A lad at work as an allotment on the site of the proposed new ground and sounds to me like a dirty tricks campaign is afoot? He claims the allotments have been getting vandalised on a large scale over past 2-3 weeks and they are finger pointing at JF,GTFC and GTFC supporters. The cynic in me says this will be orchestrated by anti stadium people trying to shift the blame and make the pro stadium supporters look guilty but you can expect a load of noise in the Telegraph over the next few days. I think a couple of hundred scarecrows should turn up at any anti stadium protest surely?

I don't get how vandalising the allotments in any way would help to advance the scheme ?
I can't imagine JF going along dressed in camouflage clothing to dig up a few spuds .😂

Only a fool would relate it to the proposed new development, oh hang on a minute Defretis or how ever you spell it

Judging by the behavior and rudeness of many of the anti stadium/enabling development 'protesters' nothing would surprise me. i was told this week that they have been back getting signatures from mourners whilst saying good byes to their loved ones at the Crem.

Quoted from BIGChris

Judging by the behavior and rudeness of many of the anti stadium/enabling development 'protesters' nothing would surprise me. i was told this week that they have been back getting signatures from mourners whilst saying good byes to their loved ones at the Crem.

What ever next posters in the hearse windows and De Freitas badges

Quoted from BIGChris

Judging by the behavior and rudeness of many of the anti stadium/enabling development 'protesters' nothing would surprise me. i was told this week that they have been back getting signatures from mourners whilst saying good byes to their loved ones at the Crem.

I have been told that a book has been left for signatures at the Crem by the same guy told me about the allotment. I said I can just imagine the outcry if the Football Club did the same dirty tricks are afoot and with the likes of De Freitas involved who can be surprised?

Quoted from highcliff mariner

I don't get how vandalising the allotments in any way would help to advance the scheme ?
I can't imagine JF going along dressed in camouflage clothing to dig up a few spuds .😂

By laying the blame at Pro Stadium supporters for the vandalism they intend to garnish support by saying look what you can expect if you let this ground go ahead.

Anyway i just got my wife to fill in the survey, in favour of course

[IMG]http://i60.tinypic.com/2njk7yq.jpg[/IMG]

Quoted from highcliff mariner

I don't get how vandalising the allotments in any way would help to advance the scheme ?
I can't imagine JF going along dressed in camouflage clothing to dig up a few spuds .😂

But we could plant some turnips in the Pontoon end goalmouth and blame De Facelift

Quoted from Garth

But we could plant some turnips in the Pontoon end goalmouth and blame De Facelift

There's a great joke in there but i'm not going there.  ;D

Quoted from 1mickylyons

By laying the blame at Pro Stadium supporters for the vandalism they intend to garnish support by saying look what you can expect if you let this ground go ahead.

Hence I said , I can't see how vandalising the allotments helps the scheme?

Whatever next?

They're coming out with any excuse they can think of. What excuses have they used so far?
Traffic;
Located too close to cemetery;
Located too close to crematorium;
Located too close to Weelsby Avenue(?);
Protection of green belt?
Protection of in-dangered water voles.
Now claims of vandalism.

Have I missed anything?

Quoted from GiveUsAG

Whatever next?

They're coming out with any excuse they can think of. What excuses have they used so far?
Traffic;
Located too close to cemetery;
Located too close to crematorium;
Located too close to Weelsby Avenue(?);
Protection of green belt?
Protection of in-dangered water voles.
Now claims of vandalism.

Have I missed anything?

I think at least some of them are genuine concerns and not excuses

The developers and certainly the planners have to listen to the concerns and come up with solutions to allay fears.

BTW there is no green belt in this area

I'm no expert but we are led to believe there is a shortage of housing in this country, so surely loss of some green belt is inevitable.

Current land can and will be used for housing but it is NOT green belt. Nowhere in NE LIncs is designated green belt nearest being in South Yorks or around York

There is plenty of land available to build on in this country, even excepting the green belt areas around cities. Lots of developers have bought up land and then held onto it waiting for prices to rise further so they can make more money in the future. Which is stupid, of course.

Quoted from BIGChris

Current land can and will be used for housing but it is NOT green belt. Nowhere in NE LIncs is designated green belt nearest being in South Yorks or around York

Just shows what i ( and some of the protesters ) know.

Can't we sweeten DeFreitas by offering to name one of the new buildings in the new ground after him ?

Then let him very publicly unveil the DeFreitas toilet block (thumbup)

A red cross for that post ? Those Nimby's really are everywhere (gulp) (ohmy)(ohmy)

Dirty tricks campaigns do work:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/25/archway-sheet-metal-works-fire-tottenham-white-hart-lane

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/feb/20/tottenham-hotspur-new-stadium-high-court-archway-sheet-metal-works

On a serious note as mentioned above, it will be used for houses because that will raise revenue for the council.  The question those residents need to ask themselves is do they

a) Accept the new stadium knowing that it will take up significant room so less houses are built and once a fortnight have to deal with a bit extra traffic or

b) Opposite the hell out of the plans and a new housing estate springs up anyway, for social housing ie residents from the tower flats near Freeman street and some families they are struggling to find a place for.

I have heard this mentioned and I have also heard what sort of people they are looking to relocate away from Town.  This coupled with the governments push for affordable to buy or rent housing.

Quoted from RoboCod

A red cross for that post ? Those Nimby's really are everywhere (gulp) (ohmy)(ohmy)

I expect they are monitoring this and other sites to see what sort of things we may or may not be doing to drum up support and strengthen the argument for. Living in Grimsby as most of us do whether for or against the Peaks Parkway site we should all surely want to see progress made in the local area.Loads of things need to happen in and around GY to improve the place over the next 10-15 years and one of those is a new Stadium for the Football Club another is the swift removal of De Freitas.

Quoted from Marinerz93

On a serious note as mentioned above, it will be used for houses because that will raise revenue for the council.  The question those residents need to ask themselves is do they

a) Accept the new stadium knowing that it will take up significant room so less houses are built and once a fortnight have to deal with a bit extra traffic or

b) Opposite the hell out of the plans and a new housing estate springs up anyway, for social housing ie residents from the tower flats near Freeman street and some families they are struggling to find a place for.

I have heard this mentioned and I have also heard what sort of people they are looking to relocate away from Town.  This coupled with the governments push for affordable to buy or rent housing.

If those in opposition are in fact watching this. And other social media sites . This post will be giving em


Utm palpitations, they won't want  the riff raff anywhere near em . Much better off voting for the stadium as long as the enabling builders build. 5 bedroom detached pads .

I took my dog for a walk round there the other day.

The first thing to say is that Peakes Lane is currently a building site from the fire station all the way up to the YMCA.

There has been no complaints about the noise, traffic, ( you have to walk on the road because the grass verge is full of vans), and no one has had to survey the effects on the vole, bird populations. Planning permission granted without a word said, & it is next to St. Andrews Hospice, & opposite St. Hughes.

The allotments look well tended, but there is a lot of wooden pallets being left between them, presumably by the allotment owners. There's also a lot of other rubbish laying about.

What will happen to Gooseman's Drain that straddles the land?

I was surprised by how few allotments there are for the size of the land that there is there. There is a lot of space around them.

FFS If all else fails go for the old eye sore ice house area now been leveled. Gate way to and from the A180, Avoids coming into town, good rail link, could easily put a road /bus route in off the A180. Great back drop of the iconic dock tower and would be a great iconic venue enhancing our fishing heritage tradition hence our nick name (mariners) Job done.

Quoted from Mrs Doyle

FFS If all else fails go for the old eye sore ice house area now been leveled. Gate way to and from the A180, Avoids coming into town, good rail link, could easily put a road /bus route in off the A180. Great back drop of the iconic dock tower and would be a great iconic venue enhancing our fishing heritage tradition hence our nick name (mariners) Job done.

Who owns the land and who pays for the new stadium?

Quoted from BIGChris

Who owns the land and who pays for the new stadium?

I still don't fully understand the answer to that question re Peaks Parkway.

My limited understanding is that the developers of the enabling development pay for the majority of the stadium. I assume the council or a new holding company will own the land on which the stadium will be build and the club will have a long lease (999 years) at a peppercorn rent

So GTFC won't own the stadium then. That's my concern. We therefore have next to no assets.

Sad though I would be to leave it Blundell Park doesn't really represent much in the way of assets.  Spoke to Fenty at the first consultation. He claims the Blundell Park plot is valued at circa £750,000.  After demolition costs of £250,000 club walks away with £500,000.  A drop in the ocean of new ground costs.

We already have next to no assets. The land under BP isn't worth a great deal due to its location so I don't think that will really be an issue.

The main thing with any new stadium is ensuring that we are getting a good income and not paying outlandish fees to hold games there (as happened at Coventry and various other places).

Quoted from Maringer

We already have next to no assets. The land under BP isn't worth a great deal due to its location so I don't think that will really be an issue.

The main thing with any new stadium is ensuring that we are getting a good income and not paying outlandish fees to hold games there (as happened at Coventry and various other places).

As I understand it the problem for Coventry was that the negotiations resulted in them only being able to keep the gate money. All monies from the refreshments etc went to the company set up to manage the Ricoh as well as paying rent. Presumably (and I cannot be sure) this was deemed OK for the Championship but when they were relegated with the associated loss of gate money the situation in the eyes of the club became untenable...

On the subject of anti-stadium organised protests I am trying to find out if the rumour I heard last night that UKIP are holding advice sessions on how to register a vote against the new development is true. Can anyone on here shed any light on it?

Would the council be willing to let out this (or another council owned site) cheaply to the club? I recently saw that the Birds Eye site (probably way too small) was on the market for £3m (eek)

Quoted from highcliff mariner

If those in opposition are in fact watching this. And other social media sites . This post will be giving em


Utm palpitations, they won't want  the riff raff anywhere near em . Much better off voting for the stadium as long as the enabling builders build. 5 bedroom detached pads .

4 and 5 bed detached houses should be the way forward and it will only serve to increase the nearest residents property, win win, you get my vote.  Alot of the building sites I have been on though do tend to have a mixed bag of detached, semi detached and a few houses together as small terrace.  Have you been on the new Yarborough estate and if so what are your thoughts.

Boundaries have and are being changed all the time around Lincolnshire.  Not all those at the flats are riff raff but anyone who has worked in and around the flats knows that it only takes one or two to cause major problems.  This and we are taking people in from other parts of the country.  This can level itself out and we may get rid of a few problems but we seem to get some from other areas so the problems aren't changing, just the faces.

The nearest residents will either get on board or they will reap what they have sowed at a later date.  The benefit of the new stadium is the club are answerable and people can go directly to JF and there will be less space for houses a quick scope of BP will show how much ground is taken up.

Quoted from Trawler

Sad though I would be to leave it Blundell Park doesn't really represent much in the way of assets.  Spoke to Fenty at the first consultation. He claims the Blundell Park plot is valued at circa £750,000.  After demolition costs of £250,000 club walks away with £500,000.  A drop in the ocean of new ground costs.

I seem to recall that JF has a floating charge by way of a debenture over the ground so that money is due to him rather than the club.

Please correct me if that is incorrect

Quoted from psgmariner

So GTFC won't own the stadium then. That's my concern. We therefore have next to no assets.

But if you buy a leasehold house with, say a 999 year lease, you do effectively 'own' the property

Quoted from psgmariner

So GTFC won't own the stadium then. That's my concern. We therefore have next to no assets.

Does it really matter? It will be a community asset, which we as a club will use but so will others. As pointed out, BP is worth nowt anyway.

Just had a thought,

If there are any vacant plots on the allotments,

We should take them up and work from the inside, :)

Quoted from grimsby pete

If there are any vacant plots on the allotments,

We should take them up and work from the inside, :)

I carrot be bothered with that

Quoted from grimsby pete

Just had a thought,

If there are any vacant plots on the allotments,

We should take them up and work from the inside, :)

I'll get my name down for one toMARROW         ;D

Allotments are like gold dust down here. They've even stopped taking names on the waiting list. You have to bump people off to get on the list. If there's any vacancies up there it's a crying shame and proves any stadium won't affect that many people.

PS on the other hand I've not seen any evidence to support the claim there's a big unmet demand for housing so I'm not convinced there's enough money out there for any enabling development.

Quoted from ginnywings

Does it really matter? It will be a community asset, which we as a club will use but so will others. As pointed out, BP is worth nowt anyway.

Not to be argumentative, but that's quite a narrow capitalistic approach.  

To me, Blundell Park - a place with history and memories galore in a town that disregards much of its built heritage --  is actually "worth" a heck of a lot more than any bland new meccano structure with a good car park and no local infrastructure.

And a 'community asset' that much of the community (outside of a lot of Town fans) doesn't seem to want is hardly an asset to the community at large.  


UTM

Quoted from nickmariners

Not to be argumentative, but that's quite a narrow capitalistic approach.  

To me, Blundell Park - a place with history and memories galore in a town that disregards much of its built heritage --  is actually "worth" a heck of a lot more than any bland new meccano structure with a good car park and no local infrastructure.

And a 'community asset' that much of the community (outside of a lot of Town fans) doesn't seem to want is hardly an asset to the community at large.  


UTM

Got to move with the times and your right with the word " memories "

With thoughts like above, it's no wonder Grimsby is left behind from other places in the country

Quoted from BIGChris

Who owns the land and who pays for the new stadium?

Yeah  your right Chris ABP owns the land that is like asking for a miracle.  Pity they don't see the connection between the community of Grimsby it's football team and the fishing heritage  :(

What shocked me more was the rudeness, aggression and just all round ignorance from people who are against it. I'm sure if the yes brigade behaved that way it would work against them.

Too many people have stood still in the town for long enough. There are people in all areas trying their hardest to move the town forward but every step along the way these busy/boring/archaic types stop it and then moan s year later about the 'state' of the town.

I'm not looking at what the new ground will do for the club bug more about how it can make mine, yours and everyone's town a better place.

Last week one silly woman kept tripping herself up and then when she heard it could be a Sainsbury's she seemed to warm to the idea.

As for the allotments, I suspect the initial comments are false and more to do with kids than find masked, pro stadium vandals. If town don't get the stadium there the allotments will still go when a big housing company and a multi national supermarket turn up and build on it anyway.

Quoted from ackomariner

Got to move with the times and your right with the word " memories "

With thoughts like above, it's no wonder Grimsby is left behind from other places in the country

Well - you may be the Pevsner of the Pontoon, and your confidence in the developers suggest that Grimsby has been wonderfully transformed in past 30 years. You live there, I don't, so clearly you are happy with the dog's breakfast that much of Gy has become (though Cleethorpes front area has been renovated well).

But in my opinion (and opinions are granted holy status on this website), Grimsby and district is not over-blessed with anything to do with its heritage.

If New is Good, Old is Bad, let's demolish the Dock Tower while we are at it.

I like BP, I enjoy going to a real football ground, I value those memories and that history, and for me the Dartford and the MK dons models are 2nd rate. A properly refurbbed BP is my own preference, and yes, I do think it may be possible to build an economic case around that as well as my stuck-in-the-past emotive one.

Now, Woking here I come

Quoted from aldi_01

What shocked me more was the rudeness, aggression and just all round ignorance from people who are against it. I'm sure if the yes brigade behaved that way it would work against them.

Too many people have stood still in the town for long enough. There are people in all areas trying their hardest to move the town forward but every step along the way these busy/boring/archaic types stop it and then moan s year later about the 'state' of the town.

I'm not looking at what the new ground will do for the club bug more about how it can make mine, yours and everyone's town a better place.

Last week one silly woman kept tripping herself up and then when she heard it could be a Sainsbury's she seemed to warm to the idea.

As for the allotments, I suspect the initial comments are false and more to do with kids than find masked, pro stadium vandals. If town don't get the stadium there the allotments will still go when a big housing company and a multi national supermarket turn up and build on it anyway.

Aldi - I am sure you want the best for the club, but speaking as a committed Town fan who prefers BP to PP, I don't think you win the argument by insulting those who have a different view.

Quoted from nickmariners

Aldi - I am sure you want the best for the club, but speaking as a committed Town fan who prefers BP to PP, I don't think you win the argument by insulting those who have a different view.

I think we should make that our logo in the fight to a new ground,

WE    WANT    PP   NOT    BP.    8)

Quoted from nickmariners

Well - you may be the Pevsner of the Pontoon, and your confidence in the developers suggest that Grimsby has been wonderfully transformed in past 30 years. You live there, I don't, so clearly you are happy with the dog's breakfast that much of Gy has become (though Cleethorpes front area has been renovated well).

But in my opinion (and opinions are granted holy status on this website), Grimsby and district is not over-blessed with anything to do with its heritage.

If New is Good, Old is Bad, let's demolish the Dock Tower while we are at it.

I like BP, I enjoy going to a real football ground, I value those memories and that history, and for me the Dartford and the MK dons models are 2nd rate. A properly refurbbed BP is my own preference, and yes, I do think it may be possible to build an economic case around that as well as my stuck-in-the-past emotive one.

Now, Woking here I come

You have made a massive assumption that i don't treasure those things in your other post. I'm far from a capitalist either. I'd love us to stay at a refurbished BP but it isn't viable. Your reference to Pevsner makes you sound like some kind of social tourist who is happy to return " home" for your kick of nostalgia and then intercourse off back to the "proper town" you moved away to.

Grimsby may be a "dog's breakfast" as you put it but without a new ground, Town may well go out of business altogether. Where would you get your nostalgia fix then?

Quoted from nickmariners

Well - you may be the Pevsner of the Pontoon, and your confidence in the developers suggest that Grimsby has been wonderfully transformed in past 30 years. You live there, I don't, so clearly you are happy with the dog's breakfast that much of Gy has become (though Cleethorpes front area has been renovated well).

But in my opinion (and opinions are granted holy status on this website), Grimsby and district is not over-blessed with anything to do with its heritage.

If New is Good, Old is Bad, let's demolish the Dock Tower while we are at it.

I like BP, I enjoy going to a real football ground, I value those memories and that history, and for me the Dartford and the MK dons models are 2nd rate. A properly refurbbed BP is my own preference, and yes, I do think it may be possible to build an economic case around that as well as my stuck-in-the-past emotive one.

Now, Woking here I come

Exactly right on having an opinion on the matter......but you don't want a new stadium and want to keep the heritage of the town, but don't live here anymore.

Well I do live here and for the good of the town and people who still live here, the club need to relocate and the sooner the better otherwise we might not have a club anymore

The people who live here and the town would continue just as well without a club or a new stadium.  Until you accept we are in the minority you will get nowhere with your argument

Quoted from BIGChris

Current land can and will be used for housing but it is NOT green belt. Nowhere in NE LIncs is designated green belt nearest being in South Yorks or around York

Maybe not green belt but its designation is as as close as you can get to green belt within an urban area

Quoted from realist

The people who live here and the town would continue just as well without a club or a new stadium.  Until you accept we are in the minority you will get nowhere with your argument

Ok mate, but I don't think I'm in the minority wanting the stadium built.

So I'll accept nothing and hope it gets built and argue till my hearts content if that's alright with you

......rushes to google to find out which team Pevsner plays for....

Quoted from realist

Maybe not green belt but its designation is as as close as you can get to green belt within an urban area

(lff3)(lff3)(lff3)

Braintrees effort last week maybe not be a goal but as close to a goal you're gonna get

Quoted from barralad

......rushes to google to find out which team Pevsner plays for....

He played for that team that was written about in Private Eye, think it was Neasden. He was their 50 year old 4 foot 8 inch Haiti central defender who scored bucket loads of own goals every game.

Quoted from realist

Maybe not green belt but its designation is as as close as you can get to green belt within an urban area

Should your user-name be surrealist perhaps? 8)

Quoted from tashee69

He played for that team that was written about in Private Eye, think it was Neasden. He was their 50 year old 4 foot 8 inch Haiti central defender who scored bucket loads of own goals every game.

Ah! Alongside Ron Knee?

Quoted from barralad

Ah! Alongside Ron Knee?

He was the manager. He's always been 59.

I liked the "interview" with Pevsner when it asks him for career after football, to which the answer was running a lorry hijacking firm.