Awful, absolutely awful

UTM

Why?

The selected team was what I guess the majority would have gone with? Once Robertson went off Hursts sub was positive, replacing him with a winger but that must have been close to the worst performance of the season!

The players must take full responsibility for that horror show. Not looked at the stats but can only recall one limp effort on goal and very few off target too.

How Pearson got mom I don't know as that was one of the shakiest performances I have seen from him. Magnay gave the ball away for fun with short or aimless distribution. Brown? Ran around but he must be so easy to play against provided the oppo have some ability. He charges towards players making it so easy to pass around him. Closing down isn't about getting within a foot or so!
Arnold must be diseased. Time and time again players were facing him, he was in acres and they either hook it aimlessly forward or turn back into an opponent.
Palmer hardly broke sweat, the Shop tried, battled but frankly as a team we caused a makeshift side little or no problem

This was against a team who were torn a new one by Nth Ferriby a couple of weeks ago!
I hope Hurst still has them locked in the dressing room, telling them ALL that the performance was totally unacceptable!

A complete non performance .

Pearson was my mom today ! Can't think of anyone else who had even a half decent game .

Not a fan of Nathan Arnold at all TBH. Poor first touch and mostly no real vision. Not what we need if god forbid we have to go again in this league next year.

Appalling, played like we had accepted relegation rather than still having a slight chance of automatic promotion. I'm not particularly anti Hurst, but will be interested in how he explains this one.

I think Arnold generally has the best first touch than anyone in our squad!

Quoted from highcliff mariner

Pearson was my mom today ! Can't think of anyone else who had even a half decent game .

We watched different games! His worst game in a town top IMO, kept getting turned constantly.

Quoted from highcliff mariner

A complete non performance .

My words exactly when I got home!!

The fear now is the last two games are going to be irrelevant and all this good work and momentum with players and fans could be lost going into the playoffs that is my fear. Somehow Hurst as got to pick the tempo up again be interesting to see how everybody reacts.

Normally wouldn't be fussed as an undefeated run never lasts forever but it seems like we only lose because the players can't be arsed. I can't remember too many defeats where we've been outplayed in the past season or two.

Even if we'd won today, losing 6 (now 7) games at home isn't the form of champions. Interestingly, we're well above last seasons points total.

Some of the problem today seemed to be that Palmer and LJL couldn't use their power/weight advantage without giving away a free-kick, whilst attacking. The Wrexham players went down too easy and the ref wasn't good enough to realise.

Onto the playoffs - anyone reckon getting a trust membership will get me tickets home/away I'm working the Aldershot game (and the playoff final  :'() and can get neither off.

It was just a bad game of football full stop. Yes another home defeat unfortunately but I think we should cut the team a bit of slack and try to get back onto positive footing for the playoffs . As a matter of interest I had a chat with Dean Keates of Wrexham at half time and commented it was poor fare, to which he said their lads were finding it difficult to cope with the very blustery conditions out on the pitch. Not an excuse but a fair comment.

I'd probably have given Pearson MotM myself though he was barely better than average on the day.

I admit to be absolutely gobsmacked by the overall 'performance' today. Out of our midfielders and forwards, Mackreth probably was the least bad and he spent half the game at full-back!

I agree with BIGChris that Brown must be so easy to play against - every time he got the ball, he twisted and turned this way and that and when not dispossessed, invariably passed it backwards.

Credit to Wrexham for working their socks off in midfield especially, but that shouldn't be enough to beat a team near the top of the table.

What baffles and worries me is just how a team on such a great run of form can put in such an utterly inept performance!

Before today, I thought we'd have a really good chance in the play-offs, but a team that can put in a performance like that? Let's say, I'm beginning to have serious doubts.

Usually there is some sort of straw to clutch at like we passed well or we defended well but only conceded to a brilliant goal but Wrexham offered nothing and we offered even less. Absolutely abject performance and really struggling to get any encouragement for the play offs now let alone Southport next week.

The doubts have always been there for me - I'll be honest and say I'm not a Hurst fan, but they had started to dissipate, to be replaced by optimism and belief. Probably much the same as many others. And now reality has bitten back. I've never honestly been convinced that Hurst has what it takes to get us promoted and I'm still not. It's not as if this latest home performance is a 'one off'. It's a recurring symptom of a problem.

Sorry but I don't blame Hurst for that horror show sometimes the players have to take the blame, today was that time no town player can honestly say he had a great game.

Play-off failure looms #groundhogseason.

I expect major tinkering with the team in the next two games ultimately leading to a disjointed 1st leg performance in the playoffs and another capitulation with hope looming on the horizon.

Optimism & Positivity 0 - Get Us Shape 1

It's the first PH interview in my memory when he's accepted that it wasn't good enough. Let's hope that he's got the balls to put it right.

Quoted from chaos33

The doubts have always been there for me - I'll be honest and say I'm not a Hurst fan, but they had started to dissipate, to be replaced by optimism and belief. Probably much the same as many others. And now reality has bitten back. I've never honestly been convinced that Hurst has what it takes to get us promoted and I'm still not. It's not as if this latest home performance is a 'one off'. It's a recurring symptom of a problem.

For me that performance was solely the responsibility of the players. They can't hide behind Hurst, grow a pair and accept responsibility for your NON performance

Quoted from BIGChris

I think Arnold generally has the best first touch than anyone in our squad!

Its a pity his second touch is so sh1t.

15 employees did nothing to earn their wages today, the starting 11 ranged from poor to awful, the 3 subs did little more and Hurst far too slow to react to what was evident from early doors was a sub standard performance.

Could go on a massive rant but cant be arsed.

Quoted from chaos33

The doubts have always been there for me - I'll be honest and say I'm not a Hurst fan, but they had started to dissipate, to be replaced by optimism and belief. Probably much the same as many others. And now reality has bitten back. I've never honestly been convinced that Hurst has what it takes to get us promoted and I'm still not. It's not as if this latest home performance is a 'one off'. It's a recurring symptom of a problem.

Assuming belief in the old adage that once they cross the white line the players have to take responsibility can I just ask what you would have done differently to Hurst to try to get them going today? Serious question.

I actually thought Mackreth did better at full back than he did in his normal position.

Brown was way beyond awful.

Those around me thought Macca should have done better with the goal but I'm not sure...

Quoted from alvinghammariner

We watched different games! His worst game in a town top IMO, kept getting turned constantly.

Remember he made one world class last ditch tackle he had no right to win which resulted in him getting injured that was worth man of the match alone. The windy conditions were a nightmare defending the osmond end but Wrexham coped a lot better.

Quoted from barralad

Those around me thought Macca should have done better with the goal but I'm not sure...

I don't think he had a chance with that at all. An excellent and accurate finish. Plenty of criticism for the defenders for making no effort to close him down at all, but none for McKeown.

audioboom.com/boos/3074839-gtfc-manager-paul-hurst-talking-to-humbersidesport-after-their-1-0-defeat-to-

My take on the match
The wind spoiled the game
The pitch too dry
The ref was awful
They wanted the game more than town
Very poor from town
Craig Clay  should play every game
Some may agree some may disagree just my thoughts

Ok, fair enough. It's the players fault. They take responsibility. Just as they do for the other 6 home league defeats too yeah?

Don't think we had a shot on target 1st half and only troubled their keeper when Hannah crossed to their near post in the 2nd
We didn't create anything really but just hoofed it to Lenny and Olly which their 2 at the back swallowed up
Very poor - Town looked like a mid-table side going thro the motions in an end of season nothing to play for game

I honestly got the impression today that the mentality of the squad is 'we're in the play-offs, that'll do'. I saw no desire to win, just a tremendous apathy when on the ball, and even more apathy when trying to win it back.

Exactly. Winners mentality. Champions ethos. Swagger. It ain't there and it's never been there.

I'm sorry everyone. We just fell out of title contention with a f*cking whimper, and I'm angry about it.

Quoted from barralad

Assuming belief in the old adage that once they cross the white line the players have to take responsibility can I just ask what you would have done differently to Hurst to try to get them going today? Serious question.

I actually thought Mackreth did better at full back than he did in his normal position.

Brown was way beyond awful.

Those around me thought Macca should have done better with the goal but I'm not sure...

Don't think he is specifically talking about today. It's a recurring problem Hurst has failed to fix.

Exactly Ginny, exactly.

As if it matters what I would do anyway. It's not my job is it.

Who do I email to ask that we play both legs of the play-offs away from home?

7th home defeat this season, mid-table form at best but only 3 defeats away and the best away record by far in the division.

Bloody awful today. Did either keeper have a save to make apart from the goal?

Was dire from start to finish. Thought it was a strange flat atmosphere almost like fans and players had realised the title was going to be out of reach. Only positive you can take is we've got third nailed on and can just focus on being ready for the play-offs now.

Players tired , too many changes , it was windy , the ref was terrible , they wanted it more....

relax... we're just saving ourselves for the play-offs....   (bash)(bash)(bash)(bash)(bash)

Quoted from alvinghammariner

We watched different games! His worst game in a town top IMO, kept getting turned constantly.

Obviously we did . And I'm not saying he was great today , but imo the other nine outfielders  were doggo

Op said Lenny worked hard ,well maybe yea it's just that he's not up to the job .

I thought football was supposed to be played on the floor especially in windy conditions.
It was abject beyond belief.
I just hope that whoever we get in the play offs we build up a substantial lead in the away leg because too many teams know how to play us at home

Quoted from BIGChris

For me that performance was solely the responsibility of the players. They can't hide behind Hurst, grow a pair and accept responsibility for your NON performance

What about the other 26 points we have dropped at home besides those three today. Whose fault is that?

You voiced concerns in a thread a couple of days back that ticket sales were down from the Gateshead game. Today showed why and i must admit that i made a last minute decision to stay away today and that wouldn't have happened in the past. It's just all too boringly predictable. It may be that the players can't perform when they are expected to win and it may be Hurst isn't good enough. Either way, the fare at BP is mostly awful.

Yup.

Here's a question: How many home games out of 22 played have we won?

First defeat in how many and we're straight back to hand-wringing? From where we were 2 months ago it's been an amazing effort to still be in with a shout of the title with three games left. Dreadful today but I hope one dire performance, the first in months, won't lead to the players giving up as quickly as some of the fans seem to be.

Quoted from the driver

My take on the match
The wind spoiled the game
The pitch too dry
The ref was awful
They wanted the game more than town
Very poor from town
Craig Clay  should play every game
Some may agree some may disagree just my thoughts

Thought the ref had a good game. One of the better in this league. One or two decisions that looked dodgy but not too much to complain about. Agreed about Clay, don't see all this fuss about Brown, 'best midfielder in this league' we got told when he signed...

The good news today was that we never looked remotely capable of creating a  decent chance to be missed.  

The bad news was the "nothingness" of our performance that was punctuated with comical, unforced errors.  

Play like that in the play-offs and we will not score against anybody.

We probably need to win in the first leg because we cannot trust our home form.  

The better news (?):
Maybe we have got one terrible performance out of our system before it really matters. Surely we cannot put in a nother non-poerformance as bad as that?  

We are isolated in third place with no pressure and that the 2 dropped points at Chester no longer matter. Hurst has different player options to consider for the last 2 league games.

Dooooooooooooooooom and glooooooooooooooooom! Chill!! We can still do it. We'll be at home in 2nd leg, good result (as per our away form) in 1st and we'll be grand!!

We are Town!!

If we revert back to the basic line up in the 7 goal displays earlier in the season - (is it a coincidence Craig D was on the bench for both?), I think Town can be on the front foot to see off the opponents in the play offs.

Points have been accumulated with a compact brand of football, pinching goals as and when (usually Craig being the hero in this type of scenario), but a brutal approach to seeing off opponents is needed in the play offs - must break the mould of the last 2 seasons.

Also, this has to be done quickly to get the fans back on board  

Quoted from Paris Mariner

Dooooooooooooooooom and glooooooooooooooooom! Chill!! We can still do it. We'll be at home in 2nd leg, good result (as per our away form) in 1st and we'll be grand!!

We are Town!!

A post that could have been written at the same time last year and the year before. Wrexham lost two play off semi's, followed by a play off final and then went downhill. That is what i fear.

It is, and always has been the awful lack of goals when needed that is killing us. Look at the latest scoring stats;

31 Akinde(Barnet)
23 Parkin(Forest Green)
23 Rendell(Woking)

No Town player in the top 5, and then the most ridiculous stat, the 5th placed top scorer..

17 Gray (Telford)

17 for a relegated side! How hard is it to get a team scoring?

Quoted from ginnywings

A post that could have been written at the same time last year and the year before. Wrexham lost two play off semi's, followed by a play off final and then went downhill. That is what i fear.

The key is to remain positive. We're still in with a chance and that's all that matters. We've got a bad performance out of the way for when it really matters. Realistically, we weren't going to win the title anyway.

That wasn't good, wouldn't have put brown in for clay myself but that was a real non performance. On a side note the wind made the game worse and the pitch is shite!
Definitely the play offs now and I think we've a pretty good chance, not too much tinkering for me, pick your best team and play it for the three games of you can.

Note on the ref thought he missed a couple of big decisions, Robertson was practically assaulted and there was a horror tackle on disley that was knee high but didn't even warrant a free kick. Should have had at least one pen for hand ball but that doesn't excuse a poor performance.

I do not want to call the team after that awful performance,

They have done well to get us where we are,

So I will just tell you about the 3 highlights of the day,

1.  The fish + chips after the game.

2.  The game at half time by the little school boys,

3. The ref when he blew the final whistle.

If we do not improve our home form we will be down here for years.

Quoted from BIGChris

For me that performance was solely the responsibility of the players. They can't hide behind Hurst, grow a pair and accept responsibility for your NON performance

How many times is that now?

Thought I would wait a while before commenting on today`s fiasco, IMO Clay`s forward passing ability was missed today and he was sacrificed in order for Brown to play a more defensive role which failed.

Try as he may Brown is not suitable for playing an attacking game and spent most of the time running in tight circles and getting nowhere, Clay`s party piece is winning the ball and feeding through balls to the strikers or wingers.

Tactics were not working today and there is only one man in the ground who could change or influence that and he did not have a plan B in his back pocket, all the players apart from Pearson must shoulder a big percentage of the blame and look to stuffing Southport next week to get back on the rails

Quoted from BIGChris

I think Arnold generally has the best first touch than anyone in our squad!

Nice to see you on here Mrs Arnold.

Quoted from chaos33

Ok, fair enough. It's the players fault. They take responsibility. Just as they do for the other 6 home league defeats too yeah?

Well now you come to mention it, they should take some responsibility!

I might not have agreed with the verdict on Hurst's management in those other defeats but could always see some merit in the arguments against him especially as regards substitutions (or lack of them) etc.
Today seemed different. He lost Robertson to injury which reduced his options but the bench was an attacking one. He brought on Hannah with plenty of time left. He went three at the back and introduced a (previously) really good impact sub. in Pittman. I'm assuming not many would have started with the latter two?
After Monday I thought Clay was unlucky to miss out but Brown has been playing well.
If today's match had been a horse race the doping authorities would've been all over it...

I thought that Magnay's great "accidental" trapping the ball dead, in the second half, was the highlight of the match for us.

Quoted from barralad

Well now you come to mention it, they should take some responsibility!

I might not have agreed with the verdict on Hurst's management in those other defeats but could always see some merit in the arguments against him especially as regards substitutions (or lack of them) etc.
Today seemed different. He lost Robertson to injury which reduced his options but the bench was an attacking one. He brought on Hannah with plenty of time left. He went three at the back and introduced a (previously) really good impact sub. in Pittman. I'm assuming not many would have started with the latter two?
After Monday I thought Clay was unlucky to miss out but Brown has been playing well.
If today's match had been a horse race the doping authorities would've been all over it...

Look, I know what you're saying Barra and I agree with you, but we've had a hell of a lot of 'one offs' at home this year that the players need to shoulder the blame for.

In fact, we've only won 11 out of our 22 home games so far. 50%. We've lost 7. That's some weak showing from a proud club like ours with the resources we've got.

Of course, the real point is, had today been an actual 'one off' (or even two or 'three-off'), we could have blamed the players for their lack of application today and let them shoulder the due criticism, but we've lost 7 times at home! We've only won half of our home games! That's a pattern.

Now, let's get real about about this - this is a telling fact when it comes to assessing our prowess overall. and to me, it says that something is fundamentally wrong in the way we're approaching home games. It's not the supporters, and it's not luck, and it's not referees. You're always going to lose a game or two or three at home, even if you're a top team, but to be chasing promotion and lose 7?! To only win half your home games?! Come on. Something is wrong. Blame the players today if you like, but take a look at the big picture. What else is going on there to explain this?

We've just played Gateshead (check out their great result today), and Wrexham at home in front of big, supportive crowds and turned in about half an hour of decent football across both matches. Absolutely crucial games against very average teams. Now, other people might be able to be philosphical about that, and be chuffed that we're in the play offs, but for me, we should have been going all out for a title challenge and should be doing much, much better at home and in these last two crucial games in particular. When it really, really mattered, we picked up one point out of six available. And it's goodbye automatic promotion.

I respect you and I know you have a vast football experience and knowledge, much the same as BigChris, and I agree with many things that you say, but somebody here is hiding from the truth.

Too much tinkering from Hurst again, no reason to drop Clay and that backfired as Brown was very poor.  Felt sorry for the front two as Arnold and MacKreth were fuckingdreadful.

Palmer looked p!ssed off when he went off and I can understand why, Hurst's love child LJL should have gone but this is Hurst all over, he p!ssed Cook off, then Hannah and now it looks like it's Palmer's turn as no matter how crap LJL is he appears untouchable.

Quoted from chaos33

Look, I know what you're saying Barra and I agree with you, but we've had a hell of a  lot of 'one offs' at home this year that the players need to shoulder the blame for.

In fact, we've only won 11 out of our 22 home games so far. 50%. We've lost 7. That's some weak showing from a proud club like ours with the resources we've got.

Of course, the real point is, had today been an actual 'one off' (or even two or 'three-off'), we could have blamed the players for their lack of application today and let them shoulder the due criticism, but we've lost 7 times at home! We've only won half of our home games! That's a pattern.

Now, let's get real about about this - this is a telling fact when it comes to asessing our prowess overall. and to me, it says that something is fundamentally wrong in the way we're approaching home games. It's not the supporters, and it's not luck, and it's not referees. You're always going to lose a game or two or three at home, even if you're a top team, but to be chasing promotion and lose 7?! To only win half your home games?! Come on. Something is wrong. Blame the players today if you like, but take a look at the big picture. What else is going on there to explain this?

We've just played Gateshead (check out their great result today), and Wrexham at home in front of big, supportive crowds and turned in about half an hour of decent football across both matches. Absolutely crucial games against very average teams. Now, other people might be able to be philosphical about that, and be chuffed that we're in the play offs, but for me, we should have been going all out for a title challenge and should be doing much, much better at home and in these last two crucial games in particular. When it really, really mattered, we picked up one point out of six available. And it's goodbye automatic promotion.

I respect you and I know you have a vast football experience and knowledge, much the same as BigChris, and I agree with many things that you say, but somebody here is hiding from the truth.

Bang on

Quoted from arryarryarry

Too much tinkering from Hurst again, no reason to drop Clay and that backfired as Brown was very poor.  Felt sorry for the front two as Arnold and MacKreth were fuckingdreadful.

Palmer looked p!ssed off when he went off and I can understand why, Hurst's love child LJL should have gone but this is Hurst all over, he p!ssed Cook off, then Hannah and now it looks like it's Palmer's turn as no matter how crap LJL is he appears untouchable.

Don't get me started on Lewis  >:(

Quoted from chaos33

Look, I know what you're saying Barra and I agree with you, but we've had a hell of a lot of 'one offs' at home this year that the players need to shoulder the blame for.

In fact, we've only won 11 out of our 22 home games so far. 50%. We've lost 7. That's some weak showing from a proud club like ours with the resources we've got.

Of course, the real point is, had today been an actual 'one off' (or even two or 'three-off'), we could have blamed the players for their lack of application today and let them shoulder the due criticism, but we've lost 7 times at home! We've only won half of our home games! That's a pattern.

Now, let's get real about about this - this is a telling fact when it comes to assessing our prowess overall. and to me, it says that something is fundamentally wrong in the way we're approaching home games. It's not the supporters, and it's not luck, and it's not referees. You're always going to lose a game or two or three at home, even if you're a top team, but to be chasing promotion and lose 7?! To only win half your home games?! Come on. Something is wrong. Blame the players today if you like, but take a look at the big picture. What else is going on there to explain this?

We've just played Gateshead (check out their great result today), and Wrexham at home in front of big, supportive crowds and turned in about half an hour of decent football across both matches. Absolutely crucial games against very average teams. Now, other people might be able to be philosphical about that, and be chuffed that we're in the play offs, but for me, we should have been going all out for a title challenge and should be doing much, much better at home and in these last two crucial games in particular. When it really, really mattered, we picked up one point out of six available. And it's goodbye automatic promotion.

I respect you and I know you have a vast football experience and knowledge, much the same as BigChris, and I agree with many things that you say, but somebody here is hiding from the truth.

Good points passionately put.

If I'm honest my memory of the game is so vague because I spent so much of it wishing I was somewhere else, anywhere else.

From what I can recall, Brown did a wonderful impression of a pub player.  A poor pub player at that.

The effort it took to get ourselves back into contention has, in my eyes, proved our undoing in recent weeks.  The players look absolutely copulated - as they should be after that massive turnaround in fortunes.  Some will argue that we left it too late to mount a challenge, others will say the table doesn't really lie at this stage.  I'm inclined to agree with both.


Rest everyone now.  I mean everyone. Drake, Bignot, Winnfarah, Venney, Bemrose, anyone who's not normally considered for the first team should play the next two games.  Get the first teamers fresh for the play-offs.

Quoted from Teestogreen

If we revert back to the basic line up in the 7 goal displays earlier in the season - (is it a coincidence Craig D was on the bench for both?), I think Town can be on the front foot to see off the opponents in the play offs.

Points have been accumulated with a compact brand of football, pinching goals as and when (usually Craig being the hero in this type of scenario), but a brutal approach to seeing off opponents is needed in the play offs - must break the mould of the last 2 seasons.

Also, this has to be done quickly to get the fans back on board  

Don't understand - this is a positive post. I want Town to be promoted. I'll be at Southport next week to assess the improvement - (hopefully).

Seven defeats at home is APPALLING in a poor league like this from a team that  wins the vast majority of its away games tells you everything you need to know.
There's only person to blame. The one who has a complete inability to produce a team capable of beating teams who come to BP knowing full well that the home manager only knows how to play one way. They come well practiced and stick to their plan A knowing that nothing else needs to be done because the home team has no plan B. Ever!

Quoted from Teestogreen

If we revert back to the basic line up in the 7 goal displays earlier in the season - (is it a coincidence Craig D was on the bench for both?), I think Town can be on the front foot to see off the opponents in the play offs.

Points have been accumulated with a compact brand of football, pinching goals as and when (usually Craig being the hero in this type of scenario), but a brutal approach to seeing off opponents is needed in the play offs - must break the mould of the last 2 seasons.

Also, this has to be done quickly to get the fans back on board  

Don't care - whichever moderator is marking this down - this is the truth. Clay is the real deal for us (having been very important in those games) and for some reason is being air-brushed out at the vital time of the season. MISTAKE! i.m.o.

UTM

Quoted from ackomariner

Don't get me started on Lewis  >:(

LJL was very poor today.

But still better than Palmer who did absolutely nothing, but with less effort.

Hardly a surprise the team were so bad, really, especially when you consider how inept the midfield played.

Quoted from RoboCod

It is, and always has been the awful lack of goals when needed that is killing us. Look at the latest scoring stats;

31 Akinde(Barnet)
23 Parkin(Forest Green)
23 Rendell(Woking)

No Town player in the top 5, and then the most ridiculous stat, the 5th placed top scorer..

17 Gray (Telford)

17 for a relegated side! How hard is it to get a team scoring?

But there relegated and were 3rd? We're also above Forrest Green and Woking? Yes a goal scorer would help but I'm sure Woking, Forest Green and Telford would rather swap postion with us

The worst thing was we never created any chances and the hopeful hoof into a strong wind is absolutely useless. First half strong wind behind us not one player tried his luck unlike Wrexham who had two or three punts.

Scotty was getting crowded out in midfield he did try though and I will repeat again OUR SET PIECES NEED ATTENTION they are abysmal. It's no good having a six foot plus attacker if your crosses, corners and free kicks don't even beat the first man or go sailing into the stands

Quoted from Maringer

LJL was very poor today.

But still better than Palmer who did absolutely nothing, but with less effort.

Hardly a surprise the team were so bad, really, especially when you consider how inept the midfield played.

I think Palmer had one shot at goal, LJL did fuckall.

From people who were there I have spoken to Palmer was slow, uninterested and lazy, at least Lewis put some effort in

Quoted from Madeleymariner

From people who were there I have spoken to Palmer was slow, uninterested and lazy, at least Lewis put some effort in

So where  you actually there?

Quoted from chaos33

Look, I know what you're saying Barra and I agree with you, but we've had a hell of a lot of 'one offs' at home this year that the players need to shoulder the blame for.

In fact, we've only won 11 out of our 22 home games so far. 50%. We've lost 7. That's some weak showing from a proud club like ours with the resources we've got.

Of course, the real point is, had today been an actual 'one off' (or even two or 'three-off'), we could have blamed the players for their lack of application today and let them shoulder the due criticism, but we've lost 7 times at home! We've only won half of our home games! That's a pattern.

Now, let's get real about about this - this is a telling fact when it comes to assessing our prowess overall. and to me, it says that something is fundamentally wrong in the way we're approaching home games. It's not the supporters, and it's not luck, and it's not referees. You're always going to lose a game or two or three at home, even if you're a top team, but to be chasing promotion and lose 7?! To only win half your home games?! Come on. Something is wrong. Blame the players today if you like, but take a look at the big picture. What else is going on there to explain this?

We've just played Gateshead (check out their great result today), and Wrexham at home in front of big, supportive crowds and turned in about half an hour of decent football across both matches. Absolutely crucial games against very average teams. Now, other people might be able to be philosphical about that, and be chuffed that we're in the play offs, but for me, we should have been going all out for a title challenge and should be doing much, much better at home and in these last two crucial games in particular. When it really, really mattered, we picked up one point out of six available. And it's goodbye automatic promotion.

I respect you and I know you have a vast football experience and knowledge, much the same as BigChris, and I agree with many things that you say, but somebody here is hiding from the truth.

I know what you are saying but even after those previous home defeats we were still in with a good shout at the top spot. Yesterdays performance was poor and that must come down to the players. Regardless of what PH plans his strategy on or his substitutions , he can't be responsible for PROFESSIONAL footballers not doing the basics that they have been trained to do all their careers. Short passes , misdirected passes , failing to support isolated players, not closing down opposing players. These were very much in evidence yesterday and if the players can't get the basics right , no matter who is picked or the game plan, then they will fail.

Quoted from arryarryarry

I think Palmer had one shot at goal, LJL did fuckall.

LJL laid off the ball well for that Palmer 'effort'. About the best bit of play he managed, actually. Perfectly set up for a left-footed strike at the edge of the box - Palmer decided to use the outside of his right foot to chip it well over (and possibly wide). As I said, LJL was very poor yesterday, but Palmer was worse.

Bet somebody's sphincter is feeling much more relaxed.

Does anyone else get frustrated at times when Macca hesitates to give a quick ball out to start a counter attack off ? but instead keeps hold of the ball and waits to give the long ball up to Palmer or Lenny?

    Quoted from Madeleymariner
    From people who were there I have spoken to Palmer was slow, uninterested and lazy, at least Lewis put some effort in

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So where  you actually there?[quote=142]

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Perhaps Madeleymariner wasn't at the match but I definitely was and he is spot on, Palmer looked disinterested and I would have thought he would've put a good shift in to try and prove he's worth a punt for a contract with us next season,as I wouldn't think Mansfield will retain him next season and on a showing like yesterday I personally wouldn't want him here.For a tall lad he doesn't win that many headers,even against shorter opponents.His body language tells me he thinks he's a better player than he really is. What ever league we are in next season we will need to have a complete sort out in the striker department.

Well I thought they were both poor , I've seen a post on here somewhere that claims Lenny won everything and was by far our best player . I must have been in the queue for (insert any of the chaotic queues in the upper) .

Quoted from arryarryarry

So where  you actually there?

Blimey this board wouldn't exist if only people who were at games commented....

Quoted from Teestogreen

Don't care - whichever moderator is marking this down - this is the truth. Clay is the real deal for us (having been very important in those games) and for some reason is being air-brushed out at the vital time of the season. MISTAKE! i.m.o.

UTM

I don't bother marking up or down but by referencing to Dis being on the bench as though that was part of the problem might be one reason why you say you've accumulated crosses.

For what it's worth I thought we'd bottomed out the issue of Dis's value to the team this season. Personally I dread to think where we might be were it not for his contribution...

Having said that I was surprised Clay didn't play yesterday after Alfie although I don't think he's been airbrushed out. Brown comfortably the worst Town player for me although he was a contender for MOM in his previous two appearances. Who'd be a manager.... :-/  

Quoted from Freemoash88

Does anyone else get frustrated at times when Macca hesitates to give a quick ball out to start a counter attack off ? but instead keeps hold of the ball and waits to give the long ball up to Palmer or Lenny?

One of the few areas I agree with Pontoonlew and Johnny on is the ponderous nature of our build up. It is very frustrating when we go forward and then come backwards only to end up hoofing it to no-one in particular..

Quoted from arryarryarry

So where  you actually there?

I was there and I thought LJL did make an effort although he had a poor game,

Palmer on the other hand was waiting for someone to give him a chance,

SO if I was the manager I would have took Palmer off and left LJL on,

I would like to see Hannah have a couple of full games at Southport and home to Aldershot,

He looked sharp when he came on and always gives 100%

Quoted from MuddyWaters

It's the first PH interview in my memory when he's accepted that it wasn't good enough. Let's hope that he's got the balls to put it right.

Its not his balls that are the problem its his brains, too many changes to the team when we need consistancy leading up to the run in.

Quoted from arryarryarry

So where  you actually there?

No, thats why I said people I have spoken to stated it, not me :)

Quoted from barralad

One of the few areas I agree with Pontoonlew and Johnny on is the ponderous nature of our build up. It is very frustrating when we go forward and then come backwards only to end up hoofing it to no-one in particular..

Most of our players (in midfield especially) wouldn't know a first time pass if it kicked them up the bottom. Metaphorically speaking.

Disley has never been the most dynamic of players for all his other assets, Brown gets the ball, twists, turns then passes it backwards. Clay probably plays it a little quicker than these two but not by much. Mackreth never seems to hit a first time cross and neither does Arnold.

With the arrival of Robertson, I think we're actually a bit better with the ball at the back and it is only really Toto that worries me when in possession. It's even worse when he's given time to pick a pass as he invariably whacks it straight to an opposition player.

The big problem (as ever) is the midfield isn't quite good enough in my opinion. No pace in the middle of the park and Wrexham chased us down in numbers there much to easily yesterday.

Quoted from Maringer

Most of our players (in midfield especially) wouldn't know a first time pass if it kicked them up the bottom. Metaphorically speaking.

Disley has never been the most dynamic of players for all his other assets, Brown gets the ball, twists, turns then passes it backwards. Clay probably plays it a little quicker than these two but not by much. Mackreth never seems to hit a first time cross and neither does Arnold.

With the arrival of Robertson, I think we're actually a bit better with the ball at the back and it is only really Toto that worries me when in possession. It's even worse when he's given time to pick a pass as he invariably whacks it straight to an opposition player.

The big problem (as ever) is the midfield isn't quite good enough in my opinion. No pace in the middle of the park and Wrexham chased us down in numbers there much to easily yesterday.

Wrexham had a very narrow midfield diamond and not for the first time such a formation resulted in us Being toothless. With them being so narrow we had to get the ball wide quickly and then attack immediately. We don't do so. We are ponderous, deliberate and slow. The opposite to how we often play away where Arnold seems two or three times as quick and direct than he is at BP. Similar with Mackreth.

I want to see us retain possession but equally I want to see our wide players running at full backs, ( there is no more exciting play in football as that IMO)turning attack into defence quickly.

Interesting. So then, with lots of people making these well argued points and fairly widespread agreement on where it is we might be going wrong at home, do we still want to blame the players?

The management have had a long time to recognise and address these shortcomings (I'm not saying the odd poor performance you could put down to the players isn't to be expected), and have they? An emphatic no. Are we an effective attacking unit at home? The facts say no. We've won only 11 games out of 22. Is this the reason why we're not going to be promoted as champions? Categorically yes. We will go into the play offs under immense pressure with no self-belief amongst the players or supporters in terms of winning that home game, and a very obvious tactical and technical weakness that a decent opponent can exploit.

Quoted from chaos33

Interesting. So then, with lots of people making these well argued points and fairly widespread agreement on where it is we might be going wrong at home, do we still want to blame the players?

The management have had a long time to recognise and address these shortcomings (I'm not saying the odd poor performance you could put down to the players isn't to be expected), and have they? An emphatic no. Are we an effective attacking unit at home? The facts say no. We've won only 11 games out of 22. Is this the reason why we're not going to be promoted as champions? Categorically yes. We will go into the play offs under immense pressure with no self-belief amongst the players or supporters in terms of winning that home game, and a very obvious tactical and technical weakness that a decent opponent can exploit.

Been saying this since his first season in charge and still say he won't get us promoted......but some people can't/ won't see it

Quoted from ackomariner

Been saying this since his first season in charge and still say he won't get us promoted......but some people can't/ won't see it

If come the end of the season he hasn't got us promoted I will come on here and praise you for your incredible foresight. Until then it is just a matter of opinion and, needless to say mine is that we have a more than evens chance of getting promoted with the current manager.

Quoted from chaos33

Interesting. So then, with lots of people making these well argued points and fairly widespread agreement on where it is we might be going wrong at home, do we still want to blame the players?

The management have had a long time to recognise and address these shortcomings (I'm not saying the odd poor performance you could put down to the players isn't to be expected), and have they? An emphatic no. Are we an effective attacking unit at home? The facts say no. We've won only 11 games out of 22. Is this the reason why we're not going to be promoted as champions? Categorically yes. We will go into the play offs under immense pressure with no self-belief amongst the players or supporters in terms of winning that home game, and a very obvious tactical and technical weakness that a decent opponent can exploit.

Wow that's a very sweeping statement even in Fishy terms! Isn't every team in the play offs under "immense pressure"? The players I'd argue have been under that sort of pressure from day 1 given the expectations of the fans.
For what it's worth I believe we can do it-I won't be on my own amongst the fans. I suspect the players believe they can do it.
If I was putting myself at risk of being accused of making similarly sweeping statements I'd say that the players categorically believe they can win an away leg which as it comes first may mean a draw at home would be good enough! :)

Quoted from barralad

Wow that's a very sweeping statement even in Fishy terms! Isn't every team in the play offs under "immense pressure"? The players I'd argue have been under that sort of pressure from day 1 given the expectations of the fans.
For what it's worth I believe we can do it-I won't be on my own amongst the fans. I suspect the players believe they can do it.
If I was putting myself at risk of being accused of making similarly sweeping statements I'd say that the players categorically believe they can win an away leg which as it comes first may mean a draw at home would be good enough! :)

Well, if I played for a team that has beaten the leaders home and away, I would expect to beat the teams below them.

Ooh Barra, the splitting of hairs. What fun.
You know exactly the point I'm making - a team who were confident and competent at home, with season-long results to back that up would be relishing that home game, with a big crowd in to support them. Our players would appear to not really know what they're doing more often than not at home, or if they do, they seem unable to reproduce that away form in terms of individual and collective performances. As I have stated - I'm not blaming them anyway. It's something in the way the Manager is preparing, organising, coaching them (call it a combination of all of those) that has seen us fail to function consistently as an attacking unit at home.

A good performance against Aldershot will go some way to restoring confidence, but I suspect that the players are all too aware of their difficulties in many home games and that doesn't really breed confidence does it. I'm sure the fans will keep on 'giving it a go' as they always do - giving the team another chance, hoping to see their faith rewarded with a real 'up and at 'em' performance, but in the back of our minds, we all know that when it really counts, and when we're all packed in at BP, what we tend to see is the opposite of that.

The 'fans' seemed to have loads of self belief before yesterday but have abandoned it after one poor performance. We have beaten Barnet, Woking, Eastleigh and Forest Green at home this season. We won't have to play Nuneaton, Altrincham or Southport in the play offs.

Quoted from diehardmariner

The effort it took to get ourselves back into contention has, in my eyes, proved our undoing in recent weeks.  The players look absolutely copulated - as they should be after that massive turnaround in fortunes.  Some will argue that we left it too late to mount a challenge, others will say the table doesn't really lie at this stage.  I'm inclined to agree with both.
.

Have to say I disagree with that on a purely physiological basis. At this stage of the season the players who have had a run of games should be somewhere around their peak, 5 of whom had a week's rest, 6 of whom had 5 days' rest. More than enough time to recover from a match. Also, I don't really know if our turnaround in fortune cost that much more in effort, just better application with confidence.

And it wasn't too late to challenge. Look at Mansfield's and Kidderminster's runs last year. Problem was we didn't keep winning.

Quoted from chaos33

Ooh Barra, the splitting of hairs. What fun.
You know exactly the point I'm making - a team who were confident and competent at home, with season-long results to back that up would be relishing that home game, with a big crowd in to support them. Our players would appear to not really know what they're doing more often than not at home, or if they do, they seem unable to reproduce that away form in terms of individual and collective performances. As I have stated - I'm not blaming them anyway. It's something in the way the Manager is preparing, organising, coaching them (call it a combination of all of those) that has seen us fail to function consistently as an attacking unit at home.

A good performance against Aldershot will go some way to restoring confidence, but I suspect that the players are all too aware of their difficulties in many home games and that doesn't really breed confidence does it. I'm sure the fans will keep on 'giving it a go' as they allways do - giving the team another chance, hoping to see their faith rewarded with a real 'up and at 'em' performance, but in the back of our minds, we all know that when it really counts, and when we're all packed in at BP, what we tend to see is the opposite of that.

So you would rather blame poor INDIVIDUAL performances on the Manager and not the player! It has been apparent for some time that you don't want PH as manager but to blame him for a players inability to do the basics , these basics that should be second nature to them at this stage of their careers, is totally ludicrous. If PH has the formation  or the tactics wrong then that is a fair criticism. But surely it is only right to also criticise a player who gets things wrong as well. Too many performances yesterday were below par and that is down to the players.

I think you should read the entire thread and understand what is being said before you dismiss. Why do the players have so mnay 'one off' below par performances at home that they don't have away?

[quote=3898]I think you should read the entire thread and understand what is being said before you dismiss. Why do the players have so mnay 'one off' below par performances at home that they don't have away?[/quote]


I wish I knew and I would imagine PH does as well! Do you know. All we can do is speculate why but it's too easy to blame the manager for something that he can't control.

Look I know what you're saying but this is one of my points. You don't have the answer and neither do I - we don't prepare, coach and organise the team. Hurst does. A few below par performances or individual or collective off days are to be expected as part and parcel of a normal season, but to lose seven at home, and to only win 50% of the home games, usually against average to poor opposition?? The answers are in there somewhere, and only the coaching staff and the players can find them. They must find them.

For an entire game against Wrexham and about half a game against Gateshead our players didn't seem motivated, focused, confident, attack-orientated enough. These were key promotion games! It's all too easy to just dismissively blame the players, but in recent weeks the vast majority on here have been posting that we have the best squad in the division!

I'm confused and I don't know what to believe!  ;)

The other thing about our failure to perform at home is,

How much is it costing in monetary terms,

Every time we get 4,000+ gates the team do not perform,

The next game its back to the normal 3,300 -  3,500,

If we had beaten Gateshead in front of the 6,000,

There would have been 7,000 for the Wrexham match,

It all adds up and Mr Fenty should be looking at this at the end of the season,

If we are not promoted, there must be a change in tactics  for home games next season,

Can Hurst learn from this season mistakes or do we have to look elsewhere.?

I hope we do go up obviously and think clubs in L2 will come to attack us,

They will not come and park the bus which will be to our advantage.

I've just thought of the perfect solution,we are all bricking it regarding our home leg in the playoffs, well ! how about we sabotage BP in some way that the home tie has to be played at a different venue,say Alfreton for instance as we always play well there and the team wouldn't be overwhelmed by a massive crowd. ;)  UTM. we can do it,league 2 awaits us this August..

What we do emphatically know is that we threw away 2 points at Chester and that is squarely down to the manager, no question. We then take one point from 2 middle of the table, going nowhere teams at home. Right there is seven lost points and being top of the table with 2 games left. It was there for the taking and we couldn't get up for it in the last 2 home games.

On the other hand, we have emphatically beaten and outplayed the league leaders twice, proving to me that we are a better side than they are, yet we struggle to dispatch some very mediocre sides at home with the ease that Barnet seem to (mostly) manage to do.

If we can play as poorly as we did against Wrexham and for half a game against Gateshead, why are people so positive that we will win the play offs?

Quoted from ginnywings

What we do emphatically know is that we threw away 2 points at Chester and that is squarely down to the manager, no question. We then take one point from 2 middle of the table, going nowhere teams at home. Right there is seven lost points and being top of the table with 2 games left. It was there for the taking and we couldn't get up for it in the last 2 home games.

On the other hand, we have emphatically beaten and outplayed the league leaders twice, proving to me that we are a better side than they are, yet we struggle to dispatch some very mediocre sides at home with the ease that Barnet seem to (mostly) manage to do.

If we can play as poorly as we did against Wrexham and for half a game against Gateshead, why are people so positive that we will win the play offs?

Oooh controversial...... ;)

Quoted from barralad

Oooh controversial...... ;)

He made a mistake, whether he admits it or not.

Quoted from ginnywings

He made a mistake, whether he admits it or not.

What he said was " if I didn't make the substitution we could've lost the game"

Not that we were cruising and Chester not having a shot at goal......yeah he copulated it right up big time

Quoted from ginnywings

What we do emphatically know is that we threw away 2 points at Chester and that is squarely down to the manager, no question. We then take one point from 2 middle of the table, going nowhere teams at home. Right there is seven lost points and being top of the table with 2 games left. It was there for the taking and we couldn't get up for it in the last 2 home games.

On the other hand, we have emphatically beaten and outplayed the league leaders twice, proving to me that we are a better side than they are, yet we struggle to dispatch some very mediocre sides at home with the ease that Barnet seem to (mostly) manage to do.

If we can play as poorly as we did against Wrexham and for half a game against Gateshead, why are people so positive that we will win the play offs?

Who has stated that we'll win the play offs? The only statements of certainty I've read are from those who say we can't. I remain convinced we have a chance because before yesterday we had won 8 out of 10 games and drawn the other two making us the form team in the division. I think the team and manager deserve a bit more faith and support than being written off after one shitty performance.

Quoted from barralad

I don't bother marking up or down but by referencing to Dis being on the bench as though that was part of the problem might be one reason why you say you've accumulated crosses.

For what it's worth I thought we'd bottomed out the issue of Dis's value to the team this season. Personally I dread to think where we might be were it not for his contribution...

Having said that I was surprised Clay didn't play yesterday after Alfie although I don't think he's been airbrushed out. Brown comfortably the worst Town player for me although he was a contender for MOM in his previous two appearances. Who'd be a manager.... :-/  

I'm not saying that Dis is not of value to the team - because he obviously is - but the 2 games this season, where Town have scored more than 3 goals (in fact 7), Dis didn't start and others did (and played brilliantly). (not a coincidence i.m.o.) We are now at the business end of the season, and it looks highly likely that Town are not going to get automatic promotion (after a very good run of results recently). We need a high energy fit bunch of players to put us on the front foot in the first leg of our first play off game - lets go for it - for a change. Dis can win us games off the bench i.m.o. but lets have a line up that's fit, fast, positive, eaten red meat and ready to go for the jugular.

UTM

For me dropping Disley would be utter madness. Head and shoulders our best central midfielder.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

For me dropping Disley would be utter madness. Head and shoulders our best central midfielder.

This......first on the team sheet for me

As I've noted in the past, I reckon that Disley is both our quickest and most mobile central midfielder and he's not far off 34 years old! Definitely our best player in the middle of the park though he does have the odd off day and yesterday was certainly one of them.

I think there are questions to be asked about the general fitness of both Brown and Clay.

Thought the Wrexham No. 8 was very good yesterday. Covered no end of ground, pressured our players when they had the ball, won loads of tackles and linked up play well. Pretty much everything that our own midfielders failed to achieve!

Jay Harris I think. Him and Keates have been a good pair fir them for a few seasons though it's done them no good this season.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Who has stated that we'll win the play offs? The only statements of certainty I've read are from those who say we can't. I remain convinced we have a chance because before yesterday we had won 8 out of 10 games and drawn the other two making us the form team in the division. I think the team and manager deserve a bit more faith and support than being written off after one shitty performance.

In all fairness though, who's written us off?

Quoted from Teestogreen

I'm not saying that Dis is not of value to the team - because he obviously is - but the 2 games this season, where Town have scored more than 3 goals (in fact 7), Dis didn't start and others did (and played brilliantly). (not a coincidence i.m.o.) We are now at the business end of the season, and it looks highly likely that Town are not going to get automatic promotion (after a very good run of results recently). We need a high energy fit bunch of players to put us on the front foot in the first leg of our first play off game - lets go for it - for a change. Dis can win us games off the bench i.m.o. but lets have a line up that's fit, fast, positive, eaten red meat and ready to go for the jugular.

UTM

That line up also included a certain midfielder no longer at the club. Out of interest who would you play in Dis's place?  BTW I also don't buy into the idea that somehow Dis isn't fit.or fast

Absolutely - Neilson was outstanding - he had to go.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Who has stated that we'll win the play offs? The only statements of certainty I've read are from those who say we can't. I remain convinced we have a chance because before yesterday we had won 8 out of 10 games and drawn the other two making us the form team in the division. I think the team and manager deserve a bit more faith and support than being written off after one shitty performance.

If only it were just the one. As good as the recent run has been, too many points have slipped past to give ourselves a fighting chance of the title, which a real shame. It just all seems very deja vu to me. We were challenging at the top all too briefly.

Anyway, it's all academic now. Some are happy with the way the season has panned out and some aren't. Some think Hurst is a good manager and some don't. Guess we'll just have to wait and see which Town turns up for the crunch games.

Agree totally.

Unfortunately, I haven't thought we were really good enough to go up as Champions at any point this season. We've been much improved since the arrival of Palmer and Robertson, hence the recent fantastic run of form, but I still wouldn't say we've looked to be a really good side. Capable, yes, but with too many weaknesses which have appeared too often.

If Robertson is out with injury for the rest of the season (as seems possible), that could be a big loss. Magnay is a capable replacement on the left but there is a lot of doubt in my mind whether Bignot or Parslow are good enough full-backs to help the team progress through the play-offs.

Fingers-crossed all will go OK, I suppose.

Bignot Will not be match fit unless played for the last two games, Parslow almost the same, they need some game time before the playoffs starting Saturday