Sack Paul Hurst Monday and you will have finally gotten a Managerial decision right!
Ps  Gary Mills failing that Neil Aspin

Quoted from 1mickylyons

Sack Paul Hurst Monday and you will have finally gotten a Managerial decision right!
Ps  Gary Mills failing that Neil Aspin

If he does Burnsey will tear him a new one and crow about the Fishy running the club again ;D but that should not change his views if thats his decision, personally I`ve seen enough to convince me that mismanagement of failing to procure another striker means that we will need something extra special from him and his team now to lift the gloom that has settled in the club.

Alternative message for John Fenty:

In conjunction with your colleagues, please take an objective and considered view of the current situation and don't be swayed by the fact that people are starting multiple threads on this newsgroup (a crowd baying for blood doesn't mean that they are right!).

The simple question is whether you - collectively - believe that the current manager and squad can make up the 6 points we are adrift in the remaining two-thirds of the season. Have they the ability, the motivation and the confidence to do so? What is the spirit like in the dressing room and on the training pitch? Have they the determination and desire to improve performances? Do they believe they can rediscover the form they showed in the Gateshead and Alfreton victories, or the battling team effort at Halifax? What will best help them gain confidence and consistency? If they achieve this and results and performances improve, will the confidence and support of the fans also improve?

Objectivity and nerve are vital qualities when external pressure mounts!

Quoted from DavidB

Alternative message for John Fenty:

In conjunction with your colleagues, please take an objective and considered view of the current situation and don't be swayed by the fact that people are starting multiple threads on this newsgroup (a crowd baying for blood doesn't mean that they are right!).

The simple question is whether you - collectively - believe that the current manager and squad can make up the 6 points we are adrift in the remaining two-thirds of the season. Have they the ability, the motivation and the confidence to do so? What is the spirit like in the dressing room and on the training pitch? Have they the determination and desire to improve performances? Do they believe they can rediscover the form they showed in the Gateshead and Alfreton victories, or the battling team effort at Halifax? What will best help them gain confidence and consistency? If they achieve this and results and performances improve, will the confidence and support of the fans also improve?

Objectivity and nerve are vital qualities when external pressure mounts!

He has had a bloody good crack at it , how much longer do you genuinely want ?

How many more years do you want David ?

Can't you see that he's not the man for the job.....

Quoted from DavidB

Alternative message for John Fenty:

In conjunction with your colleagues, please take an objective and considered view of the current situation and don't be swayed by the fact that people are starting multiple threads on this newsgroup (a crowd baying for blood doesn't mean that they are right!).

The simple question is whether you - collectively - believe that the current manager and squad can make up the 6 points we are adrift in the remaining two-thirds of the season. Have they the ability, the motivation and the confidence to do so? What is the spirit like in the dressing room and on the training pitch? Have they the determination and desire to improve performances? Do they believe they can rediscover the form they showed in the Gateshead and Alfreton victories, or the battling team effort at Halifax? What will best help them gain confidence and consistency? If they achieve this and results and performances improve, will the confidence and support of the fans also improve?

Objectivity and nerve are vital qualities when external pressure mounts!

I noticed you omitted to mention that we desperately need a new hair raising  striker and have still not got one

Quoted from ackomariner

How many more years do you want David ?

Can't you see that he's not the man for the job.....

I think his rose tinters have steamed up.

he cant see intercourse all.

John I saw in your face that you was very down on todays non performance,

AND

Hurst's team selection,

Paul does not think he did anything wrong in dropping Neilson,

Well we do not think you will have done anything wrong if you drop Hurst,

If we want to get promoted this season you have to act sooner rather than later,

I am sure Doig will get more out of this squad than Hurst have ever done,

Give him a chance unless of course you have somebody else ready to step in for Tuesday/

Quoted from DavidB

Alternative message for John Fenty:

In conjunction with your colleagues, please take an objective and considered view of the current situation and don't be swayed by the fact that people are starting multiple threads on this newsgroup (a crowd baying for blood doesn't mean that they are right!).

The simple question is whether you - collectively - believe that the current manager and squad can make up the 6 points we are adrift in the remaining two-thirds of the season. Have they the ability, the motivation and the confidence to do so? What is the spirit like in the dressing room and on the training pitch? Have they the determination and desire to improve performances? Do they believe they can rediscover the form they showed in the Gateshead and Alfreton victories, or the battling team effort at Halifax? What will best help them gain confidence and consistency? If they achieve this and results and performances improve, will the confidence and support of the fans also improve?

Objectivity and nerve are vital qualities when external pressure mounts!

How about his obsession with Shop and dropping your best player? How do you feel we can achieve promotion with him in charge?

Quoted from grimsby pete

I am sure Doig will get more out of this squad than Hurst have ever done,

/

Based on?

He might be the Scottish Mourinho, but that's guesswork!

Message for John? I don't believe you believe in him John. Sorry.

Quoted from 1mickylyons

Sack Paul Hurst Monday and you will have finally gotten a Managerial decision right!
Ps  Gary Mills failing that Neil Aspin

For me they would be my top two targets as well.

If JF has the 100 grand to spare that (my guestimate) it would cost to sack Hurst and appoint a replacement, then I'm indifferent how he spends his money as I don't think any other manager would make much difference (see Chapter 6 of Soccernomics  - Do Managers Matter? The Cult of the White Messiah). Personally if he's going to put 100 grand in I'd prefer it on strengthening the squad in January as that would almost certainly make a material difference.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Message for John? I don't believe you believe in him John. Sorry.

I have this little feeling john is running out of patience now.

The thing is I would love to know what he really thinks and a nice little statement from him would do the trick.

we knows what happens when we get a fenty statement.

Quoted from GrimRob

If JF has the 100 grand to spare that (my guestimate) it would cost to sack Hurst and appoint a replacement, then I'm indifferent how he spends his money as I don't think any other manager would make much difference (see Chapter 6 of Soccernomics  - Do Managers Matter? The Cult of the White Messiah). Personally if he's going to put 100 grand in I'd prefer it on strengthening the squad in January as that would almost certainly make a material difference.

Given Paul Hurst`s last 2 January transfers windows not sure he can be relied upon to improve anything Rob? The 100K you quote could be peanuts if we get the right man in and gain Promotion with our squad I think a new Manager before Tuesday could still win the League.

Quoted from GrimRob

If JF has the 100 grand to spare that (my guestimate) it would cost to sack Hurst and appoint a replacement, then I'm indifferent how he spends his money as I don't think any other manager would make much difference (see Chapter 6 of Soccernomics  - Do Managers Matter? The Cult of the White Messiah). Personally if he's going to put 100 grand in I'd prefer it on strengthening the squad in January as that would almost certainly make a material difference.

Yes it would. Those extra defenders Hurst would sign would probably be worth another 2 or 3 points to us by May.

Quoted from GrimRob

If JF has the 100 grand to spare that (my guestimate) it would cost to sack Hurst and appoint a replacement, then I'm indifferent how he spends his money as I don't think any other manager would make much difference (see Chapter 6 of Soccernomics  - Do Managers Matter? The Cult of the White Messiah). Personally if he's going to put 100 grand in I'd prefer it on strengthening the squad in January as that would almost certainly make a material difference.

Hurst wont be on a contract worth 100 grand. He is on a rolling contract isn't he?

If JF is reading, as well as Hurst's exit, please plan your own exit strategy.  We keep thinking you can't take this club any lower than you have, but you keep going one better each time with awful decisions every time. You spout on  about saving the club financially, nonsense, you've killed it, all for your own ego.  Step away please!

Quoted from 1mickylyons

Given Paul Hurst`s last 2 January transfers windows not sure he can be relied upon to improve anything Rob? The 100K you quote could be peanuts if we get the right man in and gain Promotion with our squad I think a new Manager before Tuesday could still win the League.

I agreee if it works then it's money well spent, the problem is Fenty has to dip his hand in his pocket now with no guarantee of success. And what the chapter in that book I keep on harping on about says is statistically that changing managers on average makes very little difference - as it hasn't for us in our recent history.

I am glad I don't have  to decide anyway. I suspect the current situaton is not bad enough to tempt him (and the rest of the board) but who knows.

Maybe there's something to be said about attendances. This aspect will drive the decision I think. If people start voting with their feet then the pressure will mount. I think it's almost certain that there'll be less than 3000 there on Tuesday. Maybe as few as 2500. If that result is anything other than a win, I can't see that there would be anywhere left to go.

For me, there's a small window of opportunity to act and give a new manager a chance to address the shortcomings and save the season. If we dally much longer, we'll be too far adrift and running out of time. The writing is on the wall and Hurst has had long enough. We are going round in circles.

The bigger problem that I've got is that I've got no faith in the owner.

Quoted from 1739

Hurst wont be on a contract worth 100 grand. He is on a rolling contract isn't he?

I'm guessing about half that for PH, the rest for a replacement and any players he might want. I stand to be corrected  though if that is not the figure.

Quoted from GrimRob

I agreee if it works then it's money well spent, the problem is Fenty has to dip his hand in his pocket now with no guarantee of success. And what the chapter in that book I keep on harping on about says is statistically that changing managers on average makes very little difference - as it hasn't for us in our recent history.

I am glad I don't have  to decide anyway. I suspect the current situaton is not bad enough to tempt him (and the rest of the board) but who knows.

Well JF normally reacts when the clamour gets to about the level it`s at tonight I would think anything less than a convincing win Tuesday he will be gone for sure but if there is a meeting Monday it may be sooner? League Tables don't lie Rob and worryingly with the fixtures weve had so far I would argue we should be neck and neck with Barnet not 12 points behind!

:) :)

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Yes it would. Those extra defenders Hurst would sign would probably be worth another 2 or 3 points to us by May.

Quoted from kingster72

If JF is reading, as well as Hurst's exit, please plan your own exit strategy.  We keep thinking you can't take this club any lower than you have, but you keep going one better each time with awful decisions every time. You spout on  about saving the club financially, nonsense, you've killed it, all for your own ego.  Step away please!

If JF goes than our budget would take a huge nosedive and we'd have a much less competitive team. I struggle to see why anyone would want to see this, it's like saying I think I can do better without my left hand.

Quoted from Abdul19

Based on?

He might be the Scottish Mourinho, but that's guesswork!

Based on the Scots are not very good at playing football,

BUT

Are the best in this country at managing clubs,

Would you like a list  :)

I did say if we do not have anybody lined up,

I do not think it will be a backward step giving it to him until we can get the right man in.

Quoted from chaos33

Maybe there's something to be said about attendances. This aspect will drive the decision I think. If people start voting with their feet then the pressure will mount. I think it's almost certain that there'll be less than 3000 there on Tuesday. Maybe as few as 2500. If that result is anything other than a win, I can't see that there would be anywhere left to go.

For me, there's a small window of opportunity to act and give a new manager a chance to address the shortcomings and save the season. If we dally much longer, we'll be too far adrift and running out of time. The writing is on the wall and Hurst has had long enough. We are going round in circles.

The bigger problem that I've got is that I've got no faith in the owner.

Excellent post and I agree a crowd under 2900 on Tuesday will cause panic and I think Town will struggle to pull in 3k after the Southport game and todays result?

Quoted from chaos33

Maybe there's something to be said about attendances. This aspect will drive the decision I think. If people start voting with their feet, then the decision will effectively make itself. I think it's almost certain that there'll be less than 3000 there on Tuesday. Maybe as few as 2500. If that result is anything other than a win, I can't see that there would be anywhere left to go.

For me, there's a small window of opportunity to act and give a new manager a chance to address the shortcomings and save the season. If we dally much longer, we'll be too far adrift and running out of time. The writing is on the wall and Hurst has had long enough. We are going round in circles.

The bigger problem that I've got is that I've got no faith in the owner.

I agree about the attendance will be a massive indicator.

I know at least 5 who wont be going on Tuesday including me, its nothing im proud of but I have lost any buzz I used to have over the last few years cant go to watch the same excrement over and over until something is done.

I say anything below 2500 is a massive vote of no confidence.

Quoted from GrimRob

I agreee if it works then it's money well spent, the problem is Fenty has to dip his hand in his pocket now with no guarantee of success. And what the chapter in that book I keep on harping on about says is statistically that changing managers on average makes very little difference - as it hasn't for us in our recent history.

I am glad I don't have  to decide anyway. I suspect the current situaton is not bad enough to tempt him (and the rest of the board) but who knows.

100k on top of 3 million, if he was playing poker, would it be time to go all in?

Quoted from chaos33

Maybe there's something to be said about attendances. This aspect will drive the decision I think. If people start voting with their feet then the pressure will mount. I think it's almost certain that there'll be less than 3000 there on Tuesday. Maybe as few as 2500. If that result is anything other than a win, I can't see that there would be anywhere left to go.

For me, there's a small window of opportunity to act and give a new manager a chance to address the shortcomings and save the season. If we dally much longer, we'll be too far adrift and running out of time. The writing is on the wall and Hurst has had long enough. We are going round in circles.

The bigger problem that I've got is that I've got no faith in the owner.

I agree attendances are the key thing. PH/RS added about 500-700 to the gate, we're still not at the 3000 level they were before they came but if they fall close to that then the board may act.

I was going to drive over from North Yorkshire, but I'm not now.

I said a while ago that the board wanted hurst gone after the playoffs, and fenty said ok but he's not stumping up the 40k it would've cost the club.

Quoted from ackomariner

I said a while ago that the board wanted hurst gone after the playoffs, and fenty said ok but he's not stumping up the 40k it would've cost the club.

you'll have to have a bucket collection next week then  :)

If true that was a very short sight decision,how much will keeping Hurst cost us us in declining gates receipts.

Mr Fenty please take notice of the posters on her that have considerable insight into the problems of the club.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

100k on top of 3 million, if he was playing poker, would it be time to go all in?

You have to wonder in all seriousness why JF did not go all in this Summer when he saw all the runners the League was up for grabs and 2-3 high profile signings (the type to make the hair stand up on your neck) would have seen us romp the League. I still think we could go up if JF gets rid of this negative tactically clueless incumbent we have holding the reigns at present and gets someone in who can gee the players and fans up.A winning Town side will attract gates in excess of 4500 even in the League GET ON WITH IT.

We have done the management merrygoround before. Hurst will come good again.

I can only presume that as a previously very successful businessman JF insists of having key performance indicators in the manager's contract.

I can also only presume home attendance is one of these KPIs and we may see action should this be sub 3000 on Tuesday.

Quoted from jonnyboy82

I think his rose tinters have steamed up.

he cant see intercourse all.

what seperates you from some of the others who want hurst out (TheGreatRonRafferty or chaos33 for example) is yours and a certain few other's manner to post snide, sarcastic remarks like some sort of flipping online lynch-mob having a go at people whose opinions differ from yours.

engage in the argument properly, because otherwise it's just coming across as childish.

we're all town fans, albeit town fans with different ideas on how to solve the situation we're currently in.

Quoted from KK_DOG

We have done the management merrygoround before. Hurst will come good again.

Its hardly the management merrygoround when he has been here for nearly 4 years is it ?

times up.

Do they still include season ticket holders within the attendance even if they don't turn up?

They say a true supporter supports the team through thick and thin, I can't even be arrsed to turn up on Tuesday at the moment even though it's paid for, maybe I'll feel different in a few days.  :-/

Quoted from MarinerWY

what seperates you from some of the others who want hurst out (TheGreatRonRafferty or chaos33 for example) is your manner to post snide, sarcastic remarks like some sort of flipping online lynching of people whose opinions differ from yours.

engage in the argument properly, because otherwise it's just coming across as childish.

we're all town fans, albeit town fans with different ideas on how to solve the situation we're currently in.

you mean the likes of forza ivano and fcukthescunts and quite a few others all giving it the big un and got quite personal when I was saying hurst should go for weeks.

when ever we won (not often like) I was taunted and always got as you say silly little remarks aimed at me on here for being negative etc.

so let me say I don't care what you think and let me tell you I take no pleasure in being right but please don't try to tell me how to put my opinion across on here .

I have engaged correctly many times but sometimes its nice to give out what you have been given.

thanks.

Quoted from GrimRob

If JF has the 100 grand to spare that (my guestimate) it would cost to sack Hurst and appoint a replacement, then I'm indifferent how he spends his money as I don't think any other manager would make much difference (see Chapter 6 of Soccernomics  - Do Managers Matter? The Cult of the White Messiah). Personally if he's going to put 100 grand in I'd prefer it on strengthening the squad in January as that would almost certainly make a material difference.

Overestimate that mate. Hurst is on a one year rolling deal so what's his salary? 40k? 50k tops? Can't be on six figures. If we sack Doig too then it would add up but knowing this club, we won't go for a clean sweep and we'll go for an out of work manager so no compensation.

Quoted from MarinerWY

what seperates you from some of the others who want hurst out (TheGreatRonRafferty or chaos33 for example) is yours and a certain few other's manner to post snide, sarcastic remarks like some sort of flipping online lynch-mob having a go at people whose opinions differ from yours.

engage in the argument properly, because otherwise it's just coming across as childish.

we're all town fans, albeit town fans with different ideas on how to solve the situation we're currently in.

Go back a good few months mate and we were called morons, racists, bell ends, bullies.........say what you want, it's a forum, to do exactly that

Quoted from GrimRob

I'm guessing about half that for PH, the rest for a replacement and any players he might want. I stand to be corrected  though if that is not the figure.

Rob appreciate that PH is on a rolling 12 month contract and I do not disagree with some of your estimated costs. There may however be a clause which upon termination by the club only gives PH a certain per centage of his annal salary, a bit like Moyes only got a paltry £5M when Man Utd terminated his six year contract.

I genuinely feel that the crowd will be down by a 1000 this Tuesday and this financial loss to the club will be the factor that brings his reign to an end, if he survives the board meeting on Monday.

Quoted from 75

Overestimate that mate. Hurst is on a one year rolling deal so what's his salary? 40k? 50k tops? Can't be on six figures. If we sack Doig too then it would add up but knowing this club, we won't go for a clean sweep and we'll go for an out of work manager so no compensation.

Signing on fee/expenses for new manager, possible compensation for new manager, transfer kitty for new manager. Then most of the players are PH players, they may see their contracts out without 100% effort if they think they won't be here next year. Might have to pay a few of them off to get them out the door.

Quoted from 75

Overestimate that mate. Hurst is on a one year rolling deal so what's his salary? 40k? 50k tops? Can't be on six figures. If we sack Doig too then it would add up but knowing this club, we won't go for a clean sweep and we'll go for an out of work manager so no compensation.

Pretty sure he's actually only on a six month rolling contract (http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/Grimsby-Town-boss-Paul-Hurst-agrees-improved-deal/story-20408830-detail/story.html) so if this is still the case it'll be (relative) peanuts to get rid of him.

What about Neil Redfearn from Leeds? Highly rated young, academy coach who knows the non-league from his playing days. Did a great job for them as caretaker but got snubbed by their mad Italian president. Could be a eager to have a go at the 'big job'.

Can't make my mind up whether I want a highly rated, 'exciting', left-field appointment (someone young, eager) or a wily, old fox like Ronnie Moore. The only thing I do know is i've got no confidence in this clown and he should've gone when he stabbed his mate in the back.

Quoted from jonnyboy82

you mean the likes of forza ivano and fcukthescunts and quite a few others all giving it the big un and got quite personal when I was saying hurst should go for weeks.

when ever we won (not often like) I was taunted and always got as you say silly little remarks aimed at me on here for being negative etc.

so let me say I don't care what you think and let me tell you I take no pleasure in being right but please don't try to tell me how to put my opinion across on here .

I have engaged correctly many times but sometimes its nice to give out what you have been given.

thanks.

Not by me. So why then do you think it nice to respond in this way to others regardless of whether or not they have treated you this way?

Quoted from jonnyboy82

you mean the likes of forza ivano and fcukthescunts and quite a few others all giving it the big un and got quite personal when I was saying hurst should go for weeks.

when ever we won (not often like) I was taunted and always got as you say silly little remarks aimed at me on here for being negative etc.

so let me say I don't care what you think and let me tell you I take no pleasure in being right but please don't try to tell me how to put my opinion across on here .

I have engaged correctly many times but sometimes its nice to give out what you have been given.

thanks.

just because some people have aimed things at you in the past doesn't give you the right to do it to others, especially as those other's you've named are not the poster you directed your retort at.

"please don't try to tell me how to put my opinion across on here." you can do it however you like, however i'm telling you that i percieve it as childish and therefore have much less respect for your "arguments" when put in such a manner, than those of posters who engage in a less mammary-for-tat manner.

a question, has DavidB ever "given it the big-un" or "got personal" with you, or are you just grouping all persons who are not firmly in the hurst-out camp together, as though they are one entity?

"sorry your honour, but i punched this geezer in the street the other day. he hadn't done anything no, but last week someone punched me, so you know, it was nice to do it myself to someone else" - that won't exactly get you the "aggravated" part of assault added to your crime.

Quoted from GrimRob

If JF goes than our budget would take a huge nosedive and we'd have a much less competitive team. I struggle to see why anyone would want to see this, it's like saying I think I can do better without my left hand.

Wrexham do ok. They are fan owned I believe?

See the Wrexham comparison thread.

Quoted from Alfie

Pretty sure he's actually only on a six month rolling contract (http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/Grimsby-Town-boss-Paul-Hurst-agrees-improved-deal/story-20408830-detail/story.html) so if this is still the case it'll be (relative) peanuts to get rid of him.

What about Neil Redfearn from Leeds? Highly rated young, academy coach who knows the non-league from his playing days. Did a great job for them as caretaker but got snubbed by their mad Italian president. Could be a eager to have a go at the 'big job'.

Can't make my mind up whether I want a highly rated, 'exciting', left-field appointment (someone young, eager) or a wily, old fox like Ronnie Moore. The only thing I do know is i've got no confidence in this clown and he should've gone when he stabbed his mate in the back.

I'm not being funny or anything I want Hurst gone as much as you but what makes you say he stabbed Scott in the back I'm just curios?

Town are playing at the moment like a mid table end of season outfit  we the fans know it so le's see some leadership Time for a change Mr Fenty

Town are playing at the moment like a mid table end of season outfit  we the fans know it so le's see some leadership Time for a change Mr Fenty

Quoted from ackomariner

Go back a good few months mate and we were called morons, racists, bell ends, bullies.........say what you want, it's a forum, to do exactly that

of course. it's just a pretty terrible way to get your arguments across, that's all, whatever your perspective on the actual debate. i'm on the fence on the hurst in or out issue, but the arguments that sway me either way aren't going to be the immature remarks.

this is a forum. you can say what you want. just informing you of how childish and tedius it all is, and the warped logic of "some people did it to me, therefore i can do it to others, regardless of whether they are the same people" point of view.

Quoted from grimsby pete

Based on the Scots are not very good at playing football,

BUT

Are the best in this country at managing clubs,

Would you like a list  :)

Yes please, seeing as Ferguson's retired. ;)

Steve Kean
David Moyes
George Kerr
;)

dear John......

Quoted from ginnywings

Wrexham do ok. They are fan owned I believe?

But is still feels like volunteering for an amputation because some people manage without a leg. Putting the past aside what is JF doing wrong with his money? We've had some success on the pitch and got in the play-offs two years running because we are one of the strongst squads. People complain incessantly that that is not enough but without his money the best we could hope for is a serious promotion campaign every now and then rather than nearly every season as we have now.

Quoted from GrimRob

But is still feels like volunteering for an amputation because some people manage without a leg. Putting the past aside what is JF doing wrong with his money? We've had some success on the pitch and got in the play-offs two years running because we are one of the strongst squads. People complain incessantly that that is not enough but without his money the best we could hope for is a serious promotion campaign every now and then rather than nearly every season as we have now.

Before he got involved, we were doing very nicely thank you. He's made countless bad decision, the last of which appears to be giving Hurst another chance. I keep saying it, promotion will not come cheap, how badly do we want it?

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Before he got involved, we were doing very nicely thank you. He's made countless bad decision, the last of which appears to be giving Hurst another chance. I keep saying it, promotion will not come cheap, how badly do we want it?

I said in the last few years. You can't compare now with before he started it's not a fair comparison.

Quoted from Abdul19

Yes please, seeing as Ferguson's retired. ;)

Steve Kean
David Moyes
George Kerr
;)

Paul Lambert

Gordon  Strachan

Alley McCoist

George burley

Tommy Burns

Alex McLeish

Quoted from grimsby pete

Paul Lambert

Gordon  Strachan

Alley McCoist

George burley

Tommy Burns

Alex McLeish

Well yes. I think that's conclusive proof that anyone scottish would definitely be better than PH (although Tommy Burns may well be pushing it)

Quoted from GrimRob

I said in the last few years. You can't compare now with before he started it's not a fair comparison.

Sorry Rob but you can't draw the line where it suits your argument. If the debate is about the pros and cons of John Fenty's reign/involvement you have to take the whole period surely.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Sorry Rob but you can't draw the line where it suits your argument. If the debate is about the pros and cons of John Fenty's reign/involvement you have to take the whole period surely.

Yes, especially the part where we/he appointed an untried youth team coach to save us from losing our league status. That went well.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

How about his obsession with Shop and dropping your best player? How do you feel we can achieve promotion with him in charge?

If you are referring to Neilson although I was surprised at him being dropped how long is it since he's been "our best player"? He certainly wasn't on Tuesday!

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Before he got involved, we were doing very nicely thank you. He's made countless bad decision, the last of which appears to be giving Hurst another chance. I keep saying it, promotion will not come cheap, how badly do we want it?

;D ;D ;D ;D How many years before? 5,10? When he "got involved" we were looking down the barrel of a very large calibre gun.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Sorry Rob but you can't draw the line where it suits your argument. If the debate is about the pros and cons of John Fenty's reign/involvement you have to take the whole period surely.

Of course you can! You can't change the past but you can the future. It seems absurd to me to say you don't want someone's money when they are doing everything they reasonably can with it.

Quoted from Alfie

Pretty sure he's actually only on a six month rolling contract (http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/Grimsby-Town-boss-Paul-Hurst-agrees-improved-deal/story-20408830-detail/story.html) so if this is still the case it'll be (relative) peanuts to get rid of him.

What about Neil Redfearn from Leeds? Highly rated young, academy coach who knows the non-league from his playing days. Did a great job for them as caretaker but got snubbed by their mad Italian president. Could be a eager to have a go at the 'big job'.

Can't make my mind up whether I want a highly rated, 'exciting', left-field appointment (someone young, eager) or a wily, old fox like Ronnie Moore. The only thing I do know is i've got no confidence in this clown and he should've gone when he stabbed his mate in the back.

If we get Relegation Redfearn I'll put my foot through my PC monititor and send him the bill.

Quoted from GrimRob

Of course you can! You can't change the past but you can the future. It seems absurd to me to say you don't want someone's money when they are doing everything they reasonably can with it.

The club aren't getting this money for free, it's being continually added to his benign loans, saddling the club with even more debt.

You can't change the past no, but as Einstein said, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Whatever the length of his reign you look at, the only trajectory is downwards.  8 years ago we had just lost out in the play off final for a return to League One, we're now a mid table non league side in our fifth season in the Conference saddled with even more debt.

There is absolutely nothing in JF's record to suggest he is capable of taking the club forward.  If it was a managers record you were looking at nobody would even consider employing him with only relegations and excessive spending on his CV.

Write your loans off, hand that 200k worth of shares back to the Trust, and offer to sell your shares pound for pound, then we'll see the possibility of the club going forward - but whilst JF and his 'benign' loans remain nobody is going to be interested in taking the club on and driving it forward.

I don't understand why people think fenty should give it all up, lose everything he has out in, while, particularly while there is not even a whiff of a takeover / new backer / paymaster / sugar daddy / oligarch / etc

Quoted from LongEatonMariner

I don't understand why people think fenty should give it all up, lose everything he has out in, while, particularly while there is not even a whiff of a takeover / new backer / paymaster / sugar daddy / oligarch / etc

Because he's failed miserably! And continues to fail. He's a master at failure. And the club is suffering. He's racking up debt like i don't know what. And continues to make the same mistakes. Not mention his embarrassing media kick outs.

He's cut my club to shreads so much so I'll nickname him jihad. i  John!!!

Quoted from Mariner21

He's cut my club to shreads so much so I'll nickname him jihadi  John!!!

the fishy hyperbole hits new levels...

Quoted from GrimRob

Signing on fee/expenses for new manager, possible compensation for new manager, transfer kitty for new manager. Then most of the players are PH players, they may see their contracts out without 100% effort if they think they won't be here next year. Might have to pay a few of them off to get them out the door.

Then again they might see it as an opportunity to impress a new manager to secure a new contract next season. It cuts both ways!

Quoted from Mariner21

He's cut my club to shreads so much so I'll nickname him jihad. i  John!!!

What a tool you are. Not only is it a ludicrous amount of bile to aim towards a man who's only crime is being a rubbish chairman but it's trivialising the recent abhorrent events in Syria.

Quoted from DavidB

Alternative message for John Fenty:

In conjunction with your colleagues, please take an objective and considered view of the current situation and don't be swayed by the fact that people are starting multiple threads on this newsgroup (a crowd baying for blood doesn't mean that they are right!).

The simple question is whether you - collectively - believe that the current manager and squad can make up the 6 points we are adrift in the remaining two-thirds of the season. Have they the ability, the motivation and the confidence to do so? What is the spirit like in the dressing room and on the training pitch? Have they the determination and desire to improve performances? Do they believe they can rediscover the form they showed in the Gateshead and Alfreton victories, or the battling team effort at Halifax? What will best help them gain confidence and consistency? If they achieve this and results and performances improve, will the confidence and support of the fans also improve?

Objectivity and nerve are vital qualities when external pressure mounts!

You forgot to add  , Thanks in advance.........Mrs HURST

Still fail to grasp why so many tolerate the regime that's overseen the most calamitous period in the clubs history.

Quoted from Mariner21

Because he's failed miserably! And continues to fail. He's a master at failure. And the club is suffering. He's racking up debt like i don't know what. And continues to make the same mistakes. Not mention his embarrassing media kick outs.

He's cut my club to shreads so much so I'll nickname him jihad. i  John!!!

ABUSE REMOVED

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Still fail to grasp why so many tolerate the regime that's overseen the most calamitous period in the clubs history.

Stockholme Syndrome.

We've gone past the "told you so" stage and we're now deep into the "out-wankering" stage. Sacking imminent.

Quoted from GrimRob

Of course you can! You can't change the past but you can the future. It seems absurd to me to say you don't want someone's money when they are doing everything they reasonably can with it.

Bloody hell Rob. Are you in the cabinet? Disregarding evidence to suit a policy? That's like judging a striker on the basis of his last shot.

Regarding the money thing, I would ask why we need it in the first place?

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Bloody hell Rob. Are you in the cabinet? Disregarding evidence to suit a policy? That's like judging a striker on the basis of his last shot.

Regarding the money thing, I would ask why we need it in the first place?

Try without his money then. If you are so dense not to appreciate the power of money then I can't even be arsed to explain. If I was Fenty I would tell you lot to intercourse off, take my money to somewhere like Lincoln and laugh in your faces at the chaos and subsequent demise at GTFC that ensued. But fortunately he's not. Yet.

Quoted from LongEatonMariner

I don't understand why people think fenty should give it all up, lose everything he has out in, while, particularly while there is not even a whiff of a takeover / new backer / paymaster / sugar daddy / oligarch / etc

They aren't going to form an orderly queue if they see the state of our indebtedness, are they?

Quoted from denni266

You forgot to add  , Thanks in advance.........Mrs HURST

I'm getting very close to stopping posting on this message board - comments like this on top of some of the posts which appear to be attacking people personally (whether it's Paul Hurst, John Fenty, John-Lewis or other posters) make me question whether I want to continue to contribute my views here.

Perhaps you'd like to re-read what I actually wrote. I suggested several questions which could/should be asked to help consider the situation objectively and rationally (they're applicable to other organisations too when trying to stand back and work out what's best for the future). They are the sort of questions that I'd expect a Board to ask when facing a challenging decision - and to assess calmly and with some distance from the emotions expressed on a fans' message board in the immediate aftermath of a disappointing couple of results and performances.

I expressed no views as to the answers - I can see / listen to 90 minute games but that's only part of the whole situation at the club. I'd hope that John Fenty and others would have the confidence to consider such questions objectively and not just to react to the pressure of opinions expressed on message board (or at service stations).

Quoted from GrimRob

Signing on fee/expenses for new manager, possible compensation for new manager, transfer kitty for new manager. Then most of the players are PH players, they may see their contracts out without 100% effort if they think they won't be here next year. Might have to pay a few of them off to get them out the door.

Do you see 100% out there at the moment then?

Because I certainly don't  :(

Quoted from GrimRob

If JF has the 100 grand to spare that (my guestimate) it would cost to sack Hurst and appoint a replacement, then I'm indifferent how he spends his money as I don't think any other manager would make much difference (see Chapter 6 of Soccernomics  - Do Managers Matter? The Cult of the White Messiah). Personally if he's going to put 100 grand in I'd prefer it on strengthening the squad in January as that would almost certainly make a material difference.

In life you have to pay for your mistakes (see chapter 4 of How to intercourse up a football club by J Fenty)

Quoted from Mariner21

Because he's failed miserably! And continues to fail. He's a master at failure. And the club is suffering. He's racking up debt like i don't know what. And continues to make the same mistakes. Not mention his embarrassing media kick outs.

He's cut my club to shreads so much so I'll nickname him jihad. i  John!!!

terrible and sick!

Quoted from denni266

You forgot to add  , Thanks in advance.........Mrs HURST

For christ's sake, grow up. What are you hoping to acheive by snidely attacking fellow fans whose opinions just happen to differ to yours?

Quoted from Mariner21

Because he's failed miserably! And continues to fail. He's a master at failure. And the club is suffering. He's racking up debt like i don't know what. And continues to make the same mistakes. Not mention his embarrassing media kick outs.

He's cut my club to shreads so much so I'll nickname him jihad. i  John!!!

Having an attack on fenty is one thing but to call someone that is disgusting after what some families have been through due to that evil name you have mentioned.

Its all ok having banter about certain things but even i know were to draw the line.

Quoted from Mariner21

Because he's failed miserably! And continues to fail. He's a master at failure. And the club is suffering. He's racking up debt like i don't know what. And continues to make the same mistakes. Not mention his embarrassing media kick outs.

He's cut my club to shreads so much so I'll nickname him jihad. i  John!!!

A new low has been reached

Quoted from GrimRob

Try without his money then. If you are so dense not to appreciate the power of money then I can't even be arsed to explain. If I was Fenty I would tell you lot to intercourse off, take my money to somewhere like Lincoln and laugh in your faces at the chaos and subsequent demise at GTFC that ensued. But fortunately he's not. Yet.

If you are so dense (or scared of JF) not to be able to see who put us in so much debt then you are beyond explaining to.  FFS

Maybe you could take this site to somewhere like Lincoln and rename it "The Impy" then laugh in our faces etc etc etc.

Quoted from Civvy at last

If you are so dense (or scared of JF) not to be able to see who put us in so much debt then you are beyond explaining to.  FFS

Maybe you could take this site to somewhere like Lincoln and rename it "The Impy" then laugh in our faces etc etc etc.

Or have another bet on us to lose  ;)

Quoted from GrimRob

Try without his money then. If you are so dense not to appreciate the power of money then I can't even be arsed to explain. If I was Fenty I would tell you lot to intercourse off, take my money to somewhere like Lincoln and laugh in your faces at the chaos and subsequent demise at GTFC that ensued. But fortunately he's not. Yet.

Would that be THE Lincoln City who haven't got any money, have lower crowds than we do and are currently only 3 points behind us?

Quoted from arryarryarry

Would that be THE Lincoln City who haven't got any money, have lower crowds than we do and are currently only 3 points behind us?

And who are truly peed off with their manager,still would not mind Bencherife though.

Quoted from Mariner21

Because he's failed miserably! And continues to fail. He's a master at failure. And the club is suffering. He's racking up debt like i don't know what. And continues to make the same mistakes. Not mention his embarrassing media kick outs.

He's cut my club to shreads so much so I'll nickname him jihad. i  John!!!

Admin do the right thing and ban this clueless helmet

Quoted from GrimRob

I said in the last few years. You can't compare now with before he started it's not a fair comparison.

Name your date then. There is no point in the Fenty reign where things haven't been on a gradual slide. Oh yes, I remember, we had a manager that he pushed out of the way because he went back on a new deal. Yes 2005-6, things have improved massively since then haven't they?

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Name your date then. There is no point in the Fenty reign where things haven't been on a gradual slide. Oh yes, I remember, we had a manager that he pushed out of the way because he went back on a new deal. Yes 2005-6, things have improved massively since then haven't they?

All I really want to know is how we can be better off spending less money NOW - as a few of the most extreme critics of the regime here pontificate - then we are currently. To my mind we have a competitive squad, one of the better managers, and a reasonable record over the last couple of seasons. We couldn't afford any of the squad or the manager with less money, the odds would be stacked against us to do as well as we even are in this season without it, we may even have to go part time for a bit.  The only real answer you get back from anyone is the usual diatribe about years of decline.

Quoted from Mariner21

Because he's failed miserably! And continues to fail. He's a master at failure. And the club is suffering. He's racking up debt like i don't know what. And continues to make the same mistakes. Not mention his embarrassing media kick outs.

He's cut my club to shreads so much so I'll nickname him jihad. i  John!!!

You keep saying  " my club "

Well it's not yours is it?

If anything although I think of it as OUR club,

It is more John Fenty's than anybody,

How much money have you put in and how many unpaid hours have you put it ?

Quoted from GrimRob

All I really want to know is how we can be better off spending less money NOW - as a few of the most extreme critics of the regime here pontificate - then we are currently. To my mind we have a competitive squad, one of the better managers, and a reasonable record over the last couple of seasons. We couldn't afford any of the squad or the manager with less money, the odds would be stacked against us to do as well as we even are in this season without it, we may even have to go part time for a bit.  The only real answer you get back from anyone is the usual diatribe about years of decline.

Have you not read any of my posts? I've stated over and over that you can't/won't get out of this league on the cheap - not a top 10 budget, probably not a top 5 budget - I fear that you need to have a top 3 budget to get out of this league.

Usual diatribe about years of decline? However rose-tinted your specs are, we've dropped around 60 places down the league ladder plus the 8 this season under this regime. Come on, get your facts right!

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Have you not read any of my posts? I've stated over and over that you can't/won't get out of this league on the cheap - not a top 10 budget, probably not a top 5 budget - I fear that you need to have a top 3 budget to get out of this league.

Usual diatribe about years of decline? However rose-tinted your specs are, we've dropped around 60 places down the league ladder plus the 8 this season under this regime. Come on, get your facts right!

I assume you have done a thorough analysis of the available data to reach this remarkable conclusion. I seem to remember AFC Wimbledon and York getting promoted when they weren't amongst the pre-season favourites. But since you have the data to hand no doubt you will correct me.

I don't dispute the years of decline happened. I was here for them all. But they have nothing to do with the answer to my question.

Quoted from 2578

Admin do the right thing and ban this clueless helmet

Oh hello Mr Putin. I didn't realise it was you.

Quoted from GrimRob

I assume you have done a thorough analysis of the available data to reach this remarkable conclusion. I seem to remember AFC Wimbledon and York getting promoted when they weren't amongst the pre-season favourites. But since you have the data to hand no doubt you will correct me.

I don't dispute the years of decline happened. I was here for them all. But they have nothing to do with the answer to my question.

Of course outsiders get promoted but more often than not, the clubs with the biggest budgets are the most successful. Being as you're prepared to bet on us to lose, I'm sure that you have had this months housekeeping budget on Burnley to win the Prem. Informed opinion suggests that we need a stronger budget to get of the Conference, especially if we employ a manager who's short on tactics, team selection and charisma.

Regarding the decline, are you rescinding the word 'diatribe' now that you've admitted it happened? Let's not let the facts get in the way.

Quoted from MarinerWY

For christ's sake, grow up. What are you hoping to acheive by snidely attacking fellow fans whose opinions just happen to differ to yours?

Oh for fucksake get a life you muppet it was a joke.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Oh for fucksake get a life you muppet it was a joke.

sorry, thought this forum was generally about debating issues relating to GTFC, not throwing playground put-downs and childish "jokes" around to those who you disagree with. seems i was mistaken.

in between some of yours, denni's, johnnyboy's and a couple of other's best efforts, there's some good debate going on about what is the best course for our club to take at this moment. it's worth a read.

Quoted from GrimRob

All I really want to know is how we can be better off spending less money NOW - as a few of the most extreme critics of the regime here pontificate - then we are currently. To my mind we have a competitive squad, one of the better managers, and a reasonable record over the last couple of seasons. We couldn't afford any of the squad or the manager with less money, the odds would be stacked against us to do as well as we even are in this season without it, we may even have to go part time for a bit.  The only real answer you get back from anyone is the usual diatribe about years of decline.

I don't think that is the only answer without the current regime, if the club was offered debt free (loans written off) then I'm sure people would be willing to put money into making it a success again. Why should somebody new pay for the failure of the current money man? If he wants to have a real go at making the club a success then he should be a bit more ambitious with the budget and backing the manager to bring in players that we will be able to sell on.

Quoted from MarinerWY

sorry, thought this forum was generally about debating issues relating to GTFC, not throwing playground put-downs and childish "jokes" around to those who you disagree with. seems i was mistaken.

in between some of yours, denni's, johnnyboy's and a couple of other's best efforts, there's some good debate going on about what is the best course for our club to take at this moment. it's worth a read.

You clearly don't come on here very often then.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

I don't think that is the only answer without the current regime, if the club was offered debt free (loans written off) then I'm sure people would be willing to put money into making it a success again. Why should somebody new pay for the failure of the current money man? If he wants to have a real go at making the club a success then he should be a bit more ambitious with the budget and backing the manager to bring in players that we will be able to sell on.

Very eloquently put!

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Usual diatribe about years of decline? However rose-tinted your specs are, we've dropped around 60 places down the league ladder plus the 8 this season under this regime. Come on, get your facts right!

It's not that hard to grasp. Rob is asking how would removing Fenty's money from the club help now? Pointing out how many places we've dropped in the league is NOT an answer to that question!

Quoted from GrimRob

All I really want to know is how we can be better off spending less money NOW - as a few of the most extreme critics of the regime here pontificate - then we are currently. To my mind we have a competitive squad, one of the better managers, and a reasonable record over the last couple of seasons. We couldn't afford any of the squad or the manager with less money, the odds would be stacked against us to do as well as we even are in this season without it, we may even have to go part time for a bit.  The only real answer you get back from anyone is the usual diatribe about years of decline.

11th most 'competitive squad'
11th most 'better manager'
'a reasonable record over the last couple of seasons'.... you must be moving over to the dark side.

TAGG,

Isn't 2 consecutive top 4 finishes a 'reasonable record?'

Quoted from MeanwoodMariner

It's not that hard to grasp. Rob is asking how would removing Fenty's money from the club help now? Pointing out how many places we've dropped in the league is NOT an answer to that question!

Answer to your question? Not as much as removing 3 million quids worth of loans/debt from the club's books.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Answer to your question? Not as much as removing 3 million quids worth of loans/debt from the club's books.

Rob's Question: How would removing Fenty's money at this time help the club?
Your Answer: Not as much as removing 3 million quids worth of loans/debt from the club's books.

You must see that your answer simply doesn't make sense.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Answer to your question? Not as much as removing 3 million quids worth of loans/debt from the club's books.

My position on this is that right now, we do need the money JF is putting in and I'm grateful for it. But the "benign" loans hang like a millstone around the club's neck and put off any other potential investors. In an ideal world, JF would still put money in but write this money off as a lot of it was spent largely from his incompetence in appointing managers. But that is a world occupied by fairies and talking teddy bears and I realise that it's all well and good to suggest that when it's not my money but the reality is that it would be asking a lot from the bloke.

Quoted from mariner91

My position on this is that right now, we do need the money JF is putting in and I'm grateful for it. But the "benign" loans hang like a millstone around the club's neck and put off any other potential investors. In an ideal world, JF would still put money in but write this money off as a lot of it was spent largely from his incompetence in appointing managers. But that is a world occupied by fairies and talking teddy bears and I realise that it's all well and good to suggest that when it's not my money but the reality is that it would be asking a lot from the bloke.

Take your point but I sometimes feel that GTFC has been someone's hobby horse for the past 10 years and, not financially but emotionally, the fans are paying the price.

Semantically, I don't and never did want the club to go bust or go into admin, but the price tag for any new investor includes the cost of 10 years of one mans follies, how can that be right?

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Take your point but I sometimes feel that GTFC has been someone's hobby horse for the past 10 years and, not financially but emotionally, the fans are paying the price.

Semantically, I don't and never did want the club to go bust or go into admin, but the price tag for any new investor includes the cost of 10 years of one mans follies, how can that be right?

It's a difficult position as I truly don't think it would be fair on a new investor to take on the debt that is caused, one could argue, by the mismanagement of the current board. Someone has to carry the can for that debt and ideally it would be the man who created it but it is a lot of money to just give up, I don't know if I could in that position.

I don't think it's been his hobby horse though. I think JF has always truly wanted the best for the club and that he still does, he is a fan at the end of the day. The problem is, he just isn't a very good chairman/not-chairman.

Quoted from gtfc71

TAGG,

Isn't 2 consecutive top 4 finishes a 'reasonable record?'

No

Quoted from mariner91

It's a difficult position as I truly don't think it would be fair on a new investor to take on the debt that is caused, one could argue, by the mismanagement of the current board. Someone has to carry the can for that debt and ideally it would be the man who created it but it is a lot of money to just give up, I don't know if I could in that position.

I don't think it's been his hobby horse though. I think JF has always truly wanted the best for the club and that he still does, he is a fan at the end of the day. The problem is, he just isn't a very good chairman/not-chairman.

Sure, he's a fan, but there are many other fans out there that willingly devote a large percentage of their disposable income on an overvalued product. For instance, did you know that Hull only charged £16 a ticket yesterday?

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Sure, he's a fan, but there are many other fans out there that willingly devote a large percentage of their disposable income on an overvalued product. For instance, did you know that Hull only charged £16 a ticket yesterday?

So If I have this right you want JF to walk and take his loans with him but put more money if for a new manager and competitive team first.
Then get the club to lower prices thus reducing the income further.
cant see us surviving for long on that business plan TBH

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Sure, he's a fan, but there are many other fans out there that willingly devote a large percentage of their disposable income on an overvalued product. For instance, did you know that Hull only charged £16 a ticket yesterday?

To be honest Old Codger I wish he wasn't a fan.

I wish he was a clever team player, detached from this "fan" business (that's our job) and that he had built a great management team around him to preserve/enhance the Clubs status.  

I wish he wasn't so difficult to work with  (allegedly) and had concrete proposals for the new stadium which didn't keep turning to dust every few years, and I wish he had a vision for the type of team/manager we could be proud of.

I wish he didn't want 2 players for the price of one (allegedly) and employed  proper PR people to avoid the cringeworthy interviews.

I wish for a lot, but I aint gonna get any of it because he has wasted a fortune getting us to mid table in Non League, and now no one will touch us with a barge pole because they are waiting for him to extricate himself from the mess he has caused.

In a word we are stuck. The only thing that can save us from being down here for the foreseeable future is for us to stumble on a team or manager or both that do the business despite everything.  

I feel sympathy for the manager(s) because I am sure the phrase "competitive budget" doesn't tell the whole story, but I feel most sorry for the fans who despite everything keep turning up ( me included) because its in our blood.

  

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Sure, he's a fan, but there are many other fans out there that willingly devote a large percentage of their disposable income on an overvalued product. For instance, did you know that Hull only charged £16 a ticket yesterday?

I do think it is over priced for the quality of football and the facilities but our budget would be even lower without it so currently I'm happy to pay that and I'm a student. But it's one thing talking about fans paying £18 a ticket but quite another to suggest another fan writes off £3 million.

Quoted from cleethorpes_mariner

So If I have this right you want JF to walk and take his loans with him but put more money if for a new manager and competitive team first.
Then get the club to lower prices thus reducing the income further.
cant see us surviving for long on that business plan TBH

No you haven't understood me at all. I want whoever is running the club to decide what they want for the future. What's the greater priority? The legacy? Promotion? The fans? A new stadium? Financial stability? Because I don't think you can reasonably expect to deliver all of the above with our current position on and off the field.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Sure, he's a fan, but there are many other fans out there that willingly devote a large percentage of their disposable income on an overvalued product. For instance, did you know that Hull only charged £16 a ticket yesterday?

But charged £50 last week.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Sure, he's a fan, but there are many other fans out there that willingly devote a large percentage of their disposable income on an overvalued product. For instance, did you know that Hull only charged £16 a ticket yesterday?

Does this mean you are considering taking your money there, so Hull becomes your club, leaving GTFC to Fenty? ;-)

Quoted from mariner91

I do think it is over priced for the quality of football and the facilities but our budget would be even lower without it so currently I'm happy to pay that and I'm a student. But it's one thing talking about fans paying £18 a ticket but quite another to suggest another fan writes off £3 million.

And why is that debt £3 million.
Success generates profit - oops.

Quoted from promotion plaice

And why is that debt £3 million.
Success generates profit - oops.

Not disputing that for a second. But are you telling me you'd happily just write it off in that situation?

Quoted from LongEatonMariner

Does this mean you are considering taking your money there, so Hull becomes your club, leaving GTFC to Fenty? ;-)

So by making a point that even a Prem club are needing to reduce admission prices to push gates up, I am on the brink of ditching the club I've supported for 45 years?? Bonkers.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

So by making a point that even a Prem club are needing to reduce admission prices to push gates up, I am on the brink of ditching the club I've supported for 45 years?? Bonkers.

Yes but what is equally bonkers is saying we need to push the boat out financially and then bemoaning the amount paid for a ticket. With a lower entrance fee, the budget would be lower and we'd probably be slightly worse than we already are. Can't have it both ways.

Quoted from mariner91

Yes but what is equally bonkers is saying we need to push the boat out financially and then bemoaning the amount paid for a ticket. With a lower entrance fee, the budget would be lower and we'd probably be slightly worse than we already are. Can't have it both ways.

Didn't bemoan the cost of the ticket as long as you get VFM. Would you rather have 4000 in BP paying £12 a ticket or 3000 paying £16, equates to the same gate money! The broader point is the 'Stick or Twist' angle - how badly do we need promotion - I believe that we are as far away from a return to league football as we have been for some time - probably since Scott and Hurst took over.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Didn't bemoan the cost of the ticket as long as you get VFM. Would you rather have 4000 in BP paying £12 a ticket or 3000 paying £16, equates to the same gate money! The broader point is the 'Stick or Twist' angle - how badly do we need promotion - I believe that we are as far away from a return to league football as we have been for some time - probably since Scott and Hurst took over.

There is no guarantee that by putting gate prices lower will increase gates, last year they tried a game where you could pay what you liked and felt a fair price but the gate was no larger than any other game.

Secondly other income like TV money and Prem handouts to Hull allow them to reduce ticket costs, we in this poxy league don't get that luxury

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Didn't bemoan the cost of the ticket as long as you get VFM. Would you rather have 4000 in BP paying £12 a ticket or 3000 paying £16, equates to the same gate money! The broader point is the 'Stick or Twist' angle - how badly do we need promotion - I believe that we are as far away from a return to league football as we have been for some time - probably since Scott and Hurst took over.

We would not get 4,000 gates if we reduced the price to £8 at the moment,

Fans want to see a winning team barring that,

A team that plays attractive football,

Once we start playing attractive football and winning on a regular basis,

We shall get 5,000 + gates,

BUT

We have got to stop playing too defensive and be productive before we starting winning most games at home,

Our away form is ok if you do not mind seeing us grinding out a result,

At home we have got to go for it, scare the opposition with our speed and power,

Then the fans will return even if it was £20 to get in.

PS.  That was not a hint to put the price up John. ;)

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Didn't bemoan the cost of the ticket as long as you get VFM. Would you rather have 4000 in BP paying £12 a ticket or 3000 paying £16, equates to the same gate money!

Being a pedant it's not actually the same as you need to consider VAT.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Didn't bemoan the cost of the ticket as long as you get VFM. Would you rather have 4000 in BP paying £12 a ticket or 3000 paying £16, equates to the same gate money! The broader point is the 'Stick or Twist' angle - how badly do we need promotion - I believe that we are as far away from a return to league football as we have been for some time - probably since Scott and Hurst took over.

It's a horrible situation in all honesty. I don't think the starting eleven is far off being title challengers. In my eyes we could do with two good attacking players to put us up there. Strength in depth and the ability of the manager is another matter though.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Take your point but I sometimes feel that GTFC has been someone's hobby horse for the past 10 years and, not financially but emotionally, the fans are paying the price.

Semantically, I don't and never did want the club to go bust or go into admin, but the price tag for any new investor includes the cost of 10 years of one mans follies, how can that be right?

But surely JF's loans or investments , whatever you want to call them, were put in place to avoid the club going bust or into admin? His choice of managers might have cost money in removing them but certainly not to the magnitude of the debt. The majority of this must have been used in financially supporting the club to cover trading losses. If he had refused to prop the club up then what would have been the result - admin or going bankrupt surely? He could have done what a previous board member did in loaning the club money then demanding it back immediately when he spit his dummy out! Even before our problems started I don't recall any wealthy businessmen queuing up to invest in GTFC. In fact I seem to recall that JF became chairman because nobody else wanted the position.
I am neither pro or anti JF and am the first to admit that his time with the club has seen a black period in our history. Conversely I have yet to hear any " concrete " evidence concerning other people willing to take over the mantle of running the club. It's all well and good saying nobody will want the club with the " benign debt" hanging over us like The Sword of Damoclese but that debt was incurred in propping up the club in the first case. I don't think there is a single poster on here who would be prepared to walk away from our club and write that debt off if they were in a position to.

Quoted from grimsby pete

We would not get 4,000 gates if we reduced the price to £8 at the moment,

Fans want to see a winning team barring that,

A team that plays attractive football,

Once we start playing attractive football and winning on a regular basis,

We shall get 5,000 + gates,

BUT

We have got to stop playing too defensive and be productive before we starting winning most games at home,

Our away form is ok if you do not mind seeing us grinding out a result,

At home we have got to go for it, scare the opposition with our speed and power,

Then the fans will return even if it was £20 to get in.

PS.  That was not a hint to put the price up John. ;)

I don't think for a second we would get crowds at that level playing in this league unless it was the last game of the season and we had already won promotion. I do think that if we were playing well and in the top 4 then the gate would rise to between 3,800 - 4200. Our average gate for the Slade " almost promotion" season was 5151 and that was a division higher.

Quoted from rancido

But surely JF's loans or investments , whatever you want to call them, were put in place to avoid the club going bust or into admin? His choice of managers might have cost money in removing them but certainly not to the magnitude of the debt. The majority of this must have been used in financially supporting the club to cover trading losses. If he had refused to prop the club up then what would have been the result - admin or going bankrupt surely? He could have done what a previous board member did in loaning the club money then demanding it back immediately when he spit his dummy out! Even before our problems started I don't recall any wealthy businessmen queuing up to invest in GTFC. In fact I seem to recall that JF became chairman because nobody else wanted the position.
I am neither pro or anti JF and am the first to admit that his time with the club has seen a black period in our history. Conversely I have yet to hear any " concrete " evidence concerning other people willing to take over the mantle of running the club. It's all well and good saying nobody will want the club with the " benign debt" hanging over us like The Sword of Damoclese but that debt was incurred in propping up the club in the first case. I don't think there is a single poster on here who would be prepared to walk away from our club and write that debt off if they were in a position to.

Good fair comment

Quoted from rancido

I don't think for a second we would get crowds at that level playing in this league unless it was the last game of the season and we had already won promotion. I do think that if we were playing well and in the top 4 then the gate would rise to between 3,800 - 4200. Our average gate for the Slade " almost promotion" season was 5151 and that was a division higher.

If we start playing attractive football and say win 10 out the next 12 home games,

I would bet if we where in the top 2 in the league the last 5 games would be over 5,000.

This will only happen if we get the right man in,

Regarding to the Slade era, I am sure we had an average home record winning mostly away,

Also lots of fans saying they did not liked the way we played * long ball  *

Quoted from grimsby pete

If we start playing attractive football and say win 10 out the next 12 home games,

I would bet if we where in the top 2 in the league the last 5 games would be over 5,000.

This will only happen if we get the right man in,

Regarding to the Slade era, I am sure we had an average home record winning mostly away,

Also lots of fans saying they did not liked the way we played * long ball  *

Bit late with your message Pete, GYFR was online about an hour ago!

We won more home games than away games in 05/06

Quoted from rancido

But surely JF's loans or investments , whatever you want to call them, were put in place to avoid the club going bust or into admin? His choice of managers might have cost money in removing them but certainly not to the magnitude of the debt. The majority of this must have been used in financially supporting the club to cover trading losses. If he had refused to prop the club up then what would have been the result - admin or going bankrupt surely? He could have done what a previous board member did in loaning the club money then demanding it back immediately when he spit his dummy out! Even before our problems started I don't recall any wealthy businessmen queuing up to invest in GTFC. In fact I seem to recall that JF became chairman because nobody else wanted the position.
I am neither pro or anti JF and am the first to admit that his time with the club has seen a black period in our history. Conversely I have yet to hear any " concrete " evidence concerning other people willing to take over the mantle of running the club. It's all well and good saying nobody will want the club with the " benign debt" hanging over us like The Sword of Damoclese but that debt was incurred in propping up the club in the first case. I don't think there is a single poster on here who would be prepared to walk away from our club and write that debt off if they were in a position to.

The debt has been primarily accrued over the years because of JF's policy of deciding to spend way above the clubs income level on the playing budget.

Over his entire tenure he has had the ability to either increase or decrease the deficit depending on what he has allowed managers to spend in terms of wages.

The biggest cost of most businesses is wages - and ultimately he can control that.

He knows, or should know, the likely income of the club over a season plus the likely fixed costs.  The only variable left, and one that he is in full control of, is the playing budget.

It's not like he has suddenly been hit by a massive, unexpected bill that he has had to help the club out.  He can control the level of money that he needs to put into the club.

He could decide to give the manager a playing budget of 200% of income and then at the end of the season let everybody know how much money he has had to put into the club to 'keep it going'.  Then out come the pro JF brigade telling everyone who is critical of his tenure that without him there wouldn't be a club.  It's a load of rubbish, he's decided to put that money in to the club because he has decided to make the playing budget x% of the predicted income.

Add in all the money the club has wasted on paying managers/players off, plus other things such as going to court over Scott & Hurst etc and, IMO, I can understand why any potential investor in the club wouldn't want to pay that money back to him.

Why should anyone hand that money over when they haven't been involved in making those decisions that have cost the club that money???

I would also argue that the club could even have been better off without his 'input', after all where has all of that money got us?  

If you don't have that safety net of that money you tend to make better decisions.  You don't hand out 3 year deals to players and then pay them off a few months later.  You probably spend more time and energy attempting to increase income in order to pay for things.  You don't go to court over a mangerial appointment knowing you might be found out.  You don't allow the manager to bring another 4 players in in January, move some out if you want some in.  You dont' allow the manager to go out and bring another defender in on loan when we are crying out for some attacking intent, you use the defensive youth players you have given pro contracts to plug the defensive gap.

As for the idea that there is nobody else out there, Mike Parker is proof of someone being out there, who nobody had even heard of until it was announced, with money who wanted to be involved with the club - who knows how many more would show their hands if JF was to walk away.

Notwithstanding the fact that if we had someone who knew what they were doing running the club the 'need' for this additional funding might not be necessary, there's a number of clubs outperforming us, being supported by far less fans, generating less income, they can do it, why can't we?

Reading some of the pro JF posts on here you would think that the club generates zero income.

Quoted from Quagmire

The debt has been primarily accrued over the years because of JF's policy of deciding to spend way above the clubs income level on the playing budget.

Over his entire tenure he has had the ability to either increase or decrease the deficit depending on what he has allowed managers to spend in terms of wages.

The biggest cost of most businesses is wages - and ultimately he can control that.

He knows, or should know, the likely income of the club over a season plus the likely fixed costs.  The only variable left, and one that he is in full control of, is the playing budget.

It's not like he has suddenly been hit by a massive, unexpected bill that he has had to help the club out.  He can control the level of money that he needs to put into the club.

He could decide to give the manager a playing budget of 200% of income and then at the end of the season let everybody know how much money he has had to put into the club to 'keep it going'.  Then out come the pro JF brigade telling everyone who is critical of his tenure that without him there wouldn't be a club.  It's a load of rubbish, he's decided to put that money in to the club because he has decided to make the playing budget x% of the predicted income.

Add in all the money the club has wasted on paying managers/players off, plus other things such as going to court over Scott & Hurst etc and, IMO, I can understand why any potential investor in the club wouldn't want to pay that money back to him.

Why should anyone hand that money over when they haven't been involved in making those decisions that have cost the club that money???

I would also argue that the club could even have been better off without his 'input', after all where has all of that money got us?  

If you don't have that safety net of that money you tend to make better decisions.  You don't hand out 3 year deals to players and then pay them off a few months later.  You probably spend more time and energy attempting to increase income in order to pay for things.  You don't go to court over a mangerial appointment knowing you might be found out.  You don't allow the manager to bring another 4 players in in January, move some out if you want some in.  You dont' allow the manager to go out and bring another defender in on loan when we are crying out for some attacking intent, you use the defensive youth players you have given pro contracts to plug the defensive gap.

As for the idea that there is nobody else out there, Mike Parker is proof of someone being out there, who nobody had even heard of until it was announced, with money who wanted to be involved with the club - who knows how many more would show their hands if JF was to walk away.

Notwithstanding the fact that if we had someone who knew what they were doing running the club the 'need' for this additional funding might not be necessary, there's a number of clubs outperforming us, being supported by far less fans, generating less income, they can do it, why can't we?

Reading some of the pro JF posts on here you would think that the club generates zero income.

Post of the week. End of.

Quoted from Quagmire

The debt has been primarily accrued over the years because of JF's policy of deciding to spend way above the clubs income level on the playing budget.

Over his entire tenure he has had the ability to either increase or decrease the deficit depending on what he has allowed managers to spend in terms of wages.

The biggest cost of most businesses is wages - and ultimately he can control that.

He knows, or should know, the likely income of the club over a season plus the likely fixed costs.  The only variable left, and one that he is in full control of, is the playing budget.

It's not like he has suddenly been hit by a massive, unexpected bill that he has had to help the club out.  He can control the level of money that he needs to put into the club.

He could decide to give the manager a playing budget of 200% of income and then at the end of the season let everybody know how much money he has had to put into the club to 'keep it going'.  Then out come the pro JF brigade telling everyone who is critical of his tenure that without him there wouldn't be a club.  It's a load of rubbish, he's decided to put that money in to the club because he has decided to make the playing budget x% of the predicted income.

Add in all the money the club has wasted on paying managers/players off, plus other things such as going to court over Scott & Hurst etc and, IMO, I can understand why any potential investor in the club wouldn't want to pay that money back to him.

Why should anyone hand that money over when they haven't been involved in making those decisions that have cost the club that money???

I would also argue that the club could even have been better off without his 'input', after all where has all of that money got us?  

If you don't have that safety net of that money you tend to make better decisions.  You don't hand out 3 year deals to players and then pay them off a few months later.  You probably spend more time and energy attempting to increase income in order to pay for things.  You don't go to court over a mangerial appointment knowing you might be found out.  You don't allow the manager to bring another 4 players in in January, move some out if you want some in.  You dont' allow the manager to go out and bring another defender in on loan when we are crying out for some attacking intent, you use the defensive youth players you have given pro contracts to plug the defensive gap.

As for the idea that there is nobody else out there, Mike Parker is proof of someone being out there, who nobody had even heard of until it was announced, with money who wanted to be involved with the club - who knows how many more would show their hands if JF was to walk away.

Notwithstanding the fact that if we had someone who knew what they were doing running the club the 'need' for this additional funding might not be necessary, there's a number of clubs outperforming us, being supported by far less fans, generating less income, they can do it, why can't we?

Reading some of the pro JF posts on here you would think that the club generates zero income.

More sense in this post than any other I've seen on here for long enough.

Did JF rack up £3M of debt or did he inherit a £2m debt from the ITV Digital fiasco? In terms of how the Club is run from a financial point of view most of the decisions the board make seem fairly sensible and they don't throw money around like confetti which is good. I know it isn`t my money but I would walk away and write the debt of personally then the problem is no longer mine and my conscience would be clear I did the best I could but accept it wasnt good enough.However I would much rather JF got in a high profile Manager and dangled a performance related contract with hordes of add ons for success this is very attainable and this Season is the best chance Town have had of a Promotion from this League due to the lack of opposition.

Some thought provoking points apart from this one:

Quoted from Quagmire

Why should anyone hand that money over when they haven't been involved in making those decisions that have cost the club that money???

The reason for the debt is completely irrelevant. The "business" owes that money, end of story. Potential investors either accept that or don't buy the club.

You are effectively asking Fenty to give the club £3m for nothing in return. You may feel he should because it's all his fault. I'm guessing he disagrees!

Quoted from MeanwoodMariner

Some thought provoking points apart from this one:


The reason for the debt is completely irrelevant. The "business" owes that money, end of story. Potential investors either accept that or don't buy the club.

You are effectively asking Fenty to give the club £3m for nothing in return. You may feel he should because it's all his fault. I'm guessing he disagrees!

I'm sure he disagrees!  I can certainly see the arguement that a proportion of that debt is down to 'normal' operating costs etc but there is a large portion in there, IMO, which is directly down to the way that he has decided to run the club.

Incidentally, forgot to include this in my original post, but is it a deliberate club policy now to only offer one year deals to players because of having fingers burned in the past (Makofo, Sweeney etc)?  And if so, is this policy making it harder for the manager to attract the quality players to the club?

Is it a case of, for example, Bogle doesn't want to come to Town, not necessarily because of location, but because we are only offering a one year deal?

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Bit late with your message Pete, GYFR was online about an hour ago!

What did he say ?

We offered a transfer fee for Bogle I think? I doubt we'd do that, then only offer him a 12 month contract?

And on the other hand, a big factor in us getting such a decent fee for Bennett was that he'd signed a 4 year contract.

Quoted from grimsby pete

What did he say ?

He didn't say owt, just noticed he was browsing when I logged in!

Quoted from MuddyWaters

He didn't say owt, just noticed he was browsing when I logged in!

Testing the water before he talks to Hurst maybe,

It would be interesting to know how much this club has wasted on crap managers, crap players and crap feasibility studies.

Quoted from Quagmire

The debt has been primarily accrued over the years because of JF's policy of deciding to spend way above the clubs income level on the playing budget.

Over his entire tenure he has had the ability to either increase or decrease the deficit depending on what he has allowed managers to spend in terms of wages.

The biggest cost of most businesses is wages - and ultimately he can control that.

He knows, or should know, the likely income of the club over a season plus the likely fixed costs.  The only variable left, and one that he is in full control of, is the playing budget.

It's not like he has suddenly been hit by a massive, unexpected bill that he has had to help the club out.  He can control the level of money that he needs to put into the club.

He could decide to give the manager a playing budget of 200% of income and then at the end of the season let everybody know how much money he has had to put into the club to 'keep it going'.  Then out come the pro JF brigade telling everyone who is critical of his tenure that without him there wouldn't be a club.  It's a load of rubbish, he's decided to put that money in to the club because he has decided to make the playing budget x% of the predicted income.

Add in all the money the club has wasted on paying managers/players off, plus other things such as going to court over Scott & Hurst etc and, IMO, I can understand why any potential investor in the club wouldn't want to pay that money back to him.

Why should anyone hand that money over when they haven't been involved in making those decisions that have cost the club that money???

I would also argue that the club could even have been better off without his 'input', after all where has all of that money got us?  

If you don't have that safety net of that money you tend to make better decisions.  You don't hand out 3 year deals to players and then pay them off a few months later.  You probably spend more time and energy attempting to increase income in order to pay for things.  You don't go to court over a mangerial appointment knowing you might be found out.  You don't allow the manager to bring another 4 players in in January, move some out if you want some in.  You dont' allow the manager to go out and bring another defender in on loan when we are crying out for some attacking intent, you use the defensive youth players you have given pro contracts to plug the defensive gap.

As for the idea that there is nobody else out there, Mike Parker is proof of someone being out there, who nobody had even heard of until it was announced, with money who wanted to be involved with the club - who knows how many more would show their hands if JF was to walk away.

Notwithstanding the fact that if we had someone who knew what they were doing running the club the 'need' for this additional funding might not be necessary, there's a number of clubs outperforming us, being supported by far less fans, generating less income, they can do it, why can't we?

Reading some of the pro JF posts on here you would think that the club generates zero income.

With regards to what I have emphasised. This implies that JF has tried to pay for better players to improve the team and ultimately get promoted. This seems to fly in the face of a lot of posters who keep saying " you have to speculate to accumulate". You can't have it both ways!

Quoted from 1mickylyons

Did JF rack up £3M of debt or did he inherit a £2m debt from the ITV Digital fiasco? In terms of how the Club is run from a financial point of view most of the decisions the board make seem fairly sensible and they don't throw money around like confetti which is good. I know it isn`t my money but I would walk away and write the debt of personally then the problem is no longer mine and my conscience would be clear I did the best I could but accept it wasnt good enough.However I would much rather JF got in a high profile Manager and dangled a performance related contract with hordes of add ons for success this is very attainable and this Season is the best chance Town have had of a Promotion from this League due to the lack of opposition.

getyourfactsright should be the man to divulge those figures.

ITV digital fiasco - The Club paid that back in full in agreed instalments negotiated by the board / JF.  

At the same time as paying back the tax debt we also paid back JF over 4 seasons in instalments for paying off Ramsden who it is alleged was going to liquidate the club to get his money back.

At the same time the club was paying off managers and players the board had sacked and the shortfall in money in bringing in new managers and players had to be funded / loaned by the board.

Quoted from Marinerz93

getyourfactsright should be the man to divulge those figures.

ITV digital fiasco - The Club paid that back in full in agreed instalments negotiated by the board / JF.  

At the same time as paying back the tax debt we also paid back JF over 4 seasons in instalments for paying off Ramsden who it is alleged was going to liquidate the club to get his money back.

At the same time the club was paying off managers and players the board had sacked and the shortfall in money in bringing in new managers and players had to be funded / loaned by the board.

Not sure this is totally correct

ITV digital money was spent in advance by the pervious board, when It did not arrive JF ended up paying the shortfall due to the previous board walking and demanding either  their money back or bankruptcy.
The only deal to repay debts was the tax bill and a very large overdraft.
unfortunately even if JF was to itemise where the 3 mil had gone no one on here would believe him so why would he bother.
  

Quoted from cleethorpes_mariner

Not sure this is totally correct

ITV digital money was spent in advance by the pervious board, when It did not arrive JF ended up paying the shortfall due to the previous board walking and demanding either  their money back or bankruptcy.
The only deal to repay debts was the tax bill and a very large overdraft.
unfortunately even if JF was to itemise where the 3 mil had gone no one on here would believe him so why would he bother.
  

haha brilliant I would demand he produce a receipt for the packet of bourbons I saw him scoffing before a game during Newells tenure ;D

Quoted from 1mickylyons

haha brilliant I would demand he produce a receipt for the packet of bourbons I saw him scoffing before a game during Newells tenure ;D

I saw him demolish a flag once  ;)

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I saw him demolish a flag once  ;)

I think you'll find that the flag was "dismantled" in accordance with proper health and safety regulations.

Quoted from cleethorpes_mariner

Not sure this is totally correct

ITV digital money was spent in advance by the pervious board, when It did not arrive JF ended up paying the shortfall due to the previous board walking and demanding either  their money back or bankruptcy.
The only deal to repay debts was the tax bill and a very large overdraft.
unfortunately even if JF was to itemise where the 3 mil had gone no one on here would believe him so why would he bother.
  

But wasn't this why we had the large tax bill? I seem to recall that the ITV Digital money was going to be used to pay off the tax bill and when the cash didn't materialise we were scuppered.The cash that was supposed to pay the tax had been used to keep the club going with the expectation that the ITV Digital money would cover the tax bill. The Board member demanding his cash back turned a bad situation into a catastrophe.

Quoted from mariner91

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I saw him demolish a flag once  ;)

I think you'll find that the flag was "dismantled" in accordance with proper health and safety regulations.

You are both wrong, he "deconstructed" the flag to the point where it was safe and couldn’t be considered a danger  ;D

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/10382054.Grimsby_football_director_broke_10_year_old_County_fan_s_flag/?ref=rss

Quoted from Quagmire

The debt has been primarily accrued over the years because of JF's policy of deciding to spend way above the clubs income level on the playing budget.

Over his entire tenure he has had the ability to either increase or decrease the deficit depending on what he has allowed managers to spend in terms of wages.

The biggest cost of most businesses is wages - and ultimately he can control that.

He knows, or should know, the likely income of the club over a season plus the likely fixed costs.  The only variable left, and one that he is in full control of, is the playing budget.

It's not like he has suddenly been hit by a massive, unexpected bill that he has had to help the club out.  He can control the level of money that he needs to put into the club.

He could decide to give the manager a playing budget of 200% of income and then at the end of the season let everybody know how much money he has had to put into the club to 'keep it going'.  Then out come the pro JF brigade telling everyone who is critical of his tenure that without him there wouldn't be a club.  It's a load of rubbish, he's decided to put that money in to the club because he has decided to make the playing budget x% of the predicted income.

Add in all the money the club has wasted on paying managers/players off, plus other things such as going to court over Scott & Hurst etc and, IMO, I can understand why any potential investor in the club wouldn't want to pay that money back to him.

Why should anyone hand that money over when they haven't been involved in making those decisions that have cost the club that money???

I would also argue that the club could even have been better off without his 'input', after all where has all of that money got us?  

If you don't have that safety net of that money you tend to make better decisions.  You don't hand out 3 year deals to players and then pay them off a few months later.  You probably spend more time and energy attempting to increase income in order to pay for things.  You don't go to court over a mangerial appointment knowing you might be found out.  You don't allow the manager to bring another 4 players in in January, move some out if you want some in.  You dont' allow the manager to go out and bring another defender in on loan when we are crying out for some attacking intent, you use the defensive youth players you have given pro contracts to plug the defensive gap.

As for the idea that there is nobody else out there, Mike Parker is proof of someone being out there, who nobody had even heard of until it was announced, with money who wanted to be involved with the club - who knows how many more would show their hands if JF was to walk away.

Notwithstanding the fact that if we had someone who knew what they were doing running the club the 'need' for this additional funding might not be necessary, there's a number of clubs outperforming us, being supported by far less fans, generating less income, they can do it, why can't we?

Reading some of the pro JF posts on here you would think that the club generates zero income.

Good post. The club has been spending beyond its means. Now that might have been with the best of intentions but sooner or later, as every good Conservative will tell you, that has to stop.

Now I'm sure John Fenty will be quick to point out that the decisions weren't his alone. It would be unfair to blame just one board member. I'm sure there's some collective responsibility for decisions, so the board(s) as a whole must take that responsibility.

The problem is the shareholders never held them to task over it. Who were they and what was their position?