Why he isn't playing and that pile of garbage MacKreth is confuses me. Arnold and Neilson are very natural players to play around Lenny in a 3

#constructive

Agreed. I rate nielson over macreth. Think hurst is a fan of the natural 'down the line' winger over Neilson's run inside style

Mackreth must be doing something right. I understand he is our leading assister. Against Guiseley the game changed when Arnold came on for Neilson who, if the rumours are to be believed incurred Hurst's wrath for continually coming inside. My main complaint about Mackreth is that he doesn't use his pace often enough to beat his man...

I'm not sure "bag of sh1te" is a fair or kind description to one of our own...

I don't actually think Mackreth is that much quicker than your usual fullback. Not a patch on Colbeck IMO, who wasn't quick but at least had a bit of size so as to not get pushed off the ball every single time.

Quoted from itsnotcoditshaddock

I don't actually think Mackreth is that much quicker than your usual fullback. Not a patch on Colbeck IMO, who wasn't quick but at least had a bit of size so as to not get pushed off the ball every single time.

And he weighed in with a goal or two....

Its no suprise, he has always been the first to get dropped, first to get subbed and first to get blamed whenever something attacking doesnt go right, even when he has ran the show, ie early doors this season, Hurst would be guarded in his praise......but as Hurst is right in saying he just doesnt do it consistantly enough....a bit of a conundrum.

Neilson is the type of player halifax won't want to be up against Tuesday night. He should play he offers a huge threat and is very creative. Think back to his great vision for the pass that played thomas in to give us the penalty against wrexham. He is a class above at times.

I don't think Neilson is a natural winger, he's better playing in the middle, "in the hole" where he can go wide.

When he's out wide he tends to come inside too much.

Hurst wants the wingers to stay wide to stretch the opposition.

Neilson has a great amount of skill but his application of it is lacking too often.

As has been noted, he cuts inside pretty much every single time he gets the ball. He needs to mix it up a bit when playing as a left-sided player. I realise it is easier to turn in onto your stronger foot, but it makes things much easier for the defence when they have a pretty good idea what you are going to do 99% of the time.

The alternative is that he plays in 'the hole' behind the striker(s) and this would at least give him a bit more room to go either side.

My view is that we still probably don't quite have the necessary pace and running ability in midfield to allow us to play a classical central trio behind three attacking players. This is why our 4-3-3 tends to be more of a 4-5-1 a lot of the time as the two wider men put quite a lot of effort into bolstering the midfield.

As for Mackreth, I have been a little disappointed that he hasn't been quite the threat that we originally hoped. However, you can't fault his workrate and I think he's a decent enough player at this level. Certainly not inferior to Colbeck in most respects (and less likely to pick up stupid red cards!), but he doesn't get into shooting positions very often, that's for sure. Could do with him picking up a few goals this season.

Quoted from SamTheMariner

Arnold and Neilson are very natural players to play around Lenny in a 3

Who's playing right side for you ?

Not saying either wouldn't be effective there (I don't know) but IIRC, both have rarely (if at all) played that side this season.
It begs the question what do you mean by "natural" ?

Quoted from itsnotcoditshaddock

I don't actually think Mackreth is that much quicker than your usual fullback.

Disagree, think he's beaten a fair few as he's "Mr acceleration".

Put it this way...
I've yet to see Arnold OR Neilson "beat a full back" ONCE this season.
If anyone can remember an instance where they have, please say, I'm all ears !

Mackreth "offers something different" (thank god IMO) and as I keep saying works his butt off for the team.
So did Colbeck perhaps.
But for me, there's no comparison between Colbeck and Mackreth when it comes to vision and passing ability.

In general, wingers are always easy targets for criticism anyway.
Because when they're "out the game" few tend to question the service they get.

However I agree with barra that a goal or two wouldn't go amiss...

Quoted from Maringer

My view is that we still probably don't quite have the necessary pace and running ability in midfield to allow us to play a classical central trio behind three attacking players.

A very good point IMO although perhaps it may also depend who's in midfield.
If it's Pell, Clay and Brown then I'd say maybe we have.
If it's Parslow, Disley + other then guess you're definitely right !

I'd play Nelson in a five man midfield, sat behind LJL, 4-4-1-1.

Quoted from Maringer

Neilson has a great amount of skill but his application of it is lacking too often.

As has been noted, he cuts inside pretty much every single time he gets the ball. He needs to mix it up a bit when playing as a left-sided player. I realise it is easier to turn in onto your stronger foot, but it makes things much easier for the defence when they have a pretty good idea what you are going to do 99% of the time.

The alternative is that he plays in 'the hole' behind the striker(s) and this would at least give him a bit more room to go either side.

My view is that we still probably don't quite have the necessary pace and running ability in midfield to allow us to play a classical central trio behind three attacking players. This is why our 4-3-3 tends to be more of a 4-5-1 a lot of the time as the two wider men put quite a lot of effort into bolstering the midfield.

As for Mackreth, I have been a little disappointed that he hasn't been quite the threat that we originally hoped. However, you can't fault his workrate and I think he's a decent enough player at this level. Certainly not inferior to Colbeck in most respects (and less likely to pick up stupid red cards!), but he doesn't get into shooting positions very often, that's for sure. Could do with him picking up a few goals this season.

He's missed a fair few one on ones recently though, I just don't think he can finish that well either - I don't remember Colbeck getting in particularly more scoring positions but he was more likely to get one I think.

Didn't we have this same argument with the form of LJL?? Maybe it's more than just putting a good shift in on a Saturday afternoon?

Quoted from Tom13

He's missed a fair few one on ones recently though, I just don't think he can finish that well either - I don't remember Colbeck getting in particularly more scoring positions but he was more likely to get one I think.

I actually looked at the player stats bit on the OS and that seemed to think he'd only had 5 shots so far this season! A remarkably low number of efforts for an attacking player. I've only been to home games this season but can only recall a couple of sliced efforts (when he should have done better), so don't really know of any one-on-ones missed.

Not sure what his career scoring record is like as Soccerbase appears to be down at the moment, but I'd be surprised if he scores too many.

We average 1.9 points when Mackreth starts and 1.2 points when Neilson starts

http://www.thefishy.co.uk/story.php?id=8502671

Not sure why Nielson  has not made the 11 but Mackreth has the most assists with 5.

IMO Scotty can be guilty of making the wrong decisions many times during the game . Often giving the ball away cheaply when an easy pass would be the better option . When he cuts inside he gets crowded out and tries to beat too many players . However , and it is a Big However , he is a game changer at this level ................So what do you do? I agree with some of the above posts , keep him  behind LJL with Arnold .

Although I am a big fan of SN and he absolutely ran show at Halifax ( know some fans there and said best player they had seen at Shay for long time). Hurst is getting results without him in the starting 11.
BUT I would play him!! ;)

Quoted from 120797

Who's playing right side for you ?

Not saying either wouldn't be effective there (I don't know) but IIRC, both have rarely (if at all) played that side this season.
It begs the question what do you mean by "natural" ?


Disagree, think he's beaten a fair few as he's "Mr acceleration".

Put it this way...
I've yet to see Arnold OR Neilson "beat a full back" ONCE this season.
If anyone can remember an instance where they have, please say, I'm all ears !

Mackreth "offers something different" (thank god IMO) and as I keep saying works his butt off for the team.
So did Colbeck perhaps.
But for me, there's no comparison between Colbeck and Mackreth when it comes to vision and passing ability.

In general, wingers are always easy targets for criticism anyway.
Because when they're "out the game" few tend to question the service they get.

However I agree with barra that a goal or two wouldn't go amiss...

Disagree with you on this 80s, Neilson is our best player at taking on his man. Did so about two or three times against Oxford when he game on.

His goal against Gateshead (away where he beats three men and blasts the shot into the back of the net from about 30 yards shows the step up in quality from Mackreth who for me, doesn't cut it at this level.

Someone above posted about Neilson always cutting inside, could the answer be as simple as switching wings?

if you havn't seen Neilson take a on a man this season, then you havn't been to one game.

Makreth was out paced and easily knocked off the ball on Saturday... Scott Neilson made a helluva
difference when he came on... the other players around him seemed to go up a gear when he came on..

not rocket science... I would def have SN in the team tonight...

Scott is the type of player who can not turn it on every game,

Every so often he needs a rest and a kick up the bum,

Then he comes back and plays at his best,

Tonight I believe he will be back,

Just watch him go !!!!!!

Go get at them Scotty. 8)

On a completely unrelated side note:-

Has any Town player EVER had his name misspelt as often as Makreth MacrethMaccreth.Mackreth

I had five edits at it last night....

Quoted from Maringer

I actually looked at the player stats bit on the OS and that seemed to think he'd only had 5 shots so far this season! A remarkably low number of efforts for an attacking player. I've only been to home games this season but can only recall a couple of sliced efforts (when he should have done better),so don't really know of any one-on-ones missed.

Not sure what his career scoring record is like as Soccerbase appears to be down at the moment, but I'd be surprised if he scores too many.

Wrexham & Halifax away games. The Halifax one was an especially glaring miss since he had the whole goal to aim at and tamely shot straight at the keeper.

Quoted from Tinymariner

I'd play Nelson in a five man midfield, sat behind LJL, 4-4-1-1.

What with only one eye! ;)

TBF in this league Neilson is a class above any of the other team members but lacks consistency, every team can accommodate a player of his type that will get you a win when the chips are down,  and IMO he should start most matches

Quoted from barralad

On a completely unrelated side note:-

Has any Town player EVER had his name misspelt as often as Makreth MacrethMaccreth.Mackreth

I had five edits at it last night....

Bradley woods??

:)

Joe Coulbeck?

What people seem to misunderstand with Neilson is that he can only play in one or two positions. That position is either behind two-man attack or a one-man attack. He fits into formations such as 4-5-1, 4-1-2-1-2 or 4-3-1-2. Currently Hurst likes to use 4-3-3. By using that system it means that Mackreth and Arnold have to play because of their respective work rates on either wing.

When Neilson has started on the left in that formation he has far too often cut inside leaving Thomas exposed at left back if he decides to press forward. Thomas knows that if he does press forward then Neilson won't be quick enough cover for him. When played in a 4-5-1 or 4-3-1-2 formation I believe Neilson is possibly the most effective player we have. He proved that against Gateshead away when he played behind Pittman and LJL.

It does seem a bit of a waste not to be using him properly, especially when he can score against the run of play (see Gateshead again). The problem for him now is not necessarily Mackreth but Arnold. The only option for Hurst to use both Arnold and Neilson in a system they'll both suit, and one that wouldn't sacrifice change the three central midfielders, is 4-3-2-1. LJL's hold up play is so good that Arnold would have time to burst forward from outside the box and in to dangerous positions. That would enable Neilson to take a natural position just outside the opposition's penalty area where he can dictate play as well as trying to get a shot on target.

It would be a good formation to start with as I do think Neilson is more effective starting a game than coming off the bench as a substitute. Mackreth, however, is different. He possesses enough pace to create problems in the latter stages of a match. He is able to reach the byline, though he hasn't done this enough. When he has he's caused problems.

It must be a little frustrating for Neilson but the team has many qualities and are not restricted to just one player. It is a good dilemma for Hurst to have when the rest of areas on the pitch are fairly settled. If, of course, Hurst wants to be a bit more radical he could use 4-5-1. A two-man central midfield pairing with Mackreth and Arnold used as wingers with Neilson behind LJL. I would like to see that tried but unsure whether Hurst will change a three-man central midfield that has been consistently strong so far.

Quoted from davmariner

Disagree with you on this 80s, Neilson is our best player at taking on his man. Did so about two or three times against Oxford when he game on.

His goal against Gateshead (away where he beats three men and blasts the shot into the back of the net from about 30 yards shows the step up in quality from Mackreth who for me, doesn't cut it at this level.

Well I won't comment on Mackreth dav but fully agree with you about Neilson !

All I really meant was I can't remember him either skinning a full back out wide if he's playing left side, moreso him cutting inside and jinking round players at will.
Similarly can't really remember him playing right wing, let alone doing beating the left back. (out wide again)

Fully agree though, he's got loads of ability and trickery - enough to cause many a defender nightmares !   :o  :)

Quoted from barralad

Has any Town player EVER had his name misspelt as often as Makreth MacrethMaccreth.Mackreth

I had five edits at it last night....

Paddy Magloflin ?  ;)

IMO Nielsen is an excellent ball player but as others on this thread have said probably better in a central role than wide.  I would like to see him sat just behind LJL and JP in an attacking midfielder role. This would probably mean losing someone else in the central role if we are going to play 2 widemen.  This could cause problems with being over run in the centre of the park.  It would mean the wide men coming narrow when we are defending to help out but going wide when we are attacking to give us the width.  It is a dilemma for Hursty which way to go.  As someone else mentioned this could leave us open in the wide areas on a counter attack

Quoted from Maringer

I actually looked at the player stats bit on the OS and that seemed to think he'd only had 5 shots so far this season! A remarkably low number of efforts for an attacking player. I've only been to home games this season but can only recall a couple of sliced efforts (when he should have done better), so don't really know of any one-on-ones missed.

Not sure what his career scoring record is like as Soccerbase appears to be down at the moment, but I'd be surprised if he scores too many.

As Chris already said there were a couple of decent chances he missed at away games, my point was I don't really remember Colbeck having that many more chances - maybe I just can't remember them?

Four goals for Colbeck in two seasons, so he wasn't exactly tearing up any trees in the goalscoring stakes! Mackreth got 6 League goals in 2 seasons at Macc which isn't exactly brilliant, either.

Personally, I'd hope for wingers who play most of the games in a season to pick up half-a-dozen or so as both Neilson and Rodman managed last year. Hopefully, Neilson will rediscover his shooting boots after his good start to the season and work his way into double figures.

Quoted from Maringer

Four goals for Colbeck in two seasons, so he wasn't exactly tearing up any trees in the goalscoring stakes! Mackreth got 6 League goals in 2 seasons at Macc which isn't exactly brilliant, either.

Personally, I'd hope for wingers who play most of the games in a season to pick up half-a-dozen or so as both Neilson and Rodman managed last year. Hopefully, Neilson will rediscover his shooting boots after his good start to the season and work his way into double figures.

Agreed, makes you appreciate Coulson's 10 goals that he got the year before he left!

Quoted from chaos33

:)

Joe Coulbeck?

Scot Nielsen?

Quoted from 120797

Who's playing right side for you?

Start Neilson on the weaker full back and switch it around if it isn't working, then bring Mackreth on if it still isn't.

Neilson is inconsistent, which is why most players end up at this level. If he did the biz every week, he would be playing higher.