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Quoted from Meza

Interesting.

"One more sees the exit if the major shareholder". So that means he will leave once he knows we are safe?

I interpreted it to mean that the "new era zillionaires" (whomsoever they may be...if they exist) would step in once they
were assured of our L2 status - it wasn't so long ago we were all looking down the table rather than up.

As several posters have commented: we do read a lot of rumours here on the Fishy...which usually turn out to be BS.
Would be happy if this one were true, but for me gets filed in the "I'll believe it when I see it" folder.

I heard that bloke who currently owns Charlton is interested if he can sell Charlton first, hes got loadsa money!

No way do we want the Charlton bloke, no betteroff than the Oystons from Blackpool.

Quoted from Gaffer58

No way do we want the Charlton bloke, no betteroff than the Oystons from Blackpool.

You're too easy!

According to a cod almighty thread on twitter, there's allegedly a deal on the table which includes some funding for a Freeman street stadium. The obstacle is allegedly a major shareholder. Allegedly.

We've been here so many times before. I won't be holding my breath.

The Freeman Street stadium went with the final pint of a certain person

Quoted from marinerdazza

According to a cod almighty thread on twitter, there's allegedly a deal on the table which includes some funding for a Freeman street stadium. The obstacle is allegedly a major shareholder. Allegedly.

We've been here so many times before. I won't be holding my breath.

I don’t do twitter but can’t see it on the CA Twitter thing. Have you got a link you can share?

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I don’t do twitter but can’t see it on the CA Twitter thing. Have you got a link you can share?

Try this.

https://twitter.com/codalmighty/status/1106169965718192128?s=21

Quoted from golfer

The Freeman Street stadium went with the final pint of a certain person

Are you saying we have hit a brick wall ?😉

Quoted from marinerdazza

Try this.

https://twitter.com/codalmighty/status/1106169965718192128?s=21

Errr that just refers to the original article I posted the link to. I thought you meant there was more about the rumours on Twitter itself.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Errr that just refers to the original article I posted the link to. I thought you meant there was more about the rumours on Twitter itself.

Don't click on the blue link to the CA article, click elsewhere on the white background and it will open up a Twitter thread. See Baz Whittleton's tweet. Big Town fan and not known as a bullshitter..

Quoted from Bigdog

Don't click on the blue link to the CA article, click elsewhere on the white background and it will open up a Twitter thread. See Baz Whittleton's tweet. Big Town fan and not known as a bullshitter..

Ta. This bloody modern technology.

Doesn't really say a lot more though, like who or where the money is coming from. 'Here's a snippet, that's all, I'm off on the pish'. Teaser!

PS, when I read the word's 'John Shelton' I genuinely thought he was referring to John Shuttleworth.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

PS, when I read the word's 'John Shelton' I genuinely thought he was referring to John Shuttleworth.

Easy mistake to make

[img]https://i2-prod.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/article848785.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200/mattdeangrimsby.jpg[/img] [img]https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/Pictures/2015/3/11/1426076267557/John-Shuttleworth-009.jpg?width=700&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=d9b8e6bc10f7676f681fc2e872aa2f99[/img]

Michael s*****r ......investment banker friend of the jolleys
50 points on the board and a statement to be released once secure.
Good bye a certain some one....
Hodgson arcitects..... freemo.....development.....big change.
I'm just a messenger..... I dont like being shot.
#waitnsee
UTM

Quoted from MidnightMariner

Michael s*****r ......investment banker friend of the jolleys
50 points on the board and a statement to be released once secure.
Good bye a certain some one....
Hodgson arcitects..... freemo.....development.....big change.
I'm just a messenger..... I dont like being shot.
#waitnsee
UTM

Michael Shitter?

Quoted from MidnightMariner

Michael s*****r ......investment banker friend of the jolleys
50 points on the board and a statement to be released once secure.
Good bye a certain some one....
Hodgson arcitects..... freemo.....development.....big change.
I'm just a messenger..... I dont like being shot.
#waitnsee
UTM

🙄 not another rumour tagged onto the 50 point milestone 😆

TBF We have just really treadled water this season on that budget Jolley has managed to stabilise the ship for now.

Fenty is the main investor and you can not see him investing more than is needed and did not the other investors put in less this season??

Whilst we wait to see what happens with the Freeman St venture I feel this is the last chance saloon as far as any future major investment is concerned.

Quoted from Mrs Doyle

TBF We have just really treadled water this season on that budget Jolley has managed to stabilise the ship for now.

Fenty is the main investor and you can not see him investing more than is needed and did not the other investors put in less this season??

Whilst we wait to see what happens with the Freeman St venture I feel this is the last chance saloon as far as any future major investment is concerned.

How much as he invested this season?

Quoted from arryarryarry

Ho much as he invested this season?

Minus £200,000

Which tells me he is going soon.

As rumours go this is a lovely one. Such a great scenario, potentially, it allows me to dream and I just don't want it to be debunked.
Also 'treadled' is a great word.

Quoted from arryarryarry

How much as he invested this season?

The question is ' how much has he put into the club to keep it afloat '? Before I'm accused of being. '
"up JF's bottom " I think he should go but nobody has been prepared to step up to the plate (and I don't think Mike Parker was that committed otherwise he would have stood up to JF when the situation arose). It seems to me that a lot of "fans " on this site want some kind of "cash cow " on the board so they can watch top quality football as long as they don't have to pay for it.

Quoted from Davec

Michael Shitter?

Close.... you only 2 letters out 😉

Quoted from rancido

The question is ' how much has he put into the club to keep it afloat '? Before I'm accused of being. '
"up JF's bottom " I think he should go but nobody has been prepared to step up to the plate (and I don't think Mike Parker was that committed otherwise he would have stood up to JF when the situation arose). It seems to me that a lot of "fans " on this site want some kind of "cash cow " on the board so they can watch top quality football as long as they don't have to pay for it.

My comment was in reply to :-

you can not see him investing more than is needed

So what I was asking is is he actually investing in the club now.

Quoted from arryarryarry

My comment was in reply to :-

you can not see him investing more than is needed

So what I was asking is is he actually investing in the club now.

For felicitations sake we are always bitching about how much he is already owed by the club and how it is preventing a sale. If he invests even more that only makes it worse.

We are never going to get some total idiot with more money than sense who is prepared to just throw money away on GTFC, whoever takes over will be no different to Fenty (other than a bit richer perhaps)

Make your mind up please!

Quoted from Ipswin

For felicitations sake we are always bitching about how much he is already owed by the club and how it is preventing a sale. If he invests even more that only makes it worse.

We are never going to get some total idiot with more money than sense who is prepared to just throw money away on GTFC, whoever takes over will be no different to Fenty (other than a bit richer perhaps)

Make your mind up please!

Are you saying that anyone who invests in GTFC is an idiot and whoever owns the club is just " throwing their money away "?

Quoted from rancido

The question is ' how much has he put into the club to keep it afloat '? Before I'm accused of being. '
"up JF's bottom " I think he should go but nobody has been prepared to step up to the plate (and I don't think Mike Parker was that committed otherwise he would have stood up to JF when the situation arose). It seems to me that a lot of "fans " on this site want some kind of "cash cow " on the board so they can watch top quality football as long as they don't have to pay for it.

The word “invested” does not describe what most board members of L2 clubs do when they put money in.

“Invested” tends to suggest you get a return on your money which for L2 clubs is highly unlikely.

Why would we see a change of ownership at 50 points as even though we’re a couple short we’re not going down. New owners would prefer as long as possible to prep for next season.

Bit naughty by CAM in my view but then again you have to keep readers interested.

Quoted from rancido

Are you saying that anyone who invests in GTFC is an idiot and whoever owns the club is just " throwing their money away "?

Errrrr, yes basically and anyone daft enough to invest and then want his money back will be slagged off unmercifully.

Quoted from Ipswin

For felicitations sake we are always bitching about how much he is already owed by the club and how it is preventing a sale. If he invests even more that only makes it worse.

We are never going to get some total idiot with more money than sense who is prepared to just throw money away on GTFC, whoever takes over will be no different to Fenty (other than a bit richer perhaps)

Make your mind up please!

I know you sometimes like to come over as a twit but no need to be a dumb fornicator as well.

I'm not bitching about anything, just asking the question is he actually investing in the club this season or not.

Quoted from Ipswin

Errrrr, yes basically and anyone daft enough to invest and then want his money back will be slagged off unmercifully.

It wasn’t an investment remember it was a “loan” two different things but I do agree with you Ipswin don’t put money into a lower league club and expect it back.

Quoted from arryarryarry

I know you sometimes like to come over as a twit but no need to be a dumb fornicator as well.

I'm not bitching about anything, just asking the question is he actually investing in the club this season or not.

Fenty said himself at the Q+ A the board thought he should take the money out as it might be putting off investors.
John's own words.
So at that rate John should have his all his money back in ten years.

Quoted from Ipswin

Errrrr, yes basically and anyone daft enough to invest and then want his money back will be slagged off unmercifully.

Well that's made my mind up "I'm not investing-I'm out "

Quoted from chrissy

Fenty said himself at the Q+ A the board thought he should take the money out as it might be putting off investors.
John's own words.
So at that rate John should have his all his money back in ten years.

In reality Marley & Day aren’t going to say anything differently are they?

Maybe we need to relocate to a Town with a 450k+ populalation near a major metropolitan city with public transport infrastructure , no unemployment and a local government that wants to put money into its only local professional sports club.

The Fenty loans don’t help I’m sure but rhe prospect of investing in a club with limited attendance appeal, a decrepit home in a relatively remote deprived location has just as big an impact I’m sure.

Quoted from Ipswin

I heard that bloke who currently owns Charlton is interested if he can sell Charlton first, hes got loadsa money!

May be some truth in this as current director told my mate there is a very interested party that is London based. Second time he has hinted that the club may be sold so we will just have to wait and see, always a bit of intrigue whenever investment in town is the topic of discussion.

Quoted from arryarryarry

I know you sometimes like to come over as a twit but no need to be a dumb fornicator as well.

I'm not bitching about anything, just asking the question is he actually investing in the club this season or not.

You were, as many do, trying score a point yet again against Fenty by suggesting that he hasn't invested any money in the club this season.

As another poster points out the term 'invest' infers at least a repayment if not a profit which is why I said that no one in his right mind is going to 'invest' in Grimsby Town Football Club

Actually he hasn't 'invested' anything at all in the strictest sense of the word over the years but he has supported the club, as an investor would, by putting a lot of money in, not expecting a profit, but always getting criticism when he simply wants repayment

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

May be some truth in this as current director told my mate there is a very interested party that is London based. Second time he has hinted that the club may be sold so we will just have to wait and see, always a bit of intrigue whenever investment in town is the topic of discussion.

No please! I was just taking the urine after hearing him absolutely torn up for arsepaper on Talksport by the former Palace owner (he's Belgium based anyway thank intercourse)

Quoted from Ipswin

No please! I was just taking the urine after hearing him absolutely torn up for arsepaper on Talksport by the former Palace owner (he's Belgium based anyway thank intercourse)

No idea who it is but just told that there is an interested party who wants to invest but would have a “frontman’ in place to carry out Day to Day running. Whether it will happen is anyone’s guess but information is genuine.

Quoted from Ipswin

You were, as many do, trying score a point yet again against Fenty by suggesting that he hasn't invested any money in the club this season.

As another poster points out the term 'invest' infers at least a repayment if not a profit which is why I said that no one in his right mind is going to 'invest' in Grimsby Town Football Club

Actually he hasn't 'invested' anything at all in the strictest sense of the word over the years but he has supported the club, as an investor would, by putting a lot of money in, not expecting a profit, but always getting criticism when he simply wants repayment

Wow,

You’re easily ‘bought ‘ Swin’.
If I buy a copy of your book will you be my mate too ??

Quoted from Civvy at last

Wow,

You’re easily ‘bought ‘ Swin’.
If I buy a copy of your book will you be my mate too ??

ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY, there are some big words in it though, you might struggle

Quoted from Ipswin

You were, as many do, trying score a point yet again against Fenty by suggesting that he hasn't invested any money in the club this season.

As another poster points out the term 'invest' infers at least a repayment if not a profit which is why I said that no one in his right mind is going to 'invest' in Grimsby Town Football Club

Actually he hasn't 'invested' anything at all in the strictest sense of the word over the years but he has supported the club, as an investor would, by putting a lot of money in, not expecting a profit, but always getting criticism when he simply wants repayment

Before JF joined the Board I can't find evidence of any " investor " in GTFC who didn't want his money back.

Quoted from rancido

Before JF joined the Board I can't find evidence of any " investor " in GTFC who didn't want his money back.

Exactly but because Fenty wants his money back he gets a hard time. Yes things have been shite under his leadership but thanks to him the club still exists and is capable of being shite

Quoted from rancido

Before JF joined the Board I can't find evidence of any " investor " in GTFC who didn't want his money back.

No, but there's one who hasn't after he joined the board. Because it's not happened here isn't the point. There's loads of other clubs that have benefitted from investors not wanting their money back which should be a more appropriate yardstick to measure against..

Quoted from Ipswin

Exactly but because Fenty wants his money back he gets a hard time. Yes things have been shite under his leadership but thanks to him the club still exists and is capable of being shite

If we had gone into administration instead like many other clubs have, it could be argued that we may not have fallen so far from grace with better management or someone else stepping up to pick up the reins with the debts written off. On the flip side, we could have fallen further, but let's all not be too happy or grateful about surviving for twenty years..

Quoted from Bigdog

There's loads of other clubs that have benefitted from investors not wanting their money back.

They're not investors then, silly sods with too much money wanting to own a football club as a plaything maybe but certainly not investors

'An investor is any person or other entity (such as a firm or mutual fund) who commits capital with the expectation of receiving financial returns. Investors utilize investments in order to grow their money and/or provide an income during retirement, such as with an annuity.'

Quoted from Ipswin

They're not investors then, silly sods with too much money wanting to own a football club as a plaything maybe but certainly not investors

'An investor is any person or other entity (such as a firm or mutual fund) who commits capital with the expectation of receiving financial returns. Investors utilize investments in order to grow their money and/or provide an income during retirement, such as with an annuity.'

In the strictest meaning of the word, you are correct. But some people invest in football clubs for many reasons other than pecuniary gain, enjoyment, legacy, status, philanthropy, etc etc etc. Still investors if they buy shares..

Quoted from Bigdog

In the strictest meaning of the word, you are correct. But some people invest in football clubs for many reasons other than pecuniary gain, enjoyment, legacy, status, philanthropy, etc etc etc. Still investors if they buy shares..

I wouldn't argue with that but my point was, many posts ago, that the type of person Grimsby Town are looking to attract (and what we were talking about at the beginning) will have to be be a very major money man who wants to invest in the literal sense of the word rather than throwing his money away.

Those wishing to put money in for enjoyment, status and pure love of the club are thin on the ground. We've already got one of those and everyone is complaining about him because he wants his money back (without any profit)

Quoted from Ipswin

You were, as many do, trying score a point yet again against Fenty by suggesting that he hasn't invested any money in the club this season.

As another poster points out the term 'invest' infers at least a repayment if not a profit which is why I said that no one in his right mind is going to 'invest' in Grimsby Town Football Club

Actually he hasn't 'invested' anything at all in the strictest sense of the word over the years but he has supported the club, as an investor would, by putting a lot of money in, not expecting a profit, but always getting criticism when he simply wants repayment

I'm not trying to score any points at all. Most will know I'm no big fan of JF for where he dragged this once great club to but I was replying to a quote from someone who said he will not invest anymore than he has to hence my question how much if any has he invested this season.

I really want to know if he hasn't then is the club currently holding its head above water based on income from attendances, cup bonuses, income from the EFL and others.

Quoted from rancido

Before JF joined the Board I can't find evidence of any " investor " in GTFC who didn't want his money back.

So what you're saying is that you HAVE found evidence that every person who invested in GTFC before Fenty, did want his money back?

Absolute poppycock!

Quoted from arryarryarry

I'm not trying to score any points at all. Most will know I'm no big fan of JF for where he dragged this once great club to but I was replying to a quote from someone who said he will not invest anymore than he has to hence my question how much if any has he invested this season.

I really want to know if he hasn't then is the club currently holding its head above water based on income from attendances, cup bonuses, income from the EFL and others.

In a word, yes.

The slightly longer answer is, 'yes, and in the previous two financial years the club has been able to pay back £400,000 worth of loans to directors.'

PS for the avoidance of doubt, I don't want some rich sugar daddy (or mummy for that matter) to come into GTFC, replace JSF and start splurging cash around in an unsustainable manner. If some kindly soul wanted to donate £2m to pay off the remaining debt, and better still, another £20million to fund Il Stadio del Freemo, in return for the kudos alone, then that's another matter.

Quoted from Bigdog

No, but there's one who hasn't after he joined the board. Because it's not happened here isn't the point.[b] There's loads of other clubs that have benefitted from investors not wanting their money back which should be a more appropriate yardstick to measure against..

[/b

They would be benefactors then and not investors.]

Quoted from KingstonMariner

So what you're saying is that you HAVE found evidence that every person who invested in GTFC before Fenty, did want his money back?

Absolute poppycock!

Maybe the red-crossers can show the evidence they've found of all pre-JSF invetors wanting their money back.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

So what you're saying is that you HAVE found evidence that every person who invested in GTFC before Fenty, did want his money back?

Absolute poppycock!

Read the sentence carefully. I said I haven't found any evidence - full stop. That does not me I have found evidence to the contrary.

I may have got my memory confused over this but I seem to recall that it's not that long ago that a leading local supermarket owner was on the Board and he lent the club a considerable sum of money ( £375,000 allegedly ) . When he left/was deposed from the Board he ( allegedly ) immediately wanted his money back and of course the club did not have that kind of money available. I do believe that part of JF's benign loan was incurred to settle that debt. I'm sure there are some of the older posters on this site who remember that better than me.

As for being " poppycock ) maybe you can name some benefactors , previous to the present regime, who gifted/donated considerable sums of money with no strings and no pay back?

Quoted from rancido

Read the sentence carefully. I said I haven't found any evidence - full stop. That does not me I have found evidence to the contrary.

I may have got my memory confused over this but I seem to recall that it's not that long ago that a leading local supermarket owner was on the Board and he lent the club a considerable sum of money ( £375,000 allegedly ) . When he left/was deposed from the Board he ( allegedly ) immediately wanted his money back and of course the club did not have that kind of money available. I do believe that part of JF's benign loan was incurred to settle that debt. I'm sure there are some of the older posters on this site who remember that better than me.

That is absolutely correct. He had a local solicitor at the ground looking to issue a winding up order. JF was called on the telephone and asked to help which he did.

[quote=166]

Read the sentence carefully. I said I haven't found any evidence - full stop. That does not me I have found evidence to the contrary.

I may have got my memory confused over this but I seem to recall that it's not that long ago that a leading local supermarket owner was on the Board and he lent the club a considerable sum of money ( £375,000 allegedly ) . When he left/was deposed from the Board he ( allegedly ) immediately wanted his money back and of course the club did not have that kind of money available. I do believe that part of JF's benign loan was incurred to settle that debt. I'm sure there are some of the older posters on this site who remember that better than me.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I can confirm the bit about Ramsden wanting his money back when he was voted off, John paid him with his own money as the club did not have any plus an unpaid VAT bill of £800, 000 needed paying and John paid that as well.
There was other things that amounted to over £2 million in all. John has always said the loans are benign and only wanted his money back if the club could afford to give him his interest free loans back.

So we must be welll off now.

Quoted from grimsby pete

[quote=166]

John paid him with his own money as the club did not have any plus an unpaid VAT bill of £800, 000 needed paying and John paid that as well.

Which only goes to show the club was badly run long before Fenty came on board with his loans, it was total shite in fact if they had failed to pay that much VAT

There was absolutely no excuse whatsoever, they had charged the VAT yet had failed to pay it over, no ones fault but those running things at that time. I think there was also an issue with unpaid PAYE too

Say what you like about Fenty's era, he kept the club afloat and has ensured we did not get into such huge debt problems again by running the club accounts-wise (if not football-wise) correctly.

I pray for a day sometime in the very near future when this forum will be full of threads with posters excitedly discussing a bright new dawn for GTFC rather than over-analysing a well-worn past. That's the thing with treading water, you only have a past and a present..

Quoted from rancido

Read the sentence carefully. I said I haven't found any evidence - full stop. That does not me I have found evidence to the contrary.

I may have got my memory confused over this but I seem to recall that it's not that long ago that a leading local supermarket owner was on the Board and he lent the club a considerable sum of money ( £375,000 allegedly ) . When he left/was deposed from the Board he ( allegedly ) immediately wanted his money back and of course the club did not have that kind of money available. I do believe that part of JF's benign loan was incurred to settle that debt. I'm sure there are some of the older posters on this site who remember that better than me.

As for being " poppycock ) maybe you can name some benefactors , previous to the present regime, who gifted/donated considerable sums of money with no strings and no pay back?

The inference of your statement was that there were no previous investors who didn't want the money back. Otherwise why say it?

You can't quote one example where a director wanted his money back and claim that in the 120odd years before John Fenty became a director that there is no evidence of any 'investor' in the club not wanting his money back. One example of someone taking his money back in 140 years is not a very strong case.

If you look right back to the end of the 19th century (see Bob Lincoln's book) where he reports on directors having to make an 'investment' with no expectation of having anything back. Now I can't say that all 'investors' throughout the history of the club have lost money, but you certainly cannot claim the opposite on the basis of Dudley Ramsden wanting his money back.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

The inference of your statement was that there were no previous investors who didn't want the money back. Otherwise why say it?

You can't quote one example where a director wanted his money back and claim that in the 120odd years before John Fenty became a director that there is no evidence of any 'investor' in the club not wanting his money back. One example of someone taking his money back in 140 years is not a very strong case.

If you look right back to the end of the 19th century (see Bob Lincoln's book) where he reports on directors having to make an 'investment' with no expectation of having anything back. Now I can't say that all 'investors' throughout the history of the club have lost money, but you certainly cannot claim the opposite on the basis of Dudley Ramsden wanting his money back.

Even you must realise the difference between those early " investors " trying to get a fledgling organisation going and the club as it is now. You mention the 120 years prior to JF becoming a director , well let me narrow it down a bit. How about the 52 years I've been following town then. Since 1966 to JF's involvement , how many directors or chairmen have been prepared to prop the club up " at their own expense " ?

Quoted from rancido

Even you must realise the difference between those early " investors " trying to get a fledgling organisation going and the club as it is now. You mention the 120 years prior to JF becoming a director , well let me narrow it down a bit. How about the 52 years I've been following town then. Since 1966 to JF's involvement , how many directors or chairmen have been prepared to prop the club up " at their own expense " ?

I go back nearly as far and can only ever remember the club being starved of investment under the likes of Would. Local bookie Mick McGarry had to give the club £500 to keep them going in 1971. The fans (not for the last time) dug into their pockets to get Matt Tees back for a second spell.

Not so sure about the Mullins. But it would have been nice to have kept Mike Parker onboard !!

Quoted from rancido

Even you must realise the difference between those early " investors " trying to get a fledgling organisation going and the club as it is now. You mention the 120 years prior to JF becoming a director , well let me narrow it down a bit. How about the 52 years I've been following town then. Since 1966 to JF's involvement , how many directors or chairmen have been prepared to prop the club up " at their own expense " ?

It's been a long-standing agreement throughout the club's history. And the period in the Lincoln book I'm referring to isn't when the club first started, it was 20 years later in the 1890s and 1900s when we became a professional club owned by a limited company. I bet we made a loss in many of your 52 years. Losses covered by director's guarantees.

Put it the other way round. Who apart from Dudley Ramsden (and John Fenty) has taken money back out? I'm not saying it's wrong to pay directors (or any creditors) back. The pertinent question is who was in control when those losses were run up. You call the shots, you take responsibilty for your decisions. I lend you money with the proviso that you follow my decisions, but when you lose money because of it, I still want my money back.

And I'm certainly not arguing for any rich person to prop the club up. Far from it. We've seen enough examples of where that leads.

Quoted from rancido

Even you must realise the difference between those early " investors " trying to get a fledgling organisation going and the club as it is now. You mention the 120 years prior to JF becoming a director , well let me narrow it down a bit. How about the 52 years I've been following town then. Since 1966 to JF's involvement , how many directors or chairmen have been prepared to prop the club up " at their own expense " ?

Anyway, what's with the 'even you'?

Quoted from barralad

I go back nearly as far and can only ever remember the club being starved of investment under the likes of Would. Local bookie Mick McGarry had to give the club £500 to keep them going in 1971. The fans (not for the last time) dug into their pockets to get Matt Tees back for a second spell.

Add to that the fans support for the building of the Pontoon, the financing of the Joe Waters' transfer fee, Ivano Bonnetti ditto, Op.Promotion. None of these benefactors wanted their money back at any stage.

Rancido's point (to paraphrase) was that no one can blame John Fenty for wanting his money back because no other 'investors' have not asked for their money back. Beyond the well-known case of Dudley Ramsden, we've not seen anyone else take money out of the club. He seems to be saying that there's a precedent for something because there had been no previous precedents for the opposite happening.

FFS benefactors do not want their money back, that's why they are called benefactors

Investors however do expect their money back, with a profit

Sadly we are, for different reasons, unlikely to attract either

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Add to that the fans support for the building of the Pontoon, the financing of the Joe Waters' transfer fee, Ivano Bonnetti ditto, Op.Promotion. None of these benefactors wanted their money back at any stage.

Rancido's point (to paraphrase) was that no one can blame John Fenty for wanting his money back because no other 'investors' have not asked for their money back. Beyond the well-known case of Dudley Ramsden, we've not seen anyone else take money out of the club. He seems to be saying that there's a precedent for something because there had been no previous precedents for the opposite happening.

But that is the point. These are all examples of where the fans have given the cash instead of the Board. There were directors who could have done this but didn't. They would rather have risked the fans money than their own. When times were tough it always seemed to be asset stripping either by selling good players or letting players go for a pittance just to keep the wage bill down. I even seem to recall the club selling the Peaks Lane training ground just to raise a bit of cash and leave us without a training facility rather than the Board gifting the club money or even lending it interest free .

Good job the fans don’t ask or have the opportunity to get their money back eh...

I’d class them as investors. Not only investing time but money. Some life long.

I'm confused what is JF, an investor or benefactor?

He doesn't appear either to me.

As Swin fairly points out investors expect (but here i differ) but more often than not don't get their money back, which essentially how stocks and shares work.

If you make a poor investment decision i.e appointing a manager who gets you relegated, what rational reason do you get for taking your money back when it goes wrong. I can't say well that company I invested in didn't perform as I expected so give me my trade back.

Quoted from Swansea_Mariner

I'm confused what is JF, an investor or benefactor?

He doesn't appear either to me.

As Swin fairly points out investors expect (but here i differ) but more often than not don't get their money back, which essentially how stocks and shares work.

If you make a poor investment decision i.e appointing a manager who gets you relegated, what rational reason do you get for taking your money back when it goes wrong. I can't say well that company I invested in didn't perform as I expected so give me my trade back.

Not only that, what money he has put in has bought him a lot of local recognition. Add to that the ability to showboat in the boardroom, be top man at a distinguished Football League club, with all the opportunity that brings. The fact that he has done sodomist all with it is his fault.

How on earth he can expect his money back is beyond me. That money has been a Godsend to him, or perhaps should have been.

For most of the time he has been in charge it is the fans who have put the money in to keep us afloat, so for basically an initital investment he has been able to sit back and hope for football fortune. It hasn't arrived, due to his mismanagement so now he wants his money back??

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Not only that, what money he has put in has bought him a lot of local recognition. Add to that the ability to showboat in the boardroom, be top man at a distinguished Football League club, with all the opportunity that brings. The fact that he has done sodomist all with it is his fault.

How on earth he can expect his money back is beyond me. That money has been a Godsend to him, or perhaps should have been.

For most of the time he has been in charge it is the fans who have put the money in to keep us afloat, so for basically an initital investment he has been able to sit back and hope for football fortune. It hasn't arrived, due to his mismanagement so now he wants his money back??

So the money JF paid to Ramsden and the £800,000 he paid HMRC ( all incurred prior to his involvement with the club) didn't keep the club afloat? Do you think a whip around from the fans would have raised that amount to keep us afloat?

Quoted from rancido

[/b]

So the money JF paid to Ramsden and the £800,000 he paid HMRC ( all incurred prior to his involvement with the club) didn't keep the club afloat? Do you think a whip around from the fans would have raised that amount to keep us afloat?

It is also worth pointing out that half of Operation Promotion was contributed by Lee Mullen and his wife.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

It is also worth pointing out that half of Operation Promotion was contributed by Lee Mullen and his wife.

They put in 20K, we raised over 100k so they contributed around a fifth of it, not half

Quoted from jamesgtfc

It is also worth pointing out that half of Operation Promotion was contributed by Lee Mullen and his wife.

I'm afraid that is not the case. Their extremely generous donation of £20K made them far and away the biggest single donors but it amounted to slightly less than 20% of the total raised.

Quoted from rancido

[/b]

So the money JF paid to Ramsden and the £800,000 he paid HMRC ( all incurred prior to his involvement with the club) didn't keep the club afloat? Do you think a whip around from the fans would have raised that amount to keep us afloat?

Read it again.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Read it again.

I have . He allowed the situation to exist so the input from the fans could keep the club going. He provided the platform so the club could keep going - £1,175,000 's worth of platform. Do you honestly think if he hadn't put that cash in the club would have survived to be at the level we are now? If the club had been wound up by HMRC and gone into administration we could have easily gone the way of Chester, Darlington and others. Some fans think that administration is a panacea to all the problems and point to other clubs that have come out of it ok but it is a double edged saw and nothing is guaranteed about the outcome.

Quoted from rancido

I have . He allowed the situation to exist so the input from the fans could keep the club going. He provided the platform so the club could keep going - £1,175,000 's worth of platform. Do you honestly think if he hadn't put that cash in the club would have survived to be at the level we are now? If the club had been wound up by HMRC and gone into administration we could have easily gone the way of Chester, Darlington and others. Some fans think that administration is a panacea to all the problems and point to other clubs that have come out of it ok but it is a double edged saw and nothing is guaranteed about the outcome.

My original post says nothing about what you are arguing against.

I specifically mentioned his intial investment (the money that kept us afloat) so I don't see what your point is. My post was about how he has benefited from that initial investment, and it is obviously a fact that since his tenure the fans have provided most of the funds to keep the club going.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

My post was about how he has benefited from that initial investment, and it is obviously a fact that since his tenure the fans have provided most of the funds to keep the club going.

If you mean in respect of gate money, STs and shop sales surely that's how it should be anyway (apart from any transfer profits that is) No club can expect a benefactor to keep chipping in every season. I would also argue that the money he put in was in no sense of the word an investment. He bailed us out or we would have gone under.

Also whether it was an investment or not I totally fail to see how he has benefitted in any way, quite the opposite in fact with all the excrement that is constantly thrown at him.

Quoted from Ipswin

If you mean in respect of gate money, STs and shop sales surely that's how it should be anyway (apart from any transfer profits that is) No club can expect a benefactor to keep chipping in every season. I would also argue that the money he put in was in no sense of the word an investment. He bailed us out or we would have gone under.

Also whether it was an investment or not I totally fail to see how he has benefitted in any way, quite the opposite in fact with all the excrement that is constantly thrown at him.

My post explained the benefits accrued from his initial investment (the money to bail us out)

18 years or whatever it is of complete stagnation on and off the field obviously shows he has neither the money nor clout nor acument to attract any new investment that has moved us on one jot. That is the point I am making - yes we are grateful for the intial money, but he has done nothing since; not only that but despite the benefits of the owner of a football league club as explained in my post, he has the gall to want his money back.

Of course, he has had vehement criticism, but has got off relatively lightly.

18 x £300 = £5,400.. He's saved himself about £5,400 on a season ticket by lending the club a few million pound and spending countless hours of his own time decorating, fixing, building, talking at forums etc... :B

Quoted from lukeo

18 x £300 = £5,400.. He's saved himself about £5,400 on a season ticket by lending the club a few million pound and spending countless hours of his own time decorating, fixing, building, talking at forums etc... :B

Dont forget the interest each year on 2 Mil which he would have earned if it had stayed in his bank plus the interest the club saved on not having to borrow it of a normal lender.

Quoted from Rob_in_Grimsby

Dont forget the interest each year on 2 Mil which he would have earned if it had stayed in his bank plus the interest the club saved on not having to borrow it of a normal lender.

Or the money the club has lost, approximately 3 million pounds for the 6 years in non league alone.

Or the money thrown away at tribunals because don’t understand/follow protocol. Or the sums wasted on dead duck white elephant stadium chases.

I’m being facetious..everyone can go around and interpret events,decisions etc as they see fit. Of course it’ll never get into a position where all agree. Some will radically change their mind after years of online abuse/questioning and go to stoic defence of club hierarchy. Each to their own.

Rather than be an endless debate on the past - should it now be a debate/opinion based on the future??

Ie. Has John Fenty done/gone as far as he can and club needs fresh approach to go forward?

Or should John Fenty carry on longer term with help of others (if such a scenario could work)?

Should the club operate as per now ?

Will the eventual moving into Freemo (again if it ever happens) mean the club is forced to take a new approach??

Quoted from arryarryarry

Or the money the club has lost, approximately 3 million pounds for the 6 years in non league alone.

The club did not loose money whilst in the conference so I presume you mean potential extra earnings which is relative to the costs you pay on wages
Why not go further and say under another chairman we could have been in the Prem so JF cost us 100mil a season

Quoted from Rob_in_Grimsby

Why not go further and say under another chairman we could have been in the Prem so JF cost us 100mil a season

Because we don’t know for certain we would have been in the prem

But I am 100% certain we ACTUALLY were in the conference.

Quoted from Rob_in_Grimsby

The club did not loose money whilst in the conference so I presume you mean potential extra earnings which is relative to the costs you pay on wages
Why not go further and say under another chairman we could have been in the Prem so JF cost us 100mil a season

Understand what you are saying Rob about the accountancy, but even though the club broke even in the Conference, the club could have broken even in League One or Two and fans could have watched better players and better games in front of bigger crowds with better atmospheres against the likes of Bradford, Barnsley, Scunny, Portsmouth etc instead of Hayes & Yeading, Braintree, Chasetown etc. Enjoyment of fans and their pride in their club and the reputation and standing of GTFC has to come into it too. And lets not forget due to FFP rules, the percentage of EFL money not allowed to be spent on playing budget could have been invested in the infrastructure of the club in the "lost years". There's a lot more factors and impacts than just breaking even and cutting cloth accordingly to consider when we dropped out of the league. We surely would have been a lot more attractive to potential investors and breaking even would have been far more fun and far less embarrassing if we were cutting a cloth that included EFL payments of several million in those six years. It was a disaster that can't be offset with boasts of a prudent cost cutting exercise, and god knows how many young kids in the area decided that Grimsby Town wasn't for them and chose Man City, Chelsea etc because Town weren't even a Football League club. Books could be balanced in National League North by reducing playing budget too, but it wouldn't make it right would it?

Roll on a fresh start some time soon for all parties..

can anyone give me a couple of guesstimates please?

a) what our average annual wage bill was in the conference and what it is now
and
b) how much will we have saved by paying up Welsh's contact if we assume he was on £2k p.w.

Quoted from forza ivano

can anyone give me a couple of guesstimates please?

a) what our average annual wage bill was in the conference and what it is now
and
b) how much will we have saved by paying up Welsh's contact if we assume he was on £2k p.w.

Sadly I seem to have lost my copies of the annual accounts. There was a website that you could download them all from but it seems to have disappeared. I'll dig around a bit more.

In any case the wage bill will include non-playing staff.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Sadly I seem to have lost my copies of the annual accounts. There was a website that you could download them all from but it seems to have disappeared. I'll dig around a bit more.

In any case the wage bill will include non-playing staff.

Found em!

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00034760/filing-history

Full filing history.

Quoted from TheRealJohnLewis

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00034760/filing-history

Full filing history.

Fantastic! Right back to 1922.

My spreadsheet is going to be a beast.

Quoted from Rob_in_Grimsby

The club did not loose money whilst in the conference so I presume you mean potential extra earnings which is relative to the costs you pay on wages
Why not go further and say under another chairman we could have been in the Prem so JF cost us 100mil a season

Didn't we lose direct funding from the EFL? and I'm sure that JF said on TV straight after the Burton game that relegation out of the Football League would cost the club £500,000 per season so 6 seasons x £500,000 comes to £3,000,000 by my reckoning but I did go to Hereford School.

Add to that paying off poor managers signed by JF and the hundreds of thousands wasted on failed attempts at a new ground.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Didn't we lose direct funding from the EFL? and I'm sure that JF said on TV straight after the Burton game that relegation out of the Football League would cost the club £500,000 per season so 6 seasons x £500,000 comes to £3,000,000 by my reckoning but I did go to Hereford School.

Add to that paying off poor managers signed by JF and the hundreds of thousands wasted on failed attempts at a new ground.

And what's wrong with Hereford school??...first comprehensive school in Grimsby!!..and we had our own swimming pool ..😂

Quoted from TheRealJohnLewis

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00034760/filing-history

Full filing history.

Is there anybody out there who can tell me where there is any financial input from the other directors? Somebody worked out how much JF had saved over the years with free this and that at games, but at least he has put his money in.

I can see extremely meagre share holdings but where is the investment from the others, who are no doubt enjoying all the freebies? Especially as the Trust has to stump up is it £30k?

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

.and we had our own swimming pool ..😂

Only so some of the pupils actually got the occasional wash

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

And what's wrong with Hereford school??...first comprehensive school in Grimsby!!..and we had our own swimming pool ..😂

No use to me I couldn't swim at the time.

Fenty's cash contributions certainly kept the club afloat, and who knows where we would be now without them. He was not responsible for the mess with HMRC. So we should be grateful that he bailed us out when he did. We avoided a Chester, Hereford, Darlington, Stockport situation.

However, we have now seen smaller Lincs clubs Scunthorpe and Lincoln overtake us (in the former case for more than a decade) because they are well run and their board's have invested wisely in players and managers. It involved pumping cash into their clubs. Sadly what investments our board have made have not been as successful.

So despite his best efforts, and I have no doubt that he like all fans wants the best for the club, he has not brought the desired success to the club. I think, therefore, that we need a new person at the helm. Someone with a desire to invest, and fresh ideas about how best to use any incoming funds.

I believe that we have a forward looking manager, and we also have several promising young players already at the club, so the base is there on which to build.

I would hope that some deal could be done to repay some of the loans to JF, possibly staged over several years and possibly linked to success on the pitch, so that they don't prove an insurmountable financial barrier to prospective investors. Some of the loans could be converted into shares so that he would benefit should the financial fortunes of the club improve substantially in the future.

But we should be a L1 club with realistic aspirations to attaining Championship status. We are a long way from that. We need change.

"realistic aspirations to attaining Championship status. "

Is this ever going to be the case again?, League 1 yes, but a massive jump to what is effectively Premiership 2.

I hope I'm proven wrong in the coming years, but seems a big ask :-/

Quoted from lee65

"realistic aspirations to attaining Championship status. "

Is this ever going to be the case again?, League 1 yes, but a massive jump to what is effectively Premiership 2.

I hope I'm proven wrong in the coming years, but seems a big ask :-/

It's as likely as a new ground

Quoted from lee65

"realistic aspirations to attaining Championship status. "

Is this ever going to be the case again?, League 1 yes, but a massive jump to what is effectively Premiership 2.

I hope I'm proven wrong in the coming years, but seems a big ask :-/

Scunthorpe have been there recently. I am sure Lincoln will be aiming to get there as a goal for next season.

L1 should not be the limit of our ambition.

Quoted from RonMariner

Fenty's cash contributions certainly kept the club afloat, and who knows where we would be now without them. He was not responsible for the mess with HMRC. So we should be grateful that he bailed us out when he did. We avoided a Chester, Hereford, Darlington, Stockport situation.

However, we have now seen smaller Lincs clubs Scunthorpe and Lincoln overtake us (in the former case for more than a decade) because they are well run and their board's have invested wisely in players and managers. It involved pumping cash into their clubs. Sadly what investments our board have made have not been as successful.

So despite his best efforts, and I have no doubt that he like all fans wants the best for the club, he has not brought the desired success to the club. I think, therefore, that we need a new person at the helm. Someone with a desire to invest, and fresh ideas about how best to use any incoming funds.

I believe that we have a forward looking manager, and we also have several promising young players already at the club, so the base is there on which to build.

I would hope that some deal could be done to repay some of the loans to JF, possibly staged over several years and possibly linked to success on the pitch, so that they don't prove an insurmountable financial barrier to prospective investors. Some of the loans could be converted into shares so that he would benefit should the financial fortunes of the club improve substantially in the future.

But we should be a L1 club with realistic aspirations to attaining Championship status. We are a long way from that. We need change.

Pretty fair and balanced assessment. To be a bit more even handed saving us from the fate of those four clubs, could have meant we also avoided the fate of Rotherham, Bournemouth and other clubs who went into admin and prospered. To be clear on this, I'm glad for any small creditors that thtat didn't happen.

I had an interesting conversation last week with someone who was close to the club then but no longer. The advice at the time was that HMRC were looking to make an example of a football club and although GTFC were not singled out it could have been us and the very real threat of a winding up order. Maybe the Trust at the time could have energised to get the money together to stave that off but it would have been a very tall order. I'm not au fait with the workings of business banking but to have borrowed money from the bank to pay off the sort of money J.F. had to pay out (the HMRC stuff and Ramsden's "loans") would have incurred serious interest costs. Perhaps someone knows different but J.F.s "loan" was interest free?

Quoted from barralad

I had an interesting conversation last week with someone who was close to the club then but no longer. The advice at the time was that HMRC were looking to make an example of a football club and although GTFC were not singled out it could have been us and the very real threat of a winding up order. Maybe the Trust at the time could have energised to get the money together to stave that off but it would have been a very tall order. I'm not au fait with the workings of business banking but to have borrowed money from the bank to pay off the sort of money J.F. had to pay out (the HMRC stuff and Ramsden's "loans") would have incurred serious interest costs. Perhaps someone knows different but J.F.s "loan" was interest free?

The Trust did try. Too few people chipped in. I think something up to £20k was raised in the Keep the Mariners Afloat campaign (I may be over-estimating the number). There seemed to be a widely held view (at least going by comments on the Fishy, on Cod Almighty and in the GrimTel) that 'Fenty should stick his hand in his pocket, he's just made £25m'. He did, for which he deserves credit. The rest is history.

Quoted from moosey_club

JF - "Michael, we are safe now , start losing games so we can save on win bonuses, clean sheet bonuses and scoring bonuses and i will up your budget for a proper crack at mid table obscurity next season ".

I thought this was a funny little quip at the time, Moosey, not actual inside-information(icon_sad)

Something needs to happen this summer surely. We cannot continue with same lower league budget yet again 🙈

Get behind the manager and give him an increased budget JF in time for the summer transfer window.

Quoted from RonMariner

Fenty's cash contributions certainly kept the club afloat, and who knows where we would be now without them. He was not responsible for the mess with HMRC. So we should be grateful that he bailed us out when he did. We avoided a Chester, Hereford, Darlington, Stockport situation.

However, we have now seen smaller Lincs clubs Scunthorpe and Lincoln overtake us (in the former case for more than a decade) because they are well run and their board's have invested wisely in players and managers. It involved pumping cash into their clubs. Sadly what investments our board have made have not been as successful.

So despite his best efforts, and I have no doubt that he like all fans wants the best for the club, he has not brought the desired success to the club. I think, therefore, that we need a new person at the helm. Someone with a desire to invest, and fresh ideas about how best to use any incoming funds.

I believe that we have a forward looking manager, and we also have several promising young players already at the club, so the base is there on which to build.

I would hope that some deal could be done to repay some of the loans to JF, possibly staged over several years and possibly linked to success on the pitch, so that they don't prove an insurmountable financial barrier to prospective investors. Some of the loans could be converted into shares so that he would benefit should the financial fortunes of the club improve substantially in the future.

But we should be a L1 club with realistic aspirations to attaining Championship status. We are a long way from that. We need change.

But I thought we had a plan in place to get us in to the Championship within the next five years..... or have I been hoodwinked by the board? Again?