leading up to the contested decision has been affected by other decisons which may or may not have been correct...if you get my drift!

For example, a player takes a foul throw on the half way line, which 5 seconds later results in a goal. Or a player makes a perfectly good tackle in midfield, the referee gives an incorrect  foul which leads to a goal to the opposition. If trying to eliminate mistakes is the aim of VAR then where do we stop??? Do we go back a minute, or two minutes and follow what happened after a wrong decision?

Players make mistakes, referees make mistakes, which is what makes it so good to watch. We don't stop play when a player makes a mistake, so why would we when another human being (well almost) the referee makes an honest mistake?

You may be able to tell I am a bit aggravated about VAR  ;D

Quoted from Meza

Not being picky but does anyone know why we don't sing the England national anthem?

I don’t sing the GSTQ anthem because I support neither royalty nor religion  ;)

There isn't an English national anthem so it's pretty straightforward why one isn't sung!

There should be. Why do we have to put up with GSTQ. Nice me of the other Home Nations have to. And her Maj isn’t an English queen. Plenty of alternatives. It stinks.

Should say ‘none of the other Hone Nations have to ‘

Quoted from Maringer

There isn't an English national anthem so it's pretty straightforward why one isn't sung!

I believe it's Jerusalem or so my old man says anyway.  GSTQ is a British anthem.  In Rugby they sing the England anthem which is Jerusalem.

Scotland sing their anthem
Wales sing their anthem
Ireland sing their anthem
EIRE sing their anthem
England sings British anthem.....why?

VAR was originally brought out to determine if the ball had crossed the goal line-it should have just been used for this purpose. Stop tinkering with everything-let's have the debates after the game- it's all part of the fun.

I thought it was maybe 'Land of Hope and Glory', but whatever it is I know we do have an English Anthem. Strange that the British anthem is used

Quoted from Rik e B

I thought it was maybe 'Land of Hope and Glory', but whatever it is I know we do have an English Anthem. Strange that the British anthem is used

yeah my Dad said the same.  I said to him that I thought GSTQ was the one as that's the only one I've ever heard but he said the England Rugby is Jerusalem.

Quoted from Meza

I believe it's Jerusalem or so my old man says anyway.  GSTQ is a British anthem.  In Rugby they sing the England anthem which is Jerusalem.

Scotland sing their anthem
Wales sing their anthem
Ireland sing their anthem
EIRE sing their anthem
England sings British anthem.....why?

I thought NI had GSTQ? I imagine James McClean sang it heartily in his under 21 days.

Quoted from Rik e B

I thought it was maybe 'Land of Hope and Glory', but whatever it is I know we do have an English Anthem. Strange that the British anthem is used

Sadly we do not have an English anthem. Not officially.

Jerusalem for the words. ‘I vow to thee’ for the tune. LOHAG is a great tune but the words are iffy to shite (and I can’t get the Sarnt Major from It Ain’t Alf Hot Mum shouting ‘shut up’ our if my head when I hear it.)

I see the England fans are being pilloried by Cod Almighty for behaviour yet according to the media over 15k England fans present and 2 arrests :-/