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Posted by: Davec, November 8, 2018, 7:59am
The accounts are now available to view on Companies House, I've read them but I don't understand these things 😂 can somebody provide a summary please like for example what's the budget like and how much is Fenty's loans worth now.
Posted by: psgmariner, November 8, 2018, 8:16am; Reply: 1
Playing budget went up. Attendances and turnover went down so this was made up by player sales.

Number of staff went up.

£2 million loans from directors. Down slightly from last year.
Posted by: psgmariner, November 8, 2018, 8:19am; Reply: 2
£1.8 million loan I mean. It’s on page 18

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00034760/filing-history
Posted by: Cloudy, November 8, 2018, 8:39am; Reply: 3
Reduction in directors loans by £200k. Not disclosed if this is a reduction in JF's support or say, repayment to Mr & Mrs Mullen?

Made a loss on £33k on 'player trading' compared with £826k profit the previous year.

JF's shareholding = £975k
Posted by: mirrorballman, November 8, 2018, 8:57am; Reply: 4
Good analysis here on this thread. Wages are up a bit. Also, he points out the squad consists entirely of academy graduates and free transfers. A reminder of the task Michael Jolley has.

[tweet]1060448766849880065[/tweet]
Posted by: psgmariner, November 8, 2018, 9:11am; Reply: 5
That twitter account is really good. Thanks for posting.
Posted by: diehardmariner, November 8, 2018, 9:18am; Reply: 6
Right,

So £1.8 million in loans add to his shareholding of £975,000.    That means his hold over the club is £2,775,000.   I think he would be very cheeky to ask for that considering that during his tenure we've seen a, to paraphrase the man himself, a devaluing of the product.  But if that's what it is, it's what it is.  Let's go with that figure.  Who's got that hiding down the back of the settee?

Other things that stand out to me, note I'm reading it completely as a novice...

S.Marley - shareholding of £3200.  For the cost of an all-inclusive family holiday in the sun, he's managed to secure a position on our board and is in a position of influence where he can tell the real owners of the club, i.e us as fans, to 'shut up'.  Last year he increased his stakeholding (the only one of the board to do so) from £2000, a cost of £1200.  I dare say there are members of this forum who spent more on GTFC in the last year than £1200.  I would also query that after the cost of his entry to the games, presuming directors don't pay to go through the gate like you and I, plus no doubt his corporate benefits each game (food, drinks, utilising club property for business connections/networking) how much he's actually contributed?

Michael Chapman - £500.  That's his place on the board.  I haven't seen or heard from him in a while.  Is he still active?  Does he still attend games?   His shareholding hasn't adjusted in two years, in fact for a while as I recall, he's basically bought himself a long-term season ticket for £500.    Can I have one please?

Commercial Income - Down £6k
Other Income - Down £400.

Why?  Is anyone looking at this and querying what the hell we're doing as a club and how we can improve on it?

For me, we have people on the board of directors for one of two reasons, in an ideal world they would provide both.  They're either cash rich and are prepared to invest in the club or they've got business acumen/knowledge or contacts who can improve the club.

None of our directors are investing in the club.  £1200 last year.  That's 24 replica shirts worth.  400 matchday programmes.  Looking at the practically stagnant commercial and other income figures, they're not providing an expertise either.  I think it's Philip Day who provides legal advice so that may be his contribution.  

Let's put this in very simple terms.  This board are doing nothing.  NOTHING.  The club is running on auto-pilot into a slow and painful demise.  It's the same old crappy marketing campaigns that have no impact.  It's the same every time.

Get your season ticket!  Why?  Err, well here's a picture of the manager.  
Pack the park! Why?  Err, here's a picture of Mitch Rose celebrating last season.

There's nothing ever done that's different or encouraging to get people involved.  We're not even stagnating, we're regressing on their watch.  Time to go, John.  You and your mob.  You're killing this club.  Time to let someone else have a go.  Before anyone asks who else is going to put money in, look at the accounts.  The only people putting money in are me and you, the fans who blindly troop through the gate every game.  
Posted by: Tommy, November 8, 2018, 9:56am; Reply: 7
Quoted from mirrorballman
Good analysis here on this thread. Wages are up a bit. Also, he points out the squad consists entirely of academy graduates and free transfers. A reminder of the task Michael Jolley has.



To be fair, I would've thought that is the case for almost all clubs in League Two.
Posted by: lew chaterleys lover, November 8, 2018, 10:00am; Reply: 8
Quoted from diehardmariner
Right,

So £1.8 million in loans add to his shareholding of £975,000.    That means his hold over the club is £2,775,000.   I think he would be very cheeky to ask for that considering that during his tenure we've seen a, to paraphrase the man himself, a devaluing of the product.  But if that's what it is, it's what it is.  Let's go with that figure.  Who's got that hiding down the back of the settee?

Other things that stand out to me, note I'm reading it completely as a novice...

S.Marley - shareholding of £3200.  For the cost of an all-inclusive family holiday in the sun, he's managed to secure a position on our board and is in a position of influence where he can tell the real owners of the club, i.e us as fans, to 'shut up'.  Last year he increased his stakeholding (the only one of the board to do so) from £2000, a cost of £1200.  I dare say there are members of this forum who spent more on GTFC in the last year than £1200.  I would also query that after the cost of his entry to the games, presuming directors don't pay to go through the gate like you and I, plus no doubt his corporate benefits each game (food, drinks, utilising club property for business connections/networking) how much he's actually contributed?

Michael Chapman - £500.  That's his place on the board.  I haven't seen or heard from him in a while.  Is he still active?  Does he still attend games?   His shareholding hasn't adjusted in two years, in fact for a while as I recall, he's basically bought himself a long-term season ticket for £500.    Can I have one please?

Commercial Income - Down £6k
Other Income - Down £400.

Why?  Is anyone looking at this and querying what the hell we're doing as a club and how we can improve on it?

For me, we have people on the board of directors for one of two reasons, in an ideal world they would provide both.  They're either cash rich and are prepared to invest in the club or they've got business acumen/knowledge or contacts who can improve the club.

None of our directors are investing in the club.  £1200 last year.  That's 24 replica shirts worth.  400 matchday programmes.  Looking at the practically stagnant commercial and other income figures, they're not providing an expertise either.  I think it's Philip Day who provides legal advice so that may be his contribution.  

Let's put this in very simple terms.  This board are doing nothing.  NOTHING.  The club is running on auto-pilot into a slow and painful demise.  It's the same old crappy marketing campaigns that have no impact.  It's the same every time.

Get your season ticket!  Why?  Err, well here's a picture of the manager.  
Pack the park! Why?  Err, here's a picture of Mitch Rose celebrating last season.

There's nothing ever done that's different or encouraging to get people involved.  We're not even stagnating, we're regressing on their watch.  Time to go, John.  You and your mob.  You're killing this club.  Time to let someone else have a go.  Before anyone asks who else is going to put money in, look at the accounts.  The only people putting money in are me and you, the fans who blindly troop through the gate every game.  


The club is on life support, nothing more. Having failed to make a go of it Mr. Fenty seems to be clinging on whilst all investment seems to have stopped. It has been obvious for a long time but the latest disclosures simply confirm what is obvious - the club needs investment in all areas. I thought that was Mr. Fenty's job to either provide it or secure it, but apparently not.

How he gets such an easy ride is beyond me.
Posted by: Gaffer58, November 8, 2018, 10:04am; Reply: 9
Also for away games involving an overnight stay are certain board members having a freebie, or are they paying their own accommodation?
Posted by: ska face, November 8, 2018, 10:14am; Reply: 10
I'm not sure a few nights for 3 blokes in a Premier Inn is a major concern here - not that it happens (think that this has already been confirmed).


DHM has it right, completely. Where are these people adding value to the club? Same question could be asked of many senior members of staff (the old boys network). The fans aspire to better things, we're being held back and that is why people are fed up.
Posted by: Rob_in_Grimsby, November 8, 2018, 10:18am; Reply: 11
Quoted from Gaffer58
Also for away games involving an overnight stay are certain board members having a freebie, or are they paying their own accommodation?


Certain board members as you put it dont do overnight stays but travel up on the day.
Posted by: Bigdog, November 8, 2018, 10:23am; Reply: 12
It's there in black and white in the accounts. The goal is to prudently invest in the playing squad for GTFC to remain an established Football League club while working towards relocating to a new stadium. Hope that gets everyone else's pulses racing too for the next five or ten years minimum! As EFL money equates to a third of our income, we seem to be playing fast and loose with our league status, just doing enough to manage what we have and having a close knit circle to protect JF's interests while not reaching out for inward investment which would bring a dilution in control and protection of the said interests. The compromise for this is that it's to the detriment of the hopes and enjoyment of the fan base who are yet again the ones that enable the club to operate season after season. It is also a stark reality that there are not any notes regarding to the club looking for significant inward investment which in its present state must be priority number one surely if the current board's only aim is to remain a Football League club. No mention of a grand plan to be a Championship club in what is now just under four years time and no mention of the plan to pay down the director's loan account which is happening as we speak and plays a significant part of the reason why the incumbents are still the incumbents in charge of the direction of the club. God knows where we would be if Bogle had a bad injury before he got sold.

Looking at the accounts from a business point of view, the club lives within its means and is managed well in the way of ensuring that it exists in the same way it does season after season. Nothing more, nothing less. But it's not just a business, it's a football club which is in the entertainment business and therein lies the problem. The club is doing nothing to improve the product and nothing to progress while others are leaving us behind.

It's also worth noting that the accounts are for the end of May 2018 and show that there was 724k cash in the bank. That was then and not necessarily now. The club may have invested significantly more into the playing budget or could have paid off another significant chunk of the "benign loans" within the past six months. We won't know until next year's accounts.

I'm sure the board think they're doing their best for the club while protecting JF's interests at the same time, but is it really in the interests of the paying public? If you're just happy that you've still got a Football League club to support then you've got to be happy with these accounts. If you want more than that, you know, a bit of pride, entertainment, hope and a plan for a brighter future or excitement, then you've either stopped going already, thinking about stopping going or feeling fairly detached and that following the Mariners is a chore and a labour of love nowadays..
Posted by: denni266, November 8, 2018, 10:26am; Reply: 13
Lets face it. Fenty and his  yes john anything you command, john band of skint hangers on, do not see this as anything else than a LOOK AT ME ,[I AM A DIRECTOR OF A FOOTBALL CLUB]. Imo he wont sell as he just loves it being in charge and sitting in his seat thinking he is lording it over every one  with that silly grin on his face
Posted by: Rob_in_Grimsby, November 8, 2018, 10:36am; Reply: 14
Quoted from diehardmariner
Right,

So £1.8 million in loans add to his shareholding of £975,000.    That means his hold over the club is £2,775,000.   I think he would be very cheeky to ask for that considering that during his tenure we've seen a, to paraphrase the man himself, a devaluing of the product.  But if that's what it is, it's what it is.  Let's go with that figure.  Who's got that hiding down the back of the settee?

Other things that stand out to me, note I'm reading it completely as a novice...

S.Marley - shareholding of £3200.  For the cost of an all-inclusive family holiday in the sun, he's managed to secure a position on our board and is in a position of influence where he can tell the real owners of the club, i.e us as fans, to 'shut up'.  Last year he increased his stakeholding (the only one of the board to do so) from £2000, a cost of £1200.  I dare say there are members of this forum who spent more on GTFC in the last year than £1200.  I would also query that after the cost of his entry to the games, presuming directors don't pay to go through the gate like you and I, plus no doubt his corporate benefits each game (food, drinks, utilising club property for business connections/networking) how much he's actually contributed?

Michael Chapman - £500.  That's his place on the board.  I haven't seen or heard from him in a while.  Is he still active?  Does he still attend games?   His shareholding hasn't adjusted in two years, in fact for a while as I recall, he's basically bought himself a long-term season ticket for £500.    Can I have one please?

Commercial Income - Down £6k
Other Income - Down £400.

Why?  Is anyone looking at this and querying what the hell we're doing as a club and how we can improve on it?

For me, we have people on the board of directors for one of two reasons, in an ideal world they would provide both.  They're either cash rich and are prepared to invest in the club or they've got business acumen/knowledge or contacts who can improve the club.

None of our directors are investing in the club.  £1200 last year.  That's 24 replica shirts worth.  400 matchday programmes.  Looking at the practically stagnant commercial and other income figures, they're not providing an expertise either.  I think it's Philip Day who provides legal advice so that may be his contribution.  

Let's put this in very simple terms.  This board are doing nothing.  NOTHING.  The club is running on auto-pilot into a slow and painful demise.  It's the same old crappy marketing campaigns that have no impact.  It's the same every time.

Get your season ticket!  Why?  Err, well here's a picture of the manager.  
Pack the park! Why?  Err, here's a picture of Mitch Rose celebrating last season.

There's nothing ever done that's different or encouraging to get people involved.  We're not even stagnating, we're regressing on their watch.  Time to go, John.  You and your mob.  You're killing this club.  Time to let someone else have a go.  Before anyone asks who else is going to put money in, look at the accounts.  The only people putting money in are me and you, the fans who blindly troop through the gate every game.  



The 1.8 mil is slightly less as I believe Mike Chapman has about a 100k Directors loan in the club and I also believe the Mullens also have loans in the club as well but I am not sure of that figure.
Posted by: ginnywings, November 8, 2018, 10:40am; Reply: 15
I think it also needs pointing out that the people on the board presumably offer their time and expertise for free,whatever you may think of the job they are doing, good or bad. I think Mr Day is a solicitor and Mr Marley is an accountant, so i presume they are doing these functions gratis. I'm not going to be up in arms about them getting a free match pass and a bit of scran. I've no idea what Mr Chapman does, but he must be a ripe old age by now, so i presume not a lot. Mr Wood is the Trust representative. None of them are wealthy enough to put any sort of meaningful amounts of money into the club, apart from Mr Fenty, and i don't think he is going to any more, beyond what he has already contributed, and what he has lodged as a guarantee at the bank.

What i do know is that there is a them and us situation that has developed at the club, and for a lot of fans, myself included, we no longer feel that connection to the club that we once had. I find supporting GTFC more of a duty and a chore than i ever thought i would, and i don't feel enthused by anyone, on or off the pitch.

The only ray of hope for me is the Mariners Trust and the possibility of it somehow growing it's involvement in the running of the club in a way that connects it back to the fan base. It doesn't seem though, that there is the will among the Trust board members to go down this route, so it all looks a bit of a stalemate, with stale being the operative word.
Posted by: Cloudy, November 8, 2018, 11:04am; Reply: 16
Quoted from Rob_in_Grimsby



The 1.8 mil is slightly less as I believe Mike Chapman has about a 100k Directors loan in the club and I also believe the Mullens also have loans in the club as well but I am not sure of that figure.


The last time Mr Chapmans Directors loan was mentioned it amounted to something like £20k
Posted by: Bigdog, November 8, 2018, 11:35am; Reply: 17
Quoted from Rob_in_Grimsby



The 1.8 mil is slightly less as I believe Mike Chapman has about a 100k Directors loan in the club and I also believe the Mullens also have loans in the club as well but I am not sure of that figure.


I'm fairly sure that the money owed (if it still is) to the now non-director Lee Mullen has been moved out of the directors loan account into other creditors, so it is fairly safe to assume that the 1.8m in the directors loan account barring a "quid or two" is owed solely to JF..
Posted by: Rob_in_Grimsby, November 8, 2018, 11:51am; Reply: 18
Quoted from Cloudy


The last time Mr Chapmans Directors loan was mentioned it amounted to something like £20k


He has in the past put two loans in as far as I an aware one back when him and John Elsom ( may be spelt wrong) joined the board and another loan a few years ago. Again only hearsay but i do know its 80 to 100 k in total.
Posted by: The Old Codger, November 8, 2018, 12:27pm; Reply: 19
Quoted from Rob_in_Grimsby


He has in the past put two loans in as far as I an aware one back when him and John Elsom ( may be spelt wrong) joined the board and another loan a few years ago. Again only hearsay but i do know its 80 to 100 k in total.


Perhaps someone in officialdom might care to clarify (not that I'm doubting you) but, if ever a set of accounts came out looking more stale than this lot then I haven't seen them.

Mr Marley doesn't do the accountancy - it's done by Weaver Wroot.
Posted by: The Old Codger, November 8, 2018, 1:05pm; Reply: 20
Quoted from Cloudy
Reduction in directors loans by £200k. Not disclosed if this is a reduction in JF's support or say, repayment to Mr & Mrs Mullen?

Made a loss on £33k on 'player trading' compared with £826k profit the orevious year.

JF's shareholding = £975k


I think it's unlikely to involve the Mullens as they left the club in Jan 2017
Posted by: Cloudy, November 8, 2018, 1:22pm; Reply: 21
Quoted from The Old Codger


I think it's unlikely to involve the Mullens as they left the club in Jan 2017


They did but there is an agreement that Directors cannot be repaid any loan monies unless 'the club can afford to do so'.

Whether or not the club could afford to do so (then or now) is not something I would be able to judge but the whole matter may be subject to legal recourse anyway
Posted by: friskneymariner, November 8, 2018, 2:20pm; Reply: 22
As the accounts include the bank balance at 31st May 2018 I assume the payoff to Slade,but not the Dembele money is accounted for.Basically figures are meaningless without some narrative.
Posted by: barralad, November 8, 2018, 2:32pm; Reply: 23
Quoted from friskneymariner
As the accounts include the bank balance at 31st May 2018 I assume the payoff to Slade,but not the Dembele money is accounted for.Basically figures are meaningless without some narrative.


Dembele didnt leave until well into the close season so I expect to see the money for him feature next year.
Posted by: Cloudy, November 8, 2018, 2:41pm; Reply: 24
Quoted from barralad


Dembele didnt leave until well into the close season so I expect to see the money for him feature next year.


£100k? Probably gone on wages/signing on fees for the summer signings
Posted by: friskneymariner, November 8, 2018, 2:41pm; Reply: 25
Thats my point Barra if the accounts ran from July to July it would have probably showed a profit.
Posted by: golfer, November 8, 2018, 3:23pm; Reply: 26
Quoted from The Old Codger


Perhaps someone in officialdom might care to clarify (not that I'm doubting you) but, if ever a set of accounts came out looking more stale than this lot then I haven't seen them.

Mr Marley doesn't do the accountancy - it's done by Weaver Wroot.


Is that the same thing Codger  ?
Posted by: The Old Codger, November 8, 2018, 3:33pm; Reply: 27
Quoted from golfer


Is that the same thing Codger  ?


Mr Marley is only a consultant at Weaver Wroot & any involvement with the auditing process would be a conflict of interest with his directorship of GTFC
Posted by: golfer, November 8, 2018, 5:11pm; Reply: 28
Mr Chapman got 80/1 winner at Market Rasen today-maybe going to put more in the kitty.
Posted by: H19P1, November 8, 2018, 5:38pm; Reply: 29
A huge FA cup run would be great to boost the accounts 🙂
Posted by: HertsGTFC, November 8, 2018, 8:44pm; Reply: 30
I’m not an accountant but I know one end of a P&L and balance sheet from the other I don’t need to read the accounts just watch the games to know there is not enough money coming in and the opportunity for capex is non existent.

I don’t expect people to throw good money after bad but it feels like looking at our decline on the pitch and as a club we’ve been doing that ever since JF arrived, maybe the self anointed “custodians of the club” as they have called themselves aught to put a bit more in to pay for their position?

I’d suggest the same % ratio of their weekly surplus income that the loyal folks who travel on Terry’s bus all season long should do it.
Posted by: barralad, November 8, 2018, 9:38pm; Reply: 31
Quoted from friskneymariner
Thats my point Barra if the accounts ran from July to July it would have probably showed a profit.


Yeah sorry I get that...I was trying to back you up  :o
Posted by: KingstonMariner, November 8, 2018, 10:11pm; Reply: 32
Quoted from Bigdog


It's also worth noting that the accounts are for the end of May 2018 and show that there was 724k cash in the bank. That was then and not necessarily now. The club may have invested significantly more into the playing budget or could have paid off another significant chunk of the "benign loans" within the past six months. We won't know until next year's accounts.


That 'cash at bank and in the hand' figure is a bit of a red herring in that regard. It's just a temporary parking place. It would be used to cover current liabilities (i.e. creditors that have got to be paid for in the next 12 months).

The largest of these is the Directors' Loans, as these are 'benign' these are going to be demanded otherwise the club is at risk of folding.

The Director's Loans have gone down by £200,000 from the year before. Which in turn went down by £209,000 the previous year. At this rate we've only got another 9 years to go!
Posted by: friskneymariner, November 8, 2018, 11:09pm; Reply: 33
But at the end of May 2018 season ticket revenues would not be in,neither would I imagine would be league payments or broadcast revenue somewhat puzzled  as to why there was 724k at that stage of the season or am I missing something.
Posted by: KingstonMariner, November 8, 2018, 11:16pm; Reply: 34
Quoted from friskneymariner
But at the end of May 2018 season ticket revenues would not be in,neither would I imagine would be league payments or broadcast revenue somewhat puzzled  as to why there was 724k at that stage of the season or am I missing something.


Maybe it includes money from the Bogle transfer. The revenue would have been recognised in the 2017 accounts but the actual cash mightn't have rolled in until the following financial year.
Posted by: KingstonMariner, November 8, 2018, 11:31pm; Reply: 35
Also if you look at Debtors, that's gone down by £722,000 on 2017. I guess Trade Debtors includes other clubs. Might also include Media companies.
Posted by: KingstonMariner, November 8, 2018, 11:41pm; Reply: 36
An interesting thing to note (interesting to me anyway) is how ticket sales only account for 1/3 of total income. So even at our level, fans are less directly important in money terms. Though they'll also account for a large chunk of commercial income and media (iFollow).

The breakdown is:

Matchday                      £1,075,000  (34%)
Media                            £1,030,000  (32%)
Commercial & Other     £1,092,000  (34%)
Total                             £3,197,000 (100%)
Posted by: Cloudy, November 9, 2018, 6:35am; Reply: 37
Quoted from friskneymariner
But at the end of May 2018 season ticket revenues would not be in,neither would I imagine would be league payments or broadcast revenue somewhat puzzled  as to why there was 724k at that stage of the season or am I missing something.


season tickets WERE on sale in May for the first time in many years, if at all so this MAY account for the cash at hand
Posted by: friskneymariner, November 9, 2018, 10:16am; Reply: 38
Quoted from Cloudy


season tickets WERE on sale in May for the first time in many years, if at all so this MAY account for the cash at hand


That would equate to about 2,500 season tickets you really believe we sold that many by end of May.
Posted by: KingstonMariner, November 9, 2018, 10:47am; Reply: 39
Quoted from Cloudy


season tickets WERE on sale in May for the first time in many years, if at all so this MAY account for the cash at hand


A small amount maybe. But most is likely because of payment of debts by people who owed us money (Wigan instalments on Bogle, media companies/League TV money).
Posted by: friskneymariner, November 9, 2018, 10:58am; Reply: 40
Did we get any money for Jones and Osbourne .
Posted by: FishOutOfWater, November 9, 2018, 1:55pm; Reply: 41
Quoted from H19P1
A huge FA cup run would be great to boost the accounts 🙂


That shows in our "  5 year master plan " doesn't it.... under footballing fortune?  ::)
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