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Should probably mean that we see Vernam more down the middle which may be worth a try as he hasn't looked effective playing from wide areas. I'd imagine Thomas will then be the most advanced striker, even if it isn't really his game.

As Hooper is no use playing through the middle as the main striker, how long until Cardwell is back to offer a meatier option?

Quoted from chaos33

Hamstring pull. Not usually quick.

Is it hamstring? MJ said after the game it was his thigh and shouldn’t be too bad.

Was definitely a hammy. Overstretched for a high ball in the area and tried running it off for maybe 30 seconds before he went down the first time.

Quoted from Cloudy

Impact injuries are an occupational hazard but hamstring pulls/strains should be avoided in this day and age with an S&C coach in situ.

You're not serious?

There's not a strength & conditioning coach on the planet, or anything for that matter that can eradicate hamstring strains or pulls from happening. It's a physiological response to over-stretching, lunging for the ball etc that unless you limit the players ability to do that, will always be a risk of occurring, regardless of match preparation.

Pulled hamstring = 3 weeks

Unless I'm missing them, the updates surrounding injuries are virtually non-existent at the minute.

All I can recall seeing about Cardwell is that he overdid it in the gym before returning for pre-season and about a month ago he was at St George's Park to aid his recovery. Since then, nothing.

Quoted from Mighty_Mariner

You're not serious?

There's not a strength & conditioning coach on the planet, or anything for that matter that can eradicate hamstring strains or pulls from happening. It's a physiological response to over-stretching, lunging for the ball etc that unless you limit the players ability to do that, will always be a risk of occurring, regardless of match preparation.

I am very serious, not saying they cannot happen but we seem to be getting a hell of a lot of niggles,pulls etc and one of the primary roles of the S&C coach is preventing these types of injuries

Quoted from diehardmariner

Unless I'm missing them, the updates surrounding injuries are virtually non-existent at the minute.

All I can recall seeing about Cardwell is that he overdid it in the gym before returning for pre-season and about a month ago he was at St George's Park to aid his recovery. Since then, nothing.

All injury situations covered at the start of the Oldam pre match interview.

https://www.grimsby-townfc.co.uk/news/2018/september/freeview--michael-jolley-pre-oldham-athletic/

Quoted from Maringer

Should probably mean that we see Vernam more down the middle which may be worth a try as he hasn't looked effective playing from wide areas. I'd imagine Thomas will then be the most advanced striker, even if it isn't really his game.

As Hooper is no use playing through the middle as the main striker, how long until Cardwell is back to offer a meatier option?

It's all about finding the best partnership, whilst I'm not a massive fan of Hooper I wouldn't rule out him and Thomas playing together just yet as they haven't played together as a two yet.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Thank you.

No probs. We can add Cook to that list as well now.

I think all the injuries and suspensions, coupled with us playing mainly teams who have started the season well, has somewhat skewed things, and we seem to be chasing our tails a bit at the moment. If we are still struggling when they are all back and match fit, then that's the time to start panicking.

Agreed.

I've said before I think the loss of Cardwell is huge.  He was absolutely key to our turnaround last season and is the only thing we've got that resembles a target-man in the building.

Cardwell, Hall-Johnson, Fox, Pringle, Embleton, Thomas.  That's six guys who are either unavailable at the minute or shaking off ring-rust.  Even if four of them can make impacts it changes the landscape altogether.

What system they would fit into I'm not so sure.  Our lack of width and large number of central midfielders makes me think going back to 3-5-2 would be best.  But I'm not convinced Fox is a wing-back.  With wingers, Pringle could perhaps work the left flank and then Clifton/Woolford on the right - or even Max Wright when back from loan.

But unless we're going with a single man up top and two supporting from wide, it means a two-man central midfield which doesn't really fit the players we've got in my opinion.  Welsh is best when protecting the defence and allowing full-backs to push on.  The single man in attack also only really points to Cardwell and then means Vernam, Cook and Thomas aren't involved.

At this minute in time I think I would go for a 4-3-3 but with a lot and switching about and interchanging up top, probably between Cook, Thomas and Cardwell.  Midfield 3 of Welsh, Pringle and Hessenthaler.

Hall-Johnson Davis Famewo Fox
   Hessenthaler Welsh Pringle
   Cardwell Thomas Cook

Something like that.

Dont consider Clifton as a wingback, he was poor playing there earlier in the season.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Agreed.

I've said before I think the loss of Cardwell is huge.  He was absolutely key to our turnaround last season and is the only thing we've got that resembles a target-man in the building.

Cardwell, Hall-Johnson, Fox, Pringle, Embleton, Thomas.  That's six guys who are either unavailable at the minute or shaking off ring-rust.  Even if four of them can make impacts it changes the landscape altogether.

What system they would fit into I'm not so sure.  Our lack of width and large number of central midfielders makes me think going back to 3-5-2 would be best.  But I'm not convinced Fox is a wing-back.  With wingers, Pringle could perhaps work the left flank and then Clifton/Woolford on the right - or even Max Wright when back from loan.

But unless we're going with a single man up top and two supporting from wide, it means a two-man central midfield which doesn't really fit the players we've got in my opinion.  Welsh is best when protecting the defence and allowing full-backs to push on.  The single man in attack also only really points to Cardwell and then means Vernam, Cook and Thomas aren't involved.

At this minute in time I think I would go for a 4-3-3 but with a lot and switching about and interchanging up top, probably between Cook, Thomas and Cardwell.  Midfield 3 of Welsh, Pringle and Hessenthaler.

Hall-Johnson Davis Famewo Fox
   Hessenthaler Welsh Pringle
   Cardwell Thomas Cook

Something like that.

dont agree sadly

I somehow do not see Cardwell as the saviour

Would like at some point in the very near future to see Cook, Vernham, Thomas and A rose shoe horned into a forward attack...pace, power, determination and from what I've seen so far plenty of ability/quality..

Quoted from diehardmariner

Agreed.

I've said before I think the loss of Cardwell is huge.  He was absolutely key to our turnaround last season and is the only thing we've got that resembles a target-man in the building.

Cardwell, Hall-Johnson, Fox, Pringle, Embleton, Thomas.  That's six guys who are either unavailable at the minute or shaking off ring-rust.  Even if four of them can make impacts it changes the landscape altogether.

What system they would fit into I'm not so sure.  Our lack of width and large number of central midfielders makes me think going back to 3-5-2 would be best.  But I'm not convinced Fox is a wing-back.  With wingers, Pringle could perhaps work the left flank and then Clifton/Woolford on the right - or even Max Wright when back from loan.

But unless we're going with a single man up top and two supporting from wide, it means a two-man central midfield which doesn't really fit the players we've got in my opinion.  Welsh is best when protecting the defence and allowing full-backs to push on.  The single man in attack also only really points to Cardwell and then means Vernam, Cook and Thomas aren't involved.

At this minute in time I think I would go for a 4-3-3 but with a lot and switching about and interchanging up top, probably between Cook, Thomas and Cardwell.  Midfield 3 of Welsh, Pringle and Hessenthaler.

Hall-Johnson Davis Famewo Fox
   Hessenthaler Welsh Pringle
   Cardwell Thomas Cook

Something like that.

Absolute rubbish, trys hard but does not cut it at this level sadly along with Hooper and Robles

I don't think Cardwell is brilliant by any means but I think many underestimate what a reasonably mobile and hard-working big bloke up front can do in unsettling the opposition defence and therefore creating space for teammates.

Cardwell played pretty much every game under Jolley last season and I don't think it was coincidence that we saw the best of Hooper when he was playing. Lacking anybody else with a similar physical presence in the squad, it wouldn't surprise me if he made an immediate return to the team when fit. If Cardwell can create some space for the likes of Thomas, Cook, Vernam and perhaps Hooper, does it really matter if he doesn't get many himself?

Quoted from denni266

I somehow do not see Cardwell as the saviour

Cardwell might be more of a saviour if he had a goal or two in him. Sadly he hasn't and probably offers even less than Hooper (but possibly more than Robles)

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Cardwell might be more of a saviour if he had a goal or two in him. Sadly he hasn't and probably offers even less than Hooper (but possibly more than Robles)

Only if you expect forwards to score goals but do absolutely nothing else. In lower division football, especially, there are a lot of decent forwards (I won't use the word 'striker') who don't score very many, but help their teams to win games. I'm hoping Cardwell can become one of these types, though it would be better if he scored a few as well.

I don't doubt Steve Livingstone would be slagged off by some in the modern era for not scoring enough goals.

Quoted from Maringer

Only if you expect forwards to score goals but do absolutely nothing else. In lower division football, especially, there are a lot of decent forwards (I won't use the word 'striker') who don't score very many, but help their teams to win games. I'm hoping Cardwell can become one of these types, though it would be better if he scored a few as well.

I don't doubt Steve Livingstone would be slagged off by some in the modern era for not scoring enough goals.

Livvo score 58 goals in 362 senior appearances - Cardwell has 0 in 26. I don't think they should be discussed in the same vein.

Livingstone didn't score any goals during his first few seasons as a professional either, though he was obviously a better player and at a higher level.

Regardless, I'm not trying to discuss Livingstone's career, just pointing out you don't need to score 20 goals or even 10 goals in a season to be a useful forward if you're doing a job for the team.

Let's put it this way. I thought that JLAA and LJL were good lower division forwards. Some didn't and probably still don't despite the fact that both have spent most of their careers playing at a higher level level than us. I'm obviously not the only one who thinks they were good lower division forwards, despite their relative lack of goals.

Cardwell ....suffers from injuries....hasnt kicked a ball in anger for some time...dont see him walking back into the team anytime soon or being anywhere near match fit once/ if he becomes injury free.

Spoke to a guy a few weeks ago who used to coach/scout at professional level and he said Cardwell as a 15 yr old was unbelievable and highly sought after. I like the look of him but just have one of those recurring feelings that we wont really ever see anything significant of him in a Town shirt.

I love to see a player labelled as not good enough, when he is 21 and has played about 2 dozen games in his entire career. :-/

Quoted from ginnywings

I love to see a player labelled as not good enough, when he is 21 and has played about 2 dozen games in his entire career. :-/

It's not that he hasn't got potential - it's that he hasn't really shown enough to suggest that he may be our saviour.

Cardwell has some great raw attributes; strength, height, a bit of pace and stamina. He showed on trial last season that he can score so I think he needs a run in the team to prove himself.

He's been at some very good clubs in his short career so there is definitely something there. If we can get something out of him this season and for him down for another couple of years, we might just get a decent fee for him.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Cardwell has some great raw attributes; strength, height, a bit of pace and stamina. He showed on trial last season that he can score so I think he needs a run in the team to prove himself.

He's been at some very good clubs in his short career so there is definitely something there. If we can get something out of him this season and for him down for another couple of years, we might just get a decent fee for him.

I think you are being wildly optimistic there.

I think I read earlier that Cardwell was "fantastic" as a young prospect and no doubt scored goals for fun. This happens a lot; at a young age they look world beaters but then don't progress at the same rate. He now finds himself at a club at the bottom end of league 2, and despite his obvious endeavour hasn't looked remotely like scoring.

I wish him well, and from what we have seen so far he could be a decent squad player, but I have my doubts he could be a regular who might go on to greater things.

Mind you, I have been wrong many many times before* so you never know.

* Like when I was convinced Ryan Bennett would not make the grade when for the umpteenth time he shanked a "pass" into the Lower Smiths.
** Like when I first saw Kevin Drinkell make his debut and thought nah.
***Like when I saw John McDermott make his debut at Bradford and thought - he is too small and not good enough.

On all other occasions my first impressions have been spot on ;D

Quoted from Maringer

Livingstone didn't score any goals during his first few seasons as a professional either, though he was obviously a better player and at a higher level.

Regardless, I'm not trying to discuss Livingstone's career, just pointing out you don't need to score 20 goals or even 10 goals in a season to be a useful forward if you're doing a job for the team.

Let's put it this way. I thought that JLAA and LJL were good lower division forwards. Some didn't and probably still don't despite the fact that both have spent most of their careers playing at a higher level level than us. I'm obviously not the only one who thinks they were good lower division forwards, despite their relative lack of goals.

Strikers don't have to score 20 goals to be successful but you need someone in the side who at least has the potential to chip in what that many. I don't think there is anyone in the squad who has ever showed they have what it takes to do more than just about hit double figures.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I think you are being wildly optimistic there.

I think I read earlier that Cardwell was "fantastic" as a young prospect and no doubt scored goals for fun. This happens a lot; at a young age they look world beaters but then don't progress at the same rate. He now finds himself at a club at the bottom end of league 2, and despite his obvious endeavour hasn't looked remotely like scoring.

I wish him well, and from what we have seen so far he could be a decent squad player, but I have my doubts he could be a regular who might go on to greater things.

Mind you, I have been wrong many many times before* so you never know.

* Like when I was convinced Ryan Bennett would not make the grade when for the umpteenth time he shanked a "pass" into the Lower Smiths.
** Like when I first saw Kevin Drinkell make his debut and thought nah.
***Like when I saw John McDermott make his debut at Bradford and thought - he is too small and not good enough.

On all other occasions my first impressions have been spot on ;D

Three misjudgements in 98 years is pretty good going.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

It's not that he hasn't got potential - it's that he hasn't really shown enough to suggest that he may be our saviour.

Not saying he will be our saviour, but he may develop into a decent player given time, or he may not. We simply don't know at this stage, and that's the point i am making. To expect someone of his age, with the limited games he has played, to cure our scoring problems is fanciful at best. If he was a regular goalscorer at his age, he wouldn't have ended up here.

Quoted from ginnywings

Not saying he will be our saviour, but he may develop into a decent player given time, or he may not. We simply don't know at this stage, and that's the point i am making. To expect someone of his age, with the limited games he has played, to cure our scoring problems is fanciful at best. If he was a regular goalscorer at his age, he wouldn't have ended up here.

And I was pointing out that some people have unreasonably high expectations!

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Cardwell has some great raw attributes; strength, height, a bit of pace and stamina. He showed on trial last season that he can score so I think he needs a run in the team to prove himself.

He's been at some very good clubs in his short career so there is definitely something there. If we can get something out of him this season and for him down for another couple of years, we might just get a decent fee for him.

I can remember a time....... a long long time ago when we could hang on to players that were half decent instead of selling them to keep the club afloat :-/

Quoted from GrimRob

Strikers don't have to score 20 goals to be successful but you need someone in the side who at least has the potential to chip in what that many. I don't think there is anyone in the squad who has ever showed they have what it takes to do more than just about hit double figures.

Thomas scored 18 league goals in his last 4th division season. A number of years ago now but he has been playing one or two divisions higher since then.

Quoted from Maringer

Livingstone didn't score any goals during his first few seasons as a professional either, though he was obviously a better player and at a higher level.

Regardless, I'm not trying to discuss Livingstone's career, just pointing out you don't need to score 20 goals or even 10 goals in a season to be a useful forward if you're doing a job for the team.

Let's put it this way. I thought that JLAA and LJL were good lower division forwards. Some didn't and probably still don't despite the fact that both have spent most of their careers playing at a higher level level than us. I'm obviously not the only one who thinks they were good lower division forwards, despite their relative lack of goals.

Thanks :)

Crikey, the writing off of Cardwell is a bit harsh isn't it?  Especially given his age, experience and the fact he's made 8 league starts for us.

I don't think anyone is claiming he's our saviour, just that he offered something at the back of end of last season that we've since failed to replicate in his absence.  I don't think any of Cook, Vernam, Hooper or Thomas are strikers in the mould of leading the line.  Cook is hard working and will chase everything but with all due respect I would expect most professionals to be capable of doing that.  He doesn't have the physical attributes nor the intelligence of his movement to do that, just not his game.

Using two of our recent strikers, Amond led the line brilliantly because he had the know-how with his movement and anticipation of play to make sure he was there where the ball went.  LJL used his physical attributes to react to where the ball went and hustled and bustled to win back possession and press sides into making mistakes.  Cardwell very much falls into the LJL category, he enables other stuff to happen because he does the donkey work.  A point was made about Hooper when working with Cardwell, which I completely agree with.

Is Cardwell the answer to all our problems?  Probably not.  I think he's a talented youngster who with some coaching and developing could become a very good player, but at the minute he's also our most likely striker to lead the line.  The fact Jolley hasn't brought in anyone else to lead the line and has utilised Cook (who has spent most of his career in a much deeper role) suggests he may think the same, or he's got his recruitment very wrong.

Cardwell has a lot of qualities that we need to nurture. Like other Town players over the years though, He gets better when he is not playing.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Crikey, the writing off of Cardwell is a bit harsh isn't it? Especially given his age, experience and the fact he's made 8 league starts for us.

.

I think that's the issue....8 starts out of a possible ....50 odd potential games ?

With our goal record over the same period being pretty poor then stats like that are a good indicator that he either isn't forcing himself into the side by being better than the other strikers... or he has been unavailable due to injuries for long periods....i think its probably 70/30 injury to talent at this moment but like a few recent players that have passed through i just don't envisage him ever being fully fit and subsequently not effective enough to command a place.

That I'm aware he was available for pretty much all of Slade's reign. It was just that Slade opted to not pick him, instead preferring the potent strikeforce of Scott Vernon and JJ Hooper.

Fair enough, in normal circumstances you question why a player can't break through into a poor side but in the case of with Slade at the helm I think you just have to take it with a pinch of salt.