Aldershot Town thread, sponsored by James Wade

They don’t have ‘other players up there close to him in the scoring charts’ mate.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chesterfield/top-scorers

Quoted from quebec38

No problems from either me or chaos, marinerjase? Just two people debating something, no nastiness.

I see a lot that Chesterfield get called a one man team but I don’t think it’s true.

Of course Tshimanga has a higher percentage of goals in comparison to his team mates, he’s scored nearly 40% more than the second top scorer in the league. My point is though that they have as many players high up in the scoring charts close to Tshimanga as other teams so why are they deemed more reliant on him than any other side is their top scorer?

I don’t agree with what Chesterfield did last season and I think it’s stupid that they spent 250k on one player in division 5, but I think this criticism is unfair.

I think it's a pretty fair assessment. How many games this season has he turned 1 point in to 3 or 0 points in to 1 for Chesterfield? His goal at BP was an opportunistic poacher's goal that was extremely well taken, far better taken than probably anyone else in the division could do and almost certainly anyone else in their squad could manage. If he'd not been there to score all of those goals, and 50% of a team's total goals scored is staggering, they'd probably be similar to us points wise.

Going back to the game that we played against them they weren't spectacular and bar the goal and a good save from Crocombe in the first half we actually produced more and better chances than them despite being in the middle of a horrible run of form and being understrength. I remember many people commenting that they were a classic side that does well in this division in that they were strong and organised with a particularly good striker who wins them the points. Now they don't have him, I bet they slide down the table a bit

Players with 5 or more goals in the league, could only be arsed looking at the top 7.

Stockport
Madden 11
Crankshaw 8
Collar 6

Chesterfield
Thsimanga 24
Quigley 6
Rowe 5

Halifax
Waters 13
Slew 9
Warburton 8

Bromley
Cheek 15

Boreham Wood
Rees 8
Boden 7
Marsh 5

Solihull
Dallas 11
Sbarra 11

Wrexham
Mullin 11
Davies 6
Hayden 5

I don’t think there is much difference between them all hence why I think the criticism is harsh. Only really Halifax and Solihull are doing anything remotely different.

But those stats undo your argument don’t they. 🙂

Quoted from quebec38

Players with 5 or more goals in the league, could only be arsed looking at the top 7.

Stockport
Madden 11
Crankshaw 8
Collar 6

Chesterfield
Thsimanga 24
Quigley 6
Rowe 5

Halifax
Waters 13
Slew 9
Warburton 8

Bromley
Cheek 15

Boreham Wood
Rees 8
Boden 7
Marsh 5

Solihull
Dallas 11
Sbarra 11

Wrexham
Mullin 11
Davies 6
Hayden 5

I don’t think there is much difference between them all hence why I think the criticism is harsh. Only really Halifax and Solihull are doing anything remotely different.

But it doesn't matter how many goals the rest of the team have scored, it's the contribution of the individual player that dictates whether or not they're a one man team. At Wrexham Mullin has scored 26% of their goals, Cheek has scored 36% of Bromley's goals, Waters 32% of Halifax's goals and Madden 20% of Stockport's. None of them are even close to the 50% that Tshimanga contributed to Chesterfield, they are far more reliant on him than other teams are on their top scorers.

There were 10 games so far this season where Tshimanga's goals directly altered the outcome of the game in Chesterfield's favours which has won them an extra 17 points. That would put them on the same points as Southend. Obviously some goals would be scored by his replacement but you reckon Asante is going to start knocking in a goal virtually every game? I'd be astonished.

Not really? It suggests to me that there isn’t much between any of them, just that Thsimanga on his own is a freak and it completely skews things in terms of his contribution to team goals, not that they rely on him too heavily.

Quoted from chaos33

I don’t think it’s an argument as such mate, and it’s not abusive or anything is it. Quebec thinks I made an overstatement….I’m not sure I did but am open to discussion about it. I’m a bit confused about the ‘facts are facts’ point as I think ‘facts’ have been conflated with stats - and as we all know, you can use stats and context to ‘prove’ anything. In this case, I think my argument, based on the stats is stronger but I’m not gonna lose it because it is challenged. That’s what the forum is for isn’t it. I think the salient points are : Tshimanga has scored 50% of Chesterfields goals and that is decisively incomparable. I think that has meant that their league position is due to that performance, substantially. Maybe ‘over reliant’ is a stretch, but I think there’d be broad agreement on this and the view that he’s unique in this division and a huge loss.

Fair point re discussion and no argument on this one - some threads do evolve into mammary for tat stuff - least you two or three are discussing this , whatever your views, and not resorting to insults etc, which can be the case sometimes

Quoted from quebec38

Not really? It suggests to me that there isn’t much between any of them, just that Thsimanga on his own is a freak and it completely skews things in terms of his contribution to team goals, not that they rely on him too heavily.

Don't know why you keep persisting with this. He has scored 18 more goals than their next top scorer and 50% of their entire goals total.

The very definition of 'heavily reliant'.

Because it’s a discussion forum and it’s fine to debate things? We see things differently and are in disagreement. I understand where chaos is coming from and he may do me.

The proof will be in the pudding. I think this will destroy Chesterfield’s promotion hopes the same as most, but it would do anyone if they lost their top scorer, whether he was 10 in front or 20. Hence my point of over reliance. They rely on him because he’s their best player, do they rely on him any more than Solihull rely on their two top scorers or we do McAtee? I think it’s just the same, personally.

Quoted from quebec38

Players with 5 or more goals in the league, could only be arsed looking at the top 7.

Stockport
Madden 11
Crankshaw 8
Collar 6

Chesterfield
Thsimanga 24
Quigley 6
Rowe 5

Halifax
Waters 13
Slew 9
Warburton 8

Bromley
Cheek 15

Boreham Wood
Rees 8
Boden 7
Marsh 5

Solihull
Dallas 11
Sbarra 11

Wrexham
Mullin 11
Davies 6
Hayden 5

I don’t think there is much difference between them all hence why I think the criticism is harsh. Only really Halifax and Solihull are doing anything remotely different.

Only Stockport and Halifax have scorers with over 5 goals scoring more than Tshimanga. They need to get back to the drawing board tactically.