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I've never been one to slag PH off but I am beginning to think he has reached his level ie Conference Premier. He has signed some ( at least on paper ) good players but seems incapable of really knowing how to use them. He then does strange things like giving three youth team produced players and never using them. He said he had been chasing Mackreth for two seasons but on the evidence so far I can't understand why. He doesn't appear to have scintillating pace, always seems reluctant to take on his full-back and is hopeless at supporting his own full-back. Joe Colbeck might not have been that fast but at least he knew how to cover his full-back and you got one good game in about six from him. I don't know what Paddy has done wrong but I feel he is being totally wasted at the moment and I'm sure he will go at the end of the season and be a good signing for another team who use him in his natural position. Very few of the players even do some of the basics correctly , like supporting other team mates, making yourself available for short passes and being mobile instead of being static. A lot of the play seems to be reactive instead of pro-active and are very lethargic. I'm not questioning their fitness , just their whole approach to the game. I certainly think JF and the Board may have to make a season defining decision soon as regards PH's future with this club. He might unearth two or three players who could turn our season around but if things don't improve by the end of January then I don't believe we will get the promotion we desperately need.
One thing I would address to JF ( getyourfactsright ) is what was PH's brief when he was made manager in his own right? Was it get promotion as a first and only priority or did it also include trying to get some silverware on the way ie FA Trophy if possible? Now I know it's nice to get a cup and give the players a chance to play at Wembley but the club's future MUST take priority over any other distractions. Surely this should have been made clear to PH because anything other than promotion must be interpreted as failure. It's ok getting to the play-offs three or whatever seasons in a row but financially that is not good enough for this club without the promotion that goes with it. I'm sure that when JF was running Five Star if he had a production manager who failed to reach his production targets 3 years in a row then he wouldn't hesitate in replacing him. This is a very similar scenario and should be looked at in the same light.

Quoted from rancido

I've never been one to slag PH off but I am beginning to think he has reached his level ie Conference Premier. He has signed some ( at least on paper ) good players but seems incapable of really knowing how to use them. He then does strange things like giving three youth team produced players and never using them. He said he had been chasing Mackreth for two seasons but on the evidence so far I can't understand why. He doesn't appear to have scintillating pace, always seems reluctant to take on his full-back and is hopeless at supporting his own full-back. Joe Colbeck might not have been that fast but at least he knew how to cover his full-back and you got one good game in about six from him. I don't know what Paddy has done wrong but I feel he is being totally wasted at the moment and I'm sure he will go at the end of the season and be a good signing for another team who use him in his natural position. Very few of the players even do some of the basics correctly , like supporting other team mates, making yourself available for short passes and being mobile instead of being static. A lot of the play seems to be reactive instead of pro-active and are very lethargic. I'm not questioning their fitness , just their whole approach to the game. I certainly think JF and the Board may have to make a season defining decision soon as regards PH's future with this club. He might unearth two or three players who could turn our season around but if things don't improve by the end of January then I don't believe we will get the promotion we desperately need.
One thing I would address to JF ( getyourfactsright ) is what was PH's brief when he was made manager in his own right? Was it get promotion as a first and only priority or did it also include trying to get some silverware on the way ie FA Trophy if possible? Now I know it's nice to get a cup and give the players a chance to play at Wembley but the club's future MUST take priority over any other distractions. Surely this should have been made clear to PH because anything other than promotion must be interpreted as failure. It's ok getting to the play-offs three or whatever seasons in a row but financially that is not good enough for this club without the promotion that goes with it. I'm sure that when JF was running Five Star if he had a production manager who failed to reach his production targets 3 years in a row then he wouldn't hesitate in replacing him. This is a very similar scenario and should be looked at in the same light.

Some good points there Rancido - a + from me!

And on the Makreth / Colbeck point you raise....it really makes me wonder what Hurst (and Scott to be fair to him) were doing when they decided that Michael Coulson was not worth keeping hold of? :-/

I know he wasn't every fan's favourite and had a lot of abuse from some folk who sit around where I do in the Pontoon but jeez...imho he was twice the player either of his subsequent replacements were, proving his worth to York, in the Football League too, since we were minded to let him go

We've got the fourth highest wage bill and we're currently fourth, so it's hardly been a disastrous season so far as we're more or less where we should be in the league. Not that there isn't plenty of room for improvement but you could probably say that for every team in the division with the exception of Barnet.

Quoted from GrimRob

We've got the fourth highest wage bill and we're currently fourth, so it's hardly been a disastrous season so far as we're more or less where we should be in the league. Not that there isn't plenty of room for improvement but you could probably say that for every team in the division with the exception of Barnet.

Doing just enough then, like the past 2 seasons....................................

Where's the ambition?

Quoted from rancido

I'm sure that when JF was running Five Star if he had a production manager who failed to reach his production targets 3 years in a row then he wouldn't hesitate in replacing him. This is a very similar scenario and should be looked at in the same light.

I think that the last 10 years has proved that there's a big difference between running a fish company and running a football club.

Quoted from GrimRob

We've got the fourth highest wage bill and we're currently fourth, so it's hardly been a disastrous season so far as we're more or less where we should be in the league. Not that there isn't plenty of room for improvement but you could probably say that for every team in the division with the exception of Barnet.

Do Barnet have the highest wage bill?

In defence of Hurst...putting my head up above the parapet

Just been looking at the Macc highlights and can anyone explain how the ref didn't pull up any of their defenders for impeding our players in the box when Parslow stuck that corner away

I've freeze framed it, step by step and as far as I can see ( and no, not through my black & white tinted Specsaver specials ;) ) their players intentions were to block off Pearson and Hamish, nothing more, nothing less but because our lads shrugged off their tackles / grapples, the ref gave them the free kick.

Totally inept refereeing if you ask me...if anything it was the Macc lads instigating the situation yet we are doubly penalised? :-/

Quoted from Quagmire

Do Barnet have the highest wage bill?

No Forest Green Rovers do.

Quoted from FishOutOfWater

And on the Makreth / Colbeck point you raise....it really makes me wonder what Hurst (and Scott to be fair to him) were doing when they decided that Michael Coulson was not worth keeping hold of? :-/

I know he wasn't every fan's favourite and had a lot of abuse from some folk who sit around where I do in the Pontoon but jeez...imho he was twice the player either of his subsequent replacements were, proving his worth to York, in the Football League too, since we were minded to let him go

He was out of contract and wanted to play in a higher league for a team nearer his home - not much we could have done about that. The further down the pyramid we've fallen the bigger a burden our geographical location is. It certainly gives Barnet a big advantage over us.

Quoted from rancido

I've never been one to slag PH off but I am beginning to think he has reached his level ie Conference Premier. He has signed some ( at least on paper ) good players but seems incapable of really knowing how to use them. He then does strange things like giving three youth team produced players and never using them. He said he had been chasing Mackreth for two seasons but on the evidence so far I can't understand why. He doesn't appear to have scintillating pace, always seems reluctant to take on his full-back and is hopeless at supporting his own full-back. Joe Colbeck might not have been that fast but at least he knew how to cover his full-back and you got one good game in about six from him. I don't know what Paddy has done wrong but I feel he is being totally wasted at the moment and I'm sure he will go at the end of the season and be a good signing for another team who use him in his natural position. Very few of the players even do some of the basics correctly , like supporting other team mates, making yourself available for short passes and being mobile instead of being static. A lot of the play seems to be reactive instead of pro-active and are very lethargic. I'm not questioning their fitness , just their whole approach to the game. I certainly think JF and the Board may have to make a season defining decision soon as regards PH's future with this club. He might unearth two or three players who could turn our season around but if things don't improve by the end of January then I don't believe we will get the promotion we desperately need.
One thing I would address to JF ( getyourfactsright ) is what was PH's brief when he was made manager in his own right? Was it get promotion as a first and only priority or did it also include trying to get some silverware on the way ie FA Trophy if possible? Now I know it's nice to get a cup and give the players a chance to play at Wembley but the club's future MUST take priority over any other distractions. Surely this should have been made clear to PH because anything other than promotion must be interpreted as failure. It's ok getting to the play-offs three or whatever seasons in a row but financially that is not good enough for this club without the promotion that goes with it. I'm sure that when JF was running Five Star if he had a production manager who failed to reach his production targets 3 years in a row then he wouldn't hesitate in replacing him. This is a very similar scenario and should be looked at in the same light.

Post of the day for me. Absolutely hit the nail on the head

Quoted from GrimRob

We've got the fourth highest wage bill and we're currently fourth, so it's hardly been a disastrous season so far as we're more or less where we should be in the league. Not that there isn't plenty of room for improvement but you could probably say that for every team in the division with the exception of Barnet.

Quoted from Getyourfactsright

They earn an average wage at best.

Happy New year and best wishes John

How the hell have we got the 4th highest wage bill if the players earn an average wage at best.

It should, be average wage at LEAST, it all becomes clear why we have such an average team at best. In that regards play off's is great value for a team who earn average at best.

Quoted from Marinerz93

How the hell have we got the 4th highest wage bill if the players earn an average wage at best.

It should, be average wage at LEAST, it all becomes clear why we have such an average team at best. In that regards play off's is great value for a team who earn average at best.

I wonder, in the context of GYFR's post, what he considers the average wage to be in this area?

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I wonder, in the context of GYFR's post, what he considers the average wage to be in this area?

Unfortunately it is in football terms which I learned from a Chat with an ex players dad.

Quoted from Vance Warner

He was out of contract and wanted to play in a higher league for a team nearer his home - not much we could have done about that. The further down the pyramid we've fallen the bigger a burden our geographical location is. It certainly gives Barnet a big advantage over us.

http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/Grimsby-Town-Michael-Coulson-expects-exit/story-15920891-detail/story.html

Rancido
More or less sums it up for me I don't get to many home games blah blah but  it seems if the ship is sailing unchecked week in week out   Reactive  not proactive signing players not playing them (pointless) .players not doing the basics  totally unacceptable my granny could take a corner FFS . I don't expect a win every week  but please please Mr Hurst could we have some sort of substance  before it's too late .

Winning the league is gone ,play off's  to be honest disappearing before our very eyes like our loyal support.

Hurst and our so called professional footballers get  a grip on our situation FFS

The malaise at GTFC starts higher than PH who when all is said and done is only middle management.His will be the head to fall if our shared objectives are not met however I suspect that until the top to toe rejuvenation of this once proud club takes shape nothing much will change,

Quoted from Vance Warner

He was out of contract and wanted to play in a higher league for a team nearer his home - not much we could have done about that. The further down the pyramid we've fallen the bigger a burden our geographical location is. It certainly gives Barnet a big advantage over us.

Chicken or egg though VW?

My reading of it was that we were not prepared to carry on paying him what we brought him in for

Maybe that was Hurst and Scott just being frugal with their finances and thinking he would show us some extra loyalty but Coulson certainly stated his new contract offer was effectively him being asked to take a pay cut (akin to Bradley Wood's situation too I believe?)

Coulson said: "Obviously, it's a tricky situation. I want to be at Grimsby Town and have enjoyed my time here.

"I don't want to go too deep into it, but I didn't want to take a pay cut at the end of the day – that's what it is.

"It's not much and not a big cut but it's out of principle – I don't want to take a pay cut.

"Because the club didn't take up the option of an extra year, that gave me the chance to leave for free. It's a horrible situation for me because I have had a great time here and enjoyed my football.

http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/Grimsby-Town-Michael-Coulson-expects-exit/story-15920891-detail/story.html

Fair play for doing your research! Certainly seems a strange decision looking back. I still think the point about our location is an important one. Clubs down south have a lot of talent to chose from in their local area.

Quoted from Vance Warner

Fair play for doing your research! Certainly seems a strange decision looking back. I still think the point about our location is an important one. Clubs down south have a lot of talent to chose from in their local area.

Standard of living down south is higher especially in and around that there London. My lad flat shares because of his Uni and his share of the rent is £600 a month, not including bills. There are quite a few variables to take into account and this area does have quite a few good things that could make the difference in bringing someone up north.

Quoted from Marinerz93

Standard of living down south is higher especially in and around that there London. My lad flat shares because of his Uni and his share of the rent is £600 a month, not including bills. There are quite a few variables to take into account and this area does have quite a few good things that could make the difference in bringing someone up north.

London? Hate the bloody place. Dirty, smelly, heaving, unfriendly, not to mention ridiculously expensive.

I don't mind going down for a weekend as a tourist once in a while as there are the cultural bits to visit, but the thought of living down there leaves me cold.

As for the commuter belt around London, I've visited a good number of the towns down there and most of them don't have much going for them. There is more money down there, but the hustle and bustle puts me right off.

That said, it's very easy to understand why somebody born and raised in the south isn't keen on moving 'oop north'. It may be cheaper to live up here, but people don't like to be away from family and friends and, given an option to live in or around a major city somewhere, or in a small town at the end of the line, the choice for most is pretty clear. Heck, we even have players living in Yorkshire who prefer to commute a few hours a day rather than moving over to N.E. Lincs!

I don't want him out but...

If Hurst has got half a brain-cell about him then he knows as soon as this club goes up he's on borrowed time before the first game in League 2. We could win every game until the end of the season but it'd still be a step beyond him in League 2, and with more money coming in the club will probably spend a bit to make sure we don't end up in realms of hell again, guessing this why most of the team are on 12 month contracts too.

Quoted from Maringer

London? Hate the bloody place. Dirty, smelly, heaving, unfriendly, not to mention ridiculously expensive.

I don't mind going down for a weekend as a tourist once in a while as there are the cultural bits to visit, but the thought of living down there leaves me cold.

As for the commuter belt around London, I've visited a good number of the towns down there and most of them don't have much going for them. There is more money down there, but the hustle and bustle puts me right off.

That said, it's very easy to understand why somebody born and raised in the south isn't keen on moving 'oop north'. It may be cheaper to live up here, but people don't like to be away from family and friends and, given an option to live in or around a major city somewhere, or in a small town at the end of the line, the choice for most is pretty clear. Heck, we even have players living in Yorkshire who prefer to commute a few hours a day rather than moving over to N.E. Lincs!

London? "It's all oligarchs now."

I cannot defend PH, he is unable to react to what is happening on the pitch, losing at home and bringing players on with 4 mins to go is sheer desperation. Other managers out think him week in week out, he puts too much pressure on the players and because of this we then put further pressure on them. I have said it before , that we have a pretty good squad that is been badly managed. I also believe the standard of football in the conference this season has been worse than previous seasons, which really shows that our position of fourth would actually have been about 10th in seasons past. Jack Mackreth, Patrick Mclaughlin, Scott Neilson have the ability to add needed pace to the game and get the fans on their feet, why havnt they been used regularly. IMO we also need a keeper , Mckeown needs to have to fight for his place. I love GTFC and travel 240 miles round trip to support them at home, and would like to see GTFC match the effort of not just me but all regular supporters of the team, recent perfomances sadly fall way below acceptability. PH selects the team and formation. UTM :)

Most people seem to want at least one good winger in the team. Michael Coulson was mentioned above. He had a good record with us for creating goals. At York he has added scoring vital goals.

The decision to let him leave (however you put it) was short-sighted. How we could do with him now.

Quoted from TownSNAFU5

Most people seem to want at least one good winger in the team. Michael Coulson was mentioned above. He had a good record with us for creating goals. At York he has added scoring vital goals.

The decision to let him leave (however you put it) was short-sighted. How we could do with him now.

Apparently the rumour at the time was that Coulson was ready for an operation and it was 50/50 whether he would totally recover. I take it we wouldn't take a gamble. Wish he was still with us though

Other posters have talked about having a sense of deja vu in recent days. I share that, only mine relates to the latest round of criticism aimed at Paul Hurst that is not remotely supported by a reasonable analysis of the facts.

What do I mean by that? Well, let's think back to early October, when Hurst's position was last under as much scrutiny as it is now. After the home draw with Altrincham on October 7, I feared that Hurst would be dismissed. But, since then and with Hurst still in place, we have taken 26 points out of the 39 available to us. Prior to last Sunday, we had only lost once in our previous 11 league games (won eight, drawn two). And if you care to look back to the last point at which we suffered successive league defeats in September, we had taken 35 points out of a possible 51 available before last Sunday. Forgive me for not wanting to join in the witch hunt, but I cannot see how that record warrants the level of criticism posted on this forum in the last few days.

I wasn't at the game yesterday, but I was at the Lincoln game and, as much as they played very well on the day, I don't think we were, as has been suggested, poor. Perhaps I'm alone in recalling the three or four excellent saves that Farman made in the second half or the fact that we really should have been 2-0 up before their magnificent equaliser. We made enough chances to win the game and, like at their place in September, deserved at least something from it. It wasn't to be, but we'd had an extraordinary record against them in recent seasons before this year. They were always going to have their moments and those moments, as frustrating as they are, are not enough to justify a change of manager on their own.

I said in October that I felt it was a bigger gamble to sack Hurst than to stick with him and nothing that has happened since then has changed my view. Unless it becomes clear before the end of the season that we will not go up, and we are nowhere that point at the moment, the time to judge him is not now, not in the heat of the moment after a game, but at the end of the season. I'm prepared to wait. I'm as frustrated as anybody when we don't perform to the ability that we all know our squad possesses. But I try to keep things in their proper perspective and, sadly, I think too many of my fellow supporters, and certainly too many posters here, are either unable or unwilling to do that. I hope I'm wrong, but I fear Paul Hurst may end up being another Russell Slade – someone with whom we only truly realised what we had after he'd long gone.

Quoted from GrimRob

We've got the fourth highest wage bill and we're currently fourth, so it's hardly been a disastrous season so far as we're more or less where we should be in the league. Not that there isn't plenty of room for improvement but you could probably say that for every team in the division with the exception of Barnet.

Where does this information come from? People talk about who the big spenders are, but where is the information to back this up?

You could work our bill (last season) from the accounts, and make an educated guess at this season's. But what about other clubs?

Quoted from FishOutOfWater

Chicken or egg though VW?

My reading of it was that we were not prepared to carry on paying him what we brought him in for

Maybe that was Hurst and Scott just being frugal with their finances and thinking he would show us some extra loyalty but Coulson certainly stated his new contract offer was effectively him being asked to take a pay cut (akin to Bradley Wood's situation too I believe?)

Coulson said: "Obviously, it's a tricky situation. I want to be at Grimsby Town and have enjoyed my time here.

"I don't want to go too deep into it, but I didn't want to take a pay cut at the end of the day – that's what it is.

"It's not much and not a big cut but it's out of principle – I don't want to take a pay cut.

"Because the club didn't take up the option of an extra year, that gave me the chance to leave for free. It's a horrible situation for me because I have had a great time here and enjoyed my football.

http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/Grimsby-Town-Michael-Coulson-expects-exit/story-15920891-detail/story.html

Very honest and professional in my eyes. I was gutted when he went.

Quoted from Vance Warner

He was out of contract and wanted to play in a higher league for a team nearer his home - not much we could have done about that. The further down the pyramid we've fallen the bigger a burden our geographical location is. It certainly gives Barnet a big advantage over us.

I thought it was because he was offered a contract on the same money, not an increase? I thought he would have been happy to stay?

Quoted from ginnywings

http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/Grimsby-Town-Michael-Coulson-expects-exit/story-15920891-detail/story.html

Cheers, I couldn't quite remember why he left but Vance's version of events didn't ring true.

Quoted from lukeo

Very honest and professional in my eyes. I was gutted when he went.

He still comes to BP when not playing. The last time I spoke to him he said he is playing in a more central role at York, hence his goal scoring, but that was before Wilcocks took over. Top person.

Quoted from EY Mariner

Other posters have talked about having a sense of deja vu in recent days. I share that, only mine relates to the latest round of criticism aimed at Paul Hurst that is not remotely supported by a reasonable analysis of the facts.

What do I mean by that? Well, let's think back to early October, when Hurst's position was last under as much scrutiny as it is now. After the home draw with Altrincham on October 7, I feared that Hurst would be dismissed. But, since then and with Hurst still in place, we have taken 26 points out of the 39 available to us. Prior to last Sunday, we had only lost once in our previous 11 league games (won eight, drawn two). And if you care to look back to the last point at which we suffered successive league defeats in September, we had taken 35 points out of a possible 51 available before last Sunday. Forgive me for not wanting to join in the witch hunt, but I cannot see how that record warrants the level of criticism posted on this forum in the last few days.

I wasn't at the game yesterday, but I was at the Lincoln game and, as much as they played very well on the day, I don't think we were, as has been suggested, poor. Perhaps I'm alone in recalling the three or four excellent saves that Farman made in the second half or the fact that we really should have been 2-0 up before their magnificent equaliser. We made enough chances to win the game and, like at their place in September, deserved at least something from it. It wasn't to be, but we'd had an extraordinary record against them in recent seasons before this year. They were always going to have their moments and those moments, as frustrating as they are, are not enough to justify a change of manager on their own.

I said in October that I felt it was a bigger gamble to sack Hurst than to stick with him and nothing that has happened since then has changed my view. Unless it becomes clear before the end of the season that we will not go up, and we are nowhere that point at the moment, the time to judge him is not now, not in the heat of the moment after a game, but at the end of the season. I'm prepared to wait. I'm as frustrated as anybody when we don't perform to the ability that we all know our squad possesses. But I try to keep things in their proper perspective and, sadly, I think too many of my fellow supporters, and certainly too many posters here, are either unable or unwilling to do that. I hope I'm wrong, but I fear Paul Hurst may end up being another Russell Slade – someone with whom we only truly realised what we had after he'd long gone.

Found myself nodding in agreement. I don't think it'd be wise to get rid of him now and I don't think his record necessarily deserves it. No doubt we will fail miserably in the play offs again and that would be the time to do the deed

Quoted from forza ivano

Found myself nodding in agreement. I don't think it'd be wise to get rid of him now and I don't think his record necessarily deserves it. No doubt we will fail miserably in the play offs again and that would be the time to do the deed

Yes, EY mariner makes some very good points and i gave him a +, even though i don't entirely agree with his post as it only tells the stats. It doesn't tell of the dire way those points were achieved and the alienation the fans feel toward Hurst and the club at the moment.

I accept that some fans are happy just to get the points by any means necessary, but for me his whole footballing philosophy goes against the grain and is painful to watch.

If he takes us up via the play offs, then fair enough, job done. I don't think he will though. The lottery of the play offs seems to be the aim, when we should be challenging harder for the title. It's all very deja vu.

Quoted from ginnywings

Yes, EY mariner makes some very good points and i gave him a +, even though i don't entirely agree with his post as it only tells the stats. It doesn't tell of the dire way those points were achieved and the alienation the fans feel toward Hurst and the club at the moment.

I accept that some fans are happy just to get the points by any means necessary, but for me his whole footballing philosophy goes against the grain and is painful to watch.

If he takes us up via the play offs, then fair enough, job done. I don't think he will though. The lottery of the play offs seems to be the aim, when we should be challenging harder for the title. It's all very deja vu.

As usual, you and Forza make very sensible points. I just have no faith in the people leading the club to deliver promotion which is essentially a justification for a new stadium.

When people talk about sacking the manager at any time but the close season, I think back to recent history and how things went for us.

Getting rid of the manager mid-season just hasn't worked for us that I can remember from the past 20-odd years. It was sheer luck (i.e. Luton's enormous points deduction) that kept us up when Newell arrived but his chaotic reign ultimately set out the stall for our collapse into the Conference. Every other time, getting rid of the manager mid-season has led to relegation directly or a further downward spiral.

This isn't too surprising because it must be pretty difficult for a new manager to come in to a club and quickly discover what the strengths/weaknesses of the current squad are. This is why there tends to be a massive turnover of players very quickly with all sorts of loan signings coming in. Our circumstances mean that these players will either generally not be up to much or will bring a number of problems with them.

The arrival of a new manager can, on rare occasions, invigorate a club but there are few such managers around and you'd have to say it would a surprise if we got one of them given our current situation. Unsurprisingly, the better managers tend to be mostly in employment already or, if looking for a job, aiming their sights higher than a Conference club.

Quoted from ginnywings

Yes, EY mariner makes some very good points and i gave him a +, even though i don't entirely agree with his post as it only tells the stats. It doesn't tell of the dire way those points were achieved and the alienation the fans feel toward Hurst and the club at the moment.

I accept that some fans are happy just to get the points by any means necessary, but for me his whole footballing philosophy goes against the grain and is painful to watch.

If he takes us up via the play offs, then fair enough, job done. I don't think he will though. The lottery of the play offs seems to be the aim, when we should be challenging harder for the title. It's all very deja vu.

Good post Ginny , but I feel the way we've been playing the last two months we will be lucky to even make the playoffs never mind win them.

Quoted from Maringer

When people talk about sacking the manager at any time but the close season, I think back to recent history and how things went for us.

Getting rid of the manager mid-season just hasn't worked for us that I can remember from the past 20-odd years. It was sheer luck (i.e. Luton's enormous points deduction) that kept us up when Newell arrived but his chaotic reign ultimately set out the stall for our collapse into the Conference. Every other time, getting rid of the manager mid-season has led to relegation directly or a further downward spiral.

This isn't too surprising because it must be pretty difficult for a new manager to come in to a club and quickly discover what the strengths/weaknesses of the current squad are. This is why there tends to be a massive turnover of players very quickly with all sorts of loan signings coming in. Our circumstances mean that these players will either generally not be up to much or will bring a number of problems with them.

The arrival of a new manager can, on rare occasions, invigorate a club but there are few such managers around and you'd have to say it would a surprise if we got one of them given our current situation. Unsurprisingly, the better managers tend to be mostly in employment already or, if looking for a job, aiming their sights higher than a Conference club.

Yeah, i tend to agree. If you are drifting aimlessly in the league or facing impending relegation under a poor manager, then that is justification for changing mid season. We are not in that position and i think it would be counter productive to change tack now.

I just wish Hurst would be a bit more positive and hope to god that he brings in 2 or 3 players that can get us firing again. I appreciate it's not easy but sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate. A couple of exciting signings would bring back some floating fans and pay for themselves.

I know he was an bottom but for a few weeks, Conlon had us believing in the team and the atmosphere at BP changed completely. I remember a decent Gillingham side (i think) coming here in the later stages of our league status and being blown away 3-0. Their manager said the crowd that day were the main reason we beat them as their players froze. He said it was very intimidating.

I think the reason most people want Hurst gone is the home form,

We have won 7 but lost 5, even 6 if you count the cup,

Away from home fans do not expect us to play attractive attacking football;
Wining 6 and only losing 2 is great stats,

If Hurst can get the home form right he will be ok,

I am not sure he can but hope he does.

Quoted from Maringer

When people talk about sacking the manager at any time but the close season, I think back to recent history and how things went for us.

Getting rid of the manager mid-season just hasn't worked for us that I can remember from the past 20-odd years. It was sheer luck (i.e. Luton's enormous points deduction) that kept us up when Newell arrived but his chaotic reign ultimately set out the stall for our collapse into the Conference. Every other time, getting rid of the manager mid-season has led to relegation directly or a further downward spiral.

This isn't too surprising because it must be pretty difficult for a new manager to come in to a club and quickly discover what the strengths/weaknesses of the current squad are. This is why there tends to be a massive turnover of players very quickly with all sorts of loan signings coming in. Our circumstances mean that these players will either generally not be up to much or will bring a number of problems with them.

The arrival of a new manager can, on rare occasions, invigorate a club but there are few such managers around and you'd have to say it would a surprise if we got one of them given our current situation. Unsurprisingly, the better managers tend to be mostly in employment already or, if looking for a job, aiming their sights higher than a Conference club.

If we had sacked Woods during that long run without a win then I believe we would have stayed up but we didn't and the rest as they say is history.

Quoted from ginnywings

I just wish Hurst would be a bit more positive and hope to god that he brings in 2 or 3 players that can get us firing again. I appreciate it's not easy but sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate. A couple of exciting signings would bring back some floating fans and pay for themselves.

I know he was an bottom but for a few weeks, Conlon had us believing in the team and the atmosphere at BP changed completely. I remember a decent Gillingham side (i think) coming here in the later stages of our league status and being blown away 3-0. Their manager said the crowd that day were the main reason we beat them as their players froze. He said it was very intimidating.

I don't think that's going to happen. Hurst is a safety first man. I have this theory. This is hursts one and only chance as a manager and therefore his professional and financial future depends on him not getting sacked after a disastrous season. If hurst had been sacked in the first 6-12 months he was unlikely to get any sort of job, especially as his sidekick scott was practically unemployable.therefore he depended on percentages and playing it safe to do th best he could.he now has got himself in the groove where if he plays the percentages allied with the money that we've got, the quality of the players and the fact we're full time then he's more or less guaranteed to be in or around the play offs. Suppose he gets sacked in six months ,he can now point to three play offs, a trophy final and trophy semi final and he's established himself as a successful conference manger so he's not going to find himself out of work for very long.
And of course one season he might just fluke it and get us through the play offs! I don't think it will happen and I think JF will say bye bye in the summer and move on. That will be a because he's had enough chances and b because his unsealing style will start to affect attendances and therefore bottom line

Quoted from forza ivano

I don't think that's going to happen. Hurst is a safety first man. I have this theory. This is hursts one and only chance as a manager and therefore his professional and financial future depends on him not getting sacked after a disastrous season. If hurst had been sacked in the first 6-12 months he was unlikely to get any sort of job, especially as his sidekick scott was practically unemployable.therefore he depended on percentages and playing it safe to do th best he could.he now has got himself in the groove where if he plays the percentages allied with the money that we've got, the quality of the players and the fact we're full time then he's more or less guaranteed to be in or around the play offs. Suppose he gets sacked in six months ,he can now point to three play offs, a trophy final and trophy semi final and he's established himself as a successful conference manger so he's not going to find himself out of work for very long.
And of course one season he might just fluke it and get us through the play offs! I don't think it will happen and I think JF will say bye bye in the summer and move on. That will be a because he's had enough chances and b because his unsealing style will start to affect attendances and therefore bottom line

Yeah, that is exactly what i think and have said that any half decent coach could achieve the same given our resources. He is chugging along on a par score for the budget. We have been starved of anything even approaching success for that long, a lot of people accept what he is doing, but for me, there needs to be more ambition and risk taking. If we are going to fail again, i'd rather we did it with a more expansive brand of football.

I appreciate others see it differently.

Quoted from ginnywings

Yeah, that is exactly what i think and have said that any half decent coach could achieve the same given our resources. He is chugging along on a par score for the budget. We have been starved of anything even approaching success for that long, a lot of people accept what he is doing, but for me, there needs to be more ambition and risk taking. If we are going to fail again, i'd rather we did it with a more expansive brand of football.

I appreciate others see it differently.

Lot of truth in there. To play Devils advocate I bet there's quite a few conference fans who say that they wish they had Paul hurst in charge,especially if they had watched the usual efficient town away performance. If hurst had been reckless and had been sacked he'd have been lucky to get a job at helper town,let alone a pro job.as it stands now he would be top of the list for any conference job and if you were tranmere or Hartlepool and being relegated you'd deffo be looking at hurst as the man to steady the ship and get them back up

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I think that the last 10 years has proved that there's a big difference between running a fish company and running a football club.

But if you look thoughout our history you will find there has been many leading fish merchants, builders , electrical contractors and grocers on the Board or as Chairmen. What background does qualify in making you an ideal person to run a football club? The analogy I used was only to point out that constantly missing targets in managing a football club should carry the same penalty as missing your production targets in a manufacturing environment - replacement.

Hurst half time team talk, ( not )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im85NY4NKt4

Quoted from rancido

But if you look thoughout our history you will find there has been many leading fish merchants, builders , electrical contractors and grocers on the Board or as Chairmen. What background does qualify in making you an ideal person to run a football club? The analogy I used was only to point out that constantly missing targets in managing a football club should carry the same penalty as missing your production targets in a manufacturing environment - replacement.

Any business replaces anyone not doing their job properly, right from the very top, look at Tesco!

Quoted from arryarryarry

If we had sacked Woods during that long run without a win then I believe we would have stayed up but we didn't and the rest as they say is history.

Well, I never thought Woods was a good appointment in the first place, especially after his failure during the period as caretaker manager. That said, I'm not convinced getting rid of him later in the season would have brought about any great improvement as the squad he had built really was very poor with the defence especially weak.

Quoted from forza ivano

Found myself nodding in agreement. I don't think it'd be wise to get rid of him now and I don't think his record necessarily deserves it. No doubt we will fail miserably in the play offs again and that would be the time to do the deed

In that case, it should have been done in May 2014 as some of us said then.

Quoted from forza ivano

I don't think that's going to happen. Hurst is a safety first man. I have this theory. This is hursts one and only chance as a manager and therefore his professional and financial future depends on him not getting sacked after a disastrous season. If hurst had been sacked in the first 6-12 months he was unlikely to get any sort of job, especially as his sidekick scott was practically unemployable.therefore he depended on percentages and playing it safe to do th best he could.he now has got himself in the groove where if he plays the percentages allied with the money that we've got, the quality of the players and the fact we're full time then he's more or less guaranteed to be in or around the play offs. Suppose he gets sacked in six months ,he can now point to three play offs, a trophy final and trophy semi final and he's established himself as a successful conference manger so he's not going to find himself out of work for very long.
And of course one season he might just fluke it and get us through the play offs! I don't think it will happen and I think JF will say bye bye in the summer and move on. That will be a because he's had enough chances and b because his unsealing style will start to affect attendances and therefore bottom line

Put another way, you seem to be saying Hurst is not attractive to other clubs. I disagree, but he just isn't good enough for us in our promotion push.

Quoted from ginnywings

Yes, EY mariner makes some very good points and i gave him a +, even though i don't entirely agree with his post as it only tells the stats. It doesn't tell of the dire way those points were achieved and the alienation the fans feel toward Hurst and the club at the moment.

I accept that some fans are happy just to get the points by any means necessary, but for me his whole footballing philosophy goes against the grain and is painful to watch.

If he takes us up via the play offs, then fair enough, job done. I don't think he will though. The lottery of the play offs seems to be the aim, when we should be challenging harder for the title. It's all very deja vu.

Ultimately, this is a results business and that is what Hurst should be judged on at the appropriate moment. This is football, not ski jumping. You do not get style marks in football and, given the rows you get in other, more subjective, sports about judging, perhaps we should be grateful for that.

To me, it's not about playing in the so-called "right way." It's about playing in the way that best suits the players we have at our disposal. Some of the best, most exciting football I've seen from a Town side came in the early part of Russell Slade's tenure at the club. Where did it get us? Absolutely nowhere. It was only when we went to a more direct, less aesthetically pleasing, style of play that we could, and really should, have won promotion from League Two.

Under Hurst, we are an effective, top-end Conference side. Only time will tell whether that will be enough this season and it will probably be the end of him here if it's not. But I think it would be far too big a risk to sack him now.

Very very well said Al

Quoted from EY Mariner

Ultimately, this is a results business and that is what Hurst should be judged on at the appropriate moment. This is football, not ski jumping. You do not get style marks in football and, given the rows you get in other, more subjective, sports about judging, perhaps we should be grateful for that.

To me, it's not about playing in the so-called "right way." It's about playing in the way that best suits the players we have at our disposal. Some of the best, most exciting football I've seen from a Town side came in the early part of Russell Slade's tenure at the club. Where did it get us? Absolutely nowhere. It was only when we went to a more direct, less aesthetically pleasing, style of play that we could, and really should, have won promotion from League Two.

Under Hurst, we are an effective, top-end Conference side. Only time will tell whether that will be enough this season and it will probably be the end of him here if it's not. But I think it would be far too big a risk to sack him now.

Sign different types of player then.

We can argue all day about the merits or otherwise of different playing styles, but for me, we are very boring under Hurst and i wasn't a fan of Slade either after he re-invented us.

Each to their own.

Quoted from ginnywings

We can argue all day about the merits or otherwise of different playing styles, but for me, we are very boring under Hurst and i wasn't a fan of Slade either after he re-invented us.

Each to their own.

Are you a fan of winning? I certainly prefer that to losing and, given we tend to win a lot more than we lose under Hurst, I would rather have him in charge than any of the three previous solo incumbents of his job and I'm far from convinced that any of those who are regularly mentioned here as alternatives would do any better.

We don't win 'a lot' more than we lose at home.

Quoted from EY Mariner

Are you a fan of winning? I certainly prefer that to losing and, given we tend to win a lot more than we lose under Hurst, I would rather have him in charge than any of the three previous solo incumbents of his job and I'm far from convinced that any of those who are regularly mentioned here as alternatives would do any better.

He might be better than those 3 but that's a bit of faint praise isn't it?

I put several posts on here when we first got relegated saying that I didn't care what style of play we used as long as we got promoted asap. I will stick with that. A winning team brings back the crowds as well but only if they can see that the side is winning to a plan and leaving the opposition to do the worrying.

Strikes me that a fair few of the good results have come in spite of the way the team played, not because of it. Hurst's football philosophy is fragile, it doesn't inspire confidence in the way John Still does for instance. There is no Hurst's Way of playing, it just meanders about from passing game at one minute to hoofing the next, tight marking to dropping off. We play holding midfielders at home and a Lincoln player has acres of room to wham a super strike from 30 odd yards .......

If he does have a philosophy he is clearly not communicating it well enough to the players because when the going gets tough in a football sense they either don't know what to do or lose the will to do it and he is left complaining to Tondeur that they haven't passed it well enough, didn't control it well enough and so on.

It's interesting to look back through the game highlights on the OS. There is no consistent pattern of play and that's what you need for promotion. As I say, it doesn't bother me particularly what that pattern is as long as it gets us out of this league. Plenty of time to worry about pretty football later on.

Quoted from EY Mariner

Are you a fan of winning? I certainly prefer that to losing and, given we tend to win a lot more than we lose under Hurst, I would rather have him in charge than any of the three previous solo incumbents of his job and I'm far from convinced that any of those who are regularly mentioned here as alternatives would do any better.

I'm a football fan. Make of that what you will.

As i say, each to their own.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Put another way, you seem to be saying Hurst is not attractive to other clubs. I disagree, but he just isn't good enough for us in our promotion push.

No I'm saying he is making himself into a very consistently successful conference manager.if he gets us to trophy semi finals and into the play offs he can demonstrate 3 seasons of consistently high achievement and will be at the top of any list when any top conference side want a new manager.
Fwiw I agree with ginny (?) who said that he s cruising or bumbling along at par.

Quoted from forza ivano

No I'm saying he is making himself into a very consistently successful conference manager.if he gets us to trophy semi finals and into the play offs he can demonstrate 3 seasons of consistently high achievement and will be at the top of any list when any top conference side want a new manager.
Fwiw I agree with ginny (?) who said that he s cruising or bumbling along at par.

I did say that. I don't think he is doing anything that any competent coach couldn't do with the resources at hand but what we need is someone who can get that extra 10-15% out of players, which turns defeats into draws and draws into wins.

I cannot believe that we are still so poor in attack after all the time he's had to remedy the problem.

Steve Bruce said after Hulls win over Everton that " you are only as good as your strikers".