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Posted by: WappingMariner, November 21, 2014, 9:08pm
If I had more time (i.e less time in the pub tonight) to do the relevant research, I'd already have come to a conclusion. I would like to know where those 14,225 fans who watched Grimsby beat Exeter in 1991 at Blundell Park have gone? Twenty-four years later we have an average gate of 3/4k and that only swells when we play in a local derby (Lincoln or Scunthorpe).

Is the reason the cost of going nowadays? Have those who were at the game in 1991 lost interest? Have people found better things to do with their time?

Personally, I can't think of doing anything other than watching Town on a Saturday. Is that the general consensus?
Posted by: Fcukthescunts, November 21, 2014, 9:11pm; Reply: 1
I would say a lot down to cost I would say
Posted by: cleethorpes_mariner, November 21, 2014, 9:22pm; Reply: 2
I would put it down to Glory hunters now going to watch Ull , Man U and the like
easier to travel to games than 20 years ago on top of that TV has games on most nights so easier to get your football fix
Posted by: WappingMariner, November 21, 2014, 9:24pm; Reply: 3
How much was it to watch Town in 1991?
Posted by: Les Brechin, November 21, 2014, 9:26pm; Reply: 4
I think 1991 is the key part.

The Premier League and Sky Sports have done a great job of killing watching football live. Back then if you wanted to watch football you had to get off your bottom and get down to your local ground. These days there so much football on TV then a lot of people are quite satisfied vegging at home or in the pub watching.

[img]http://cdn3.volusion.com/vlexv.nwmdm/v/vspfiles/photos/SKY10-2.jpg?1391674759[/img]
Posted by: Fishfinger, November 21, 2014, 9:31pm; Reply: 5
You've got no fans



















;)
Posted by: 2578 (Guest), November 21, 2014, 9:34pm; Reply: 6
I think it's mainly down to performances and league positions, I think back in the 60s we was only averaging just over 2000 at least one season, success breads interest  if we verge on promotion towards the end of season expect to see at least 5-6000 at the park no problem.
Posted by: codcheeky, November 21, 2014, 9:36pm; Reply: 7
Quoted from WappingMariner
If I had more time (i.e less time in the pub tonight) to do the relevant research, I'd already have come to a conclusion. I would like to know where those 14,225 fans who watched Grimsby beat Exeter in 1991 at Blundell Park have gone? Twenty-four years later we have an average gate of 3/4k and that only swells when we play in a local derby (Lincoln or Scunthorpe).

Is the reason the cost of going nowadays? Have those who were at the game in 1991 lost interest? Have people found better things to do with their time?

Personally, I can't think of doing anything other than watching Town on a Saturday. Is that the general consensus?


This is not a true comparison, the Exeter game was a end of season promotion celebration, I`m sure if we need to win the last home game this season to be champions it will be a full house at BP
Posted by: 75 (Guest), November 21, 2014, 9:36pm; Reply: 8
Quoted from Fishfinger
You've got no fans ;)


Wansum?
Posted by: promotion plaice, November 21, 2014, 9:37pm; Reply: 9
I would put it down to a lot of fans remembering Town when they played at a lot higher level, with larger crowds, better opposition and higher quality of football, then gradually drifting away under the alarming decline over the last decade, waiting for the club to rise again, and then return to watch their heroes play at the level of football they believe Town should be playing at.
Posted by: cmackenzie4, November 21, 2014, 9:37pm; Reply: 10
I would make a lot more games if i wasn't a shift worker, i work three Saturdays out of four so it can be quite difficult for me, i still manage to get to between 12 -15 games a season though due to taking leave.
Posted by: GrimRob, November 21, 2014, 9:42pm; Reply: 11
We've actually bucked the trend because attendances have gone up nationwide during the same period I think. I think the biggest factor is money, we are competing with areas of the country where people on average have more disposable income to spend on things like football.
Posted by: WappingMariner, November 21, 2014, 9:43pm; Reply: 12
Quoted from codcheeky


This is not a true comparison, the Exeter game was a end of season promotion celebration, I`m sure if we need to win the last home game this season to be champions it will be a full house at BP


Are you sure about that? Agreed it's difficult to compare, but when Town played Gateshead at home in the first play-off semi the attendance was only 5,234.
Posted by: WappingMariner, November 21, 2014, 9:43pm; Reply: 13
Quoted from 75


Wansum?


I'll give it ya.
Posted by: GrimRob, November 21, 2014, 9:44pm; Reply: 14
Quoted from WappingMariner


Are you sure about that? Agreed it's difficult to compare, but when Town played Gateshead at home in the first play-off semi the attendance was only 5,234.


The only way we'll fill BP is if we play a PL side in the cup and there seems little prospect of that for some time.
Posted by: codcheeky, November 21, 2014, 10:04pm; Reply: 15
Quoted from WappingMariner


Are you sure about that? Agreed it's difficult to compare, but when Town played Gateshead at home in the first play-off semi the attendance was only 5,234.


The Exeter game wasn`t a play off but a game to get us into what is now the championship, I honestly think that if we have that chance to win this league in our last home game it will sell out
Posted by: Fcukthescunts, November 21, 2014, 10:19pm; Reply: 16
Also we could stand and congregate where we wanted also a lot easier paying on gate
Posted by: petethemariner, November 21, 2014, 10:50pm; Reply: 17
Got to be honest, i'm struggling to understand the question, our home gates  after 4 seasons non league  have more
or less been on par with those when we were still a league 2 FL club and i am old enough to remember FL gates  much less,
i think that considering some of  the stuff we have been served up over those years its a testimony to the loyalty of our fans that
we  are consistently in the top three average home gates and i would suggest that considering our geographical position
our away support betters anyones in this league.
Posted by: cardiffmariner, November 21, 2014, 10:57pm; Reply: 18
Quoted from GrimRob
We've actually bucked the trend because attendances have gone up nationwide during the same period I think. I think the biggest factor is money, we are competing with areas of the country where people on average have more disposable income to spend on things like football.


It's not money, it's success.  Fans of this club have been beaten into the ground over the last 12 years. Far worse than it ever got in the late 80s. Given time, success and good football (ala Buckley's time) you would see crowds like 91 again - ground permitting.
Posted by: immariner, November 21, 2014, 11:35pm; Reply: 19
Quoted from 2578
I think it's mainly down to performances and league positions, I think back in the 60s we was only averaging just over 2000 at least one season, success breads interest  if we verge on promotion towards the end of season expect to see at least 5-6000 at the park no problem.


I don't know if I completely agree with that. It was less than a decade later that we were getting sub 5000 home attendances in the Championship, only 1000-1500 more than we get now.
Posted by: cod_head_doug, November 22, 2014, 12:29am; Reply: 20
Its a mixture of things, as always. Of the five of us who were season ticket holders in 1991, two have passed away, one has emigrated and one has fallen on hard times and cannot afford it any more. I am the only one left.
We despirately need to keep the kids coming along, as they are the future.
What is the average age of a Town fan? Around me in the Lower it seems as we are all reaching or have reached retirement age.
Another thing, there seems to be more women now then 25 years ago.
Posted by: Abdul19, November 22, 2014, 1:56am; Reply: 21
In September 1996 4089 attended our Championship clash with Swindon.

I'm guessing a fair proportion  of those people still go.
Posted by: GrimRob, November 22, 2014, 6:08am; Reply: 22
Quoted from cardiffmariner


It's not money, it's success.  Fans of this club have been beaten into the ground over the last 12 years. Far worse than it ever got in the late 80s. Given time, success and good football (ala Buckley's time) you would see crowds like 91 again - ground permitting.


Well most of the 90s were very successful (admittedly not challenging for promotion most of the time) but we were struggling to get 5000 home supporters for most of them. We probably have a pool of maybe 10,000 supporters but no matter how well we do they are never going to come to every game.
Posted by: cardiffmariner, November 22, 2014, 8:39am; Reply: 23
Quoted from GrimRob


Well most of the 90s were very successful (admittedly not challenging for promotion most of the time) but we were struggling to get 5000 home supporters for most of them. We probably have a pool of maybe 10,000 supporters but no matter how well we do they are never going to come to every game.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting for one minute that we're capable of ever getting 14,000 on a regular basis, but with some sustained success at a higher level, there's no reason an Exeter type game could  not attract a full house.  My point is that by and large the crowd (however big/small) is dictated more by what happens on the pitch than what's in someone's wallet.

10,000 seems a rather arbitrary figure for our 'pool' of fans.  We've shown we can take anywhere between 15-30,000 for a 'major' final yet average 3-5,000 for most games regardless of what league we are in.
Posted by: Meza, November 22, 2014, 9:14am; Reply: 24
Im sure we had packed games against Stoke and Bradford during 89-90 season.
Posted by: Meza, November 22, 2014, 9:25am; Reply: 25
Interesting attendance stats here

[url]http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/grit.htm[/url]

So before 1960 attendances exceeded 10k & early 80s were also avg 10k.  Some good attendances during 91 we avg 7k.  Successive relegations has certainly forced people away probably not hard core fans.  I know a few people who attend a small amount of games but state if a new stadium was built they would buy a ST.
Posted by: moosey_club, November 22, 2014, 9:31am; Reply: 26
Quoted from WappingMariner
If I had more time (i.e less time in the pub tonight) to do the relevant research, I'd already have come to a conclusion. I would like to know where those 14,225 fans who watched Grimsby beat Exeter in 1991 at Blundell Park have gone? Twenty-four years later we have an average gate of 3/4k and that only swells when we play in a local derby (Lincoln or Scunthorpe).

Is the reason the cost of going nowadays? Have those who were at the game in 1991 lost interest? Have people found better things to do with their time?

Personally, I can't think of doing anything other than watching Town on a Saturday. Is that the general consensus?


Up until this season i couldnt either, but i have chosen not to go to a few home games this season largely due to the largely unattractive football being served by either side, uninspiring words of the manager, fear of suffocation in the zero atmosphere and just succumbing to the general apathy that has risen due to our continued position at this level.
I think if you went through the history books i would wager that crowd fluctuations follow the same pattern, a rise when doing well, flatlining when finding a level and falling with continued stability at any level. Sounds obvious really when put like that but we are now in 5th (?) season of this league and rarely in the modern era have we spent that long in any division.
Its boring and people dont want to waste at least £20 (inc matchday purchases) to be bored for a couple of hours do they?
Taking out the Alfreton game...how many games have actually been exciting, thrilling or engaging to watch?
Posted by: fleabag1970, November 22, 2014, 9:35am; Reply: 27
You only have to look up the road at Doncaster they are down to  6/7 k in their pretty new ground . I think we do very well to get what we do with littler or no away support .
The big problem GTFC had in the championship was the away support , our away end went from holding 5k to 1.8k after going all seater . That is alot of lost revenue when the big teams come to visit .

How did Scunny get away with not being all seater ??? the spent 3 seasons in there !! However i know for a fact that Scunny lost alot of money because the away end was all seater .

If it ever happens and we get the 14k all seater then i could see gtfc being out supported when  the big teams come , if we let them have the tickets .

Posted by: Meza, November 22, 2014, 9:37am; Reply: 28
Quoted from moosey_club


Up until this season i couldnt either, but i have chosen not to go to a few home games this season largely due to the largely unattractive football being served by either side, uninspiring words of the manager, fear of suffocation in the zero atmosphere and just succumbing to the general apathy that has risen due to our continued position at this level.
I think if you went through the history books i would wager that crowd fluctuations follow the same pattern, a rise when doing well, flatlining when finding a level and falling with continued stability at any level. Sounds obvious really when put like that but we are now in 5th (?) season of this league and rarely in the modern era have we spent that long in any division.
Its boring and people dont want to waste at least £20 (inc matchday purchases) to be bored for a couple of hours do they?
Taking out the Alfreton game...how many games have actually been exciting, thrilling or engaging to watch?


Obviously following town is not enough and the standard or type of opposition seems to play a big part.  
Posted by: GrimRob, November 22, 2014, 9:43am; Reply: 29
Quoted from Meza
Interesting attendance stats here

[url]http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/grit.htm[/url]


Juxtapose that with the English averages

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm

1991 was almost a nadir for English attendances straight after Heysel and pre-Taylor. Football was not fashionable then like it is now. Since then attendances have risen by over 50% and yet we have headed in the opposite direction. We have also dropped down the leagues partly because a lot of other teams have caught up with us and passed us financially, rather than it being exclusively down to mismanagement and poor leadership on our part, as is often asserted.

I would say four things have really damanged us during this time.

1. All-seaster stadia. It costs more to stand and that's priced some people out of regularly attending, although they might come along to the odd big game.
2, Bosman. We used to make money by selling players, sadly we can't do that hardly ever now. We also used to hang on to players for much longer. Because of our geographical position it's hard to attract players and this is more of a factor when you have to recruit lots of players every season, rather than one or two as used to happen in the "old days".
3, ITV Digital. This happened at the worst possible time for us when we were in the Championship and it took several years to recover from, during which we dropped down the leagues. Although this was a one-off event it probably was more important than 1 and 2 for a few years.
4. Blundell Park. Could we average 5000 in a new stadium? I'd like to think so. BP is ok for the diehards but we really need to attract those "floating" fans who can afford to go, or people who don't go at all now but might do in a more modern family-friendly arena.
Posted by: immariner, November 22, 2014, 10:18am; Reply: 30
Town need to do anything and everything to get junior fans in, it can't be stressed any more simply than that.
Posted by: ginnywings, November 22, 2014, 10:38am; Reply: 31
Quoted from moosey_club


Up until this season i couldnt either, but i have chosen not to go to a few home games this season largely due to the largely unattractive football being served by either side, uninspiring words of the manager, fear of suffocation in the zero atmosphere and just succumbing to the general apathy that has risen due to our continued position at this level.
I think if you went through the history books i would wager that crowd fluctuations follow the same pattern, a rise when doing well, flatlining when finding a level and falling with continued stability at any level. Sounds obvious really when put like that but we are now in 5th (?) season of this league and rarely in the modern era have we spent that long in any division.
Its boring and people dont want to waste at least £20 (inc matchday purchases) to be bored for a couple of hours do they?
Taking out the Alfreton game...how many games have actually been exciting, thrilling or engaging to watch?


That's how i feel. This league is bad enough without having an ultra cautious manager who is happy with 4-5-1 and winning 1-0. Finding it a struggle to drag myself to BP nowadays but will be there today. A lot of people who attended regularly with me no longer go.
Posted by: Rick12, November 22, 2014, 10:57am; Reply: 32
Shame the club has lost so many fans. Admittedly people will naturally want to gravitate to success and if the team aren't doing well some fans will come and go.Which is why I respect the loyal fans who stick through thick and thin.True fans who are proud to be supporting a club true to their roots
Posted by: chiangmaimariner, November 22, 2014, 10:58am; Reply: 33
Feel the same way as ginnywings and moosey_club. The only people turning up to BP are die-hard Grimsby Town fans.
Football fans (whom we might theoretically attract) have much easier, cheaper and more comfortable ways to indulge
their habit, watching a higher standard of football on TV.

Have to agree that PH is over-cautious: we're setting up to play in a way that leaves McKeown with a couple of saves to
make in a match.  Against inferior opposition generally. We may or may not get a goal.

Not decrying the man for this - our unbeaten 9 match run has seen us rise to second place in the league. He's probably
doing the best thing to get us promoted out of this league...BUT...it's boring to watch (mostly).

Have got a ST but most unlikely I shall be able to summon the enthusiasm to watch the football at BP this afternoon.  :-/
Posted by: fleabag1970, November 23, 2014, 2:05pm; Reply: 34
Yesterday was a very good reason why fans are not turning up to BP .  We are now down to the bare bones of supporters 3400 on a good day 2500 on a bad day ..........  i believe even if we go up the crowds wont , just not the style of football that brings people to matches .  I believe we will go up this season btw
Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, November 23, 2014, 2:28pm; Reply: 35
It is down to results more than anything. If you look at Meza's link there are two huge jumps in 1971/2 and 1979/80 coinciding with the McMenemy  years and the Kerr/Booth years. Then again in the Buckley years. Success brings in the punters eventually but punters do not bring success.

That's what annoys me about posts that urge supporters to get behind the team as though this will miraculously blow the ball into the net. It doesn't work like that, it never has worked like that and it never will work like that. The responsibility for getting bums on seats lies with the manager and the team, not the supporters. Fans are followers not leaders. There's a message in this thread somewhere for Mr Hurst.
Posted by: Marinerz93, November 23, 2014, 2:56pm; Reply: 36
1. Current level of football,
2. Current level of expectation of what this current squad is capable of,
3. Transport, fans from Brigg, Barnetby and other places had a bus dedicated for fans and free,
4. Great time of year to earn a lot of money through work and over time.
Posted by: nightrider, November 23, 2014, 3:23pm; Reply: 37
I remember us getting 4,000-5,000 in the championship. Most games seemed to attract around 5,500.
So take into account the away fans and were getting what, 1500 less?
Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, November 23, 2014, 3:41pm; Reply: 38
Quoted from fleabag1970
Yesterday was a very good reason why fans are not turning up to BP .  We are now down to the bare bones of supporters 3400 on a good day 2500 on a bad day ..........  i believe even if we go up the crowds wont , just not the style of football that brings people to matches .  I believe we will go up this season btw


I can see what you mean but the style of play is only seen by the people who are at BP to see it. Maybe some of them might be fed up and stop going but that is dribs and drabs. The style of play is something that keeps existing fans rather than attracts new or old ones to cough up cash to come. People who have not been for months or years are not really affected by how the team play -  they only see the results and they only see the league table and they only see that the next game could be close to a promotion winner. That's why there is a delay between success and bigger crowds. The early crowds in 1971/2 were quite small but by the end of that season were massive. Same in 1978-80. Diehard fans go whatever the weather or the opposition or the style of play but the bulk of customers are never diehards.

Posted by: grimsby pete, November 23, 2014, 4:12pm; Reply: 39
Nobody want to go and watch boring football,

A 1-0 win against a lowly side is a result for Hurst,

Well it isn't for most fans,

Fans will flock back to Blundell Park if we start playing fast attractive football,

Sadly we will not get that with Hurst in charge,

Some fans say we have only lost our 1st game in nine,

So why did we only get 3,446 at the match yesterday,

2nd in the table , 8 games unbeaten and the fans are still staying away,

I wonder why ?
Posted by: rancido, November 23, 2014, 4:17pm; Reply: 40
Quoted from 672[b
]Nobody want to go and watch boring football,

A 1-0 win against a lowly side is a result for Hurst,
[/b]
Well it isn't for most fans,

Fans will flock back to Blundell Park if we start playing fast attractive football,

Sadly we will not get that with Hurst in charge,

Some fans say we have only lost our 1st game in nine,

So why did we only get 3,446 at the match yesterday,

2nd in the table , 8 games unbeaten and the fans are still staying away,

I wonder why ?



But would you advocate boring 1-0 wins to get out of this league? I know this doesn't answer where the fans have gone but just a sensible question to the point you raised.
Posted by: grimsby pete, November 23, 2014, 4:20pm; Reply: 41
Quoted from rancido



But would you advocate boring 1-0 wins to get out of this league? I know this doesn't answer where the fans have gone but just a sensible question to the point you raised.


Yes I would except it if we got promoted,

BUT

We will not get promoted winning less than half of our home games, will we ?

Halfway through the season and we have failed to win 6 games at home that was winnable.
Posted by: DocTower, November 23, 2014, 4:28pm; Reply: 42
Quoted from Fcukthescunts
I would say a lot down to cost I would say


£ 16-00 entry
£ 40 -00 fuel   ( to Gy and back ) 240  miles
£ 10 -00 programme , fish and chips
Plus added to that 10 hours out of the day .
So my friend spent £ 66-00  yesterday . Question is was it worth it ?  Is he in a rush to return  ?  
Value for money ? It's hard enough for the locals to watch passionless displays , but to have to drive back home 120 odd miles after it makes it worse .
Posted by: promotion plaice, November 23, 2014, 4:32pm; Reply: 43
Quoted from nightrider
I remember us getting 4,000-5,000 in the championship. Most games seemed to attract around 5,500.
So take into account the away fans and were getting what, 1500 less?




http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/england/aveeng1981.htm

Posted by: grimsby pete, November 23, 2014, 4:32pm; Reply: 44
Quoted from DocTower


£ 16-00 entry
£ 40 -00 fuel   ( to Gy and back ) 240  miles
£ 10 -00 programme , fish and chips
Plus added to that 10 hours out of the day .
So my friend spent £ 66-00  yesterday . Question is was it worth it ?  Is he in a rush to return  ?  
Value for money ? It's hard enough for the locals to watch passionless displays , but to have to drive back home 120 odd miles after it makes it worse .



£18  entry
£40  fuel
£13  programme   Fish and chips ( jumbo )

£71    Beat you  :P
Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, November 23, 2014, 4:50pm; Reply: 45
Quoted from grimsby pete
Nobody want to go and watch boring football,

A 1-0 win against a lowly side is a result for Hurst,

Well it isn't for most fans,

Fans will flock back to Blundell Park if we start playing fast attractive football,

Sadly we will not get that with Hurst in charge,

Some fans say we have only lost our 1st game in nine,

So why did we only get 3,446 at the match yesterday,

2nd in the table , 8 games unbeaten and the fans are still staying away,

I wonder why ?


Maybe because it's only November Pete and because Town has had these little runs before in this past few seasons and it has always ended in tears. If we went 20 games unbeaten and were winning almost every home game and were clear at the top of this crappy league then I think people would come back to BP regardless of the style.
Posted by: DocTower, November 23, 2014, 7:55pm; Reply: 46
Quoted from grimsby pete



£18  entry
£40  fuel
£13  programme   Fish and chips ( jumbo )

£71    Beat you  :P


Alan did get 2 lottery tickets , thst brings it to £ 72 -00  .
Posted by: LookBackInAngers, November 23, 2014, 8:02pm; Reply: 47
Crowd numbers have held up better than I thought they would after four seasons non league.There are Division 1 "clubs  " who get smaller attendances regularly,and are away support is by and large excellent especially considering where we end up going(Braintree/Nuneatonetc).
Posted by: Teesknees, November 23, 2014, 8:07pm; Reply: 48
Quoted from WappingMariner
If I had more time (i.e less time in the pub tonight) to do the relevant research, I'd already have come to a conclusion. I would like to know where those 14,225 fans who watched Grimsby beat Exeter in 1991 at Blundell Park have gone? Twenty-four years later we have an average gate of 3/4k and that only swells when we play in a local derby (Lincoln or Scunthorpe).

Is the reason the cost of going nowadays? Have those who were at the game in 1991 lost interest? Have people found better things to do with their time?

Personally, I can't think of doing anything other than watching Town on a Saturday. Is that the general consensus?


Some will have died, it's debatable where they've gone!

Posted by: GrimRob, November 23, 2014, 8:11pm; Reply: 49
Quoted from grimsby pete
Nobody want to go and watch boring football,

A 1-0 win against a lowly side is a result for Hurst,

Well it isn't for most fans,

Fans will flock back to Blundell Park if we start playing fast attractive football,

Sadly we will not get that with Hurst in charge,

Some fans say we have only lost our 1st game in nine,

So why did we only get 3,446 at the match yesterday,

2nd in the table , 8 games unbeaten and the fans are still staying away,

I wonder why ?


This is a total and utter myth and I'm astounded that anyone can persists in it when there's not a shred of evidence that it's true. We have the whole AB eras as a case study. Crowds were low in the Championship (5000s), yes higher than now but not that much when you take into account the level we were playing at and the away crowd. We got nearly as many in 2006 when Slade nearly got us promoted as we did in the late Championship seasons. The reason why is we were at the top of the table, A few people complained about the style then but they still came, as did hundreds of others who didn't complain.

In my view the main factors which affect the gate at any club are:

1. League position (people want to watch a winning side whatever the division).
2. Cost (people on low incomes can't afford to go to every game)
3. Who the opposition are. Big clubs bring fans, they also draw out the home crowd.
4. League. Every time you drop a division you will lose some of the home crowd. This is especially true higher up.

Style of football is of course a factor but very much a secondary one. Most people go home happy if their team has won however it was achieved. Obviously you'll get a few more if you play attractive football but you'll get a lot more if you win nearly every week.

If you look at page 245 of Soccernomics there is a long discussion of this subject with a case study of Bristol City.
Posted by: TheRonRaffertyFanClub, November 23, 2014, 8:41pm; Reply: 50
Quoted from GrimRob


This is a total and utter myth and I'm astounded that anyone can persists in it when there's not a shred of evidence that it's true. We have the whole AB eras as a case study. Crowds were low in the Championship (5000s), yes higher than now but that much when you take into account the level we were playing at and the away crowd. We got nearly as many in 2006 when Slade nearly got us promoted as we did in the late Championship seasons. The reason why is we were at the top of the table, A few people complained about the style then but they still came, as did hundreds of others who didn't complain.

In my view the main factors which affect the gate at any club are:

1. League position (people want to watch a winning side whatever the division).
2. Cost (people on low incomes can't afford to go to every game)
3. Who the opposition are. Big clubs bring fans, they also draw out the home crowd.
4. League. Every time you drop a division you will lose some of the home crowd. This is especially true higher up.

Style of football is of course a factor but very much a secondary one. Most people go home happy if their team has won however it was achieved. Obviously you'll get a few more if you play attractive football but you'll get a lot more if you win nearly every week.

If you look at page 245 of Soccernomics there is a long discussion of this subject with a case study of Bristol City.


For once I find myself in agreement with you Rob. ;)
Posted by: denni266, November 23, 2014, 8:42pm; Reply: 51
£18 is a lot for a lot of people, and to many that do like there footie this £18 can buy half a weeks food . personaly i wont pay that to watch the drab football that is served up by hurst. I want to be entertained and enjoy my time out the house , not come home feeling let down time and time again. For £18 i can have 3 full days fishing , and before anyone says it, that is what i do.. at the moment...and i am sure that others  do something simular.  I have been watching town since the early 60`s and have seen some bad times but this is the worst, and i am not wasting my money on football any more untill things change
Posted by: mariner91, November 23, 2014, 9:12pm; Reply: 52
Quoted from GrimRob


This is a total and utter myth and I'm astounded that anyone can persists in it when there's not a shred of evidence that it's true. We have the whole AB eras as a case study. Crowds were low in the Championship (5000s), yes higher than now but not that much when you take into account the level we were playing at and the away crowd. We got nearly as many in 2006 when Slade nearly got us promoted as we did in the late Championship seasons. The reason why is we were at the top of the table, A few people complained about the style then but they still came, as did hundreds of others who didn't complain.

In my view the main factors which affect the gate at any club are:

1. League position (people want to watch a winning side whatever the division).
2. Cost (people on low incomes can't afford to go to every game)
3. Who the opposition are. Big clubs bring fans, they also draw out the home crowd.
4. League. Every time you drop a division you will lose some of the home crowd. This is especially true higher up.

Style of football is of course a factor but very much a secondary one. Most people go home happy if their team has won however it was achieved. Obviously you'll get a few more if you play attractive football but you'll get a lot more if you win nearly every week.

If you look at page 245 of Soccernomics there is a long discussion of this subject with a case study of Bristol City.


Slade's two seasons show this perfectly. In his first season, although people seem to have forgotten it, we played some really lovely football at times but struggled in the league and the crowds were much lower than when we played Slade ball and were winning most games.
Posted by: realist, November 23, 2014, 11:41pm; Reply: 53
There are many factors involved here. A win didn't always sent me home happy if they played poorly - I have seen some dire displays that have somehow got the win.  I have gone home happy after a battling defeat by a better team as long as they tried their best. I can never be happy with the standard and tactics that is served at the moment regardless of our league position.
My family like to go to a match with me, so after drinks, fish and chips it costs me nearly £100 to watch this rubbish. We have started going to the Tilted Barrel every other home game instead.  We spend a fraction of the amount attending the match and always leave happy. Soon we will lose the habit of going to the match completely. My mates only go because they have season tickets but are talking of giving up soon. I think the undercurrent could lead to a huge sudden fall in attendance if the customers are not entertained.
Posted by: fleabag1970, November 24, 2014, 8:22am; Reply: 54
Like all Businesses , Some of the customers will have died , some will have gone to our competitors , some will be trying something new , some will be short of money .............................
  One thing is for sure to keep telling the faithful that are left to keep quite and not complain will not help boost the crowds .  There is a Dark Cloud over BP , it moves from time to time but it is never far away .  8)
Posted by: GorgeousGeorge, November 24, 2014, 9:25am; Reply: 55
Maybe someone's desire not to devalue the product has managed to do the exact opposite.  It isn't about money with me, I'll pay whatever it costs to be entertained.  Sadly I don't feel entertained by somebody who hits on a winning formula then changes it.  I don't feel entertained by somebody who after three years displays zero tactical nous.  However the final nail in the coffin is that for some strange reason, that same somebody seems to think it's the fault of the fans.  Quite frankly I've had enough, I'm not short of a few quid but that's no excuse to waste it where it isn't appreciated.  :(
Posted by: biggles9999, November 24, 2014, 12:11pm; Reply: 56
Im not convinced this thing about Sky killing football, it may have contributed to high prices however, but I dont think that many fans stay in to watch it rather than attend a game simply because it is on TV. In Germany you can view any Saturday kick off (2:30pm instead of 3pm) live on TV and yet their attendances are higher now than they were around 8 -10 years ago.

This is likely down to the relative costs.

On a personal note at GTFC I have stopped attending as much when they removed the free kids ticket in the Main Stand. I dont have huge amounts of money available and the additional £7 a week makes it a little OTT when theres a chance they will get bored and restless anyway at the run of the mill games - despite my daughter liking football and the atmosphere.
Posted by: horsforthmariner, November 24, 2014, 12:35pm; Reply: 57
We never used to get much more than 5k in the 2nd tier so to be only 1500 down three tiers lower isn't bad.

3 things that put people off.
1. Rubbish football who really wants to see Halifax or Gateshead beat up our players for 90 minutes.
2. Blundell Park which is a rubbish stadium and freezing.
3. The prices - I wonder if we put our prices down to a tenner if we would see big increases in attendances. To be fair the club may have used complex computer programmes to work out the optimum ticket price and if that's the case fair play.
Posted by: JMT, November 24, 2014, 12:51pm; Reply: 58
Surprisingly in our relegation season we managed to average 4,428..

not too bad tbh.
Posted by: mariner91, November 24, 2014, 1:07pm; Reply: 59
Quoted from JMT
Surprisingly in our relegation season we managed to average 4,428..

not too bad tbh.


Not surprising at all. Crowds turn out for the big games and when you're battling relegation from the FL there are some very big games to be played.
Posted by: NorthseaMariner, November 24, 2014, 1:45pm; Reply: 60
It's a very complex issue.
I would say, I used to go with a lot of my mates, when I was in my early twenties. Now in my sixties, I don,t see many twenty something's there. Why? I'm not sure, maybe Sky, maybe not. The town no longer has many of that age due to lack of good jobs as kids now go to Uni and never come back. I think this is crucial.

Back when we had big crowds, we had an exciting team and a carismatic manager like Macmenemy, who played the media and got people interested and the team did the rest.

Personnaly I didn't find Bucley's team exciting, they passed the ball to death for me and I think that's why we didn't get larger crowds then.

Back to today. Well e play very defencively and the manager doesn't talk the team up. For me that's a failing. We are in a poor league playing teams we would have been embarrassed to be playing a few years ago and we often struggle to beat. Eventually people say " I've had enough of being frustrated watching town and being depressed on a Saturday night. So stay away and find they don't miss it.
Posted by: devon mariner, November 24, 2014, 2:37pm; Reply: 61
It could also include the fact that away teams only bring minimal support in this god awful league
Posted by: HackneyHaddock, November 24, 2014, 3:21pm; Reply: 62
Cost and league position probably are factors.  People will make the calculation that £18 to watch Grimsby v Dover Athletic isn't value for money. Blundell Park is also an awful place to watch football that probably struggles to attract families, especially when there are other things to do on a Saturday afternoon.

Having said that, I think the crowds have held up pretty well given it's the fifth year of conference football.  Many clubs in Leages 2 and 1 struggle to get 3,500 and lots of others only do so because of the numbers of away fans.  If you look at the crowds that come in for the big games (Scunny last season could easily have drawn 10-14,000 had there been the space) and the fact that in the last 15 years we've taken 30,20 and 15 thousand fans to Wembley, it suggests that if all the factors come together (better league position with more "big games", a better ground that attracts families, terracing with reasonable prices, creation of a stronger bond between club and community), then the club is quite capable of getting 5,500-7,000 on a regular basis, with 12-14,000 for big games or opening/closing days of the season.

The problem is about more than the gates though, as even if BP had 7,000 people in it, it only makes any money out of the ticket sale because the ground isn't set up to take any more money off people through food and drink sales.  Take the Pontoon, which in marketing speak, holds at each home game, 900-1200 customers who are overwhelmingly BC1C2 Males between 16 and 60, yet there isn't even a bar where they can get a drink and lunch and sit down with it in front of a TV with it.  This can only be rectified with a new ground.
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