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Quoted from Meza

I'm not being funny John, but I'm starting to run out of steam with this whole stadium malarkey, I so want this to happen there is only so many times I can scream at them about the project. No matter what we put on that site, the nimbys WILL always oppose with whatever bolloxs they feel like putting. At the end of the day GTFC has been associated with Great Grimsby since 1878 and if anyone has a say its the bloody club. All these Nimbys saying don't build on greenfield sites, what the hell do they think there house was built on, im sure it was the same back then when the houses were built.

When will you be putting to the council? what stage are we at with the new stadium?

Meza,

"Steam" so am I. But i am abundantly aware that if the council are to assist then relentless support is essential.

I am afraid the opposition have the biggest say ATM and that will for sure influence if unchecked. Being in politics I have seen how it works.

Were nowhere without agreeing a basis for land transfer. That's on the agenda and the next step.

Afraid it's one step at a time. Every GET article needs your support that's for sure. A few to role in the next few days I hope.

UTM

Keep up the good work!  Huge thanks to everyone who's grafting to get this through.  We really do need it.  As an Exile living 100's of miles away, I wish I could do more myself.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned too much is how many long term and short term jobs this will create.  Is that an angle we can hammer home?

Actually, a second thing, some of the objections are about low attendances at present and unruly fans. I'm sure I read somewhere a few years ago that the new stadia with improved facilities encouraged more families to go to games.  As a result, the general demographic of fans changed and this lead to higher gates but fewer instances of trouble.

UTM

Quoted from Town Monkey

Keep up the good work!  Huge thanks to everyone who's grafting to get this through.  We really do need it.  As an Exile living 100's of miles away, I wish I could do more myself.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned too much is how many long term and short term jobs this will create.  Is that an angle we can hammer home?

Actually, a second thing, some of the objections are about low attendances at present and unruly fans. I'm sure I read somewhere a few years ago that the new stadia with improved facilities encouraged more families to go to games.  As a result, the general demographic of fans changed and this lead to higher gates but fewer instances of trouble.

UTM

The point about the employment is a good one, coupled with the fact that the club itself employs as many people as a medium sized factory. The location of the ground will make it harder for unruly elements to cause problems especially the away club fans.

Quoted from Getyourfactsright

Opposition having the biggest say - please logon and have your say

http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/TOWN-s-5-year-goal-net-new-stadium/story-24533016-detail/story.html

Best John

UTM

It's a waste of time looking on the Telewag site because

A. the article hasn't finished, it won't tell us what the arguments were against other sites until tomorrow/Monday

B. the site is so full of trolls with nothing better to do than fiddle with their cookies and change the voting that nobody takes any notice of the site anymore..

Good on you John for your relentless efforts with this. I wonder though, if it might help our cause if we could have some new pictures of what the new ground/complex would look like, so we can proudly sell OUR positive vision for a new ground, rather than defending against ADF's negative vision he's trying to put into people's heads? The image we're selling to people needs to be compelling, positive and exciting, and we (the pro-relocation foot soldiers if you will) will be better-placed to go out and evangelise about something a bit more real and tangible than the old Conoco Stadium picture.

Let's get an architect to produce some nice landscaped impressions of the new community facility, start making this about the development of the town and the area rather than just the football club, and pitch it to the 100,000 people of the whole area who want this town to improve, rather than fending off the 2,000 NIMBYs who shout the loudest. It might cost tens of thousands to get sketches made up, but I and hundreds of others would probably chuck in £50-100 each to make it happen if you needed it. What do you think?

My comment is currently +741 thumbs up so well done everyone for logging in! :)

But, as mentioned previously, any business folding (as is said would happen to town) would get all the help it could. It seems ridiculous that it's being even thought of dismissed. The club need the town as much as the town needs the club.

As mentioned by someone else, what step are we at and what's the next leap forward? Is a full page advert in the telewag an idea that could be used? Then maybe those against may see the outlined proposal and what it means economically and emotionally to the town

Quoted from Getyourfactsright

Meza,

"Steam" so am I. But i am abundantly aware that if the council are to assist then relentless support is essential.

I am afraid the opposition have the biggest say ATM and that will for sure influence if unchecked. Being in politics I have seen how it works.

Were nowhere without agreeing a basis for land transfer. That's on the agenda and the next step.

Afraid it's one step at a time. Every GET article needs your support that's for sure. A few to role in the next few days I hope.

UTM

Thanks John, I wasn't being arsey about it, just its difficult to try and win over the nimby's in trying to see it from out point of view. Some of these nimby's haven't a clue and are arguing based on not knowing the full story. What will happen to all the youths that go to the games what will they start to do just to pass the time on a Saturday afternoon.

Quoted from Getyourfactsright

Meza,

"Steam" so am I. But i am abundantly aware that if the council are to assist then relentless support is essential.

I am afraid the opposition have the biggest say ATM and that will for sure influence if unchecked. Being in politics I have seen how it works.

Were nowhere without agreeing a basis for land transfer. That's on the agenda and the next step.

Afraid it's one step at a time. Every GET article needs your support that's for sure. A few to role in the next few days I hope.

UTM

Would it not be helpful to open discussion about the new ground up a bit wider than on the fishy and a few articles in the Telegraph? I read the articles and really hope that the club will be playing at improved facilities but I don't really see any public debate. Would it not be advisable to get other local media discussing the new ground, asking questions of yourself and those who stand in the way of the new ground being built? I haven't seen yourself on look north or heard you discussing this on Humberside (apologies if I have missed this) surely this would be an excellent opportunity to debate the need for a new ground and for you to convince the public of exactly where it should be.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

Would it not be helpful to open discussion about the new ground up a bit wider than on the fishy and a few articles in the Telegraph? I read the articles and really hope that the club will be playing at improved facilities but I don't really see any public debate. Would it not be advisable to get other local media discussing the new ground, asking questions of yourself and those who stand in the way of the new ground being built? I haven't seen yourself on look north or heard you discussing this on Humberside (apologies if I have missed this) surely this would be an excellent opportunity to debate the need for a new ground and for you to convince the public of exactly where it should be.

A live public debate on Estuary TV......in the green corner De Freitas....In the Black and White Corner JF.....

Headingly makes a good point though. Maybe set up meetings and proposed ideas of plans. Have drawings/visions of how the area will look in places such as freshney place, library, auditorium, college and leisure centres. Petition around social hubs and supermarkets where there is the highest denomination of footfall.

Just added my tuppence worth.

Whats going on with the thumbs up/down thing? Seems to be a lot of 111 or 222 numbers involved, cricket fans/players will be most concerned about Nelson doing for the stadium!!!!!

I have put our point of view on.

What about setting up a meeting in a hall were residents and fans can ask questions to JF and the councillors or will this just make matters worse.

Some right toss pots on there!

This area gets thousands of pounds worth of publicity from their football club which benefits every single person that lives here, so it's about time the council repaid over 100 years of freebies. Something the against brigade should remember next time they start wittering.

Quoted from Meza

I'm not being funny John, but I'm starting to run out of steam with this whole stadium malarkey, I so want this to happen there is only so many times I can scream at them about the project. No matter what we put on that site, the nimbys WILL always oppose with whatever bolloxs they feel like putting. At the end of the day GTFC has been associated with Great Grimsby since 1878 and if anyone has a say its the bloody club. All these Nimbys saying don't build on greenfield sites, what the hell do they think there house was built on, im sure it was the same back then when the houses were built.

When will you be putting to the council? what stage are we at with the new stadium?

I made the very same point to the "lady" in one of those new build houses behind the Rose and Crown as she ripped up the new stadium leaflet I'd given her in front of my face...

Quoted from moosey_club

A live public debate on Estuary TV......in the green corner De Freitas....In the Black and White Corner JF.....

In all seriousness that ain't a bad idea. My nephew works for Estuary...

Have the club considered doing any form of community engagement besides asking the Trust to put leaflets through doors?

It wouldn't take a great deal in terms of time and resources (relatively speaking) to hold some kind of open meeting / Q&A sessions in the areas that might be affected. You're asking fans to go out and battle local residents through the medium of internet comments sections with virtually no information, armed with nothing but their fervour and a ridiculously vague vision of what could happen in the area. You can't go on this way - it is not an effective method of engaging with people and, in my opinion, is doing more harm than good as people end up digging their heels further and further in.

Nobody is saying that the club have any answers at the moment, as we're nowhere close to providing specific details, but you need to be listening to the concerns of residents and provide them reassurance that the club does actually care about them and their views. Give residents an outlet to discuss the plans at this broad, initial level and you'll not only find that a lot of the concerns are due to a lack of information, but you may even be shape the development in order to address some of these concerns.

We've heard a lot of rhetoric about this being a "community" stadium, but to what extent are the community actually being consulted on what will be a major development?

Obviously the time for proper consultation will come much further down the line, but communities and residents should be consulted at every single stage of developments like this. I'm sorry, but you can't stick a "community" label on something and then prescribe to people what is good for them.

Developments like this should be used to bring communities together and they have the power to do so if done correctly, but the divisive and (sorry to be frank) childish-finger pointing and namecalling (NIMBYs, moaners, etc.) is completely the wrong way to go about it.

The club likes to paint an image of itself as being at the heart of the community and at the heart of the town - at the moment, there is very little evidence of this and we're being led down a path of seeing ourselves as a separate entity. If the club are serious about getting this thing off the ground, they need to show a bit of humility, accept that some residents do have valid concerns and engage with them.

When the Town won promotion, or beat Spurs in the cup, councillors were queuing up on national TV telling all & sundry what it meant to the area etc etc.

York City council have just agreed to help their club relocate to the tune of £4 million.

Is it really too much to ask our council to assist the club in their application?

Don't forget that football fans have the same right to vote as anyone else, if fans started to lobby their councillors, that would send a powerful message to the politicians.

It cost very little to ask your councillors their views & let them know yours.

Is it too much to ask everyone on here to email their councillors, if not then the new stadium is doomed because of YOUR apathy.

Democracy in action.

I think John Fenty should write to FIFA,

Blatter always seems to get his own way,

John might be able to pick up a tip or two. 8)

Quoted from ska face

Have the club considered doing any form of community engagement besides asking the Trust to put leaflets through doors?

It wouldn't take a great deal in terms of time and resources (relatively speaking) to hold some kind of open meeting / Q&A sessions in the areas that might be affected. You're asking fans to go out and battle local residents through the medium of internet comments sections with virtually no information, armed with nothing but their fervour and a ridiculously vague vision of what could happen in the area. You can't go on this way - it is not an effective method of engaging with people and, in my opinion, is doing more harm than good as people end up digging their heels further and further in.

Nobody is saying that the club have any answers at the moment, as we're nowhere close to providing specific details, but you need to be listening to the concerns of residents and provide them reassurance that the club does actually care about them and their views. Give residents an outlet to discuss the plans at this broad, initial level and you'll not only find that a lot of the concerns are due to a lack of information, but you may even be shape the development in order to address some of these concerns.

We've heard a lot of rhetoric about this being a "community" stadium, but to what extent are the community actually being consulted on what will be a major development?

Obviously the time for proper consultation will come much further down the line, but communities and residents should be consulted at every single stage of developments like this. I'm sorry, but you can't stick a "community" label on something and then prescribe to people what is good for them.

Developments like this should be used to bring communities together and they have the power to do so if done correctly, but the divisive and (sorry to be frank) childish-finger pointing and namecalling (NIMBYs, moaners, etc.) is completely the wrong way to go about it.

The club likes to paint an image of itself as being at the heart of the community and at the heart of the town - at the moment, there is very little evidence of this and we're being led down a path of seeing ourselves as a separate entity. If the club are serious about getting this thing off the ground, they need to show a bit of humility, accept that some residents do have valid concerns and engage with them.

I think your right Ska, there is only so far you can go by throwing the same info in the GET and letting the fans & nimby's agree\disagree without knowing the proper benefits.  By engaging with the public in meeting sort of way you are hearing these nimby's get what concerns them of their chest and by JF explaining to them why its important and the benefit it will make to the town in the long run.  All im seeing is comments about how much JF is tyring to line his pocket from Nimbys and were its best to have the stadium.  I have defended the project from the start but like i said earlier there is only so many times you can comment about the same thing.  JF too might even score some browny points.

i think we can all see that those that dont follow town would rather the stadium be hundred miles down the A180 (out of sight out of mind).  Think of the impact the town would be without GTFC, no prospects for youths being able to get into football via the youth system, meaning they would have to go out of town.  The number of jobs that would be lost etc it just upsets me to the core that they can't see the benefits the project would make.  Was there something about disability (leisure complex) being able to do things they might not have been able to and atleast have something they can enjoy.  The other thing the nimby's seem to be calling is to update BP which WE all know is not possible, to update the main stand say it would mean it would have to be closed, now who is going to replace the income lost from that, them, i dont think so.  Most of their comments dont hold any water and its just a way for them to hit back at the club in anyway they can so the stadium is not in the facinity of their home.

If we are really serious about this we need to engage the public further, not just leaflets (with is a start tbf) but like others have said layout the development plans on Estuary TV or get the media company involved that do those videos or setup a meeting place than can hold a few hundred people and lets have a proper discussion.  i know it will probably end up with them vs us but atleast we can show how passionate we are about the project and how much it means to us, the town and the future generation.

Quoted from barralad

I made the very same point to the "lady" in one of those new build houses behind the Rose and Crown as she ripped up the new stadium leaflet I'd given her in front of my face...

Thats a bit crap mate, you should have made her eat the ripped up leaflet haha

we don't know what will happen if we write on the GET site but we do know what will happen if we don't; it will just look like we don't care and that has to influence people, surely? Keep working at it John, Beijing is behind you.

For me the only viable option is to get our backsides down to the townhall with a mass demonstration for as long as it takes. Lets make our voices heard and make these councillors known what we want and to put further pressure on them.

What really annoys me is that the local media/ general public always seem to find a reason why we shouldn't do something in this town rather than focusing on why we should make something happen.

I think BigChris summed it up perfectly when he said Grimsby is the town that wanted nothing, asked for nothing, so got nothing.

Instead of letting the rest of the country mock us as a "deadend" and a "shithole" why don't the people of Grimsby actually make these positive projects happen for once? Look at what Rotherham's new stadium has done for the place.

The mindset of many Grimbarians is so frustrating.

Absolutely spot on gtfc98 and what BigChris said. As an example why has there been nothing done about the land when the findus building was demolished as its sitting making the area look like a sh*thole. My dad agrees with BigChris, the whole town needs updating.

The problem goes as far back as when butlins first came knocking on our door and the folk of clee soon told him where to go. they thought it would take from their businesses and didn't use their brains to see the bigger picture. This is sadly is happening again with the new [/b]commumity[b] stadium

Quoted from gtfc98

What really annoys me is that the local media/ general public always seem to find a reason why we shouldn't do something in this town rather than focusing on why we should make something happen.

I think BigChris summed it up perfectly when he said Grimsby is the town that wanted nothing, asked for nothing, so got nothing.

Instead of letting the rest of the country mock us as a "deadend" and a "shithole" why don't the people of Grimsby actually make these positive projects happen for once? Look at what Rotherham's new stadium has done for the place.

The mindset of many Grimbarians is so frustrating.

Couldn't agree more with these sentiments

What happened to areas that could've been used ? The old kp crisps plant, the stones brewery, Hereford school, great coates, Waltham aerodrome......the area has countless possibilities. The area has numerous redevelopment opportunities. Does this not tell the people that object against things nothing!!

People will always complain as they have nothing else to do. It's time that people thought objectively about what a new ground could bring.

We have the chance to put a pulse back in the town and allow it to thrive.

Quite agree Woz that there are ample possibilities as a site for a new stadium, the question arises that why does
JF completely rule them out? I know what i think, but better not say it on here for obvious reasons.

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

Couldn't agree more with these sentiments

What happened to areas that could've been used ? The old kp crisps plant, the stones brewery, Hereford school, great coates, Waltham aerodrome......the area has countless possibilities. The area has numerous redevelopment opportunities. Does this not tell the people that object against things nothing!!

People will always complain as they have nothing else to do. It's time that people thought objectively about what a new ground could bring.

We have the chance to put a pulse back in the town and allow it to thrive.

What happened to Hereford School, I used to go there but haven't been down that way for a long while.

All derelict as far as am aware mate

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

All derelict as far as am aware mate

Hereford has been rebuilt, it's western they are knocking down

Yes and the Western school site would have been perfect for a stadium but the council have
sold it for housing in a typically short sighted plan based on money - perhaps they are right,
who knows?

Quoted from Mariner Ronnie

Hereford has been rebuilt, it's western they are knocking down

Correct! The bulldozers are already knocking Western down (my old school by the way) Great memories i have too! 1982-1986 :o

Quoted from petethemariner

Yes and the Western school site would have been perfect for a stadium but the council have
sold it for housing in a typically short sighted plan based on money - perhaps they are right,
who knows?

It's already been mentioned by the club that this site would of been a no go from day 1, the roads are not adequate traffic would of been a nightmare because it's bad enough Monday to Friday peak times. And what about the surrounding development that will compliment the stadium, I couldn't see a frankie and bennys or a nando's wanting to set up on the grange.

Fair comment Grim but even the PP project would require road alterations/improvements and there was talk
of widening that road a couple of years ago (of course nothing has happened) there is scope to do so at the mini roundabout
by increasing road width around the grassy area. Personally i would have thought having match day traffic driving through the
centre of Grimsby rather than taking the turn off at Gt Coates would have caused more road disruption.,
The site is deceptively large but anyway it isn't going to happen and i agree that a Grange Frankie & Bennys wouldn't seem
quite right, but i suppose you could change its name to Wayno's & Mad-dogs!

Quoted from 2578

It's already been mentioned by the club that this site would of been a no go from day 1, the roads are not adequate traffic would of been a nightmare because it's bad enough Monday to Friday peak times. And what about the surrounding development that will compliment the stadium, I couldn't see a frankie and bennys or a nando's wanting to set up on the grange.

Nandos had a site planned for grimsby in 2004. In fact 2 were highlighted

Quoted from petethemariner

Quite agree Woz that there are ample possibilities as a site for a new stadium, the question arises that why does
JF completely rule them out? I know what i think, but better not say it on here for obvious reasons.

I don't think it's a question of JF ruling them out but more the people advising on the development.

Quoted from Getyourfactsright

Meza,

"Steam" so am I. But i am abundantly aware that if the council are to assist then relentless support is essential.

I am afraid the opposition have the biggest say ATM and that will for sure influence if unchecked. Being in politics I have seen how it works.

Were nowhere without agreeing a basis for land transfer. That's on the agenda and the next step.

Afraid it's one step at a time. Every GET article needs your support that's for sure. A few to role in the next few days I hope.

UTM

The whole approach to the planned relocation hasn't been thought out and is more reactive than proactive.  The telewag is lower than a school bulletin, and more likely to be written by a monkey with a crayon. Any councillor who puts weight in a few clicks on an internet message board shouldn't be in a position of making any decisions at all, but this could explain why this town has been so poorly run.

(1) The clear leader (Defritter) in the 'No'  campaign doesn't have an opposing clear or as visible leader in the 'Yes' campaign.

(2) How many times have thousands of people from Grimsby gone to Wembley, how many times has the front of Town hall been a sea of black & White cheering a promotion winning team.  If the council need reminding how many people value the club and have backed it over the years this actually beggars belief.

The solution is tough with many variables but the main variable has to be that the yes campaign is more proactive than the no campaign.

(1) A clear campaign with detailed information must be accurate and up front.

(2) Invite the media, TV / radio ads, posters, car stickers asking for people to back and support a move to a new stadium,

Invite Soccer AM to play a video like this but more about the move

[youtube]WDH4IeAZBUM[/youtube]

We are a club that is steeped in history,
We are a club who have played in the top flight,
We are a club that have won top honours in 3 tiers of English football,

GTFC is in the fabric of the Town, it about time the council did something to help the club.

One potential way to raise this is a mass meeting in front of the Town hall, not hundreds but several thousand.  When the time comes for the council to make a decision it should be planned in advance with posters and leaflets for Town fans to meet on mass for a Saturday between 10 - 11am at the Town hall and JF can use a mega phone or even oldfootballer to lead the chants and Town songs.  This is the sort of public showing that would attract the media, that would let those councillors know the true feeling, of course the councillors should be there to witness this first hand.

MARINERS!!!

All we a are saying....... is give us a new ground
All we a are saying....... is give us a new ground
All we a are saying....... is give us a new ground
All we a are saying....... is give us a new ground
All we a are saying....... is give us a new ground

The last time I was in Cleethorpes the old Girls Grammar school was boarded up,

Would that be big enough for a new ground and maybe a retail outlet ?

Quoted from petethemariner

Yes and the Western school site would have been perfect for a stadium but the council have
sold it for housing in a typically short sighted plan based on money - perhaps they are right,
who knows?

I usually have some agreement with your posts but Western School site ideal? You have to be either joking or not have been anywhere near the site for the last five years. Multiply any potential infrastructure problems by 10 on one of the busiest roads in the area much closer to housing than the Parkway site with absolutely zilch chance of road widening etc. No, no and thrice no....

Quoted from Marinerz93

Invite Soccer AM to play a video like this but more about the move

[youtube]WDH4IeAZBUM[/youtube]

I LOVE this video... :)

Barra, its all hypothetical anyway, but i get the impression you do not agree! The thing is though that plans for
widening that road at the mini roundabout were mentioned a couple of years ago using the grassy area next to the golf
club, but of course in typical Grimsby fashion nothing has happened and you could of course  use the area at the front
of the old school to widen the road and provide access.
Perhaps on reflection with the traffic congestion  at the Toothill roundabout it wouldn't be feasible, but surely a site
.on the edge of town would be preferable to a site like PP which would mean total congestion on Peakes Parkway instead
Anyway it seems that nothing will be happening for at least 5 years  and i have severe doubts it will  happen at all.

Quoted from petethemariner

Barra, its all hypothetical anyway, but i get the impression you do not agree! The thing is though that plans for
widening that road at the mini roundabout were mentioned a couple of years ago using the grassy area next to the golf
club, but of course in typical Grimsby fashion nothing has happened and you could of course  use the area at the front
of the old school to widen the road and provide access.
Perhaps on reflection with the traffic congestion  at the Toothill roundabout it wouldn't be feasible, but surely a site
.on the edge of town would be preferable to a site like PP which would mean total congestion on Peakes Parkway instead
Anyway it seems that nothing will be happening for at least 5 years  and i have severe doubts it will  happen at all.

Isn't Peaks Parkway "on the edge of town?" ;)

Quoted from barralad

Isn't Peaks Parkway "on the edge of town?" ;)

Not if you are arriving in GY via the M/A180 it isn't, as many opposing(and quite a large section of home supporters will,) i am surprised that you think that a site near to New Waltham is so accessible, you obviously have more faith in the alleged road planners of this
Town than i do, as is presently evident in the flyover? Victoria St debacle.

Apologies Barra, got on my 'high horse' before i noticed the 'wink' symbol, i porbably need to chill out on this
'new stadium' topic - its been winding me up for 20 years :)

Quoted from petethemariner

Not if you are arriving in GY via the M/A180 it isn't, as many opposing(and quite a large section of home supporters will,) i am surprised that you think that a site near to New Waltham is so accessible, you obviously have more faith in the alleged road planners of this
Town than i do, as is presently evident in the flyover? Victoria St debacle.

Far more accessible for many fans than BP though.

Can't remember the exact figures but something like 5% of season ticket holders live in a 2 mile radius of BP but 35% live within a similar distance to the proposed site. Many of them will walk and with new bus routes + park and ride schemes it could help ease match day traffic! ;)

Quoted from petethemariner

Not if you are arriving in GY via the M/A180 it isn't, as many opposing(and quite a large section of home supporters will,) i am surprised that you think that a site near to New Waltham is so accessible, you obviously have more faith in the alleged road planners of this
Town than i do, as is presently evident in the flyover? Victoria St debacle.

Although the A180 is the best developed road into Grimsby there is also the A16, A18 and A46. All of these were the main routes into Gy prior to the A180 being constructed. They are all viable routes into the area and anyone come from the south will naturally come via the A16 and A46. It is no more difficult to access the Parkway via these routes than it is to negotiate the bottleneck that is the flyover to BP.

Quoted from Meza

Thanks John, I wasn't being arsey about it, just its difficult to try and win over the nimby's in trying to see it from out point of view. Some of these nimby's haven't a clue and are arguing based on not knowing the full story. What will happen to all the youths that go to the games what will they start to do just to pass the time on a Saturday afternoon.

But we don't know the full story either. What do we know about the proposed stadium? Sure we want one, but what and how?

Quoted from ska face

Have the club considered doing any form of community engagement besides asking the Trust to put leaflets through doors?

It wouldn't take a great deal in terms of time and resources (relatively speaking) to hold some kind of open meeting / Q&A sessions in the areas that might be affected. You're asking fans to go out and battle local residents through the medium of internet comments sections with virtually no information, armed with nothing but their fervour and a ridiculously vague vision of what could happen in the area. You can't go on this way - it is not an effective method of engaging with people and, in my opinion, is doing more harm than good as people end up digging their heels further and further in.

Nobody is saying that the club have any answers at the moment, as we're nowhere close to providing specific details, but you need to be listening to the concerns of residents and provide them reassurance that the club does actually care about them and their views. Give residents an outlet to discuss the plans at this broad, initial level and you'll not only find that a lot of the concerns are due to a lack of information, but you may even be shape the development in order to address some of these concerns.

We've heard a lot of rhetoric about this being a "community" stadium, but to what extent are the community actually being consulted on what will be a major development?

Obviously the time for proper consultation will come much further down the line, but communities and residents should be consulted at every single stage of developments like this. I'm sorry, but you can't stick a "community" label on something and then prescribe to people what is good for them.

Developments like this should be used to bring communities together and they have the power to do so if done correctly, but the divisive and (sorry to be frank) childish-finger pointing and namecalling (NIMBYs, moaners, etc.) is completely the wrong way to go about it.

The club likes to paint an image of itself as being at the heart of the community and at the heart of the town - at the moment, there is very little evidence of this and we're being led down a path of seeing ourselves as a separate entity. If the club are serious about getting this thing off the ground, they need to show a bit of humility, accept that some residents do have valid concerns and engage with them.

Bang on. Be nice to see an answer from GYFR on this.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Bang on. Be nice to see an answer from GYFR on this.

Completely agree, a few tricky and genuine questions have been left unanswered on this thread.

I just read the blurb in the GT and would advise anyone with thoughts on the subject to do the same ....... very carefully.

The first question to ask is if the "research" compares like with like. Are Grimsby, GTFC and the Parkway site comparable to Manchester & the Etihad or Swansea, or Birmingham or Sunderland? The answer to that is self-evident. Additionally, house prices have risen for a lot of other reasons since those places had new stadia. House prices might even rise around a Parkway stadium but it won't be because of it and house owners might have to wait a few decades.

At Scunthorpe Mr Swann is promising his own money as part funding with grants and the development is in tandem with Lucent's Lakeside Leisure development. They can even afford to exclude the sale of Glanford Park from the funding and wait for the best price for it.

The next issue is the actual cost. The proposal budget is £22m. A pinch of salt here. The York City stadium for instance started at £18m and is currently at £25m.

Then there is the housing. Both plans contain massive housing development as the long term costs of the stadium. Plan A with 1488 houses would see a vast covering over of greenfield land down the Parkway. Even Plan B with 850 houses would create a pretty massive estate. For comparison, the whole of the Nunsthorpe estate has 2400 houses.

The last time there was a development of this size was in the 1960s & 70s when areas like Springfield, Fairfield, Middlethorpe and Signhills were built. The other difference is that most of those estates were built by local builders in relatively small parcels using local labour, the money stayed in town.

How anyone can work out that such a development today will bring £120m or £200m or £1b of "inward investment" is beyond my tiny brain. They must have some sort of crystal ball. There will certainly be money made but whether Grimsby will see much of it is another matter.

No mention of the ultimate effect of all this on the Parkway itself either, which as everyone knows was deliberately built on the old railway line to provide a trunk road directly into the town centre from the south for docks, commercial and commuting traffic.

So beware of plans bearing fancy health spas and other enticing goodies. It reads more and more as though the new ground is a sweetener to a much bigger money making scheme.

Town need a new ground but at what cost? Not convinced.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

I just read the blurb in the GT and would advise anyone with thoughts on the subject to do the same ....... very carefully.

The first question to ask is if the "research" compares like with like. Are Grimsby, GTFC and the Parkway site comparable to Manchester & the Etihad or Swansea, or Birmingham or Sunderland? The answer to that is self-evident. Additionally, house prices have risen for a lot of other reasons since those places had new stadia. House prices might even rise around a Parkway stadium but it won't be because of it and house owners might have to wait a few decades.

At Scunthorpe Mr Swann is promising his own money as part funding with grants and the development is in tandem with Lucent's Lakeside Leisure development. They can even afford to exclude the sale of Glanford Park from the funding and wait for the best price for it.

The next issue is the actual cost. The proposal budget is £22m. A pinch of salt here. The York City stadium for instance started at £18m and is currently at £25m.

Then there is the housing. Both plans contain massive housing development as the long term costs of the stadium. Plan A with 1488 houses would see a vast covering over of greenfield land down the Parkway. Even Plan B with 850 houses would create a pretty massive estate. For comparison, the whole of the Nunsthorpe estate has 2400 houses.

The last time there was a development of this size was in the 1960s & 70s when areas like Springfield, Fairfield, Middlethorpe and Signhills were built. The other difference is that most of those estates were built by local builders in relatively small parcels using local labour, the money stayed in town.

How anyone can work out that such a development today will bring £120m or £200m or £1b of "inward investment" is beyond my tiny brain. They must have some sort of crystal ball. There will certainly be money made but whether Grimsby will see much of it is another matter.

No mention of the ultimate effect of all this on the Parkway itself either, which as everyone knows was deliberately built on the old railway line to provide a trunk road directly into the town centre from the south for docks, commercial and commuting traffic.

So beware of plans bearing fancy health spas and other enticing goodies. It reads more and more as though the new ground is a sweetener to a much bigger money making scheme.

Town need a new ground but at what cost? Not convinced.

But isn't there a strong possibility that these development plans might still go ahead without GTFC so we miss out completely? Towns grow , that is an undeniable fact and with the rate our population is rising, especially as we are a much better prospect to Eastern Europeans in the EU wanting to make a fresh start, then surely it should be to our advantage to benefit from this. I have no problem with some people making a lot of money out of this, it happens everywhere and to me there is nothing wrong in that. If us fans adopt a too negative attitude over this we could find ourselves stuck in a crumbling ground and no way of ever moving to new premises.

Quoted from rancido

But isn't there a strong possibility that these development plans might still go ahead without GTFC so we miss out completely? Towns grow , that is an undeniable fact and with the rate our population is rising, especially as we are a much better prospect to Eastern Europeans in the EU wanting to make a fresh start, then surely it should be to our advantage to benefit from this. I have no problem with some people making a lot of money out of this, it happens everywhere and to me there is nothing wrong in that. If us fans adopt a too negative attitude over this we could find ourselves stuck in a crumbling ground and no way of ever moving to new premises.

You might well be right Rancido, there may be plans afoot for housing development down to the south of town and JF may be riding on the coat tails of it. I have no nimby thoughts on it but looking at the town I cannot see that such a development can be anything else but a developer's wet dream and sod all good for Grimsby.

Towns grow but going outwards like this will only make the central area of town more of a desert than it is now. If Grimsby had really good town planners they would be releasing land in that area for housing, increasing the population there and so increasing the demand for retail in the town centre. That is what has happened in Hull for example. The more locals you have near the shops the less you need to rely on out of town visitors with a car. The more you split the residential areas the more you have to either put more out of town shops or allow for commuting into town. Also this still doesn't answer what happens with the A16 trunk road that will become a residential access.

Where does it leave us with the new ground? It could still be on the Parkway if the sponsorship deals and grants worked out OK and if that's what everyone wants or it could be somewhere else. I'm not against us having one there it's just that all the extras in these plans don't work for me.

I do wish red crossers were a bit more open minded, thought outside of the obvious and at least countered my arguments in a post as you have. :)

If the project included a swimming pool in a leisure centre that had a training area for the use of both GTFC and the general public,

Plus 3G 5 a side pitches that could be used year round,

That would be a winner for both the club and locals,

Just a thought.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

You might well be right Rancido, there may be plans afoot for housing development down to the south of town and JF may be riding on the coat tails of it. I have no nimby thoughts on it but looking at the town I cannot see that such a development can be anything else but a developer's wet dream and sod all good for Grimsby.

Towns grow but going outwards like this will only make the central area of town more of a desert than it is now. If Grimsby had really good town planners they would be releasing land in that area for housing, increasing the population there and so increasing the demand for retail in the town centre. That is what has happened in Hull for example. The more locals you have near the shops the less you need to rely on out of town visitors with a car. The more you split the residential areas the more you have to either put more out of town shops or allow for commuting into town. Also this still doesn't answer what happens with the A16 trunk road that will become a residential access.

Where does it leave us with the new ground? It could still be on the Parkway if the sponsorship deals and grants worked out OK and if that's what everyone wants or it could be somewhere else. I'm not against us having one there it's just that all the extras in these plans don't work for me.

I do wish red crossers were a bit more open minded, thought outside of the obvious and at least countered my arguments in a post as you have. :)

There are a lot of brownfield sites in Grimsby/Cleethorpes but mostly smallish pockets of land. The old Birds Eye site seems to be the only sizeable one and that has been ear-marked for housing. A lot of the housing in the centre of town was built late 19th century and is getting quite dated but obviously is unavailable for re-development. The fact is that when the club moves then that will release a brownfield site for housing!

Quoted from rancido

But isn't there a strong possibility that these development plans might still go ahead without GTFC so we miss out completely? Towns grow , that is an undeniable fact and with the rate our population is rising, especially as we are a much better prospect to Eastern Europeans in the EU wanting to make a fresh start, then surely it should be to our advantage to benefit from this. I have no problem with some people making a lot of money out of this, it happens everywhere and to me there is nothing wrong in that. If us fans adopt a too negative attitude over this we could find ourselves stuck in a crumbling ground and no way of ever moving to new premises.

It is without doubt that if GTFC don't build on this land someone will, whether it be a supermarket and or housing it WILL happen.

The Parkway was built simply to open up land at "Scartho Top" a number of developments again of smaller scale are being suggested in and around New Waltham and these are being largely rejected but simply viable because the road was built.

There was no point in the massive outlay for the road if it was not also going to bring in more investment, it an only do this if there is land to be built on.

Allowing houses to be built on this land WILL support the Town centre...as there is a nice straight road taking cars there!

If any NIMBYS do think objecting to the stadium will protect a greenfield site and their allotments they are completely ignorant of reality.

Quoted from rancido

There are a lot of brownfield sites in Grimsby/Cleethorpes but mostly smallish pockets of land. The old Birds Eye site seems to be the only sizeable one and that has been ear-marked for housing. A lot of the housing in the centre of town was built late 19th century and is getting quite dated but obviously is unavailable for re-development. The fact is that when the club moves then that will release a brownfield site for housing!

That may be just the point. A lot of small pockets with decent value houses is better than a huge estate. I know as well as anyone that the practicalities are not easy but that isn't the main issue.

To me, it boils down to how desperate people are to have a new ground and what they are prepared to do to the town they live in to get it. Reading the blurb in the GT again tonight it really does look as though there is a money making scheme in process somewhere and the new ground is being thrown into the mix to get local support for outside developers to make a killing.

Surely the largest proportion of exiled home fans, away teams, and away fans will come in via the A180 end of Town.

It's well noted that a large proportion of the club's fan base is 50/60+

What has been done to make the petition accessible to people without internet access or IT Literate?

As ska says, are petitions available in the club shop, club bars, at the turnstiles etc though guessing this is already being done

Quoted from lee65

Surely the largest proportion of exiled home fans, away teams, and away fans will come in via the A180 end of Town.

Not if they are coming from the midlands ( A46 ) or the south ( A16 ).

Quoted from mariner2000

It is without doubt that if GTFC don't build on this land someone will, whether it be a supermarket and or housing it WILL happen.

The Parkway was built simply to open up land at "Scartho Top" a number of developments again of smaller scale are being suggested in and around New Waltham and these are being largely rejected but simply viable because the road was built.

There was no point in the massive outlay for the road if it was not also going to bring in more investment, it an only do this if there is land to be built on.

Allowing houses to be built on this land WILL support the Town centre...as there is a nice straight road taking cars there!

If any NIMBYS do think objecting to the stadium will protect a greenfield site and their allotments they are completely ignorant of reality.

Scartho Top is the other side of Scartho Road, and in between there is the older bit of Scartho and the area south of the hospital. Peaks Parkway doesn't open up ST.

Maybe if there is the prospect of a massive housing development along PP, then we might get commercial funding for the stadium as part of a planning gain package that the council imposes.