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Lineker started to say how well England played and I turned it off.

The New England? Same as the Old England. Against a very poor side it was so slow, back sideways, back, down the line cross, no end product.

IF Tunisia hadn't mistaken Kane for one of theirs with his beard and left him unmarked twice at dead balls we would have been clobbered.

Sterling wasted virtually every opportunity he had with the ball. People may say the crosses were poor from Lingard & co. but it was the lack of movement from the players in the box that made them look so bad. Nobody ever went to the near post at all during the game so every cross was easy for the defence.

Thank God it's Panama next and not Belgium.

Quoted from Ipswin

Well we don't deserve that !

We must have bored them into submission

Don't deserve it???

Did you watch the same game. We could have been 3 or 4 nil up in the first half, plus 2 blatant penalties not given. Pickford didn't have a save to make did he?

Those cynical Tunisians got what they deserved. intercourse all!

Do you have to take an intelligence test to become and England player? And get rejected if you pass it? How many times did they attempt to pass it to a player with two men on, or kick it into one of their players when there were 345 other points of the compass in which to knock the ball. "It doesn't matter how many times I kick it into one of those blokes in a different coloured shirt, it never goes through him."

Oh, well I suppose we won.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

In the words of the immortal Tommy Trinder, “You lucky people!” ;)

God you must be knocking on a bit.... you'll be quoting Robb Wilton next!

Quoted from Les Brechin

We should have been 3 or 4 nil up in the first half,

plus 2 blatant penalties not given.

Oh please, could have had but we weren't, we were shite in front of goal as usual.

Could have, should have, had the pennos, where have we heard that before?

I fully expect the heat, the midges, the referee, 'they were Africa's highest rated team' etc etc, absolutely anything and everything will be used as an excuse for the fact that we played like every other England team for years after the first quarter. Play it square, pass it back, hopeful hit down the line. Maguire looked the only one prepared to carry the ball and run at the opposition. The only difference was the average age of the team. Belgium will murder us and I don't expect we'll put Panama to the sword like we should.

Anyone catch the 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 song the fans was singing???

Quoted from Ipswin

Oh please, could have had but we weren't, we were shite in front of goal as usual.

Could have, should have, had the pennos, where have we heard that before?

I fully expect the heat, the midges, the referee, 'they were Africa's highest rated team' etc etc, absolutely anything and everything will be used as an excuse for the fact that we played like every other England team for years after the first quarter. Play it square, pass it back, hopeful hit down the line. Maguire looked the only one prepared to carry the ball and run at the opposition. The only difference was the average age of the team. Belgium will murder us and I don't expect we'll put Panama to the sword like we should.

You're only drunk off cos that late goal cost you 2 points in the Prediction League. ;)

That new striker coach should be on the first plane home.

Mind you he is a Scot so perhaps we should have known better.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

That new striker coach should be on the first plane home.

Mind you he is a Scot so perhaps we should have known better.

What ! How can you have a Scotsman who is a striker coach FFS ? Bit like having Slade running a managers course

Quoted from promotion plaice

We will win this game......trust me.

;)

Quoted from Mariner Timsky

Anyone catch the 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 song the fans was singing???

Sounded like the tune was this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBNewLDy3pQ

How many more times do England have to suffer from poor refereeing decisions FFS!.

At least three times Kane was wrestled to the ground but nothing is done by either the ref or VAR assistant. The to compound the errors he gives a very very soft penalty to them..

Anyone else notice how the ref failed to stop the Tunisians from letting us take free kicks quickly by blatantly standing in front of the ball when free kicks were given? I thought that the refs were suppose to clamp down on this to let the game flow.

Yet again we get the @rse end of sh1t refereeing at the World Cup. It happens too many times to us to be coincidence.

Quoted from mimma

How many more times do England have to suffer from poor refereeing decisions FFS!.

At least three times Kane was wrestled to the ground but nothing is done by either the ref or VAR assistant. The to compound the errors he gives a very very soft penalty to them..

Anyone else notice how the ref failed to stop the Tunisians from letting us take free kicks quickly by blatantly standing in front of the ball when free kicks were given? I thought that the refs were suppose to clamp down on this to let the game flow.

Yet again we get the @rse end of sh1t refereeing at the World Cup. It happens too many times to us to be coincidence.

That much is true. Soft as excrement with that stopping the quick free kicks. As for the rugby tackling.....

Tunisia were a disgrace. One of their players had the physio come on after being hit by the ball ffs, embarrassing. The ref was appalling, didn't stop them wasting time, gave a very dodgy penalty against England and missed two nailed on penalties against Kane. As noted above, he didn't stop them preventing a quick free kick once which is hugely frustrating.

England weren't good. Too ponderous, too sideways and no invention after the first 20 minutes. Lingard's finishing was horrendous and Rashford and Loftus-Cheek deserve to start the next game after Alli and Sterling were so ineffectual. Still, deserved the win because Tunisia were straight up cheats. No place in football for a team like that.

Kane apart, we have so little quality in the final third. It was embarrassing.

We had at least four great chances in the first half hour that players simply fluffed. Linguard was awful, Sterling abysmal. Neither player had a decent first touch. Just hopeless technique. We have seen better finishing than that in the Conference. Podge would have had a hat trick tonight with those gilt edged chances.

Do we really not have better players than Linguard and Sterling?

We will make it to the knock out stages but will be out the first time we come up against a half decent side. They say you can play your way into tournament, but you cant play your way into good technique,

Our players are simply not good enough at this level.

Quoted from mimma

How many more times do England have to suffer from poor refereeing decisions FFS!.

At least three times Kane was wrestled to the ground but nothing is done by either the ref or VAR assistant. The to compound the errors he gives a very very soft penalty to them..

Anyone else notice how the ref failed to stop the Tunisians from letting us take free kicks quickly by blatantly standing in front of the ball when free kicks were given? I thought that the refs were suppose to clamp down on this to let the game flow.

Yet again we get the @rse end of sh1t refereeing at the World Cup. It happens too many times to us to be coincidence.

Eurovision Song Contest springs to mind-everybody hates us.

Quoted from RonMariner

Kane apart, we have so little quality in the final third. It was embarrassing.

We had at least four great chances in the first half hour that players simply fluffed. Linguard was awful, Sterling abysmal. Neither player had a decent first touch. Just hopeless technique. We have seen better finishing than that in the Conference. Podge would have had a hat trick tonight with those gilt edged chances.

Do we really not have better players than Linguard and Sterling?

We will make it to the knock out stages but will be out the first time we come up against a half decent side. They say you can play your way into tournament, but you cant play your way into good technique,

Our players are simply not good enough at this level.

Do you genuinely think Ali and Lingard don’t have good technique based on what you’ve seen of them week in week out? I think your over reacting a fair bit tbh. Yes we were ponderous in the second half but at least we didn’t start lumping it in like we’ve done so often in the past. Kept our patience and got what we deserved against an awkward team and dubious ref. With the exception of Spain, Portugal and maybe Croatia none of the other teams have been any better than us. I think some people have too high expectations so will always be disappointed, we’re no world beaters so don’t expect to see world beating performances.

We are all moaning BUT, we have won our first game which is more than Brazil, Spain, Argentina, Germany and Portugal have done. VAR rescued France as opposed to tonight's game.

Up next is Panama, referees permitting, we win and we are through to the knockout stages. Meanwhile the Germans have a tough game against the Swedes to negotiate.

Typical England, the refereeing has been excellent up to tonight's game.

Yeah....we are all happy with the win now but........

That ref shouldn't be allowed near a football ground again.......denied us 2 clear cut penalties

Rose should replace Young, by far the better player.

Loftus cheek needs a chance as has never looked bad at all and Vardy in place of Sterling.

After a good nights sleep my thoughts are,

Terrible waste of chances in first 20 mins when we missed at least 3 good scoring chances,

We would be calling Town players if they missed those never mind international ones,

Poor ref but he was not helped by the VAR man so nothing new there then,

We deserved to win JUST but was only playing a poor team,

I would like to see Rashford in for Sterling who offered very little,

We will get out the group stage but lose as soon as we play a decent team,

Good thing is there are not a lot of decent teams in at the moment,

They might improve so we will need to if we are to have any chance of progressing.

Quoted from promotion plaice

Yeah....we are all happy with the win now but........

That ref shouldn't be allowed near a football ground again.......denied us 2 clear cut penalties

Don't blame the ref, it's the VAR to blame. Even if he did spot the incidents he may have been waiting for the call from the VAR boys.

Can't believe all the negative comments on here. I'm really not sure what people expect from this team. As far as I am aware nobody expected England to win this but this is a young squad, the youngest there, who played with more maturity then many of their much more renowned predecessors.

First 30 minutes we played some of the best stuff I'd seen from any team so far. Yes we squandered some very good chances and that will have to improve but the fact we created so many chances is a positive.

Tunisia pressed higher when we went a goal up and caused us a few problems but apart from Tunisia's penalty, I don't remember another threat on our goal in the entire match.

The 2nd half was different and there was no way we could continue with the same pace of the 1st half but this is were the maturity came into it. Previous England sides would have resorted to longer and longer balls, hopeful hoofs into the box but this side kept to their game plan.

England kept the ball, moved the opposition around and gradually wore them down without looking particularly dangerous. But then with the introductions of Rashford and Loftus-Cheek the tempo was picked up and England got their just deserts because Tunisia tired, allowing Kane to be unmarked to score.

Yes, there is room for improvement and no we aren't going to win it but, for me, that was a good performance against a Tunisia team who had some decent results in the build up including holding out against Spain for 84 minutes before losing 1-0.

It has become so fashionable to critcise England, people don't recognise a good performance when they see it.

Quoted from GrimRob

Even if he did spot the incidents he may have been waiting for the call from the VAR boys.

If that's how it works, what's the point in there being a ref on the pitch?!

Quoted from GrimRob

Don't blame the ref, it's the VAR to blame. Even if he did spot the incidents he may have been waiting for the call from the VAR boys.

If the ref did see it, then why the hell didn't he call it and wait for VAR to confirm it!

Might as well not have a ref on the pitch if we're going down that road and just use VAR.

I don't get this VAR stuff,

If they only point out clear and obvious misses by the ref,

How come we saw 2 clear penalties on Kane a few seconds after they were committed and the VAR man thought they were ok.

What do they have to do ?

Maybe swing an arm like Walker did ?

Quoted from Abdul19

If that's how it works, what's the point in there being a ref on the pitch?!

I don't think anybody knows how it works, They are making up the rules as they go along. In my opinion, to do it properly they need to slow the game down to give a chance for the correct decisions to be made. And stop the clock while that's happening. I know that would change the game but at the moment they are trying to have their cake and eat it by wanting a fast-flowing game and VAR.

How is VAR supposed to work? Does the ref have to ask for a review, like the umpires do in cricket, of do the VAR operators notify the ref when they see something?

I don't understand how those two assaults of Kane could go unnoticed or unpunished? They were far more deliberate than the incident which lead to the Tunisian penalty.

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

Do you genuinely think Ali and Lingard don’t have good technique based on what you’ve seen of them week in week out? I think your over reacting a fair bit tbh. Yes we were ponderous in the second half but at least we didn’t start lumping it in like we’ve done so often in the past. Kept our patience and got what we deserved against an awkward team and dubious ref. With the exception of Spain, Portugal and maybe Croatia none of the other teams have been any better than us. I think some people have too high expectations so will always be disappointed, we’re no world beaters so don’t expect to see world beating performances.

What I expect is for players who are paid tens of thousand a week to play football to at least be able to master the basics, i.e. hit a decent half volley, trap a ball, or pass to a team mate. Or not scuff shots from a few yards out. Is that really too much to ask from players that earn millions a year for plying their trade? It just basic technique. We would criticise L2 players for some of the ineptitude shown last night.

As for not lumping if forward, I saw endless hit an hope balls into the box, very few of which seemed designed to pick out a specific player. Luckily the ball twice broke kindly from a corner and fell to a guy who can take a chance when it's offered and showed great skill and composure in doing so.

I'm glad we managed to win, but I am disappointed at how poor some of our players were. I don't have an issue with Alli who I rate as a player but seemed to be carrying an injury, he certainly didn't look his usual self. But for me Sterling and Linguard in particular looked pretty dire.

I don't expect us to be world beaters. The reason is that we don't have the players good enough to be world beaters. But I do expect something rather better than we saw last night from certain players.

Quoted from monkeyboy

Rose should replace Young, by far the better player.

Loftus cheek needs a chance as has never looked bad at all and Vardy in place of Sterling.

I'd certainly much rather see Rose in than Young. Nothing particularly against Young, but you know he's always going to turn back inside onto his right foot and we needed more pace down the sides. They were sitting so deep that Rose would have had plenty of chances to break down the left.

I don't think that was the sort of game for Vardy as he thrives on space in behind. Rashford in for Sterling next game, I reckon and Loftus-Cheek for Alli.

Quoted from RonMariner

What I expect is for players who are paid tens of thousand a week to play football to at least be able to master the basics, i.e. hit a decent half volley, trap a ball, or pass to a team mate. Or not scuff shots from a few yards out. Is that really too much to ask from players that earn millions a year for plying their trade? It just basic technique. We would criticise L2 players for some of the ineptitude shown last night.

As for not lumping if forward, I saw endless hit an hope balls into the box, very few of which seemed designed to pick out a specific player. Luckily the ball twice broke kindly from a corner and fell to a guy who can take a chance when it's offered and showed great skill and composure in doing so.

I'm glad we managed to win, but I am disappointed at how poor some of our players were. I don't have an issue with Alli who I rate as a player but seemed to be carrying an injury, he certainly didn't look his usual self. But for me Sterling and Linguard in particular looked pretty dire.

I don't expect us to be world beaters. The reason is that we don't have the players good enough to be world beaters. But I do expect something rather better than we saw last night from certain players.

On that basis then Messi is sh$t because he misses 1 in 4 penalties? I really didn't think we saw endless hit an hope balls into the box - I must have been watching a different game

Quoted from Les Brechin

You're only drunk off cos that late goal cost you 2 points in the Prediction League. ;)

Errrm well there is that, I was celebrating the 1-1 :)

Quoted from MarinerMal

Can't believe all the negative comments on here. I'm really not sure what people expect from this team. As far as I am aware nobody expected England to win this but this is a young squad, the youngest there, who played with more maturity then many of their much more renowned predecessors.

First 30 minutes we played some of the best stuff I'd seen from any team so far. Yes we squandered some very good chances and that will have to improve but the fact we created so many chances is a positive.

Tunisia pressed higher when we went a goal up and caused us a few problems but apart from Tunisia's penalty, I don't remember another threat on our goal in the entire match.

The 2nd half was different and there was no way we could continue with the same pace of the 1st half but this is were the maturity came into it. Previous England sides would have resorted to longer and longer balls, hopeful hoofs into the box but this side kept to their game plan.

England kept the ball, moved the opposition around and gradually wore them down without looking particularly dangerous. But then with the introductions of Rashford and Loftus-Cheek the tempo was picked up and England got their just deserts because Tunisia tired, allowing Kane to be unmarked to score.

Yes, there is room for improvement and no we aren't going to win it but, for me, that was a good performance against a Tunisia team who had some decent results in the build up including holding out against Spain for 84 minutes before losing 1-0.

It has become so fashionable to critcise England, people don't recognise a good performance when they see it.

Good post Mal.
Let's not forget too that Tunisia came for a point and parked the bus. It's so difficult now to beat teams now playing to this tactic, look at what Man United did to Liverpool's strike force when they parked the bus. Even Spain struggled to beat Tunisia.

Quoted from Ipswin

Errrm well there is that, I was celebrating the 1-1 :)

It will be more interesting next time when you are running it Swin ;)

I thought we did well to be honest. Yes we missed chances, so does everyone. And as for people moaning about how slow and poor we were in the second half, well Tunisia changed their game plan and sat far deeper than the first half therefore not allowing us the space we had in the first half, so you can’t play with the same speed. They played for the draw second half and that’s becomes very difficult to play against. It doesn’t mean we were rubbish, we just couldn’t find a way through. I do note though that this is not the first time this has happened and it is very difficult to get through when Alli was carrying an injury and Sterling was just running into people (has he ever had a good game for England?). It is a problem for several managers, a certain Mr Hurst had issues getting his side to break through a 10 man defence.

As for changes, prefer Rose to Young, but Young did ok last night so can’t see that happening. Imo I would change McGuire for Cahill. McGuire is a massive concern for me. I don’t think his touch, footballing skills and pace are good enough for international football. I know he set up the winner, and people will point out a couple of runs that saw him running past people into the box, but those runs were because he had no other choice or outlet, he had to make a run, but he cannot then cross the ball due to lack of technical ability. So making the run if fine but knowing what to do at the end of it helps, walker would have been much more comfortable in that position but didn’t get forward much last night.

I think though that IF there is to be a change then it would be rashford for sterling. Not sure it will happen but it should. Rashford was superb in the last friendly and made a difference last night. Sterling is just shocking. I know he has had a good season for man city, but he misses as many as he scores or sets up. You don’t get that luxury at this level, he was awful.

And my final word is for Henderson. Don’t usually rate him but thought he had a really good game. I know people go on about his sideways passing, but his job is to give it to others who can be more creative and let them do their thing. He was box to box all night and constantly breaking up attacks. Dier is a lazy git and would not have been anywhere near as effective at stopping their attacks and breaking up play.

UTFM and C’mon England!!

Quoted from Civvy at last

It will be more interesting next time when you are running it Swin ;)

At least I'd be certain to win it

Quoted from RonMariner

Kane apart, we have so little quality in the final third. It was embarrassing.

We had at least four great chances in the first half hour that players simply fluffed. Linguard was awful, Sterling abysmal. Neither player had a decent first touch. Just hopeless technique. We have seen better finishing than that in the Conference. Podge would have had a hat trick tonight with those gilt edged chances.

Do we really not have better players than Linguard and Sterling?

We will make it to the knock out stages but will be out the first time we come up against a half decent side. They say you can play your way into tournament, but you cant play your way into good technique,

Our players are simply not good enough at this level.

Both Lingard and Sterling regularly play in what is arguably the best football league in the world. In fact all the England squad play in that league so how you can say we are not good enough at this level is completely wrong.

I hate Sterling being singled out. Just a bandwagon in my opinion not based on his ability. There's some players that fans love to hate no matter what. The two or three occasions he lost the ball he was surrounded by three Tunisians after receiving a poor choice of passes from other players. Kane did exactly the same but absolutely no mention of that. Sterling gets hammered for his finishing but what about Lingard missing at least two sitters? There's a reason Sterling gets picked by Southgate and Guardiola, he's quick, a real handful and commits defenders which affects their defensive shape. I don't mind who plays in the three behind Kane, Rashford, Alli, Lingard and Sterling are all effective.

If Alli is struggling I'd put Rashford in even though I see him as a direct replacement for Kane if Harry's struggling, and I'd definitely replace the ineffective Young with Rose. Other than that no changes as Cahill is hardly an upgrade on McGuire is he?

I bet Germany, Argentina, Brazil etc would have loved a win against teams with shithousing tactics yet we still want to lambast our own players..

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

On that basis then Messi is sh$t because he misses 1 in 4 penalties? I really didn't think we saw endless hit an hope balls into the box - I must have been watching a different game

It's not just about last night though is it? Did you watch the Euro's two years ago? Or several of the last few tournaments?

Anyone can have an off night, Messi included. I am still waiting for Sterling to have a good game in an England shirt

Quoted from rancido

[/b]

Both Lingard and Sterling regularly play in what is arguably the best football league in the world. In fact all the England squad play in that league so how you can say we are not good enough at this level is completely wrong.

Yes, that is arguable :) Spanish fans might beg to differ. We hardly dominate the Champions League do we? Anyway, we are talking here about international football, not club football.

The test of whether we are good enough at international level is in the performances seen in major international tournaments. It's a long time since we looked like realistic contenders to actually win anything. 1996 probably. That's a generation ago.

Quoted from RonMariner

It's just about last night though is it? Did you watch the Euro's two years ago? Or several of the last few tournaments?

Anyone can have an off night, Messi included. I am still waiting for Sterling to have a good game in an England shirt

After one game we have more points than Germany, Argentina, Brazil, Spain or Portugal ! Yes, we must be crap !

Quoted from rancido

After one game we have more points than Germany, Argentina, Brazil, Spain or Portugal ! Yes, we must be crap !

Provided the tournament ends tonight we will have done well then.

Let's see how it pans out.

Henderson did OK on the night albeit against what looked a weak team, but he wouldn't get near a starting place with the better nations.

The best midfielders move the ball on much more quickly than the English midfielders - instant control and a first time pass. With our lot, it tends to be one touch to control it, another touch to control it properly, a delay to check options, then the pass. An extra second or two which makes a massive difference in a congested midfield.

In fact, our players seem slow in thought and deed across the pitch. Not quite sure why this should be the case as they often play well alongside foreign teammates. My view is there is a lack of footballing intelligence for one reason or another which our young players just can't seem to 'get'.

First half was really good....2nd half was lack of movement off the ball not giving JH much options.  If you saw the game you would have seen this below which was when we all pushed up and Tunisia defending deep.  We meeded 1 or 2 dtopping and 1 or 2 making runs.  Its our first game...3 pts and much needed confidence.  Im sure we'll shift through the gears.  There'sno pressure from me on our lads.

                               Kane
Young   Deli   lingard     sterling  Trippier

                            Hemderson

Makes you wonder if Roy Hodgson is sitting at home wondering why Kane isn't taking the corners :)

Quoted from MarinerMal

Can't believe all the negative comments on here. I'm really not sure what people expect from this team. As far as I am aware nobody expected England to win this but this is a young squad, the youngest there, who played with more maturity then many of their much more renowned predecessors.

First 30 minutes we played some of the best stuff I'd seen from any team so far. Yes we squandered some very good chances and that will have to improve but the fact we created so many chances is a positive.

Tunisia pressed higher when we went a goal up and caused us a few problems but apart from Tunisia's penalty, I don't remember another threat on our goal in the entire match.

The 2nd half was different and there was no way we could continue with the same pace of the 1st half but this is were the maturity came into it. Previous England sides would have resorted to longer and longer balls, hopeful hoofs into the box but this side kept to their game plan.

England kept the ball, moved the opposition around and gradually wore them down without looking particularly dangerous. But then with the introductions of Rashford and Loftus-Cheek the tempo was picked up and England got their just deserts because Tunisia tired, allowing Kane to be unmarked to score.

Yes, there is room for improvement and no we aren't going to win it but, for me, that was a good performance against a Tunisia team who had some decent results in the build up including holding out against Spain for 84 minutes before losing 1-0.

It has become so fashionable to critcise England, people don't recognise a good performance when they see it.

First time I’ve been accused of being fashionable.

Quoted from rancido

[/b]

Both Lingard and Sterling regularly play in what is arguably the best football league in the world. In fact all the England squad play in that league so how you can say we are not good enough at this level is completely wrong.

How do you evaluate what is the best league in the world?

Maybe people can say certain players (or the whole squad) are not good enough because they’re not? Certainly not with the way some made repeated attempts to pass one solid object through another one.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

How do you evaluate what is the best league in the world?

Maybe people can say certain players (or the whole squad) are not good enough because they’re not? Certainly not with the way some made repeated attempts to pass one solid object through another one.

I think PL just edges it for me followed by Spain and then Germany and Italy. PL has more clubs that can compete for the title....excluding one ofs like Leciester.

PL
Arsenal
Chelsea
Man City
Man Utd
Liverpool
Tottenham

La Liga
Barcelona
Real Madrid
Athlectico Madrid
FC Porto

Bundesliga
Bayern Munich
Brussia Dortmund
Stuttgart
Shalke

I am sure I heard the commentator say that Tunisia were Africa's highest ranked team.
As for layers like Sterling and a Young, yes they are playing in supposedly the best league in the world but at their clubs they are surrounded by proper world class players, I think Debroyne and David Silva would make even me look decent, how many of the England team would get in Real Madrid or Barcelona team, Kane and that's it.

Quoted from Bigdog

I hate Sterling being singled out. Just a bandwagon in my opinion not based on his ability. There's some players that fans love to hate no matter what. The two or three occasions he lost the ball he was surrounded by three Tunisians after receiving a poor choice of passes from other players. Kane did exactly the same but absolutely no mention of that. Sterling gets hammered for his finishing but what about Lingard missing at least two sitters? There's a reason Sterling gets picked by Southgate and Guardiola, he's quick, a real handful and commits defenders which affects their defensive shape. I don't mind who plays in the three behind Kane, Rashford, Alli, Lingard and Sterling are all effective.

If Alli is struggling I'd put Rashford in even though I see him as a direct replacement for Kane if Harry's struggling, and I'd definitely replace the ineffective Young with Rose. Other than that no changes as Cahill is hardly an upgrade on McGuire is he?

I bet Germany, Argentina, Brazil etc would have loved a win against teams with shithousing tactics yet we still want to lambast our own players..

As you rightly say Bigdog, it is all about opinions, but I don’t agree that people are jumping on a bandwagon about Sterling. As I have said (and a few others have agreed) I have NEVER seen him have a good game for England. If you can quote me one then I will gladly eat humble pie, but I haven’t seen it. I watch most England games (probably 95% of them). Sterling has had 39 caps, 39. That is not bandwagon jumping, that is calling it the way it is imo. I don’t know if he can’t take the pressure, or another reason, but he’s had enough chances and it just never happens.

And imo Cahill is a better option than McGuire, quicker (even considering his age) a better passer of the ball and more experience of big games.

Although it is all about opinions. 😉

The first 30 minutes was fine, Tunisia were still on the bus so there was acres of open grass to run into. Chances handed on a plate but where were the goals? Once Tunisia equalised they dropped deep and cut it off. Instantly England had absolutely no idea what to do. The coach offered nothing different in the second half, even persisting with Ali when he couldn’t run. Nobody on the field had the brain to try and open the defence with a diagonal ball to the far post because it wasn’t on the crib sheet.

If ever there was a case for having the alternative on the bench of a Crouch or a Carroll this was it. Tunisia virtually invited England to win the game. They gave England the freedom of the touch line. Shimmying way down the sides and putting in cross after cross to nobody at the near post is not something to be praised as keeping to a game plan. If your second striker is useless then change the plan. If you don’t have a Carroll to change the angle for crosses, bring on a Vardy to go for the near post. In the end it was an appalling bit of marking that gifted England the game.

Are we supposed to ignore these shortcomings and just say “Ah! bless ‘em, they’re only young” and “We woz robbed by VAR/the ref/FIFA”?

This is the Big Boys’ League, they don’t take excuses in there. Ask Low. Ask Titi. Ask Sampaoli. Big game on Sunday. More of the same tactics from Panama. Southgate needs to find a better answer than just a back and sideways midfield.

Quoted from Meza

La Liga
Barcelona
Real Madrid
Athlectico Madrid
FC Porto

I bet you a million quid that Porto don't win La Liga next season ;)

Quoted from Abdul19

I bet you a million quid that Porto don't win La Liga next season ;)

Ah crap thats portugals league....oops. well spotted Abdul.....I'll give u that 😁

Quoted from Maringer

Henderson did OK on the night albeit against what looked a weak team, but he wouldn't get near a starting place with the better nations.

The best midfielders move the ball on much more quickly than the English midfielders - instant control and a first time pass. With our lot, it tends to be one touch to control it, another touch to control it properly, a delay to check options, then the pass. An extra second or two which makes a massive difference in a congested midfield.

In fact, our players seem slow in thought and deed across the pitch. Not quite sure why this should be the case as they often play well alongside foreign teammates. My view is there is a lack of footballing intelligence for one reason or another which our young players just can't seem to 'get'.

I think Tunisia need to be given some credit for denying us space to play the ball forward second half. If anything, we looked to keep possession too much and made it too comfortable playing in front of them. The last half an hour was crying out for us to cross the ball in from deeper, get them turned a bit and pick up the second balls in a more advanced position. It would have given them something different to think about. I think we fell into the trap of playing "too correctly", but at the death we got away with it. Up until the penalty, Mexico probably only matched us for level of performance in the first 30 minutes of a game. Another slight worry was that we seemed to run out of gas as much as we did ideas as the game went on..

A win's a win though.. I'll take that..

Didn't really listen to the commentary for any particular mention of it, but it looked pretty warm and we always seem to struggle in the heat.

Of course, could have been the fault of those pesky midges.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

The first 30 minutes was fine, Tunisia were still on the bus so there was acres of open grass to run into. Chances handed on a plate but where were the goals? Once Tunisia equalised they dropped deep and cut it off. Instantly England had absolutely no idea what to do. The coach offered nothing different in the second half, even persisting with Ali when he couldn’t run. Nobody on the field had the brain to try and open the defence with a diagonal ball to the far post because it wasn’t on the crib sheet.

If ever there was a case for having the alternative on the bench of a Crouch or a Carroll this was it. Tunisia virtually invited England to win the game. They gave England the freedom of the touch line. Shimmying way down the sides and putting in cross after cross to nobody at the near post is not something to be praised as keeping to a game plan. If your second striker is useless then change the plan. If you don’t have a Carroll to change the angle for crosses, bring on a Vardy to go for the near post. In the end it was an appalling bit of marking that gifted England the game.

Are we supposed to ignore these shortcomings and just say “Ah! bless ‘em, they’re only young” and “We woz robbed by VAR/the ref/FIFA”?

This is the Big Boys’ League, they don’t take excuses in there. Ask Low. Ask Titi. Ask Sampaoli. Big game on Sunday. More of the same tactics from Panama. Southgate needs to find a better answer than just a back and sideways midfield.

So you admit England started well but that was down to Tunisia "not getting off the bus"... is that even a valid excuse?

You accuse the England manager of offering nothing, when I think he got it pretty much spot on. This is tournament football, the heat was still 28C, there is no way you can expect a side to play at the pace England started with for the entire game. Yet, all you offer as an alternative tactic is we should have had "Peter Crouch" or "Andy Caroll". Well thank God Southgate is in charge and not you and the England team is at last looking to move on from "if we struggle just lump it to the big man".

Yes England scored because Kane was left free but IMO this was a direct result of England wearing the opposition down, making them chase England down for the second half. Mistakes happen, concentration is affected when teams get tired. Yes we were a little fortunate we got the goal so late but I felt that was just rewards for staying patient.

Your final point about not making excuses! Well that is exactly what we didn't do, we didn't need too because for once, despite these things going against us, we still won! Just like the "Big Boys" do. We need exactly the same type of approach for Panama. Start fast, be patient if we need to be, don't start panicking and aimlessly lumping it forward... just take more chances this time! :)

Quoted from MarinerMal

So you admit England started well but that was down to Tunisia "not getting off the bus"... is that even a valid excuse?

You accuse the England manager of offering nothing, when I think he got it pretty much spot on. This is tournament football, the heat was still 28C, there is no way you can expect a side to play at the pace England started with for the entire game. Yet, all you offer as an alternative tactic is we should have had "Peter Crouch" or "Andy Caroll". Well thank God Southgate is in charge and not you and the England team is at last looking to move on from "if we struggle just lump it to the big man".

Yes England scored because Kane was left free but IMO this was a direct result of England wearing the opposition down, making them chase England down for the second half. Mistakes happen, concentration is affected when teams get tired. Yes we were a little fortunate we got the goal so late but I felt that was just rewards for staying patient.

Your final point about not making excuses! Well that is exactly what we didn't do, we didn't need too because for once, despite these things going against us, we still won! Just like the "Big Boys" do. We need exactly the same type of approach for Panama. Start fast, be patient if we need to be, don't start panicking and aimlessly lumping it forward... just take more chances this time! :)

Why do you equate a big striker with a “lump it”? If you remember, Germany were not shy about using a giant up front were they? You are missing the point about that and about Southgate. No variety, no surprise for the opposition. It is tournament football as you say but in tournament football you need to be able to adapt to circumstances and alter your tactics. Read what I said and find fault with that logic. We did not use any variety. It is OK to have your basic play mapped out but if the end result keeps being zilch, you need a plan B and a plan C. Not once did we try an early diagonal cross even after Rashford came on, the players just kept tip tapping about allowing defenders to dictate where they went. Not once did Sterling go near post yet he was on the pitch over an hour and then his replacement did just the same! In the end we won because they let us.

In a way it was as well we did not bury the chances first half because we did learn something after Tunisia equalised and shut us down. Panama will do the same but I expect we will manage to survive. Belgium will be different. They will counter at pace and down the flanks against a back 3. They will push our full backs into a back 5 and then what happens? That will be interesting won’t it? We won’t be able to waste possession like we did the other night and every time we get the ball in midfield there will be a decent player waiting to tackle and dispossess. So the patient game will have to be jettisoned especially if we go behind. Vardy will be on and we will be looking for the long ball over the top!

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Why do you equate a big striker with a “lump it”? If you remember, Germany were not shy about using a giant up front were they? You are missing the point about that and about Southgate. No variety, no surprise for the opposition. It is tournament football as you say but in tournament football you need to be able to adapt to circumstances and alter your tactics. Read what I said and find fault with that logic. We did not use any variety. It is OK to have your basic play mapped out but if the end result keeps being zilch, you need a plan B and a plan C. Not once did we try an early diagonal cross even after Rashford came on, the players just kept tip tapping about allowing defenders to dictate where they went. Not once did Sterling go near post yet he was on the pitch over an hour and then his replacement did just the same! In the end we won because they let us.

In a way it was as well we did not bury the chances first half because we did learn something after Tunisia equalised and shut us down. Panama will do the same but I expect we will manage to survive. Belgium will be different. They will counter at pace and down the flanks against a back 3. They will push our full backs into a back 5 and then what happens? That will be interesting won’t it? We won’t be able to waste possession like we did the other night and every time we get the ball in midfield there will be a decent player waiting to tackle and dispossess. So the patient game will have to be jettisoned especially if we go behind. Vardy will be on and we will be looking for the long ball over the top!

Because that is what England do every time they have a "big man" up front. They "lump it" up to him. So would you utilise Andy Carroll or Peter Crouch if you are not using them as a target man? The way we played the other night was far more intelligent and worked. No other plan was needed.You also need to view the game again if you think no diagonal passes were made, Henderson at least made a couple.

Yes, ofc Begium will be different and we will play a game with less possession and played more on the counter. I think it may suit us better.

Quoted from MarinerMal

Because that is what England do every time they have a "big man" up front. They "lump it" up to him. So would you utilise Andy Carroll or Peter Crouch if you are not using them as a target man? The way we played the other night was far more intelligent and worked. No other plan was needed.You also need to view the game again if you think no diagonal passes were made, Henderson at least made a couple.

Yes, ofc Begium will be different and we will play a game with less possession and played more on the counter. I think it may suit us better.

Your last sentence is very true. It will suit us better if we dare to play it properly and don’t spend half an hour fannying the ball around across the back while everyone gets marked and there’s no movement.

Whoopee Henderson made at least 2 diagonal passes. ;D. I bet he got his bum smacked for doing it too! Of course a target man generally means a long ball up there or a longer cross, that is the point, set a new problem for the opposition. I’ll even give you an example - Brazil v England in 1970, Astle was brought on after an hour and the Brazilian defence that had looked so comfortable in the heat with us passing the ball in front of them suddenly did not know whether to sh!!t, shave or shower as we turned them around and we should have comfortably won the game. Even Pele said that.

There is something of a love-in with Southgate at the moment because he is new, he is the same generation as most of the pundits, he isn’t Allardyce or Hodgson, he’s trying to make us more like Spain. Fair enough if it works, but being a manager is not about seeing the positives in your side, it’s about picking fault and changing things on the hoof, seeking that impossible perfection in a game. That we have yet to see, I think you must agree.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Why do you equate a big striker with a “lump it”? If you remember, Germany were not shy about using a giant up front were they? You are missing the point about that and about Southgate. No variety, no surprise for the opposition. It is tournament football as you say but in tournament football you need to be able to adapt to circumstances and alter your tactics. Read what I said and find fault with that logic. We did not use any variety. It is OK to have your basic play mapped out but if the end result keeps being zilch, you need a plan B and a plan C. Not once did we try an early diagonal cross even after Rashford came on, the players just kept tip tapping about allowing defenders to dictate where they went. Not once did Sterling go near post yet he was on the pitch over an hour and then his replacement did just the same! In the end we won because they let us.

In a way it was as well we did not bury the chances first half because we did learn something after Tunisia equalised and shut us down. Panama will do the same but I expect we will manage to survive. Belgium will be different. They will counter at pace and down the flanks against a back 3. They will push our full backs into a back 5 and then what happens? That will be interesting won’t it? We won’t be able to waste possession like we did the other night and every time we get the ball in midfield there will be a decent player waiting to tackle and dispossess. So the patient game will have to be jettisoned especially if we go behind. Vardy will be on and we will be looking for the long ball over the top!

Did you stop watching the game with 5 minutes to go ? Plan A worked - has nobody told you we won !!!!!!!!!!

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Your last sentence is very true. It will suit us better if we dare to play it properly and don’t spend half an hour fannying the ball around across the back while everyone gets marked and there’s no movement.

Whoopee Henderson made at least 2 diagonal passes. ;D. I bet he got his bum smacked for doing it too! Of course a target man generally means a long ball up there or a longer cross, that is the point, set a new problem for the opposition. I’ll even give you an example - Brazil v England in 1970, Astle was brought on after an hour and the Brazilian defence that had looked so comfortable in the heat with us passing the ball in front of them suddenly did not know whether to sh!!t, shave or shower as we turned them around and we should have comfortably won the game. Even Pele said that.

There is something of a love-in with Southgate at the moment because he is new, he is the same generation as most of the pundits, he isn’t Allardyce or Hodgson, he’s trying to make us more like Spain. Fair enough if it works, but being a manager is not about seeing the positives in your side, it’s about picking fault and changing things on the hoof, seeking that impossible perfection in a game. That we have yet to see, I think you must agree.

It's an interesting debate TRRFC. There's an element of needing to change things if it's not working or to combat the opposition. But in terms of the style of play and the England DNA, Southgate believes in it and clearly has enough belief and faith in it to not abandon it at the first sign of it possibly not working.

I get what you're saying completely, but I can also see it, and admire, Southgate's belief (similar to Guardiola's faith in his footballing beliefs) in his way of playing. His faith in it will transmit to the players, who otherwise might have been left thinking "we've worked on this system for months, it stopped working for 25 minutes and all of a sudden we've abandoned it to go a different way to our philosophy."

Ultimately, we won the game. So it worked. I don't get the "it was only a last minute goal that won it" arguments either - do goals in the last minutes not count? We know how long a football match is before it starts so it doesn't matter whether goals are scored in the 1st minute or in the 90th/injury time.

Yes there'll be tougher tests to come and better teams to play - they will pose us different problems but they'll also play into our hands a little more and give us more opportunities/space to exploit.

Far more positives than negatives for me from Monday night. We controlled the game, only allowed Tunisia one shot (their pen), had chances to have scored 4/5 and obviously won. Teams that do well in tournaments rarely start like a house on fire anyway (think past German teams grinding out the groups and coming strong in KO rounds) so performance was secondary to result for me.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Your last sentence is very true. It will suit us better if we dare to play it properly and don’t spend half an hour fannying the ball around across the back while everyone gets marked and there’s no movement.

Whoopee Henderson made at least 2 diagonal passes. ;D. I bet he got his bum smacked for doing it too! Of course a target man generally means a long ball up there or a longer cross, that is the point, set a new problem for the opposition. I’ll even give you an example - Brazil v England in 1970, Astle was brought on after an hour and the Brazilian defence that had looked so comfortable in the heat with us passing the ball in front of them suddenly did not know whether to sh!!t, shave or shower as we turned them around and we should have comfortably won the game. Even Pele said that.

There is something of a love-in with Southgate at the moment because he is new, he is the same generation as most of the pundits, he isn’t Allardyce or Hodgson, he’s trying to make us more like Spain. Fair enough if it works, but being a manager is not about seeing the positives in your side, it’s about picking fault and changing things on the hoof, seeking that impossible perfection in a game. That we have yet to see, I think you must agree.

Football has moved on since 1970's! Just about every team at this world cup would be able to easily negate a Target man. Long Ball + Long Cross = "lumping it" to me.
So we lump it, sometimes win the subsuequent header sometimes not, we are still gifting the ball back to the opposition more. Meaning as they keep the ball more we have to work harder to get it back. We get more tired and therefore less likely to steal the winner late on. Your target man tactic might work to some degree in the winter months in England. It would be difficult to maintain in a summer tournament where you are expected to play so many games in such a short period of time.

I wasn't sure about Southgate when he was appointed but I don't just love how he is trying to get England to play. I like the way comes across. He doesn't get to excited after a victory and doesn't get too down after a defeat. Tries to take the pressure of his players so they are free to play without the fear we have seen from so many past England sides.

Yes, I agree we have yet to see that perfection in a game... from anyone!

Southgate isn’t a brilliant manager but he doesn’t have to be. He’s at the top of the coaching set up in the English FA, which have spent the last few years setting up a system and actually trying to develop the younger players. Hence why our younger players did so well last summer. It’s what the Germans started doing after their bad period (losing 5-1 to us) and what Spain have been doing for years.

It’s trying to establish something that isn’t just 4-4-2, punt it long to the big men and steamroll the opposition. That doesn’t work anymore.

Quoted from Squinter

Did you stop watching the game with 5 minutes to go ? Plan A worked - has nobody told you we won !!!!!!!!!!

With respect Squinter it must have been you that switched off. The goal cam from another dead ball situation and no marking. Plan A had nothing to do with either goal. We did not score from open play.

I have no problem with Southgate trying to play football in the Man City/Spanish style but at the end of the day we are in Russia to win.He has stated he will persist in this style come one may. He has no plan B!

When we got the winner on Monday it was from a CORNER ie a cross which out did them - not some clever passing. We were out of ideas and passing the ball around aimlessly and getting no where until then.

We will never win the European cup or the World Cup if Southgate persists with this one dimentional phylosify. The Media will crucify him when our limitations are exposed and we lose as all the top teams can play this way and have no problem putting crosses in when you cant pass your way through. Look at the way Germany put crosses in when it suits. Not being flexible when you are losing and refuse to change your tactics is madness.

We havn't got the players Man City has who can play this way at a high level.

The FA have said the wont sack him after this World Cup whatever happens. They have set themselves up to be pilloried as he doggedly demands they play this way and no other.

I hated what Slade did to us last season and like most people enjoyed watching Man City and Liverpool. But i recognise that there is not one style that always works. If the style is not working because your players aren't better at it on the day because their defense is too strong you cant shrug your shoulders and say we cant play another way as an excuse. In club football you'd be sacked. Southgate will be pushed out after many years of frustration by us fans because of their support of his dogma.

The rest of this world cup will test a lot of fane patience IMO.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

With respect Squinter it must have been you that switched off. The goal cam from another dead ball situation and no marking. Plan A had nothing to do with either goal. We did not score from open play.

Not through not creating chances in open play though. We created more than enough, just didn't take them. That's a problem with the players not the system.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

We did not score from open play.

Not many teams have from what I have seen, it's turning into a penalty taking competition

VAR is allowing the referees to avoid having to make other than 100% nailed on decisions. I am waiting for a referee to actually award a penalty himself and for VAR to say it's not - bet that won't happen just like if VAR says penalty I can't see any referee disagreeing - shame

Quoted from TheGoalKipper

I have no problem with Southgate trying to play football in the Man City/Spanish style but at the end of the day we are in Russia to win.He has stated he will persist in this style come one may. He has no plan B!

When we got the winner on Monday it was from a CORNER ie a cross which out did them - not some clever passing. We were out of ideas and passing the ball around aimlessly and getting no where until then.

We will never win the European cup or the World Cup if Southgate persists with this one dimentional phylosify. The Media will crucify him when our limitations are exposed and we lose as all the top teams can play this way and have no problem putting crosses in when you cant pass your way through. Look at the way Germany put crosses in when it suits. Not being flexible when you are losing and refuse to change your tactics is madness.

We havn't got the players Man City has who can play this way at a high level.

The FA have said the wont sack him after this World Cup whatever happens. They have set themselves up to be pilloried as he doggedly demands they play this way and no other.

I hated what Slade did to us last season and like most people enjoyed watching Man City and Liverpool. But i recognise that there is not one style that always works. If the style is not working because your players aren't better at it on the day because their defense is too strong you cant shrug your shoulders and say we cant play another way as an excuse. In club football you'd be sacked. Southgate will be pushed out after many years of frustration by us fans because of their support of his dogma.

The rest of this world cup will test a lot of fane patience IMO.

Sorry, you cannot say that. No-one on the Fishy is allowed to have an opinion that implies less than 100% support for the Southgate Super System, regardless of outcome. ;D

Quoted from TheGoalKipper

I have no problem with Southgate trying to play football in the Man City/Spanish style but at the end of the day we are in Russia to win.He has stated he will persist in this style come one may. He has no plan B!

When we got the winner on Monday it was from a CORNER ie a cross which out did them - not some clever passing. We were out of ideas and passing the ball around aimlessly and getting no where until then.

We will never win the European cup or the World Cup if Southgate persists with this one dimentional phylosify. The Media will crucify him when our limitations are exposed and we lose as all the top teams can play this way and have no problem putting crosses in when you cant pass your way through. Look at the way Germany put crosses in when it suits. Not being flexible when you are losing and refuse to change your tactics is madness.

We havn't got the players Man City has who can play this way at a high level.

The FA have said the wont sack him after this World Cup whatever happens. They have set themselves up to be pilloried as he doggedly demands they play this way and no other.

I hated what Slade did to us last season and like most people enjoyed watching Man City and Liverpool. But i recognise that there is not one style that always works. If the style is not working because your players aren't better at it on the day because their defense is too strong you cant shrug your shoulders and say we cant play another way as an excuse. In club football you'd be sacked. Southgate will be pushed out after many years of frustration by us fans because of their support of his dogma.

The rest of this world cup will test a lot of fane patience IMO.

Couldn't disagree more with this post and IMHO this is a sad indictment of the typical English fan mentality. If the pretty passing isn't working "get in the box".

We have tried since 1966 with direct football, hitting the channels, hitting the big man. throwing balls in the box and have mostly failed miserably. In fact, the best world cup since then was 1990 when England change to 3 at the back with two wing backs and the genius of Paul Gascoigne in the middle and two small attackers in Lineker and Beardsley.

I believe the way England played the other night is the only way we will win a tournament and I have to admire Southgate for sticking to his beliefs.

He knows the next generation of English players coming through will be the most technical batch of youngsters England have ever produced and will be very comfortable with the way England are playing. They have already tasted some success. I know the valid question is "but how many will get to play for their Premier League clubs" and the answer is obviously most of them won't. However by developing their technical skills they stand a better chance.

England where not perfect he other night, there is still plenty of room for improvement, without doubt. But I was encouraged by the way we kept the ball, kept moving Tunisia about and eventually wore them down. Yes the goals came from corners but being able to keep the ball winning free kicks and corners when we are good at set pieces is not a negative.

I'm excited by the future of English football for the first time in a long while but we can't just abandon the new style of play as soon as someone goes defensive and makes it difficult for us.

Quoted from MarinerMal

Couldn't disagree more with this post and IMHO this is a sad indictment of the typical English fan mentality. If the pretty passing isn't working "get in the box".

We have tried since 1966 with direct football, hitting the channels, hitting the big man. throwing balls in the box and have mostly failed miserably. In fact, the best world cup since then was 1990 when England change to 3 at the back with two wing backs and the genius of Paul Gascoigne in the middle and two small attackers in Lineker and Beardsley.

I believe the way England played the other night is the only way we will win a tournament and I have to admire Southgate for sticking to his beliefs.

He knows the next generation of English players coming through will be the most technical batch of youngsters England have ever produced and will be very comfortable with the way England are playing. They have already tasted some success. I know the valid question is "but how many will get to play for their Premier League clubs" and the answer is obviously most of them won't. However by developing their technical skills they stand a better chance.

England where not perfect he other night, there is still plenty of room for improvement, without doubt. But I was encouraged by the way we kept the ball, kept moving Tunisia about and eventually wore them down. Yes the goals came from corners but being able to keep the ball winning free kicks and corners when we are good at set pieces is not a negative.

I'm excited by the future of English football for the first time in a long while but we can't just abandon the new style of play as soon as someone goes defensive and makes it difficult for us.

Why not? If they're good enough they'll play surely?

Quoted from TheGoalKipper

I have no problem with Southgate trying to play football in the Man City/Spanish style but at the end of the day we are in Russia to win.He has stated he will persist in this style come one may. He has no plan B!

When we got the winner on Monday it was from a CORNER ie a cross which out did them - not some clever passing. We were out of ideas and passing the ball around aimlessly and getting no where until then.

We will never win the European cup or the World Cup if Southgate persists with this one dimentional phylosify. The Media will crucify him when our limitations are exposed and we lose as all the top teams can play this way and have no problem putting crosses in when you cant pass your way through. Look at the way Germany put crosses in when it suits. Not being flexible when you are losing and refuse to change your tactics is madness.

We havn't got the players Man City has who can play this way at a high level.

The FA have said the wont sack him after this World Cup whatever happens. They have set themselves up to be pilloried as he doggedly demands they play this way and no other.

I hated what Slade did to us last season and like most people enjoyed watching Man City and Liverpool. But i recognise that there is not one style that always works. If the style is not working because your players aren't better at it on the day because their defense is too strong you cant shrug your shoulders and say we cant play another way as an excuse. In club football you'd be sacked. Southgate will be pushed out after many years of frustration by us fans because of their support of his dogma.

The rest of this world cup will test a lot of fane patience IMO.

We did win though.

No, a corner crossed into the box isn't pretty passing. But how do you earn a corner in the first place? Probably by progressing possession up the pitch to get into the final third (using the passing game we're talking about) and either forcing a save from the GK or forcing the defending team with no option other than to knock it out for a corner.

Lot of people seem to act like late goals or goals from set plays don't count. They do and we won the game. I don't think France were too bothered in '98 when they practically won the World Cup due to two Zidane headers from corners.