- Print Topic - Archive

Quoted from Fcukthescunts

When certain posters on here give certain players hell/abuse ie The Shop and constantly post negative things about the manager. Some of the posters actually wanted the team to lose at Halifax yet my post having a tongue in cheek dig back at such posters is described as Toxic/sunk to new lows........
Oh well the joys of differing opinions on how you support your team! UTM

In my experience, people who say their remarks are 'tongue in cheek' are usually trying to backtrack. Not all crticism is 'abuse' or 'hell', and I think that it was one person who said that, in some respects, he wanted the team to lose at Halifax. Let's not overstate or overdramatise the situation. Why do we need this at all? It's negative. If you think 'supporting your team' means jibing at other Town fans, that makes you as bad as those you accuse.

Can't we just have an open and edifying discussion on (say), the ways in which we've improved as a team - in our taking of corners today for instance, or praising the team for it's excellent work rate etc etc?

Let's have a moan that we're not moaning

As for me, i'm crawling back to my beer.

i really hope ph can do it, i just lack a little faith at the moment.

Quoted from chaos33

You people are more toxic than the posters you slate as 'negative' or 'haters'!

Not in terms of the success of GTFC IMO.

Quoted from chaos33

Aren't we all happy that we're playing well and winning/not losing?

Well perhaps a few aren't, maybe that's his whole point !

To be fair chaos, you're part of the "ramp up the pressure on Hurst" contingent.

If you really cared about avoiding quarrels, perhaps you wouldn't be agreeing with everyone who was complaining and fuelling the doubts at almost every available opportunity.

I notice it didn't take you very long to insist we win on Tuesday and talk about 9 points.
Yes we know we there's pressure and importance to win each game.
Do we really need to be told how important it is after EVERY sodding game ? :-/

Quoted from chaos33

If we lose a couple, and then half a dozen come on here posting taunts at those that predicted we would win, would that make for good content?

In light of the result today, do all those calls for the manager to be sacked make for good content ?!! ??)
Guess you'll say nothings been proven yet etc etc.

Has it ever occurred to anyone it might be more helpful to keep any doubts to oneself if there aren't "constructive solutions" ?
Personally I don't consider the sacking of Hurst to be constructive in terms of how much of the budget would be eaten up.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

What the intercourse do you want?

Just personally what I'd like is for the doubters to have a little self reflection (just for a change !) and think twice before making the same old arguments (some ridiculous) every time we don't win in the future.
And when we do, not to ramp up the pressure even further.

It's not like there aren't plenty of examples where doubts have been raised and we've bounced back under Hurst.

Course if people simply want to be proved right that "I knew Hurst wouldn't do it", then it's a different story.
pontoonlew seems to care more about 80sglory claiming he was right (where and about what I'm not sure !) than his own team winning.
Can't get more toxic than that...

Quoted from moosey_club

everyone loves a moan..xx

Inevitably there's more always more discussion when things aren't working than when they are.
It's not that fans shouldn't complain or criticize per se.
More that it becomes a toxic habit that is often repeated until it bears little resemblence to reality.
It's my impression that as a club, we often seem to win when gates are down.
Co-incidence ?

Quoted from GrimRob

Let's have a moan that we're not moaning

It's a fair point.
But for me it's more a case of how it might have been "mistaken" to complain in the first place.
Not that I expect anyone to ever be right by any means !
But after 50+ moans that are still yet to be proven correct, I'd expect a little soul searching next time round.

To be fair there wasn't a lot of complaining after Aldershot.
Although equally, we'd just won 6-1 and 7-0 and it didn't last very long after that..
I hope the OP agrees with me when I say I'd loved to be proved wrong the next time it happens.

I've been quite ill. Is that allowed or do you need a note from my Doctor?

I'm not a fan of Hurst and along with most of the Town fans i know, think we will never achieve our goals under him. I can't for the life of me understand why my view is deemed negative. I want what is best for my club and i am of the opinion that Hurst cannot provide it. I get the same feeling from Hurst that i got from Slade, another manager that never cut it for me. Competent but ultimately not got that force of nature that winners have.

I've not seen Town since we capitulated against Torquay but am really chuffed we have picked up the pace since then. Would really love it if we went storming up the league and Hurst proved all us doubters wrong. I just don't think he will. That is my opinion and i have every right to express it. The fact that there is such a split over Hurst tells it's own story for me. He has never quite convinced the sceptics and there is definitely a tailing off in the attendances the last few games. New season optimism waning would account for that.

Finally, there is a definite "them and us" element about the fishy at the moment and i for one am not posting as much because of it. This thread being a case in point.

Quoted from 120797

Not in terms of the success of GTFC IMO.

Well perhaps a few aren't, maybe that's his whole point !

To be fair chaos, you're part of the "ramp up the pressure on Hurst" contingent.

If you really cared about avoiding quarrels, perhaps you wouldn't be agreeing with everyone who was complaining and fuelling the doubts at almost every available opportunity.

I notice it didn't take you very long to insist we win on Tuesday and talk about 9 points.
Yes we know we there's pressure and importance to win each game.
Do we really need to be told how important it is after EVERY sodding game ? :-/

In light of the result today, do all those calls for the manager to be sacked make for good content ?!! ??)
Guess you'll say nothings been proven yet etc etc.

Has it ever occurred to anyone it might be more helpful to keep any doubts to oneself if there aren't "constructive solutions" ?
Personally I don't consider the sacking of Hurst to be constructive in terms of how much of the budget would be eaten up.

You miss the point. Probably deliberately. Quarrelling after victories and good performances, and sniping is my beef. You talk about 'self reflection', but just look at this thread title. Some of you are hypocrites and you've just underlined my point. In your case, provoking even more tension and 'pressure on Hurst' as you call it with another poll on whether he should be sacked or not didn't help either did it? And you call me 'part of the ramp up the pressure on Hurst contingent'!! You fool.

I take no advice from you, and you're not even correct in your references to what I supposedly think or have posted. And I'm now angry with myself as I'd resolved not to respond directly to your sanctimonious guff.

Ginnywings says it all ,
Happy when we win , angry when we loose. Human nature that we want to blame someone or something , be it player , manager , the ref , the weather etc . We all have our favorite player , and the one who we love to make a mistake . It's the nature of the game , not just here at Grimsby .

There's going to be more highs and lows before April 2015 , so enjoy the good times while they are here as we haven't had many over the past 12 years .

Quoted from ginnywings

He has never quite convinced the sceptics and there is definitely a tailing off in the attendances the last few games.

Maybe people have read all the negative remarks on the fishy and decided not to bother. This is why people who are overly negative are more of a risk to our season than those who are overly positive. That is why people get exasperated with some posters on here and can't resist a little gloat when we win a game.

Quoted from Vance Warner

Maybe people have read all the negative remarks on the fishy and decided not to bother. This is why people who are overly negative are more of a risk to our season than those who are overly positive. That is why people get exasperated with some posters on here and can't resist a little gloat when we win a game.

The only negativity i can see is that directed at the Hurst doubters by those of you who take an opposite view. Doubting Hursts abilities is not negative IMO, as i have repeated over and over again. It is merely a viewpoint shared by some and not by others.

I very much doubt that anyone decides to stay away from BP because of perceived negative remarks on a football forum I know plenty of Town fans and to my knowledge, none of them are members of this forum. Most of them have no faith in Hurst. That is a fact whether you like it or not.

This debate seems to have no point to it. We all want Town to do well but some think that it will take a change for that to be realised and some don't. Where is the negativity in that? It doesn't stop me or others supporting the team in the meantime, which i do at BP. I don't direct any abuse at the the players or the manager but use this forum to air my thoughts. Isn't that what a forum is for?

Quoted from chaos33

Quarrelling after victories and good performances, and sniping is my beef.

Then maybe you're a hippocrite by quarrelling and sniping with the OP.

You were the first in line to react.

Perhaps he shouldn't have posted or in the way he did but I can at least understand why he did.
I'm certainly not gonna stand idly by after you decided to stick your two penneth in suppposedly taking him to task.
If you wanted to avoid tension you could have said nowt, but you jumped straight in.

Quoted from chaos33

Some of you are hypocrites and you've just underlined my point. In your case, provoking even more tension and 'pressure on Hurst' as you call it with another poll on whether he should be sacked or not didn't help either did it?

Judging by 3 points it didn't hurt either so it's irrelevant.

If you're telling me the so called "tension" is all down to those who feel the need to defend the manager when they see him coming under fire (not that I was trying to defend him by sticking the poll up, merely curious as to the numbers), then I disagree they're to blame.

Why you give a toss about this so called "tension" between posters like it's some sort of competition to be proven right and not just simply whether the manager and the team is being supported (to give us the best chance) I've no idea !

What's the problem, is trying to be successful by pulling together too boring ?
Any idea it's all down to the manager and fans play no part is bonkers IMO.

Quoted from chaos33

I take no advice from you, and you're not even correct in your references to what I supposedly think or have posted. And I'm now angry with myself as I'd resolved not to respond directly to your sanctimonious guff.

At least you admit you've no self control.

I would say that inertia resulting from apathy is far more toxic than any negative posters.This is a discussion board,posters are allowed to have contrary opinions or must everybody subscribe to the same opinion?

Quoted from Stevie Saunders

But it is a fact - when we win the number of comments drops dramatically

That's what a bit of positive energy does :)

Quoted from ginnywings

The only negativity i can see is that directed at the Hurst doubters by those of you who take an opposite view. Doubting Hursts abilities is not negative IMO, as i have repeated over and over again. It is merely a viewpoint shared by some and not by others.

I very much doubt that anyone decides to stay away from BP because of perceived negative remarks on a football forum I know plenty of Town fans and to my knowledge, none of them are members of this forum. Most of them have no faith in Hurst. That is a fact whether you like it or not.

This debate seems to have no point to it. We all want Town to do well but some think that it will take a change for that to be realised and some don't. Where is the negativity in that? It doesn't stop me or others supporting the team in the meantime, which i do at BP. I don't direct any abuse at the the players or the manager but use this forum to air my thoughts. Isn't that what a forum is for?

Agree totally.

Hungry, hungry hippocrites.

Quoted from ginnywings

Would really love it if we went storming up the league and Hurst proved all us doubters wrong. I just don't think he will.

Fair enough we've all got our opinions but any fan of any manager in the BSP could say the same and most probably be proved right.

If you asked me to bet my life on whether Hurst is gonna take us up this season (odds 9/2), I'd guess no too.
But that's not what "supporting" is about is it ?
I don't mean blind faith, just saying it's always easier to doubt things than to trust them. (especially as a Town fan !).

Even if Mourinho came in to BP next season on the same budget, pretty sure I could still look at oddchecker pre-season and say
"Chances are we won't win the league."

Quoted from ginnywings

The only negativity i can see is that directed at the Hurst doubters by those of you who take an opposite view. Doubting Hursts abilities is not negative IMO, as i have repeated over and over again. It is merely a viewpoint shared by some and not by others.

I very much doubt that anyone decides to stay away from BP because of perceived negative remarks on a football forum I know plenty of Town fans and to my knowledge, none of them are members of this forum. Most of them have no faith in Hurst. That is a fact whether you like it or not.

This debate seems to have no point to it. We all want Town to do well but some think that it will take a change for that to be realised and some don't. Where is the negativity in that? It doesn't stop me or others supporting the team in the meantime, which i do at BP. I don't direct any abuse at the the players or the manager but use this forum to air my thoughts. Isn't that what a forum is for?

Sorry to hear you've been unwell mate. Hope its been nothing too serious. The way I see it is that the two camps have become entrenched in their views and as such opinion is unlikely to be swayed. Personally I wouldn't have started a thread such as this because it is, to be frank, pointless. The team put forward Hurst's case very well yesterday and, at the end of the day, that is what really matters-not the opinions of a bunch of fans on both sides of the debate. I made the point a while back that us individuals who frequent this message board can be guilty of believing that what we actually say is of huge importance when in truth we form only a very small minority of the regular fan base and the majority have no idea that this debate is ongoing. The respect I have for posters on here comes from what they say-not which camp they fall into in this particular debate. I guess I'll never be able to square the circle in my own mind regarding people having very strong opinions who don't actually witness the events they are talking about first hand. Does that make their opinions invalid? I guess not but try getting a conviction in court based on the evidence of witnesses who weren't present when the offence took place! ;)

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Hungry, hungry hippocrites.

Easily the most sensible comment on the whole thread.......

Quoted from 120797

At least you admit you've no self control.

This comment is absolutely hilarious in so many ways....... :)

If Carlsberg did message boards.....

Absolutely it is. Isn't irony a beautiful thing.

Quoted from Fcukthescunts

Was just wondering where all the anti-hurst and anti-Fenty posters are after 7 points out of possible 9?! I am sure they will be back when we slip up again calling for Hursts head!! The fishy is such a better place at present!!

There's only one thing that will now change my mind and that is promotion. Performances are still not where they should be. But yet again we'll sit and accept him blaming injuries etc., nothing to do with poor tactics.

Quoted from barralad

Sorry to hear you've been unwell mate. Hope its been nothing too serious. The way I see it is that the two camps have become entrenched in their views and as such opinion is unlikely to be swayed. Personally I wouldn't have started a thread such as this because it is, to be frank, pointless. The team put forward Hurst's case very well yesterday and, at the end of the day, that is what really matters-not the opinions of a bunch of fans on both sides of the debate. I made the point a while back that us individuals who frequent this message board can be guilty of believing that what we actually say is of huge importance when in truth we form only a very small minority of the regular fan base and the majority have no idea that this debate is ongoing. The respect I have for posters on here comes from what they say-not which camp they fall into in this particular debate. I guess I'll never be able to square the circle in my own mind regarding people having very strong opinions who don't actually witness the events they are talking about first hand. Does that make their opinions invalid? I guess not but try getting a conviction in court based on the evidence of witnesses who weren't present when the offence took place! ;)

I agree mate, especially the first half of this. It was my very point. Indeed the team did 'put forward Hurst's case' very well yesterday. I thought everyone would be pleased about that regardless of the wider views they might hold.
Personally I'm chuffed with the consecutive victories and the league position looks a bit healthier.

Quoted from chaos33

I agree mate, especially the first half of this. It was my very point. Indeed the team did 'put forward Hurst's case' very well yesterday. I thought everyone would be pleased about that regardless of the wider views they might hold.
Personally I'm chuffed with the consecutive victories and the league position looks a bit healthier.

May I refer m'learned friend to Denni's post on the "Just Back" thread? ;D ;D ;D

Quoted from mariner2000

There's only one thing that will now change my mind and that is promotion. Performances are still not where they should be. But yet again we'll sit and accept him blaming injuries etc., nothing to do with poor tactics.

Chaos!!!!! Here's another unhappy chappie....

Quoted from 120797

Fair enough we've all got our opinions but any fan of any manager in the BSP could say the same and most probably be proved right.

If you asked me to bet my life on whether Hurst is gonna take us up this season (odds 9/2), I'd guess no too.
But that's not what "supporting" is about is it ?
I don't mean blind faith, just saying it's always easier to doubt things than to trust them. (especially as a Town fan !).

Even if Mourinho came in to BP next season on the same budget, pretty sure I could still look at oddchecker pre-season and say
"Chances are we won't win the league."

I know my duties as a supporter. I still attend games (yesterday aside) and am still of the opinion that we could and should be doing better.

I still truly hope that Hurst proves me wrong and will be the first to hold up my hands if he does.

Being critical of the manager and still supporting the team isn't mutually exclusive.

Quoted from ginnywings

The only negativity i can see is that directed at the Hurst doubters by those of you who take an opposite view.

I'm sorry, but I couldn't disagree more strongly with this statement.

There are literally dozens of threads in which some posters endlessly attempt to run the team and Hurst down - how about the many ridiculous threads about Hurst's press statements and interviews in which utterly banal comments are accused of showing a lack of ambition/ability/whatever?

For example, this week there has been much wailing and gnashing of teeth in the Jolley thread. The fact we didn't sign a player who would almost certainly never come here is seen by some as a lack of ambition/contacts/whatever. This is just grasping for another stick with which to beat the disliked manager when common sense indicates that Jolley was never going to come here in preference to a move to FGR just down the road from his current club.

Similarly, Hurst's comments that he was looking for a targetman type of player was taken by some as an admission that he didn't want a striker who could score goals. You'd think that "targetman" and "score goals" were mutually exclusive abilities, from some of the comments you see on this board.

I'm not a fan of the "yah boo sucks" posts such as the one which began this thread, but let's not try to pretend that a there aren't some posters on this board will never say anything kind about Hurst (and some of his players) as long as they have a hole in their bottom.

Like I stated in another post, happy with the win, 3 points closer to 5th place and 9 points off top spot.

Threads like this; like others have said; open up the same old frustrations.  I don't believe there are as many entrenched in the Hurst out camp the excrement stirrers think there is.

A handful of fans being negative was far out weighted by those fans who desperately wanted us to stay in the football league.  Anyone who claims that a handful of negative comments on a non league message board is going to stop us getting promotion needs to go and talk too the hundreds that have already stopped going.

To get more people on Hursts side he needs to deliver consistency and a run that puts us closer to the top spot.

If you are happy that we get in to the play off''s but ultimately aren't strong enough to gain promotion and are happy with that; are you more of a supporter than those who will only settle for promotion to get out of non league; some seem to think so.

We will see were we are come the business end of the season, as someone who doesn't think Hurst is the man it doesn't stop me from desperately hoping that he proves me wrong.

I also thought that 80's claimed he was going to stop over analysing and dissecting every post he disagrees with.

Quoted from Maringer

I'm sorry, but I couldn't disagree more strongly with this statement.

There are literally dozens of threads in which some posters endlessly attempt to run the team and Hurst down - how about the many ridiculous threads about Hurst's press statements and interviews in which utterly banal comments are accused of showing a lack of ambition/ability/whatever?

For example, this week there has been much wailing and gnashing of teeth in the Jolley thread. The fact we didn't sign a player who would almost certainly never come here is seen by some as a lack of ambition/contacts/whatever. This is just grasping for another stick with which to beat the disliked manager when common sense indicates that Jolley was never going to come here in preference to a move to FGR just down the road from his current club.

Similarly, Hurst's comments that he was looking for a targetman type of player was taken by some as an admission that he didn't want a striker who could score goals. You'd think that "targetman" and "score goals" were mutually exclusive abilities, from some of the comments you see on this board.

I'm not a fan of the "yah boo sucks" posts such as the one which began this thread, but let's not try to pretend that a there aren't some posters on this board will never say anything kind about Hurst (and some of his players) as long as they have a hole in their bottom.

Don't be sorry. It's a message board and you have your right to an opinion, as do i.

Quoted from Fcukthescunts

Was just wondering where all the anti-hurst and anti-Fenty posters are after 7 points out of possible 9?! I am sure they will be back when we slip up again calling for Hursts head!! The fishy is such a better place at present!!

Absolutely 100%. Well said

Quoted from ginnywings

Don't be sorry. It's a message board and you have your right to an opinion, as do i.

Don't worry, I'm not at all sorry. Just a figure of speech. :)

Quoted from ginnywings

I know my duties as a supporter. I still attend games (yesterday aside) and am still of the opinion that we could and should be doing better.

I still truly hope that Hurst proves me wrong and will be the first to hold up my hands if he does.

Being critical of the manager and still supporting the team isn't mutually exclusive.

Wasn't questioning your "duties" ginny.
Personally I don't see it as being a "right/wrong" exercise and wouldn't expect anyone to feel they need to hold their hands up.

Quoted from Marinerz93

A handful of fans being negative was far out weighted by those fans who desperately wanted us to stay in the football league.

Interesting !
I'll take your word about "negativity", I was on the OS ! ;D

Perhaps if Woods wasn't the right man, no amount of positivity was gonna keep us up ?
If so, does that mean positivity is therefore wrong or unhelpful ?
For me there's different shades of positivity, rose tint sunshine and reality yellow.

Perhaps you think it's a repeat "positivity" exercise this time round ?
If so, tbh I see it more simply.
i.e. don't throw the baby out with the bathwater (the baby being the support, the bathwater being Woods !)
I appreciate we've all got our own opinions on Hurst though.

Quoted from Marinerz93

If you are happy that we get in to the play off''s but ultimately aren't strong enough to gain promotion and are happy with that; are you more of a supporter than those who will only settle for promotion to get out of non league; some seem to think so.

Who knows but honestly don't think it's a case of that.
Just that it's hard to GUARANTEE promotion regardless of who may be in charge, such is football.

Perhaps I'm more relaxed about our fall from grace than others though.
One things for sure, I wasn't when we were going down !
Just from my point of view there's only so much frustration you can handle before you hit the reset button.
I sympathize with where fans are coming from though...

I just hope it's not a case of reverse "kick up the bottom" tactics being employed week in week out.
Of course, that's not to say it wouldn't work.
But have to say, I guess it's pushing it and wonder if it could be a lot more productive the other way round.

Quoted from Marinerz93

I also thought that 80's claimed he was going to stop over analysing and dissecting every post he disagrees with.

Maybe you've got a point ! (depending on whether opinions are entrenched or not)

I just think some fans find themselves in a state of unnecessary or over-exagerrated concern.
Truth is I don't want them to be.
Which admittedly may sound rich when we're in the BSP but personally prefer to assess every season on it's own merits.
I'm sure for some it's not only the frustration of this season but others gone by.

Regardless of who's making the points think it would be a shame if opinion or debate ever turned into a 1 way street.

Quoted from mariner2000

There's only one thing that will now change my mind and that is promotion. Performances are still not where they should be. But yet again we'll sit and accept him blaming injuries etc., nothing to do with poor tactics.

Performances that get 3 points without being perfect are acceptable at this stage of the season. Last year we had a number of wins where we were lucky but kept on an unbeaten streak for quite a while. When the luck turned so did the results and eventually we had to struggle into the play offhand hope for the best. This year we want to see performances actually get better during the season, if need be by strengthening the squad as we go along. I do think the manager has learned a bit since last year and maybe he will develop the confidence to let other teams worry about us.

I have voiced doubts about the manager and to be truthful, given the budget he has, I will not feel happy about his abilities unless we are promoted. His failure to sign a good striker sooner is one example. Even yesterday the BBC stats showed us having 23 shots with 10 on target but only 3 goals and a missed penalty. Playoffs is not good enough this time and you need to both create and take chances to get further than the playoffs. All that praise for LJL's cameo can't disguise the fact that he will not be the player to take them.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Performances that get 3 points without being perfect are acceptable at this stage of the season. Last year we had a number of wins where we were lucky but kept on an unbeaten streak for quite a while. When the luck turned so did the results and eventually we had to struggle into the play offhand hope for the best. This year we want to see performances actually get better during the season, if need be by strengthening the squad as we go along. I do think the manager has learned a bit since last year and maybe he will develop the confidence to let other teams worry about us.

I have voiced doubts about the manager and to be truthful, given the budget he has, I will not feel happy about his abilities unless we are promoted. His failure to sign a good striker sooner is one example. Even yesterday the BBC stats showed us having 23 shots with 10 on target but only 3 goals and a missed penalty. Playoffs is not good enough this time and you need to both create and take chances to get further than the playoffs. All that praise for LJL's cameo can't disguise the fact that he will not be the player to take them.

Why?! It's not as though we have the biggest budget in the division so when there is only one promotion spot available, why would it automatically be a failure?

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Performances that get 3 points without being perfect are acceptable at this stage of the season. Last year we had a number of wins where we were lucky but kept on an unbeaten streak for quite a while. When the luck turned so did the results and eventually we had to struggle into the play offhand hope for the best. This year we want to see performances actually get better during the season, if need be by strengthening the squad as we go along. I do think the manager has learned a bit since last year and maybe he will develop the confidence to let other teams worry about us.

I have voiced doubts about the manager and to be truthful, given the budget he has, I will not feel happy about his abilities unless we are promoted. His failure to sign a good striker sooner is one example. Even yesterday the BBC stats showed us having 23 shots with 10 on target but only 3 goals and a missed penalty. Playoffs is not good enough this time and you need to both create and take chances to get further than the playoffs. All that praise for LJL's cameo can't disguise the fact that he will not be the player to take them.

Agree with this, we get three half decent performances and Hurst's turns into the next Jose Mourinho, we are still 10th in the league we are still looking like playoff hopefuls rather than the title contenders the bookies has us down for.

The thing is starting a mammary for tat threads like this will only make you look a twit when the Tinkerman starts getting ideas above his station, when he starts rotating and changing the formation of a winning team.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Performances that get 3 points without being perfect are acceptable at this stage of the season. Last year we had a number of wins where we were lucky but kept on an unbeaten streak for quite a while. When the luck turned so did the results and eventually we had to struggle into the play offhand hope for the best. This year we want to see performances actually get better during the season, if need be by strengthening the squad as we go along. I do think the manager has learned a bit since last year and maybe he will develop the confidence to let other teams worry about us.

I have voiced doubts about the manager and to be truthful, given the budget he has, I will not feel happy about his abilities unless we are promoted. His failure to sign a good striker sooner is one example. Even yesterday the BBC stats showed us having 23 shots with 10 on target but only 3 goals and a missed penalty. Playoffs is not good enough this time and you need to both create and take chances to get further than the playoffs. All that praise for LJL's cameo can't disguise the fact that he will not be the player to take them.

So agree! just cut us doubters’ a little slack as we`ve suffered sh1t for years and can`t see the point of star gazing through the wrong end of the telescope

Lets look at the facts,

The Fishy is a football forum,

We discuss the love of our lives Grimsby Town,

We are happy when we win and upset when we lose,

Some of us Like Hurst some of us do not,

Some of us like Fenty some of us do not,

Now if we came on here and said the same thing it would be very boring and in the end it would be empty,

I have had a view different points of view with a few on here,

That's fine as long as they do not start name calling,

At the end of the season and we have gained promotion,

Everybody on here will be in agreement for a short while and say,

I knew Hurst would take us up, :)

If we fail some will want his head on a stick and some will say he deserves another season,

That's what makes football so interesting,

We can talk about it all the time,

Let the people who do not have your point of view have their say,

As long as you have your say without being abusive the Fishy will last forever,

Long Live The Fishy.

Quoted from mariner91

Why?! It's not as though we have the biggest budget in the division so when there is only one promotion spot available, why would it automatically be a failure?

Sorry, but if you don't know the answer to that after the all that has happened over the last few years, then nothing I or anyone else can say will convince you.

We would have to agree to differ. :)

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Sorry, but if you don't know the answer to that after the all that has happened over the last few years, then nothing I or anyone else can say will convince you.

We would have to agree to differ. :)

Perhaps but that just seems like a cop out because there isn't a reasonable explanation behind it. If you have the biggest budget in the league then you should be expected to win it, sadly money talks more than anything else in football these days. I'm not for a second doubting that we don't have one of the bigger budgets, probably top 5 or top 3. But it is definitely not the biggest. So if we make the play offs this season and show continued improvement from last season then why is that a failure? If you don't have the biggest budget then continuity is your best bet at getting to the level where you'll win promotion and as long as you keep getting better then eventually it will happen (not suggesting this will certainly be the case this season, we don't know just yet).

Hypothetical situation but let's say we are pipped to 1st place by FGR, who have a much bigger budget than us (somebody reckoned just one of their strikers was on about £3500 a week!) but have played well all season and are clearly one of the two best teams in the league. We then make it to the play off final and play Bristol Rovers (another team with a bigger budget) but lose to them due to a bad refereeing decision or something equally unfortunate that can happen in one off games. Would that make the whole entire season a failure?

Quoted from mariner2000 --

There's only one thing that will now change my mind and that is promotion. Performances are still not where they should be. But yet again
we'll sit and accept him blaming injuries etc., nothing to do with poor tactics.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quoted from barralad---

Chaos!!!!! Here's another unhappy chappie....
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Or someone that perhaps wasn't at the game yesterday. Not heard anyone from management complaining we only won by 3-0 due to injuries.I was at the game and IMO the tactics for yesterdays game were spot on.UTM. same again on tuesday please.

Quoted from mariner91

Perhaps but that just seems like a cop out because there isn't a reasonable explanation behind it. If you have the biggest budget in the league then you should be expected to win it, sadly money talks more than anything else in football these days. I'm not for a second doubting that we don't have one of the bigger budgets, probably top 5 or top 3. But it is definitely not the biggest. So if we make the play offs this season and show continued improvement from last season then why is that a failure? If you don't have the biggest budget then continuity is your best bet at getting to the level where you'll win promotion and as long as you keep getting better then eventually it will happen (not suggesting this will certainly be the case this season, we don't know just yet).

Hypothetical situation but let's say we are pipped to 1st place by FGR, who have a much bigger budget than us (somebody reckoned just one of their strikers was on about £3500 a week!) but have played well all season and are clearly one of the two best teams in the league. We then make it to the play off final and play Bristol Rovers (another team with a bigger budget) but lose to them due to a bad refereeing decision or something equally unfortunate that can happen in one off games. Would that make the whole entire season a failure?

OR

If our captain kicks out at one of their players and gets sent off, rooneylike :B

Leaving us to play with 10 men,

Oh here we go again, posters that are more happy that they 'got it right' this week rather than the fact we won a game.

I think you'll find the people that voice concerns over the manager do it because they care about the club. I can't quite grasp how you think anybody would complain about something they didn't give a shite about. The football club is a huge part of many peoples lives on this board, we wouldn't travel the country watching them if it didn't. So why shouldn't we show some passion and voice concerns when we don't feel it's going to plan.

I personally don't think Hurst will take us up. Who are you or anybody else to say I cannot express that opinion? I'm not saying it to have a moan, I'm expressing my opinion on a forum, it's what it's here for. I personally don't believe Hurst will not try and tinker with the team on Tuesday, and that is why if we carry on in the same vein as we have done this season, we won't get promoted. We have the players, Hurst can take huge credit for that but when your manager is destroying players confidence left right and center and playing players because they'll 'stop the opposition' instead of concentrating on getting them to try and stop us then you have to start asking questions.

Who honestly believes Ross Hannah will definitely start on Tuesday, or Disley will definitely not stroll back into the side on Tuesday? You can't guarantee a single thing with Hurst in charge.

Our record this season looks like this;

DDDWWLWLLDWW

Which is about as consistent as the team selections.

I would like him to start with the same eleven winners on Tuesday and see how it goes, but now we have Arnold, and LJL fit again he may decide to give them a start in place of Oates and Hannah with Paddy and Disley playing some part later

Quoted from mariner91

Perhaps but that just seems like a cop out because there isn't a reasonable explanation behind it. If you have the biggest budget in the league then you should be expected to win it, sadly money talks more than anything else in football these days. I'm not for a second doubting that we don't have one of the bigger budgets, probably top 5 or top 3. But it is definitely not the biggest. So if we make the play offs this season and show continued improvement from last season then why is that a failure? If you don't have the biggest budget then continuity is your best bet at getting to the level where you'll win promotion and as long as you keep getting better then eventually it will happen (not suggesting this will certainly be the case this season, we don't know just yet).

Hypothetical situation but let's say we are pipped to 1st place by FGR, who have a much bigger budget than us (somebody reckoned just one of their strikers was on about £3500 a week!) but have played well all season and are clearly one of the two best teams in the league. We then make it to the play off final and play Bristol Rovers (another team with a bigger budget) but lose to them due to a bad refereeing decision or something equally unfortunate that can happen in one off games. Would that make the whole entire season a failure?

If my aunt had testicles she'd be my uncle. ;)

It would be sad, it would be unlucky, it would be unfair, it would be gut-wrenching but yes, it would be a self-evident failure.

The facts are quite simple. If you accept that each season we have about a 1 in 5 chance of getting promoted with the quality of players and budget we have, and this is more or less what the bookies think, that means in any one season we have about a 20% chance of going up. If you do the maths then after 5 seasons we have a 33% chance of NOT getting promoted in any of them. After 10 years it's down to 11%. As long as we keep finishing near the top the chances are we eventually go back up. Obviously it helps not having clubs like Luton and Bristol Rovers in the division who are quite a bit bigger than us, then the odds improve in our favour. If we waste money sacking managers because the odds are stacked against them then it means we have less money to spend on players, so the odds move against us.

The problem is Rob, I don't think tinkering with selections and playing to stop teams playing rather than playing to your own strengths is increasing those so called odds.

Yesterdays result and other good results this season haven't been replicated due to massive managerial inconsistencies IMO. Though after 46 games my opinion could well be proven wrong, it'd be nice if we could all celebrate that potential moment together though and not start threads like this one.

Quoted from GrimRob

The facts are quite simple. If you accept that each season we have about a 1 in 5 chance of getting promoted with the quality of players and budget we have, and this is more or less what the bookies think, that means in any one season we have about a 20% chance of going up. If you do the maths then after 5 seasons we have a 33% chance of NOT getting promoted in any of them. After 10 years it's down to 11%. As long as we keep finishing near the top the chances are we eventually go back up. Obviously it helps not having clubs like Luton and Bristol Rovers in the division who are quite a bit bigger than us, then the odds improve in our favour. If we waste money sacking managers because the odds are stacked against them then it means we have less money to spend on players, so the odds move against us.

That's all presuming nothing else changes Rob. Each season we stay in the division support dwindles. Budgets dwindle. the manager's job gets harder. If we had a budget MUCH bigger than anyone else eventually we should get promoted - but we'd need attendances like Bristol Rovers or Luton, or a sugar daddy with the resources of the Windmill Guy at FGR.

As the budget dwindles the manager needs to be really talented and probably luckier too. Hurst hasn't demonstrated he is the former and his apologists would argue he hasn't had the luck either. What was it Napoleon said about giving him lucky generals?

Quoted from 120797

Just personally what I'd like is for the doubters to have a little self reflection (just for a change !) and think twice before making the same old arguments (some ridiculous) every time we don't win in the future.
And when we do, not to ramp up the pressure even further.

It's not like there aren't plenty of examples where doubts have been raised and we've bounced back under Hurst.

Course if people simply want to be proved right that "I knew Hurst wouldn't do it", then it's a different story.
pontoonlew seems to care more about 80sglory claiming he was right (where and about what I'm not sure !) than his own team winning.
Can't get more toxic than that...

Inevitably there's more always more discussion when things aren't working than when they are.
It's not that fans shouldn't complain or criticize per se.
More that it becomes a toxic habit that is often repeated until it bears little resemblence to reality.
It's my impression that as a club, we often seem to win when gates are down.
Co-incidence ?

It's a fair point.
But for me it's more a case of how it might have been "mistaken" to complain in the first place.
Not that I expect anyone to ever be right by any means !
But after 50+ moans that are still yet to be proven correct, I'd expect a little soul searching next time round.

To be fair there wasn't a lot of complaining after Aldershot.
Although equally, we'd just won 6-1 and 7-0 and it didn't last very long after that..
I hope the OP agrees with me when I say I'd loved to be proved wrong the next time it happens.

What makes you think you know how self-reflective other people you don't know or probably haven't met are? Do you have special powers?

Same old ridiculous arguments? Soul-searching? I think you need to read Matthew 7:5 my friend.

"Plenty" of evidence of us bouncing back after a defeat? Well if that's true it just shows we've had plenty of defeats!

"But after 50+ moans that are still yet to be proven correct". Err, we're still in this division, mid-table. I'd say the folk who think we are doing well are yet to be proven correct.

Problem is to many so forum experts find a target to snipe at. They are happy telling Fenty to spend money on some mercurial manager that will win every match pay off unfinished contracts ect. Where is Fenty suppose to get all this money from??? (confused1)(confused1)(confused1)(confused1)

Quoted from pontoonlew

The problem is Rob, I don't think tinkering with selections and playing to stop teams playing rather than playing to your own strengths is increasing those so called odds.

The problem is lew, it didn't do any harm yesterday when Hurst tinkered from 4-5-1 at Kiddy to bring in Oates and play 4-4-2.
Nor when he "tinkered" and brought in Neilson and Pittman at Gateshead to win 6-1
Nor when he "tinkered" from 4-3-3 to 4-4-2 v Alfreton to win 7-0 after.
Nor when he "tinkered" (when LJL was suspended and Boyce returned see Hurst's fault...) to beat Welling 2-0.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion though.

But why don't you just say it "I don't want LJL to start on Tuesday !"
Go on, you can do it ! :)

Quoted from pontoonlew

Though after 46 games my opinion could well be proven wrong

Don't need 46 games, it's wrong now !

But if we don't win the league I'm sure you'll try to take all the credit for picking that 1/10 shot.
Suppose it would prove those so called "massive managerial inconsistencies" MUST be true.

I remember it was the same "I knew Hurst wouldn't do it !" story in last years playoffs with you too.
With your remarkable prediction record I'm only suprised you're not sunning yourself in the Carribean by now. 8)

Quoted from Fcukthescunts

Was just wondering where all the anti-hurst and anti-Fenty posters are after 7 points out of possible 9?! I am sure they will be back when we slip up again calling for Hursts head!! The fishy is such a better place at present!!

Just got back, you are quite clearly a complete cockend.

Are you 80s in disguise?

Quoted from Vance Warner

Maybe people have read all the negative remarks on the fishy and decided not to bother. This is why people who are overly negative are more of a risk to our season than those who are overly positive. That is why people get exasperated with some posters on here and can't resist a little gloat when we win a game.

Tell me you are having a laugh, are you seriously suggesting some fans have stopped going because of some comments on here, it's got nothing to do with some of the poor results and performances then.

Quoted from Mrs Doyle

Problem is to many so forum experts find a target to snipe at. They are happy telling Fenty to spend money on some mercurial manager that will win every match pay off unfinished contracts ect. Where is Fenty suppose to get all this money from??? (confused1)(confused1)(confused1)(confused1)

Oh dear....a Fenty tangent, lets see where this one goes :-/

Quoted from KingstonMariner

What makes you think you know how self-reflective other people you don't know or probably haven't met are? Do you have special powers?

No, just able to read them repeatedly complaining.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Same old ridiculous arguments? Soul-searching? I think you need to read Matthew 7:5 my friend.

You mean....
"Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote of thy brother eye."

Well if you ask me, even JC would end up banging his head against a brick wall trying to convince some people on here...

Quoted from KingstonMariner

"Plenty" of evidence of us bouncing back after a defeat? Well if that's true it just shows we've had plenty of defeats!

We must have been damn lucky to reach the playoffs in successive years then.
Obviously this season has been a slowish start.

Quoted from 120797

The problem is lew, it didn't do any harm yesterday when Hurst tinkered from 4-5-1 at Kiddy to bring in Oates and play 4-4-2.
Nor when he "tinkered" and brought in Neilson and Pittman at Gateshead to win 6-1
Nor when he "tinkered" from 4-3-3 to 4-4-2 v Alfreton to win 7-0 after.
Nor when he "tinkered" (when LJL was suspended and Boyce returned see Hurst's fault...) to beat Welling 2-0.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion though.

But why don't you just say it "I don't want LJL to start on Tuesday !"
Go on, you can do it ! :)

Don't need 46 games, it's wrong now !

But if we don't win the league I'm sure you'll try to take all the credit for picking that 1/10 shot.
Suppose it would prove those so called "massive managerial inconsistencies" MUST be true.

I remember it was the same "I knew Hurst wouldn't do it !" story in last years playoffs with you too.
With your remarkable prediction record I'm only suprised you're not sunning yourself in the Carribean by now. 8)

80's do you ever stop talking shite? Like, there is some rubbish posted on here but you are truely unbearable to even have a debate with.

Why is mine or your opinion wrong on Hurst when we're in September? Why would I 'take credit' in us not winning the league? You do realise I support this side just the same as you do, I have an opinion different to yours, please just get over that for one second.

Quoted from pontoonlew

80's do you ever stop talking shite? Like, there is some rubbish posted on here but you are truely unbearable to even have a debate with.

Not stopping you debating, I suggest you take some responsibility.

Quoted from pontoonlew

Why is mine or your opinion wrong on Hurst when we're in September?

I was referring to your "massive managerial inconsistencies" comment.
So far it's mistaken IMO, who knows what will happen in the future.

Quoted from pontoonlew

Why would I 'take credit' in us not winning the league?

I desperately hope it never come to that !
But if it does, I bet you'll be saying you were right all along about Hurst like it's some sort of creditable prediction.
To be fair it's not just you by any means.
The line "I really want Hurst to do well but I don't think he will" is bounded about like wildfire.

I'd really LOVE to know the name of a manager who fans think definitely WILL take Town up.
Any ideas ?

Quoted from pontoonlew

I have an opinion different to yours, please just get over that for one second.

I've no problem at all.
Although why I bother debating with you god knows, I must be bonkers.

Why is it wrong to say there have been inconsistencies? We currently sit 10th in the league after a very inconsistent start. We're terrible one week and world beaters the next, the manager has to take some hit for that. He clearly has built a good squad and has them playing some cracking stuff at times but when we lose games it's always as though you could see it coming when you saw the squad selection. I do hope he does well, of course I do? Because if he doesn't then surely that's detriment to the club, something not one person on this board wants (despite what some people who over hype 'negative' comments think)

You bet i'll be saying I was right all along? If that's the case then why wasn't I saying that after the play-off games which me and many many others saw coming for months in advance. We sat and got slated on this board for voicing concerns over what was going on during games. The positives are that in the games we've won we've been a lot better than last season, something Hurst can again take credit for. But we've also been massively inconsistent, much more than last year, something he has to take the blame for. You can't expect somebody to take the plaudits when it goes well but hide behind something else when it doesn't.

The over-riding fact is that we all want the best for this football club. It just seems like any so called 'negative' view on this board is deemed unacceptable, no matter how constructive. The opening post of this thread sums it up.

Quoted from pontoonlew

Why is it wrong to say there have been inconsistencies? We currently sit 10th in the league after a very inconsistent start. We're terrible one week and world beaters the next, the manager has to take some hit for that. He clearly has built a good squad and has them playing some cracking stuff at times but when we lose games it's always as though you could see it coming when you saw the squad selection. I do hope he does well, of course I do? Because if he doesn't then surely that's detriment to the club, something not one person on this board wants (despite what some people who over hype 'negative' comments think)

You bet i'll be saying I was right all along? If that's the case then why wasn't I saying that after the play-off games which me and many many others saw coming for months in advance. We sat and got slated on this board for voicing concerns over what was going on during games. The positives are that in the games we've won we've been a lot better than last season, something Hurst can again take credit for. But we've also been massively inconsistent, much more than last year, something he has to take the blame for. You can't expect somebody to take the plaudits when it goes well but hide behind something else when it doesn't.

The over-riding fact is that we all want the best for this football club. It just seems like any so called 'negative' view on this board is deemed unacceptable, no matter how constructive. The opening post of this thread sums it up.

Let's get the easy bit out of the way....I agree 100% with you about the O.P. I also agree to an extent about the inconsistency. I would ask you to consider however that inconsistency can have many causes. I have no desire to go into an 80's length explanation of what I mean but briefly I firmly believe that one of the reasons has been the injury situation and the need to play (some) players out of their natural positions. I do recognise that sometimes players have been moved from their possible best position to accommodate others. This isn't the Premiership and we don't have players of equal ability for every position sat warming the bench. Other than that there is the Boyce situation. As a manager you would expect Hurst to have some sort of plan B for the eventual return of Boyce to his parent club but for him to be called back within a day or so of having his loan extended must have caused a few headaches. No doubt some of those who think Hurst should no longer be the manager of GTFC will have a totally different view to that but....
The post I've quoted is quite possibly the most balanced post I've read from you during this whole debate. It's a great pity that because you didn't agree with 80's explanation that you accused him of talking "shite". In my view it was probably the best critique I've read on the whole "tinkering" aspect of Hurst's management (if a little wordy!!) ;) All I would say is that as the man whose living depends on GTFCs results I'd expect him to analyse all aspects of the teams performance and be aware of the strengths of Town's opponents when deciding what team to put out. As far as I'm aware there is no concrete evidence (but plenty of opinion) that he has fallen down in those areas.
I fundamentally disagree with most of what the anti-Hurst people write but prefer to answer their points with reasoned argument rather than resorting to abuse. You are not the only person entitled to an opinion and posts on both sides of the debate will quite naturally in my view trigger responses from people who don't agree. That, in a nutshell is what a message/discussion board is all about. Now, unfortunately IMO there are a lot of people on both sides who have weakened the debate by their seemingly overwhelming desire to be seen as "right" hence this thread and comments on other threads from people who appear to be unable to celebrate a 3-0 win because it puts their opinion into some doubt. It may not come from you but if Town do not get promoted this season the "I told You So" thread will be the biggest in living memory. If we do get promoted then the opposite thread will push it close!

I think the mods should close this thread down tbh, doing no good whatsoever IMO

Football will always createdebate and how we measure success varies also. Some fans see the play offs as a successful season others believe only promotion jusifies the use of that particular objective.

In reality once a team fails to meet whatever the respective fans see as success serious debate kicks in and we look deeper at tactics, team selections, entertainment value etc. the second half of the last two seasons has provided very poor quality of football with little in the line of entertainment. We go along and endure this on the premis that if we get promoted the ends justify the means. Fail and we feel cheated because we have sat through endless crap games, with little or no atmosphere, and will still be playing in BSP for another season.

In the close season some of us want change, but failing that a change of playing style. The signings, with the absence of a striker, give us hope but after three games nothing has changed, or has it, we are decimated by injuries. Improved results, the start of a new era or false dawn, defeats in derby game and next home game suggest the latter, but fans remain divided.

80's suggests those of us who are not Hurst enthusiasts are not genuine when we say we hope he proves us wrong, why ? Time will tell if PH has what it takes but what we want as a minimum is a more entertaining approach then that provided in previous seasons. There are signs that a new approach is on the cards but tinkering and injuries mean its stop start and the jury is still out. I have a season ticket but it does not get used every game because I have gone home too many times totally fed up with what I have seen. Hopefully Tuesday will rekindle enthusiasm but if not I might post some negative views which will not be shared whilst at BP where my support will be full.

Do not see why holding different views for different reasons causes so much conjecture

I'm not back in the woodwork, I'm still not convinced Hurst has the ability to take us up. We are 9 points adrift after 12 games, that is not a good a start, the team with the budget we have, should not be so inconsistent & be more in touch. To draw and lose to part-time teams as regularly as we do, is unacceptable.
Fenty will never have my respect, he has ruined my club, has presided over the worst ever decade in the clubs history and yet people still want to give him credit. Why, why, why? So many broken promises and leading fans up the garden path, I don't trust a word he speaks, nor do I ever trust him to make right, what he has wronged at GTFC.
So for me, both PH & JF need to go before we make progress, but in the short term Hurst has to go, 2 wins do not gloss over his failings and anyone who thinks overwise, because we are unbeaten in 3, is in cuckoo-land!

Actually, how often have we been terrible this season?

We were poor in the first half against Torquay but much better in the second until we were screwed by injuries. No chance after that. We were disappointing in the games against Nuneaton and Dover, albeit with a badly weakened attack and didn't do much against Bristol Rovers but we were not terrible in any of those games. The two away games we lost narrowly were down to a red card against Aldershot and a combination of missed chances and poor defending against Lincoln. We weren't terrible in either of those games either.

The past 3 games? 7 points won with a team down to the bare bones in attack (and even less than the bare bones in the creditable draw against Halifax).

All in all, terrible in perhaps one half of one game so far this season. A little disappointing in a number of others.

To be fair, I wouldn't say we've ever looked like world beaters either this season. The result against Gateshead was excellent but, as has been pointed out, the scoreline could easily have been 6-5. Alfreton looked very poor indeed though we finished our chances well.

I think we are undoubtedly a better team than last season and I'm disappointed we don't have at least a couple more wins so far, but you would have to say that we've been unlucky with injuries - two separate injury crises which have put us down to the bare bones and undoubtedly have cost us some points.

This doesn't detract from the fact that we are light up front and this is Hurst's responsibility, but things really aren't as bad as some on here seem to think.

I'm surprised how much angst some people seem to have when we're not disastrously placed, are on a good run of form at present and are beginning to get some of the injured players back fit. Let's hope the good run continues.

Quoted from ackomariner

I think the mods should close this thread down tbh, doing no good whatsoever IMO

How terrible, a thread about Grimsby Town FC on a forum about Grimsby Town FC. I agree we all should be happy right this minute but there'd be nothing to discuss then!

Quoted from GrimRob

How terrible, a thread about Grimsby Town FC on a forum about Grimsby Town FC. I agree we all should be happy right this minute but there'd be nothing to discuss then!

Stoking up the shite too then. Good lad rob

It's a standard thread on a messageboard. I don't think it's going to have any good or bad impact on a football club.

Quoted from barralad

The post I've quoted is quite possibly the most balanced post I've read from you during this whole debate.

Was gonna say the same !

Quoted from barralad

It's a great pity that because you didn't agree with 80's explanation that you accused him of talking "shite".

Lol no problem, I've been called worse tonight ;D

Tbh I've no problem with fans saying we should perhaps have got more out of some games where we STILL played well.
Lincoln (poor defending), Aldershot (on top til LJL sent off), Torquay I missed (injuries?), early 0-0's players missed chances.
Does e.g. Brown take no responsibility for missing from a yard out ?
Or is that all Hurst's fault ?

But what I still can't understand lew is how you equate FORCED team changes (and tbf they're not always we've disagreed on Disley) with "tinkering" and blame Hurst for it.

Maybe "not being at full strength" explains most of the "inconsistency" ?
Injuries and "luck" (hardly consistent) have more of an effect on the outcome when you're understrength than winning 6-0 and 7-1.

Simply put the general pattern so far has been
injuries (bad luck),..... near full strength, .....injuries.....-> players returning

Does this partly answer your "inconsistency" gripe lew ?

We're slowly returning to full strength now (Aswad, Pittman, still not back, Arnold & LJL yet to start)
Perhaps we'll gain more "consistency" once we're nearer full strength ?

But even then, football doesn't always go in consistent WWWWWW straight lines.
What are you looking for lew ? An unbeaten run ?

End of the day even if you disagree, no-one can force anyone to answer or say "Oh yes, I see what you mean" or "You've lost me".
Surely you appreciate the point at large ?

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

80's suggests those of us who are not Hurst enthusiasts are not genuine when we say we hope he proves us wrong, why ?

Is that question addressed to me ?
I'm not saying everyone who is not a Hurst enthusiast isn't genuine at all !
Just some NEVER seem to accept any mitigating circumstances.
Sorry but I really can't believe those who never see the value to any of the many possible reasons/excuses.
Yourself for example accepts "we are decimated by injuries" and "tinkering and injuries mean its stop start" that's great !
You are entirely welcome to still have your view on Hurst. :)
But all this "I've got a different opinion to you" stonewalling smacks of unnecessary defensiveness.
Some may not believe it but no-one's pointing the finger.
People are merely trying to explain a different perspective to try to ease unnecessary worries when they believe the fingers are being pointed unfairly (see opinion).
Sorry but the idea that e.g. Hurst is "tinkering" (and that's why we lost so it's Hurst's fault) if players get injured and he's forced to change the side is simply ridiculous !
Eventually you start to wonder if for some, it really is a campaign to never agree and just remove Hurst.

Quoted from Maringer

The past 3 games? 7 points won with a team down to the bare bones in attack (and even less than the bare bones in the creditable draw against Halifax).

Great post and this point especially, is reason enough to be optimistic.
Or failing that, at least wonder where we might end up...

Quoted from Maringer

Alfreton looked very poor indeed though we finished our chances well.

Still, I thought we played really well, positive signs are there IMO.

Quoted from Maringer

Actually, how often have we been terrible this season?

We were poor in the first half against Torquay but much better in the second until we were screwed by injuries. No chance after that. We were disappointing in the games against Nuneaton and Dover, albeit with a badly weakened attack and didn't do much against Bristol Rovers but we were not terrible in any of those games. The two away games we lost narrowly were down to a red card against Aldershot and a combination of missed chances and poor defending against Lincoln. We weren't terrible in either of those games either.

The past 3 games? 7 points won with a team down to the bare bones in attack (and even less than the bare bones in the creditable draw against Halifax).

All in all, terrible in perhaps one half of one game so far this season. A little disappointing in a number of others.

To be fair, I wouldn't say we've ever looked like world beaters either this season. The result against Gateshead was excellent but, as has been pointed out, the scoreline could easily have been 6-5. Alfreton looked very poor indeed though we finished our chances well.

I think we are undoubtedly a better team than last season and I'm disappointed we don't have at least a couple more wins so far, but you would have to say that we've been unlucky with injuries - two separate injury crises which have put us down to the bare bones and undoubtedly have cost us some points.

This doesn't detract from the fact that we are light up front and this is Hurst's responsibility, but things really aren't as bad as some on here seem to think.

I'm surprised how much angst some people seem to have when we're not disastrously placed, are on a good run of form at present and are beginning to get some of the injured players back fit. Let's hope the good run continues.

Good, balanced post mate.

Quoted from Maringer

Actually, how often have we been terrible this season?

We were poor in the first half against Torquay but much better in the second until we were screwed by injuries. No chance after that. We were disappointing in the games against Nuneaton and Dover, albeit with a badly weakened attack and didn't do much against Bristol Rovers but we were not terrible in any of those games. The two away games we lost narrowly were down to a red card against Aldershot and a combination of missed chances and poor defending against Lincoln. We weren't terrible in either of those games either.

The past 3 games? 7 points won with a team down to the bare bones in attack (and even less than the bare bones in the creditable draw against Halifax).

All in all, terrible in perhaps one half of one game so far this season. A little disappointing in a number of others.

To be fair, I wouldn't say we've ever looked like world beaters either this season. The result against Gateshead was excellent but, as has been pointed out, the scoreline could easily have been 6-5. Alfreton looked very poor indeed though we finished our chances well.

I think we are undoubtedly a better team than last season and I'm disappointed we don't have at least a couple more wins so far, but you would have to say that we've been unlucky with injuries - two separate injury crises which have put us down to the bare bones and undoubtedly have cost us some points.

This doesn't detract from the fact that we are light up front and this is Hurst's responsibility, but things really aren't as bad as some on here seem to think.

I'm surprised how much angst some people seem to have when we're not disastrously placed, are on a good run of form at present and are beginning to get some of the injured players back fit. Let's hope the good run continues.

Good post. There's truth there.

Reading many posts on this thread there seems to be an obsession about criticism as if it will somehow spoil things for a team doing well. This misses the whole point of criticism which is actually to support the team in the future based on what has happened in the past. If we turn round like that we can see the criticism is really trying to forestall problems before they happen. It might be pessimism but optimism without planning is plain barmy.

For instance several posters talk about injury problems and their effect, which is true. The point so many miss though is that at least one of those was predictable (Pittman) and the squad strength in strikers has been very low all season. Both elements are down to the manager aren't they? So instead of performances improving as the injured players return, they could actually go downhill because there will continue to be more injuries.

Oates is a good loan signing it seems. Being our main striker is a big ask though, plus there is the recall to Barnsley factor. Pressure therefore on LJL, Hannah and Arnold increases (we can forget Pittman altogether for now), with likelihood of injuries and suspension increased. Nobody needs a crystal ball to see that a quality striker signing is a huge priority and the art of management is anticipation of problems.

The same applies to player performances across the team. Clay and Brown are doing pretty well. What happens if one or both go off the boil or get injured? Disley doesn't seem to be flavour of the month with some fans does he? Paddy doesn't seem to have the manager's confidence. The goalkeeper could be hurt, or he could have a drop in form. What is the contingency if this happened the night before we play an away game in February? We might ask if it is at all sensible for a promotion seeking side to have no back up to its goalkeeper.

No club, even promotion candidates, ever gets through a season without some sort of crisis on the playing side. What I think most of the critics of PH feel uneasy about is his ability to deal with those situations and not let them become excuses for failing to get out of this league.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Good post. There's truth there.

Reading many posts on this thread there seems to be an obsession about criticism as if it will somehow spoil things for a team doing well. This misses the whole point of criticism which is actually to support the team in the future based on what has happened in the past. If we turn round like that we can see the criticism is really trying to forestall problems before they happen. It might be pessimism but optimism without planning is plain barmy.

For instance several posters talk about injury problems and their effect, which is true. The point so many miss though is that at least one of those was predictable (Pittman) and the squad strength in strikers has been very low all season. Both elements are down to the manager aren't they? So instead of performances improving as the injured players return, they could actually go downhill because there will continue to be more injuries.

Oates is a good loan signing it seems. Being our main striker is a big ask though, plus there is the recall to Barnsley factor. Pressure therefore on LJL, Hannah and Arnold increases (we can forget Pittman altogether for now), with likelihood of injuries and suspension increased. Nobody needs a crystal ball to see that a quality striker signing is a huge priority and the art of management is anticipation of problems.

The same applies to player performances across the team. Clay and Brown are doing pretty well. What happens if one or both go off the boil or get injured? Disley doesn't seem to be flavour of the month with some fans does he? Paddy doesn't seem to have the manager's confidence. The goalkeeper could be hurt, or he could have a drop in form. What is the contingency if this happened the night before we play an away game in February? We might ask if it is at all sensible for a promotion seeking side to have no back up to its goalkeeper.

No club, even promotion candidates, ever gets through a season without some sort of crisis on the playing side. What I think most of the critics of PH feel uneasy about is his ability to deal with those situations and not let them become excuses for failing to get out of this league.

Good Post Chips,

I am still sitting on the fence about whether Hurst has it in him to get us promotion,

He has a lot of good points and he has got us a decent squad together,

BUT

A decent squad never got anybody promoted,

We are still lacking that striker that will make the difference,

Let's hope one comes available if not it will be the lottery of the play offs again,

A lot on here will say the play offs is success,

You and I with a few others will say,

Only getting promoted is success.

Decided to leave this thread alone till now as the OP was clearly excrement-stirring.

I think there are three camps here - those with the rose-tinted specs who believe that Hurst is the man to take us up, those that hope he's the man to take us up and those that don't think he's got a cat in hell's chance.

From what I saw last season I'm in the latter but as I have only seen the televised game this season, I'm clearly not in a position to justify my opinion- clearly I'll have a better idea when I've been tomorrow!

Final thought. No-one is right or wrong (apart from 80s who's right about everything including the spelling of hypocrite) on this. Forums are a platform for differing opinion. My opinion is my thoughts on the situation in hand, it doesn't matter to me if you agree or don't, it doesn't offend me if it's the latter. What it doesn't do is give anyone the reason or excuse to be offensive or disrespectful as some posters have been.

Really wish we could just talk about the team / manager / games rather than talking about the people who have different opinions on those things! :(

Personally I'm really glad the team seem to be finding their feet again now and hopefully we can go into a good run :)

Quoted from chicaneuk

Really wish we could just talk about the team / manager / games rather than talking about the people who have different opinions on those things! :(

Personally I'm really glad the team seem to be finding their feet again now and hopefully we can go into a good run :)

Amen to that, from being weak up front we now have Hannah,Oates,LJL, and Arnold fit and ready, but what combination?

really enjoyed reading this thread during my lunch hour ;D

Quoted from Hagrid

really enjoyed reading this thread during my lunch hour ;D

well I will make a quick appearance then to ruin it ;D

Quoted from jonnyboy82

well I will make a quick appearance then to ruin it ;D

finished at 1 jonny! you've made my afternoon by commenting! ;)

Quoted from Hagrid

finished at 1 jonny! you've made my afternoon by commenting! ;)

:-/

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

For instance several posters talk about injury problems and their effect, which is true. The point so many miss though is that at least one of those was predictable (Pittman) and the squad strength in strikers has been very low all season. Both elements are down to the manager aren't they?

Obviously Pittman was an injury risk (as all players are) but I really can't see who predicted he would be injured and can't for the life of me see how it's Hurst's fault he was.
You might call it "lack of planning" but getting 2 strikers (i.e. LJL) injured in the same game is a bit of a black swan to say the least, hardly predictable.
In any case, as far as I was aware Hurst WAS looking wasn't he ?
It's easy to bring in any old player but you can do that AFTER the injuries strike.
As it happened he brought in Oates who made an instant impact.

Signing a player with a poor injury record may be questionable but on the evidence so far, think Hurst was right to take a punt regardless of what happens in the future.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

So instead of performances improving as the injured players return, they could actually go downhill because there will continue to be more injuries.

So are you saying you'd leave out Pittman when he's available ?
I agree we may not get the best out of players straight after they return.
But that's the point, they need games...
Mackreth is now showing a little better form for example.
Either you decide to play them and try to navigate your way through or you just leave them to rot on the sidelines.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

The same applies to player performances across the team. Clay and Brown are doing pretty well. What happens if one or both go off the boil or get injured? Disley doesn't seem to be flavour of the month with some fans does he? Paddy doesn't seem to have the manager's confidence. The goalkeeper could be hurt, or he could have a drop in form. What is the contingency if this happened the night before we play an away game in February?

We might ask if it is at all sensible for a promotion seeking side to have no back up to its goalkeeper.

Not sure what you're getting at here - are you suggesting we need another central midfielder and goalkeeper ?

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Final thought. No-one is right or wrong (apart from 80s who's right about everything including the spelling of hypocrite) on this. Forums are a platform for differing opinion. My opinion is my thoughts on the situation in hand, it doesn't matter to me if you agree or don't, it doesn't offend me if it's the latter. What it doesn't do is give anyone the reason or excuse to be offensive or disrespectful as some posters have been.

I have never claimed I'm right about anything.
Yes people are entitled to their views, but for whatever reason, you and others don't seem to like it when I do.
Personally I call you saying I claim I'm right about everything inaccurate and disrespectful but that's just me.
For the record, I've never abused anyone on here (least I don't think so), yet have received a lot of abusive remarks.
Luckily I've got a thick skin.

Quoted from 120797

Obviously Pittman was an injury risk (as all players are) but I really can't see who predicted he would be injured and can't for the life of me see how it's Hurst's fault he was.
You might call it "lack of planning" but getting 2 strikers (i.e. LJL) injured in the same game is a bit of a black swan to say the least, hardly predictable.
In any case, as far as I was aware Hurst WAS looking wasn't he ?
It's easy to bring in any old player but you can do that AFTER the injuries strike.
As it happened he brought in Oates who made an instant impact.

Signing a player with a poor injury record may be questionable but on the evidence so far, think Hurst was right to take a punt regardless of what happens in the future.

So are you saying you'd leave out Pittman when he's available ?
I agree we may not get the best out of players straight after they return.
But that's the point, they need games...
Mackreth is now showing a little better form for example.
Either you decide to play them and try to navigate your way through or you just leave them to rot on the sidelines.

Not sure what you're getting at here - are you suggesting we need another central midfielder and goalkeeper ?

Having 2 strikers injured at the same time was fairly predictable as was a suspension given the refereeing standards. Pittman is a class player who will never be fit enough to play a long term role for this or any club. Sad but true. Arnold might but I wouldn't hold my breath. We only have one goalkeeper, an obvious fact. We have 2 central midfielders playing well. Do we have good back up? Maybe, maybe not. This is what managing is all about.

I think you are being obtuse and arguing for arguments sake.

You know exactly the point I am making. A manager has to deal with such situations. Does he have a strong enough squad in key positions? No he doesn't. What will he do? Dive in a loan market which is a lottery? Oates is good, the next one might be useless. PH has not yet proved to me (and others) that he can deal with injuries, suspensions and slides of form and keep the points rolling in during the tough months when promotions are won and lost. Simple as that.

For god sake...

The point I'm making is no-one said "I can see 2 strikers getting injured today".
I accept there was always a chance (and maybe a better one) PIttman might get injured.
But equally you can't account for him stretching for a ball near the touchline.
And it can happen to anyone.

Who knows if Hurst has managed the striker situation well or not from day 1.
It may be he hasn't done well or has simply had difficulty finding the right players.
Personally I'm not gonna judge on the basis on guesswork.

Yes I know Hurst has to look ahead and deal with the situation - I disagree with your general assessment.
I've no idea on the budget and how much is left in the kitty.
But get the impression he doesn't have license to make a raft of quality signings in every position.
Obviously I hope I'm wrong and we do.
However signing a top class goalkeeper to be no2 to Macca feels like uneccesarily pissing money down the drain.
When I assume it would be easy enough to get a replacement if he got injured (assuming Bastock isn't up to it).

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Having 2 strikers injured at the same time was fairly predictable as was a suspension given the refereeing standards. Pittman is a class player who will never be fit enough to play a long term role for this or any club. Sad but true. Arnold might but I wouldn't hold my breath. We only have one goalkeeper, an obvious fact. We have 2 central midfielders playing well. Do we have good back up? Maybe, maybe not. This is what managing is all about.

I think you are being obtuse and arguing for arguments sake.

You know exactly the point I am making. A manager has to deal with such situations. Does he have a strong enough squad in key positions? No he doesn't. What will he do? Dive in a loan market which is a lottery? Oates is good, the next one might be useless. PH has not yet proved to me (and others) that he can deal with injuries, suspensions and slides of form and keep the points rolling in during the tough months when promotions are won and lost. Simple as that.

At the risk of being thought of as obtuse you appear to be advocating not only extra players to cover for the unlikely event of two strikers being injured at the same time but also someone to warm the bench in case of a suspension to a defender? Your view on what constitutes "management" misses one vital part IMO particularly relevant in the fifth tier of English football that being "risk management". I actually find the arguments for another striker compelling but goals can come from all over the pitch. We have midfielders who have already opened their accounts this term and we know the capabilities of Disley and Neilson in that area. Whilst I'm sure we do have a competitive budget it is wishful thinking to assume that there is money there for such luxuries as players to cover for injuries/suspensions other than the players we have already signed. Certainly across the back four we have personnel who can play in a variety of positions to good effect to the extent that we have coped fairly well with Aswad's injury. We appear to have players across midfield with cover for the different challenges to be faced. I suspect most managers at our level see the loan market lottery as the place to go if squads are stretched unless you happen to be FGR which we are clearly not.
My final point on the striker issue...Can I ask what would happen if we had the much talked of 20 goal striker and he got injured? Oh wait a minute.......

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Decided to leave this thread alone till now as the OP was clearly excrement-stirring.

I think there are three camps here - those with the rose-tinted specs who believe that Hurst is the man to take us up, those that hope he's the man to take us up and those that don't think he's got a cat in hell's chance.

From what I saw last season I'm in the latter but as I have only seen the televised game this season, I'm clearly not in a position to justify my opinion- clearly I'll have a better idea when I've been tomorrow!

Final thought. No-one is right or wrong (apart from 80s who's right about everything including the spelling of hypocrite) on this. Forums are a platform for differing opinion. My opinion is my thoughts on the situation in hand, it doesn't matter to me if you agree or don't, it doesn't offend me if it's the latter. What it doesn't do is give anyone the reason or excuse to be offensive or disrespectful as some posters have been.

I sincerely hope you enjoy the game and that Town continue in the vein of the last three games. You do however realise that should they lose it will be your fault.. :)