He took it out ...... has the penny dropped yet ?

Quoted from fleabag1970

He took it out ...... has the penny dropped yet ?

I am no fan of Fenty as most on here know,

Fenty put in an extra £200,000 before the play off game to cover exspenses  it was a short deal loan and took it out later as agreed,

It has nothing to do with his benign loans

Quoted from grimsby pete

I am no fan of Fenty as most on here know,

Fenty put in an extra £200,000 before the play off game to cover exspenses  it was a short deal loan and took it out later as agreed,

It has nothing to do with his benign loans

You've changed since the ban Pete   ;D

Quoted from promotion plaice

You've changed since the ban Pete   ;D

No always like to see fair play, :)

Have you read my post on " the fu  ck off fenty "  thread  PP   ;D

Quoted from grimsby pete

I am no fan of Fenty as most on here know,

Fenty put in an extra £200,000 before the play off game to cover exspenses  it was a short deal loan and took it out later as agreed,

It has nothing to do with his benign loans

I've always had an issue with this. How on earth would it cost £200,000 to cover the expenses for three games? If that was the case then a 50 game season would cost you £3.4million before you're even taking players wages into account. And it's not like there would have been a large police bill for a game against Braintree and their 50 fans.

Perhaps I'm naive but what costs for the play offs would be anywhere near this expensive? I thought at the time that this was a bullshit excuse and I've not heard or read anything that has changed my mind.

Quoted from mariner91

I've always had an issue with this. How on earth would it cost £200,000 to cover the expenses for three games? If that was the case then a 50 game season would cost you £3.4million before you're even taking players wages into account. And it's not like there would have been a large police bill for a game against Braintree and their 50 fans.

Perhaps I'm naive but what costs for the play offs would be anywhere near this expensive? I thought at the time that this was a bullshit excuse and I've not heard or read anything that has changed my mind.

Good point M91

Something doesn’t add up....maybe our accountant needs to be asked to explain how it cost so much?

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm I smell something

Probably have to pay for Wembley tickets up front, 10k at average £30 is £300k, just a thought!

Quoted from Gaffer58

Probably have to pay for Wembley tickets up front, 10k at average £30 is £300k, just a thought!

We didn't buy the tickets from the club though, it was all done through some shitty company that charged us for the "service".

We must have bought coach travel and the suits from the mafia or something.

Quoted from mariner91

We didn't buy the tickets from the club though, it was all done through some shitty company that charged us for the "service".

Well that's one theory solved then.

I am sure if you look at the accounts you will see that £200,000 was put in before the play off final,

Unless Mr shut up is a dodgy accountant. ;)

Quoted from FishOutOfWater

Good point M91

Something doesn’t add up....maybe our accountant needs to be asked to explain how it cost so much?

Literally

Quoted from grimsby pete

I am sure if you look at the accounts you will see that £200,000 was put in before the play off final,

Unless Mr shut up is a dodgy accountant. ;)

Expenses are never shown in timed detail like that.

Quoted from mariner91

I've always had an issue with this. How on earth would it cost £200,000 to cover the expenses for three games? If that was the case then a 50 game season would cost you £3.4million before you're even taking players wages into account. And it's not like there would have been a large police bill for a game against Braintree and their 50 fans.

Perhaps I'm naive but what costs for the play offs would be anywhere near this expensive? I thought at the time that this was a bullshit excuse and I've not heard or read anything that has changed my mind.

Two words - "Win Bonus" remember they do this for a living.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Two words - "Win Bonus" remember they do this for a living.

There's absolutely no way that we paid £200,000 out in bonuses for reaching the play offs. And it can't be bonuses for promotion either because we were told the "loan" was put in before the play offs.

40 rooms at £200 each x2 nights
Food @ £3000 per day
Hire training facilities @ £6000 per day
Coach hire £2000
Suits at £200 each x 30 staff (+ £40 Dave Moore shorts)


Rough estimate, but
cant think what else we would pay for at Wembley ??

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

40 rooms at £200 each x2 nights
Food @ £3000 per day
Hire training facilities @ £6000 per day
Coach hire £2000
Suits at £200 each x 30 staff (+ £40 Dave Moore shorts)


Rough estimate, but
cant think what else we would pay for at Wembley ??

a few weeks extra wages i would think as the players are only paid up till the last game of the normal season and the playoffs and the cup final  are after that.

Quoted from cleethorpes_mariner

a few weeks extra wages i would think as the players are only paid up till the last game of the normal season and the playoffs and the cup final  are after that.

Pretty sure that isn't the case.

Quoted from mariner91

There's absolutely no way that we paid £200,000 out in bonuses for reaching the play offs. And it can't be bonuses for promotion either because we were told the "loan" was put in before the play offs.

Really??? Yes not £200k in bonus alone but, Match day squad of 15 @ say 5k (min) each = £75k add employer NI & pensons takes it to £85k  

Then add £10k bonus for Hurst, £5K each for Doig and Dave Moore.

Add say 20 London rate hotel rooms (min) x 3 nights, food, travel, training facilities, suits and sundries, urine up afterwards ..... it mounts up for sure.

The bonus structure would have been agreed wel before the play offs as an incentive to get there.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Really??? Yes not £200k in bonus alone but, Match day squad of 15 @ say 5k (min) each = £75k add employer NI & pensons takes it to £85k  

Then add £10k bonus for Hurst, £5K each for Doig and Dave Moore.

Add say 20 London rate hotel rooms (min) x 3 nights, food, travel, training facilities, suits and sundries, urine up afterwards ..... it mounts up for sure.

The bonus structure would have been agreed wel before the play offs as an incentive to get there.

Even with those figures plucked out of thin air, it's still absolutely nowhere near £200K. It's also bizarre how we had the same expenses the season before but no loan was ever put in or taken out thereafter. It's not as though the cash flow for the club would have changed in those 12 months and the season we went up we averaged 700 more at home games on average plus had the extra cash from Operation Promotion available even though that supposedly made no difference.

Why would we pay a bonus before the play offs?

If you want to own a club then there’s the price

They were all treated to a burger and a beer at Wembley. Cleaned out the bank account.

Directors' loans each year for the past 3 years (would post more but the link I had with decades worth of accounts doesn't work now):

2015: £2,244,550
2016: £2,209,700
2017: £2,000,000

So they've gone down by nearly a quarter of a million in 2 years. Which is a positive sign because it shows the club can be self-sustaining if managed sensibly. I wish I still had my copies from previous years so I could see when that number last increased.

Off subject but I also noticed that Employment Costs went up by £300k from 2015 to 16 with only an increase of 2 full time employees, and a reduction of 28 in part-time and match day staff. So that £110k didn't help secure better players did it Mr Marley.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Directors' loans each year for the past 3 years (would post more but the link I had with decades worth of accounts doesn't work now):

2015: £2,244,550
2016: £2,209,700
2017: £2,000,000

So they've gone down by nearly a quarter of a million in 2 years. Which is a positive sign because it shows the club can be self-sustaining if managed sensibly. I wish I still had my copies from previous years so I could see when that number last increased.

Off subject but I also noticed that Employment Costs went up by £300k from 2015 to 16 with only an increase of 2 full time employees, and a reduction of 28 in part-time and match day staff. So that £110k didn't help secure better players did it Mr Marley.

If we go down that’s all hope of the benign loans ever being paid off imo

Fentys coat from abbeygate and the dent doctor for his merc.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Directors' loans each year for the past 3 years (would post more but the link I had with decades worth of accounts doesn't work now):

2015: £2,244,550
2016: £2,209,700
2017: £2,000,000

So they've gone down by nearly a quarter of a million in 2 years. Which is a positive sign because it shows the club can be self-sustaining if managed sensibly. I wish I still had my copies from previous years so I could see when that number last increased.

Off subject but I also noticed that Employment Costs went up by £300k from 2015 to 16 with only an increase of 2 full time employees, and a reduction of 28 in part-time and match day staff. So that £110k didn't help secure better players did it Mr Marley.

2009: £1,770,000
2010: £2,371,200
2011: £2,034,700
2012: £1,982,700
2013: £1,984,700
2014: £2,059,700

Quoted from TheRealJohnLewis

2009: £1,770,000
2010: £2,371,200
2011: £2,034,700
2012: £1,982,700
2013: £1,984,700
2014: £2,059,700

Cheers JL. Interesting that it went down in the first year after relegation. Sounds like a £300k dent in the competitive budget that Neil Woods had to play with.

Fenty could come on here and explain ,

BUT

Not only is he not talking to us,

He is not talking to anybody since Jolley joined,

Well done Michael now can you get the rubbish players win a match or two soon please.

Quoted from mariner91

Even with those figures plucked out of thin air, it's still absolutely nowhere near £200K. It's also bizarre how we had the same expenses the season before but no loan was ever put in or taken out thereafter. It's not as though the cash flow for the club would have changed in those 12 months and the season we went up we averaged 700 more at home games on average plus had the extra cash from Operation Promotion available even though that supposedly made no difference.

I' not sue how you know it was "absolutely nowhere near £200K".That assertion is just as much plucking figures out of thin air to be honest.

Yes the cash flow may have gone up but so did the expenses, better players cost more. In the promotion season we actually went to Wembley twice so a lot of the expenses incurred on 15/05/16 will have been repeated on the 22/05/16, not all but some.

Even though JF put £200K in the club may not have actually spent it all he could have just provided that amount as a budget pot.

2009: £1,770,000
2010: £2,371,200
2011: £2,034,700
2012: £1,982,700
2013: £1,984,700
2014: £2,059,700
2015: £2,244,550
2016: £2,209,700
2017: £2,000,000

What it shows in relative terms regarding running a football club, is that there's been no investment from the directors in the past decade or so. In that time Parker, Mullen and the Trust have invested around £1m in shares, yet the directors who have invested nothing have had the benefit of spending their money. Seems a little brazen to me. And the worst fact about those figures is that there has not been any significant boardroom investment in the club since a few years after the turn of the century. Pure investment stagnation, and if you stagnate in the football industry and don't invest in football specialists in the boardroom, it generally means you're going backwards..

Quoted from Bigdog

2009: £1,770,000
2010: £2,371,200
2011: £2,034,700
2012: £1,982,700
2013: £1,984,700
2014: £2,059,700
2015: £2,244,550
2016: £2,209,700
2017: £2,000,000

What it shows in relative terms regarding running a football club, is that there's been no investment from the directors in the past decade or so. In that time Parker, Mullen and the Trust have invested around £1m in shares, yet the directors who have invested nothing have had the benefit of spending their money. Seems a little brazen to me. And the worst fact about those figures is that there has not been any significant investment in the club since just after the turn of the century. Pure investment stagnation, and if you stagnate in the football industry and don't invest in football specialists in the boardroom, it generally means you're going backwards..

What do you mean by investments? Would that be loans to the club or cash gifts.

Quoted from Bigdog

2009: £1,770,000
2010: £2,371,200
2011: £2,034,700
2012: £1,982,700
2013: £1,984,700
2014: £2,059,700
2015: £2,244,550
2016: £2,209,700
2017: £2,000,000



What it shows in relative terms regarding running a football club, is that there's been no investment from the directors in the past decade or so. In that time Parker, Mullen and the Trust have invested around £1m in shares, yet the directors who have invested nothing have had the benefit of spending their money. Seems a little brazen to me. And the worst fact about those figures is that there has not been any significant investment in the club since just after the turn of the century. Pure investment stagnation, and if you stagnate in the football industry and don't really know the game itself, it generally means you're going backwards..

Interesting stuff, the £1 million in shares was that amount generated from sales of equity?

There is an interesting scenario when you look at those numbers, I may have a few facts out of kilter here but in essence hasn't Lincoln's revival been initiated by some South African's committing to £350K a year for 5 years, or something similar? That afforded them the opportunity to go for St Danny & Nicky and back them to a degree, the rest is history and I suspect their story is yet to be concluded as they accrue further wealth from on the pitch success and relatively simple fan engagement.

The cash investment isn't all that's been missing over the last 8 years or so it's the investment in good will and positivity throughout the club and this has been neglected by the "free mason" style board that have repelled any form of creativity and imagination.

The saying goes "dogs look like their owners" well IMHO football clubs look like their owners too and ours is a sad shadow of what it once was.

Brace yourself for a bumpy ride ladies and gents as relegation looms large and it will get a lot worse before it gets any better.      

Quoted from rancido

What do you mean by investments? Would that be loans to the club or cash gifts.

I get your point, as I wouldn't want the club to increase indebtedness by accepting any more director's loans and feel that the only way forward would be for investors to buy shares and have the courage of their own convictions by believing they could add value to the club which would also spike the future share price. Maybe I should have coupled the stagnation in new share issues with director's loans covering the same period. This will also show a long term stagnation of share investment too, notwithstanding MP, LM, the Trust and a relatively small increase by JF a good few years back.

The long term lack of investment at the club is killing our club, it's a massive part of where we are now. Not just the hard cash element but maybe more importantly the lack of investment in football industry specialists..


Edit - Totally agree with your points below Herts

The cash investment isn't all that's been missing over the last 8 years or so it's the investment in good will and positivity throughout the club and this has been neglected by the "free mason" style board that have repelled any form of creativity and imagination.

The saying goes "dogs look like their owners" well IMHO football clubs look like their owners too and ours is a sad shadow of what it once was.

Quoted from grimsby pete

Fenty could come on here and explain ,

BUT

Not only is he not talking to us,

He is not talking to anybody since Jolley joined,

Well done Michael now can you get the rubbish players win a match or two soon please.

Will he turn up at the next forum?

Quoted from Bigdog

2009: £1,770,000
2010: £2,371,200
2011: £2,034,700
2012: £1,982,700
2013: £1,984,700
2014: £2,059,700
2015: £2,244,550
2016: £2,209,700
2017: £2,000,000
..

I don't believe the story that the £200k JF has withdrawn his money he put in prior to the final.  If you put money in and take it out within the same reporting period, you end up with a neutral figure i.e the same one you started with.

Roughly £200k was put in during the 14/15 season but we lost in the semis that season, so I'm calling bullshit.

He has taken a slice of Bogle's profit to reduce his loan, simple as.

Even after all the austerity (Tories love a bit of austerity), cuts of Non League and Bogle's sale, we are still in a excrement place, because of JF decisions. He should write off some if not all of his loans as this is ALL his fault.

Quoted from TheRealJohnLewis

I don't believe the story that the £200k JF has withdrawn his money he put in prior to the final.  If you put money in and take it out within the same reporting period, you end up with a neutral figure i.e the same one you started with.

Roughly £200k was put in during the 14/15 season but we lost in the semis that season, so I'm calling bullshit.

He has taken a slice of Bogle's profit to reduce his loan, simple as.

Even after all the austerity (Tories love a bit of austerity), cuts of Non League and Bogle's sale, we are still in a excrement place, because of JF decisions. He should write off some if not all of his loans as this is ALL his fault.

Why drag politics into it ?

If we do survive this season Fenty better give Jolley a decent budget for next season,

Because non of us wants to go through another year like this last one again.

By decent I am not talking about an extra £200,000/

Quoted from rancido

Why drag politics into it ?

Because politics are entwined with everything to do with this club. Boardroom politics, Local politics, National politics it all effects the club and the people involved with it, either directly or indirectly.  

You can't hide from politics, you can try and ignore it though, which you should have done with my previous comment!

Load of shite.I challenge Mr Fenty to prove he put this money in.A little bird  At the club confirmed to me that it's all shite coming out of the non chairmans gob.Show us the proof Mr fenty.I challenge you

Hmm! Contentious first post there.

Welcome!

Thank you

Quoted from grimsby pete

Fenty could come on here and explain ,

BUT

Not only is he not talking to us,

He is not talking to anybody since Jolley joined,

Well done Michael now can you get the rubbish players win a match or two soon please.

Not sure I'd like to see one of his explanations. It could only make things worse going by past occasions.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Not sure I'd like to see one of his explanations. It could only make things worse going by past occasions.

Spot on ... I personally have no wish to listen to anything he’s got say other than I’m leaving and the loans are quashed

Quoted from grimsby pete

If we do survive this season Fenty better give Jolley a decent budget for next season,

Because non of us wants to go through another year like this last one again.

By decent I am not talking about an extra £200,000/

We won't stay up Pete and regardless of where we play next season JF has been clear he ain't putting any of his own  money into the club, why do you think they made the point of talking about bringing on you talent when Jolley was appointed.

The only money MJ will get will be based upon season ticket sales and projected income. There will be no cash benevolence from the gang of four.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

We won't stay up Pete and regardless of where we play next season JF has been clear he ain't putting any of his own  money into the club, why do you think they made the point of talking about bringing on you talent when Jolley was appointed.

The only money MJ will get will be based upon season ticket sales and projected income. There will be no cash benevolence from the gang of four.

Don't give up yet mate there are 2 teams just as bad as us,

A draw against both of them might be enough to stay up,



I know,  I am clutching at straws. :B

Quoted from grimsby pete

Fenty could come on here and explain ,

BUT

Not only is he not talking to us,

He is not talking to anybody since Jolley joined,

Well done Michael now can you get the rubbish players win a match or two soon please.

:X :X I do think you are funny at times Pete

Quoted from HertsGTFC

I' not sue how you know it was "absolutely nowhere near £200K".That assertion is just as much plucking figures out of thin air to be honest.

Yes the cash flow may have gone up but so did the expenses, better players cost more. In the promotion season we actually went to Wembley twice so a lot of the expenses incurred on 15/05/16 will have been repeated on the 22/05/16, not all but some.

Even though JF put £200K in the club may not have actually spent it all he could have just provided that amount as a budget pot.

Don't we get anything out of going to Wembley or do we play for FREE.?

Quoted from TheRealJohnLewis

Because politics are entwined with everything to do with this club. Boardroom politics, Local politics, National politics it all effects the club and the people involved with it, either directly or indirectly.  

You can't hide from politics, you can try and ignore it though, which you should have done with my previous comment!

Doesn't look like the new ground will save us. The council has outlined planning for 15000 new houses in the next few years so who is going to buy OUR houses to provide the funds for our new ground.

Quoted from golfer

Don't we get anything out of going to Wembley or do we play for FREE.?

Yes but afterwards, you can't play in finals on approval ;)

He took out what he loaned to the club for the Wembley trips but it wasn't 200k. He couldn't explain where that extra went to me before Xmas when I asked him about it. He said he thought the accountant had explained it at the forum but I certainly don't recall that. Then he got defensive and asked why he should have to explain anything at all.... Draw your own conclusions from that.

Quoted from Biccys

He took out what he loaned to the club for the Wembley trips but it wasn't 200k. He couldn't explain where that extra went to me before Xmas when I asked him about it. He said he thought the accountant had explained it at the forum but I certainly don't recall that. Then he got defensive and asked why he should have to explain anything at all.... Draw your own conclusions from that.

I've already drawn mine. Exit strategy.

We can but hope Ginny, we can but hope.

Quoted from Biccys

We can but hope Ginny, we can but hope.

Yeah, it is more in hope. Bit like supporting GTFC.

It's the hope that kills you

It's the hope that kills you

Quoted from Biccys

He took out what he loaned to the club for the Wembley trips but it wasn't 200k. He couldn't explain where that extra went to me before Xmas when I asked him about it. He said he thought the accountant had explained it at the forum but I certainly don't recall that. Then he got defensive and asked why he should have to explain anything at all.... Draw your own conclusions from that.

You’re not mistaken Biccys. Marley explained nothing of the sort.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

You’re not mistaken Biccys. Marley explained nothing of the sort.

He explained it at the AGM. Starts at 4mins 20 secs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGT58kOXD-8

Oh sodomist, do I have to sit through him speaking again?

You don't have to.  ;)

I didn't but I did in the end. That was from the club AGM not the Forum as Biccy's was told. But still explain it Mr Marley did.

Soooo, if you take that £200k out of the directors loans for 2016 (ignoring the fact Mullen loaned some money which was reallocated from director's loans) then you get something looking like this.

2009: £1,770,000
2010: £2,371,200
2011: £2,034,700
2012: £1,982,700
2013: £1,984,700
2014: £2,059,700
2015: £2,244,550
2016: £2,000,000
2017: £2,000,000

Which means John Fenty didn't take back any of his loans in 2017, but there was £245k taken out in 2016. So we end up in the same scenario, just a year earlier!

And the conclusion is still that this club is sustainable without any sugar daddies giving the club money.

Is there any interest attached to any of the loans?

Quoted from Biccys

He took out what he loaned to the club for the Wembley trips but it wasn't 200k. He couldn't explain where that extra went to me before Xmas when I asked him about it. He said he thought the accountant had explained it at the forum but I certainly don't recall that. Then he got defensive and asked why he should have to explain anything at all.... Draw your own conclusions from that.

He should have to explain because he is the nominated acting non chairman.

I just dont understand as soon as anything at all gets asked he is not comfortable about or he thinks its unsuitable the man goes all defensive , its like no matter what dont question him or his decisions because you wont like the answer.