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Posted by: BIGChris, September 9, 2010, 8:44am
Company accounts show Town made a huge operating loss of nearly £600k in the last financial year but this was largely offset by player sales (Bennett + Barlow)
Posted by: dapperz fun pub, September 9, 2010, 8:53am; Reply: 1
it doesnt read good,a trip to wembley and promotion needed
Posted by: gary_elton, September 9, 2010, 9:00am; Reply: 2
a smart run in the FA Cup would be nice too.....
Posted by: arryarryarry, September 9, 2010, 9:06am; Reply: 3
Quoted from gary_elton
a smart run in the FA Cup would be nice too.....



To get to the first round would be nice.
Posted by: STB, September 9, 2010, 9:10am; Reply: 4
So in reality, my 6 year old lad's team is 600K better off than town and they are more entertaining to watch.
Fenty should just give up now and get a fish round.  ;D
Posted by: gary_elton, September 9, 2010, 10:01am; Reply: 5
Quoted from arryarryarry



To get to the first round would be nice.


If we get to round 1....Lincoln away please Mr. FA Cup man... oh yes.......  ;)
Posted by: pier39, September 9, 2010, 10:06am; Reply: 6
Quoted from STB
So in reality, my 6 year old lad's team is 600K better off than town and they are more entertaining to watch.
Fenty should just give up now and get a fish round.  ;D


honest jon fenty (condem) says our debts are benign and arent really debts,and anyway hed fook a fish round up
Posted by: BIGChris, September 9, 2010, 11:15am; Reply: 7
Someone, I cannot recall who, posted recently about Mike Parker already being at loggerheads with John Fenty.

Following the receipt of the clubs accounts and the accompanying notices and letters it would appear that couldnt be further from the truth.

Mr Parker has invested £500k into the club. Both MP & JF have reached an agreement to 'equalise their shareholdings so the 'burden' is shared equally going forward. Mike's investment will be converted into shares and Fenty will convert £242K of his existing loans into shares.

JF's partners shares will also be transfered to JF himself.

Ordinarily their combined shareholding would mean they have to make an offer for the other issued shares  but are asking for a special resolution to be passed at the forthcoming AGM for this NOT to be required.

In the accounts themselves the operating loss was £586,555 but there was a significant profit on player sales of £556,675 meaning the overall loss was a little under £30k.

The accumulated losses carried forward now total £2.6m and the company is only really viable due to the support of the two Senior board members!

Other points that may be of interest is that wage costs for ALL staff were £2.247m, we received £604k from television and broadcasting ( i guess this will be very significantly down this year), loans from directors are £2.39m. We owe Sky TV £33,500 for something (probably a previous loan?)

The AGM is 30th Sept at 10am
Posted by: Alfie, September 9, 2010, 11:44am; Reply: 8
Keep up the good work, John.
Posted by: Roast Em Bobby, September 9, 2010, 11:47am; Reply: 9
anyone got a link to the actual accounts?
Posted by: Lumpsleftbreast, September 9, 2010, 11:48am; Reply: 10
I bet we owe sky that money from Beagries hotel bills ;D

Shocking reading though.Can see why the club rushed the Bennett deal through.
Posted by: TWAreaTownSupporter, September 9, 2010, 11:48am; Reply: 11
On the positive side net current liabilities are massively down (mostly due to increase in debtors - Posh owing us money I guess).

We seem to have remarkably consistent matchday receipts over last 4 years (around £830k) with the exception of 08 when we went to Wembley. Commercial revenue has taken a bit of a battering on the catering front over the 4 years. We seem to have a "structural deficit" of £1/2m p.a. so really we ought to lose 6-10 players off the books (or equivalent in wage cuts) if we don't get promotion this season. The alternative is Mr Fenty and Mr Parker will have season tickets that cost them £1/4m each per year.
Posted by: Denby, September 9, 2010, 11:49am; Reply: 12
Quoted from Alfie
Keep up the good work, John.


i hope that's sarcasm
Posted by: Alfie, September 9, 2010, 11:51am; Reply: 13
Quoted from Denby


i hope that's sarcasm


What? Other than two successive £500K+ losses and a relegation out of the Football League, he's doing a fine job.
Posted by: Alfie, September 9, 2010, 11:51am; Reply: 14
Quoted from Roast Em Bobby
anyone got a link to the actual accounts?


http://extra-gtfc.co.uk/accounts2/
Posted by: psgmariner, September 9, 2010, 12:06pm; Reply: 15
Does Furneaux seriously only have £500 worth of shares or am I being thick?
Posted by: Lord Sommet, September 9, 2010, 12:28pm; Reply: 16
He does.

20 Shares @ £25 each
Posted by: 935 (Guest), September 9, 2010, 12:46pm; Reply: 17
Do any of you guys insulting Fenty actually possess more than two brain cells.

1. There are 4 Clubs in the WORLD that make any profit.
2. It costs somewhere in the region of £750,000 to run a football club on an annual basis.
3. Gate reciepts alone will not cover that

Owning a football club is seen by most as infact a lobour of Love. As the company is Limited by Shares you may in fact discover that Fenty pays the losses- IE HE FUNDS YOUR FOOTBALL CLUB
Posted by: Helgy, September 9, 2010, 12:47pm; Reply: 18
I might be able to offer some help , i run the 12th man LCFC and we use the Easy Fund Raiser to raise money for our club.
I have signed up Lincoln's MP the club have adopted the EFR on their site and we have just handed over our first cheque to the club.
For every internet purchase you get a donation for example car insurance with Direct line gives a £35 donation ,home insurance £45 donation, a Tesco's grocery shop gets you £2.50.
It has 2000 retailers signed up and is easy to administer.

here's the link.

http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/the12thman/

If you do take this and it is a great way to earn free money pm me and i'll run you by some more info that you need.
Posted by: BIGChris, September 9, 2010, 12:54pm; Reply: 19
I thought GTFC ran some sort of similar website to the one Helgy is describing?
Posted by: Paddymariner, September 9, 2010, 1:11pm; Reply: 20
Quoted from 935
Do any of you guys insulting Fenty actually possess more than two brain cells.

1. There are 4 Clubs in the WORLD that make any profit.
2. It costs somewhere in the region of £750,000 to run a football club on an annual basis.
3. Gate reciepts alone will not cover that

Owning a football club is seen by most as infact a lobour of Love. As the company is Limited by Shares you may in fact discover that Fenty pays the losses- IE HE FUNDS YOUR FOOTBALL CLUB


In return for his loans, Fenty has a fixed and floating debenture. The value of his loans is very similar to the value of Blundell Park. Does this mean that he will not put any further funds in?
Posted by: mardy fish, September 9, 2010, 1:17pm; Reply: 21
Quoted from 935
2. It costs somewhere in the region of £750,000 to run a football club on an annual basis.

Citation required.
Posted by: gtfc98, September 9, 2010, 1:29pm; Reply: 22
Quoted from psgmariner
Does Furneaux seriously only have £500 worth of shares or am I being thick?


How about a fishy contribution to buy his shares and get that leech away from our club.

£20quid from me.
Posted by: The Old Codger, September 9, 2010, 1:31pm; Reply: 23
Pensions seem to be still £170k a year?????????
Posted by: Lord Sommet, September 9, 2010, 1:33pm; Reply: 24
Quoted from BIGChris
I thought GTFC ran some sort of similar website to the one Helgy is describing?


They do.

Posted by: Lord Sommet, September 9, 2010, 1:33pm; Reply: 25
Quoted from gtfc98


How about a fishy contribution to buy his shares and get that leech away from our club.

£20quid from me.


Seconded.
Posted by: theicenian, September 9, 2010, 1:36pm; Reply: 26
Quoted from psgmariner
Does Furneaux seriously only have £500 worth of shares or am I being thick?



I've said it before and I'll say it again now, the best post-war chairman we have had only held 10 quids worth of shares.

The amount of shares held is not an indicator of whether you can be a board member or not. It is however a usual requirement that boardmembers hold at least a minimum amount.

Posted by: Aryan_imp, September 9, 2010, 1:38pm; Reply: 27
Quoted from gary_elton


If we get to round 1....Lincoln away please Mr. FA Cup man... oh yes.......  ;)


;D

Posted by: psgmariner, September 9, 2010, 1:40pm; Reply: 28
Quoted from theicenian



I've said it before and I'll say it again now, the best post-war chairman we have had only held 10 quids worth of shares.

The amount of shares held is not an indicator of whether you can be a board member or not. It is however a usual requirement that boardmembers hold at least a minimum amount.



It's cheaper than a season ticket I suppose. Can't fault his business acumen.
Posted by: theicenian, September 9, 2010, 1:42pm; Reply: 29
Quoted from theicenian



I've said it before and I'll say it again now, the best post-war chairman we have had only held 10 quids worth of shares.

The amount of shares held is not an indicator of whether you can be a board member or not. It is however a usual requirement that boardmembers hold at least a minimum amount.



By the way I don't equate Mr.Furneeaux with the best chairman as I have no clue what he contributes to the board. Only he and the board will know this.

Posted by: JazzMariner, September 9, 2010, 1:43pm; Reply: 30
Quoted from gtfc98


How about a fishy contribution to buy his shares and get that leech away from our club.

£20quid from me.
Isn't he a life president? So not possible until he passes away!

Posted by: Paddymariner, September 9, 2010, 1:49pm; Reply: 31
Quoted from theicenian


By the way I don't equate Mr.Furneeaux with the best chairman as I have no clue what he contributes to the board. Only he and the board will know this.



Oh! Thought you were talking about Fenty.
Posted by: theicenian, September 9, 2010, 1:50pm; Reply: 32
Quoted from JazzMariner
Isn't he a life president? So not possible until he passes away!



Nope, the only Life President we have is Dudley Ramsden.

Posted by: theicenian, September 9, 2010, 1:51pm; Reply: 33
Quoted from Paddymariner


Oh! Thought you were talking about Fenty.



Nope,   Paddy Hamilton.

Posted by: gtfc98, September 9, 2010, 1:51pm; Reply: 34
I wonder if Furneaux pays for his attendance at matches, and travel to away games. Would be interesting to see how much the average town fan spends a year on following the mariners (tickets, hotels, fuel, trains etc) and compare it to his poxy £500 he holds in shares.
Posted by: Denby, September 9, 2010, 1:54pm; Reply: 35
the wage bill stands at around £1.8m (!!!) compared to around £1.3m in 04/05.  fenty started off with a sensible and affordable budget but has allowed this to spiral out of control.  our operating loss has been around £600k for the last 2 seasons (ignoring player sales), this could of* been wiped out by keeping our the wage bill at a sensible level

fenty is funding (providing loans) for his own financial idiocy
Posted by: Biccys, September 9, 2010, 1:57pm; Reply: 36
This is quite worrying. How many times have we bemoaned Pompey, Rovrum, Ballmouth etc because of their overspending..... It would appear we're doing it but taking money from Fionas inheritance, not local businesses...
Posted by: Paddymariner, September 9, 2010, 1:57pm; Reply: 37
Quoted from theicenian



Nope,   Paddy Hamilton.



Yeah, I knew that really.

Posted by: Maringer, September 9, 2010, 2:03pm; Reply: 38
Regarding the wage bill this season, let's not forget how many shite players signed (or re-signed) by Newell have had their contracts paid up either partially or in full over the course of the past 12 months to get rid of them.

Hopefully, we won't see a similar situation with the current bunch and the wage bill will be a lot less this season.

At least, you'd have to hope that this was the case.
Posted by: 935 (Guest), September 9, 2010, 2:05pm; Reply: 39
Quoted from Denby
the wage bill stands at around £1.8m (!!!) compared to around £1.3m in 04/05.  fenty started off with a sensible and affordable budget but has allowed this to spiral out of control.  our operating loss has been around £600k for the last 2 seasons (ignoring player sales), this could of* been wiped out by keeping our the wage bill at a sensible level

fenty is funding (providing loans) for his own financial idiocy



THE ONLY FINANCIAL IDIOT HERE IS YOU. THERE IS THIS THING YOU SEE, CALLED INFLATION, AND THE WAY INFLATION WORKS IS IT MEANS THAT OVER TIME PRICES FOR GOODS AND SERVICES RISE, SO FIVE YEARS AGO THE COST OF 20 FAGS BY WAY OF AN EXAMPLE WAS 4 POUNDS, THEY NOW COST 6 POUNDS, WAGES RESPOND TO THIS.
Posted by: JazzMariner, September 9, 2010, 2:10pm; Reply: 40
Quoted from theicenian


Nope, the only Life President we have is Dudley Ramsden.


I thought he had a Life something!!
Posted by: costa del cleethorpes, September 9, 2010, 2:10pm; Reply: 41
Quoted from 935



THE ONLY FINANCIAL IDIOT HERE IS YOU. THERE IS THIS THING YOU SEE, CALLED INFLATION, AND THE WAY INFLATION WORKS IS IT MEANS THAT OVER TIME PRICES FOR GOODS AND SERVICES RISE, SO FIVE YEARS AGO THE COST OF 20 FAGS BY WAY OF AN EXAMPLE WAS 4 POUNDS, THEY NOW COST 6 POUNDS, WAGES RESPOND TO THIS.


morecombe,macclesfield,accy stan and others operate on small budgets and consistently do better than us,thats the real issue
Posted by: theicenian, September 9, 2010, 2:11pm; Reply: 42
Quoted from Biccys
This is quite worrying. How many times have we bemoaned Pompey, Rovrum, Ballmouth etc because of their overspending..... It would appear we're doing it but taking money from Fionas inheritance, not local businesses...



I think you need to worry less.     Whilst Messrs Fenty and Parker are funding the club then we will still exist,the worry would be if they stopped doing it then without their money we would struggle to fund a team in Blue Square North nevermind where we are now. This does not constitute a defense of some of the bad decisions that have been taken over the last few years.  However with Mr.Parker's influence I think things should gradually improve.

You only become a Rovrum when the money dries up and whilst those two stick to it we won't.

Posted by: JazzMariner, September 9, 2010, 2:13pm; Reply: 43


morecombe,macclesfield,accy stan and others operate on small budgets and consistently do better than us,thats the real issue

Errr consistently!!! Over the last 2 or 3 seasons maybe but not historically.  :-/
Posted by: theicenian, September 9, 2010, 2:13pm; Reply: 44
Quoted from JazzMariner

I thought he had a Life something!!



According to some on here Life mentioned in the same sentence as you know who is an oxymoron. ;)

Posted by: 935 (Guest), September 9, 2010, 2:15pm; Reply: 45


morecombe,macclesfield,accy stan and others operate on small budgets and consistently do better than us,thats the real issue


Could you tell us all the operating budgets of those clubs? do you know for a fact that they make more/less than we do??

I hate all this Fenty bashing. The guy bankrolls our beloved footie club, yup he makes some decisions which are criticised but he rarely fails to get behind his manager by putting his hand in his pocket. We couldnt do without him, cos like it or not there really arent that many people mad enough to lose a few million on a football club when they get no thanks whatsoever from people who wouldnt understand how to operate a business if it bit them in the face
Posted by: TWAreaTownSupporter, September 9, 2010, 2:19pm; Reply: 46
Quoted from 935



THE ONLY FINANCIAL IDIOT HERE IS YOU. THERE IS THIS THING YOU SEE, CALLED INFLATION, AND THE WAY INFLATION WORKS IS IT MEANS THAT OVER TIME PRICES FOR GOODS AND SERVICES RISE, SO FIVE YEARS AGO THE COST OF 20 FAGS BY WAY OF AN EXAMPLE WAS 4 POUNDS, THEY NOW COST 6 POUNDS, WAGES RESPOND TO THIS.


You must be very lucky. I doubt most people's pay has gone up by nearly 40% in that time period. Most has probably stayed still for the last 2 years.

Posted by: theicenian, September 9, 2010, 2:21pm; Reply: 47


morecombe,macclesfield,accy stan and others operate on small budgets and consistently do better than us,thats the real issue



That is a issue which is attributable to the managers and ultimately the board isn't it.    The Buckley, crazy Newell period saw us move 45 players through the club last season.

If you then look at the way things have settled now perhaps things will be a little less expensive in the next year or two.

Posted by: TWAreaTownSupporter, September 9, 2010, 2:23pm; Reply: 48
Quoted from 935


2. It costs somewhere in the region of £750,000 to run a football club on an annual basis.
3. Gate reciepts alone will not cover that


To be picky, strictly speaking ours do. They've been around the £830k mark for 4 years (excepting the Wembley boost)
Obviously doesn't leave much of a playing budget!
Posted by: TWAreaTownSupporter, September 9, 2010, 2:27pm; Reply: 49
Quoted from Helgy
I might be able to offer some help , i run the 12th man LCFC and we use the Easy Fund Raiser to raise money for our club.
I have signed up Lincoln's MP the club have adopted the EFR on their site and we have just handed over our first cheque to the club.
For every internet purchase you get a donation for example car insurance with Direct line gives a £35 donation ,home insurance £45 donation, a Tesco's grocery shop gets you £2.50.
It has 2000 retailers signed up and is easy to administer.

here's the link.

http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/the12thman/

If you do take this and it is a great way to earn free money pm me and i'll run you by some more info that you need.


The GTST have been running this type of scheme for years. Always order my mum flowers through this site.

http://buy.at/gtst

Posted by: 935 (Guest), September 9, 2010, 2:32pm; Reply: 50


You must be very lucky. I doubt most people's pay has gone up by nearly 40% in that time period. Most has probably stayed still for the last 2 years.



Firstly the time period i was discussing was 5 years and in that time even minimum wage has gone up 20% so would be massively suprised if no-ones pay has responded to that... its simple economics
Posted by: pier39, September 9, 2010, 2:46pm; Reply: 51
Quoted from 935


Could you tell us all the operating budgets of those clubs? do you know for a fact that they make more/less than we do??

I hate all this Fenty bashing. The guy bankrolls our beloved footie club, yup he makes some decisions which are criticised but he rarely fails to get behind his manager by putting his hand in his pocket. We couldnt do without him, cos like it or not there really arent that many people mad enough to lose a few million on a football club when they get no thanks whatsoever from people who wouldnt understand how to operate a business if it bit them in the face


whatever people agree or disagree on we are man utd compared to those 3 in financial terms and has for thanking fenty,no thanks hes the main culprit in all this we where crap before newell arrived
Posted by: The Old Codger, September 9, 2010, 3:05pm; Reply: 52


To be picky, strictly speaking ours do. They've been around the £830k mark for 4 years (excepting the Wembley boost)
Obviously doesn't leave much of a playing budget!


Especially when £170k is taken out for pensions a year.....
Posted by: TWAreaTownSupporter, September 9, 2010, 3:21pm; Reply: 53
Quoted from 935


Firstly the time period i was discussing was 5 years and in that time even minimum wage has gone up 20% so would be massively suprised if no-ones pay has responded to that... its simple economics


NMW was widely acknowledged as having invcreased faster than average pay inflation. At least 2 of those 5 years saw pay inflation reduce to barely a flicker (only kept alive by public sector pay) and have been below general inflation (and will be again this year). Unemployment rose. Part-time working increased. Reduced working weeks (with pay pro rata). The country was in recession from late 2008 to this year. Even in the boom years pay was kept in check with massive immigration.

There is no way on God's Earth that UK pay inflation was 40% over those 5 years. We haven't seen that sort of level for 30 years. I repeat, if you have had a 40% pay increase over 5 years for the same job, you are very lucky.

Simple economics. I assume you are a banker.

Posted by: moosey_club, September 9, 2010, 3:48pm; Reply: 54
Dont think there are any great suprises with the figures are there? The chairman has been praying for a cup run/wembley appearance for long enough to help balance the books out.
As i have said previously and others on here we are similar to pompey, rotherham etc etc in the fact we live beyond our means, turnover means that is but are fortunate that we have a chairman and director who pay the right bills first to avoid winding up orders.
A club 3 or 4 times in debt over its income is not in good health even if that debt is into two directors loans.
Every passing season just mounts the debt like an unpaid credit card, i appreciate both parties have stated the loans are benign but even if they are how much longer will they both support the club so unconditionally?
Next years figures will drop even further at current attendance levels so a big club away in fa cup rd 3, the final of the vase/trophy and play off final may all be required to get income up to maybe just break even.. :o
Posted by: Helgy, September 9, 2010, 4:03pm; Reply: 55


The GTST have been running this type of scheme for years. Always order my mum flowers through this site.

http://buy.at/gtst



This one has every retailer and it runs along side what else we do.

Posted by: arryarryarry, September 9, 2010, 4:14pm; Reply: 56
Quoted from 935



THE ONLY FINANCIAL IDIOT HERE IS YOU. THERE IS THIS THING YOU SEE, CALLED INFLATION, AND THE WAY INFLATION WORKS IS IT MEANS THAT OVER TIME PRICES FOR GOODS AND SERVICES RISE, SO FIVE YEARS AGO THE COST OF 20 FAGS BY WAY OF AN EXAMPLE WAS 4 POUNDS, THEY NOW COST 6 POUNDS, WAGES RESPOND TO THIS.


No need to shout, anyway as regards wages and inflation, my wages haven't seen an increase in over two years.
Posted by: Denby, September 9, 2010, 4:53pm; Reply: 57
Quoted from 935

THE ONLY FINANCIAL IDIOT HERE IS YOU. THERE IS THIS THING YOU SEE, CALLED INFLATION, AND THE WAY INFLATION WORKS IS IT MEANS THAT OVER TIME PRICES FOR GOODS AND SERVICES RISE, SO FIVE YEARS AGO THE COST OF 20 FAGS BY WAY OF AN EXAMPLE WAS 4 POUNDS, THEY NOW COST 6 POUNDS, WAGES RESPOND TO THIS.


i can see i'm really out of my depth here so i'd better stay quiet
Posted by: Lord Sommet, September 9, 2010, 5:00pm; Reply: 58
Three questions I asked Fenty earlier today:

1.What are the club doing to minimize costs given we are continuing to lose on average 500k a year?

With football fortune, we will not lose as much and could make a profit particularly if we were successful in a cup run. We have projected 6 to £700 thousand pounds loss for the coming season. But of course the danger this could get worse if we don’t meet budget because of personnel changes and fitness.

2. When Mike Parker was appointed was it not you who stated Mr. Fernaux was to stand down, yet in the accounts he is to stand for re-election?

I have never related PF position as a director of the club with Mike Parkers appointment. I have previously said that if there is someone out there who can help the club and Peter and or myself stands in the way then this would be considered.

3. What would happen/what securities are in place if the bank loan was to be recalled given we are in financial mess?

The Bank is asking for our overdraft to be replaced by a repayment schedule something we are resisting; I suspect the Bank will achieve this in part. They are fully secured by a 200k personal guarantee from me and the rest on Blundell Park. Do not like it, but that’s the banking world right now hence this is alluded to in the accounts.
As you know, Mike and I are converting loans into share capital or at least proposing to do that which will strengthen the balance sheet.
You say ‘mess’ but we have not committed the club to funding exposure that we will not stand by, we are proud that this club has never been into administration.


Posted by: theicenian, September 9, 2010, 5:01pm; Reply: 59
Quoted from Denby


i can see i'm really out of my depth here so i'd better stay quiet



Unlike you to be intimidated Denby.


And I must be buying smuggled fags cos the ones I buy aren't 6 quid a packet.

And wages aren't keeping up with inflation which is why we can say we are still in recession isn't it or am I thick too.

Posted by: Denby, September 9, 2010, 5:14pm; Reply: 60
i'd leave it to the experts icey, experts like paddythebadger.  he writes in capitals and everything
Posted by: arryarryarry, September 9, 2010, 5:28pm; Reply: 61
[quote=935]

Firstly the time period i was discussing was 5 years and in that time even minimum wage has gone up 20% so would be massively suprised if no-ones pay has responded to that... its simple economics


Trouble is it isn't, just to confirm, I have not had a wage increase since April 2008 and the three or four years prior to that the increase was around 2%, lower than inflation at the time, so perhaps you could put my bosses straight.
Posted by: Civvy at last, September 9, 2010, 5:38pm; Reply: 62


NMW was widely acknowledged as having invcreased faster than average pay inflation. At least 2 of those 5 years saw pay inflation reduce to barely a flicker (only kept alive by public sector pay) and have been below general inflation (and will be again this year). Unemployment rose. Part-time working increased. Reduced working weeks (with pay pro rata). The country was in recession from late 2008 to this year. Even in the boom years pay was kept in check with massive immigration.

There is no way on God's Earth that UK pay inflation was 40% over those 5 years. We haven't seen that sort of level for 30 years. I repeat, if you have had a 40% pay increase over 5 years for the same job, you are very lucky.

Simple economics. I assume you are a banker.



Rhyming slang ?  ;)
Posted by: kingofthekippers, September 9, 2010, 6:11pm; Reply: 63
I know it's only a rough guide but general inflation between 2004 and 2009 has been 2.7% per year, a cumulative total in that period of 14.4%. Of course that is according to the Bank of England. What do they know of such matters?
Posted by: Swansea_Mariner, September 9, 2010, 7:06pm; Reply: 64
Quoted from 935


Could you tell us all the operating budgets of those clubs? do you know for a fact that they make more/less than we do??

I hate all this Fenty bashing. The guy bankrolls our beloved footie club, yup he makes some decisions which are criticised but he rarely fails to get behind his manager by putting his hand in his pocket. We couldnt do without him, cos like it or not there really arent that many people mad enough to lose a few million on a football club when they get no thanks whatsoever from people who wouldnt understand how to operate a business if it bit them in the face


This really is the big issue, you have to feel massively sorry for Fenty as he certainly backs managers in terms of playing budgets and he must take it very personally to see much smaller (financially smaller) clubs performing consistently better than us at higher levels.

If only he could get value for his investment then we'd certainly be a decent league one team.  Instead he's very unlucky almost stupendously unlucky - and I say unlucky rather than foolish because he's tried every angle apart from the foreign route, big name - Newell, non league manager - Slade, vastly experienced - Buckley, promote from within - Groves & Rodger, experienced coach - Woods.  
Posted by: dapperz fun pub, September 9, 2010, 7:26pm; Reply: 65
Quoted from Swansea_Mariner


This really is the big issue, you have to feel massively sorry for Fenty as he certainly backs managers in terms of playing budgets and he must take it very personally to see much smaller (financially smaller) clubs performing consistently better than us at higher levels.

If only he could get value for his investment then we'd certainly be a decent league one team.  Instead he's very unlucky almost stupendously unlucky - and I say unlucky rather than foolish because he's tried every angle apart from the foreign route, big name - Newell, non league manager - Slade, vastly experienced - Buckley, promote from within - Groves & Rodger, experienced coach - Woods.  


good post all but for the last bit,experienced with kids maybe
Posted by: kingofthekippers, September 9, 2010, 7:38pm; Reply: 66
Quoted from dapperz fun pub


good post all but for the last bit,experienced with kids maybe


Beg pardon?
Posted by: Abdul19, September 9, 2010, 7:42pm; Reply: 67
Quoted from 935
1. There are 4 Clubs in the WORLD that make any profit.


I've just read on SSN that Hibs made a profit last year. Were they in your list of 4?
Posted by: 935 (Guest), September 9, 2010, 7:57pm; Reply: 68
Quoted from pier39


whatever people agree or disagree on we are man utd compared to those 3 in financial terms and has for thanking fenty,no thanks hes the main culprit in all this we where crap before newell arrived


can you prove what you re saying??????
Posted by: 97 (Guest), September 9, 2010, 8:24pm; Reply: 69
Quoted from pier39


honest jon fenty (condem) says our debts are benign and arent really debts,and anyway hed fook a fish round up


If Fenty was a doctor and used the word benign, I wouldn't be buying any green bananas.
Posted by: hertfordshire mariner, September 9, 2010, 10:10pm; Reply: 70
Quoted from JazzMariner

I thought he had a Life something!!


support machine?
Posted by: 935 (Guest), September 9, 2010, 10:18pm; Reply: 71
Quoted from arryarryarry
[quote=935]

Firstly the time period i was discussing was 5 years and in that time even minimum wage has gone up 20% so would be massively suprised if no-ones pay has responded to that... its simple economics


Trouble is it isn't, just to confirm, I have not had a wage increase since April 2008 and the three or four years prior to that the increase was around 2%, lower than inflation at the time, so perhaps you could put my bosses straight.


we re talking about football and the football industry! its massively different to any other industry.. and if you havent had a wage increase in two years you should probably work a bit harder!
Posted by: Civvy at last, September 9, 2010, 10:33pm; Reply: 72
Is there any mention of the money we got from Scunts for "Jones", or has that been swallowed up as well ?
Posted by: Civvy at last, September 9, 2010, 10:35pm; Reply: 73
Quoted from 935


we re talking about football and the football industry! its massively different to any other industry.. and if you havent had a wage increase in two years you should probably work a bit harder!


Absolute bollox
Posted by: kingofthekippers, September 9, 2010, 10:55pm; Reply: 74
Quoted from 935


we re talking about football and the football industry! its massively different to any other industry.. and if you havent had a wage increase in two years you should probably work a bit harder!


What was your last pay increase?
Posted by: TWAreaTownSupporter, September 9, 2010, 10:57pm; Reply: 75
Quoted from Civvy at last



Rhyming slang ?  ;)


You might think that, but I couldn't possibly comment.  ;)

Actually, yes, having just read his comment about working harder.  Was originally meant as a comment on his lack of touch with economic realities but it struck me afterwards just how apt it was.
Posted by: arryarryarry, September 9, 2010, 10:57pm; Reply: 76
Quoted from 935


we re talking about football and the football industry! its massively different to any other industry.. and if you havent had a wage increase in two years you should probably work a bit harder!


So inflation and the minimum wage that YOU brought up only applies to football.I should stop there because you are seriously making yourself look like a right brainless male private.

As for working harder, you obviously havent heard of the recession and to help my company out, not only missing out on salary increases I and many of my colleagues have taken a further "cut" by having an extra weeks unpaid leave.

Posted by: kingofthekippers, September 9, 2010, 11:04pm; Reply: 77
Quoted from arryarryarry


So inflation and the minimum wage that YOU brought up only applies to football.I should stop there because you are seriously making yourself look like a right brainless male private.

As for working harder, you obviously havent heard of the recession and to help my company out, not only missing out on salary increases I and many of my colleagues have taken a further "cut" by having an extra weeks unpaid leave.



I consider myself very lucky in that for the last two years I have received pay rises (albeit 1%); I won't include the increase in unpaid overtime that I have 'voluntarily' agreed to. I know of very hard-working people who've been asked to take a 10% pay cut or increase their basic hours for no extra pay. Whilst I am inclined to believe the recession is an excuse for some employers to take advantage, it shows what a hard world there is out there.

Paddythebadger: Your glib comment shows you to be a cretin.
Posted by: louth_in_the_south, September 10, 2010, 12:48am; Reply: 78
Every year when towns accounts come out we get the same boring sh ite . We're always going to make a loss unless we put about another 5000 on the gate every week , and always rely on a generous benefactor to keep us going - much like the majority of football clubs in this country . How many prem teams make a profit and they get all the sky money ? What do we get ? Premier Sports Tv ?! Fair play to fenty and parker - they keep our club going at the end of the day . One day id like to be in their position cos i know i would do the same . Fenty has f ucked up by appointing that member newell , but how many of us wouldve done the same at the time ? I know i was happy when he got the job . Its very easy to knock someone when its not your time or money .
And as for this inflation , wages argument ... look at the premiership wages , theyve never stopped going up at massive national inflation levels when all us mug sky subcriber wages have in effect gone down
Posted by: Denby, September 10, 2010, 9:31am; Reply: 79
Quoted from louth_in_the_south
We're always going to make a loss unless we put about another 5000 on the gate every week


facts like these are really difficult to argue against  :-/
Posted by: Spiritater, September 10, 2010, 9:31am; Reply: 80
Boys you need to get out of this league sharpish......the parachute payments will dry up the funding will dry up,the support will slowly diminish and unless you have a wealthy sugar daddy like Creepy you will be just like us (MTFC)  in 3 years time ie 'in the pooh' :( Good luck
Posted by: Paddymariner, September 10, 2010, 9:33am; Reply: 81
Quoted from Denby


facts like these are really difficult to argue against  :-/


Stay quiet Denby, you know that you're way out of your depth here. Stupid boy!  ;)
Posted by: Denby, September 10, 2010, 9:36am; Reply: 82
Quoted from Paddymariner
Stay quiet Denby, you know that you're way out of your depth here. Stupid boy!  ;)


oops, right, i'm off.  there are some real economic boffins on here
Posted by: gingervalentino, September 10, 2010, 10:27am; Reply: 83
I am not a financial boffin. All i care about is that I have my beloved football club and that we are winning games :) Forget all this financial mumbo jumbo, enjoy watching football and let all the finances get sorted out by the people whose job it is
Posted by: carrot top, September 10, 2010, 10:32am; Reply: 84
Quoted from 935



THE ONLY FINANCIAL IDIOT HERE IS YOU. THERE IS THIS THING YOU SEE, CALLED INFLATION, AND THE WAY INFLATION WORKS IS IT MEANS THAT OVER TIME PRICES FOR GOODS AND SERVICES RISE, SO FIVE YEARS AGO THE COST OF 20 FAGS BY WAY OF AN EXAMPLE WAS 4 POUNDS, THEY NOW COST 6 POUNDS, WAGES RESPOND TO THIS.


PTB, you should check your figures before posting a statement like this.
Inflation over the last 5 years in the UK has averaged 2.8%, which would mean if wages at the club went up in line with inflation from £1.3M they would now be £1.5m. Football is a strange business and inflation has very little to do with wages within it.
As for telling people to work harder, it is you that is the financial idiot.
Posted by: moosey_club, September 10, 2010, 11:30am; Reply: 85
Quoted from Lord Sommet
Three questions I asked Fenty earlier today:

1.What are the club doing to minimize costs given we are continuing to lose on average 500k a year?

With football fortune, we will not lose as much and could make a profit particularly if we were successful in a cup run. We have projected 6 to £700 thousand pounds loss for the coming season. But of course the danger this could get worse if we don’t meet budget because of personnel changes and fitness.

3. What would happen/what securities are in place if the bank loan was to be recalled given we are in financial mess?

The Bank is asking for our overdraft to be replaced by a repayment schedule something we are resisting; I suspect the Bank will achieve this in part. They are fully secured by a 200k personal guarantee from me and the rest on Blundell Park. Do not like it, but that’s the banking world right now hence this is alluded to in the accounts.

You say ‘mess’ but we have not committed the club to funding exposure that we will not stand by, we are proud that this club has never been into administration.



Very interesting and in my opinion slightly deluded answers,

his denial to being in a mess does not really stand up just because they have projected a loss, and have said they will cover the debt. John Fenty started the cost cutting at this club several years ago, as he rightly identified there was too much outgoing for survival, has this cost cutting achieved parity in the accounts....would certainly appear not, have these measures stabilised the finances of the club.....would appear not......have these measures improved our on pitch strength and league presence.......no. Have the measures to date enabled us to survive, well we are still here so yes. Did his financial plan for restructuring of the club aim to have us losing 500,000 - 700,000 per season.....well not sure what we were losing prior to his restructuring but it must have been an awful f\/cking lot if the current prediction is an improvement.
The most comical and worrying factor though, considering he is a businessman, is his lack of responce to the first question, what are you doing to minimise the costs of the club with the current year on year losses.......hoping for a cup run!!! FFS. I would have been slightly more reassured if he had said "well i buy a lottery ticket every week, sometimes two when its a rollover"  

While always supporting JF as he has flushed plenty of his own money on Town the last couple of seasons have seen some odd strategies and statements from him. Hopefully Mike Parker can take some of the strain and add another perspective to the financial plans of the club.


Posted by: Southfields_Mariner, September 10, 2010, 12:21pm; Reply: 86
I can't quite believe Fenty is getting stick in here.

Yes, we would like the club to be profitable and better on the pictch and yes he has had a part to play in this, but at the end of the day he is making sizeable financial contributiions to keep the club afloat. He deserves credit for this at least.
Posted by: scrumble, September 10, 2010, 1:25pm; Reply: 87
A review of the comments on this board over the last few months.

"Ticket prices are too high, it's ridiculous for non-league"

"Fenty should spend more money on players"

"Dave Moore as physio is just  a cheap option to save money. Booo"

and now in this thread we have

"We need to make more cuts to make the club financially sound"

So the club needs to reduce its income, throw money at players, but also reduce its expenses. Even Gordon Broon would struggle to blag his way through that.
Posted by: BIGChris, September 10, 2010, 1:44pm; Reply: 88
Quoted from scrumble
A review of the comments on this board over the last few months.

"Ticket prices are too high, it's ridiculous for non-league"

"Fenty should spend more money on players"

"Dave Moore as physio is just  a cheap option to save money. Booo"

and now in this thread we have

"We need to make more cuts to make the club financially sound"

So the club needs to reduce its income, throw money at players, but also reduce its expenses. Even Gordon Broon would struggle to blag his way through that.


Very true!
Posted by: sonik, September 10, 2010, 1:55pm; Reply: 89
Quoted from scrumble
A review of the comments on this board over the last few months.

"Ticket prices are too high, it's ridiculous for non-league"

"Fenty should spend more money on players"

"Dave Moore as physio is just  a cheap option to save money. Booo"

and now in this thread we have

"We need to make more cuts to make the club financially sound"

So the club needs to reduce its income, throw money at players, but also reduce its expenses. Even Gordon Broon would struggle to blag his way through that.


Very very true!   Words fail me at times like this.  I really can't be bothered to reply to most on here lately and read the forum daily.  We have a club to support and hopefully one on the up at last.  By god does John, Mike and others deserve some luck and footballing fortune to help on the way.

Onwards and upwards.  UTM!!
Posted by: Paddymariner, September 10, 2010, 1:58pm; Reply: 90
Quoted from scrumble
A review of the comments on this board over the last few months.

"Ticket prices are too high, it's ridiculous for non-league"

"Fenty should spend more money on players"

"Dave Moore as physio is just  a cheap option to save money. Booo"

and now in this thread we have

"We need to make more cuts to make the club financially sound"

So the club needs to reduce its income, throw money at players, but also reduce its expenses. Even Gordon Broon would struggle to blag his way through that.


Which is why he is unemployed.
Posted by: pier39, September 10, 2010, 2:05pm; Reply: 91
Quoted from sonik


Very very true!   Words fail me at times like this.  I really can't be bothered to reply to most on here lately and read the forum daily.  We have a club to support and hopefully one on the up at last.  By god does John, Mike and others deserve some luck and footballing fortune to help on the way.

Onwards and upwards.  UTM!!


christ i feel soooo sorry for john hes the architect of this mess we find ourselves in,course he props it all up financially but consistent bad decisions by him are costing him a lot of dollar bet he wished hed kept slade or even re employed him
Posted by: BIGChris, September 10, 2010, 2:08pm; Reply: 92
Quoted from pier39


christ i feel soooo sorry for john hes the architect of this mess we find ourselves in,course he props it all up financially but consistent bad decisions by him are costing him a lot of dollar bet he wished hed kept slade or even re employed him


I bet he doesn't!
Posted by: pier39, September 10, 2010, 2:11pm; Reply: 93
Quoted from BIGChris


I bet he doesn't!


we are non league FFS and in the last 3 seasons our win ratio is laughable,do you honestly chris think woods was the right man for the job last season when he couldnt win a match in caretaker charge?
Posted by: moosey_club, September 10, 2010, 2:12pm; Reply: 94
Quoted from scrumble
A review of the comments on this board over the last few months.

"Ticket prices are too high, it's ridiculous for non-league"

"Fenty should spend more money on players"

"Dave Moore as physio is just  a cheap option to save money. Booo"

and now in this thread we have

"We need to make more cuts to make the club financially sound"

So the club needs to reduce its income, throw money at players, but also reduce its expenses. Even Gordon Broon would struggle to blag his way through that.


While i see your point there is a flaw...

JF sets the budgets for the forthcoming season based on a financial model balanced against required achievement.
Predicted income forms the basis of the financial model which is based upon predicted and historical gate receipts, sponsorship, commercial activity etc, so this figure becomes the budget limit to spend, you spend the anticipated income and theoretically if all works out you break even.
Where i believe the mistakes have been made are in the predicted income from gate receipts which have fallen short of the mark. It was within the last couple of seasons while we were in the current downward spiral that JF announced that we needed to average 5000 at home to break even, there was even a telegraph campaign i believe.
Now if we needed 5000 average to break even and were not achieving that then the financial model was flawed, so you are losing money every game you dont hit the predicted average. Add to that the additional over the predicted budget spend come January when we have been strengthening the team with loans, signings etc as the initial budget spend team were boll@cks and looking like relegation then you have further trouble, add to that even lower attendance as performances are poor makes you further out on the predicted model and losing even more money per week and the cherry on top is the offers and promotions to get a crowd in, even less buck per head creating further mis alignment with original.
In a nutshell....set a realistic budget reflecting the actual achievable attendance, do not include football fortune windfall as a maybe, stick to it. It is the only way the club has any chance of managing its way out of debt and becoming self sustaining.
People ask how can Hayes, Histon, Tamworth etc survive on measly gates, the answer could be they cut their cloth accordingly and prudently manage their finances.  
Posted by: theicenian, September 10, 2010, 2:21pm; Reply: 95
Quoted from moosey_club

The most comical and worrying factor though, considering he is a businessman, is his lack of responce to the first question, what are you doing to minimise the costs of the club with the current year on year losses.......hoping for a cup run!!! FFS. I would have been slightly more reassured if he had said "well i buy a lottery ticket every week, sometimes two when its a rollover"  

While always supporting JF as he has flushed plenty of his own money on Town the last couple of seasons have seen some odd strategies and statements from him. Hopefully Mike Parker can take some of the strain and add another perspective to the financial plans of the club.




I would really like to see your alternative business plan.   You should keep in mind as a fan I require cheaper admission and better players on the pitch and naturally I would like to see a premiership type manager and backroom staff please. ;)

Posted by: barralad, September 10, 2010, 2:32pm; Reply: 96
Quoted from moosey_club


People ask how can Hayes, Histon, Tamworth etc survive on measly gates, the answer could be they cut their cloth accordingly and prudently manage their finances.


I'm not really sure I understand all of the financial stuff that has gone into this thread. In fact it makes my brain hurt....

However speaking as a lay person wouldn't it be easier to manage their finances if their expectations are lower than say ours? I don't know much about the others but I simply refuse to believe that Histon have got to where they are simply by managing their finances well. John Beck has recently left them because allegedly the board wouldn't back him with money. As I understand it they had the financial input of a very wealthy benefactor who has now put the brakes on.
I'd guess all three of the teams you quote would be thinking they'd "achieved" merely by staying in the Conference. Much like we were when we were regular features in the Championship (AKA Division 2). We however cannot be happy with anything but a concerted effort to restore our football league status so the potential for risk taking increases because the rewards are potentially greater.
Posted by: Denby, September 10, 2010, 2:35pm; Reply: 97
good post, moosey
Posted by: theicenian, September 10, 2010, 2:43pm; Reply: 98
Quoted from Denby
good post, moosey


How many more times do you need to be told Denby.   You have to keep quite or your on the naughty step for a week. ;D ;D ;D

Posted by: Maringer, September 10, 2010, 2:55pm; Reply: 99
Quoted from Paddymariner
[/b]

Which is why he is unemployed.


Erm, so being an MP doesn't count as a job then? I'm confused.
Posted by: BIGChris, September 10, 2010, 3:03pm; Reply: 100
Quoted from pier39


we are non league FFS and in the last 3 seasons our win ratio is laughable,do you honestly chris think woods was the right man for the job last season when he couldnt win a match in caretaker charge?


Nobody mentioned Woods. You posted that you bet that Fenty wished he had re-engaged Slade as manager.

I posted that I bet he doesnt for the simple reason that JF would never have re-appoited him IMO. You can't regret something that you would have never have comtemplated!
Posted by: Paddymariner, September 10, 2010, 3:06pm; Reply: 101
Quoted from Maringer


Erm, so being an MP doesn't count as a job then? I'm confused.


Oh I thought he'd done the honourable thing and retired. On second thoughts, honorable and Brown.........nah!!!!
Posted by: Garth, September 10, 2010, 3:28pm; Reply: 102
Quoted from sonik


Very very true!   Words fail me at times like this.  I really can't be bothered to reply to most on here lately and read the forum daily.  We have a club to support and hopefully one on the up at last.  By god does John, Mike and others deserve some luck and footballing fortune to help on the way.

Onwards and upwards.  UTM!!


I think its true to say Sonic that the majority of GTFC fans do appreciate the efforts of the board, as we all know talks cheap if its not your money thats being spent.

Some people on here may live to regret their selfish comments when this town fails to have a football club, at this moment in time we are scrambling our way up after hitting rock bottom and if it continues the good times are not too far away.

Finally I would say that JF has had some cruel luck in appointing Newel and trusting him with the fortunes of this club, and the truthful ones amongst us thought at the time that Newel was the next Mark 1 Buckley
Posted by: sonik, September 10, 2010, 3:32pm; Reply: 103
Quoted from Garth


I think its true to say Sonic that the majority of GTFC fans do appreciate the efforts of the board, as we all know talks cheap if its not your money thats being spent.

Some people on here may live to regret their selfish comments when this town fails to have a football club, at this moment in time we are scrambling our way up after hitting rock bottom and if it continues the good times are not too far away.

Finally I would say that JF has had some cruel luck in appointing Newel and trusting him with the fortunes of this club, and the truthful ones amongst us thought at the time that Newel was the next Mark 1 Buckley


Thanks. Nice post.  UTM!!
Posted by: 1mickylyons, September 10, 2010, 4:53pm; Reply: 104
Quoted from Garth


I think its true to say Sonic that the majority of GTFC fans do appreciate the efforts of the board, as we all know talks cheap if its not your money thats being spent.

Some people on here may live to regret their selfish comments when this town fails to have a football club, at this moment in time we are scrambling our way up after hitting rock bottom and if it continues the good times are not too far away.

Finally I would say that JF has had some cruel luck in appointing Newel and trusting him with the fortunes of this club, and the truthful ones amongst us thought at the time that Newel was the next Mark 1 Buckley


Your easily pleased if you think were on our way up at this moment?Now taking barralds comments about realistic expectations you have to realise that for many of us midtable in the Championship was a gimme season after season so faffing about in the Conference is a massive shock to the system and JF is responsible for that.I really hope Woodsy pulls off promotion and then JF will be deserving in comments for backing his man etc and then lets talk about clawing our way up whilst were in the Conference were not even on the board.

Posted by: marinerjase, September 10, 2010, 5:10pm; Reply: 105
Whilst the chairman admirably keeps putting money in, that doesnt escape numerous mistakes as well, which he is accountable for. With  position of responsibility comes territory for others to express their opinions and also they have to acknowledge said mistakes. Yes he's keeping us going, but he put himself in that position, he wanted it, and I personally dont feel the need to keep thanking him. He should be thanking us for continually supporting them! Without the fans..its nothing.
Posted by: sonik, September 10, 2010, 5:32pm; Reply: 106
Quoted from marinerjase
Whilst the chairman admirably keeps putting money in, that doesnt escape numerous mistakes as well, which he is accountable for. With  position of responsibility comes territory for others to express their opinions and also they have to acknowledge said mistakes. Yes he's keeping us going, but he put himself in that position, he wanted it, and I personally dont feel the need to keep thanking him. He should be thanking us for continually supporting them! Without the fans..its nothing.


He continues to thank the fans all the time Jase.  Clapping at the announcement of attendances every game being one instance.  I can also assure you that he does'nt expect thanking for what he contributes either.  He like you, me and others are dying for the success that we all crave.  I just hope that isn't to far away.  UTM!!
Posted by: 1mickylyons, September 10, 2010, 5:50pm; Reply: 107
Quoted from sonik


He continues to thank the fans all the time Jase.  Clapping at the announcement of attendances every game being one instance.  I can also assure you that he does'nt expect thanking for what he contributes either.  He like you, me and others are dying for the success that we all crave.  I just hope that isn't to far away.  UTM!!


At least JF and MP have put money in unlike the paltry £500 the other 3 have forked out to be Directors unless i read it wrong?
Posted by: hertfordshire mariner, September 10, 2010, 6:27pm; Reply: 108
Quoted from moosey_club


Very interesting and in my opinion slightly deluded answers,

his denial to being in a mess does not really stand up just because they have projected a loss, and have said they will cover the debt. John Fenty started the cost cutting at this club several years ago, as he rightly identified there was too much outgoing for survival, has this cost cutting achieved parity in the accounts....would certainly appear not, have these measures stabilised the finances of the club.....would appear not......have these measures improved our on pitch strength and league presence.......no. Have the measures to date enabled us to survive, well we are still here so yes. Did his financial plan for restructuring of the club aim to have us losing 500,000 - 700,000 per season.....well not sure what we were losing prior to his restructuring but it must have been an awful f\/cking lot if the current prediction is an improvement.
The most comical and worrying factor though, considering he is a businessman, is his lack of responce to the first question, what are you doing to minimise the costs of the club with the current year on year losses.......hoping for a cup run!!! FFS. I would have been slightly more reassured if he had said "well i buy a lottery ticket every week, sometimes two when its a rollover"  

While always supporting JF as he has flushed plenty of his own money on Town the last couple of seasons have seen some odd strategies and statements from him. Hopefully Mike Parker can take some of the strain and add another perspective to the financial plans of the club.




2000 - 2001 operating loss of £2,391,300

Posted by: Swansea_Mariner, September 10, 2010, 6:28pm; Reply: 109
Quoted from moosey_club


While i see your point there is a flaw...

JF sets the budgets for the forthcoming season based on a financial model balanced against required achievement.
Predicted income forms the basis of the financial model which is based upon predicted and historical gate receipts, sponsorship, commercial activity etc, so this figure becomes the budget limit to spend, you spend the anticipated income and theoretically if all works out you break even.
Where i believe the mistakes have been made are in the predicted income from gate receipts which have fallen short of the mark. It was within the last couple of seasons while we were in the current downward spiral that JF announced that we needed to average 5000 at home to break even, there was even a telegraph campaign i believe.
Now if we needed 5000 average to break even and were not achieving that then the financial model was flawed, so you are losing money every game you dont hit the predicted average. Add to that the additional over the predicted budget spend come January when we have been strengthening the team with loans, signings etc as the initial budget spend team were boll@cks and looking like relegation then you have further trouble, add to that even lower attendance as performances are poor makes you further out on the predicted model and losing even more money per week and the cherry on top is the offers and promotions to get a crowd in, even less buck per head creating further mis alignment with original.
In a nutshell....set a realistic budget reflecting the actual achievable attendance, do not include football fortune windfall as a maybe, stick to it. It is the only way the club has any chance of managing its way out of debt and becoming self sustaining.
People ask how can Hayes, Histon, Tamworth etc survive on measly gates, the answer could be they cut their cloth accordingly and prudently manage their finances.  


I do not know John Fenty but he is undoubtably acutely aware this financial model is flawed, that is why he has said over and over that the club needs to relocate to new facilities to attract a more diverse revenue source. This is not feasible at the present time so instead he is funding over and above what would allow us to break even to help us to achieve success  - why because he loves the club.

Eventually the national economic position will change and he will be able to build a new stadium which will attract the revenues that will allow us to compete in the football league based on income generated rather than Director investment. I have seen nothing to believe that he will not continue to manage the club financially through the next few years from his own, and Mike Parkers own money until the time at which a new stadium can be built.

I'm not sure how many times and how many different ways Fenty can say that he is committed to bearing the brunt of the financial plight of the club, he's being doing it for several years so on that basis I firmly believe there is no reason to worry about it in the short to medium term.

Posted by: gary_elton, September 10, 2010, 6:51pm; Reply: 110
Quoted from sonik


He continues to thank the fans all the time Jase.  Clapping at the announcement of attendances every game being one instance.  I can also assure you that he does'nt expect thanking for what he contributes either.  He like you, me and others are dying for the success that we all crave.  I just hope that isn't to far away.  UTM!!


It is actually quite good to have a football club , and the one we all support now is thanks to JF's financial input... we would
have gone long ago if it were'nt for him... we all make mistakes... learn to live with them and try to overcome them... but it sure
makes a change to see a supporter for a chairman and not one who is just thinking £££££ and where the next middle/far eastern dollar is coming from
Posted by: dapperz fun pub, September 10, 2010, 6:55pm; Reply: 111
Quoted from gary_elton


It is actually quite good to have a football club , and the one we all support now is thanks to JF's financial input... we would
have gone long ago if it were'nt for him... we all make mistakes... learn to live with them and try to overcome them... but it sure
makes a change to see a supporter for a chairman and not one who is just thinking £££££ and where the next middle/far eastern dollar is coming from


clearly he loves the club but clearly he keeps making bad decisions,perhaps take a back seat and let parker have total control for a while
Posted by: gary_elton, September 10, 2010, 7:16pm; Reply: 112
Quoted from dapperz fun pub


clearly he loves the club but clearly he keeps making bad decisions,perhaps take a back seat and let parker have total control for a while


not saying he hasnt made mistakes , we all do that , but at least he has kept us afloat during very dark times.....
no doubt someone will say he was responsible for the dark times... but another chairman who wasn't such an avid supporter
would have said enough a long time ago and there would be no GTFC at all...  :) so just a litttle thanks to JF  from
us amidst all the abuse wouldn't go slightly amiss that's all.... always easy to criticise when you havent got the funds to
do what he has done...  awaiting criticism for my comments... but its my opinion, that's all...  :) I do not
mean to have a go at any particular individual here... my post is just general....
Posted by: Denby, September 10, 2010, 7:18pm; Reply: 113
Quoted from gary_elton
It is actually quite good to have a football club , and the one we all support now is thanks to JF's financial input... we would
have gone long ago if it were'nt for him... we all make mistakes... learn to live with them and try to overcome them... but it sure
makes a change to see a supporter for a chairman and not one who is just thinking £££££ and where the next middle/far eastern dollar is coming from


we'd have gone long ago if we, the fans, stopped turning up.  it isn't just john "the saint" fenty.  if fenty wasn't chairman perhaps we'd have a man in charge who decides on a strict salary budget (players + other staff) of around £1.2m a year in order to break even so he wouldn't have to keep loaning the club £600k a year.  he says he's proud that we haven't entered administration.  i am too.  but spending £600k per year over what you can afford and being relegated from the league is not particularly impressive management

(sorry icey, can't help myself ;-))
Posted by: theicenian, September 10, 2010, 7:31pm; Reply: 114
Quoted from Denby


we'd have gone long ago if we, the fans, stopped turning up.  it isn't just john "the saint" fenty.  if fenty wasn't chairman perhaps we'd have a man in charge who decides on a strict salary budget (players + other staff) of around £1.2m a year in order to break even so he wouldn't have to keep loaning the club £600k a year.  he says he's proud that we haven't entered administration.  i am too.  but spending £600k per year over what you can afford and being relegated from the league is not particularly impressive management

(sorry icey, can't help myself ;-))


;D ;D ;D

The only flaw in your plot Denbers is the word PERHAPS.   That has always been the risk.   I would be very loathe to say bye bye to JF on the premise that perhaps someone else turns up.

I'm in the Gary-Elton camp.   I hope now that in company with Mr.Parker JF can just for once have a bit of luck and have things go right for him.


Posted by: Denby, September 10, 2010, 7:34pm; Reply: 115
i think our luck was all used up when we survived the season before last ;)
Posted by: dapperz fun pub, September 10, 2010, 7:45pm; Reply: 116
Quoted from gary_elton


not saying he hasnt made mistakes , we all do that , but at least he has kept us afloat during very dark times.....
no doubt someone will say he was responsible for the dark times... but another chairman who wasn't such an avid supporter
would have said enough a long time ago and there would be no GTFC at all...  :) so just a litttle thanks to JF  from
us amidst all the abuse wouldn't go slightly amiss that's all.... always easy to criticise when you havent got the funds to
do what he has done...  awaiting criticism for my comments... but its my opinion, that's all...  :) I do not
mean to have a go at any particular individual here... my post is just general....


where was it written without john fenty the club would fold? im sick of this we should thank him bollox just my opinion,if we dont get out of this league quickly we,ll be fooked with or without him and lets face it hes in such a big hole he cant escape can he
Posted by: The Old Codger, September 10, 2010, 8:00pm; Reply: 117
Quoted from dapperz fun pub


where was it written without john fenty the club would fold? im sick of this we should thank him bollox just my opinion,if we dont get out of this league quickly we,ll be fooked with or without him and lets face it hes in such a big hole he cant escape can he


WHS with knobs, bells and whistles on!

Some people ought to look at the club's outgoings and they might see things differently. I'm not saying any more than that but look at my earlier posts for a clue.
Posted by: ska face, September 10, 2010, 8:06pm; Reply: 118
Quoted from The Old Codger


WHS with knobs, bells and whistles on!


Whatever happened to "I agree"? (blink)
Posted by: Denby, September 10, 2010, 8:07pm; Reply: 119
i think this has been discussed before.  something like 5 star fish loaned gtfc some cash a few years ago, gtfc couldn't repay it, the loan was turned into a sponsorship, fenty sold his share in 5 star fish and an agreement was set up by which mr john "the saint" fenty would receive £650k in pension payments...
Posted by: dapperz fun pub, September 10, 2010, 8:38pm; Reply: 120
Quoted from The Old Codger
Pensions seem to be still £170k a year?????????


errrmmmm
Posted by: Alfie, September 10, 2010, 8:42pm; Reply: 121
Quoted from gary_elton


It is actually quite good to have a football club , and the one we all support now is thanks to JF's financial input... we would
have gone long ago if it were'nt for him...
we all make mistakes... learn to live with them and try to overcome them... but it sure
makes a change to see a supporter for a chairman and not one who is just thinking £££££ and where the next middle/far eastern dollar is coming from


What a load of tosh.

If he'd have not 'saved' us, we'd have gone into administration, cleared our debts and started again under a new owner. I'd have rather taken my chances than endured the rubbish this clown has presided over.

Fenty out.
Posted by: BIGChris, September 10, 2010, 8:47pm; Reply: 122
There are clearly two camps on this.

There are those who say, like Alfie, that if JF had chucked it all in we would have gone into administration, cleared our debts and a new owner would have taken over.
Sounds very straight forward doesnt it?

On the other hand some say that there is no guarantee that we would would have come out of administration and that there might not have been a 'knight in shining armour' . Had that been the case the club would have disappeared and we would be a present day Chester starting all over again.

I guess the two camps could be the gamblers and the non-gamblers
Posted by: Paddymariner, September 10, 2010, 9:00pm; Reply: 123
Whatever you think of Fenty (personally, I have no complaints), no fornicator, with the exception of Mike Parker, has done anything much to help him.
Posted by: kingofthekippers, September 10, 2010, 9:02pm; Reply: 124
Quoted from Paddymariner
Whatever you think of Fenty (personally, I have no complaints), no fornicator, with the exception of Mike Parker, has done anything much to help him.


That's not strictly true. I was stood behind him once in B&Q and he dropped a bag of nails on the floor. I picked them up, handed them over and he said thank you.
Posted by: Paddymariner, September 10, 2010, 9:10pm; Reply: 125
Quoted from kingofthekippers


That's not strictly true. I was stood behind him once in B&Q and he dropped a bag of nails on the floor. I picked them up, handed them over and he said thank you.


I thought you were going to say you nailed him to a cross!
Posted by: barralad, September 10, 2010, 10:14pm; Reply: 126
Quoted from Alfie


What a load of tosh.

If he'd have not 'saved' us, we'd have gone into administration, cleared our debts and started again under a new owner. I'd have rather taken my chances than endured the rubbish this clown has presided over.

Fenty out.


Just like that.... Now that fits my description of tosh...
Posted by: kingofthekippers, September 10, 2010, 10:20pm; Reply: 127
Quoted from barralad


Just like that.... Now that fits my description of tosh...


Absolutely. Operation Admin does require a new owner to step out of the shadows and that is where the plan fails.
Posted by: rancido, September 10, 2010, 10:27pm; Reply: 128
Quoted from barralad


Just like that.... Now that fits my description of tosh...


Of course it's tosh but unfortunately some of the jokers on here can't see it. They seem to think that once you go into administration the debts are cleared then along comes someone with the money to buy the club and everything will be ok. They even quote other clubs that have done this BUT there is no guarantee that this will happen.Clubs that went bust years ago are still in the football wilderness like Chester and Bradford P.A. It took other clubs like Accrington and Aldershot ages to get back into the league and they are still not really thriving.
Posted by: kingofthekippers, September 10, 2010, 10:29pm; Reply: 129
Quoted from rancido


Of course it's tosh but unfortunately some of the jokers on here can't see it. They seem to think that once you go into administration the debts are cleared then along comes someone with the money to buy the club and everything will be ok. They even quote other clubs that have done this BUT there is no guarantee that this will happen.Clubs that went bust years ago are still in the football wilderness like Chester and Bradford P.A. It took other clubs like Accrington and Aldershot ages to get back into the league and they are still not really thriving.


Or the other angle they take is that there is a 'mystery man' who wants to take over the club but John Fenty keeps turning him down because his offer is not good enough.

So if I go to BP on Monday and offer Mr Fenty £1,000 to take the club off his hands does that make me the 'mystery man'. Any idiot can make an offer, doesn't mean it is a good one.
Posted by: 1mickylyons, September 11, 2010, 3:47pm; Reply: 130
Thanks for saving us from the Abyss John.OH
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