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Posted by: lukeo, April 27, 2019, 10:18pm
The owner and majority share holder has to come out and name his price. Stop all this nonsense, open up, be honest and tell everyone what you are willing to take to walk away.

People who know me know I'm not usually one for this kind of bashing but from what I was told today everything a lot of posters have said about the majority share holder is true... Ex manager at the game today and hes opened up and backed up what a lot of people on here have said about being given no money, genuinely wanted to stay but got given a next to nothing budget and wasn't allowed to offer a contract to a certain player (who is now playing championshipp football!)

I think with a half decent budget MJ will be a decent manager for us and although results arent great at the moment I'm behind him. Utm
Posted by: dapperz fun pub, April 27, 2019, 11:00pm; Reply: 1
tell us names then fella it’s just words back it up
Posted by: lukeo, April 27, 2019, 11:30pm; Reply: 2
Hurst and Toto
Posted by: dapperz fun pub, April 27, 2019, 11:49pm; Reply: 3
Quoted from lukeo
Hurst and Toto


Ahh is that hurst who was given how many years to get us promotion bearing in mind we never once challenged for the title , now I’m not fenty biggest fan but on this one I think the ear cupping dwarf was a lucky man as for toto he’s no championship player
Posted by: LH, April 28, 2019, 12:19am; Reply: 4
We didn’t challenge for the title because we had a smaller budget than all of the eventual champions due to either parachute payments or rich owners. We didn’t invest our payments appropriately (did we get any?!)  or pump money in (other than the fans). Can we finally let this one lie? It was hard enough to be automatically promoted as it was.
Posted by: dapperz fun pub, April 28, 2019, 8:35am; Reply: 5
Quoted from LH
We didn’t challenge for the title because we had a smaller budget than all of the eventual champions due to either parachute payments or rich owners. We didn’t invest our payments appropriately (did we get any?!)  or pump money in (other than the fans). Can we finally let this one lie? It was hard enough to be automatically promoted as it was.


Hurst is the one not letting it go (apparently) if I was him I’d be lying low after the shambles he’s created at Ipswich  
Posted by: Ipswin, April 28, 2019, 8:37am; Reply: 6
Quoted from lukeo
Hurst and Toto


If a small budget helped to get rid of those two then he did us a favour

Posted by: RonMariner, April 28, 2019, 9:39am; Reply: 7
Was congratulating a Sheffield United supporting friend last night and he told me they have the 8th lowest budget in the championship.  

So it's really is all about how you spend your money, as we have seen with Chesterfield, Accrinton and others in recent years.
Posted by: Bigdog, April 28, 2019, 10:27am; Reply: 8
While having one of the biggest budgets in any division does not guarantee success it certainly increases the chances of success. The future planning of GTFC can't be based upon using anomalies like Accrington, it's akin to signing up to the "football fortune" business model. If you look at the top of our division, three of the biggest spenders fill three of the top four positions. The top five biggest budgets fill the top five places in League One, the top six biggest budgets in the Premier League are in the top six. Norwich and Sheff Utd have bucked the trend in the Championship this season, but the biggest budgeted teams, Newcastle and Wolves won it most recently. Waiting patiently in the hope of being an anomaly with a small budget is a huge risk and how many other teams have got relegated with one of the smallest budgets in the division? Plenty more than have got promoted. A better business and planning model for GTFC is to work frantically to find ways to amass one of the bigger budgets in the division without overspending. The only way to do this is to attract external investment or increase matchday and advertising revenue. Failing that, the Exeter model, unearthing young talent to sell on for big six figure fees or even seven figures seems to work well for them and Brentford higher up the pyramid. Of course if a football club is switched on it would be doing all three at the same time, increasing matchday revenue, sponsorship and advertising, GTFC stagnant at best and will probably drop over the summer, attract new inward investment, never at GTFC, and unearthing new talent, well we're offering youth more pro contracts but no proof of any future Bogles as of today. If we're waiting around to do an Accrington, for every Accrington there are at least a dozen Yeovils, Barnets or Dagenhams. It's a risky game trying to stave off apathy and a downward spiral season after season but I guess hoping for the anomaly of one season in ten or twenty which is football fortune is exactly where we are at the moment, and we should be doing much better than that behind the scenes and trying to find ways to have a bigger cloth to sustainably cut from..
Posted by: rancido, April 28, 2019, 10:53am; Reply: 9
Quoted from LH
We didn’t challenge for the title because we had a smaller budget than all of the eventual champions due to either parachute payments or rich owners. We didn’t invest our payments appropriately (did we get any?!)  or pump money in (other than the fans). Can we finally let this one lie? It was hard enough to be automatically promoted as it was.



We got a parachute payment for the first season. But surely because we didn't get further parachute payments and we don't have rich owners then it follows that our budget would have been smaller than some clubs. JF is comparatively wealthy ( especially as regards the average man in the street or local businessman ) but he would hardly come under the classification as " rich " ,certainly compared to a lot of other football club owners.
Posted by: The Old Codger, April 28, 2019, 11:06am; Reply: 10
I don’t think it was unreasonable for Hurst to expect a better budget or more staff. By the same token, I don’t think he’s doing himself any favours by continually crabbing about it.

Regards the way the club is run, it now no longer needs a change...it desperately has to change. The club is burning money keeping Blundell Park open as opposed to advancing the never-ending new stadium project. Which neatly brings me on to Extreme Leisure....whatever happened to them?
Posted by: Mariner93er, April 28, 2019, 11:10am; Reply: 11
People act like Hurst is roaming down the street rambling like a mad man. He's asked questions, and he answers them. Considering he's since been a championship manager, I'm sure he's over it.
Posted by: mimma, April 28, 2019, 3:50pm; Reply: 12
Parachute payment didn't exist for teams relegated to the conference when we did. They have only come in recently.
Posted by: rancido, April 28, 2019, 6:49pm; Reply: 13
Quoted from mimma
Parachute payment didn't exist for teams relegated to the conference when we did. They have only come in recently.



I think you will find they were called " solidarity payments " when we went non-league and  I do believe we got £240,000 for 1 season only.
Posted by: pen penfras, April 28, 2019, 7:41pm; Reply: 14
Quoted from lukeo
The owner and majority share holder has to come out and name his price. Stop all this nonsense, open up, be honest and tell everyone what you are willing to take to walk away.

People who know me know I'm not usually one for this kind of bashing but from what I was told today everything a lot of posters have said about the majority share holder is true... Ex manager at the game today and hes opened up and backed up what a lot of people on here have said about being given no money, genuinely wanted to stay but got given a next to nothing budget and wasn't allowed to offer a contract to a certain player (who is now playing championshipp football!)

I think with a half decent budget MJ will be a decent manager for us and although results arent great at the moment I'm behind him. Utm


Do any other football club owners come out and do this? I can't think of another club where the owner has said the club is up for sale and I want x amount for it. Maybe the clubs in financial ruin that get sold for £1, but that's only because the guy selling has far more invested in loans and wants them back and the sale of the club is to find somebody who guarantees the payback of the loans...

Even if Fenty does come out and say how much he wants, it'll only be used as something else to beat him with. I thought it was common knowledge that he wants his money back, so that's not a difficult number to work out.

As for Hurst, what a bitter little man he is. He was given a budget and had to stick to it, what use is complaining about it years later? I was under the impression that we lost money the first couple of years under Hurst, we certainly didn't make much. Where is the rest of the money that he should have had coming from?
Posted by: promotion plaice, April 28, 2019, 7:42pm; Reply: 15
Quoted from The Old Codger
Which neatly brings me on to Extreme Leisure....whatever happened to them?


Who knows....maybe they are still involved in delivering the new stadium but us fans get fed little information on how things are going   :-/

Posted by: chrissy, April 28, 2019, 8:56pm; Reply: 16
What was Hurst doing at the match ?  supporting Town or looking for his next job at County  ;)
Posted by: lukeo, April 28, 2019, 9:06pm; Reply: 17
Coming for the grimsby job  :D >:(
Posted by: promotion plaice, April 28, 2019, 9:24pm; Reply: 18
Quoted from lukeo
Coming for the grimsby job  :D >:(


Hope so......bring on the red crosses.
Posted by: Madeleymariner, April 28, 2019, 9:30pm; Reply: 19
Quoted from pen penfras


Do any other football club owners come out and do this? I can't think of another club where the owner has said the club is up for sale and I want x amount for it. Maybe the clubs in financial ruin that get sold for £1, but that's only because the guy selling has far more invested in loans and wants them back and the sale of the club is to find somebody who guarantees the payback of the loans...

Even if Fenty does come out and say how much he wants, it'll only be used as something else to beat him with. I thought it was common knowledge that he wants his money back, so that's not a difficult number to work out.

As for Hurst, what a bitter little man he is. He was given a budget and had to stick to it, what use is complaining about it years later? I was under the impression that we lost money the first couple of years under Hurst, we certainly didn't make much. Where is the rest of the money that he should have had coming from?

Port Vale
Posted by: The Old Codger, April 28, 2019, 10:09pm; Reply: 20
Quoted from Madeleymariner

Port Vale


And Bury. Pen penfras seems well connected, perhaps he/she/they will let us know?
Posted by: rancido, April 29, 2019, 7:55am; Reply: 21
Quoted from The Old Codger


And Bury. Pen penfras seems well connected, perhaps he/she/they will let us know?



But they haven't named their price , as Pen Penfras pointed out in his post
Posted by: golfer, April 29, 2019, 8:47am; Reply: 22
Quoted from chrissy
What was Hurst doing at the match ?  supporting Town or looking for his next job at County  ;)


I think County were offering free entry passes for the unemployed-Jolly saving his for next season.
Posted by: FishOutOfWater, April 29, 2019, 5:39pm; Reply: 23
Quoted from pen penfras


Do any other football club owners come out and do this? I can't think of another club where the owner has said the club is up for sale and I want x amount for it. Maybe the clubs in financial ruin that get sold for £1, but that's only because the guy selling has far more invested in loans and wants them back and the sale of the club is to find somebody who guarantees the payback of the loans...

Even if Fenty does come out and say how much he wants, it'll only be used as something else to beat him with. I thought it was common knowledge that he wants his money back, so that's not a difficult number to work out.

As for Hurst, what a bitter little man he is. He was given a budget and had to stick to it, what use is complaining about it years later? I was under the impression that we lost money the first couple of years under Hurst, we certainly didn't make much. Where is the rest of the money that he should have had coming from?


And there was I, under the impression that there wasn’t any money to be lost? ;)


https://youtu.be/otwGjlNonQw
Posted by: Rob_in_Grimsby, April 29, 2019, 6:28pm; Reply: 24
Quoted from pen penfras


Do any other football club owners come out and do this? I can't think of another club where the owner has said the club is up for sale and I want x amount for it. Maybe the clubs in financial ruin that get sold for £1, but that's only because the guy selling has far more invested in loans and wants them back and the sale of the club is to find somebody who guarantees the payback of the loans...

Even if Fenty does come out and say how much he wants, it'll only be used as something else to beat him with. I thought it was common knowledge that he wants his money back, so that's not a difficult number to work out.

As for Hurst, what a bitter little man he is. He was given a budget and had to stick to it, what use is complaining about it years later? I was under the impression that we lost money the first couple of years under Hurst, we certainly didn't make much. Where is the rest of the money that he should have had coming from?


It is harder than you think as there are a few issues to any new owner and not all are to do with JF
As GTFC is a PLC there are rules around buying blocks of shares so if any new owner wanted to buy the club he would have to make every shareholder an offer to buy their shares not just JF's shares,
JF only owns about 40% share holding and any new owner would possible want more say 51%, this means MP or the Mullins who also own large blocks of shares could demand the new owner to buy theirs as well  In real terms to price could be 1 mil or up to 2.5 mil depending on who wanted to sell.
On top of this there are loans by directors, if the new owner was to pay off JF partly or in full then others who have loans in the club would also ask for tier money back again a far smaller sum but still a cost to the new owner.
The new owner in theory could just buy JF out of his shares for about 1 Mil and accept JF loans stay on the books as a loan to be paid back in the future if affordable as per the rules of the club charter and thats it but on the other hand the price worst case could be over 4 Mil
Posted by: ska face, April 29, 2019, 6:57pm; Reply: 25
Quoted Text
The new owner in theory could just buy JF out of his shares for about 1 Mil and accept JF loans stay on the books as a loan to be paid back in the future if affordable as per the rules of the club charter and thats it but on the other hand the price worst case could be over 4 Mil


This is the problem with Fenty and the continual ambiguity around his loans. There’s nothing in black & white anywhere about repayment agreements and conditions for repayment, and the club have for years operated in this grey area where Fenty might decide to take some money back, might not, depending on what HE decides is a suitable financial position for the club to do so.

This means that while the rest of us have suffered through the last two years of watching utter garbage, he’s been happy to take £200,000-a-year back out of the club and out of the overall budget and into his pocket. The football’s crap, the ground’s falling to pieces, the ticket office are storing details in an exercise book, the SLO has about 3 other jobs and we’re charging people to be Mighty Mariner, but we’ve probably got just about enough to stay up so that’ll do for the plebs.

It also means there’s no real motivation to increase turnover and pay the loans off quicker. We could tick over again, same money coming in from STs and the league and he might decide to take it out again. If not, he doesn’t lose anything, it’s still sat there on the balance sheet and we can have another look in 12 months. Or he could sit there waiting for a millionaire to lose his mind and buy the club, meaning he might get the whole lot back in one fell swoop without doing anything for it.

A more suitable way of managing the situation would be agreeing a repayment schedule based on performance/profit on a sliding scale over a set threshold. This should be formally agreed by the board & The Trust and plainly outlined in black and white in the accounts.
Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, April 29, 2019, 7:10pm; Reply: 26
Quoted from ska face


This is the problem with Fenty and the continual ambiguity around his loans. There’s nothing in black & white anywhere about repayment agreements and conditions for repayment, and the club have for years operated in this grey area where Fenty might decide to take some money back, might not, depending on what HE decides is a suitable financial position for the club to do so.

This means that while the rest of us have suffered through the last two years of watching utter garbage, he’s been happy to take £200,000-a-year back out of the club and out of the overall budget and into his pocket. The football’s crap, the ground’s falling to pieces, the ticket office are storing details in an exercise book, the SLO has about 3 other jobs and we’re charging people to be Mighty Mariner, but we’ve probably got just about enough to stay up so that’ll do for the plebs.

It also means there’s no real motivation to increase turnover and pay the loans off quicker. We could tick over again, same money coming in from STs and the league and he might decide to take it out again. If not, he doesn’t lose anything, it’s still sat there on the balance sheet and we can have another look in 12 months. Or he could sit there waiting for a millionaire to lose his mind and buy the club, meaning he might get the whole lot back in one fell swoop without doing anything for it.

A more suitable way of managing the situation would be agreeing a repayment schedule based on performance/profit on a sliding scale over a set threshold. This should be formally agreed by the board & The Trust and plainly outlined in black and white in the accounts.


Quite. I have a grudging respect for JF in the way he has a vice like hold on the club, whilst in public declaring the loans are benign. The only thing benign about them is that, because he is a fan he is not calling them in whilst the club cannot afford to pay them. In every other respect they are certainly not benign as they are an important part of the vice-like grip, and will put off potential takeovers.

There has been many discussions on here whether he even deserves any of the loans back, bearing in mind the millions he has cost the club over the years, but we are where we are and there seems no way out. A reduced playing budget due to lower season ticket sales could be the last straw.
Posted by: Rodley Mariner, April 29, 2019, 7:12pm; Reply: 27
What a great offer that is for a new owner - buy this football club for £1million. It's been run into the ground, has virtually no assets and an alienated fanbase. If you are innovative, engaging and hardworking you might be able to turn it round and make it successful once again. In which case you'll have to then pay more money to the bloke you bought it off.
Posted by: ska face, April 29, 2019, 7:23pm; Reply: 28
Quoted from Rodley Mariner
What a great offer that is for a new owner - buy this football club for £1million. It's been run into the ground, has virtually no assets and an alienated fanbase. If you are innovative, engaging and hardworking you might be able to turn it round and make it successful once again. In which case you'll have to then pay more money to the bloke you bought it off.


This is assuming Fenty remains at the helm. I wouldn’t give him the steam off my urine personally, but let’s be pragmatic as I don’t think there’s anyone waiting in the wings to take over. If he wants his money back he should have to work for it.
Posted by: Rodley Mariner, April 29, 2019, 7:50pm; Reply: 29
Quoted from ska face


This is assuming Fenty remains at the helm. I wouldn’t give him the steam off my urine personally, but let’s be pragmatic as I don’t think there’s anyone waiting in the wings to take over. If he wants his money back he should have to work for it.


Apologies as should have quoted Rob_in_Grimsby as it was his suggestion I was really responding to. Your suggestion is a decent one but not a chance he'd consider working along the lines of being accountable for the performance of the club under him.
Posted by: Rob_in_Grimsby, April 29, 2019, 8:09pm; Reply: 30
Quoted from Rodley Mariner
What a great offer that is for a new owner - buy this football club for £1million. It's been run into the ground, has virtually no assets and an alienated fanbase. If you are innovative, engaging and hardworking you might be able to turn it round and make it successful once again. In which case you'll have to then pay more money to the bloke you bought it off.


It's  not an offer more of one of many options a new a potential buyer would have.  
If a new owner was to be found I would think at that point a figure for the loans and shares as one would be negotiated and would be less than the combined total in return for JF walking away and having no ties to the running of the club.
Posted by: Bigdog, April 29, 2019, 8:11pm; Reply: 31
Quoted from Rob_in_Grimsby


It is harder than you think as there are a few issues to any new owner and not all are to do with JF
As GTFC is a PLC there are rules around buying blocks of shares so if any new owner wanted to buy the club he would have to make every shareholder an offer to buy their shares not just JF's shares,
JF only owns about 40% share holding and any new owner would possible want more say 51%, this means MP or the Mullins who also own large blocks of shares could demand the new owner to buy theirs as well  In real terms to price could be 1 mil or up to 2.5 mil depending on who wanted to sell.
On top of this there are loans by directors, if the new owner was to pay off JF partly or in full then others who have loans in the club would also ask for tier money back again a far smaller sum but still a cost to the new owner.
The new owner in theory could just buy JF out of his shares for about 1 Mil and accept JF loans stay on the books as a loan to be paid back in the future if affordable as per the rules of the club charter and thats it but on the other hand the price worst case could be over 4 Mil


Good post Rob.

And there it is in a nutshell.. to gain full control of GTFC will cost either 4 mill upfront or 4 mill eventually, and the only asset is the ground at 0.5 mill. On top of that there could be hefty bills in the pipeline to keep BP even up to its current poor standard let alone make any improvements, redundancy costs if the new owner wanted to have a clear out of staff to put his own stamp on things, costs to drag the club up to the digital 21st century and then there's the funding for a new stadium. When you look at it this way, has JF actually been a competent owner of the club like some claim? It's alright saying the books have been balanced profit and loss wise year on year but look at the cost to falling asset value on the balance sheet, the run down nature of everything at the club, the growing apathy or disinterest of the customer base and most of all the product on the pitch..

Bargain basement run down football club for sale at a top dollar price, unless as you say, JF will have to compromise and take a much lower offer in order to walk away..
Posted by: KingstonMariner, April 29, 2019, 11:51pm; Reply: 32
Quoted from Bigdog


Good post Rob.

And there it is in a nutshell.. to gain full control of GTFC will cost either 4 mill upfront or 4 mill eventually, and the only asset is the ground at 0.5 mill. On top of that there could be hefty bills in the pipeline to keep BP even up to its current poor standard let alone make any improvements, redundancy costs if the new owner wanted to have a clear out of staff to put his own stamp on things, costs to drag the club up to the digital 21st century and then there's the funding for a new stadium. When you look at it this way, has JF actually been a competent owner of the club like some claim? It's alright saying the books have been balanced profit and loss wise year on year but look at the cost to falling asset value on the balance sheet, the run down nature of everything at the club, the growing apathy or disinterest of the customer base and most of all the product on the pitch..

Bargain basement run down football club for sale at a top dollar price, unless as you say, JF will have to compromise and take a much lower offer in order to walk away..


Which is why people are saying 'name your price'.

Now, no one would really expect someone to do their negotiation in public but as it stands, the full figure looks offputting to anyone. An indication of 'I won't allow my loans to be a stumbling block to genuine parties who want to take over the club' might be a start.

And given that, one previous party has apparently walked away because of the fans' sharholding via the Trust, (in which case I'd applaud the Board for saying no to them), the most logical party for it to pass to IS the Trust if there's someone willing and able to lead it.

The last few seasons have shown that even with pisspoor management the club can wash its face financially and have money left over on a year by year basis (ie a surplus meaning we don't need Mr F's 'financial guarantees' - stick any surplus this year in a rainy day pot). With collective ownership, and reinvogorated leadership, fresh ideas, better communications and marketing and good old fashioned decent treatment of customers, we can grow the income so we have a sustainable and competitive budget. Provided we haven't got to pay for someone's previous mistakes.
Posted by: 1mickylyons, April 30, 2019, 7:27am; Reply: 33
Quoted from KingstonMariner


Which is why people are saying 'name your price'.

Now, no one would really expect someone to do their negotiation in public but as it stands, the full figure looks offputting to anyone. An indication of 'I won't allow my loans to be a stumbling block to genuine parties who want to take over the club' might be a start.

And given that, one previous party has apparently walked away because of the fans' sharholding via the Trust, (in which case I'd applaud the Board for saying no to them), the most logical party for it to pass to IS the Trust if there's someone willing and able to lead it.

The last few seasons have shown that even with pisspoor management the club can wash its face financially and have money left over on a year by year basis (ie a surplus meaning we don't need Mr F's 'financial guarantees' - stick any surplus this year in a rainy day pot). With collective ownership, and reinvogorated leadership, fresh ideas, better communications and marketing and good old fashioned decent treatment of customers, we can grow the income so we have a sustainable and competitive budget. Provided we haven't got to pay for someone's previous mistakes.


There are people willing and able to lead the Trust but the Trust don`t want them on board and the GTFC Board certainly wouldn`t want them either so we are stuck with this impasse.
Posted by: Lincoln Mariner 56, April 30, 2019, 8:23am; Reply: 34
Quoted from 1mickylyons


There are people willing and able to lead the Trust but the Trust don`t want them on board and the GTFC Board certainly wouldn`t want them either so we are stuck with this impasse.


Is this a chicken and egg type situation? i.e. do those that are willing to stand on the trust board need to issue their “war cry”/ manifesto to see firstly if that will galvanise increased interest in fans joining the trust to help elect these individuals into positions where they may be able to make a difference.

I let my membership lapse a couple of years ago and would be one of those who would renew if I thought it would help drive change within the running of GTFC.

A lot of water to pass under the bridge before that position could be achieved but if nobody turns the tap on that water will never even start to flow.

Posted by: Malta_Mariner_90, April 30, 2019, 9:57am; Reply: 35
Quoted from ska face


but we’ve probably got just about enough to stay up so that’ll do for the plebs.



And the plebs, as usual will prove Fenty right. Allowing the long hot summer with no football to watch whatsoever to trick their minds into thinking that Jolley will somehow be able to build a promotion winning side using the loose change discovered under the burger van next to the main stand.

Consequently purchasing a slightly increased in price season ticket expecting Cardwell to discover his inner first touch and Jolley to research the following in a well known search engine, "crossing", "winger", "Whinger", "wide-man", "obesity epidemic", "Tony Crane". etc. Maybe even "goals".  
Posted by: Gaffer58, April 30, 2019, 10:04am; Reply: 36
Hyperthetically, if GTFC were to go into administration would it mean Mr Fenty probably losing all or only getting say 10p in the pound of his "benign " loan back.
Posted by: Bigdog, April 30, 2019, 12:02pm; Reply: 37
Quoted from 1mickylyons


There are people willing and able to lead the Trust but the Trust don`t want them on board and the GTFC Board certainly wouldn`t want them either so we are stuck with this impasse.


And this is not meant to be criticism in the slightest because they do their best they can with the agenda they are comfortable with, the Mariners Trust will never be the vehicle to effect significant change at the football club ie change of ownership, fan ownership or securing another investor to take JF's place. There isn't the will there and there isn't the manpower there. They do a good enough job running the bars etc but any effort to change the status quo will put the Trust in turmoil and not be welcomed by the club as proved before when others have wanted to go another way. They help the club and the current board because between them it's the best thing they can do as a group as it stands and probably should be left that way. I joined the Trust a year last January. Since then I've not received confirmation of me joining, proof of payment, an introduction to the Trust, any newsletter or a request to renew this January so how could they be trusted to run a big campaign for fan ownership or hunting for investment? That would have to be a newly formed group with a crystal clear and simple agenda to buy into ..
Posted by: Mariner_09, April 30, 2019, 12:12pm; Reply: 38
At this level, my gut feeling is that budgets aren’t massively different. Even if we have 16th-17th budget we aren’t massively off having a budget of those 7th-8th. Most teams just pick up a tin and give it a shake and see what comes out. It’s more scientific than that but wages will be similar so a lot of it comes down to luck, ie if the signing of a set of players happen to gel as there isn’t a great deal of quality difference between sides, we could easily have won both games against Lincoln this season had one or two things have go another way for example. If Jolley gets just two or three signings this summer right and they fit in well then we’ll be challenging the top 7, if he gets those wrong then we could easily be in a relegation scrap again.
Posted by: 1mickylyons, April 30, 2019, 12:12pm; Reply: 39
Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56


Is this a chicken and egg type situation? i.e. do those that are willing to stand on the trust board need to issue their “war cry”/ manifesto to see firstly if that will galvanise increased interest in fans joining the trust to help elect these individuals into positions where they may be able to make a difference.

I let my membership lapse a couple of years ago and would be one of those who would renew if I thought it would help drive change within the running of GTFC.

A lot of water to pass under the bridge before that position could be achieved but if nobody turns the tap on that water will never even start to flow.



In my opinion the people who represent and run the MT are all good people who have the best interests of GTFC and it`s supporters at heart BUT that same thing also applies to being the biggest problem with the MT.

Based on my limited dialouge with these people they are more than happy to listen to suggestions and take them to the Club. (I assume warts and all?)

I think it`s at this stage things start to breakdown . Based on my experiences not much seems to materialize and when it does it`s half hearted from the Club and I don`t know if that`s down to delivery from the MT or more what I think personally lack of effort from GTFC?

Are the MT forceful enough in present form to effect the change supporters are calling for within the football club and in the effect the change comes about and goes t1ts up who gets the blame then?

It`s very easy for people like me to sit here all day criticising other people who freely give up vast amounts of there time to try and improve what`s on offer at BP but what am I going to do about it? Well from a personal point of view I have looked at it offered some opinions and offered to get more involved and never heard anything more back so assume I am surplus to requirements on that front . I don`t know why my offers to get involved where not taken up by the MT but I would suggest it`s mostly down to my opinions aired on here ? I don`t take this personally the MT need a strong working relationship with the football club and clearly they and the membership must feel the MT is right as they were elected by the members.

To conclude the MT in my opinion do a hell of a lot of good work for the Club and it`s fans BUT it`s not really the work a lot of people want them to do people like me want them to get bigger and look to bigger things. A lot of things go on in the background and rightly so you can`t just plaster it on sites like this and other social media outlets and hope for the best but since OP the Trusts use of social media seems to have badly waned?

Be nice if Ian or Dave replied to some of this and gave further insight from the inner circle so to speak.
Posted by: KingstonMariner, April 30, 2019, 3:46pm; Reply: 40
Quoted from 1mickylyons


There are people willing and able to lead the Trust but the Trust don`t want them on board and the GTFC Board certainly wouldn`t want them either so we are stuck with this impasse.


His loans are secured against the assets of the club - if the club go into admin he potentially gets the stadium (on pper worth around half his loans). So he's in a better position than other creditors.
Posted by: KingstonMariner, April 30, 2019, 3:48pm; Reply: 41
Quoted from 1mickylyons


In my opinion the people who represent and run the MT are all good people who have the best interests of GTFC and it`s supporters at heart BUT that same thing also applies to being the biggest problem with the MT.

Based on my limited dialouge with these people they are more than happy to listen to suggestions and take them to the Club. (I assume warts and all?)

I think it`s at this stage things start to breakdown . Based on my experiences not much seems to materialize and when it does it`s half hearted from the Club and I don`t know if that`s down to delivery from the MT or more what I think personally lack of effort from GTFC?

Are the MT forceful enough in present form to effect the change supporters are calling for within the football club and in the effect the change comes about and goes t1ts up who gets the blame then?

It`s very easy for people like me to sit here all day criticising other people who freely give up vast amounts of there time to try and improve what`s on offer at BP but what am I going to do about it? Well from a personal point of view I have looked at it offered some opinions and offered to get more involved and never heard anything more back so assume I am surplus to requirements on that front . I don`t know why my offers to get involved where not taken up by the MT but I would suggest it`s mostly down to my opinions aired on here ? I don`t take this personally the MT need a strong working relationship with the football club and clearly they and the membership must feel the MT is right as they were elected by the members.

To conclude the MT in my opinion do a hell of a lot of good work for the Club and it`s fans BUT it`s not really the work a lot of people want them to do people like me want them to get bigger and look to bigger things. A lot of things go on in the background and rightly so you can`t just plaster it on sites like this and other social media outlets and hope for the best but since OP the Trusts use of social media seems to have badly waned?

Be nice if Ian or Dave replied to some of this and gave further insight from the inner circle so to speak.


That's my impression Micky. Good people, done a lot of good work but got their hands full/not willing to push things further.
Posted by: KingstonMariner, April 30, 2019, 3:49pm; Reply: 42
Quoted from Bigdog


And this is not meant to be criticism in the slightest because they do their best they can with the agenda they are comfortable with, the Mariners Trust will never be the vehicle to effect significant change at the football club ie change of ownership, fan ownership or securing another investor to take JF's place. There isn't the will there and there isn't the manpower there. They do a good enough job running the bars etc but any effort to change the status quo will put the Trust in turmoil and not be welcomed by the club as proved before when others have wanted to go another way. They help the club and the current board because between them it's the best thing they can do as a group as it stands and probably should be left that way. I joined the Trust a year last January. Since then I've not received confirmation of me joining, proof of payment, an introduction to the Trust, any newsletter or a request to renew this January so how could they be trusted to run a big campaign for fan ownership or hunting for investment? That would have to be a newly formed group with a crystal clear and simple agenda to buy into ..


Well there's one answer to that. If more people who had a more radical view got involved things could change.
Posted by: KingstonMariner, April 30, 2019, 3:51pm; Reply: 43
Quoted from Gaffer58
Hyperthetically, if GTFC were to go into administration would it mean Mr Fenty probably losing all or only getting say 10p in the pound of his "benign " loan back.


His loans are secured against the assets of the club - if the club go into admin he potentially gets the stadium (on pper worth around half his loans). So he's in a better position than other creditors.

Posted by: KingstonMariner, April 30, 2019, 3:53pm; Reply: 44
Quoted from 1mickylyons


There are people willing and able to lead the Trust but the Trust don`t want them on board and the GTFC Board certainly wouldn`t want them either so we are stuck with this impasse.


Who and when did the Trust tell them they're not wanted?

If there are people willing to stand as members of the Trust Board, the other Trust board members have no right to reject them if they stand for election. It's up to the members. Different matter if it's about being co-opted.

I remember Bax making vague comments but we never got the full picture.
Posted by: 1mickylyons, May 1, 2019, 6:49am; Reply: 45
Quoted from KingstonMariner


Who and when did the Trust tell them they're not wanted?

If there are people willing to stand as members of the Trust Board, the other Trust board members have no right to reject them if they stand for election. It's up to the members. Different matter if it's about being co-opted.

I remember Bax making vague comments but we never got the full picture.


The Trust never said they`re not wanted but they have had a lot of offers of help that they have never taken up from various quarters for whatever reason ? Then 2 of the people on the Trusts top table are what I would describe as dubious in terms of wanting/affecting change but the MT would argue have great knowledge of certain GTFC practices over many years so that makes them invaluable to the MT. My point here is 2 sides to every argument and no way I can call the MT wrong in their assessment of things BUT it`s not what I want nor many of the people I have gone to football with for 40 year`s . A lot of people think the MT are the answer to the Clubs problems sadly at present I am not one of them . I hope that view changes and I can at least respect the work these guys do at present even if the direction of some of the work frustrates me.UTM
Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, May 1, 2019, 9:41am; Reply: 46
Quoted from 1mickylyons


In my opinion the people who represent and run the MT are all good people who have the best interests of GTFC and it`s supporters at heart BUT that same thing also applies to being the biggest problem with the MT.

Based on my limited dialouge with these people they are more than happy to listen to suggestions and take them to the Club. (I assume warts and all?)

I think it`s at this stage things start to breakdown . Based on my experiences not much seems to materialize and when it does it`s half hearted from the Club and I don`t know if that`s down to delivery from the MT or more what I think personally lack of effort from GTFC?

Are the MT forceful enough in present form to effect the change supporters are calling for within the football club and in the effect the change comes about and goes t1ts up who gets the blame then?

It`s very easy for people like me to sit here all day criticising other people who freely give up vast amounts of there time to try and improve what`s on offer at BP but what am I going to do about it? Well from a personal point of view I have looked at it offered some opinions and offered to get more involved and never heard anything more back so assume I am surplus to requirements on that front . I don`t know why my offers to get involved where not taken up by the MT but I would suggest it`s mostly down to my opinions aired on here ? I don`t take this personally the MT need a strong working relationship with the football club and clearly they and the membership must feel the MT is right as they were elected by the members.

To conclude the MT in my opinion do a hell of a lot of good work for the Club and it`s fans BUT it`s not really the work a lot of people want them to do people like me want them to get bigger and look to bigger things. A lot of things go on in the background and rightly so you can`t just plaster it on sites like this and other social media outlets and hope for the best but since OP the Trusts use of social media seems to have badly waned?

Be nice if Ian or Dave replied to some of this and gave further insight from the inner circle so to speak.


Joh Fenty rules supreme. Surely we know that by now? There is no way on this earth he will listen to people, Trust or no Trust, that doesn't have the monetary clout.
Posted by: KingstonMariner, May 1, 2019, 10:07am; Reply: 47
Quoted from 1mickylyons


The Trust never said they`re not wanted but they have had a lot of offers of help that they have never taken up from various quarters for whatever reason ? Then 2 of the people on the Trusts top table are what I would describe as dubious in terms of wanting/affecting change but the MT would argue have great knowledge of certain GTFC practices over many years so that makes them invaluable to the MT. My point here is 2 sides to every argument and no way I can call the MT wrong in their assessment of things BUT it`s not what I want nor many of the people I have gone to football with for 40 year`s . A lot of people think the MT are the answer to the Clubs problems sadly at present I am not one of them . I hope that view changes and I can at least respect the work these guys do at present even if the direction of some of the work frustrates me.UTM


But surely if people came forward to stand for election to the Trust board things can be put to the test.

I suspect I know who the two people on the top table are. One of them comes across as a right snarky member.
Posted by: The Old Codger, May 1, 2019, 10:33am; Reply: 48
Quoted from KingstonMariner


But surely if people came forward to stand for election to the Trust board things can be put to the test.

I suspect I know who the two people on the top table are. One of them comes across as a right snarky member.


Comments such as ‘the Fishy brigade’ and ‘keyboard warriors ‘ don’t do them any favours. Add the simple fact that one man can still do whatever he wants, then it’s not the most appealing attraction.
Posted by: 1mickylyons, May 1, 2019, 11:13am; Reply: 49
Quoted from The Old Codger


Comments such as ‘the Fishy brigade’ and ‘keyboard warriors ‘ don’t do them any favours. Add the simple fact that one man can still do whatever he wants, then it’s not the most appealing attraction.


Exactly this and worryingly ALL the MT laughed along as if The Fishy brigade are nothing but trouble I think these folk are generally described on here Happy Clappers :) . Whilst a degree of truth in that they should also realise perhaps the reason for all the agrro stemming from The Fishy is YES that`s where a huge hardcore of the Club`s most vociferous and critical fan`s hang out  BUT only because they care deeply about GTFC. Mr Fenty, shutup and co won`t like us because they can`t control what we think or write but clearly they feel the need to come on here and sift through posts to gauge the mood . Now why is that? I would think because this is THE place where you get a good cross section of supporters views . The balance of posts at times is a bit of a nightmare but on the odd occassion we have some positivity that`s also reflected in the posts  here .
Posted by: SomeSanity, May 1, 2019, 12:02pm; Reply: 50
Mariners Trust don’t really offer anything at the moment.

The seat on the board is about as much use as chocolate teapot. Yes one man one vote but when everyone votes the same way as one person regardless of anything else.

Fenty is a smart man.. having the trust and their seat essentially silences them. Because they won’t want to anything to upset the apple cart.

If the trust are in that position and unable to do anything, does this make them part of the problem?
Joining the trust board appealed to me once upon a time, but it looks clear to me that my views on GTFC are drastically different to the establishment and their stable.
Posted by: The Old Codger, May 1, 2019, 12:38pm; Reply: 51
Quoted from 1mickylyons


Exactly this and worryingly ALL the MT laughed along as if The Fishy brigade are nothing but trouble I think these folk are generally described on here Happy Clappers :) . Whilst a degree of truth in that they should also realise perhaps the reason for all the agrro stemming from The Fishy is YES that`s where a huge hardcore of the Club`s most vociferous and critical fan`s hang out  BUT only because they care deeply about GTFC. Mr Fenty, shutup and co won`t like us because they can`t control what we think or write but clearly they feel the need to come on here and sift through posts to gauge the mood . Now why is that? I would think because this is THE place where you get a good cross section of supporters views . The balance of posts at times is a bit of a nightmare but on the odd occassion we have some positivity that`s also reflected in the posts  here .


As I stated to Pen Penfras on the 10 years ago thread, I don’t consider JF to be either evil, selfish or a shithouse. However, that doesn’t mean I consider the club to be either successful or well-run.

To me, there’s a plethora of supporters whose opinions are well worth listening to and only have the best of intentions for GTFC. Ignoring them or using disparaging terms to describe them only alienates them still further. Surrounding yourself with acolytes is only a short term fix to what is a long term problem.
Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, May 1, 2019, 12:42pm; Reply: 52
Quoted from SomeSanity
Mariners Trust don’t really offer anything at the moment.

The seat on the board is about as much use as chocolate teapot. Yes one man one vote but when everyone votes the same way as one person regardless of anything else.

Fenty is a smart man.. having the trust and their seat essentially silences them. Because they won’t want to anything to upset the apple cart.

If the trust are in that position and unable to do anything, does this make them part of the problem?
Joining the trust board appealed to me once upon a time, but it looks clear to me that my views on GTFC are drastically different to the establishment and their stable.


The Trust is an absolute joke.

A supposedly fans trust like a nodding dog with everything the great man says, and giving him a load of shares to boot.

Surely there must be some well heeled businesmen out there who can come to some sort of deal with Fenty? A sock puppet "fans" trust isn't going to cut it.

To be fair, they are in an impossible postion. The difference between somebody who owns and controls the club lock stock and barrel and a part time well meaning but toothless trust is simply too great.

It would be better to disband the trust and start an outside organisation to orchestrate campaigns for a boycott of the club till Fenty leaves.  
Posted by: psgmariner, May 1, 2019, 12:50pm; Reply: 53


The Trust is an absolute joke.

A supposedly fans trust like a nodding dog with everything the great man says, and giving him a load of shares to boot.

Surely there must be some well heeled businesmen out there who can come to some sort of deal with Fenty? A sock puppet "fans" trust isn't going to cut it.

To be fair, they are in an impossible postion. The difference between somebody who owns and controls the club lock stock and barrel and a part time well meaning but toothless trust is simply too great.

It would be better to disband the trust and start an outside organisation to orchestrate campaigns for a boycott of the club till Fenty leaves.  


It is a fans trust hence why it was put to a member vote. You can argue it was the wrong decision but it was collectively made.
Posted by: KingstonMariner, May 1, 2019, 1:42pm; Reply: 54


The Trust is an absolute joke.

A supposedly fans trust like a nodding dog with everything the great man says, and giving him a load of shares to boot.

Surely there must be some well heeled businesmen out there who can come to some sort of deal with Fenty? A sock puppet "fans" trust isn't going to cut it.

To be fair, they are in an impossible postion. The difference between somebody who owns and controls the club lock stock and barrel and a part time well meaning but toothless trust is simply too great.

It would be better to disband the trust and start an outside organisation to orchestrate campaigns for a boycott of the club till Fenty leaves.  


Well it’s not going to vote itself into non-existence is it. And whether or not the Trust is there is irrelevant if there is an outside organisation campaigning for a boycott.

Then suppose the campaign is successful, what then? Who takes over? We really would be at the mercy of anybody who can wave a big enough cheque.

Who looks after the supporters’ interests (and the club’s) in those circumstances? It certainly won’t be the FA or the League who have shown themselves unfit to run things time and again ).

So you need some sort of organisation that has structures and rules in place to ensure that supporters’ interests are taken care of. We’ve got one of those already! It just needs more people to join and get involved. To change the current conservative (small C) approach to something bolder.
Posted by: malkamalka, May 1, 2019, 4:24pm; Reply: 55
Didn't the previous Owners of Gainsborough put in 5 million, and it lasted 4 years??

How much did they advance in footballing terms? Where are they now compared to when those owners arrived/left? Look at Boston?

It's not about how much money you have, it's how you spend it.

I think any potential owner(s) need a minimum of £10 million, even accounting for JF "gifting" some of his loans.

Even assuming you start with a clean sheet, you need enough money to run the club for the first season; enough money to fund new players; enough money to develop/redevelop the stadium. PLUS any guarantees that the EFL require regarding solvency AFTER the first season.

If we can raise £10 million in crowdfunding for a lowly League Two football club, perhaps we should be running the country.
Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, May 1, 2019, 4:45pm; Reply: 56
Quoted from malkamalka
Didn't the previous Owners of Gainsborough put in 5 million, and it lasted 4 years??

How much did they advance in footballing terms? Where are they now compared to when those owners arrived/left? Look at Boston?

It's not about how much money you have, it's how you spend it.

I think any potential owner(s) need a minimum of £10 million, even accounting for JF "gifting" some of his loans.

Even assuming you start with a clean sheet, you need enough money to run the club for the first season; enough money to fund new players; enough money to develop/redevelop the stadium. PLUS any guarantees that the EFL require regarding solvency AFTER the first season.

If we can raise £10 million in crowdfunding for a lowly League Two football club, perhaps we should be running the country.


Gainsborough dont have the fan base, or potential fan base though do they? If it is to be believed on here, our club is run on fans season ticket money and other forms of secondary  income, but not directly from the board members.*

If there was anyone else running the football club, with exactly the same income as now then things would look a great deal brighter. A little bit of vision, a battle cry to all Town fans to unite behind a new board and we could do much better.

The point is that this current board is completely unable to change tack; they are well-meaning no doubt, but they don't have any go in them, or any further investment it seems.

Nobody is going to come up with 10 million, but a modest amount would go a long way, assuming we can ever be rid of the present board.

*unless anybody knows differently.
Posted by: Rik e B, May 1, 2019, 4:57pm; Reply: 57
To be fair to the trust didn't Fenty give a sinister ultimatum and have them/us all over a barrel?
Posted by: ska face, May 1, 2019, 5:10pm; Reply: 58
Why do people make out like the fans are asking the world of Fenty & his mates? Some passion, a vision, a bit of professionalism and some fresh ideas is all people want.
Posted by: KingstonMariner, May 1, 2019, 8:14pm; Reply: 59
Quoted from Rik e B
To be fair to the trust didn't Fenty give a sinister ultimatum and have them/us all over a barrel?


Well yes, but that still doesn't excuse the decision (board and members who voted for it). The fundamental question was 'would John Fenty want to be known for the club's collapse in those circumstances'. His bluff should have been called. Worst case scenario is the club would have gone into admin, been reformed and charging through the non-league pyramid (we'd be 6/7 years on in that adventure now) and he'd have been the most unpopuar person in NEL and probably not a councillor.
Posted by: jamesgtfc, May 1, 2019, 10:30pm; Reply: 60
Quoted from malkamalka
Didn't the previous Owners of Gainsborough put in 5 million, and it lasted 4 years??

How much did they advance in footballing terms? Where are they now compared to when those owners arrived/left? Look at Boston?

It's not about how much money you have, it's how you spend it.

I think any potential owner(s) need a minimum of £10 million, even accounting for JF "gifting" some of his loans.

Even assuming you start with a clean sheet, you need enough money to run the club for the first season; enough money to fund new players; enough money to develop/redevelop the stadium. PLUS any guarantees that the EFL require regarding solvency AFTER the first season.

If we can raise £10 million in crowdfunding for a lowly League Two football club, perhaps we should be running the country.


And that chairman you refer to was a certain Mr Swann who spat his dummy out when he couldn't own the ground.

As I understand it Fenty is essentially a guarantor for the overdraft facility ensuring the bank are guaranteed their money and I believe the board have to make up the shortfall should income be lower than budgeted (lower attendances and merchandising). I imagine other than guaranteed prize money, any money received from winning cup games is additional money. It would be financial suicide to budget for a cup run.
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