For me, Paul Hurst has made two massive decisions in the last week.

1. He decides to put the club captain on the bench. Now I'm not the only who has suspected that Diz has not been at his best but he did always seem to be a bit bullet proof in the managers eyes.

2. The more important decision. He has set up a team to play the way he wants to play rather than set up to counteract the opposition. I know that Doig said pre-Gateshead that they had a plan for Gateshead but it still seems a much more positive way of playing.

Full credit to whoever formulated the plan - let's hope more teams worry about us rather than the other way round,

I'd tend to doubt there is any real difference in the approach to each game. As a manager, Hurst is always going to set up his team to nullify the opponents' strengths and try to hit their weaknesses. What is different is that Neilson (probably our best attacker) has returned from suspension in some good form and also Pittman is now fit enough to start games and has linked up well with LJL.

The addition of just a couple of good players can make an enormous difference to a team's performances as has been seen in the past 2 games.

Its only 2 games lets remember....

We played very well but its the next game now what counts and all this will be for nothing if we dont do the buisness at aldershot.

I remember when we thrashed mansfield and histon over a bank holiday and we remember how that turned out.

Full credit to hurst and the team but lets not get carried away hey.

Connell was also dropped to the bench (besides Disley).

He stuck with Shop and Clay, despite a lot of criticism.

Pittman became fit (forming a good partnership with Shop)

Neilson came back from suspension.

Hurst played 3 good CBs in defence.

Overall, Hurst kept his nerve, despite starting the season with severely weakened teams.  He brought in some very good players (some good with hindsight) and made excellent selection decisions.  He had the courage to be more adventurous at Gateshead and got his results. He should take all the plaudits due to him after 5 games. A long way to go.  

I think he just did what many of us were crying out for, an entertaining brand of football. Not only does that draw in the crowds, it wins games if you've got the players to do it which we have. I know people were happy with 1-0 wins but at some point as we saw all too often, you come unstuck. We can still have that gritty performance in our locker but it looks like we've finally decided to play our way and not somebody elses.

Whether or not that was always the plan or he sort of forced it upon himself we'll probably never know. But the fact is that it's worked wonders the last two games and has boosted the confidence of every single person at the club.

I have been a critic of PH for his tactics in the past but there has clearly been a change in thinking in the last 2 games. Last year's Hurst would have sent out a team at Gateshead to defend deep and play on the break leaving LJL isolated up front. Even playing Neilson and Pittman would not have changed that because he would have withdrawn them to support the full backs. We would have been moaning on here about the huge gap in midfield.

It may be a sign that he has got the message about being proactive and if he wants a quick passing game he has to have a pressing game too. He's not quite got the pressing part right yet but I hope he sticks with it. Let the others worry about us while we out run and out pass them.

Suppose we can debate what Hurst is, was or has been thinking all day long.

Whatever the reasons (and there's been a LOT of mitigating circumstances IMO), we've seen more energetic (and perhaps positive depending on your own definition) football from the off last 2 games.

Whether you can always do that every game in regard to the oppositions tactics or a long tough season is another matter I'd guess.

All I really know is we've hit 2 teams with energy and pace (sometimes on the counter), haven't taken our foot off the gas to coast or protect leads when ahead (not that Hurst didn't v Dover either tbf) and it's all ended up with 2 rivals getting whooped and been truly magnificent.

BP yesterday reminded me of yesteryear when we used to overraw (even the best !) teams here using the crowd to our advantage.
As long as the fans can try to emulate the positivity of the football they'd ideally like to see through the bumpier and trickier times, I firmly believe (and have always believed) the magic has always been there and we're a club with massive potential and can beat almost anyone on our day.

Being realistic about the past too though, it didn't always happen.  
Not that I guess will it every game in the future either (we can but hope !)
Just think the combination of good football and positive fans (especially at BP) are often the key to something very special indeed.

Quoted from pontoonlew

Whether or not that was always the plan or he sort of forced it upon himself we'll probably never know. But the fact is that it's worked wonders the last two games and has boosted the confidence of every single person at the club.

I think we have to give him the benefit of the doubt that this was the plan. It's difficult putting a good squad together and I don't believe it just fell in to place by itself.

I think it's virtually the same as with any job, it usually takes a lot of unseen hard work to make it look easy/lucky.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Let the others worry about us while we out run and out pass them.

Suppose that's fine in open games, perhaps another challenge may be when faced with teams who park the bus or defend in numbers.

Other skills are perhaps required here.
To keep possession around the box and be creative unlocking teams in the process.
Confident it's possible and do-able though.

Also without wanting to sound downbeat about yesterday in any way, shape or form, the drive and energy on display was perhaps to the detriment of the final ball or shot on 1 or 2 occasions.
In short, noticed we were too eager for our own good once or twice when a little more composure might have been better.

Quoted from jonnyboy82

I remember when we thrashed mansfield and histon over a bank holiday and we remember how that turned out.

Fair enough but equally (without having a dig at anyone or their views at all) could say I remember 0-0, 0-0, 1-1, calls for the manager to be sacked, then going on to win 6-1 and 7-0.

Won't mention the dreaded P & N words, just saying perhaps it depends which bits of "the past" you want to take.
Personally I'm not a huge believer in stats as an indicator to the future anyway.

Quoted from jonnyboy82

all this will be for nothing if we dont do the buisness at aldershot.

6 point is 6 points to the total.
I'm very positive about winning at Aldershot but being realistic too, we're not gonna win every remaining game so would argue we shouldn't be itching to point the finger or say it's all gone t1ts up if we don't.

Just to clarify,  if we don't beat Aldershot do they take some of the 6 points won over the weekend off us?

Every post in this thread makes really good points. Lots to agree with.

Perhaps Hurst has always wanted to play this way but has never had the right personnel 'til now. All the pieces have fallen into place maybe? We didn't have enough pace to play a high pressing game last season

IMO as someone said on another thread, it was probably his plan all along to play pressing football this season judging by the pacy/mobile midfielders and attackers he brought in (Clay, Brown, Arnold, Mackreth etc), it's just that it's only just happened because the players he brought in to do this were injured.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Just to clarify,  if we don't beat Aldershot do they take some of the 6 points won over the weekend off us?

Guess you've heard of the term "dropped points" ? ;)

Quoted from chaos33

Every post in this thread makes really good points. Lots to agree with.

Indeed, was noticing myself it was most flurry of green ticks for everyone.
Not too regularly I agree with ginny, Codger. lew etc either and I'm often Mr red cross man myself.

So fact we can reach agreement is another positive too.
Perhaps we're close to something very good here...

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Just to clarify,  if we don't beat Aldershot do they take some of the 6 points won over the weekend off us?

;D

Quoted from pontoonlew

I think he just did what many of us were crying out for, an entertaining brand of football. Not only does that draw in the crowds, it wins games if you've got the players to do it which we have. I know people were happy with 1-0 wins but at some point as we saw all too often, you come unstuck. We can still have that gritty performance in our locker but it looks like we've finally decided to play our way and not somebody elses.

Whether or not that was always the plan or he sort of forced it upon himself we'll probably never know. But the fact is that it's worked wonders the last two games and has boosted the confidence of every single person at the club.

Do you think PH has never set out to play entertaining and attacking football? It's a hard thing to do, it's something that you have to get right and have the correct personnel for, it's not necessarily a choice.

PH got has given us our best defence for years and has clearly wanted to improve our attacking options, he has made key signings with pace and now they're fit we are seeing more attacking football. You've been endless in your criticism of Hurst's tactics and his selection of the Shop, I think it's pretty amusing that LJL was the pivotal player in our fantastic attacking play over the weekend, so I am pretty chuffed he didn't do what you were crying out for and stuck to his guns.  

One more good point is,

Old Codger is smiling again,

Welcome back mate. :)

Quoted from grimsby pete

One more good point is,

Old Codger is smiling again,

Welcome back mate. :)

Steady on Pete. One great weekend can't and won't put the club back where it needs to be  ;) but it's a positive leap from where we were 10 days ago. We need to be back in the league and we need a new stadium and the best chance to deliver both is by delivering on the pitch.

I'm not going to be practising my somersaults just yet  8)

Can I just clarify if we don't win Sat is Hurst crap again and should be sacked.  ;)

Quoted from cleethorpes_mariner

Can I just clarify if we don't win Sat is Hurst crap again and should be sacked.  ;)

And will the Fenty bashing start again.

Quoted from cleethorpes_mariner

Can I just clarify if we don't win Sat is Hurst crap again and should be sacked.  ;)

You're being far too kind !
Some complain when he's winning 3 successive away games 1-0 on the bounce.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

so I am pretty chuffed he didn't do what you were crying out for and stuck to his guns.  

On a similar note, hurst was criticised on here  for publicly backing the shop last week- after which the shop performs. Maybe the shops new found confidence was due to the man management skills and constant backing by hurst rather than the constant excrement he has been receiving by fans- which someone on here suggested was the cause of his improved goal scoring!

Why did it take so long?

Depends what you mean.
4 games in sounds pretty quick to me.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Why did it take so long?

The suspensions and the injuries not allowing his favoured team to be played after evaluating last season's squad and purchasing accordingly over the summer?

Quoted from MuddyWaters

For me, Paul Hurst has made two massive decisions in the last week.

1. He decides to put the club captain on the bench. Now I'm not the only who has suspected that Diz has not been at his best but he did always seem to be a bit bullet proof in the managers eyes.

2. The more important decision. He has set up a team to play the way he wants to play rather than set up to counteract the opposition. I know that Doig said pre-Gateshead that they had a plan for Gateshead but it still seems a much more positive way of playing.

Full credit to whoever formulated the plan - let's hope more teams worry about us rather than the other way round,

More than one poster on here  ;)

Doesn't matter why and we don't know. I doubt LJL knows why either. Need to keep playing the winning way and nothing else matters (as Metallica would say). As per thread comment above PH might be slated for 3 x 1 nil wins but Id be more than happy with a season full of them!

Quoted from headingly_mariner

Do you think PH has never set out to play entertaining and attacking football? It's a hard thing to do, it's something that you have to get right and have the correct personnel for, it's not necessarily a choice.

PH got has given us our best defence for years and has clearly wanted to improve our attacking options, he has made key signings with pace and now they're fit we are seeing more attacking football. You've been endless in your criticism of Hurst's tactics and his selection of the Shop, I think it's pretty amusing that LJL was the pivotal player in our fantastic attacking play over the weekend, so I am pretty chuffed he didn't do what you were crying out for and stuck to his guns.  

All those critical always wanted Toto at Right Back though didn't they? And Craig Clay as the midfield fulcrum. He just did what they all wanted.

Evidence ?

I've been through "Team for Gateshead" and can only see a small handful of posters wanting Nsiala at RB.
http://www.thefishy.co.uk/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?m-1408389851/s-0/
I can see 1 (me) who wanted Clay in.

There's no "Team for Alfreton" thread at all !  

Are we simply to assume the merry bunch were all saying "stick with Clay and the same defence who won 6-1 at Gateshead" ?

Or was it simply "keep the same team for Alfreton" ?
Wow amazing !
Thank god Hurst have you critical "told you so's" (though it seems no-one did !) to rely on.  ::)

I was being facetious. I think some have tried to downplay what PH did but I thought he was creative and brave with his selection and astute in the way he set them up for the different challenges of Gateshead at home and Alfreton away.

Well done on managing to label people 'told you so's' and including the line 'I can see 1 (me) who wanted Clay in' within the same post  ;)

The only thing I don't understand is that if PH knew that Toto could play at RB then why didn't he play him there and move Magnay to LB against Dover? I never thought the back 3 looked totally comfortable against Dover and certainly Boyce didn't seem to like being pulled out to the left side ( where incidentally their goal came from). Hopefully that is all behind us but I think it is one combination that didn't look right or comfortable.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

I was being facetious.

Fine.
Didn't sound like it at all, most use winks.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Well done on managing to label people 'told you so's' and including the line 'I can see 1 (me) who wanted Clay in' within the same post  ;)

Not taking any credit whatsoever.
Just saying I've evidence not taking credit and others trying to claim credit don't seem to have.
You can't deny there are some trying to take the credit ?
Course anyone can claim what they like was true after the event. Ironic, sounds a bit like you !

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

I thought he was creative and brave with his selection and astute in the way he set them up for the different challenges of Gateshead at home and Alfreton away.

I guess that's another facetious comment.

Anyway, aren't/are you a "never change a winning team" man ? (seen your 6-1 / 7-0 clause in "Team for Aldershot")
If so please make your mind up, either you want him to be brave and at least consider making possibly helpful changes or you don't...

I actually agree Hurst was creative and brave, least at Gateshead.
Perhaps he'll be brave enough in your book to change the team for a different challenge at Aldershot all depending on what he believes is best short and long term.

It was, regardless of no wink. Given virtually nobody wanted Clay selected I thought the point I was making to be fairly self-evident.

I have no idea why you think I claim credit after the event. What event and what claim? I think the players, PH and the Town fans at the two games deserve credit for those wins. The idea that people posting on here made a diffrrence is loopy in my opinion.

That comment above re PH was not intended to be facetious. If it was I'd have put a wink.

I wouldn't change the team on Sat unless unavoidable as we've won our last two games by a net score of 13-1. I don't believe the game warrants personnel changes but guess tactically he'll do what he feels best.

All of the statements above are facetious  ;)

Quoted from rancido

The only thing I don't understand is that if PH knew that Toto could play at RB then why didn't he play him there and move Magnay to LB against Dover?

Rightly or wrongly cos he was playing 3-5-2.
For me, if you're missing LOTS of players (especially wingers), it seems reasonable enough to counter Dover's 3-5-2.

Quoted from rancido

I never thought the back 3 looked totally comfortable against Dover and certainly Boyce didn't seem to like being pulled out to the left side ( where incidentally their goal came from).

I agree about Boyce here. (good observation IMO that said I'd blame the 3 missing tacklers for the goal...)
Then again, first time we've gone 3-5-2 so perhaps too early to expect too much too soon.
Guess the more we use it, the more effective it'll/they'll be.
Back 3 did ok for me, most of the criticism was about choice of wingbacks.
That's why all things considered, think it was reasonable enough for Hurst to say they did ok.

For me, it's a bit like those who (perhaps justifyably) were wondering about Clay in pre-season.
Pre-season isn't always a good yardstick to rate a player's worth over the season.
Least for me, I'll look for talent and promise pre-season, not so much where they're going wrong.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

It was, regardless of no wink. Given virtually nobody wanted Clay selected I thought the point I was making to be fairly self-evident.

Oh well.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

I have no idea why you think I claim credit after the event.

I don't, I said others.
Perhaps you haven't been reading the forum in huge depth.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

I wouldn't change the team on Sat unless unavoidable as we've won our last two games by a net score of 13-1. I don't believe the game warrants personnel changes but guess tactically he'll do what he feels best.

Yes I saw your 6-1 / 7-0 comment before, just wondered if you agree with "never change a winning team".

Not necessarily but I think there'd have to be a compelling reason to change it after 2 wins like that and I can't see one. I do think some modern managers have a propensity to over-complicate and to constantly tweak their teams, sometimes almost for the sake of it.

Cant believe the discussion has turned into supporters taking credit for managerial decisions and tactical changes??

I am sure Hursts team selection and tactics had absolutely nothing to do with whatever anybody was calling for on here,

Tongue in cheek or not the conversation has developed a degree of seriousness about it. WTF??

Yeah was thinking the same, hence saying nowt really.

Fair enough Rodley, just wondering.
Suppose it might appear like that but beg to differ managers do anything "for the sake of it" at all.

Not talking about Sat here but guess fitness is such a big long term factor, especially with the club setup now.
e.g. in the oldun days we had the reserves to help keep players match fit.
I know we've "put games on" in the past but not half as good IMO.
But equally less need for reserve side now (or maybe just not worth the money) especially with a smaller squad.

Anyway, if same 1st team end up performing well next say 5-10 games or more (let's hope so !)...
Then great problem to have knowing if a player gets injured, others replacing may not be match fit/potential weak links.
Fair case for worrying about all that later of course...
But equally last thing we want is to fall on our backside seasons end. (where fatigue can be a big factor of course...)

Regarding long term fatigue and injuries, also why playing 100mph football each game concerns me a little too.
I'd love (and hope) to see us continue with the same pace and aggression Sat. Just you can't do it with the SAME starters for 46+ games ?!!
Being optimistic, suppose we might just romp away with title with room to spare.
Seems highly unlikely with Sat/Tues games but tbf can't say it's impossible - they might yet be that good ! (but for how long... ?)

Mate, I think it's best to organise your thoughts before posting, rather than just an internal dialogue/stream of consciousness type thing. It's quite hard to understand/follow!  ;)

Not having a go, just think your points get lost at times.

Well mate, if you can't follow it or don't like it..
Maybe best thing is not to read it in the first place !

It's a bit like those complaining about Hurst on MP.
No-one ever forces anyone to listen...  

Maybe next time you or Codger decide to write a critical analysis essay I'll just go "zzzzzzzz" too.

Quoted from 120797

Well mate, if you can't follow it or don't like it..
Maybe best thing is not to read it in the first place !

It's a bit like those complaining about Hurst on MP.
No-one ever forces anyone to listen...  

Maybe next time you or Codger decide to write a critical analysis essay I'll just go "zzzzzzzz" too.

Don't be a poor sport.

Is that what you want - to be ignored? I doubt that, coming from a man who recently posted an 18 point polemic.

What are you saying? Your post seems to somehow be alluding to your old favourite about squad rotation. Maybe you should follow your own advice to the Bignot thread poster, and just say what you've got to say. Do you think Hurst should be making some changes for the weekend game or not?

No, there's no need to be snappy (I don't get the point about codger). I read your posts, but I've re-read the one in question and I cant decipher it. If you're big enough to take a bit of feedback, I think your views would get a better hearing if they were more succinct.

Quoted from mike_d

The suspensions and the injuries not allowing his favoured team to be played after evaluating last season's squad and purchasing accordingly over the summer?

I was referring to this:
"Maybe the shops new found confidence was due to the man management skills and constant backing by hurst".  Begs the question if it was that good it would have been quicker.

Quoted from 120797

Depends what you mean.
4 games in sounds pretty quick to me.

I thought he came in Jan/Feb 2013 not Aug 14.

Quoted from cleethorpes_mariner

Can I just clarify if we don't win Sat is Hurst crap again and should be sacked.  ;)

Can't win us Neg-Heads (copyright Cod Almighty)! If we moan when we don't beat crap sides the Happy Clappers have a go. If we don't moan because we've won, folk still have a go.

Do you want us to flipping moan or not?

Quoted from 120797

Well mate, if you can't follow it or don't like it..
Maybe best thing is not to read it in the first place !

It's a bit like those complaining about Hurst on MP.
No-one ever forces anyone to listen...  

Maybe next time you or Codger decide to write a critical analysis essay I'll just go "zzzzzzzz" too.

Yeah, but it'd be a bit daft forking out £37 then never listening. Not a great marketing strategy.

Quoted from chaos33

Don't be a poor sport.

Is that what you want - to be ignored? I doubt that, coming from a man who recently posted an 18 point polemic.

What are you saying? Your post seems to somehow be alluding to your old favourite about squad rotation. Maybe you should follow your own advice to the Bignot thread poster, and just say what you've got to say. Do you think Hurst should be making some changes for the weekend game or not?

No, there's no need to be snappy (I don't get the point about codger). I read your posts, but I've re-read the one in question and I cant decipher it. If you're big enough to take a bit of feedback, I think your views would get a better hearing if they were more succinct.

Sorry chaos I can't decipher your post.
what are you actually saying ? It makes no sense...
Maybe you should should just say what you've got to say and just spit it out.  
Don't be a poor sport.
I think your views would get a better hearing if they were more succinct.
No need to be snappy !
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Quoted from chaos33

Is that what you want - to be ignored?

If you can't "decipher" or stop complaining while you just keep on reading away, YES !

Specfic questions always welcome...

What would I do Saturday ?
Tricky one tbh.
Ok I'll go Bignot in.
Still think we'll win if Hurst keeps it the same though.

You ?
Don't bother, think I already know !
"never change a winning team"

"Not necessarily..."  
Lol what a suprise, whatever !

Quoted from chaos33

I think your views would get a better hearing if they were more succinct.

Yes I'm sure you and the rest of the misery super 6 would love nothing more !
Right at the top of your priority list no doubt.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

If we don't moan because we've won, folk still have a go.

Some sympathy for that view tbh.
Then again, a lot who were moaning aren't too quick to congratulate or say they were wrong to complain either.
Just my impression but maybe that's the point ?

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Yeah, but it'd be a bit daft forking out £37 then never listening. Not a great marketing strategy.

Hang on you're right...
HURST !
You better shape up and be more gung-ho positive on camera mate.
Kingston was forced at gunpoint into paying his £37 for MP expecting you to do somersaults and now isn't happy...

Oh dear. You've lost face quite badly there too, as usual. Will you ever learn?

I'm sure I may never recover chaos !  :o
Any more personal digs or is that your full quota tonight ?

There are no presonal digs. I merely challeneged you with a view and some honest feedback, and, as usual, you lapsed into childish nonsense (repeating my points like an infant mimicing an adult, and 'the negative super six'?? ) a load of quotes and some repetition.

Yes I notice you've challenged a lot of people tonight.

Despite all your questions who should be in or out, notice you didn't even bother with "Team for Aldershot".
Maybe you just couldn't "decipher" where it was !  ??)

Oh now you've given me a negative reputation mark - I may never recover !  :o

Quoted from 120797

Yes I notice you've challenged a lot of people tonight.

Despite all your questions who should be in or out, notice you didn't even bother with "Team for Aldershot".
Maybe you just couldn't "decipher" where it was !  ??)

I haven't asked questions on who should be in or out of the team other than inviting you to name your starting line-up as I know you like your rotation concept. As a general rule I don't bother with the 'score line prediction' threads or the 'team for...' topics either but since you ask so persistently and eloquently for my view I would probably leave the team unchanged for this game and would predict a draw.

There you are. Short, even handed, to the point, and without endlessly ramming it down the throats of others, with no need for 12 isolated quotations or 8000 words.

Quoted from chaos33

I would probably leave the team unchanged for this game

There it is again !  ??)

IMO you're a fence sitter who dishes out the criticism and questions but is rarely prepared to answer them yourself.

FFS I wouldn't change the team on Saturday unless someone was injured or ill!

At last !

No need to be "snappy" chaos.
I merely asked for your view blah blah  ;)

80's, you said in a thread the other day that your work was done and you were retiring back into the shadows, or some such balderdash, but here you still are, ruining the flow of every thread you post in.

Yeah, i know, i don't have to read it and frankly i don't but when you quote everyone ad infinitum and engage in petty childish backbiting, it takes over the whole thread, rendering it unreadable.

Quoted from ginnywings

80's, you said in a thread the other day that your work was done and you were retiring back into the shadows, or some such balderdash, but here you still are, ruining the flow of every thread you post in.

Yeah, i know, i don't have to read it and frankly i don't but when you quote everyone ad infinitum and engage in petty childish backbiting, it takes over the whole thread, rendering it unreadable.

Ginny, don't you realise that the man's a genuis and the intellectual level of the board has been lifted by his return. The way he dissects people's comments and puts everyone right with his wisdom is breathtaking! He is the Stephen Hawkings of the Fishy!!

[quote=120797]Well mate, if you can't follow it or don't like it..
Maybe best thing is not to read it in the first place !


Amen to that----oops just have done ;D