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Not sure if this has been mentioned but the Tories have rejected West Brom's proposal for a safe standing area. The proposal was made to try and improve safety in the ground after the usual concerns about supporters standing in seats. The charade of supporters standing in seating areas has gone on long enough IMO. It's time we were able to choose whether to stand or not. Can't help thinking there is a political motive behind it to continue the gentrification of football. There's more information in the link and a petition below

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43704338

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/207040

Why can't football clubs decide on issues such as this themselves? It is THEIR ground. The government gets itself involved in everything and it is sickening.

Works abroad and works in Scotland, but obviously too risky for the English. Stupid decision by people who know naff all about football.

Safe standing is not for me at my age but if there's an area dedicated to it.......I can't see an argument against it if it's safe ?

Standing was axed after the Taylor report as an understandable fix to a problem - the risk of crushing at a old depalidated grounds. The reality is in the nearly 30 years since Hillsborough the understanding of the science behind crowd behavior has been radically transformed and we now know how to operate a safe system of standing.

The tory response makes no sense (and runs counter to them cutting red tape which they bang on ad nauseum about ). I've been in safe standing areas and frankly its much safer than pretty much every music gig ive ever been too.

The decision by Tracey Crouch beggars belief considering she refused a safe standing application in a football ground and just hours later went and opened a standing area in a rugby ground!

The evidence is incontrovertible - rail seating is safe, and a much safer option than what we currently have. I’ve lost count of the times I’ve gone over seats in goal celebrations. I missed Bogle’s second at Wembley as I was helping some poor kid, no older than 7, who’d been flattened and knocked over the row in front celebrating the first goal.

Crouch claims that the way to manage persistent standing is through crowd management. She’s clearly never watched either a handful of stewards waving their arms to get thousands of paying customers to sit down, or a group of overzealous bully-boy stewards drag customers out of the ground for having the temerity to stand up.

The Tories are playing politics with the safety of football fans, again, and we deserve better. Will it take a death before she takes her head out of the sand? She’s ignored the government’s own safety experts in SGSA and even the Football Safety Officers Association has this evening condemned her actions.

It’s not about forcing people to stand if they don’t want to - it’s about offering the choice for people who do.

I’d urge everyone to sign the petition - over 30k people have signed it today alone, but there have been only 37 signatures from Grimsby and 38 from Cleethorpes.

https://t.co/EhLb9cS8Os

Just watched the video on the BBC page Vance Warner posted

Who's going to go round locking and unlocking every single seat? It's going to be a very time consuming job, unless you can do it row by row, but even then it would be time consuming, I have a feeling that clubs will tend to leave the seats locked in the "sitting" position all the time rather than changing it depending on the game in question as lifting the seats to the "standing" position will take a lot of time.

I do support the idea, but the thought of somebody going round with a key locking and unlocking every seat does make me unsure and I think clubs will find that very time consuming and it would be far easier to leave the seats in the "sitting" positions all the time.

Quoted from Davec

I do support the idea, but the thought of somebody going round with a key locking and unlocking every seat does make me unsure and I think clubs will find that very time consuming and it would be far easier to leave the seats in the "sitting" positions all the time.

I don't see why that would be necessary unless a club is playing in Europe (unless I'm missing something...). The top German teams have the standing position in domestic games and then change to sitting for European games because rules dictate that. Surely an English team who is not in Europe take a decision to have rail seating in an area for a season, set in the standing position and not need to change it all season?

Quoted from pizzzza

I don't see why that would be necessary unless a club is playing in Europe (unless I'm missing something...). The top German teams have the standing position in domestic games and then change to sitting for European games because rules dictate that. Surely an English team who is not in Europe take a decision to have rail seating in an area for a season, set in the standing position and not need to change it all season?

You never know what the police and other authorities are like, the FA could make up some ridiculous rule.

Quoted from Davec

Just watched the video on the BBC page Vance Warner posted

Who's going to go round locking and unlocking every single seat? It's going to be a very time consuming job, unless you can do it row by row, but even then it would be time consuming, I have a feeling that clubs will tend to leave the seats locked in the "sitting" position all the time rather than changing it depending on the game in question as lifting the seats to the "standing" position will take a lot of time.

I do support the idea, but the thought of somebody going round with a key locking and unlocking every seat does make me unsure and I think clubs will find that very time consuming and it would be far easier to leave the seats in the "sitting" positions all the time.

What an absolute throbber you are.

Quoted from ska face

What an absolute throbber you are.

What makes you think it isn't a fair point? I know they would more often than not be locked in the "standing" position but if they need to be put in the sitting position somebody has to go round unlocking all of them to put them in that position and then afterwards put them all back in the standing position, that seems quite Labour intensive, or do you think it'll only take 5 minutes to do the entire stadium?

It’d only need to be used for seats for European competitions so would only affect 8 clubs in England a season for possibly 10 games.

I favour a (safe) standing area for those who wish to stand just as long as those in the seating areas stay seated!

I am sick and tired of those in front of me standing every time Town advance on the opponents goal. I have lost count of how many (of the few) games I get to being ruined in this way.

The final at Wembley v Wrexham where we were near the back was totally spoiled by those in front constantly standing.

Thank goodness I manage to get a seat right at the front at Cambridge for example.

I know we have been pretty crap in recent years but do people have to jump up every time we get the flipping ball?

Quoted from Davec

What makes you think it isn't a fair point? I know they would more often than not be locked in the "standing" position but if they need to be put in the sitting position somebody has to go round unlocking all of them to put them in that position and then afterwards put them all back in the standing position, that seems quite Labour intensive, or do you think it'll only take 5 minutes to do the entire stadium?

Because we’re arguing about the ridiculous decision to reject safe standing when it has been shown on many occasions how safe it is and you’re arguing about the awful thought of hiring a few people to go around unlocking them. Talk about missing the point ffs.

Quoted from Ipswin

I favour a (safe) standing area for those who wish to stand just as long as those in the seating areas stay seated!

I am sick and tired of those in front of me standing every time Town advance on the opponents goal. I have lost count of how many (of the few) games I get to being ruined in this way.

The final at Wembley v Wrexham where we were near the back was totally spoiled by those in front constantly standing.

Thank goodness I manage to get a seat right at the front at Cambridge for example.

I know we have been pretty crap in recent years but do people have to jump up every time we get the flipping ball?

I one hundred percent agree with you mate, I have had some notorious standers in front of me over the years. Upper Whatsit stand, clear views of the goalmouth and yet for every bit of excitement, the ham shankers stand and block my view.

Be a very brave person in Britain who says ok to standing coming back at football and as we all know politicians are a spineless bunch at the best of times. In my opinion the Taylor report had a lot of flaws in regards to standing issues.I believe every Club gets issued a safety licence which covers the upcoming Season surely that person is best placed to say what`s safe and what isn`t for that individual ground.Taylor had to compare the Holte End and Anfield Kop with capacities of over 15000 with stands like the Pontoon or Rod Mill at Scunny that held a couple of thousand and deemed they should be all seated if Championship level or above.Not quite sure how Scunny have managed to avoid the red tape but they have a perfectly safe standing terrace.

I'm hate standing areas for the pure reason that I am not very tall! All-seater was the best thing that ever happened for me, guaranteed to see all four corner flags and the two goals, a rare luxury. It's annoying when people stand in all-seater areas, I am not sure whether this would help or make it worse.

Quoted from Ipswin

I favour a (safe) standing area for those who wish to stand just as long as those in the seating areas stay seated!

I am sick and tired of those in front of me standing every time Town advance on the opponents goal. I have lost count of how many (of the few) games I get to being ruined in this way.

The final at Wembley v Wrexham where we were near the back was totally spoiled by those in front constantly standing.

Thank goodness I manage to get a seat right at the front at Cambridge for example.

I know we have been pretty crap in recent years but do people have to jump up every time we get the flipping ball?

Loosely speaking wasn`t it a case of usually standing behind both goals and seating in some or all side stands Swin?

Quoted from Ipswin

I favour a (safe) standing area for those who wish to stand just as long as those in the seating areas stay seated!

I am sick and tired of those in front of me standing every time Town advance on the opponents goal. I have lost count of how many (of the few) games I get to being ruined in this way.

The final at Wembley v Wrexham where we were near the back was totally spoiled by those in front constantly standing.

Thank goodness I manage to get a seat right at the front at Cambridge for example. 8) 8) 8) 8)

I know we have been pretty crap in recent years but do people have to jump up every time we get the flipping ball?

That was because Luna and I saved a seat for you and your lad Swin 8)

I have to seat down I do not have a choice but are happy for other people to stand if they wish as long as its not in front of me,

I see no reason the government does not allow safe seating in grounds now it has proved it is safe,

Most games that have a near full attendance are all ticket so as long as the crowd are allowed into the stadium in a orderly safe manner there should be no problem, Sadly this was not the case for the 96.

Lessons have been learnt and technology has moved on so yes I have signed the patition for safe standing.

PS I have also signed the petition ;)

Quoted from ska face

The decision by Tracey Crouch beggars belief considering she refused a safe standing application in a football ground and just hours later went and opened a standing area in a rugby ground!

The evidence is incontrovertible - rail seating is safe, and a much safer option than what we currently have. I’ve lost count of the times I’ve gone over seats in goal celebrations. I missed Bogle’s second at Wembley as I was helping some poor kid, no older than 7, who’d been flattened and knocked over the row in front celebrating the first goal.

Crouch claims that the way to manage persistent standing is through crowd management. She’s clearly never watched either a handful of stewards waving their arms to get thousands of paying customers to sit down, or a group of overzealous bully-boy stewards drag customers out of the ground for having the temerity to stand up.

The Tories are playing politics with the safety of football fans, again, and we deserve better. Will it take a death before she takes her head out of the sand? She’s ignored the government’s own safety experts in SGSA and even the Football Safety Officers Association has this evening condemned her actions.

It’s not about forcing people to stand if they don’t want to - it’s about offering the choice for people who do.

I’d urge everyone to sign the petition - over 30k people have signed it today alone, but there have been only 37 signatures from Grimsby and 38 from Cleethorpes.

https://t.co/EhLb9cS8Os

Why dont they set up an online petition to the House of Commons as has been done for other campaigns which trigger off a discussion on the matter when it exceeds a specific Gov. Target - i can't remember what it is. Theres enough football fans who would sign it if they were shown the facts as they can relate to their own experience

Quoted from TheGoalKipper

Why dont they set up an online petition to the House of Commons as has been done for other campaigns which trigger off a discussion on the matter when it exceeds a specific Gov. Target - i can't remember what it is. Theres enough football fans who would sign it if they were shown the facts as they can relate to their own experience

Like the link on SkaFace's post to a petition?

Quoted from GrimRob

I'm hate standing areas for the pure reason that I am not very tall! All-seater was the best thing that ever happened for me, guaranteed to see all four corner flags and the two goals, a rare luxury. It's annoying when people stand in all-seater areas, I am not sure whether this would help or make it worse.

How would having designated areas for people who want to persistently stand, and people who choose exclusively to sit, make the current situation worse? (confused1)

It would make crowd management easier for a start.

Quoted from ska face

How would having designated areas for people who want to persistently stand, and people who choose exclusively to sit, make the current situation worse? (confused1)

It would make crowd management easier for a start.

I don't think it would make it any easier. Stewards would turn a blind eye to people standing, it's simply not worth their while to do anything about it. At the moment there is a grudging acceptance of those who stand because there are no standing areas. I think the proposed change would increase the anger of those who legitimately feel they shouldn't have to stand if they have a seat and might lead to more arguments and unrest amongst groups of supporters. Of course, if the stewards rigorously enforced sitting and nobody argued with them it would work, but that's never going to happen.

Quoted from Ipswin

I favour a (safe) standing area for those who wish to stand just as long as those in the seating areas stay seated!

I am sick and tired of those in front of me standing every time Town advance on the opponents goal. I have lost count of how many (of the few) games I get to being ruined in this way.

The final at Wembley v Wrexham where we were near the back was totally spoiled by those in front constantly standing.

Thank goodness I manage to get a seat right at the front at Cambridge for example.

I know we have been pretty crap in recent years but do people have to jump up every time we get the flipping ball?

Similarly, there’s nothing worse than people who want to sit going into an area where people want to stand and complaining. There’s always some sharp object in the parts of the pontoon that try to stand and create an atmosphere moaning that he wants to sit. That’s completely understandable, there’s two other stands (and the other side of the pontoon) filled with like minded inviduals. I don’t go into the main stand and complain people want to sit and eat werthers originals. There’s room for both.

That example they put in Blundell a few while ago I tried it seemed robust and the seat was locked in the closed position enabling you to stand in front of it.The only problem I could see was the horrendous cost the guy told me it does not come cheep. No way will the board sanction this for an aged Blundell Park and, to be honest I wouldn't either.

Quoted from Mrs Doyle

That example they put in Blundell a few while ago I tried it seemed robust and the seat was locked in the closed position enabling you to stand in front of it.The only problem I could see was the horrendous cost the guy told me it does not come cheep. No way will the board sanction this for an aged Blundell Park and, to be honest I wouldn't either.

The current law prevents the club from introducing safe standing, even in a brand new purpose built stadium. So we could be in a position where a safe-standing area could be installed and the cost factored in as part of a new development, but we’d be prevented because we happened to be in the Championship when the decision was made, nearly 30 years ago.

The law is unfit, out of date, not based on evidence and has demonstrably been used as a form of social cleansing, removing certain sections of society (i.e. the young, those on low wages) from football grounds.

All we are asking for is a decision based on evidence, allowing CHOICE for customers.

I know it's football so usually there's not a lot of brain power used, by both the authorities and fans but, how many people when there at the cinema and have paid for a seat stand, nobody as it's just not done.

Point taken Ska it has my backing.

Quoted from WetFlannel

Similarly, there’s nothing worse than people who want to sit going into an area where people want to stand and complaining. There’s always some sharp object in the parts of the pontoon that try to stand and create an atmosphere moaning that he wants to sit. That’s completely understandable, there’s two other stands (and the other side of the pontoon) filled with like minded inviduals. I don’t go into the main stand and complain people want to sit and eat werthers originals. There’s room for both.

I don't have a problem with this at all but when the 'standers' decide to become 'sitters' and then, when we get the ball, want to become' standers' again it felicitations up the genuine 'sitters'. One or the other, stand all match or sit and everyone's happy in reality tho' even if there are standing areas (with seats locked in the up position) there will still be too many who start off sitting but keep leaping up every couple of minutes

In a safe standing area the seats will be locked so people like Rob and me will not be able to sit,

So we will go in another stand that is all seating wont we Rob ? ;)

Quoted from grimsby pete

In a safe standing area the seats will be locked so people like Rob and me will not be able to sit,

So we will go in another stand that is all seating wont we Rob ? ;)

Its the 'standers' who start off in the seats, rather than the standing (only) area, and who won't be able to keep their arses on the seats and resist standing when Town attack.

Be great if the standing only area, if it existed,represented 50/75% of the ground's capacity but it wouldn't sadly.Twenty rows, hopefully at the back of the Pontoon, would be it I reckon

Quoted from Ipswin

I don't have a problem with this at all but when the 'standers' decide to become 'sitters' and then, when we get the ball, want to become' standers' again it felicitations up the genuine 'sitters'. One or the other, stand all match or sit and everyone's happy in reality tho' even if there are standing areas (with seats locked in the up position) there will still be too many who start off sitting but keep leaping up every couple of minutes

Oh FFS. You haven't got enough to moan about so now you're making up your own scenarios to complain about. How do you think people got on before it became all seater?

Quoted from Gaffer58

I know it's football so usually there's not a lot of brain power used, by both the authorities and fans but, how many people when there at the cinema and have paid for a seat stand, nobody as it's just not done.

Don't know about you but I've never felt the urge to stand up during a film. nothing to do with social convention.

Apart from the time I went to see Chicago and that was only to get up to walk out it was that bad. Not even the perving potential would entice me to stay.

or we could all just follow the rules and sit on the seats provided for 2 x 45 mins once a week. ...not a massive hardship.

Quoted from moosey_club

or we could all just follow the rules and sit on the seats provided for 2 x 45 mins once a week. ...not a massive hardship.

Yeah, that’s working at the minute isn’t it?

And what about when people celebrate - is it safe to have them jump around with a barrier at shin height in front of them?

Quoted from moosey_club

or we could all just follow the rules and sit on the seats provided for 2 x 45 mins once a week. ...not a massive hardship.

When it's cold I'd rather be standing. Which is 90% of the season.

If BP had safe-standing, Grimsby Town would have at least a few hundred extra supporters and a better atmosphere. Due to government regulation, nope can't do that!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43704338

I’d love to see the new ground with the equivalent of the Ponny end with full safe standing, hopefully by then it’ll all be agreed. Would mean the ones who want to sing and shout and create the atmosphere will all be in one end and give a good atmosphere at one point rather than smatterings around the ground. If/when we get the new stadium I want to see a real push to get 2/3 times as many ST sold as usual and then, if he’s still here, give Jolley a really big budget to provide exciting and effective football to entice people back and get them into the habit of going every week, hopefully meaning our lowest gate would be around 5.5k to 6, if done properly.

Quoted from Mariner_09

I’d love to see the new ground with the equivalent of the Ponny end with full safe standing, hopefully by then it’ll all be agreed. Would mean the ones who want to sing and shout and create the atmosphere will all be in one end and give a good atmosphere at one point rather than smatterings around the ground. If/when we get the new stadium I want to see a real push to get 2/3 times as many ST sold as usual and then, if he’s still here, give Jolley a really big budget to provide exciting and effective football to entice people back and get them into the habit of going every week, hopefully meaning our lowest gate would be around 5.5k to 6, if done properly full stop ;).

Quoted from Mariner_09

I’d love to see the new ground with the equivalent of the Ponny end with full safe standing, hopefully by then it’ll all be agreed. Would mean the ones who want to sing and shout and create the atmosphere will all be in one end and give a good atmosphere at one point rather than smatterings around the ground. If/when we get the new stadium I want to see a real push to get 2/3 times as many ST sold as usual and then, if he’s still here, give Jolley a really big budget to provide exciting and effective football to entice people back and get them into the habit of going every week, hopefully meaning our lowest gate would be around 5.5k to 6, if done properly.

That's wishful thinking ! In the 1999/00 season we had 10 home games where the gate was below 6,000 and 6 of those were below 5,500. Even our opening home game of the season to Stockport only attracted 5,528 and this was at Championship level. At the time the capacity of BP was 10,033. I think a lot of fans look at our past gates with rose-tinted glasses and don't realise how mediocre the gates were for that level of football. Yes, we often recall a game against the likes of Barnsley ( 8742 ) but forget games like W.B.A ( 4036 ). I know the away support can have a big impact on the gate but the reality is different to the recollection as regards home support.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Oh FFS. You haven't got enough to moan about so now you're making up your own scenarios to complain about. How do you think people got on before it became all seater?

Before it became all seater I stood with everyone else so no problem, it was sinply necessary to make sure you weren't behind the 6 foot six twit.. When I found myself sitting (like everyone else) I didn't want girl privates jumping up and obscuring my view every two minutes

Quoted from Mariner_09

I’d love to see the new ground with the equivalent of the Ponny end with full safe standing, hopefully by then it’ll all be agreed. Would mean the ones who want to sing and shout and create the atmosphere will all be in one end and give a good atmosphere at one point rather than smatterings around the ground. If/when we get the new stadium I want to see a real push to get 2/3 times as many ST sold as usual and then, if he’s still here, give Jolley a really big budget to provide exciting and effective football to entice people back and get them into the habit of going every week, hopefully meaning our lowest gate would be around 5.5k to 6, if done properly.

Don't worry about it, there won't be a new ground in my lifetime, yours or Jolley's

Fewer than 500 signatures required to hit 100,000 now. Would be great to see a GTFC push get it over the line.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/207040

Remember -

The club already back it, but are prevented from introducing it, even if we built a new ground in the North East Midlands Counties Div 3
The evidence proves it’s safe, certainly safer than what we have now. Whatever your political leanings, the govt department responsible for your safety at the match is ignoring the advice of their own experts.
Fans deserve to have an informed debate, at the very least, on updating regulations 30 years out of date

BBC just announced the petition has reached 100,000 signatures. Here's hoping.

You old gits need to get over it and accept that football will never be the circus it was when you were young. Football matches shouldn't be like concerts with crushing and surging crowds.

Really bored of this discuss from the same old farts who want to relive their glory days of yesteryear. There is no benefit to bringing standing back at all, in any form.

Quoted from Kris2

You old gits need to get over it and accept that football will never be the circus it was when you were young. Football matches shouldn't be like concerts with crushing and surging crowds.

Really bored of this discuss from the same old farts who want to relive their glory days of yesteryear. There is no benefit to bringing standing back at all, in any form.

Erm, I think this comment makes you, now let me think, oh yeah.

A di ck.

That would have sufficed, I agree!

Its down to the individual Kris. Id prefer to stand tbh if i had a choice and i wasnt part of the crazy gang in the ponny (although i did go in there alot) for me it was much better in generating an atmosphere. Compared to the upper findus where i go now and most of the time theres the odd "maaaaaariners".

Quoted from Kris2

You old gits need to get over it and accept that football will never be the circus it was when you were young. Football matches shouldn't be like concerts with crushing and surging crowds.

Really bored of this discuss from the same old farts who want to relive their glory days of yesteryear. There is no benefit to bringing standing back at all, in any form.

It's called safe standing for a reason; the above scenario doesn't happen. Have you actually seen it in action?

Quoted from Kris2

You old gits need to get over it and accept that football will never be the circus it was when you were young. Football matches shouldn't be like concerts with crushing and surging crowds.

Really bored of this discuss from the same old farts who want to relive their glory days of yesteryear. There is no benefit to bringing standing back at all, in any form.

Spoken like a true Arsenal fan.
Of course if you were that bored, you have got the option not to join the fcuk in !!
Just leave us old farts to wallow in our history.
I remember climbing over the bog wall to get in the Barrets Stand for nowt.

Quoted from Kris2

Really bored of this discuss from the same old farts who want to relive their glory days of yesteryear.

Well you can kindly get yourself to intercourse then, can’t you?

Take this thread down please till it happens

*** UPDATE ***

Shaun Harvey and the EFL have, oddly, been very supportive of fans having a choice on sitting or standing.

They’re currently looking for views from fans on the proposals through a quick survey.

It’s about 6 tick-box questions and takes about a minute to complete. Everyone should complete this whether you opposed to the idea or support it.

It’s about choice. You wouldn’t expect such a lack of choice at any other commercial venue, why at football?

https://goodform.researchfeedback.net/wh/s.asp?k=152464904563

Quoted from rancido

[/b]

That's wishful thinking ! In the 1999/00 season we had 10 home games where the gate was below 6,000 and 6 of those were below 5,500. Even our opening home game of the season to Stockport only attracted 5,528 and this was at Championship level. At the time the capacity of BP was 10,033. I think a lot of fans look at our past gates with rose-tinted glasses and don't realise how mediocre the gates were for that level of football. Yes, we often recall a game against the likes of Barnsley ( 8742 ) but forget games like W.B.A ( 4036 ). I know the away support can have a big impact on the gate but the reality is different to the recollection as regards home support.

Around that time I used to visit the clubs offices on business a lot - usually weekly.

Tim Harvey and Tony Richardson and others in there were at a loss at how a club with the catchment area of ours could get so low gates in the second tier. I think they thought a new stadium might be the answer as Blundell Park then was how Blundell Park is now.

I remember a night game against Wolves and thinking just prior to kick off how painfully thin the home crowd was, and the crowds were really very poor for the level we were at and the calibre of teams we were facing.

I think it was a mixture of things that kept the crowds so low. Believe it or not apathy that we were in the "Championship" played a part; the stadium and associated parking played a part, as did the idea that there was nothing else the club could aspire to - in the sense the Premier League was completely out of the question so the only way was down!

I remember the club being irritated that the ticket sales were so low, feeling that the public didn't realise what they had got - and subsequent events have proved them right.

And yet only a few years before we were getting pretty good gates when BP had a higher capacity so it is difficult to understand what put the Grimsby public off. Every club has boardroom stuff and new managers to contend with, but the public seemed to fall out of love with the club.

I think our gates now are not too far off what we used to get for some games at Championship level which is utterly bizarre when you think about it; a town of our size and catchment area should surely be able to attract 10,000 if we were top end of league 1 with the facilities to match, but whether we will ever find out or ever get a sea change in the clubs fortunes we will have to wait and see.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Around that time I used to visit the clubs offices on business a lot - usually weekly.

Tim Harvey and Tony Richardson and others in there were at a loss at how a club with the catchment area of ours could get so low gates in the second tier. I think they thought a new stadium might be the answer as Blundell Park then was how Blundell Park is now.

I remember a night game against Wolves and thinking just prior to kick off how painfully thin the home crowd was, and the crowds were really very poor for the level we were at and the calibre of teams we were facing.

I think it was a mixture of things that kept the crowds so low. Believe it or not apathy that we were in the "Championship" played a part; the stadium and associated parking played a part, as did the idea that there was nothing else the club could aspire to - in the sense the Premier League was completely out of the question so the only way was down!

I remember the club being irritated that the ticket sales were so low, feeling that the public didn't realise what they had got - and subsequent events have proved them right.

And yet only a few years before we were getting pretty good gates when BP had a higher capacity so it is difficult to understand what put the Grimsby public off. Every club has boardroom stuff and new managers to contend with, but the public seemed to fall out of love with the club.

I think our gates now are not too far off what we used to get for some games at Championship level which is utterly bizarre when you think about it; a town of our size and catchment area should surely be able to attract 10,000 if we were top end of league 1 with the facilities to match, but whether we will ever find out or ever get a sea change in the clubs fortunes we will have to wait and see.

This is the cycle of apathy GTFC have been caught up in for years it`s no one person to blame but the mindset is all wrong in regards to getting more fans in .The the rare time GTFC have a bit of football fortune the Club fail miserably to capitilise because the likes of Harvey/Richardson/Wraith /Smith etc did nothing but sit back and wait for more fans to appear.This process has never worked to a great extent before even under Buckley when we played brilliant football the gates were never through the roof and maintained.That team were not marketed correctly by the Club then 98 it happened again 30k went to Wembley yet the following Season the best average for donkeys years was 7k due to the Clubs malaise. Square pegs round holes the Club needs a massive overhaul and it`s high time someone with some drive took charge of that office.The fans are out there GTFC just have no clue how to harnass them.