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Quoted from GrimRob

There's no way var is going to be overturned, that would be an admission of total incompetence.

Wouldn't that be something though, a panel using a machine to analyse the VAR panel decisions that were based on the decisions by the ref.
Needs a catchy name/acronym though.

Quoted from RoboCod

Wouldn't that be something though, a panel using a machine to analyse the VAR panel decisions that were based on the decisions by the ref.
Needs a catchy name/acronym though.

Think they need to encapsulate his incompetence, either call it Jon or Moss.

Quoted from RoboCod

Wouldn't that be something though, a panel using a machine to analyse the VAR panel decisions that were based on the decisions by the ref.
Needs a catchy name/acronym though.

VAR+

So today if Atkinson thought it was a yellow and didn’t agree with VAR could he have ignored it?

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Hope not ..... but if he does go hopefully it will be for a fee to a wealthy MLS side

I reckon he'll be going to the NASL rather than the MLS.

He won’t be going for a fee because we only agreed ‘a deal’ with him and not *a year long* deal or so I am told.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

So today if Atkinson thought it was a yellow and didn’t agree with VAR could he have ignored it?

I believe the final decision is with the referee.

Just thinking Justin Whittle might have been in. a bit of bother if VAR had been around when he elbowed Shearer

Quoted from bawarmy

Just thinking Justin Whittle might have been in. a bit of bother if VAR had been around when he elbowed Shearer

If VAR had been around Shearer wouldnt have even been playing that game as he would have no doubt been serving a 6 month ban himself for continual violent conduct throughout his career.

Quoted from moosey_club

If VAR had been around Shearer wouldnt have even been playing that game as he would have no doubt been serving a 6 month ban himself for continual violent conduct throughout his career.

If I remember right he’d stuck one on our Justin earlier so yes probably would have been off himself

Quoted from bawarmy

Just thinking Justin Whittle might have been in. a bit of bother if VAR had been around when he elbowed Shearer

I still have a little laught to myself when ever I see that scar just above his lip when he appears on MOTD

Quoted from Abdul19

I reckon he'll be going to the NASL rather than the MLS.

Agre with this. Have got it in my mind that he was going to Texas (?) becoming a brickie and probably playing part time. I think that was probably the last time we see him, so talking about ending on a real high and a real low! If it is the end then it's goodbye with my good wishes, improved the team when it was hugely needed and never let us down. Never going to be in the greats of gtfc left backs ,but in the context of our circumstances he did a very important job, fit and committed. Thank you mr. Fox

Had to feel sorry for him making that long walk off staring at the floor .

Quoted from Mariner93er

It was a challenge worthy of a red, ultimately. The shiteness of the VAR is admittedly frustrating, but it was a red. I like Fox though, always gives his all and I hope he bounces back stronger than ever.

I don't have a problem with VAR and as you point out, it was a red but the ref didn't give it immediately and as such he did not see it as a red card challenge. The issue I have at the moment is that VAR wasn't applied to all yesterdays FA Cup ties and as such wasn't a "level playing field " - no pun intended. If that same match had been played at BP with the same tackle and ref then a red card wouldn't have been issued because VAR wouldn't have been used. If it is going to be used then it shouldn't be piecemeal but across all games across the FA Cup spectrum. If that facility isn't available for ALL FA Cup matches then it shouldn't be used for any until it is.

Who pays for the installation of VAR-we can't even put "smelly" things in the bogs [unless you count that bloke who sits near me]

Quoted from golfer

Who pays for the installation of VAR-we can't even put "smelly" things in the bogs [unless you count that bloke who sits near me]

Which stand and seat number are you in Golfer, I've just checked myself and my wardrobe and all seems ok ;D.

If you are going to install VAR or even use VAR it needs to be on a separate TV camera system and not to rely on TV cameras. It was unfair on Town that not all fa cup games used VAR why?

Was it because we had it due to it being shown on foriegn TV as not all fa cup games that had Premier league sides had it.

It just stinks of favouring PL teams. The bit that's annoyed me is the ref actually waved play on.... Then yellow carded Fox....only for Moss to pull it back after a min or so.

Quoted from GrimRob

There's no way var is going to be overturned, that would be an admission of total incompetence.

Totally agree Rob - almost.

My question is "why is VAR anywhere near disciplinary issues?"

VAR should be used ONLY for technicalities, such as Offside, or infringements that MAY rule a goal in or out. Or possibly when mistaken identity occurs.

Most of these "Elite" officials are not fit for purpose; they have their favourite "teams" and their decisions are based on guess work 80% of the time.

They can take up to two minutes to organise a free kick, especially if booking players etc. This is because they are nearly all too old, too fat and out of breath after 15 minutes. They will then book a player who takes 5 seconds too long to take a throw in.

The fact is, PGMOL don't appear to want VAR here. They didn't want it last year and they only use it in Cups this season. Why didn't we have any refs at the World Cup? Because they don't want to use VAR because it questions their judgement, perhaps.

VAR can be a great improvement in the game - but not with these officials who deem themselves too important to have their decisions questioned.

So, my response to the card issue is that yes, it was probably a red, but VAR should not be making that decision.

Quoted from Meza

If you are going to install VAR or even use VAR it needs to be on a separate TV camera system and not to rely on TV cameras. It was unfair on Town that not all fa cup games used VAR why?

Was it because we had it due to it being shown on foriegn TV as not all fa cup games that had Premier league sides had it.

It just stinks of favouring PL teams. The bit that's annoyed me is the ref actually waved play on.... Then yellow carded Fox....only for Moss to pull it back after a min or so.

The ref waved play on as Palace had advantage as they were moving forwards until one of their players kicked the ball into touch.

No issues with VAR
And no issues with the red card

If that was a palace player most would he saying how great VAR is.

It will benefit you and the opposite at times, but it makes the game as fair as it can be, and I have no issues with that.

Don't blame Fox for the tackle, it was early, non intentional, and if that was his last game, I wish him all the best, good player, and hear nothing but good things about him off the pitch aswell

But as VAR was not at every cup game it is not a level playing field, say Macclesfield were also playing a cup game yesterday but had no VAR, the ref just gives a yellow for an identical incident as Fox's yesterday, hence no suspension for the next three games, but Fox gets a red and misses the next three.

Quoted from Meza

If you are going to install VAR or even use VAR it needs to be on a separate TV camera system and not to rely on TV cameras. It was unfair on Town that not all fa cup games used VAR why?

Was it because we had it due to it being shown on foriegn TV as not all fa cup games that had Premier league sides had it.

It just stinks of favouring PL teams. The bit that's annoyed me is the ref actually waved play on.... Then yellow carded Fox....only for Moss to pull it back after a min or so.

The technology and equipment is only available at premiership stadiums at the moment.
The nine games which carried VAR were/are premiership stadia.

The IFAB says VAR is only to be used "to correct clear errors and for missed serious incidents" in those "match-changing" situations.

VARs and other match officials are able to recommend reviews, but the only person who can initiate one is the referee, who will then have the final say on whether their original decision should stand or be changed.

They have the option to review footage themselves on a pitch-side monitor before making a final decision.

Read that on the web, so I can only presume the ref initiated a review. Still, we move on.

Didn't look like the ref initiated the review he looked happy to give the yellow at the time and move on...

It was a definite red card. Can't argue with that and Martin Atkinson should have got it right first time.

You can however argue whether the use of VAR in this incident is fair and should be within the remit of VAR. Should VAR be used to overrule the on field referee for an incident he has seen and already taken action for? And for opinion incidents (i.e. foul play and hand ball) should the VAR official be the one making the final decision or should the on field official have to look at it and make the decision (like at the World Cup).

And what is clearly unfair is that this will impact us for the next 3 matches as Fox will now serve a 3 match ban.

If that game had been non-VAR like the majority of 3rd Round matches then the FA couldn't take retrospective action against Fox because the referee saw it and only deemed it a yellow card.

You either have double jeopardy with disciplinary matters or you don't. Especially when it's not a level playing field and the vast majority of the games didn't have VAR.

Surely it is more unfair to not have VAR in your game as the result is more likely to be effected by a poor decision. Yesterday, Atkinson made a poor decision in giving the yellow and it was corrected. If a Macclesfield player does a tackle half way up our guys shin on Saturday, I'll be seething if it's not a red card. We need to stop playing the victim here and focus on how well the 10 men did.

Could we appeal the red card on the grounds that the ref only gave a yellow which was incorrectly overruled by the VAR system, which is not in the remitt of the VAR system?

Quoted from mimma

Could we appeal the red card on the grounds that the ref only gave a yellow which was incorrectly overruled by the VAR system, which is not in the remitt of the VAR system?

Let all Fishy members have a vote on it [all except Stadium and Ipswin :) ]

Quoted from mimma

Could we appeal the red card on the grounds that the ref only gave a yellow which was incorrectly overruled by the VAR system, which is not in the remitt of the VAR system?

The VAR system operated correctly.
And really appealing the VAR decision- are you sure ??
You don't really understand how football is operating in the modern day.

Quoted from Stadium

The VAR system operated correctly.
And really appealing the VAR decision- are you sure ??
You don't really understand how football is operating in the modern day.

I'm sure some of these posters would change their tune if we suffered an off the ball incident or elbow in the face that was missed by the officials.

Quoted from rancido

I don't have a problem with VAR and as you point out, it was a red but the ref didn't give it immediately and as such he did not see it as a red card challenge. The issue I have at the moment is that VAR wasn't applied to all yesterdays FA Cup ties and as such wasn't a "level playing field " - no pun intended. If that same match had been played at BP with the same tackle and ref then a red card wouldn't have been issued because VAR wouldn't have been used. If it is going to be used then it shouldn't be piecemeal but across all games across the FA Cup spectrum. If that facility isn't available for ALL FA Cup matches then it shouldn't be used for any until it is.

So do you have a problem that not all matches at Wimbledon use hawkeye?

Quoted from GrimRob

So do you have a problem that not all matches at Wimbledon use hawkeye?

I don't do tennis but if that is the case then , yes. The Laws ( or rules ) of any sport should be applied equally in any tournament. How about only having VAR for some World Cup Tournament games - is that fair?

Quoted from Stadium

The VAR system operated correctly.
And really appealing the VAR decision- are you sure ??
You don't really understand how football is operating in the modern day.

But did it? The Palace players didn't complain or badger the ref to have it reviewed. The ref didn't see any reason to review it, and he didn't have another look at a pitchside screen to make sure of his error. I'm not sure that is what should have happened, and begs the question of who is in control of the game.

Ultimately it's the refs call, Atkinson bottled it yesterday because he didn't want to take any black...
If he had a back bone he would have told Moss that he knew if that tackle had have happened once the game had settled he'd have issued a red but because he, as ref, was on the pitch, felt the atmosphere and understood that first tackle was over exuberance and a yellow would suffice enough to calm the player down...
So, in short, yes VAR did its job in informing him he should review the challenge and the colour of the card but he still has the last say ...should've pulled Fox up, had a word in his shelll like, issued the yellow and that should've been the end of it....
And there they shouldn't be trialling VAR at individual games in the same competition....If it's only available at Premier League grounds then they should've played all the 3rd round at Premier League grounds ..

I don't get this 'early in the game' thing. I felt for Fox but he lunged in high and late and caught Townsend nearer the knee than the floor. If that catches him square and his foot is planted it's the sort of challenge that breaks legs. Is that okay as it's 2 minutes in? If so what's the cut off? Ten minutes in? So a yellow in the first 9 mins and 59 seconds but after that the game has settled so it's a red?

I thought we were heroic yesterday. Constantly blaming Atkinson and VAR risks distracting from that if we're not careful.

Quoted from rancido

I'm sure some of these posters would change their tune if we suffered an off the ball incident or elbow in the face that was[/b] missed by the officials[b].

The ref did not miss the incident, as he gave a yellow card.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

I don't get this 'early in the game' thing. I felt for Fox but he lunged in high and late and caught Townsend nearer the knee than the floor. If that catches him square and his foot is planted it's the sort of challenge that breaks legs. Is that okay as it's 2 minutes in? If so what's the cut off? Ten minutes in? So a yellow in the first 9 mins and 59 seconds but after that the game has settled so it's a red?

I thought we were heroic yesterday. Constantly blaming Atkinson and VAR risks distracting from that if we're not careful.

Personally think you're being a bit sanctimonious. If you'd seen that contact 2 minutes into a League 2 game at BP, you'd say yellow. Yes, he made contact high but Townsend got the reaction he wanted from the officials and didn't even need the physio.

I don't mean to be, I just think it's a nailed on red card in any game. I'm surprised others feel differently having seen it back.

There's no way that's a yellow two minutes into a league 2 game. As Rodley said, the contact was nearer his knee than the floor, and every neutral I've shown it to has said it's a clear cut red card.

He didn't go through his leg it looked more a swipe..maybe even tried to pull out but caught him. The issue for me is none of our players have played under VAR (not that I can think of anyway) and don't have that experience unlike CP. I thought VAR was to give the ref a second opinion but it just feels different to the WC and it was instigated by Moss.

Regardless of yesterday, I'd like to complement Fox on his professionalism and commitment to GTFC.

If it's true, as suggested, that he's on his way to America soon and that it's been pre-arranged for a while, then it only speaks volumes to me when you look at his recent performances.

Knowing he was soon leaving, he could've fallen into the trap of putting in half-arsed performances or not wanted to risk injury etc, but I've thought from what I've seen in the last 6 weeks or so that he's been playing really really well. And you'd have never guessed from watching him defend for his life at Exeter and Port Vale, that he was seeing out his last few weeks here.

So I'm not gonna hammer him for his red card yesterday. It's happened to loads of players when the adrenaline for a big game takes over a bit too much.

Sad way to finish if that was his last involvement, but think he's been good for us.

Doesn’t matter about experience of VAR ... it was a red card challenge , VAR is to assist / correct refs .. which it did ! if fox stayed on and scored winner , it wouldn’t have been fair .. and on other foot, we would not be happy . The lads did great , VAR did it’s job and nobody can really complain

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

I don't mean to be, I just think it's a nailed on red card in any game. I'm surprised others feel differently having seen it back.

Atkinson didn't think it was a red and he was stood a few yards away.

Quoted from Mariner93er

There's no way that's a yellow two minutes into a league 2 game. As Rodley said, the contact was nearer his knee than the floor, and every neutral I've shown it to has said it's a clear cut red card.

I showed it to a scunny fan and he said yellow . It’s certainly not a clear and unambiguous error to issue a yellow or red .
A ball over the line is clear and unambiguous. I really don’t think VAR was used correctly on this occasion

Quoted from Tommy

Regardless of yesterday, I'd like to complement Fox on his professionalism and commitment to GTFC.

If it's true, as suggested, that he's on his way to America soon and that it's been pre-arranged for a while, then it only speaks volumes to me when you look at his recent performances.

Knowing he was soon leaving, he could've fallen into the trap of putting in half-arsed performances or not wanted to risk injury etc, but I've thought from what I've seen in the last 6 weeks or so that he's been playing really really well. And you'd have never guessed from watching him defend for his life at Exeter and Port Vale, that he was seeing out his last few weeks here.

So I'm not gonna hammer him for his red card yesterday. It's happened to loads of players when the adrenaline for a big game takes over a bit too much.

Sad way to finish if that was his last involvement, but think he's been good for us.

Great post Tommy. There was no malice afore thought in the challenge and, if that’s the last we see of him in black and white then he goes with best wishes and thanks for being part of rescuing us last season.

I'd agree with all of that too Tommy and hope his move works well for him. Played a part in saving us last season when we seemed doomed.

Think the whole VAR set up is wrong. We should be look at how Rugby and the NFL use it. Was at the palace game and there was no opportunity or means for ref to review it so he was over-ruled as his decision was a yellow. Thought the law of football was the referee on the field of play was in charge (that’s what they told me on the refs course) !

I think we’d have stood a much much better chance in the last two games of achieving more points and a potential replay if we’d had two natural centre halves and 11 men on the pitch all the time. Certainly would’ve been a fairer contest.

Never a fuccking red. Whatever happened to common sense & the benefit of the doubt? Nobody would’ve argued if that was left as a yellow. Some crysarses making out like Fox has gone straight through him, he didn’t even graze the diving rat.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

I don't get this 'early in the game' thing. I felt for Fox but he lunged in high and late and caught Townsend nearer the knee than the floor. If that catches him square and his foot is planted it's the sort of challenge that breaks legs. Is that okay as it's 2 minutes in? If so what's the cut off? Ten minutes in? So a yellow in the first 9 mins and 59 seconds but after that the game has settled so it's a red?

I thought we were heroic yesterday. Constantly blaming Atkinson and VAR risks distracting from that if we're not careful.

Just like to point out that I'm not blaming anyone for the defeat, we did very well and I was actually a little unsure of what a replay may do to our squad as we try to climb the table, I'd rather we stay fresh for that. The result is irrelevant for me re the VAR, just the manner in which the red was decided upon.

As for the cut-off point in a game, who knows? It's clear to be seen week in week out, and someone may want to dig out the Brizzle play-off game and see how long into the match we were when the ref kindly decided not to spoil the spectacle and meekly give out a yellow to their keeper for handling outside the box.

It's always been down to the ref on the day and his approach to the game, though under VAR we seem to be sneaking towards the approach of the official in charge of VAR on the day,

Taken from FIFA website:

DIRECT RED CARD INCIDENTS
The role of the VAR is to ensure that no clearly wrong decisions are made in conjunction with sending off or not sending off a player.

And:

Decision or action is taken
The referee decides to review the video footage on the side of the field of play before taking the appropriate action/decision, or the referee accepts the information from the VAR and takes the appropriate action/decision.

So after reading this then the ref and VAR ref were correct yesterday in changing the card.

Quoted from mimma

Taken from FIFA website:

DIRECT RED CARD INCIDENTS
The role of the VAR is to ensure that no clearly wrong decisions are made in conjunction with sending off or not sending off a player.

And:

Decision or action is taken
The referee decides to review the video footage on the side of the field of play before taking the appropriate action/decision, or the referee accepts the information from the VAR and takes the appropriate action/decision.

So after reading this then the ref and VAR ref were correct yesterday in changing the card.

No, because it was not ‘clearly wrong’ It was one persons opinion against anothers

If one of their players had done that to one of ours, we would all have been howling for a red card. Fox mistimed his challenge and it was very dangerous. The ref saw a yellow live as did everyone else, but the close up replay shows that it was a clear red card foul. That's what VAR is for, to correct errors that the ref makes in the instant. My only question about it is that Atkinson should have taken a look at the video evidence for himself before overturning his own call. Had he done so, I'm pretty sure it would still have been a red card.
I live in Atlanta and have watched numerous MLS games where VAR is now just a part of the furniture. It does not end all controversy, but it definitely changes the outcome of games. I've seen goals given by the ref chalked off two minutes later after he has stared at a tv screen for what seems like an age trying to make the right decision, especially regarding offside calls and penalties. But in the end, it helps the officials get more difficult calls right, so on balance I'm for it.

No complaints on the red.  It was very reckless, needless and ultimately stupid. 1st minute or 91st minute, you can't lunge in like that these days.  Moment of madness from Fox and I'm sure he's well aware of the consequences of his actions.  Unfortunate that it's likely to be his last act in a Town shirt.

How Atkinson saw enough of it to issue a yellow and not a red I don't know, maybe he bought into the 'too early' mindset but then felt the pressure from VAR to issue a red.

Is it fair that we played with VAR and others didn't?  I doubt we would have complained if it had gone in our favour.

My issue is with VAR overall.  It's not done to improve the game, it's getting shoehorned into the game to sell advertising slots, nothing else.  One of the biggest conversation points about football is the controversy  - was he offside, was it a penalty etc.  You take that away from the game and it makes it less interesting, it becomes cold and clinical.

i tend to agree with most, it was a red card, but the ref gave yellow. without VAR we would of had 11 men on the pitch and Palace would have had a serious game on their hands. If all the games had VAR i wouldnt have minded but they didnt. Watching other games without VAR some players got away with not been sent off . Just appears unfair IMHO. Team were excellent , Support fantastic. UTM.

Quoted from 4055

i tend to agree with most, it was a red card, but the ref gave yellow. without VAR we would of had 11 men on the pitch and Palace would have had a serious game on their hands. If all the games had VAR i wouldnt have minded but they didnt. Watching other games without VAR some players got away with not been sent off . Just appears unfair IMHO. Team were excellent , Support fantastic. UTM.

You say it was a red, but the most experienced referee in the Premier League was standing 5 yards away, and taking all the circumstances into account decided it was a yellow card. He had to take into account several factors and his experience told him a yellow would have settled everybody down, and we would have had a great game at 11 v 11 which is what everyone had come to see.

I am sure Fox bitterly regrets diving in like that, but the occasion clearly got him too pumped up and a yellow card and a stern warning should have been the end of it.

Just read an interview with Mckeown in the Independent. Says Fox is the nicest man he’s met in football and his wife had flown over from the US to see the game, poor bloke. I have no ill feeling towards him at all

As regrettable as it was, the sending off prompted the subsequent heroics, positive media coverage and universal respect. Things sometimes happen for a reason and I agree with others that this is likely a pivotal moment. Not sure if I'd change anything given a time travel machine. It was all very "Town" and much the better for it.

Quoted from 140381

As regrettable as it was, the sending off prompted the subsequent heroics, positive media coverage and universal respect. Things sometimes happen for a reason and I agree with others that this is likely a pivotal moment. Not sure if I'd change anything given a time travel machine. It was all very "Town" and much the better for it.

Maybe, but a sneaky one nil win with 11 players would be even better.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Maybe, but a sneaky one nil win with 11 players would be even better.

I know. Just trying to be glass half full.

Quoted from Hagrid

Just read an interview with Mckeown in the Independent. Says Fox is the nicest man he’s met in football and his wife had flown over from the US to see the game, poor bloke. I have no ill feeling towards him at all

Sorry but that's both tragic and hilarious at the same time! Poor guy must be absolutely distraught! Chance to show his better half his prowess and she's travelled for hours to see him and a fair expense, and he probably didn't even break sweat..... Lolz.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/fa-league-cups/crystal-palace-vs-grimsby-andrew-fox-var-foul-referee-controversy-a8714096.html

her's the linky thingy

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

You say it was a red, but the most experienced referee in the Premier League was standing 5 yards away, and taking all the circumstances into account decided it was a yellow card. He had to take into account several factors and his experience told him a yellow would have settled everybody down, and we would have had a great game at 11 v 11 which is what everyone had come to see.

I am sure Fox bitterly regrets diving in like that, but the occasion clearly got him too pumped up and a yellow card and a stern warning should have been the end of it.

VAR gave it a red , TV replays say red. Ref said yellow untill VAR stepped in. He may be an experienced ref but by the letter of the law got it wrong. I believe he didnt want to send Fox off but had no choice. My argument is none VAR games allowed players to get away with bad tackles.

Quoted from Biccys

Sorry but that's both tragic and hilarious at the same time! Poor guy must be absolutely distraught! Chance to show his better half his prowess and she's travelled for hours to see him and a fair expense, and he probably didn't even break sweat..... Lolz.

It could be a while before he sees the funny side.........if it exists. Truly poignant moment.

More importantly, is Fox definitely going? Seems to be roundly assumed that he’s on his way, though without any concrete evidence. Would be great if we were able to keep hold of him.

Quoted from 4055

VAR gave it a red , TV replays say red. Ref said yellow untill VAR stepped in. He may be an experienced ref but by the letter of the law got it wrong. I believe he didnt want to send Fox off but had no choice. My argument is none VAR games allowed players to get away with bad tackles.

He did have the choice,the final decision is with the ref.
However seeing he never even reviewed it the decision was effectively made by VAR (Which was correct)

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Maybe, but a sneaky one nil win with 11 players would be even better.

A sneaky one nil with 10 would have been even better

Quoted from 4055

i tend to agree with most, it was a red card, but the ref gave yellow. without VAR we would of had 11 men on the pitch and Palace would have had a serious game on their hands. If all the games had VAR i wouldnt have minded but they didnt. Watching other games without VAR some players got away with not been sent off . Just appears unfair IMHO. Team were excellent , Support fantastic. UTM.

Now I've calmed down I can see why the red was given. On explaining what happened to a colleague today, he asked me 'do all FA Cup games have VAR then?', 'no, just the ones at Premiership grounds.' 'How is that fair?' was his reaction.

It'll be our last chance then on Saturday so let's have a rousing rendition of: he was one of our own, he was one of our own Andrew Fox he was one of our own...(majnu)

No player does a tackle that will get him sent off on purpose,

Fox was pumped up playing against a prem side in front of a big crowd including 5,500 mariners even more than that his wife had flown all the way from the USA to see him play.

The managers last word in the changing room would go something like this,

" Make sure the one you are marking knows you are there hit him hard but fair especially your 1st challenge"

All this is going round in his head so its no wonder he went just that little bit high if he had won the ball but clattered Townsend his job of marking him would have been made easier .

Sadly it was not to be.

I know it's going back a few years now, but if only VAR had been about when Challionor ended Pringle's career.

So did the ref show him a yellow??

All I seem to remember was the tackle , , , , play continuing , , , , Townsend dead , ,, , , the ball gets knocked out of play , , , , Townsend is immediately resurrected , , , , Ref runs across to Fox , , , , , ref then draws a box above his head , , , , , , ref shows Fox a red card

That's how I remember it all happening