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Pretty much as I saw it. We started on the front foot but first half there were too many misplaced passes and players not moving/anticipating. We were bullied especially in midfield by their two big lads and Thomas in particular got increasingly frutrated by the lack of service-berating Clifton for one particularly half hearted pass. Their goal took enough of a swerve deflection to turn a decent effort into an unstoppable one. There was of course opportunity for an excellent Macca save with his feet from close range. The fans mirrored the team's doldrums despite the efforts of a lone guy who showed great tenacity in starting at least ten songs only for nobidy to join in. His voice gave out just after they scored. One of the features of Town's recent play has been that the days of thinking we won't come back after going behind have gone and nobody seemed particularly concerned.
Second half was totally different. Pringle found his line, Vernam found his speed and willingness to run with the ball and Clifton and Hess discovered their teeth. The equaliser owed much to some fantastic work by Thomas and great anticipation from Embers who'd drifted into the six yard box totally unmarked. From then there was only one team in it. Thomas missed a good chance created by his own strong running and skill on the ball. Pringle should've done better with his effort. Having read on here the criticism of Jolley for the sub it seems a tad harsh. Those around me (and me) thought he looked knackered and that's without mentioning the punch up he got involved in off the ball with one of their lads when punches were landed. We will always miss his ability and it proved to be the case. Their penalty was too far away to see properly but the earlier incident where Thomas was just thrown to the ground was missed by a lino 30 feet away and a ref even closer. We didn't deserve to get nowt out of the game. We have played far worse and won under Jolley particularly at the back end of last season. Not too despondent tonight.

A great summary. We're a few good additions away from being a good team. There was a spell leading up to our goal were it was wave after wave of attack, it was great to watch. In the end we've lost to a cruel deflection and a sloppy penalty. To be fair to Davis, he didn't do a thing wrong up until then, and I think he's made a real difference at the back since he's come in.

Defeats like this hurt the most, when you know we didn't deserve to lose, but encouraging signs.

I truly dislike Cheltenham Uo until that play-off final in 2006 we always beat them. Now it's the other way round.

Incredibly, Slades took 4 points off them last season.

We are progressing.

Finding us very enjoyable to watch

Second half absolutely dominated them

Their keeper was man of match

Their number 6 was quality. Apart from that they look like a decent conference team. Very well organised off the ball. Direct and physical on it. Lacking in quality overall.

Collins shows his worth every time I see him. Think hess had a great game. Thomas can roll his man and create stuff out of nothing.

Don’t think jolley was to blame at all. He is progressing us nicely.

Need to keep embo.

Hate Cheltenham with a passion

Quoted from 3610

We are progressing.

Finding us very enjoyable to watch

Second half absolutely dominated them

Their keeper was man of match

Their number 6 was quality. Apart from that they look like a decent conference team. Very well organised off the ball. Direct and physical on it. Lacking in quality overall.

Collins shows his worth every time I see him. Think hess had a great game. Thomas can roll his man and create stuff out of nothing.

Don’t think jolley was to blame at all. He is progressing us nicely.

Need to keep embo.

Hate Cheltenham with a passion

This...

watched the highlights now and Chelts had plenty of chances in the game as did we....its a shame Thomas and Pringle werent a little cooler in front of goal but thats why they are playing at this level....soft penalty but fair play to Jones he was on the move anticipating the nod down and we were flat footed which was enough for Hendrie to be challenging slightly late and from the wrong side.

So frustrating
We dominated, they where poor, we looked like the only team who was going to win after we equalised
And we lost!
We seemed to play in spasms
Brilliant for 10
Then Sat back for 10
Came away from a game where we where confident we would get a result and couldn’t believe we had actually lost
Thomas was excellent today and wish he had scored from his second half 1 on 1 with the keeper
Vernam Quiet
Stronger and Stronger second half and should have won
Ref was shite and inevitable he would influence a major decision coz if there’s was a pen So was ours earlier in the half
Two Winnable Home games coming up
Come on Town keep improving and keep together

I largely agree with Barra, cardiffmariner and salfordmariner about the events of the game. We are improving, we are becoming enjoyable to watch and we should have won today.. but we didn't and we didn't because we shoot ourselves in the foot in games like this that we should win at a canter. Let's face it, Cheltenham are a very poor team, one of the worst defensively I've seen all season and barring one or two individuals not a patch on our eleven.

Where I disagree is with the not too disappointed, don't be downhearted sort of sentiments. I was spitting feathers that we lost a game like this. I was really frustrated. Are we going to be a set of fans that don't mind getting beat by a shite side because we were better than we've been in the past season or two? Are we becoming more accepting of undeserved defeats when we shouldn't? We want to be supporting ruthless winners and demanding three points off sides like Cheltenham if we are going to progress.

I don't understand Jolley's statement saying that we were trying to play deep and hit them on the break because for the first thirty minutes or so we were pressing them high up the pitch and taking the game by the scruff of the neck. But.. we didn't get that breakthrough and then for the rest of the half including the ten minutes before they scored our defence unexplicably dropped off an extra ten or twenty yards and they got a foothold in the game using the extra space. suddenly our midfield two were more exposed and they had time on the ball, suddenly Fox was more exposed not knowing whether to stick or twist with their wing back as Embleton wasn't helping and the central defence was too deep to give him support. Does he go tight and expose himself to the ball inside him? Dropping off so much causes this indecision and lets a team like Cheltenham get into a game that their inabilities shouldn't be able to if we kept our foot on the gas. To be fair their goal, lucky or not was coming the five or ten minutes before it did and they could have added another before half time. We came out second half and should have won the game with the gilt edged chances we created and some great crosses no-one had the gumption to gamble for. It was working well because our defence got tighter and higher then last fifteen we dropped right off again and gave them time and space in and around our box. I was alarmed at how deep we drop into our box too, if we're going to drop deep you defend at the edge of your box to avoid incidents like the penalty decision.

We are improving and I'm now expecting us to win games like this. We have only ourselves to blame and there will be plenty for Jolley to analyse this weekend, both good and bad. Hess and Thomas were outstanding and our other players were both good and bad throughout the game. I know we've seen a lot of shite over the past two seasons and to be truthful there's not a lot to worry about but there's plenty we can improve upon. I'm more frustrated that we haven't built upon our good run today than seeing some of the ineptitude last season because I didn't expect much from the side last season. I do this season and if the players are honest with themselves, they threw three points away today and will know they will need to be more ruthless and eliminate the mistakes. If not, we are not going to progress. If we are going to play on the front foot from front to back, I'd like to have a defence that plays on the front foot like the game against Tranmere, I think this is the way we're going to get the best results as well as playing an attractive brand of football. Today was a mish mash of styles throughout the ninety minutes and there were periods of play that we looked cohesive and others where we looked a bit of a muddle.

I've got hope for this team with a few tweaks and a couple of additions, but we're going to have to put games like this away regularly if we want to be at the other end of the table in the future. I'm not downhearted but very frustrated that we've let three points go. We can't keep writing off games like this and politely say that it doesnt matter too much, because it does..

We didn't deserve to win today because we weren't ruthless enough in both boxes. On the balance of play it's easy to say that we deserved to win but at the crucial moments we were slack and at times we made poor positional decisions and gave Cheltenham more room to play than we are capable of letting them have. These areas need to improve as much as other aspects of our game have recently. We weren't unlucky today, we just let a game that we generally dominated slip through our fingers and only have ourselves to blame..

Feeling very, very wounded by that result. Don’t believe we deserved to lose and thought we played ok. Haven’t seen the penalty back on tape yet, but seeing it live, it looked as if Davis lunges into their player and was a correct decision (could be wrong). Will have another look at it when I can bring myself to.

Frustrating thing is that if you look at the table in thirds, which i do, then you have a top eight, mid table eight and a bottom eight. Had we won yesterday, we would have been right on the verge of the mid table section, with the added bonus of keeping Cheltenham firmly in the bottom eight.

On the plus side, we are now expecting us to score and win games, whereas for most of last season, and the first part of this season, we were expecting the worst. There has been definite improvement, while there are signs that other sides are now having bad losing runs, and a few are dropping down the league. I'm confident that our trajectory will generally be upward. Maybe slowly, but in the right direction. Two or three more good signings in Jan, and some more dead wood shipped out will speed this along hopefully.

I think yesterday was just one of those days when you don't get the breaks. We've generally been getting the rub of the green lately in games, but yesterday, they got it. Think it unfair to have a go at Jolley for making the wrong changes. Had we taken one of those good chances before the pen, then people would be saying he got it right again. Fine margins.

So frustrating. Can only echo what most others have posted. Totally understand big dogs frustration and opinion. Pringle in the last 2 games has been the epitome of 'the good, the bad and the ugly' .his range of passing is superb and a real joy, but there have been several occasions in each match where he has given the ball away in bad positions with sloppy passes, whilst he really should've scored from the one one yesterday (as should Thomas)
I think a daw would've been a fair result as mckeown had to pull off 2 or 3 excellent saves as did their keeper.
They will be pleased with their performance especially when you think 2 of their very few decent players went off injured relatively early.
To end on a more positive note I thought we played better than last week, were better for longer than at Northampton and massively improved from the rubbish I watched v morecambe Cambridge and Stevenage.
Stay out the bottom 2 going into January get that Kokai from burnley, a partner for Thomas and someone like their blond harmed right winger and I think we will be fine

Ps maybe we shouldn't be too surprised.just had a look at our record and that's 1 win in ten games v Chelts.they are truly a bogey side for us

We didn't deserve to lose, I felt we had a decent claim for our penalty. The thing that concerns me most about our play is our play out under pressure we just hoof it and then it comes straight back at us, we need more counter attacking play brought into our game and more movement. We have some young and bright players and our passing at times is woeful. With greater movement we will pull teams out of the shape they are set up in and create more chances.

When Jolley came here he said we will be playing a more pressing and attacking type of game. When we do we are a joy to watch, unfortunately we don't press enough.

Training ground wishes for Christmas for me - sharper passing, counter attack play when under pressure, more movement from more agile players

We need at least a couple of quality players bringing in, a striker and box to box midfielder, Max bringing back and coming on as a sub with Akeem getting more game time, later in the game.

Quoted from Marinerz93

We didn't deserve to lose, I felt we had a decent claim for our penalty. The thing that concerns me most about our play is our play out under pressure we just hoof it and then it comes straight back at us, we need more counter attacking play brought into our game and more movement. We have some young and bright players and our passing at times is woeful. With greater movement we will pull teams out of the shape they are set up in and create more chances.

When Jolley came here he said we will be playing a more pressing and attacking type of game. When we do we are a joy to watch, unfortunately we don't press enough.

Training ground wishes for Christmas for me - sharper passing, counter attack play when under pressure, more movement from more agile players

We need at least a couple of quality players bringing in, a striker and box to box midfielder, Max bringing back and coming on as a sub with Akeem getting more game time, later in the game.

Barcelona in Black & White then?

Quoted from 3610

We are progressing.

Finding us very enjoyable to watch

Second half absolutely dominated them

Their keeper was man of match

Their number 6 was quality. Apart from that they look like a decent conference team. Very well organised off the ball. Direct and physical on it. Lacking in quality overall.

Collins shows his worth every time I see him. Think hess had a great game. Thomas can roll his man and create stuff out of nothing.

Don’t think jolley was to blame at all. He is progressing us nicely.

Need to keep embo.

Hate Cheltenham with a passion

Ok, you tell me how he's improved us against a struggling team in the Conference and one of the worst sides in our league since he came straight back in after our defence and overall team play was superb against a decent forward line of a team in the play offs in League Two..

God knows what Alex Whitmore must be thinking..

We conceded two against Tranmere..

Quoted from Bigdog

Ok, you tell me how he's improved us against a struggling team in the Conference and one of the worst sides in our league since he came straight back in after our defence was superb against a decent forward line of a team in the play offs in League Two..

God knows what Alex Whitmore must be thinking..

We are a work in progress potentially we'll progress to see Whitmore & Davis as the CB pairing next season. If MJ is thinking that next season we'll seriously challenge for top 7 then having a solid CB pairing will be crucial I'm not sure why Collins appears to be guaranteed to start when we are building for the future.

Quoted from sam gy

We conceded two against Tranmere..

Yes, but we also scored 5, purely because our defensive line can sit higher as it's not having to compensate for the lack of Coliins mobility ..
Don't get me wrong, Collins has been immense in terms of winning headers, my god he had the chesterfield giant in his pocket most of that match but I still think we look more like scoring goals having Whitmore and David as the 2 central defenders...

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Yes, but we also scored 5, purely because our defensive line can sit higher as it's not having to compensate for the lack of Coliins mobility ..
Don't get me wrong, Collins has been immense in terms of winning headers, my god he had the chesterfield giant in his pocket most of that match but I still think we look more like scoring goals having Whitmore and Davis as the 2 central defenders...

Quoted from HertsGTFC

We are a work in progress potentially we'll progress to see Whitmore & Davis as the CB pairing next season. If MJ is thinking that next season we'll seriously challenge for top 7 then having a solid CB pairing will be crucial I'm not sure why Collins appears to be guaranteed to start when we are building for the future.

That's the bit I don't get Herts. What can being dropped when playing well do to Whitmore's confidence? Is it helping with building a team for the future and are our results any better with Collins in the team? He's as good if not better in the air than Collins, quicker, stronger, marks tighter, Davis seems to play better on the front foot with Whitmore, the team seem to play better on the front foot as a whole by holding a higher line with Whitmore and Whitmore is less error prone.

Collins may make the odd eyecatching last ditch block or header but if anyone's got the time to watch the match on Saturday again and study our back line habits during the game ie dropping off and giving Cheltenham threatening time and space and see how many times Collins recklessly runs into midfield and misses headers it will dilute any positive thoughts about his play if a fan stops solely ball watching throughout the game. The gap between defence and our midfield was alarmingly large at times, defenders lining up on our six yard box while the opposition were free on the edge of the box and Davis was drawn into playing the same way when he looked so impressive on the front foot against Tranmere.

I can't my head around what Jolley sees to make DC a guaranteed starter and not many fans could argue against my opinion if they took their defensive loyalty hat off and properly studied the evidence. I'm not part of a witch hunt as some would argue, I just want our side to be the best it can be as soon as it can and in my mind MJ playing DC is holding us back and also holding careers back of young players that can do better if given the chance on a regular basis.

In the last two games I've seen no benefit in dropping Whitmore at all, as was the case when DC walked straight back in the side after his broken arm..

I know you think he sits too deep, slow etc...
all these are valid points. But, and it’s all about opinions..... but I think he brings something to the team that shows his worth.

He is a “ruthless winner” as you put it.

He has played in the premier league, and his experience is crucial for our young developing side. I am sure our centre half’s will learn and develop aspects of their game from playing and training with him.

He leads from the front and organises the defence, gets his head on everything.

For what it’s worth. I think Davis is playing very well, especially since moving to centre half. And I really like whitmore. He reminds me a little of Pearson.

I am not saying Collins is miles ahead of these two, I just said I thought his mentality and experience (along with good performances), show his worth to the team.

Quoted from 3610

I know you think he sits too deep, slow etc...
all these are valid points. But, and it’s all about opinions..... but I think he brings something to the team that shows his worth.

He is a “ruthless winner” as you put it.

He has played in the premier league, and his experience is crucial for our young developing side. I am sure our centre half’s will learn and develop aspects of their game from playing and training with him.

He leads from the front and organises the defence, gets his head on everything.

For what it’s worth. I think Davis is playing very well, especially since moving to centre half. And I really like whitmore. He reminds me a little of Pearson.

I am not saying Collins is miles ahead of these two, I just said I thought his mentality and experience (along with good performances), show his worth to the team.

Unfortunately he's holding back the progression of the team tho, there's no doubting he WAS a great defender with a very good pedigree but now, father time is showing and the way we have to play with DC in the back line is affecting our forward play...
I know what you're saying him transferring his knowledge and experience onto our young defenders but I'd rather see that done on the trainihg ground and not on match days on the pitch .

Harry Davis has made over 200 senior appearances, giving plenty of experience, and I would argue that Whitmore has been our best centre back this season other than one really poor outing at Bury - he was not on his own - DC has been great but the other two would get the nod from me.

Collins brings experience. There were so msny times yesterday when he was bellowing instructions to the younger players, telling them were to position etc. Whether this leadership warrants a starting birth is debateable, but beyond him it's a very young team.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Harry Davis has made over 200 senior appearances, giving plenty of experience, and I would argue that Whitmore has been our best centre back this season other than one really poor outing at Bury - he was not on his own - DC has been great but the other two would get the nod from me.

Pringle, Thomas, McKeown and Hessenthaler have also played over 200 games too. We're not that short of experience in our regular starting line up and with only one teenager in the side and a total of three under the age of 24, we're hardly matching the Busby Babes are we? It's a pleasant change from the past few years of journeyman after journeyman but I don't think the average age of our side is much different to many in our league and doesn't need a babysitter which has been proven on several occasions this season..

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Unfortunately he's holding back the progression of the team tho, there's no doubting he WAS a great defender with a very good pedigree but now, father time is showing and the way we have to play with DC in the back line is affecting our forward play...
I know what you're saying him transferring his knowledge and experience onto our young defenders but I'd rather see that done on the trainihg ground and not on match days on the pitch .

If I am being generous I’d say that may be correct as I doubt DC will be playing in our first team in 2 years time but maybe we should just ‘build for the future’ and forget about today?

ANY manager will pick what he believes is his best team to win a game, with possibly half an eye on the next game or two (I.e. Tuesday sat, Tues or a packed Christmas program) and that is precisely why DC is one of the first names on the team sheet.
If I was manager I’d want my best defender playing, I don’t accept we would play any higher up the pitch if DC wasnt playing ( by way of example I recall seeing us sit in our box for the 2nd half at MKD).

For every Kev Moore you want a Chris Nicholl for every Mark Lever or Peter Handyside you need a Lord Futcher.

Not a witch hunt?