Despite being 25 points ahead of them, our home form (37 points from 22 games) is identical to Lincoln City. Why?

To defensive at home and that leads to a lack of atmosphere that the away teams latch onto.

Go hell for leather at home, and teams would fear coming here. As it is they don't, they walk all over the park and do what they want, which invariably means they take either 3 points or 1 point home most of the time.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Despite being 25 points ahead of them, our home form (37 points from 22 games) is identical to Lincoln City. Why?

Nice to see you back....

Because we are 25 points ahead of them our away form is 25 points better than theirs.

This fact comes to you by courtesy of #statingthebleedingobvious

I guess what I'm trying to say is whilst our home form is more than a tad disappointing and personally I much prefer away games we still have the points on the board. It is only relevant in the context of how much home gates may well have been affected by the poor home form. Not too sure there is much evidence of that

Quoted from barralad

Nice to see you back....

Because we are 25 points ahead of them our away form is 25 points better than theirs.

This fact comes to you by courtesy of #statingthebleedingobvious

I guess what I'm trying to say is whilst our home form is more than a tad disappointing and personally I much prefer away games we still have the points on the board. It is only relevant in the context of how much home gates may well have been affected by the poor home form. Not too sure there is much evidence of that

Thanks for that. Been on holiday, glad you missed me.

I did ask why, not state the bleeding obvious!

The reason we are better away is because teams attack us and we play better against teams that do that,

At home a lot of teams come for a point or if they do score first they try and hang on to the 3 points,

Most of the time they have managed that because we do not know how to break them down,

We do not have wingers that can beat a man and put the ball on the head or feet of a goal scorer,

Even if we did have those wingers we do not have a goal scorer who can put those chances away.

I hope we win the away leg in the play offs then the team will have to attack us at Blundell Park,

If we lose the away leg then I can not see us getting to Wembley,

However if we do manage to get to Wembley it will be 50/50 whoever we play,

As long as they do not score first and shut up shop.

Of course, it hasn't helped that we have conceded a goal from practically the opposition's first chance in plenty of home games this season! We're not great at breaking teams down when they sit back so falling behind at home in this manner has really cost us. Frustrating that we've conceded lots of goals at BP without the opposition having to work particularly hard for them at all.

Quoted from Maringer

Of course, it hasn't helped that we have conceded a goal from practically the opposition's first chance in plenty of home games this season! We're not great at breaking teams down when they sit back so falling behind at home in this manner has really cost us. Frustrating that we've conceded lots of goals at BP without the opposition having to work particularly hard for them at all.

and many of them from distance!

I think the strikers have taken a lot of stick this season when really it's the lack of support from midfield that has cost us , we seem so slow to break and get a final ball into the box

Quoted from BIGChris

and many of them from distance!

Keeper?

Mostly from distance and all of those from a very similar spot.

Quoted from grimps

I think the strikers have taken a lot of stick this season when really it's the lack of support from midfield that has cost us , we seem so slow to break and get a final ball into the box

Here we go again....it's the players! I thought I read that we had the best squad in the conference on here in the last week or so, and certainly the best we've had since we were relegated. Surely not?! Have we changed our minds? How fickle are we and how deceitful are they!

There was a thread on here the other day that basically proposed that Brown and Clay were L2 standard and should be retained if we are promoted, and that Disley should get another season. Paddy, of course, should be dispatched (too attack minded). Is our midfield not 'the best in the division' then? Surely it can't be their fault?
It must be the strikers? This natural goalscorer Palmer that was lauded on here 3 weeks ago as being the goalscoring answer to our prayers. Perhaps it's the keeper? Mckeown often seems to concede shots from distance or from the opposition's first shot.

Come on, stop kidding yourselves.

Quoted from chaos33

Here we go again....it's the players! I thought I read that we had the best squad in the conference on here in the last week or so, and certainly the best we've had since we were relegated. Surely not?! Have we changed our minds? How fickle are we and how deceitful are they!

There was a thread on here the other day that basically proposed that Brown and Clay were L2 standards and should be retained if we are promoted, and that Disley should get another season. Paddy, of course, should be dispatched (too attack minded). Is our midfield not 'the best in the division' then? Surely it can't be their fault?
It must be the strikers? This natural goalscorer Palmer that was lauded on here 3 weeks ago as being the goalscoring answer to our prayers. Perhaps it's the keeper. Mckeown often seems to concede shots from distance or from the opposition's first shot.

Come on, stop kidding yourselves.

Will you please stop writing very good posts chaos.....it won't be tolerated because the truth hurts  :)

Quoted from Garth

Keeper?

Well certainly plays a part, has great reactions but as I said last week he regularly gets beat from outside the box which is a concern and maybe explains why he is still at this level.

Regarding home form, I think the heart seems to have drained out of BP and maybe too many of us older ones go out of habit rather than desire. Think we are resigned to most games lacking quality, poor refereeing and a lack of entertaining football. Thus we have over the years become increasingly quiet and never shown more than last week when Osmond was open and I never heard any noise from town fans allowed in.

Agree with Pete that we have wingers who, apart from Rodman occasionally last year, have never been keen to try and beat their full back and if they do get space the quality of crosses is pretty dire and this is exemplified bu our inability to deliver decent crosses from corners and free kicks. The final element for me is that for years our midfield has lacked creativity nor is it an area where we dominate the opposition. Thought Brown may have been the answer but unfortunately not the case.

Hurst has us sorted defensively but the attacking side has been his downfall and the resulting lack of entertainment is reflected in how quickly our floating fans disappear and we are back to the hard core 3000 plus.

The play offs may turn out differently but somehow I think a lot of us just cannot see it and feel our stay in this league will be much longer than any of us ever believed.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Despite being 25 points ahead of them, our home form (37 points from 22 games) is identical to Lincoln City. Why?

Haven't you heard? Its our fault we the fans are the reason the team is shite at home. Nothing to do with the fact the players choke and bottle it in front of a crowd of more than 1500 people, this is what you get with a manager used to the conference north and players that are only fit for reserve team football anywhere decent. But hey I'm sure the usaul goons on here will blame the the fans for the negative defensive tactics of the great one whom must not be criticised.

Quoted from fishheadphil

Haven't you heard? Its our fault we the fans are the reason the team is shite at home. Nothing to do with the fact the players choke and bottle it in front of a crowd of more than 1500 people, this is what you get with a manager used to the conference north and players that are only fit for reserve team football anywhere decent. But hey I'm sure the usaul goons on here will blame the the fans for the negative defensive tactics of the great one whom must not be criticised.

Thanks! Couldn't have been more eloquently put!  ;)

Quoted from fishheadphil

Haven't you heard? Its our fault we the fans are the reason the team is shite at home. Nothing to do with the fact the players choke and bottle it in front of a crowd of more than 1500 people, this is what you get with a manager used to the conference north and players that are only fit for reserve team football anywhere decent. But hey I'm sure the usaul goons on here will blame the the fans for the negative defensive tactics of the great one whom must not be criticised.

I don't think I've ever read such a crock of shite on here and that is saying something. They're conference players, they're not perfect but they're usually better than average (to understate it a bit) for this league, hence why we will finish third. Either they're not good enough and we've got a fantastic manager who gets more out of team than the sum of it's part or they are good enough, either way you're wrong on at least one account. What do you mean by anywhere "decent"? A L1 team? A championship team? Of course they'd only make the reserves there, that's why they're playing in non league football. How many players in this league would regularly start "anywhere decent"? A handful at best.

As for the manager being used to the conference north, I'd say he's done pretty well to finish 4th, 4th and 3rd in the last three seasons if conference north is the full extent of his ability and ambition. He is a decent manager for this level. He has his faults and unfortunately his faults manifest at home in front of the majority of our supporters. Were it the other way round and we were fantastic at home and a bit shite away, I doubt people would be so bothered about it. That isn't an excuse, it's an opinion as either way our home form is unacceptable.

However, we've just come off the back of a terrific run which gave us a shot at the title and how many people on here would have predicted that at the start of the February. Credit must go to both the players and the manager for that, and the fans played their part as well. We've still got a shot at the play offs and I doubt any of the teams below us are relishing playing us in the semi-final. If we don't go up then perhaps it is time to have a new manager as he's had quite a while now but until we know how this season concludes there is no point being so negative and talking utter crap (in some instances). Yes, the result and particularly the performance yesterday was very poor but provided it does not happen again this season then it is just a small blip in the final months of this season. You'd be forgiven for thinking we'd played like that for every game this year the way some are going on about it on here. Let's get behind the team, the season isn't over.

Quoted from mariner91

I don't think I've ever read such a crock of shite on here and that is saying something. They're conference players, they're not perfect but they're usually better than average (to understate it a bit) for this league, hence why we will finish third. Either they're not good enough and we've got a fantastic manager who gets more out of team than the sum of it's part or they are good enough, either way you're wrong on at least one account. What do you mean by anywhere "decent"? A L1 team? A championship team? Of course they'd only make the reserves there, that's why they're playing in non league football. How many players in this league would regularly start "anywhere decent"? A handful at best.

As for the manager being used to the conference north, I'd say he's done pretty well to finish 4th, 4th and 3rd in the last three seasons if conference north is the full extent of his ability and ambition. He is a decent manager for this level. He has his faults and unfortunately his faults manifest at home in front of the majority of our supporters. Were it the other way round and we were fantastic at home and a bit shite away, I doubt people would be so bothered about it. That isn't an excuse, it's an opinion as either way our home form is unacceptable.

However, we've just come off the back of a terrific run which gave us a shot at the title and how many people on here would have predicted that at the start of the February. Credit must go to both the players and the manager for that, and the fans played their part as well. We've still got a shot at the play offs and I doubt any of the teams below us are relishing playing us in the semi-final. If we don't go up then perhaps it is time to have a new manager as he's had quite a while now but until we know how this season concludes there is no point being so negative and talking utter crap (in some instances). Yes, the result and particularly the performance yesterday was very poor but provided it does not happen again this season then it is just a small blip in the final months of this season. You'd be forgiven for thinking we'd played like that for every game this year the way some are going on about it on here. Let's get behind the team, the season isn't over.

Whilst you keep believing he's the right man to take the club back where it should be the longer you will be watching non league football, come back and speak to me in a few weeks time when the fixture list for the conference comes out and our name is still on it, I hope to hell I'm wrong and we go up nothing would be better for the club but you just don't get it do you? The managers tactics are too negative and defensive, he would rather drawxa game than take a few risks and win more games, if you are a winner at anything in life you are also a risk taker.

Quoted from fishheadphil

Whilst you keep believing he's the right man to take the club back where it should be the longer you will be watching non league football, come back and speak to me in a few weeks time when the fixture list for the conference comes out and our name is still on it, I hope to hell I'm wrong and we go up nothing would be better for the club but you just don't get it do you? The managers tactics are too negative and defensive, he would rather drawxa game than take a few risks and win more games, if you are a winner at anything in life you are also a risk taker.

You clearly don't read posts. I didn't say I think he's the right man, I said he still has a chance of doing this season which he does. And if he doesn't this season then perhaps it's time for a change.

Quoted from fishheadphil

Whilst you keep believing he's the right man to take the club back where it should be the longer you will be watching non league football, come back and speak to me in a few weeks time when the fixture list for the conference comes out and our name is still on it, I hope to hell I'm wrong and we go up nothing would be better for the club but you just don't get it do you? The managers tactics are too negative and defensive, he would rather drawxa game than take a few risks and win more games, if you are a winner at anything in life you are also a risk taker.

Unfortunately mourinho proves you wrong! Lol. I agree he is a percentage manager, but it gets results most of the time and as I've said before he's got his future to think about. He would probably claim with some justification that the team has progressed again this year and that. We are getting there. I think he's probably correct and that there is a case that the grass is not necessarily greener on the other side. However I can understand people's frustration. How long has he been doing this job and he is still moaning about teams setting up defensively. You might think that after 3 years of seeing this he might have devised a plan to counteract this ploy. But maybe I'm expecting too much.....

Quoted from forza ivano

How long has he been doing this job and he is still moaning about teams setting up defensively. You might think that after 3 years of seeing this he might have devised a plan to counteract this ploy. But maybe I'm expecting too much.....

So he stumbles across a formation that stuffs Gateshead away, Alfreton at home and then looked impressive at Aldershot (till LJL got sent off) and then never uses it again.

I know nobody, that I am aware of, has said Wrexham parked the bus but they certainly didn't. When they attacked they got plenty of men forward and worked hard to get behind the ball and to press us when they didn't.

Maybe we could sabotage the pitch at BP so we can play both legs away. Kingfield or Kingsmeadow would be good for the "home" legs  ;)

Quoted from grimsby pete

The reason we are better away is because teams attack us and we play better against teams that do that,

At home a lot of teams come for a point or if they do score first they try and hang on to the 3 points,

Most of the time they have managed that because we do not know how to break them down,

We do not have wingers that can beat a man and put the ball on the head or feet of a goal scorer,

Even if we did have those wingers we do not have a goal scorer who can put those chances away.

I hope we win the away leg in the play offs then the team will have to attack us at Blundell Park,

If we lose the away leg then I can not see us getting to Wembley,

However if we do manage to get to Wembley it will be 50/50 whoever we play,

As long as they do not score first and shut up shop.

Do these teams not try to park the bus at Barnet and Bristol then?

Quoted from oldun

Do these teams not try to park the bus at Barnet and Bristol then?

;D  :-/

Quoted from BIGChris

I know nobody, that I am aware of, has said Wrexham parked the bus but they certainly didn't. When they attacked they got plenty of men forward and worked hard to get behind the ball and to press us when they didn't.

He was moaning that our home record was poor because teams repeatedly parked the bus. Sorry but teams from barca, psg, Chelsea, Sheffield u mk Dons, Luton face the same problem. And they seem to find a way round it,yet he seems no further on after three years as to solving the problem

Quoted from forza ivano

He was moaning that our home record was poor because teams repeatedly parked the bus. Sorry but teams from barca, psg, Chelsea, Sheffield u mk Dons, Luton face the same problem. And they seem to find a way round it,yet he seems no further on after three years as to solving the problem

Sign better strikers. There you go, easy wasn't it.

Quoted from oldun

Do these teams not try to park the bus at Barnet and Bristol then?

Yes but those teams are better than breaking them down than we are,

Look at their home form.

They are not as good as us away though,

Maybe we should play all our games away.

Should we ground share with the scunts ? ;D

Quoted from grimsby pete

Yes but those teams are better than breaking them down than we are,

Look at their home form.

They are not as good as us away though,

Maybe we should play all our games away.

Should we ground share with the scunts ? ;D

Clearly they are better at breaking them down. The question is, how do they do that? With the exception of Akinde it is not about strikers, it is more about the midfield in my view and the pace of attacks. It takes us far too long to get the ball into the danger area and we struggle to turn teams round so it is easy for them to defend as the ball is always in front of them.

Hearn usually found ways to score in his good season.

At home, it is about midfielders creating more chances and the strikers then taking them. (And/or the midfielders scoring more goals).

A combination of a pacey winger, who can put a cross in. MacKreth. A creative midfielder, someone who can pick a pass. We don't have one of those. A natural born goal scorer. We don't have one of those. Akinde and Lenny upfront would cause teams all sorts of problems. Particularly if we have Mackreth and that illusive midfielder, who can create something out of nothing. Any ideas?

The stats say we have had more shots than any other side, so clearly we are getting in the right positions. I just think our strikers should be better, it's that simple. Their shots to goal ratio isn't as good as the other contenders and we also have no-one at the club who can take consistently good set pieces. I'm sure we also lead the league in the amount of corners won but very rarely does anything come of them.

Yes a decent striker signed last summer would have helped enormously but, a BIG but, even a Hearn would struggle to find too many chances with the midfield Town have. Very rarely the centre of midfield has come together and that's when there have been good team performances like Barnet. Most often centre midfield has been short of ideas, failed to demand the ball from defenders and so failed to make things happen. It doesn't help that the wingers tend to position themselves as auxiliary full backs first and attackers second but there is still not enough creativity in the centre of the park. It is fair to point out that Disley has scored important goals. My answer to that would be that a decent midfield and a good striker would have made his goals a bonus not an essential.

Centre midfield is also one reason why McKeown has been beaten from distance several times. Look at the highlights videos and anyone can see how much space the opposition are given to run at the back four and how slow centre midfield is at getting out of the area when we defend corners. In the games where they have been quick to close down we have looked a decent side but it does not happen often enough.

I'm not picking on individuals because it applies to all the players who have been signed and used there. I don't know what the manager tells them but to me there is no consistent  production line operating in midfield to use the ball when we have it and to block the ball when we don't. His preference to use Parslow in that position as sub even when midfielders were fit and on the bench maybe says something about what the manager wants from his midfield. Wherever we are next season this weakness has to be dealt with by at least two quality signings.

Quoted from ginnywings

I'm sure we also lead the league in the amount of corners won but very rarely does anything come of them.

That's not true, I remember Kidderminster scoring from one ;)

I don't think the midfield is too much to blame if we are creating more opportunities than any other team. That tells me that our strikers just don't convert enough chances and the stats bear that out. Our main striker has about a dozen goals from open play. It simply isn't enough.

Quoted from ginnywings

I don't think the midfield is too much to blame if we are creating more opportunities than any other team. That tells me that our strikers just don't convert enough chances and the stats bear that out. Our main striker has about a dozen goals from open play. It simply isn't enough.

Chances vary though. You can have a relatively easy chance or a half chance, the stats don't show that. Our strikers might be getting lots of half chances and not scoring as opposed to others who may get less but they're easier.

The set pieces and corners ARE a real concern to me and should be to Hurst I have become used to the fact a corner means very little to us ?? Why should this be don't they practice any routines?

I also think we give player's to much time outside the box to measure up a shot invariably this results in Macca left struggling to deal with it.

I don't like pointing fingers but if a striker needs half a dozen chances before he even gets a effort on goal........................

Say no more.  

Quoted from ginnywings

I don't think the midfield is too much to blame if we are creating more opportunities than any other team. That tells me that our strikers just don't convert enough chances and the stats bear that out. Our main striker has about a dozen goals from open play. It simply isn't enough.

I definitely go along with you about the striker business but midfield is where the pace, the creativity and the passion of the game happen. That's what people have been saying is so lacking especially in home games.

I'm always amazed that we don't have a player standing on the edge of the 'D' whenever we are defending corners. Just have a man sitting there and, if it is half-cleared out the middle (as it often is), there's surely a good chance the ball can be further cleared or at the very least any shot from the centre blocked?

As for attacking corners, our delivery tends to be average at very best and too often we fail to beat the first man. Should certainly do a bit better in this respect.

The striker situation was known by hurst in pre season but failed to strike and get one in, so put all his eggs in one basket with LJL and I would say it's not back fired on him but it's not worked out as he might have hoped.

As Ginny said in his post, 12 goals from open play is not good enough for our main striker that's played nearly every minute of every game .

It just makes you wonder what could've been had we had a better main forward that can convert some of the chances that's been created again this season. It's got to be said that we have missed some sitters again this year which has cost us a fair few points again too

Bristol Rovers' main striker's got 12 goals in open play this season (although this too, could not be enough)

Quoted from Abdul19

Bristol Rovers' main striker's got 12 goals in open play this season (although this too, could not be enough)

Bet he hasn't missed any chances though. Other teams don't miss chances nor do they draw when they should have won etc etc.

Quoted from Abdul19

Bristol Rovers' main striker's got 12 goals in open play this season (although this too, could not be enough)

They've only lost 5 games all season though, so they obviously compensate in other areas, which is why they lead us by 5 points.

They took 52 points from their home games (we acquired 37), whilst gaining only 6 fewer than us away.

Quoted from ginnywings

They've only lost 5 games all season though, so they obviously compensate in other areas, which is why they lead us by 5 points.

Yes that's what I was getting at.

Quoted from chaos33

They took 52 points from their home games (we acquired 37), whilst gaining only 6 fewer than us away.

Wouldn't that put them 9 points clear of us? :o

Quoted from chaos33

They took 52 points from their home games (we acquired 37), whilst gaining only 6 fewer than us away.

That would put them 9 ahead of us so that isn't correct.

Our home form has been our " Achilles Heel " this season. We started the season with 3 draws , 6 points dropped , so we were already playing catch-up on the top spot. Those 6 points alone would have made a world of difference to our position now. Barnet have lost the same number of games as us , 10 , which is a lot for a team that could finish Champions. Unfortunately most of our losses have been at home and that is what has really hurt us in the final reckoning. Even if 3 of those losses could have been converted to draws then things would have looked a lot better. What is really hard to swallow is that some of those home losses were against teams that we should have beaten.

Quoted from mariner91

That would put them 9 ahead of us so that isn't correct.

Apologies, 10 points fewer than us on the road.