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It seems that Shaun Harvey is well down the road of restructuring the FL, increasing the divisions, changing the format and dates of FA Cup games etc.

It would be very interesting to know what Mr Fenty's response is and 1) if it has been discussed with the fans representatives i.e. the Trust and 2) if that has happened, when will fans have some involvement/say

Doncaster Rovers have asked for fans imput, we, as far as I know, have had no involvement which doesnt surprise me

http://www.fsf.org.uk/assets/Downloads/News/2016/Whole-Game-Solution-ELF-17-08-16.pdf

http://www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/football-league-restructure-plan-taken-to-clubs

Just beat me to it Cloudy :)

So he wants to reduce the number of midweek games by moving some FA Cup games to midweek and also change the format of the EFL Trophy from a knockout to a league system which means we still have two pointless games to play in this dreadful competition.

He also wants to scrap FA Cup replays where some of the smaller teams may lose out on potential big games.

The bloke sounds like a complete member.

Does the Football League need a restructure?

If The Premier League think they need a mid season break ( to jet off to Malaysia or China) then I have no problem with I dont see any benefit to Leagues one or two of a break.

It states that the clubs dont necessarily want to reduce the number of fixtures but it seems Harvey will ensure it happens anyway.

This 'Whole of the Game Solution' is absolute balderdash imo. The Premier League is about money, glitz, glamour and showbiz and other than a spherical ball has little in common with Leagues One or Two. Why should they be treating it as one, it hasnt been 'as one' since at least 1992 and the gap is getting bigger by the day,

I have no problem with that, they can go play in a European League or Intergalactic Conference for all I care BUT someone needs to safeguard the fabric of English Footballing Society which is the Football Pyramid beyond the Premier League

"Whole Game Solution" proposal. Doesn't there need to be a problem before you need to come up with a solution?

The problem is exclusively with the never ending greed of the premier league. intercourse off trying to destroy the pyramid so the richest can continue to hoard hundreds of young players.

Quoted from Cloudy

Does the Football League need a restructure?

If The Premier League think they need a mid season break ( to jet off to Malaysia or China) then I have no problem with I dont see any benefit to Leagues one or two of a break.

It states that the clubs don't necessarily want to reduce the number of fixtures but it seems Harvey will ensure it happens anyway.

This 'Whole of the Game Solution' is absolute balderdash imo. The Premier League is about money, glitz, glamour and showbiz and other than a spherical ball has little in common with Leagues One or Two. Why should they be treating it as one, it hasnt been 'as one' since at least 1992 and the gap is getting bigger by the day,

I have no problem with that, they can go play in a European League or Intergalactic Conference for all I care BUT someone needs to safeguard the fabric of English Footballing Society which is the Football Pyramid beyond the Premier League

Yeah agree with this. Can live with the FA cup becoming a midweek competition rounds 4-6 to accommodate a midwinter break but don't see why anything else needs to be done lower down the leagues. How many of the Euro squad were playing in the EFL? and why would Sky want no football to show during the winter break? that seems a little crazy.

It's all about B teams which nobody but a few prem clubs want (and it seems several of them don't want it either)

Shaun Harvey is an enemy of football. These changes are all shite - there's nothing wrong with the structure of the league as it is. Why would I want Town to play 8 less games a season? flipping bald weirdo.

Quoted from horsforthmariner

Yeah agree with this. Can live with the FA cup becoming a midweek competition rounds 4-6 to accommodate a midwinter break but don't see why anything else needs to be done lower down the leagues. How many of the Euro squad were playing in the EFL? and why would Sky want no football to show during the winter break? that seems a little crazy.

It's all about B teams which nobody but a few prem clubs want (and it seems several of them don't want it either)

This...

Where should these additional teams come from?

Where should they not come from?

This in itself hints at B teams. This looks like a backup to the balls up that is the Checkatrade Cup.

I'd be in favour of a League 1 2 3 system ( with league 3 only being regionalised). The additional teams should come from the National League, as we all know the standard in that league is just as good as many League 2 sides. If Premier League clubs want to be involved they should be setting up partnerships with lower league sides instead of drowning them out.

Who is football run for. Is it run for the clubs, the players or the fans?

The authorities in this country go on and on about the wonders of a winter break, but the tradition in this country is for the fans to enjoy matches on Boxing Day and New Year's Day - some of the biggest and most eagerly-anticipated fixtures of the year.

Sure, it would be easier for the players, officials and authorities to have a break in late December/early January and the odd game here and there wouldn't have to be cancelled, but what about the fans, without whom the game wouldn't exist? Nobody gives a thought to them, whenever new proposals are rolled out.

I'd bet a whole pound on Shaun Harvey being involved with the premier league in the next couple of years, that's what this is all about, him showing the richer boys up the road what a great innovative administer he is. Also the premier league don't give a fig about the fans, tv pays the bills.

Not enough detail provided. What is the problem that is trying to be addressed? The whole document that has been circulated to the 72 clubs should be made public.

What happens then if the "mid-season break" is in December and the weather is fine but then come January when fixtures restart the country is hit by bad weather and games get called off?

As for regionalising and adding another 12 teams then they can do one for me. 1) It took us long enough to get out of non-league so letting teams have a free pass to promotion just isn't right and 2) I enjoy the longer trips, i.e. weekends down in Torquay etc.

Two winter breaks would mean that England would definitely win the next World Cup and Euros.

Will this man Harvey just go away.
He will not rest until his incompetent inflated ego is satisfied.

Just clear off and work for the Premiershite and let the EFL be run by people who have the EFL fans at heart.

Quoted from LH

Two winter breaks would mean that England would definitely win the next World Cup and Euros.

Nah, I reckon semi finals World Cup and losing finalists at the Euro's.

But we could improve on this if the EFL Trophy is allowed to develop the Shaun Harvey way !! ;)

Well as the clubs responce has to be received by tomorrow by the EFL then i presume the board and all its members have already fully considered the plan that was issued prior to the Summer jolly boys outing to Portugal and that our responce to those proposals is actually reflective of all parties.

One for the forthcoming Fans Forum i suspect ; Hello John, can you reveal what the clubs responce was to the EFL Leagues Re-structure proposals ?

One of the most worrying themes that pops up a couple of times in the document issued is "whatever happens the clubs must not be worse off financially" .....i feel thats what the Club representatives will focus on more than anything else....and again no solid plans as to how that might happen..just a hope that more weekend Premier games on the telly will increase Premier League income which will filter down the game... HA !! Because that has worked out sooooo fking well so far in the 24 yrs of the Premier League to date.

Quoted from horsforthmariner

Yeah agree with this. Can live with the FA cup becoming a midweek competition rounds 4-6 to accommodate a midwinter break but don't see why anything else needs to be done lower down the leagues. How many of the Euro squad were playing in the EFL? and why would Sky want no football to show during the winter break? that seems a little crazy.

It's all about B teams which nobody but a few prem clubs want (and it seems several of them don't want it either)

Not sure how many times we would be involved in rounds 4 - 6 but the FA Cup has to be on a Saturday or it would lose some magic in my opinion.

Nowt wrong with the football league, why change it?
Totally love the FA cup, it needs to be on a Saturday and replays add to the romance. Hands off our game you cretins!!!

A full and open debate about the structure of English football is, in my opinion, long overdue. But, because of the disastrous way in which Shaun Harvey and his colleagues have enforced an unwanted experiment on the game through the competition we participated in the other night, any proposals that they put forward will be treated with, at best, suspicion because of the damage they have already done. For that, Mr Harvey should now be out of a job.

On the proposals in their present form, I don't object to the idea of restructuring on principle. But I don't like the idea of regionalisation, mainly because recent evidence from the Conference leagues with clubs like Bishop's Stortford, Gloucester City, Lowestoft Town and Oxford City playing in the north division shows the weakness of such a simple structure. Similarly, while I would be prepared to scrap replays, I would be opposed to efforts to move the FA Cup to midweek. It has already been devalued in recent times and I think that would see it similarly weakened. However, I would support the idea of a winter break for the Premier League only in order to give the Football League that period in the spotlight on its own.

Yet the repeated references to meetings with the Premier League and the FA in the letter posted elsewhere, with no mention of the National League whatsoever, make it pretty clear to me that this is about one thing only - introducing B teams to the league structure and I cannot accept that. I know it happens in other countries. I even watched a game between two B sides when I was in Madrid last year. But, quite apart from the risk of further eroding the great traditions of our game by going down this path, we have seen enough this week to know that the alleged justification for doing this, the supposed development of young English talent, is nothing more than a lie.

Let us not forget either that one of the stated reasons for forming the Premier League was that it would make the England national team better. It may have made a lot of money for a lot of people but, on that measure at least, the Premier League is a miserable failure and anything that gives it additional power over our game must be resisted at all costs.

In 1960 the Football League got rid of regionalisation for the simple reason the balance of geography didn't work. Hence the old Div.4 was formed.

I can't see that there is anything wrong with the format of the FL as it is. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. So you have to wonder, what it Harvey's motive?

The only adjustment that makes sense is to invite the Conference to be a new L3 with sensible promotion/relegation numbers. That would cure the problem of teams being stuck among the dead men like we were. But even that change isn't crucial.

If I had a magic wand there is one thing I would do and that is make the PL hand over 50% of the obscene TV money they got this year to the FL and the FA instead of most of it going abroad and to agents.

John Fenty has responded to the story in the GT:

http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/fenty-we-will-not-rush-vote/story-29676900-detail/story.html

Warning therefore on the advert bombardment.

He basically says the club will wait till we have all the facts to respond, trust him and don't panic.

I think the big issue is not once does he say the club will consult with fans to discuss how to respond. Also after a summer debacle involving B teams in the trophy, supporter liason being the wife of a director and announcng the position via facebook group, and most recently the Mighty fiasco I don't know how much I trust him and the club to respond in a suitable manner.

I suppose this might not be a surprise considering hs published comments on them before but he doesn't suggest that the introduction of B teams would be a red line or reassure fans in any sense regarding that. I get the idea that we should wait for all the facts before judging but when the EFL have ignored fans views so clearly and seem not to care they have buit up such a level of distrust I think any proposal they make we will always be suspicious.

Quoted from Caesar

John Fenty has responded to the story in the GT:

http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/fenty-we-will-not-rush-vote/story-29676900-detail/story.html

Warning therefore on the advert bombardment.

He basically says the club will wait till we have all the facts to respond, trust him and don't panic.

I think the big issue is not once does he say the club will consult with fans to discuss how to respond. Also after a summer debacle involving B teams in the trophy, supporter liason being the wife of a director and announcng the position via facebook group, and most recently the Mighty fiasco I don't know how much I trust him and the club to respond in a suitable manner.

I suppose this might not be a surprise considering hs published comments on them before but he doesn't suggest that the introduction of B teams would be a red line or reassure fans in any sense regarding that. I get the idea that we should wait for all the facts before judging but when the EFL have ignored fans views so clearly and seem not to care they have buit up such a level of distrust I think any proposal they make we will always be suspicious.

Trust John Fenty, a man who voted for B teams to be allowed in the JPT,

Quoted from Caesar

I think the big issue is not once does he say the club will consult with fans to discuss how to respond.

This.

Apart from the obvious joke that he creates by saying we should 'trust' him, why is it up to 'him' to decide?

It's not.

It's up to us - the fans - and Fenty is merely our mouthpiece.

He should add information where possible, or bring in his business sense to potentially play devil's advocate to ensure a healthy debate is had, but ultimately a decision like this, which affects our club directly, should be taken by the FANS.

So I'd like Fenty to tell us just exactly how he's consulting with us, and once he's done that I'd like him to share with us what he plans to do or say on behalf of GTFC when he returns a report, or votes, or whatever.

That's how it should work and I'm absolutely copulated off that I even have to write this because it's like page 1 of the democracy book.

Quoted from RichMariner

This.

Apart from the obvious joke that he creates by saying we should 'trust' him, why is it up to 'him' to decide?

It's not.

It's up to us - the fans - and Fenty is merely our mouthpiece.

He should add information where possible, or bring in his business sense to potentially play devil's advocate to ensure a healthy debate is had, but ultimately a decision like this, which affects our club directly, should be taken by the FANS.

So I'd like Fenty to tell us just exactly how he's consulting with us, and once he's done that I'd like him to share with us what he plans to do or say on behalf of GTFC when he returns a report, or votes, or whatever.

That's how it should work and I'm absolutely copulated off that I even have to write this because it's like page 1 of the democracy book.

He'll probably be thinking it's all best decided by his political mantra of 'market forces'

Let the strong get stronger and the weak.... well they'll just have to feed off scraps and be thankful for what they get 😕

Quoted from RichMariner

This.

Apart from the obvious joke that he creates by saying we should 'trust' him, why is it up to 'him' to decide?

It's not.

It's up to us - the fans - and Fenty is merely our mouthpiece.

He should add information where possible, or bring in his business sense to potentially play devil's advocate to ensure a healthy debate is had, but ultimately a decision like this, which affects our club directly, should be taken by the FANS.

So I'd like Fenty to tell us just exactly how he's consulting with us, and once he's done that I'd like him to share with us what he plans to do or say on behalf of GTFC when he returns a report, or votes, or whatever.

That's how it should work and I'm absolutely copulated off that I even have to write this because it's like page 1 of the democracy book.

It's not really a democratic institution, though, GTFC is a limited company. The shareholders vote the board once a year, and the board conduct themselves as they see fit to run the company during that year before reporting to shareholders again. In our case, it happens that one of the board is the largest shareholder, which makes it more like a dictatorship.But even if he wasn't the board can still do what they want within that timeframe.

I think Harvey's opening gambit to club owners on this one will need to be at least two weeks in the Caribbean, needs to be much more than a pissup in Portugal.

Let's face it, Mr Fenty and Mr Mullen will do what they want without so much as a doff of their cap to the fans.

From the Telegraph in case those that hate adverts.

GRIMSBY Town director John Fenty has assured fans that the club will not vote for or against any plans to radically shake-up the league structure until he has all the facts in front of him.

Every league club has been invited to respond to a series of proposals that, if implemented, will change the face of football in this country.

A winter break, regionalising the bottom two divisions and playing FA Cup ties in midweek are three of the main ideas put forward by the newly-branded English Football League (EFL).

Mr Fenty told the Telegraph: "The club is not in full view of all the facts and it would be wrong to jump the gun to be for or against before proposals are fully understood.

"In consultation with the EFL, our club has consolidated a response with our concerns which we will be submitting.

"The club asks our fans to be patient and, rest assured, it only takes seven clubs out of 72 to be against the final proposals – then they would be defeated.

"It is fully understood there are strong views, particularly against any Premier League intervention into our competition. Most, but not all clubs, share this same view."

Mr Fenty added that the plans had to "overwhelmingly beneficial" to clubs for them to get passed and urged fans not to panic.

Despite the call for calm, some supporters are suspicious of the EFL's proposals.

Many have been vocal in their disapproval of the revamped EFL Trophy, which the Mariners are competing in this season.

The contest involves Premier League academy sides, and features a bizarre format in which drawn group stage games are decided on penalties, with the winner gaining an extra point.

There is a feeling in some quarters that the introduction of Premier League B teams into the Football League is not too far away – but such a move would not happen unless 90 per cent of clubs vote in favour.

Meanwhile, the Mariners Trust said its representative on the board has made the group's objections to the proposals clear.

They too are awaiting more information on the plans.

Too me, there is nothing much wrong with the EFL. If I where to change things or respond to mooted changes without knowing what has been suggested to the clubs this is what I'd consider....

Extra teams in the EFL? Effectivly upgrade the National League. Bit of a ball ache after working so hard to gain promotion! Equalize promotion and relegation from League 2 so its 3 up and 3 down instead of the current 4 up 2 down. Regionalization? Not fussed/can be perswaded either way.

Midweek FA Cup rounds. Loses more of it's magic. Shove League matches to midweek. FA Cup in midweek makes it similar to League Cup, so in my view if it happens they may as well just get rid of League Cup,

Winter break? Not totally against it. If its planned for over Xmas, Boxing Day and New Years Day matches are a must, must be organized, just play those 2 matches and nothing else. Mid Jan 2 week break, fine. Just total ban all matches. None of these prem clubs going to warm places for money spinning friendly matches on their break.

B Teams or under 21/23 teams are a total no no. Limit squad sizes from Prem teams to a named 25 squad that their able to change 1 or 2 times a season. (do they already do that/have something similar?) Stop prem teams hoarding all the young talent and not ending up progressing them. Say at least 50% under 23/21/18's/reserves Must be available to loan out to EFL teams at no cost to EFL. Prem teams cannot refuse...

Quoted from RichMariner

This.

Apart from the obvious joke that he creates by saying we should 'trust' him, why is it up to 'him' to decide?

It's not.

It's up to us - the fans - and Fenty is merely our mouthpiece.

He should add information where possible, or bring in his business sense to potentially play devil's advocate to ensure a healthy debate is had, but ultimately a decision like this, which affects our club directly, should be taken by the FANS.

So I'd like Fenty to tell us just exactly how he's consulting with us, and once he's done that I'd like him to share with us what he plans to do or say on behalf of GTFC when he returns a report, or votes, or whatever.

That's how it should work and I'm absolutely copulated off that I even have to write this because it's like page 1 of the democracy book.

Whilst I agree with your sentiment the question I would add is " How can the fans be united on an issue like this " ? The fans are represented on the Board by the trust and they obviously have expressed their views on this. Unfortunately they are the only local organisation that represents the fans. For " the fans " to have any sway then they must have some kind of organisation that represents them otherwise all you have is loads of voices with no clear message or united opinion.
As much as it is annoying to most fans the fact remains that the EFL is run by representatives from all FL clubs and not by fans organisations. In the unlikely event of any league restructuring leading to the inclusion of so called " B teams " what action can the fans opposed to this take ? You can boycott league games but all that will hurt is the finances of the club you support and some are in such a financial state that you could see your team in administration and all that entails. I can well imagine that their are teams in the non-league sector that would willing exchange places with threatened league teams just for the opportunity to be in the league regardless of the inclusion of B teams.
Don't get me wrong, I am against B teams in the Football League structure but these changes have a nasty habit ( and history eg the Premiersh*t ) of being implemented regardless of what the ordinary fan wants. GTFC could decide not to support any changes but there is the distinct possibility that some teams ( especially those owned by foreigners with no consideration for the leagues history and it's fans) who might think it a good idea. Within the league structure that could amount to a sizeable number , certainly the possibility of more than the 10% required to debate it. If that is the case then who knows what the outcome might be.

With Mr Fenty's track record I would certainly not be trusting of his decision making.

He has proved very recently that the only thing that concerns him is £ notes. If the pay off is sufficient I can see JSF raising his arm to say 'aye'.

It will be dressed up and sold to fans but Shaun Harvey is only interested in the financial side of things, history or morals don't matter, nor do fans. He knows best and we are expected to follow.

I fear for the game as we know it I really do

I suppose JF's statement is a big improvement on the Portugal Farago. But, as others have said, I'd feel more confident if he committed to consult the fans via the Trust.

Any proposals coming from Harvey though, is to be mistrusted IMO. Greeks bearing gifts.

You can pretty much guarantee the decision makers at the club will read any threads on the subject here so at least they will be aware of your views on the subject, even if they don't act on them. Even if they consult the Trust how many people would actually have an input into the Trust's "official" response? The best possible option is to get all the facts in the open and have an open discussion so at least everyone has a chance to contribute in a place where it can be seen.

Quoted from GrimRob

You can pretty much guarantee the decision makers at the club will read any threads on the subject here so at least they will be aware of your views on the subject, even if they don't act on them. Even if they consult the Trust how many people would actually have an input into the Trust's "official" response? The best possible option is to get all the facts in the open and have an open discussion so at least everyone has a chance to contribute in a place where it can be seen.

We already know Rob that JF considers the views on here, on any subject, to be that of the 'vocal minority'

Quoted from Cloudy

We already know Rob that JF considers the views on here, on any subject, to be that of the 'vocal minority'

That's probably because we are, there are some 50 odd posters on here who are very vocal and moan about anything the club do or say.
that against 5k ish regular home supporters and god knows how many exiles, this makes the fishy few a minority.

The Trust is on the board to give the fans prospective not Fenty or any other director so its them you should be having a dig at for not communicating with the fans surely.

Quoted from cleethorpes_mariner

That's probably because we are, there are some 50 odd posters on here who are very vocal and moan about anything the club do or say.
that against 5k ish regular home supporters and god knows how many exiles, this makes the fishy few a minority.

The Trust is on the board to give the fans prospective not Fenty or any other director so its them you should be having a dig at for not communicating with the fans surely.

Just like JF did with his board colleagues on the FL Travesty re-vamp.

Quoted from GrimRob

You can pretty much guarantee the decision makers at the club will read any threads on the subject here so at least they will be aware of your views on the subject, even if they don't act on them. Even if they consult the Trust how many people would actually have an input into the Trust's "official" response? The best possible option is to get all the facts in the open and have an open discussion so at least everyone has a chance to contribute in a place where it can be seen.

The best option, as I've suggested on numerous occasions in the past, would be for the club to become owned by the fans. It's par for the course in the likes of the Bundesliga, other European giants like Barcelona and Real Madrid are owned by their fans as well. Why is it so difficult for clubs like ours and other Football League sides to understand the benefits of becoming such an institution, and to stop constantly worrying what the next embarrassing proclamation coming from the boardroom might be?

We've shown via Operation Promotion that their is a genuine desire by the fans to influence the club, so why not go the extra mile and make it the raison d'etre behind the club?

Quoted from jock dock tower

The best option, as I've suggested on numerous occasions in the past, would be for the club to become owned by the fans. It's par for the course in the likes of the Bundesliga, other European giants like Barcelona and Real Madrid are owned by their fans as well. Why is it so difficult for clubs like ours and other Football League sides to understand the benefits of becoming such an institution, and to stop constantly worrying what the next embarrassing proclamation coming from the boardroom might be?

We've shown via Operation Promotion that their is a genuine desire by the fans to influence the club, so why not go the extra mile and make it the raison d'etre behind the club?

There's a big reason why not. Look at the balance sheet.

Quoted from cleethorpes_mariner

That's probably because we are, there are some 50 odd posters on here who are very vocal and moan about anything the club do or say.
that against 5k ish regular home supporters and god knows how many exiles, this makes the fishy few a minority.

The Trust is on the board to give the fans prospective not Fenty or any other director so its them you should be having a dig at for not communicating with the fans surely.

Sorry but you are as biased as they come and we both know why!

Being in JF's circle doesn't mean you have to support him on everything, grow a pair, question and challenge, but we both know if you did you would no longer be in the clique!!

Your response sums up JF in that they shouldn't take any notice of fans, that is the job of the Trust, just pathetic but equally very worrying.

Is Twitter or any social media not representative of fans views? If GTFC and football in general stopped just listening to the inner circle the game would be in a far far stronger position.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

There's a big reason why not. Look at the balance sheet.

Maybe it would be in the mess it's in now.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Maybe it would be in the mess it's in now.

Really important to bear in mind there are a LOT of people who are cracking keyboard warriors but wouldn't step up and act when/if the club became fan run. And as someone who does volunteer and give up a lot of my free time (for free) for the Trust to benefit the club, there aren't hundreds more willing to do the same. That isn't aimed at either you KR or Cloudy, just a general comment. Lots of people talk a great game, but won't/can't match it with action.

Speaking personally (not the view of the Trust for the eagle eyes on here) I'd welcome the views of fans being taken more seriously to avoid a repeat of Portugal and so the decision-makers are much more aware of the strength of feeling when important decisions are taken in the future.

Plenty of people can have their say direct to the club's board at the fan's forum later this month both in person and my sending in questions which can be read out.

Quoted from bax

Really important to bear in mind there are a LOT of people who are cracking keyboard warriors but wouldn't step up and act when/if the club became fan run. And as someone who does volunteer and give up a lot of my free time (for free) for the Trust to benefit the club, there aren't hundreds more willing to do the same. That isn't aimed at either you KR or Cloudy, just a general comment. Lots of people talk a great game, but won't/can't match it with action.

Speaking personally (not the view of the Trust for the eagle eyes on here) I'd welcome the views of fans being taken more seriously to avoid a repeat of Portugal and so the decision-makers are much more aware of the strength of feeling when important decisions are taken in the future.

Plenty of people can have their say direct to the club's board at the fan's forum later this month both in person and my sending in questions which can be read out.

And the point is what in the context of some people wishing the club was owned by the Trust?

There's plenty of people with a view on what government policy should be, but you can't be saying they need to shut up unless they're willing to get involved in politics.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

And the point is what in the context of some people wishing the club was owned by the Trust?

There's plenty of people with a view on what government policy should be, but you can't be saying they need to shut up unless they're willing to get involved in politics.

Well the two are very, very different things. Not even close to being the same! No one has told anyone to shut up. Too much fantasy world dreaming from too many Town fans at times.

Is the fishy really just a vocal minority though? Surely a representative sample of any group will be pretty much the same when expanded to a majority vote among a bigger sample size. Mori polls accurately predict election results based on a small sample size of vote. There will be just as broad a range of opinions on the fishy as there will be among fans that don't use social media. None of the people i attend BP with are for these proposals and none of them use the fishy. We are not just a bunch of web warriors.

Quoted from bax

Well the two are very, very different things. Not even close to being the same! No one has told anyone to shut up. Too much fantasy world dreaming from too many Town fans at times.

The football club owes too much money to become a viable fans-run proposition anyway.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

The football club owes too much money to one man to become a viable fans-run proposition anyway.

My opinion only....

Quoted from FishOutOfWater

My opinion only....

A much debated point, means the future is in his hands.

Quoted from Cloudy

Sorry but you are as biased as they come and we both know why!

Being in JF's circle doesn't mean you have to support him on everything, grow a pair, question and challenge, but we both know if you did you would no longer be in the clique!!

Your response sums up JF in that they shouldn't take any notice of fans, that is the job of the Trust, just pathetic but equally very worrying.

Is Twitter or any social media not representative of fans views? If GTFC and football in general stopped just listening to the inner circle the game would be in a far far stronger position.

My response does not sum up JF as you say I was just pointing out 50 vocal posters on here does not necessarily represent the majority of fans in general.
I don't agree with everything the club, board or JF does but the difference is I tell him to his face and not hide behind a pseudonym and a keyboard.

A gap in the Premier League this weekend for the international break meant Bournemouth and West Brom could play friendlies with football giants AC Milan and Delhi Dynamoes (an IPL B team?) today. No wonder they want a winter break with all these - needless - extra fixtures.

Quoted from cleethorpes_mariner

My response does not sum up JF as you say I was just pointing out 50 vocal posters on here does not necessarily represent the majority of fans in general.
I don't agree with everything the club, board or JF does but the difference is I tell him to his face and not hide behind a pseudonym and a keyboard.

It isn't 50 vocal posters on here though is it? If you and JF think it is, and his comments to Ginny suggests he believes it, then you all and he are further out of touch than I first thought.

Lots of fans are very frustrated at the way the club rolled over for the Under 21/23s inclusion in the EFL Trophy, the fact the Trust weren't even aware the meeting was taking place let alone asked for a view, the fact JF stated publically that B teams inclusion in the FL could be a positive thing and above all the club cannot see anything wrong with this.

BTW. JF knows who I am

Quoted from Cloudy

It isn't 50 vocal posters on here though is it? If you and JF think it is, and his comments to Ginny suggests he believes it, then you all and he are further out of touch than I first thought.

Lots of fans are very frustrated at the way the club rolled over for the Under 21/23s inclusion in the EFL Trophy, the fact the Trust weren't even aware the meeting was taking place let alone asked for a view, the fact JF stated publically that B teams inclusion in the FL could be a positive thing and above all the club cannot see anything wrong with this.

BTW. JF knows who I am

Non vocal and agree with Cloudy.

Quoted from Cloudy

It isn't 50 vocal posters on here though is it? If you and JF think it is, and his comments to Ginny suggests he believes it, then you all and he are further out of touch than I first thought.

Lots of fans are very frustrated at the way the club rolled over for the Under 21/23s inclusion in the EFL Trophy, the fact the Trust weren't even aware the meeting was taking place let alone asked for a view, the fact JF stated publically that B teams inclusion in the FL could be a positive thing and above all the club cannot see anything wrong with this.

BTW. JF knows who I am

I get it that allot of fans are unhappy with the EFL decision and I don't agree with the new format either. As far as what JF thinks you will have to ask him,
I am under the impression the Trust did know about the proposal before the meeting again this is something the Trust and JF will have to answer themselves.
I thought we where talking about the FL restructure but you seem to have turned it in to an EFL debate.

Quoted from cleethorpes_mariner

I get it that allot of fans are unhappy with the EFL decision and I don't agree with the new format either. As far as what JF thinks you will have to ask him, no need to ask, we all know he voted in favour of it
I am under the impression the Trust did know the proposal before the meeting again this is something the Trust and JF will have to answer themselves. They have, they didn't know
I thought we where talking about the FL restructure but you seem to have turned it in to an EFL debate No, it is about the future of the Football League and the smaller clubs, that involves both the restructure and EFL Trophy and anything else that revolves around GTFC and the future of football in this country. .

Quoted from bax

Well the two are very, very different things. Not even close to being the same! No one has told anyone to shut up. Too much fantasy world dreaming from too many Town fans at times.

What was the point you were making though Bax?

And what fantasy world dreaming is going on?

At the end of the day whoever runs and owns the club (whether an individual, group of fans, or the Trust) someone has to put their hand up at the meeting. All we normal mortals can do is try and influence that person or group of people. If there are a couple of hundred on here and a few more on the likes of Twitter whose comments might fall under the gaze of the decision makers, then that's still more input than 4500 who don't say anything. If The Trust were to make the decision, how do they find out what people think? Most fans don't belong to the Trust, and even the ones who do, are in the main not involved in it in any way. However, you run and organise things very few people will actually have a direct input into the decision.

The other good thing about making your comments on somewhere like this Fishy or Twitter is that it might influence the other 71 sets of decision makers, as it might be seen and enter the collective thoughts of other people.