If its to taken seriously, this man with no motivation to the squad on field needs to be gone. We've girl private footed about with this division too long now without having that feeling of 'we are going up this season'. Theres been no passion at all since he has been here barring the fa cup run and thats it.

People will criticise this thread but if you want the best out of a squad you need a manager with ruthlessness and game plans to make the opposition worried about playing us.

Another headache of a season and its only september.

I am very sorry to say , I agree.

i don't, sorry, i'll be back at christmas to judge hurst

come xmas we will still be out the mix, keep sitting on that fence pal

Quoted from OneLove

If its to taken seriously, this man with no motivation to the squad on field needs to be gone. We've girl private footed about with this division too long now without having that feeling of 'we are going up this season'. Theres been no passion at all since he has been here barring the fa cup run and thats it.

People will criticise this thread but if you want the best out of a squad you need a manager with ruthlessness and game plans to make the opposition worried about playing us.

Another headache of a season and its only september.

Should have gone end of last season..

The man has had 4 years at it and one thing he cant say is john fenty has not backed him...

Thanks for the effort paul but its time for a fresh consistent approach.

10 points off the leaders. 3 year project into it 4th and we are still in the conference. We are not consistent at all. I can see us winning the next 2 which will bide Hurst some more time and then probably lose the 2 after that. It will be the same story until it gets to a point where it is too late and it is another season wasted. But I suppose I might be setting my hopes to high for a top 12 finish in  the conference with a top 4 budget. He hasn't addressed the issues in which were the problems last season and he should be sacked asap. Southport haven't won away from home in 23 games for puck sake.

Chill out. 5 points off the play-offs and the third best goal difference in the league. We're potentially on course for another good season. Keep the faith.

Bore off

Quoted from ackomariner

Bore off

he's entitled to his opinion :/

Ok mr bore off, tell me the last time town had back to back consistent wins and played these little teams we should be hammering off the park???

Quoted from Mariner Ronnie

he's entitled to his opinion :/

Was saying bore off to the thread title, not robs post because I didn't highlight it.

Just had enough of going over the same stuff and mr fenty doing nothing about it

Quoted from OneLove

Ok mr bore off, tell me the last time town had back to back consistent wins and played these little teams we should be hammering off the park???

Don't know if you talking to me...... But the last two games were back to back wins

We win one - all is well in the world
We lose one - it's Hurst out

and so we go on and on and on and on and on...............................

Quoted from GrimRob

Chill out. 5 points off the play-offs and the third best goal difference in the league. We're potentially on course for another good season. Keep the faith.

The only thing most on here will say is a good season Rob is promotion,

We do not want to make the play offs and still be in this league next season,

We want to be a football league club,

Do you honestly think Hurst can do that ?

YES  OR NO.

Quoted from GrimRob

Chill out. 5 points off the play-offs and the third best goal difference in the league. We're potentially on course for another good season. Keep the faith.

FFS get your head out the sand or the other very dark place

I'm talking consistency of stringing more than two wins on the bounce, last time we did it was when the other oddo was here with him.

And yeh its so on and so on because its fcuking frustrating, we've got one of the best teams in this league and we now no how it works, or we should no how it works as we've been here long enough yet we carnt get that mentality driven into the squad that we are fear-able. Soutport haven't won an away game in how long yet come here and make us look boring.

Some people see things differently and id say the majority of people I no who follow town all think the same that a change is required if we are to take it seriously and get out this league THIS season!

One step forwards -two steps back !
That's how he has just managed to keep his job here for the last 4 seasons.
Any team that wants at least a point at Blundell park just has to pack the midfield and its theres

Quoted from OneLove

Ok mr bore off, tell me the last time town had back to back consistent wins and played these little teams we should be hammering off the park???

Respect the opposition otherwise you'll end up losing, so cut the "little teams" crap. Three points is three points, it doesn't matter who it's against. All that matters is the points tally after 46 games. PH will  last the full course this season, there's no point sacking him now, so just support the team until all 46 games have been and gone. Hopefully we'll make it to the post season of course so there may be more than 46 games.

Quoted from ackomariner

Don't know if you talking to me...... But the last two games were back to back wins

Forgive us. We should have had the bunting out and given Hurst the Freedom of the Borough* (which I believe is the right to drive haddock across Corporation Bridge if I'm not mistaken).


* fill in your own punchline about Grimsby Borough

Hurst get your act together or you are out,

It's up to you to get inside the players mind,

Tell them they are the best enough times and they might start believing you,

Stop telling them how good the other side are,

We are better than them, BELIEVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

il support town all me life but my opinion is my opinion your not going to change it grimrob. Its folk like you who are happy constantly to sit on the fence and keep stum when you clearly no alls not roses at GTFC.

Come next season when we are still here and without our best players will all see the light and realise, yeh perhaps peoples opinions where right in september. I hope I'm wrong but I carnt honestly see it!

Quoted from OneLove

il support town all me life but my opinion is my opinion your not going to change it grimrob. Its folk like you who are happy constantly to sit on the fence and keep stum when you clearly no alls not roses at GTFC.

Come next season when we are still here and without our best players will all see the light and realise, yeh perhaps peoples opinions where right in september. I hope I'm wrong but I carnt honestly see it!

I think you should perhaps have another read of Robs comments, he borders on the 'overly loyal' side of supportive when it comes to the manager.  However, like you and I he is entitled to his opinion so please accept that because you think something it doesn't automatically become fact.

Quoted from GrimRob

Respect the opposition otherwise you'll end up losing, so cut the "little teams" crap. Three points is three points, it doesn't matter who it's against. All that matters is the points tally after 46 games. PH will  last the full course this season, there's no point sacking him now, so just support the team until all 46 games have been and gone. Hopefully we'll make it to the post season of course so there may be more than 46 games.

Tend to agree with this, but I can completely see both sides. My view is that if we sack Hurst and get someone else in we might as well forget this season. It'll be a new manager with new ideas and players at this level aren't necessarily going to adjust immediately. Same goes for the manager, it's unlikely that whoever comes in would immediately get us going. If he was going to go he should have gone last season. Fed up of owners giving managers a budget and then sacking them stupidly early.  

It's just over a dozen games in, we've played well in spells and we've played badly in spells. We just need to find a bit of consistency and go on a run. We aren't a million miles away from where we need to be. I feel Arnold has an important role to play for us and I'm looking forward to him returning properly.

As fans we can do our bit and push the players that extra 10% with our support. I know it's difficult at times but we are where we are and at times it's not going to be pretty. Back the lads and back Hurst as long as they're here and eventually things will consistently come good.

See you at Dartford. UTM.  

Quoted from davmariner

Tend to agree with this, but I can completely see both sides. My view is that if we sack Hurst and get someone else in we might as well forget this season. It'll be a new manager with new ideas and players at this level aren't necessarily going to adjust immediately. Same goes for the manager, it's unlikely that whoever comes in would immediately get us going. If he was going to go he should have gone last season. Fed up of owners giving managers a budget and then sacking them stupidly early.  

It's just over a dozen games in, we've played well in spells and we've played badly in spells. We just need to find a bit of consistency and go on a run. We aren't a million miles away from where we need to be. I feel Arnold has an important role to play for us and I'm looking forward to him returning properly.

As fans we can do our bit and push the players that extra 10% with our support. I know it's difficult at times but we are where we are and at times it's not going to be pretty. Back the lads and back Hurst as long as they're here and eventually things will consistently come good.

See you at Dartford. UTM.  

This.

An excellent post, especially with regards to the effects of bringing in a new manager. Consistency seems to be our biggest problem right now, so sacking Hurst and disrupting the squad seems a counterintuitive solution.

Keep the faith. UTM

Quoted from davmariner

Tend to agree with this, but I can completely see both sides. My view is that if we sack Hurst and get someone else in we might as well forget this season. It'll be a new manager with new ideas and players at this level aren't necessarily going to adjust immediately. Same goes for the manager, it's unlikely that whoever comes in would immediately get us going. If he was going to go he should have gone last season. Fed up of owners giving managers a budget and then sacking them stupidly early.  

It's just over a dozen games in, we've played well in spells and we've played badly in spells. We just need to find a bit of consistency and go on a run. We aren't a million miles away from where we need to be. I feel Arnold has an important role to play for us and I'm looking forward to him returning properly.

As fans we can do our bit and push the players that extra 10% with our support. I know it's difficult at times but we are where we are and at times it's not going to be pretty. Back the lads and back Hurst as long as they're here and eventually things will consistently come good.

See you at Dartford. UTM.  

Did you go tonight because on that showing we are.

Have you not been keeping up on here, Arnold doesn't want to be here and it is no coincidence that he is known as sick note within the club and he is now off with another so called injury. ??)

Quoted from percentagefootball

This.

An excellent post, especially with regards to the effects of bringing in a new manager. Consistency seems to be our biggest problem right now, so sacking Hurst and disrupting the squad seems a counterintuitive solution.

Keep the faith. UTM

Definitely agree. It's extremely frustrating that we seem to show some real potential as a team, such as against Chester, and the follow it up with a lacklustre performance. However, there is definitely the ability within the squad and if we can show it with more consitency, with a good run we'll be right up there fighting the promotion/play-off spots.

It would completely disrupt and in my view probably write-off the season to get rid of Hurst now. By all means if we feel to make the play-offs, but that's a decision to be made next April. For now we should get behind both him and the players.

Well said dav !
Have to be honest I'm not convinced Hurst WILL be the man.
But equally refuse to yield to another kneejerk cos we've seen it all before, only to bounce back time and time again.
False dawn frustration perhaps, but that's football (and Town) unfortunately.

When did we last lose 3 games on the trot under Hurst ?
Inconsistency works both ways..

Given the vehemence of the 'Hurst out' posts tonight, I just thought I'd do a quick sense-check of the situation:

• we're 5 points off a play-off position at 30% of the  way through the season with 99 points still to play for
  

• we've a squad which many seem to think is quite competitive at this level, and better than last season (and put together by this manager)
  

• player availability has been badly affected by injuries, particularly early in the season (and the manager has taken steps to compensate for these, including some loans (e.g. Boyce) which have been regarded as very beneficial)
  

• there have been some great results, some very good battling performances (e.g. Halifax), and a few where either or both of these hasn't happened. (I can think of several top Premiership teams for whom the same could be said - maybe they'll be judged on where they are at the end of April.)
  

It doesn't feel like a disastrous situation to me. A poor run and it could become so - and vice versa: the season is still poised, everything to play for, with the goal of at least a play-off position still very achievable.

What it does feel like is that opinions on here (a subset of the total fan base!) are divided between some who don't believe Paul Hurst is capable of achieving at least a play-off position this season, those that do, those that are uncertain but want to see if he can, and those who are unsure but don't. After a loss like tonight it's the first group who are most vocal - the result has added fuel to their fire; after a win the criticisms are very muted (but it's the same manager!).

So, some perspective is called for! My concern is that the apparent prevalence of 'Hurst out' sentiment on this message board after a loss will persuade The Majority Shareholder that all the fans want change, and the Board will exercise their collective trigger fingers again and as a result of the inevitable disruption we will risk losing the opportunity we still have for an ultimately successful season. Only if it's really going pear-shaped  - a disjointed, uncommitted group of players, with a manager without the ability to rectify this  -should the Board consider a change at this stage. In my opinion, we're nowhere near that point now!

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Forgive us. We should have had the bunting out and given Hurst the Freedom of the Borough* (which I believe is the right to drive haddock across Corporation Bridge if I'm not mistaken).


* fill in your own punchline about Grimsby Borough

I think you might find Ackos opinion is broadly in line with your own....but then I guess that's what happens when you quote a post out of any context....

After the match it's so easy to criticise.  I actually agreed with the team selection and most people seemed happy with it prior to kick off that I spoke to.  With a big strong defence LJL was the right choice.
Unfortunately none of our players really were on their game and I thought Southport did the perfect away job on us (bit like we did at Kiddy).  I think Southport deserve some credit as they played better than I anticipated but we simply did not play well.  
Once those players cross the line, if they don't play well I really don't see how it's all the Managers fault.  I think Wenger would agree with me after some of Arsenals performances in the last 3 seasons and so would many top flight managers.

Football is unpredictable and that's why we all love it.  We will win some against the odds but also lose some that we don't expect to.  What matters is that we are at the top come the end of the season.  I've seen enough this season to tell me that if we can steer clear of more injuries we will be there.  Tonight with Pittman I think his extra pace would have been interesting.

Think the players have to write off last night and move on to Dartford and put things right as we should too.

I must point out that I too don't always agree with the Managers tactics but sacking him now would be a crazy thing to do.  Only a few weeks ago we won 6-1 away and 7-0 at home so it ain't broken, we just need a little repairing.

Noticed a few posts celebrating Hurst proving critics wrong on Saturday, why am I not surprised to see this thread today?  It is quite dull to go from Hursty for knighthood, to Hurst for the sack threads depending on the result.  

I am trying to keep the faith and have generally been a backer of Hurst, my general view is to agree with davmariner.  Also I never know who we get who we think will be better.

However I am starting to lose confidence in Hurst, after the playoff defeat last year I said we needed more for Hurst to keep his job, in flashes we have but then at times it sounds like same old.  And while we should respect the opposition we should have the confidence we can go out there and beat them, all the successful teams have that swagger in them, we do not seem to.  

In all fairness though I have not seen us live for a little while, am going on Saturday so will reserve a judgement until then, but I am getting very fed up of our form at the moment.

A change would be better now than later on. It baffles me that we made teams worried about us from the gateshead game to welling then when we play lincoln the whole system changes and we play into the oppositions arms like we are the worried ones. This is what I carnt hack, so the sooner hursty is replaced the better. I carnt see us getting anywhere near a play off place with him in charge and the likes of Torquay, barnet, bristol, wrexham, halifax up there.

Alan alger must be kicking himself putting us as his favourites to win the league!

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Forgive us. We should have had the bunting out and given Hurst the Freedom of the Borough* (which I believe is the right to drive haddock across Corporation Bridge if I'm not mistaken).


* fill in your own punchline about Grimsby Borough

Have a pop mate, that's upto you. Do me a favour and read my posts from last December and you'll know what side of the fence I'm on.

Quoted from barralad

I think you might find Ackos opinion is broadly in line with your own....but then I guess that's what happens when you quote a post out of any context....

Thx for that  ;)

ive always been a hurst fan.

but he does better in away games than home.

when we are struggling at home, he simply swaps players, not the formation.

today showed why we wont get out this league.

and in his Post match interview, he never mentioned winning the league, just the play-offs.

so if we out of the race for automatic after 14? games, then it shows he needs to go.

agree jarmo!

There is no running away from the fact that this was an unspeakably bad result against team with only one win in  the last six games.

For third time this season we have thrown away home points against very poor opposition.  It is not the form of serious play off contenders. We are over a quarter of the way through the season and still appear inconsistent and woefully short of ideas against even mediocre opposition.

I was optimistic when the season started, given the new signings. But now I just don't think we have the players or the management,  capable of the sustained consistency that would be needed to catch the leaders and top this division given the pace they are setting. So I see the probability of automatic promotion to be close to zero.

Can we make the play offs? It is of course still possible. But it will be tough. Let's not forget we took four points from our last two, very tough, away games.   But on current home form we simply will not make it.

We oscillate between such extremes on here it's ridiculous. The reality is we have some good results, we have some bad results, like every team. Freak results happen every week in this division - in every division - that's what makes football so interesting. If PH doesn't make the play-offs this year then by all means let's consider someone else but while we are in a position where we might achieve something (and we're still in the hunt for every possible prize, including automatic promotion) then we should stick with the course wer're on. Considering the horrendous injury problems we've had we're not in that bad a position IMHO. Yes some people might pick a different side, but that's always going to be the case, and it's easy to say with hindsight. We did well without LJL in the team, we have quite a poor record when he starts as the stats pages on the Fishy show, as well as the consensus of anecdotal opinion on here it seems to me. Hopefully he'll go back to a winning forumula at Dartford.

'Some good results,  some bad results'.

That is true. That's the problem. It's called inconsistency.  That will not get us out of this division.

Last night I stopped to give an old lady in a town scarf a lift as she was waiting at a bus stop, presuming she was going to the game and she was. 84 years old and having to go watch that shower of shite, getting on a bus for an hour there and back in the cold been following town since she was 16 year of age. I'd like anyone to challenge her opinions on what she thinks of town at this moment! We are in a rut, fans should be walking away from blundell park happy not angered most of the time because we either scraped a result or we played shite and lost to a part time team.

Quoted from RonMariner

'Some good results,  some bad results'.

That is true. That's the problem. It's called inconsistency.  That will not get us out of this division.

Agree Ronnie, that's why some on here including myself can not make our mind up about Hurst,

I think Fenty will stick with him for now, we might make the play offs or just miss out,

That will be the time to take a hard look at things and decide whether it will be worth giving somebody else the chance to do better,

Unless there is a bloke with a magic wand out there who wants the job now.

But should we be fighting for a place in the play-offs after 5 seasons ?

or should we be fighting for the top spot.

i think Hurst has done well to get us in the play-offs in the past, and signs some good players.

but he is showing how the most we will ever do is get in the play-offs, no ambition at all

It isn't nice to say I told you so but .............

Listening to another sensible downbeat interview from PH it is pretty clear he does not know the answer. He kept on about "finding a way to win" as though a one-nil was the limit of his ambitions. Bristol struggled against Southport he says. So what? That's their problem. Southport simply played a simple game and our simple minded team couldn't counter it.

He makes excuses about Arnold's injury. If he had been on the bench where would he have used him? Taken off a winger almost for certain. But he doesn't even try moving Neilson into the middle after 30 minutes of stalemate.  He says LJL and Hannah like playing together. Great, I hope they will be very happy, somewhere else. It clearly is never going to be a goals galore partnership is it?

The "highlights" of this game show the PH problems perfectly. If anyone is in any doubt that we will never be anything other than a hard to beat away side that might scape a playoff place - study those highlights and see how easy it was to out-think him.

He won't be sacked yet. I've said this before but JF cannot afford to do it yet and we will only see the usual arguments about achievements to date, wait and see where we are by Christmas and so on. Plus there is nobody with oomph and nous available unless we buy them from another club. I'd be surprised if things pan out differently. So - no change. It's only 1st October but we might as well face the inevitable. In May two teams will be promoted but Town will not be one of them.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

It isn't nice to say I told you so but .............

Listening to another sensible downbeat interview from PH it is pretty clear he does not know the answer. He kept on about "finding a way to win" as though a one-nil was the limit of his ambitions. Bristol struggled against Southport he says. So what? That's their problem. Southport simply played a simple game and our simple minded team couldn't counter it.

He makes excuses about Arnold's injury. If he had been on the bench where would he have used him? Taken off a winger almost for certain. But he doesn't even try moving Neilson into the middle after 30 minutes of stalemate.  He says LJL and Hannah like playing together. Great, I hope they will be very happy, somewhere else. It clearly is never going to be a goals galore partnership is it?

The "highlights" of this game show the PH problems perfectly. If anyone is in any doubt that we will never be anything other than a hard to beat away side that might scape a playoff place - study those highlights and see how easy it was to out-think him.

He won't be sacked yet. I've said this before but JF cannot afford to do it yet and we will only see the usual arguments about achievements to date, wait and see where we are by Christmas and so on. Plus there is nobody with oomph and nous available unless we buy them from another club. I'd be surprised if things pan out differently. So - no change. It's only 1st October but we might as well face the inevitable. In May two teams will be promoted but Town will not be one of them.

Give up if you want but I bet Forest Green and Eastleigh haven't - one and two points above us. I certainly wouldn't give up now even if we had less points than we do. We're in the Pellaton, there's a few riders ahead of us, but nobody we can't catch - especially with the tricky hurdles of the winter and FA Trophy still for everyone to negotiate. The King of the Winter jersey could be ours!

Quoted from GrimRob

Give up if you want but I bet Forest Green and Eastleigh haven't - one and two points above us. I certainly wouldn't give up now even if we had less points than we do. We're in the Pellaton, there's a few riders ahead of us, but nobody we can't catch - especially with the tricky hurdles of the winter and FA Trophy still for everyone to negotiate. The King of the Winter jersey could be ours!

Have we got the sprinter to snatch a victory,

Or an all rounder who will win the G.C.  ( general classification )

Quoted from Southport Fan

Grimsby have offered little and look a average mid table team

Quoted from Southport Fan

Tonight we were composed, well organised and worked hard and were good value for the win, this was not a fluke or a smash and grab victory, Southport were the better team.

Quoted from Southport Fan

Better team on night won. Can't see grimsby being anywhere near play offs

[url=http://www.portchat.net/viewtopic.php?t=30099]http://www.portchat.net/viewtopic.php?t=30099[/url]

So what has changed over the last 3/4 years  nothing.. we are still in this pub / part time league with a sunday league manager,, yes he has spotted some good players.. or rather been told about good players, managed to sign them, and hey presto he hasnt got a clue what to do with them , he has to go and the sooner the better. and them that want him to stay must be happy with just being a mid table team at best

Two options either sack Hurst or get a decent striker in ,that entails a financial outlay either way.A .decent striker would pay for himself re attendances .Do nothing another season in this god awful league and ever dwindling gates.Its your call Mr Fenty.

Quoted from GrimRob

Give up if you want but I bet Forest Green and Eastleigh haven't - one and two points above us. I certainly wouldn't give up now even if we had less points than we do. We're in the Pellaton, there's a few riders ahead of us, but nobody we can't catch - especially with the tricky hurdles of the winter and FA Trophy still for everyone to negotiate. The King of the Winter jersey could be ours!

I would love to think you are right Rob, being old enough to remember 1962 when we were many points adrift at Christmas then went on a long unbeaten run and romped into promotion. So yes, it can happen and I will be more than happy to recant my pessimism.

I am struggling to see LJL and Hannah as replacements for Rafferty and Portwood up front though!

Quoted from Jarmo.Is.God

But should we be fighting for a place in the play-offs after 5 seasons ?

or should we be fighting for the top spot.

We've got probably the 4th or 5th highest budget in the division so the play-offs should be the target at the very least, but you would certainly hope we would be up nearer the top spot as well.

It took Luton 5 years of spending masses of money (much more than we've got available) to win promotion and they were nowhere near automatic promotion during their first four seasons in the Conference. With the likes of Barnet, FGR, Eastleigh and Rovers all spending lots of money, I think the play-offs are the most likely route for us getting out of this division, though whether or not we'll manage it, I don't know. I had a lot more confidence that we could prior to last night's shambles, that's for sure.

Quoted from friskneymariner

Two options either sack Hurst or get a decent striker in ,that entails a financial outlay either way.A .decent striker would pay for himself re attendances .Do nothing another season in this god awful league and ever dwindling gates.Its your call Mr Fenty.

Whats the point?  Hurst will still stick with LJL and Hannah upfront no matter what

Quoted from Maringer

We've got probably the 4th or 5th highest budget in the division so the play-offs should be the target at the very least, but you would certainly hope we would be up nearer the top spot as well.

It took Luton 5 years of spending masses of money (much more than we've got available) to win promotion and they were nowhere near automatic promotion during their first four seasons in the Conference. With the likes of Barnet, FGR, Eastleigh and Rovers all spending lots of money, I think the play-offs are the most likely route for us getting out of this division, though whether or not we'll manage it, I don't know. I had a lot more confidence that we could prior to last night's shambles, that's for sure.

They were runners up in their first season and playoff finalists twice. Their problem was bad management appointments after sacking Richard Money and compounding it by  backing those appointments with cash to totally revamp their squad twice in three years. No doubt cash helps but really they went up last year because they eventually saw sense and appointed a motivational manager who knew what he he had to be doing to create a title winning team. Signing John Still was by far the best use of money that Luton made in all of those years.

Quoted from A.l.f.

After the match it's so easy to criticise.  I actually agreed with the team selection and most people seemed happy with it prior to kick off that I spoke to.  With a big strong defence LJL was the right choice.
Unfortunately none of our players really were on their game and I thought Southport did the perfect away job on us (bit like we did at Kiddy).  I think Southport deserve some credit as they played better than I anticipated but we simply did not play well.  
Once those players cross the line, if they don't play well I really don't see how it's all the Managers fault.  I think Wenger would agree with me after some of Arsenals performances in the last 3 seasons and so would many top flight managers.

Football is unpredictable and that's why we all love it.  We will win some against the odds but also lose some that we don't expect to.  What matters is that we are at the top come the end of the season.  I've seen enough this season to tell me that if we can steer clear of more injuries we will be there.  Tonight with Pittman I think his extra pace would have been interesting.

Think the players have to write off last night and move on to Dartford and put things right as we should too.

I must point out that I too don't always agree with the Managers tactics but sacking him now would be a crazy thing to do.  Only a few weeks ago we won 6-1 away and 7-0 at home so it ain't broken, we just need a little repairing.

I think this statement sums up last night. Too many players lacked the energy for a result last night. Obviously PH has the ultimate responsibility for the team but he can do nothing about players who don't perform to the standard that they can. Not that I'm making any excuses for PH but pointing out one reason for last nights performance. Neilson had a quiet game and as a consequence town didn't seem to pose any real threat and this seems to be a pattern. Maybe Neilson should have been given a free role but with Southport playing a packed mid-field I don't think he would have got much joy there to be honest.
I said on one of the threads a few weeks ago that if we were mid-table by the end of October then JF and the Board would have to take a close look at PH's position and I still think this is the case. We have the makings of a good team but we do need another striker and maybe another manager could get what we have to be more consistent. Certainly another manager brought in by October end could appraise what we have and use the January transfer window to add to it but it would have to be the right man. All is not lost but each game without a result makes our goal that much harder.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

I am struggling to see LJL and Hannah as replacements for Rafferty and Portwood up front though!

What a strike force, and what quality Cliff Portwood.

I also wonder if JF really wants to get out of this league.  Big fish in a small pond probably appeals more.

Quoted from Tangerine Chris

Whats the point?  Hurst will still stick with LJL and Hannah upfront no matter what

How many games have we actually started with that pair this season? I thought he was supposed to be a serial tinkerer? Now he's being accused of never changing from the tried and trusted.

Quoted from GrimRob

How many games have we actually started with that pair this season? I thought he was supposed to be a serial tinkerer? Now he's being accused of never changing from the tried and trusted.

Unfair comment Rob. One was injured early on and the other was suspended/injured later so the favoured option wasn't available for quite a number of games. I think everyone knows he would like to play this combination as often as possible if he could and fiddle the rest of his attack around them.

Quoted from GrimRob

How many games have we actually started with that pair this season?

One game. Last night. Southport was the first time LJL/Hannah have started together this season.

For a preferred pairing, that's not very many starts...

I expect they are likely to start the next game together as well as they are the only two senior strikers who are fit at present.

Hopefully, everyone will play a lot better next game. They would certainly struggle to play any worse than last night.

Quoted from OneLove

Last night I stopped to give an old lady in a town scarf a lift as she was waiting at a bus stop, presuming she was going to the game and she was. 84 years old and having to go watch that shower of shite, getting on a bus for an hour there and back in the cold been following town since she was 16 year of age. I'd like anyone to challenge her opinions on what she thinks of town at this moment! We are in a rut, fans should be walking away from blundell park happy not angered most of the time because we either scraped a result or we played shite and lost to a part time team.

Bloody Nora...If Hurst is upsetting the grey vote he might as well call it a day....

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

I would love to think you are right Rob, being old enough to remember 1962 when we were many points adrift at Christmas then went on a long unbeaten run and romped into promotion. So yes, it can happen and I will be more than happy to recant my pessimism.

I am struggling to see LJL and Hannah as replacements for Rafferty and Portwood up front though!

I bet!!!!!

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

They were runners up in their first season and playoff finalists twice. Their problem was bad management appointments after sacking Richard Money and compounding it by  backing those appointments with cash to totally revamp their squad twice in three years. No doubt cash helps but really they went up last year because they eventually saw sense and appointed a motivational manager who knew what he he had to be doing to create a title winning team. Signing John Still was by far the best use of money that Luton made in all of those years.

Agree with all that...especially the bit about Still. I shall now go for a lie down in a darkened room..

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

I would love to think you are right Rob, being old enough to remember 1962 when we were many points adrift at Christmas then went on a long unbeaten run and romped into promotion. So yes, it can happen and I will be more than happy to recant my pessimism.

I am struggling to see LJL and Hannah as replacements for Rafferty and Portwood up front though!

I remember that season when Rafferty scored 34 and Portwood 14   ( I think,)

How many will LJL and Hannah get ?

I would say neither of them will get into double figures.

Quoted from barralad

Bloody Nora...If Hurst is upsetting the grey vote he might as well call it a day....

You may well jest!  ;)

Quoted from barralad

Agree with all that...especially the bit about Still. I shall now go for a lie down in a darkened room..

I think I will as well. ;D

Different room though! ;)

I was at Burton the day we went down. It was no real surprise given the garbage served up in the previous weeks, but you always hope for a miracle.  Depressing though it was, I thought that there were some positives, Firstly the inept Woods would be fired immediately, and then we would bring in an experienced manager who would rebuild the squad. With our resources I figured we would be in the conference for two seasons and then be back in L2. Talk about misplaced optimism.

If you had told me then that four an a half seasons later we would be a mid table conference team, suffering home defeats by utter dross, I would never have believed it. All we have to show for those years are two play off semi's, and a Trophy final, all of which we lost. In other words, nothing.

I though Hurst did ok last year getting us to the playoffs, and I thought he should be given the chance to build on that. But this season does not look like progress to me.  

To be honest, I'm totally baffled as to why people think this hopeless manager is going to get us promoted this or any other year! He proves time and time again that he hasn't got a clue what to do if things are not working to plan. And that plan is usually hit and hope. He's boring and for the most part so is his team. There is no excitement or anticipation around the place anymore and there is definitely NO inspiration coming from him. He's got nothing to offer. Dull, dull, dull. Even Mike Lyons used to give us a laugh when he tried to be Roy Of The Rovers......and failing dismally of course! :)

Genuine Question ( know I will get slated for this).... Who realistically can we get in Hursts place that will not require lots of funds to improve situation? As sacking Hurst will require funds and a new Manager if from a different club will cost in compo. This is not a tongue in cheek like a previous post I put up on Saturday just a genuine ask.

Quoted from Fcukthescunts

Genuine Question ( know I will get slated for this).... Who realistically can we get in Hursts place that will not require lots of funds to improve situation? As sacking Hurst will require funds and a new Manager if from a different club will cost in compo. This is not a tongue in cheek like a previous post I put up on Saturday just a genuine ask.

Gary Brabin? His stats are very convincing anyway, and he's not doing anything at the moment!

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Brabin]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Brabin[/url]

[img]http://i.imgur.com/Kng8QBm.png[/img]

A realistic option by looks of it Nelly. Just wonder what he has been doing for last couple of years?

I've being a big supporter of Hurst and have backed him a hell of alot, but it's time for him to go.

Quoted from GrimRob

We oscillate between such extremes on here it's ridiculous. The reality is we have some good results, we have some bad results, like every MID TABLE team. Freak results happen every week in this division - in every division - that's what makes football so interesting. If PH doesn't make the play-offs this year then by all means let's consider someone else but while we are in a position where we might achieve something (and we're still in the hunt for every possible prize, including automatic promotion) then we should stick with the course wer're on. Considering the horrendous injury problems we've had we're not in that bad a position IMHO. Yes some people might pick a different side, but that's always going to be the case, and it's easy to say with hindsight. We did well without LJL in the team, we have quite a poor record when he starts as the stats pages on the Fishy show, as well as the consensus of anecdotal opinion on here it seems to me. Hopefully he'll go back to a winning forumula at Dartford.

Amended accordingly

I'm sorry but you can't not sack a useless manager through fear of maybe not finding another one.

Quoted from pontoonlew

I'm sorry but you can't not sack a useless manager through fear of maybe not finding another one.

Oh yes we can! You may have hit on the unique quality of our club there. ;)

Okay this is my take on the situation:

Firstly Hurst: He isn't a bad manager, he can set a team up ok, we aren't taken apart regularly and he does spot some good players. But he is tactically very average. Others teams do us tactically despite having inferior players.

He has no plan B - compare to Halifax - in the first half we were murdering them, in the second half their manager swapped it round, bypassed our midfield and they got the upperhand. Generally if we start badly that's it, we play rubbish for the entire game. Hurst doesn't seem to  be able to switch things round and change the game.

He also seems to have a blind spot with Lenny. When Lenny plays it's too easy to lump it up. We then lose our advantage of having more technically gifted players than most of our opposition. Lenny is an impact player who should be coming off the bench or playing on an oppositions weakness, we should not be building a team around him as Hurst does. On Chester I looked at the side and thought pre kick off thats a strong side I didn't think that last night. Oates should have started last night.

Jack Mackraith is a bad signing, he's too lightweight. We need to move him on in January and replace him with a better winger.

I think Doig and Hurst aren't good together. Hurst can handle the defensive side of things but I've never thought he really had an idea of dealing with forwards. So why have we appointed another defender as assistant.

I would get rid only if there is a better alternative. If we can get Gatesheads or Halifax's manager then grab em but if not it's not worth the hassle.

Quoted from pontoonlew

I'm sorry but you can't not sack a useless manager through fear of maybe not finding another one.

Our 'custodian' is capable of all sorts of decisions, the words North Devon, Slade, Newell, Radio Humberside and others are ringing in my ears like a bad dose of tinnitus

Quoted from horsforthmariner

Okay this is my take on the situation:

Firstly Hurst: He isn't a bad manager, he can set a team up ok, we aren't taken apart regularly and he does spot some good players. But he is tactically very average. Others teams do us tactically despite having inferior players.

He has no plan B - compare to Halifax - in the first half we were murdering them, in the second half their manager swapped it round, bypassed our midfield and they got the upperhand. Generally if we start badly that's it, we play rubbish for the entire game. Hurst doesn't seem to  be able to switch things round and change the game.

He also seems to have a blind spot with Lenny. When Lenny plays it's too easy to lump it up. We then lose our advantage of having more technically gifted players than most of our opposition. Lenny is an impact player who should be coming off the bench or playing on an oppositions weakness, we should not be building a team around him as Hurst does. On Chester I looked at the side and thought pre kick off thats a strong side I didn't think that last night. Oates should have started last night.

Jack Mackraith is a bad signing, he's too lightweight. We need to move him on in January and replace him with a better winger.

I think Doig and Hurst aren't good together. Hurst can handle the defensive side of things but I've never thought he really had an idea of dealing with forwards. So why have we appointed another defender as assistant.

I would get rid only if there is a better alternative. If we can get Gatesheads or Halifax's manager then grab em but if not it's not worth the hassle.

He's had a bad start to his career here to be fair, in and out of the team and not really got started yet but having seen him a couple of times play against us, and the highlights when he came here from his Macc days it's clear to see there's a player in there. Hope we see it soon, don't want him to become a flop...

Quoted from pontoonlew

I'm sorry but you can't not sack a useless manager through fear of maybe not finding another one.

Appreciate we aren't go agree on things but surely we have to have an idea of who we want?

Really d'ont see Fenty sacking Hurst (sadly IMO) because it will cost him a years
salary for Hurst, maybe compo for a new  man and then there is the situation with Doig,
a new man might want his own assistant, which would mean Doig becoming just a player
again, with the possibility of disenchantment being spread in the changing room as a result.
I have read with interest the comments on Hurst over the past few weeks and my own personal
opinion now is that he isn't the right man for the job, a good manager gets momentum building
after a couple of good results, he doesn't, its one step forward two back, worries about
the opposition and strange team selections. OK he has had a few injuries, but has been given
a good budget for this league and should have built a squad strong enough to cope IMO.
Sometimes you get a 'feel'  of success about the clubs management, i have to say i have never
had this with either Scott/Hurst or Hurst alone and still d'ont.
Nothing personal against Hurst but i just feel the time is now right for a change, i d'ont believe
we will go up with him in charge, so whats the risk?If it takes another season with the right man,
so be it.
My opinion for what its worth.

Sack Hurst - get Doig??

Assuming there will be a financial cost if we sack Hurst (compo??) and we are not exactly flushed (meaning we probably couldn't afford a 'better' boss) Doig might be the board's choice

Would be a risk and a slight let down - but he might be the one??

Personally, I'd go for a first time manager who has poss been Prem Lge/Championship player in poast 2/3 seasons, has his badges, is desperate for his first chance, and would be happy to take a job to get on the first rung

In theory, would have good contacts

What would we have to lose? Rather this than a 'been round the block a few times and done very little' type IMO

Quoted from Nelly GTFC

Gary Brabin? His stats are very convincing anyway, and he's not doing anything at the moment!

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Brabin]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Brabin[/url]

[img]http://i.imgur.com/Kng8QBm.png[/img]

Are they 'very convincing'? I'm not really seeing it, especially the Luton stats. They're decent, but obviously not good enough for a club with ambitions of regaining their league status and who'll do whatever it takes (that's Luton, not us of course). Are they appreciably better than Hurst's?

Here's what my Luton supporting mate said about Brabin - make of it what you will...

"Tactically clueless. He's a good coach but no manager. He used to stand in the dugout when things were going pear-shaped on the pitch and have no idea about what to do. Plus, he's a hot-headed scouser."

Of course, I was tempted to say "Well he sounds right up our sh1t street", but too much of that sounds all too familiar in all seriousness.

We started the season unprepared with being short of a striker,the transfer window closed without out us getting one,now we have two injured and he brings in a youngster from Barnsley,who may  if given the opportunity prove to be o.k.But where is the quality striker we need?to rely on LJL as our main attacking threat is just delusional.I fear we have lost ground on the promotion race,and have within the team an acceptance of mediocrity . That is fact all those who are still wearing their rose tinted glasses are deluding themselves .    

On all the occasions we have sacked a manager over the last 20 years how many times have we actually ended up in a better position? We'd end up with the same players, Doig and Watkiss as the managerial team probably and no money for new signings in January.Our chances of gaining the 5 points we need to get in the play-offs would be gone. The 4 favourites at the start of the season were Bristol, Forest Green, Eastleigh and then us (in that order). We are within spitting distance of all of them. Wait until April/May and we can start afresh if PH has failed. It's a no brainer, it's pointless even speculating about changing jockies now because it doesn't make business or football sense.

Quoted from GrimRob

On all the occasions we have sacked a manager over the last 20 years how many times have we actually ended up in a better position? We'd end up with the same players, Doig and Watkiss as the managerial team probably and no money for new signings in January.Our chances of gaining the 5 points we need to get in the play-offs would be gone. The 4 favourites at the start of the season were Bristol, Forest Green, Eastleigh and then us (in that order). We are within spitting distance of all of them. Wait until April/May and we can start afresh if PH has failed. It's a no brainer, it's pointless even speculating about changing jockies now because it doesn't make business or football sense.

I agree money paying off Hurst could be used on a new striker,but if Hurst is left in charge will we get one,He appears so far to paralysed by catatonic immobility, I fear what you are advocating will result in more of the same, with the same outcome.

Quoted from GrimRob

On all the occasions we have sacked a manager over the last 20 years how many times have we actually ended up in a better position? We'd end up with the same players, Doig and Watkiss as the managerial team probably and no money for new signings in January.Our chances of gaining the 5 points we need to get in the play-offs would be gone. The 4 favourites at the start of the season were Bristol, Forest Green, Eastleigh and then us (in that order). We are within spitting distance of all of them. Wait until April/May and we can start afresh if PH has failed. It's a no brainer, it's pointless even speculating about changing jockies now because it doesn't make business or football sense.

So your saying every club that changes Managers at any point during the season never end up in a better position?????????? balderdash
Yes we would have the same players but we could end up with a Manager  who actually knows the best way to us those players and has a bit of tactical nouse.
So GR what happened to starting afresh last April/May when PH failed??????
    

No i disagree Rob, it makes no business sense to keep a manager who has had 4 seasons
in  charge in one form or other and  yet we are currently left  exactly in the same position as
when he and Scott took over - you cannot expect the goodwill of the Town fans to continue
indefinitely and more performances and results like last night will soon see gates fall to 2000,
this will create an economic crisis within the club which undoubtedly JF will  unsurprisingly be
unwilling to cover, with  potentially catastrophic results.
We have a more than capable squad of players, poorly led IMHO, so i believe it makes perfect
sense in both a business and football sense to make the necessary changes to install the degree
of hope that is becoming so lacking to a high percentage of Town followers (obviously not you)
even if it means giving this season to a new man - whats the point in being a 'nearly' club and
starting again next May under the same regime with the usual hollow rhetoric?
You mentioned earlier that perhaps the Rose tinted brigade might in in the majority - i assume
that was tongue in cheek, because to believe that is IMO purely delusional - i know it may not have
been completely representative, but the recent poll on this site suggested almost 75% wanted PH
out, it might not really be that high but i would suggest that well over 50% would like to see a change.
I admire your positiveness, because you obviously have the club at heart as we all do, but sometimes
it is needed to wake up and smell the coffee - we are going nowhere.

Quoted from TAGG

So your saying every club that changes Managers at any point during the season never end up in a better position?????????? balderdash
Yes we would have the same players but we could end up with a Manager  who actually knows the best way to us those players and has a bit of tactical nouse.
So GR what happened to starting afresh last April/May when PH failed??????
    

Actually if you read the book Soccernomics (mandatory reading for anyone with an interest in football) then I think it proves that sacking managers is largely a futile exercise. Results before and after are largely the same on average if I recall the chapter. Of course there  are occasions when it appears to work but these are offset by the ones that don't. The fact that managers are just cycled around different clubs and all sacked multiple times is testament to the pointlessness of the whole exercise, which is done largely by nervous boards to appease fickle supporters.

PH didn't fail last April/May and he won't fail if we reach the top 5 again - whatever happens.

Quoted from GrimRob

Actually if you read the book Soccernomics (mandatory reading for anyone with an interest in football) then I think it proves that sacking managers is largely a futile exercise. Results before and after are largely the same on average if I recall the chapter. Of course there  are occasions when it appears to work but these are offset by the ones that don't. The fact that managers are just cycled around different clubs and all sacked multiple times is testament to the pointlessness of the whole exercise, which is done largely by nervous boards to appease fickle supporters.

PH didn't fail last April/May and he won't fail if we reach the top 5 again - whatever happens.

So are we stuck with him for life then Rob ?

Not every manager that gets the sack gets another job,

I can think of a few that have not got a job as a manager,

Rob  Scott

Neil Woods

Mike Newell

Alan Buckley

There seems to be a theme here don't you think ?

Quoted from grimsby pete

Not every manager that gets the sack gets another job,

I can think of a few that have not got a job as a manager,

Rob  Scott

Neil Woods

Mike Newell

Alan Buckley

There seems to be a theme here don't you think ?

A little unfair to stick Buckley in that list as he was theoretically already retired when he joined us for his last spell.

The others have certainly proved themselves incapable of being decent managers. Scott was a lunatic, Woods was a nice guy, but not at all managerial. I won't say what I think of Newell as I'm trying to avoid swearing.  ;)

Tell Wolves, Palace, Liverpool, Everton Sheff Wed, Notts Forest, Derby and countless others that changing Managers
doesn't work, obviously there will be some that d'ont work, but to stagnate under the same manager for year after
year is no good to anyone - ask the Newcastle fans!.

Quoted from GrimRob

Actually if you read the book Soccernomics (mandatory reading for anyone with an interest in football) then I think it proves that sacking managers is largely a futile exercise. Results before and after are largely the same on average if I recall the chapter. Of course there  are occasions when it appears to work but these are offset by the ones that don't. The fact that managers are just cycled around different clubs and all sacked multiple times is testament to the pointlessness of the whole exercise, which is done largely by nervous boards to appease fickle supporters.

PH didn't fail last April/May and he won't fail if we reach the top 5 again - whatever happens.

So if we keep getting into the top 5 for say the next 3 seasons and keep losing in the playoffs we just take that as success and keep on employing Hurst??????
We need to be top of the league not top 5
This acceptance of second best by people inside the club from the very top down  has been a massive problem at our club over the last 10 years or so.
Okay we have got in the top 5 but what good has it done?????? we may as well ended up 5th from bottom because its the same result at the end of the season we are still in this excrement non-league.
"Soccernomics (mandatory reading for anyone with an interest in football)" you patronising football snob

Quoted from Maringer

A little unfair to stick Buckley in that list as he was theoretically already retired when he joined us for his last spell.

The others have certainly proved themselves incapable of being decent managers. Scott was a lunatic, Woods was a nice guy, but not at all managerial. I won't say what I think of Newell as I'm trying to avoid swearing.  ;)

I could go on,

Graeme Rodger,

Mike Lyons had to go half way round the world to find a job,

Get the sack from Grimsby and no one wants you,

Think about that Hursty, kick some arses before yours get's kick for good.

Definition of insanity : doing the same thing over again and expecting a different outcome.

Quoted from grimsby pete

Not every manager that gets the sack gets another job,

I can think of a few that have not got a job as a manager,

Rob  Scott

Neil Woods

Mike Newell

Alan Buckley

There seems to be a theme here don't you think ?

Bit of a flipping joke to stick Buckley in that list, given what he´s done for our club. In his third spell we were heading downward anyway due to various factors, and he´d come out of retirement to take up the job - whatever he did in that spell, let's not forget what he did the first couple of times.

Quoted from TAGG

So if we keep getting into the top 5 for say the next 3 seasons and keep losing in the playoffs we just take that as success and keep on employing Hurst??????
We need to be top of the league not top 5
This acceptance of second best by people inside the club from the very top down  has been a massive problem at our club over the last 10 years or so.
Okay we have got in the top 5 but what good has it done?????? we may as well ended up 5th from bottom because its the same result at the end of the season we are still in this excrement non-league.
"Soccernomics (mandatory reading for anyone with an interest in football)" you patronising football snob

If we finish in the top 5 every year it's only a matter of time before we get promoted. Obviously if we get in the top 5 we're good enough to win the play-offs, every team in the top 5 is.

Don't see why I am a snob for recommending a book. The chapter is called something like "Does the Manager Matter: The Myth of the White Messiah".. I think sacking PH now would be a classic case of replacing someone for the sake of it and the absurd thing is he'd walk into another job elsewhere because of his record here.

Gary Mills- appointed Gateshead manager Sep 2013 and took them to a play off final. Also appointed York manager Oct 2010. Took them up 2011/12.

Richard Money- appointed Cambridge manager Oct 2012 and took them up in his first full season. He was also appointed Luton manager in the month of Oct 2009 where he had a 55% win rate.

Justin Edingurgh- appointed Newport manager in Oct 2011 and took them up in his first full season.

Bit of a pattern there. Managers have poor start to the season. Chairman acts about Sep/Oct.

It can work if you do your research and pick the right man.

Quoted from GrimRob

If we finish in the top 5 every year it's only a matter of time before we get promoted. Obviously if we get in the top 5 we're good enough to win the play-offs, every team in the top 5 is.

Don't see why I am a snob for recommending a book. The chapter is called something like "Does the Manager Matter: The Myth of the White Messiah".. I think sacking PH now would be a classic case of replacing someone for the sake of it and the absurd thing is he'd walk into another job elsewhere because of his record here.

But you didn't just recommend it though.You said that it was mandatory reading for anyone interested in football. That is entirely different  and whether you meant it to or not it does come across as patronising.  

The various clubs that people have quoted as having benefited from a change in management have one thing in common-they have wielded the axe lots of times in recent years. Some might say therefore that eventually they got lucky. One point is being missed repeatedly in this argument. Available finance has a massive part to play. A lot of clubs join the merry-go-round when they change owners with the new owners often making huge sums of money available for the new man to spend. That is fine at the level of Championship/Premiership but when you get down to our level and have been reliant on the funds of one man for an extended period money to pay off existing managers, bring in a new one and allow him to recruit personnel is more difficult to find.  Luton only had an advantage because the money they generated through (a.) a marvellous F.A. cup run in 2012 and (b.) historically a much larger support base than we enjoy. Newport had a new man with pots of money and Mansfield also had money from a great cup run. (As far as they go it will be interesting to see how they do this season as their gates aren't great and cup money doesn't last for ever in this industry). In the past mistakes have been made regarding managerial appointments. Attempts financially have been made to rectify those errors and like it or not at the moment on the basis of league position at the end of a season Paul Hurst is the most successful manager since the much derided Russell Slade. Just perhaps the powers that be want to see if he has that element of luck to get us over the final finishing line rather than trust to luck that a new manager will be able to deliver the results we all want.

Quoted from grimsby pete

Not every manager that gets the sack gets another job,

I can think of a few that have not got a job as a manager,

Rob  Scott

Neil Woods

Mike Newell

Alan Buckley

There seems to be a theme here don't you think ?

Wash your mouth out  Pete,  Buckley came out of retirement for the good of the club and should not be grouped with those failures

Quoted from ginnywings

Gary Mills- appointed Gateshead manager Sep 2013 and took them to a play off final. Also appointed York manager Oct 2010. Took them up 2011/12.

Richard Money- appointed Cambridge manager Oct 2012 and took them up in his first full season. He was also appointed Luton manager in the month of Oct 2009 where he had a 55% win rate.

Justin Edingurgh- appointed Newport manager in Oct 2011 and took them up in his first full season.

Bit of a pattern there. Managers have poor start to the season. Chairman acts about Sep/Oct.

It can work if you do your research and pick the right man.

Money had money...

Edinburgh had money

Mills may well prove your point but as yet he's actually no better off than Hurst

I am in the Hurst out brigade & found it interesting that a comment made by Macca was how the players came out to a flat atmosphere on Tuesday. IMO this is areflection of how divided the fans are to PH and the fact that there is no real expectation, just hope, that we will be going to witness an entertaining performance.

Once a Manager loses the support of the fans it is normally only a matter of time before the inevitable happens. Rightly or wrongly every poor result is going to be matched by calls for his head and die hards attending BP will become less & less. I have a season ticket but will not be there next Tuesday even though I expect us to win that one & have no plans to attend a game in the near future.

After going for 50 years the the quality of football served up, and the reliance of scoring goals on hannah & LJL, under PH is just not worth the effort of travelling over.

Quoted from GrimRob

Actually if you read the book Soccernomics (mandatory reading for anyone with an interest in football) then I think it proves that sacking managers is largely a futile exercise. Results before and after are largely the same on average if I recall the chapter. Of course there  are occasions when it appears to work but these are offset by the ones that don't. The fact that managers are just cycled around different clubs and all sacked multiple times is testament to the pointlessness of the whole exercise, which is done largely by nervous boards to appease fickle supporters.

PH didn't fail last April/May and he won't fail if we reach the top 5 again - whatever happens.

Maybe in your world a failed playoff will be a success Rob. In mine it feels very much like a failure. You can't measure everything with cost/benefit analysis, especially in football. That's why we love it.



On the subject of failures, managers who didn't succeed at one club can do well at another. It is horses for courses a lot of time. Look at Buckley for example with WBA and Grimsby.

Paddy Hamilton saw something in the manager sacked by Doncaster that Grimsby Town needed and he appointed McMenemy.

It is possible PH could do well elsewhere (personally I doubt that) and it is possible someone could come here after being sacked and get us promoted. This is of course down to JF and his judgment of candidates. Doesn't look too good for us whichever way he turns does it? :-/

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

I am in the Hurst out brigade & found it interesting that a comment made by Macca was how the players came out to a flat atmosphere on Tuesday. IMO this is areflection of how divided the fans are to PH and the fact that there is no real expectation, just hope, that we will be going to witness an entertaining performance.

Nothing to do with the point you made but personally I don't give a stuff how Macca or any of the team and management feel about the crowd and the atmosphere. This lot have worn out the old adage of a good crowd, worth a goal, making a fortress, intimidation etc. They're just f******g useless at times and no crowd however large or vocal can stop that.

This league soon teaches you one thing, crowds don't matter. Mills has got by at Gateshead with meagre attendances, and as Tuesday showed we not only lose to 20 away fans but put in gutless, dire displays despite banging the drum for support in the paper the night before.

It should also be added to the "change the manager debate" that in this league you can have money, a very good team, great results and still not get promoted.  Wrexham got 99 points recently and missed out on automatic promotion and the play-offs.  They are still in the same division as us.

Quoted from Garth

Wash your mouth out  Pete,  Buckley came out of retirement for the good of the club and should not be grouped with those failures

That was not the point I was making Garth,

The point, which I explained better in my second post was,

Get the sack from Grimsby and you will not get another job elsewhere,

Alan Buckley was the best manager this club  ever had, I was not saying he was a failure,

We know Hurst reads the Fishy, just giving a nudge on what the future awaits if he does not get his act together.

Quoted from grimsby pete

That was not the point I was making Garth,

The point, which I explained better in my second post was,

Get the sack from Grimsby and you will not get another job elsewhere,

Alan Buckley was the best manager this club  ever had, I was not saying he was a failure,

We know Hurst reads the Fishy, just giving a nudge on what the future awaits if he does not get his act together.

Shankly was sacked by Grimsby wasnt he?
Brian Laws?
Lennie Lawrence went to Cardiff?
Buckley has several jobs between his various spells with Town, and as others have stated when he was sacked the third time he was effectively retired

I think Shankly left of his own accord.

Lennie Lawrence was sacked (and rightfully so, as he was hopeless for us), but got a new job almost immediately.

Don't think it was too long before Laws got his job at Scunny after leaving, was it?

Quoted from biggles9999

Shankly was sacked by Grimsby wasnt he?
Brian Laws?
Lennie Lawrence went to Cardiff?
Buckley has several jobs between his various spells with Town, and as others have stated when he was sacked the third time he was effectively retired

Paul Groves and Bournemouth (for about 7 minutes)

Quoted from Abdul19

Paul Groves and Bournemouth (for about 7 minutes)

In fairness to Groves he went on to have a decent spell as a Premiership coach after being sacked by us.

In the end appointing managers is something of a lottery shown by the frequency of sackings at all levels. With regard to the atmosphere on Tuesday, I have to admit I went fearing the worst, probably because we have seen so many of these type of games end in disappointment. Perhaps the team felt a bit like that too and this should not be. To be successful it needs everyone, players, management and fans to be positive and confident of a good outcome. I am more positive about Sat's away game than I am sometimes going to home games, again that should not be so.

Quoted from GrimRob

If we finish in the top 5 every year it's only a matter of time before we get promoted. Obviously if we get in the top 5 we're good enough to win the play-offs, every team in the top 5 is.
We its obvious were not good enough to win the play offs because the last time I looked we were still a non-league team

Don't see why I am a snob for recommending a book. The chapter is called something like "Does the Manager Matter: The Myth of the White Messiah".. I think sacking PH now would be a classic case of replacing someone for the sake of it and the absurd thing is he'd walk into another job elsewhere because of his record here.

Well its obvious were not good enough to win the play offs because the last time I looked we were still a non-league team.

You are a football snob. You didn't recommend a book,  you informed people that you read books about football that the vast majority of fans would never come anywhere near.
Another reason you quoted this book was to say 'look at me I read books with chapters like "Does the Manager Matter: The Myth of the White Messiah"..   unlike you plebs and this book says I'm right about this subject''

Name me one post on here or anywhere else where someone says they want Hurst out "for the sake of it"???

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/agJIP.gif[/IMG]

I can't believe that anybody has the gall to suggest football fans should read books.  :P

Quoted from Maringer

I can't believe that anybody has the gall to suggest football fans should read books.  :P

What with us Town fans being neanderthal and backward  :P

Pmsl... we will probally play like PSG and win the next two or three games now.

Quoted from Nelly GTFC

Pmsl... we will probally win the next two or three games now.

I think we will and lose the one after that and draw after that.

Quoted from biggles9999

Shankly was sacked by Grimsby wasnt he?
Brian Laws?
Lennie Lawrence went to Cardiff?
Buckley has several jobs between his various spells with Town, and as others have stated when he was sacked the third time he was effectively retired

I was not talking about when we where a decent club in a decent league,

I was talking about recently, Shankly was not sacked and Buckley mark3 was the time I was referring to.