RIP to Dave Mackay.... one of the hardest footballers I remember watching...

Never got sent off I read today.

Just heard Alan Mullery emotionally talking about him. He was trying to be so nice about him as he obviously thought the world of him. But his main points were that he constantly went round putting challenges in that would get him sent off in todays game, was a massive show off, and was extremely rude and disrespectful to his opponents even if they were mates!

Quoted from psgmariner

Never got sent off I read today.

Yeah, I heard that too. Probably due to the fact though, that back in the days when he was playing, you had to almost cut someone in half just to get a yellow card. I wonder how long the likes of Dave, Tommy Smith, Chopper Harris, Bobby Cumming etc would last these days.

It would also be interesting to compare the amount of red cards in one season of the late 60's, early 70's to the amount of red cards in the Premiership last season.

RIP Dave.

I saw him play for Spurs and he was immense in midfield, the perfect foil for Danny Blanchflower. When he went to Derby I thought he was past it but Clough knew what he was doing and Mackay was brilliant as a defender. He made Roy McFarland into a top class centre half as well.

Lovely memories of the man. There is an iconic photo of Dave Mackay grasping Billy Bremner by the shirt front and giving him some friendly words of advice!

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

There is an iconic photo of Dave Mackay grasping Billy Bremner by the shirt front and giving him some friendly words of advice!

Remember that well... little Billy looked like he needed to change his kex.....  ;D

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

I saw him play for Spurs and he was immense in midfield, the perfect foil for Danny Blanchflower. When he went to Derby I thought he was past it but Clough knew what he was doing and Mackay was brilliant as a defender. He made Roy McFarland into a top class centre half as well.

Lovely memories of the man. There is an iconic photo of Dave Mackay grasping Billy Bremner by the shirt front and giving him some friendly words of advice!

[img]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/01/06/article-1241178-0007DBD700000258-200_468x286.jpg[/img]

Quoted from Les Brechin

[img]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/01/06/article-1241178-0007DBD700000258-200_468x286.jpg[/img]

Thanks Les!

(icon_biggrin)

RIP Dave you was a great player.

Quoted from grimsby pete

RIP Dave you was a great player.

He was indeed and also managed Derby to the League title

Quoted from BIGChris

He was indeed and also managed Derby to the League title

It was good honest football in Dave's day,

Yes he was hard but not dirty,

Also there was very little cheating by pulling of shirts,

A good crunching tackle where you saw players stay down only when they were injured,

The good old days.

Quoted from grimsby pete

It was good honest football in Dave's day,

Yes he was hard but not dirty,

Also there was very little cheating by pulling of shirts,

A good crunching tackle where you saw players stay down only when they were injured,

The good old days.

He fitted into the football of the day well and by todays standards he would be banned sine die. As would many many others. Every side had a few who 'could look after themselves', many of whom have been mentioned but i think some look back on them as the good old days.

I agree they didnt get the rolling about, diving and play acting but lets face it, it was quite violent. Referees hardly made decisions, they just let players get on with it

Quoted from BIGChris

He fitted into the football of the day well and by todays standards he would be banned sine die. As would many many others. Every side had a few who 'could look after themselves', many of whom have been mentioned but i think some look back on them as the good old days.

I agree they didnt get the rolling about, diving and play acting but lets face it, it was quite violent. Referees hardly made decisions, they just let players get on with it

Never mind the ball, get on with the game! ;)

I think that today,  Bobby Cumming would "lay a few out" before he got his marching orders.

No chance though these days to put an opponent into the Barratt Stand hoardings.

I'm not long enough in the tooth to recall the aforementioned hard men but from what I've seen on clips, replays etc. there was just as much cheating as there is today, it was just in a different form.

Whereas today you get shirts pulled and players diving, previously a set of studs down the back of the calf or a forearm smash was the call of the day.  

I don't condone cheating at all.  I hate diving and I've cringed when Town players have done it but football rules have always been bent and broken, how that has happened has changed over time.  It's only in the modern game that everything is caught on camera and then analysed to death to fill up TV time/back pages.  

Not directly Mackay-related, but apparently David Elleray reviewed a tape of the 1969-70 FA Cup final replay about 30 years later and concluded that, with modern refereeing standards, there would have been six red cards and twenty yellows.  At the time, the referee issued one yellow card!

Before my time, but I hear that Franny Lee was notorious for 'winning' penalties by flinging himself to the ground dramatically whenever a defender got near him. No different to Ashley Young et al these days, really.

Quoted from mike502

Not directly Mackay-related, but apparently David Elleray reviewed a tape of the 1969-70 FA Cup final replay about 30 years later and concluded that, with modern refereeing standards, there would have been six red cards and twenty yellows.  At the time, the referee issued one yellow card!

Also Nat Lofthouse would have been sent off when he barged Harry Gregg into the goal,

Instead he scored.

Quoted from mike502

Not directly Mackay-related, but apparently David Elleray reviewed a tape of the 1969-70 FA Cup final replay about 30 years later and concluded that, with modern refereeing standards, there would have been six red cards and twenty yellows.  At the time, the referee issued one yellow card!

I remember about ten years ago, there was a phase where they repeated older editions Match of the Day (or possibly the ITV equivalent) on telly during the afternoon. During one of these repeats, I remember catching 15 minutes of highlights filmed in the mid to late 1980s, Newcastle vs Forest at St. James Park, and was amazed at some of the tackles going in. Basically, every time the ball went towards Gascoigne, Des Walker (who I never remember being a dirty player) simply went through the back of him two-footed to win the ball! No foul awarded and both players just got up and carried on with things. I remember thinking at the time that it would have been an almost certain red card in the modern day yet the ref didn't even blow for a foul!

Just goes to show how much has changed in recent years. On the other hand, I doubt the referees back then would allow players to get away with the shirt-pulling and obstruction which now seems to be the norm at set pieces.

Very hard to compare modern with the past. Ireland's injury at the weekend was horrendous for example and went unpunished by the referee.

Just my impressions from the past but the game seemed more honest and open in terms of physical contact. The tackle from behind is now banned yet in all honesty in probably hundreds of games I saw in the 60s and 70s I don't remember a really serious injury from that tackle, maybe because the boots covered the ankle better. The broken bones seemed to come from direct collisions and frontal tackles largely because those boots were lethal battering weapons.

I did see players deliberately kick out at opponents and look for "afters" when they had been tackled but there again that happens now. I saw Jim Baxter at Forest turn round after being clobbered and give the lad who did it a look of pity before leaving him in a heap the next time the ball came him. He was sent off then as he would be now.

Goalkeepers were unprotected and there were high profile injuries to some like Wood, Gregg, Trautmann etc. but goalkeepers still get injured now and to my mind there is far more foul play and violence in the penalty area than ever there was in those days.

Nobody can really say that players from those days would not survive now because they would simply have found other ways to do what they did. Ron Harris would still chop and Norman would still bite yer legs only with a bit more subtlety and from a different direction. I think Dave Mackay would still have been a great player today, he was clever enough to sort it out.

Enjoying reading these posts by the older posters on the fishy, bit before my time unfortunately. ;)

R.I.P Dave

Broke his leg, and then broke the same one again in his first match back yet still bounced back and didn't change as a player at all. It was either Mullery's or Greaves' autobiography that said he would spend days running up and down the terraces at White Hart Lane just to build the strength back up in his leg. Apparently after going down, his first instinct was to try and get up and go after the ball until he realised his foot was pointing in the wrong direction. Truly a different breed to what we have today.

I highly recommend The Glory Game by Hunter Davies. Some great stuff about him in that.

Even as a non Spurs fan, who wasn't even born in the year it covers I thought it was a very interesting read.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Glory-Game-Football-Mainstream/dp/1840182423

R.I.P. Dave your not allowed to make the sort of no nonsense tackles he made today. Pity really it was a great part of the game.

Quoted from Maringer

Before my time, but I hear that Franny Lee was notorious for 'winning' penalties by flinging himself to the ground dramatically whenever a defender got near him. No different to Ashley Young et al these days, really.

I'll never forget Franny Lee fighting with Norman Hunter - an infamous hard man at the time, and in my book the considerably smaller Lee won on points!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8kxMnc5KUs

Quoted from tarka

I'll never forget Franny Lee fighting with Norman Hunter - an infamous hard man at the time, and in my book the considerably smaller Lee won on points!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8kxMnc5KUs

Yes that was a good one, Keegan v Bremner was another,

You just don't see a good fight anymore. ;D

I watched an old highlights show from the 70's on YouTube recently in which Jimmy Hill was talking about the scandalous number of bookings in the featured match. There were three.

Quoted from DNMariner

Broke his leg, and then broke the same one again in his first match back yet still bounced back and didn't change as a player at all. It was either Mullery's or Greaves' autobiography that said he would spend days running up and down the terraces at White Hart Lane just to build the strength back up in his leg. Apparently after going down, his first instinct was to try and get up and go after the ball until he realised his foot was pointing in the wrong direction. Truly a different breed to what we have today.

I think the original break was in a European match against Man Utd. Changed the whole tie....

What a tremendous player Dave was a brilliant player indeed and one of the hardest players in the history of football.. Dave actually cost me my immediate move to Derby County. Town as a team went over to Derby play a indoor match which was going to finalise my expected move to Derby.
There was no Brian Clough at the game he had gone to Spurs to sign Dave McKay in london, I got told that he signed him to help me to get the ball in midfield.
Can you imagine that, playing with Dave Mc Kay in midfield. But it was not meant to be Town wanted to much money for myself. Rest in peace Dave you were a great player and would have loved to have been in the same team as you.
Dave Boylen

Quoted from newfootballer

What a tremendous player Dave was a brilliant player indeed and one of the hardest players in the history of football.. Dave actually cost me my immediate move to Derby County. Town as a team went over to Derby play a indoor match which was going to finalise my expected move to Derby.
There was no Brian Clough at the game he had gone to Spurs to sign Dave McKay in london, I got told that he signed him to help me to get the ball in midfield.
Can you imagine that, playing with Dave Mc Kay in midfield. But it was not meant to be Town wanted to much money for myself. Rest in peace Dave you were a great player and would have loved to have been in the same team as you.
Dave Boylen

It would have been great Dave ............ but I wish it had been at Grimsby! ;)