Most important Town manager ever

Importance (of great significance or value)

Buckley, McMenemy, Hurst?

Have I missed another?

Hurst for me, he's managed to get us out of the two worst moments in our history.

George Kerr for me.

Quote from Wiki :-

"In July 1978 he became first team coach of Grimsby Town. In 1979 he became their manager and The Mariners won the Third Division championship in 1980 in Kerr's first season in charge. They finished 7th in the Second Division the following season after challenging for promotion, with the side third in the table with seven games remaining, and a return to Division One after a 33-year absence looked very much on the cards"

Second best league position ever in post war era, which none of the other managers have done.

NB.
For the younger ones Division 1 is now the prem and second division is the championship. The Third division is now the current Division !.

Edit. I'm assured Dave Booth took us to the best poition in the second division. Thanks to those who corrected my original post.

Quoted from DB

George Kerr for me.

Quote from Wiki :-

"In July 1978 he became first team coach of Grimsby Town. In 1979 he became their manager and The Mariners won the Third Division championship in 1980 in Kerr's first season in charge. They finished 7th in the Second Division the following season after challenging for promotion, with the side third in the table with seven games remaining, and a return to Division One after a 33-year absence looked very much on the cards"

Best league position ever in post war era, which none of the other managers have done.

NB.
For the younger ones Division 1 is now the prem and second division is the championship. The Third division is now the current Division !.

Didn’t Dave Booth finish us even higher in Division 2 a couple of seasons later?

I think you are looking at it wrong. They were all great managers for us. But, the managers you should look at are the ones directly before. Lyons/Roberts, slade, hollowhead etc. sometimes you need the lows to reach the highs

While some managers have lead us to the most significant matches in modern day terms (Lawrence at Liverpool, slade v Tottenham, hurst 2016/2022) we’ve had some mighty mighty crap lows too

Quoted from Heisenberg

Didn’t Dave Booth finish us even higher in Division 2 a couple of seasons later?

Yeah 5th under booth, would have been inbthe play offs for the prem nowadays

You can have importantly bad as well as importantly good.

For that reason, I’d say Newell. He took us into a hellhole from which various managers tried and failed to get us out of. He was a truly awful appointment and, whilst many of us were optimistic at the time, his reputation was apparently well known.

Quoted from Heisenberg

Didn’t Dave Booth finish us even higher in Division 2 a couple of seasons later?

Post amended, thanks for the info.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

You can have importantly bad as well as importantly good.

For that reason, I’d say Newell. He took us into a hellhole from which various managers tried and failed to get us out of. He was a truly awful appointment and, whilst many of us were optimistic at the time, his reputation was apparently well known.

Newell is an interesting one, I’d argue that many saw it as a good appointment, however, he did already have a reputation and once again, for a man who’s allegedly made a few million quid, he wasn’t half a duffer at picking managers or making decisions related to managers.

Perhaps, had social media been more prevalent when Newell came, fans wouldn’t have been so easily taken in. When runaway came in it didn’t take long for a quick scour on social media to realise what he was, a flipping charlatan that is pretty much universally hated by any club he’s managed.

Newell created and lived in a drinking culture, perhaps that’s what won Fenty over. A colleague often tells stories of her father working for Fenty and being in the pub constantly with him, was it that? Or was he just sold on the fact he’d heard of him?

By the time Newell arrived you’d have imagined the reputation of the club was pretty dismal, we’re now seeing and hearing things that tell us that people swerved the club whilst Fenty was here and I guess that was the same with Newell at the helm. Probably same with runaway. Under Hurst first time it was clear players came because of him, nobody else and to take us up under that leadership of the club looks an even greater achievement now than it did then.

It’s what has happened after those failed managers which increases the stature of day Buckley and Hurst. In my lifetime, should Hurst take us up or get us close to it, this year or the year after, for me he becomes probably the greatest. He took over the club in his second spell under the leadership of Fenty, albeit a dead and buried Fenty. The club was a mess, zero preseason and a manager who was here for literally no other reason than personal gain.

We nearly stayed up but in truth I think he’d admit it now that we had zero chance. We were down before Christmas. What has happened since is nothing short of amazing, on and off the pitch and Hurst has been instrumental in that. Then we have the playoffs…

The club is moving forward and thank Christ we’ve Hurst in charge…

Quoted from aldi_01

Newell is an interesting one, I’d argue that many saw it as a good appointment, however, he did already have a reputation and once again, for a man who’s allegedly made a few million quid, he wasn’t half a duffer at picking managers or making decisions related to managers.

Perhaps, had social media been more prevalent when Newell came, fans wouldn’t have been so easily taken in. When runaway came in it didn’t take long for a quick scour on social media to realise what he was, a flipping charlatan that is pretty much universally hated by any club he’s managed.

Newell created and lived in a drinking culture, perhaps that’s what won Fenty over. A colleague often tells stories of her father working for Fenty and being in the pub constantly with him, was it that? Or was he just sold on the fact he’d heard of him?

By the time Newell arrived you’d have imagined the reputation of the club was pretty dismal, we’re now seeing and hearing things that tell us that people swerved the club whilst Fenty was here and I guess that was the same with Newell at the helm. Probably same with runaway. Under Hurst first time it was clear players came because of him, nobody else and to take us up under that leadership of the club looks an even greater achievement now than it did then.

It’s what has happened after those failed managers which increases the stature of day Buckley and Hurst. In my lifetime, should Hurst take us up or get us close to it, this year or the year after, for me he becomes probably the greatest. He took over the club in his second spell under the leadership of Fenty, albeit a dead and buried Fenty. The club was a mess, zero preseason and a manager who was here for literally no other reason than personal gain.

We nearly stayed up but in truth I think he’d admit it now that we had zero chance. We were down before Christmas. What has happened since is nothing short of amazing, on and off the pitch and Hurst has been instrumental in that. Then we have the playoffs…

The club is moving forward and thank Christ we’ve Hurst in charge…

Many were taken in completely by Holloway, even toward the end before the May stuff came out there were plenty supporting him and people were shot down on here who suggested he hadn't made the investment in the club he said he would, as there were many still supporting  Fenty too.  
As fans we are pretty blinkered, most players we sign we want to get completely behind whatever other teams fans tell us and will pull out examples ( Nolan, Connell, etc) to help convince ourselves.  It's the same with managers, there are plenty who suddenly think the sun shines out of Hursts bottom who a few months ago were screaming for him to be sacked.
The truth is when we get a new manager it is usually because the last one has failed so we are blinded by the hope of a new dawn.
As for the most important manager or best, in my time it has to be Buckley.  If you judge our expected league position in terms of crowd size we should be around perhaps lower to mid third tier, only Buckley has seen us consistently above that and that with playing a style of football that many of the so called bigger teams could only dream of

The most important Town manager is always the current one.

Is this in our lifetimes? If not the answer is almost certainly Wilf Gillow. When he was appointed in 1924, the board had almost decided we didn't need a manager and they could do just as good a job of finding players and picking the team themselves. We'd been three seasons in Division Three (North) by then, and not showing any signs of winning promotion. Not non-League but most of the clubs we played had been non-League only three seasons before. The standard was poor but with only one promotion place, it was a hard league to get out of. Not only did Gillow do that, he took us up to the first division. Bestall, Glover, Hall, Betmead, Buck, and Tweedy were all signed under Gillow

Whilst I will admit that Hurst has grown on me towards the latter end of the season, he still has a long way to go before being mentioned in the same breath as Sir Alan Buckley !

They’re all important in their own right. I don’t think there’s a comparison to be made here.

I think it's a really, really good question.   I like the use of the term important as opposed to 'best'.

Best manager I've seen is AB.  If for nothing else the style of football he got us playing, when many sides were much more direct and the admiration he won us from all across the footballing fanbase.  Stuff in that first spell especially was just magnificent.  

Applying some context to it.  He took a side back to the second flight that had only left it a handful of years previous.  Two successive relegations were relatively quickly followed by successive promotions under him.  Less than 10 years before we hung on nervously as Exeter prodded and prodded at John Cockerill's two-goal lead, this club was reaching for the top flight.  

Of course the game had changed in that gap.  When we were back in the second flight we were met with money sides like Derby, Wolves and Blackburn.  Newcastle finding their spending power the season after under Keegan.  The playing field had changed a little and now we were more of little old Grimsby.  Low gates, low budget but plucky as hell and definitely not backing down to anyone.

What Hurst has done is something very different.  He's yet to take us to a level I think most of us see as more of a natural position (mid-higher League One).  But the sheer turnaround in 18 months is simply staggering.  Buckley took time to get it right.   Hurst didn't have that luxury this time.  His first 6 months back was spent with the impossible task of reassembling a squad mid-season amidst a dressing room that was carnage, topping it all off with no financial backing at all.   Amazingly he almost pulled something spectacular off.   But what followed is incredible.

A summer of completely rebuilding everything.  From top to bottom.  Change was everywhere and that's a very difficult environment to have success in.  Long term, sure you're building the foundations.  But short term there's probably an expectation that it's a learning environment and you're not going to see on field success.  

To bounce back at the first time of asking, in probably the most competitive fifth tier campaign I think I can imagine, with a budget that doesn't match up to the bigger spenders, with building what was 3 teams in a season, then having that mammoth task in the play-offs....that's beyond significant.

I think history will show us that 1878 taking over the club was a significant period.  Hurst is heading that up and leading the initial charge.  For getting us back to a level playing field at the first time of asking, I think that's arguably enough to make him the most important.  Getting out of non-league is the hardest of tasks, just because of the reduced promotion places alone.  There's mega money in that league again next year.  Whilst I think it's a slightly weaker league, it's still very competitive and no-one is guaranteed to escape (that would have included us).  As a club, could we have survived another 6 years at that level?  That's how significant Hurst has been for us.

Well said DHM, those last 3 games were a subject of comic book heroes

I was going to say Lawrie McMenemy was the best manager, but he left us in Divisions 3 and went of Southhampton .So for me, it has to be George Kerr

George was part of John Newmans coaching staff that was the beginning of the glory days, and after taking over from John, he led the Mighty Mariners to Division Three Champions and a strong team in Division 2.

I ponder and think that Paul has the ability to follow this with in our near future!

It’s a fair question but impossible to answer, too many factors..finances, times, games and leagues changed, footballs changed. And as mentioned above a key factor is who you are working under, I’ve gone on record as saying PH deserves all the credit in the world for working under that regime for 6 years, and ‘achieving’ - some say it wasn’t as we finished miles off- but it was.

And I agree with the comment above - difficult to compare era’s.

Buckley was outstanding in his time, but easy to forget he had his detractors- much like Hurst ..who has had the same. There’s the saying ‘you can please some of the people all the time..’ etc etc ..

In my time, as well as those two I was lucky enough to see the George Kerr and John Newman spells (albeit was young) - and along the years also seen some who’ve had awful times.

Part of the charm of supporting your local side is succeeding against the odds..embracing the good days when they come, riding the bad days..

I do think PH will go down in time as one of the ‘good’ guys, and deservedly so. Some knock his demeanour, his accent, his lack of screaming and shouting on the touch line etc etc - what anyone can’t knock is his ability to produce squads, not a team, that will all buy into the ethos, A manager determined to succeed and improve, relentless, hard working and one who is the right fit, at the right time. In many respects polar opposites to AB - but very similar in other traits.

I’m not going to pick a ‘best’ - I don’t think that’s a fair thing to do in all honesty. They’re all  Part of the journey along the way, as we supporters are.

I actually do think it’s Hurst. Run very close by AB though.

Best manager is a different question and the answer to that in my lifetime will always be St Alan.

Holloway.

i do think you have to look at what chairman they had to work with, in those terms hurst worked miracles.

Hurst isn't the best manager we've ever had. But you'd struggle to argue that he isn't the most important. We're potentially on the verge of turning this club around after 20 years of being mismanaged and the impetus from the change in form starting in February shouldn't be underestimated.

Quoted from DB

George Kerr for me.

Quote from Wiki :-

"In July 1978 he became first team coach of Grimsby Town. In 1979 he became their manager and The Mariners won the Third Division championship in 1980 in Kerr's first season in charge. They finished 7th in the Second Division the following season after challenging for promotion, with the side third in the table with seven games remaining, and a return to Division One after a 33-year absence looked very much on the cards"

Second best league position ever in post war era, which none of the other managers have done.

NB.
For the younger ones Division 1 is now the prem and second division is the championship. The Third division is now the current Division !.

Edit. I'm assured Dave Booth took us to the best poition in the second division. Thanks to those who corrected my original post.

Sorry but I have to take issue with this.

Those boys were nurtured by Tom Casey and then honed into even better players by John Newman. Kerr just happened to take over at the right stage of their development and benefit from their inevitable success.

Indeed Kerr himself even once admitted that he never had to try and talk tactics with the players as they seemed to instinctively always know what to do.

To use an analogy out on the pitch, it would be like Casey and Newman building an intricate move from the back where they proceeded to beat all 10 opposition outfield players between them, and then passed it to Kerr standing on the goal-line who simply tapped it into the back of the net for which he got all the credit!

Kerr did of course have certain attributes whereby he allowed the team to express themselves without being overly shackled, but please let's give the real credit to the guys who earnt it.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

You can have importantly bad as well as importantly good.

For that reason, I’d say Newell. He took us into a hellhole from which various managers tried and failed to get us out of. He was a truly awful appointment and, whilst many of us were optimistic at the time, his reputation was apparently well known.

Only had to speak to a Luton fan to hear about his antics.This appointment showed a shocking lack of due diligence,said so at the time and got slated.

I’m torn between Tom Casey & John Newman TBH if memory serves me right Tom Casey started to put faith into the youngsters who went on to be a big part of a very successful period for the club as well as integrate the likes of Bobby Cumming and helped Joe establish himself, then John Newman brought that talent on to get promoted.

I think we’re in a position now though where if PH stays for a long period supported by Jason & Andrew like he has been the fabric of this club will deliver a pipeline of talent that could with the right blend of youth & experience take us further forward.

Quoted from exiledmeggie

I was going to say Lawrie McMenemy was the best manager, but he left us in Divisions 3 and went of Southhampton .So for me, it has to be George Kerr

George was part of John Newmans coaching staff that was the beginning of the glory days, and after taking over from John, he led the Mighty Mariners to Division Three Champions and a strong team in Division 2.

I ponder and think that Paul has the ability to follow this with in our near future!

Well he came very close to getting Shrewsbury into the Championship one year or so after taking them over while they were facing relegation. So he has the ability to put together a side capable of challenging at the top of L1.

24 posts and Shankly doesn't even earn a mention and Wilf Gillow, who has to be the most significant manager weve had, only rates 1 post

No one mentioned Mick Lyons 👍

Maybe not classed as the best but in my time of watching the Mariners, Lawrie McMenemy has to be classed as the most important, after being relegated to Division 4 in 1967/68 then flirting with relegation out of the Football League with having to apply for re-election in 1968/69, if we had gone out of the League at that time we may never have got back in years, but LM came in and transformed the team and brought crowds we can only dream of even now.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Maybe not classed as the best but in my time of watching the Mariners, Lawrie McMenemy has to be classed as the most important, after being relegated to Division 4 in 1967/68 then flirting with relegation out of the Football League with having to apply for re-election in 1968/69, if we had gone out of the League at that time we may never have got back in years, but LM came in and transformed the team and brought crowds we can only dream of even now.

Just what I think as well - although Bobby Kennedy managed to keep us in the Football League the season before (with some recruits that Laurie inherited, such as Stuart Brace, Mike Hickman, Dave Boylen, Harry Wainman, Jack Lewis)

I think it's really important (haha) to note that this is most important manager not necessarily being the best one.

Many of the managers mentioned if they hadn't had the success they did it probably on the other hand wouldn't have amounted to disaster for the club. I think that's why people keep going back to Buckley mk1 and Hurst.

When Buckley mk1 came weren't we in deep trouble having had the action 88 campaign to keep the club  afloat? If he hadn't come then who knows what might have happened if it weren't for Buckley. Only 1 relegation spot back then so unlikely to go down but if you did - well only the champions go back up and that is incredibly difficult as 40 or so years without being one shows. Maybe we would have been marooned in the abyss of non league for years, back when it really was an abyss of lack of coverage.

With Buckley mk2 however we were established and actually had quite a bit of money to spend. He got us up at the first attempt and took us to Wembley for the first (and of course second) time but I don't think we would have been in any jeopardy if he hadn't come back.

With Hurst mk1 i think it has since become completely clear how hard it was to labour under the ownership of the leech. It took him years and multiple attempts to get up, if not for him maybe it would have seen us fall even further, fenty had some very odd managerial appointments. It would be difficult to see even fenty managing to intercourse us up enough to go down further but repeated failure to get up or even challenge so that extreme apathy sucked the life out the club out isn't too difficult to oimagine. Maybe in that scenario his little scheme involving the fraudster might have not received the opposition it did and the  the very existence of the club really would have been seriously jeopardised.

With Hurst mk2 he came back and the leech had had even longer to gradually erode the club, we were a complete basket case. He couldn't stop the rot in time to prevent relegation for a second time. This time into a NL of several moneyed clubs of various reasons. We had our full parachute payments for one season and transfer windfalls to payoff the leech for the year, but any more time spent down here would have meant it got harder and harder to get out of what is already an incredibly tough division to get promoted from. Even with the quality leadership and governance of 1878 that could have meant the new enthusiasm was crashed against the jail cell door of NL and wore down the fanbase. But with Hurst guiding us out at the first time of asking it means we have a genuine renaissance possible at the club from the lowest base its been at, utterly incredible really. Especially if you think we're we might have been without not only Hurst, but 1878 as well, fenty in charge of a husk of a club with I would think sub 2500 gates, maybe even sub 2000, I think we'd be looking at NL relegation battles at best.

For the fact Hurst seems to have pulled out two of the arguably most important promotions for us I think I will call him the most important, not the best mind, still sir Alan for me that one, but the most important.

It's interesting cos I think the Cowleys are undoubtedly the most important managers at Lincoln. The club appeared to be slowly dying, down to just over 2k fans and becoming a seeming perennial NL mid table type side like a Woking type sized club. He utterly transformed them in a few years and I don't mind admitting to being jealous. I thought it would be fantastic if we could discover our cowley who could return the club to something like it had been before the leech. Well I think after winning the NL championship and Cup run lincoln sold about 5.5k season  tickets (might be wrong tho) for their return to the league and their board backed him and within 2 seasons they were up again. Now with the incredible momentum of that phenomenal playoff campaign hursty managed we seem o have engineered ourselves to a similar level of enthusiasm for the club, with a golden opportunity to build further. I'm not saying we will now go on to do that but we've actually given ourselves a very nearly equal chance of doing what lincoln did (ok we don't have cup run cash) which I am amazed at - season tickets going like never before, people worried about being able to get tickets to away games or getting non restricted view tickets, genuiey didn't think I'd ever see it!

Just maybe our transformative manager was here all along, all those years ago, he was just held back by a "that won't win us 3 points on a Saturday attitude" by the leech and his sycophants, and thus chose to leave and do his stuff at Shrewsbury? Let's see what he can do now he's being backed....

I think a lot of credit should go to John Newman.  He built the foundations for the squad that Kerr and Booth took to greatness.

Just have to look at my signature below.
Says it all.
God