Just Back...on the bus.

The game was lost in the first half. No creativity, no movement. Defensively OK but always a mistake in us, but no real wonder under that sort of pressure.
Second half a different story. Timely substitution from Hurst  saw the new lad on. Calm head and always looking for a pass. Mcatee found his mojo and we pressed them back. We should have scored when the ball was in their six yard box for at least 30 seconds and again when Abrahams movement gave him space in the six yard box but he couldn't find a finish.
For all the money they've spent Wrexham were no better than either Halifax or even Bromley and they spent the last ten minutes (including a derisory four minutes added on) time wasting.
Maybe we deserved something out of the game but they took the one real chance whereas we didn't take either of ours. That's probably what you spend £300K for.

Safe trip home to you and the others

Just not sure you can be defensively ok when we’ve always got a mistake in us

Quoted from Hagrid

Safe trip home to you and the others

Just not sure you can be defensively ok when we’ve always got a mistake in us

We restricted a costly forward line to three real chances and two of those were on the break. Not sure what else you'd call it.

Quoted from barralad

The game was lost in the first half. No creativity, no movement. Defensively OK but always a mistake in us, but no real wonder under that sort of pressure.
Second half a different story. Timely substitution from Hurst  saw the new lad on. Calm head and always looking for a pass. Mcatee found his mojo and we pressed them back. We should have scored when the ball was in their six yard box for at least 30 seconds and again when Abrahams movement gave him space in the six yard box but he couldn't find a finish.
For all the money they've spent Wrexham were no better than either Halifax or even Bromley and they spent the last ten minutes (including a derisory four minutes added on) time wasting.
Maybe we deserved something out of the game but they took the one real chance whereas we didn't take either of ours. That's probably what you spend £300K for.

Safe trip home!

Quoted from barralad

We restricted a costly forward line to three real chances and two of those were on the break. Not sure what else you'd call it.

Another defeat.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Another defeat.

No sh1t Sherlock. Did you bother to read Hagrids post to which I was replying?

You where there and I just listened to the radio commentary but I just got the feeling from Tonder and Limbrick that we were crying out for Wright and Clifton to come on and play down the wings to create chances and Hurst brought Burgess and The Shop on instead. Maybe they can see things that our manager struggles to see and I think there lies the problem Hurst is too negative.

Their new forward cost £300k and scored. Our new forward is on loan and missed a sitter. That's the difference.

I posted this on the Match Thread and Barra wont have heard it due to being at the game

But Limbrick was not impressed with PH at all. Of course couldnt say it, but it was pretty evident in the comments he did make

Quoted from Spurn boy

You where there and I just listened to the radio commentary but I just got the feeling from Tonder and Limbrick that we were crying out for Wright and Clifton to come on and play down the wings to create chances and Hurst brought Burgess and The Shop on instead. Maybe they can see things that our manager struggles to see and I think there lies the problem Hurst is too negative.

Suddenly, Limbrick is the oracle.

Who does he manage?

Quoted from barralad

No sh1t Sherlock. Did you bother to read Hagrids post to which I was replying?

I read it word for word. We lost. Again. Umpteen straight away defeats in a row. Wealdstone, Maidenhead, Kiddy and God knows who else.

We keep backing a manager who’s lost his mojo and we keep signing players who look like they’re not bothered or not good enough.

It’s excrement and it needs sorting.

Quoted from Hagrid

I posted this on the Match Thread and Barra wont have heard it due to being at the game

But Limbrick was not impressed with PH at all. Of course couldnt say it, but it was pretty evident in the comments he did make

What did he say?

Was that the same left back Sousa had on toast at BP? Wondering why he played his entire game on the other side to him? And Smith looks like a young centre back playing out of position, would've been better sticking Wright there in the second half.

Quoted from davmariner

What did he say?

Referencing the lack of a substituion. How we wernt using the width when we had pace on the bench, how he or JT has no idea what our formation was

Quoted from Spurn boy

You where there and I just listened to the radio commentary but I just got the feeling from Tonder and Limbrick that we were crying out for Wright and Clifton to come on and play down the wings to create chances and Hurst brought Burgess and The Shop on instead. Maybe they can see things that our manager struggles to see and I think there lies the problem Hurst is too negative.

I can't argue with the lack of width in the second half, and wouldn't dream of arguing about Clifton and Wright with someone who does football for a living. The facts are that after a nothing first half Mcatees vision and skill created the two chances we did have.

Quoted from davmariner

What did he say?

He couldn't understand why we didn't bring another wide player on.

Quoted from DB

Their new forward cost £300k and scored. Our new forward is on loan and missed a sitter. That's the difference.

Having seen the goals on here I think, though Abrams should’ve done better, his chance was harder as he had to act quickly to decide how to take it whereas Palmer had time to stand still, turn like an oil tanker, then kick it in to an open goal

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0bk98rr

Just listening to Hurst's post match, he's delusional he really thinks we deserved something from that game. He's lost the plot.

Quoted from sonofmadeleymariner

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0bk98rr

Just listening to Hurst's post match, he's delusional he really thinks we deserved something from that game. He's lost the plot.

Well i only listened on the radio but id agree
We had 3 guilt edged chances
They had 2

We cant blame Hurst for Abrahams failing to put the ball in from 4 yards out

Quoted from sonofmadeleymariner

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0bk98rr

Just listening to Hurst's post match, he's delusional he really thinks we deserved something from that game. He's lost the plot.

On balance our endeavours in the second half probably earned us something. Once the new lad came on we had them rattled. The time wasting wasn't a characteristic usually associated with a big spending team enjoying a comfortable night.

There’s a line in that interview which I think is quite telling. When asked about ‘going for it’ he says “well when should you go for it? If you go for it from the 46th minute you might go 2 down and then it’s game over”.

Sums him up for me, and think that was a more honest assessment of his way of thinking than the confected lines about being an optimist one end and pessimist the other. Yes please, from the 46th minute. Maybe even earlier if you’re feeling adventurous.

That’s what Hurst, and a succession of previous managers (and boards) just don’t get. Fans would rather lose 2-0 going for it than lose 1-0 with a steady performance hoping to nick one. Who knows, got for it and you might win 2,3,4-1, nobody’ll complain about the team openly trying to win a match.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znmlFNDwfpI&ab_channel=GrimsbyTownF.C.

Quoted from arryarryarry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znmlFNDwfpI&ab_channel=GrimsbyTownF.C.

Thanks arry but I just can not listen to the same old excuses anymore.

I know they will not sack him yet I just hope the new board see the light before it's too late.

Unless I wasn't listening closely enough he seemed surprised that Wrexham came more into the game by attacking

Just a view from a Wrexham fan - Wasnt much in it were still shite in MF and needs adressing in the next week if we want any chance of going up.

You looked a team lacking in confidence and belief. Both teams missed decent chances 1 of ours was abysmal (Wait for the highlights) but our GK is the best in League and for me and thats why we won.

I thought Mcatee and the lad you brought off was decent but small margins in this depressing league. Only takes a run off 3 games and you back in it. Your definitely top 7 team and play offs are a lottery!

All the best

Quoted from Wxmwelsh85

Just a view from a Wrexham fan - Wasnt much in it were still shite in MF and needs adressing in the next week if we want any chance of going up.

You looked a team lacking in confidence and belief. Both teams missed decent chances 1 of ours was abysmal (Wait for the highlights) but our GK is the best in League and for me and thats why we won.

I thought Mcatee and the lad you brought off was decent but small margins in this depressing league. Only takes a run off 3 games and you back in it. Your definitely top 7 team and play offs are a lottery!

All the best

A shred of positivity in there, cling on to anything at the moment

Thought I wouldn't be doing this one but now snuggled up in a Chester hotel.
Didn't play good, didn't play bad but nul points.
Things need to change rapidly but I really can't see it happening.
Lower half finish for me and much the same next season after being promised the world again.

Thanks Barralad, you give me hope with your description of the game and the new lad. Also good to hear from a Wrexham supporter, I still think all is not lost and that’s also why our new owners won’t sack Hursty yet. UTM!

Quoted from ska face

There’s a line in that interview which I think is quite telling. When asked about ‘going for it’ he says “well when should you go for it? If you go for it from the 46th minute you might go 2 down and then it’s game over”.

Sums him up for me, and think that was a more honest assessment of his way of thinking than the confected lines about being an optimist one end and pessimist the other. Yes please, from the 46th minute. Maybe even earlier if you’re feeling adventurous.

That’s what Hurst, and a succession of previous managers (and boards) just don’t get. Fans would rather lose 2-0 going for it than lose 1-0 with a steady performance hoping to nick one. Who knows, got for it and you might win 2,3,4-1, nobody’ll complain about the team openly trying to win a match.

The thing is he wouldn’t dream of letting his team ‘ Go for it ‘ against any of the lower spending teams in this league either .
He had to go now , accepting out form is an absolute joke for a club out size in this league.
I don’t think out chairmen have the minerals either to be honest as they seem more interested in pies and the club badge then winning games

All these teams keep telling us we will be up there despite us not beating them which is usually a good sign but I can't see it anymore.

It's about time Pragmatic Paul takes some risks because pragmatism isn't winning us anywhere near enough games.

Quoted from ska face

That’s what Hurst, and a succession of previous managers (and boards) just don’t get. Fans would rather lose 2-0 going for it than lose 1-0 with a steady performance hoping to nick one. Who knows, got for it and you might win 2,3,4-1, nobody’ll complain about the team openly trying to win a match.

I know what you’re saying, but knowing Town fans I don’t actually think that’s true. People always say it’s a results business and it is….if we’d have lost by two instead of one, I can’t see anyone for a second coming out with “at least we tried to attack them.” They’d be more drunk off than everyone already is. And if we nicked a draw, people would, naturally, be a bit happier than they are today!

By the sounds of it, we did attack them in the second half. Problem is we’re crap in the final third.

Quoted from ska face

There’s a line in that interview which I think is quite telling. When asked about ‘going for it’ he says “well when should you go for it? If you go for it from the 46th minute you might go 2 down and then it’s game over”.

Sums him up for me, and think that was a more honest assessment of his way of thinking than the confected lines about being an optimist one end and pessimist the other. Yes please, from the 46th minute. Maybe even earlier if you’re feeling adventurous.

That’s what Hurst, and a succession of previous managers (and boards) just don’t get. Fans would rather lose 2-0 going for it than lose 1-0 with a steady performance hoping to nick one. Who knows, got for it and you might win 2,3,4-1, nobody’ll complain about the team openly trying to win a match.

If there's one thing Hurst dislikes more than going for it too early, it's being asked about why he didn't go for it earlier. He's so stubborn that JT asking those questions has now probably condemned us to more of this.

That part of the interview was indeed very telling. It was almost as though the questioning of the lack substitutions was the first time it was being considered as an option by him. "Bring another attacking option on earlier than the 89th minute? Absolute madness, John."

I still think he should be given longer in the job, however that's back to back defeats that he has to shoulder the blame for in my opinion and it's becoming increasingly difficult to stick up for him. His lack of attacking substitutions can't be defended. He's taken attacking width off in both of the last two matches in favour of central midfielders. It makes no sense. He's brought Max Wright on for more then ten mins on three occasions in the past few weeks and he's caused problems and we've scored in two of those three. I cannot fathom what is going on in Hurst's head to discount bringing Wright on last night and vs Bromley (earlier than 87mins or whenever he came on). The icing on the cake was bringing Lenny on in the 89th minute. If I didn't believe Hurst cared then I'd suggest that he's taking the piss with that as it's at best a token substitution.

Probably going to get pelted for this, but I think most managers in most divisions will probably say the same as Hurst i.e. at 1-0 down, we're not going to attack from the 46th minute and risk going 2-0 down early in the second half.

Some managers may take that risk — and maybe that's an easier risk to take if you're near the top of the league and in good form, because even if you go 2-0 down your players are probably still believing they can get something from the game.

Unfortunately we're no longer in that position. We're on a very poor run, we can't score goals and so Hurst is going to be more risk-averse than ever.

I think his biggest mistake was not going for it earlier against Bromley at 1-1. Our morale should've been up at half time in that game — having won against Altrincham and played much better than Bromley in that first half. That's where the damage was done.

Instead we went into the Wrexham game on the back foot, on our heels, not believing we can turn things round after being in front and losing on Saturday. Psychologically we're in a hole.

I haven't seen us get outplayed. Wrexham weren't all that. Bromley nothing special. It feels like we need a psychologist, not a new team. And obviously it might help if we had Clifton instead of Smith playing right back, and tried Sousa and Wright out wide, with McAtee central, and Fox and Raikhy behind.

He's got a decent squad together. Bit baffled by some of the signings (as always, even in the summer, some felt like a waste). Not sure we'll see much of Burgess. Get the feeling he'll do nothing and be released in May.

Anyway, it's all a bit of a mess at the moment and it's like Hurst can't see clearly any more. Feels like he's drowning, over-thinking, confused. Always remember Alan Hansen on MOTD saying, when your team is in bad form, play your best players in their best positions. Don't over-complicate it.

Buckley used to do repetitive drills in the week so that when it came to match day, everything felt natural. No idea how Hurst works — I'm sure he's got his own methods — he just comes across as a bloke that needs to stand back and look at the bigger picture, rather than get lost in the nuances.

If our form improves and our confidence is up, I reckon he makes subs earlier and is more attacking with his line-up. When you've won three on the trot it doesn't matter so much if you mess up in the next game.

When you've lost 11 of your past 14 games then obviously a matters a lot if you mess up at home to Wealdstone. I'd love us to play them off the park and win 4-0 but if we do win I reckon it'll be an edgy 1-0.

Hurst won’t take that risk because he knows as we do that in the final third we are lacking. Fans from the opposition also see this, we are not a bad side, in fact we give just about everyone a tough game, we just don’t have an out and out finisher…..

When have we really made a goalkeeper work though? Maybe a 10-minute spell here or there but most keepers have a very quiet day against us.

It’s not (just) lacking a finisher that’s the problem, it’s the whole approach to attacking across the entire team.  

I feel like this 'whole approach to attacking' is a regular theme with this club

We have a splurt and then nothing!

I mean they train everyday and surely they bang in plenty of goals in training / practice etc

What is it that happens to them on a matchday?!?!

To add another perspective, we were talking to some Wrexham fans in a pub after the game. They thought we were unlucky not to take a point from the game, as three of them thought the ball had crossed the line during that scramble in the second half, and two of them were sat right behind the goal. one of them said that if we had played the first half like we did in the second half, it could have been a different outcome. But once again the curse of ex-Town player comes back to haunt us.

Quoted from Mariner Timsky

I feel like this 'whole approach to attacking' is a regular theme with this club

We have a splurt and then nothing!

I mean they train everyday and surely they bang in plenty of goals in training / practice etc

What is it that happens to them on a matchday?!?!

Of course they score in training, they’re playing against our defence!

Quoted from ska face

When have we really made a goalkeeper work though? Maybe a 10-minute spell here or there but most keepers have a very quiet day against us.

It’s not (just) lacking a finisher that’s the problem, it’s the whole approach to attacking across the entire team.  

Exactly this!  

By admission I've only seen Palmer's goal and then the miss from Abrahams of Tuesdays game, but since about mid-October we've created sod all really.  The odd splutter here and there, can only really remember us going for it against Halifax at home in the second half.  

Abrahams miss was terrible.  But that's absolutely what you get at this level.  It's not about if he's a loan signing or a £300k signing, you don't get someone who takes every chance in fifth tier football.  So the idea surely is that you create a glut of chances, it's a hedging of your bets approach.  How many actual chances have we created in these games?

It's of mild comfort that we're not getting turned over by anyone and there are clearly fine margins between losing, drawing and winning at the minute.  But what are we doing to narrow those margins?

Reading the post-match comments, we came into it when we got McAtee involved.  That's not really something new for this season, he's integral to everything we do.  But we can't rely solely on him.  He's one man and we've seen so many times in recent years that it's quite easy to snuff out the threat from one player, which is made even worse when the other 9 outfield players don't take advantage of that space.

The balance is completely wrong.  The back four isn't going to create chances (not without Efete involved), the midfield might as well be part of a back six because they sit so deep.  That then leaves the wingers who either aren't actual wingers or struggle to find an end product. McAtee is either usually trying to find something from all over the pitch or double up on so you've got Taylor who's completely isolated.

It needs a massive shake-up because this isn't working.  A back four as rigid as ours isn't enough if the midfield offers so little going forward.  We either need to be bold and go for an extra man in midfield/attack or find a midfielder who is capable of moving over the halfway line.  

Quoted from diehardmariner

Exactly this!  

By admission I've only seen Palmer's goal and then the miss from Abrahams of Tuesdays game, but since about mid-October we've created sod all really.  The odd splutter here and there, can only really remember us going for it against Halifax at home in the second half.  

Abrahams miss was terrible.  But that's absolutely what you get at this level.  It's not about if he's a loan signing or a £300k signing, you don't get someone who takes every chance in fifth tier football.  So the idea surely is that you create a glut of chances, it's a hedging of your bets approach.  How many actual chances have we created in these games?

It's of mild comfort that we're not getting turned over by anyone and there are clearly fine margins between losing, drawing and winning at the minute.  But what are we doing to narrow those margins?

Reading the post-match comments, we came into it when we got McAtee involved.  That's not really something new for this season, he's integral to everything we do.  But we can't rely solely on him.  He's one man and we've seen so many times in recent years that it's quite easy to snuff out the threat from one player, which is made even worse when the other 9 outfield players don't take advantage of that space.

The balance is completely wrong.  The back four isn't going to create chances (not without Efete involved), the midfield might as well be part of a back six because they sit so deep.  That then leaves the wingers who either aren't actual wingers or struggle to find an end product. McAtee is either usually trying to find something from all over the pitch or double up on so you've got Taylor who's completely isolated.

It needs a massive shake-up because this isn't working.  A back four as rigid as ours isn't enough if the midfield offers so little going forward.  We either need to be bold and go for an extra man in midfield/attack or find a midfielder who is capable of moving over the halfway line.  

We've got ln Clifton, just needs proper coaching

I like Clifton and I've no doubt he would be a less defence minded option than Fox and Coke, that pairing is too negative.  Put Clifton in there with one of them and it's less unbalanced straight away.

But Clifton still isn't an attacking midfielder to my eyes.  At best he could be one who is developed into running beyond the strikers, in a Craig Disley/Shaun Cunnington style, but that's not his game at the minute.  You say he would need coaching, therefore we haven't one at the minute.  By all means, let's coach Clifton to become that type of midfielder.  His energy and athleticism would be wasted otherwise, but until he's given that encouragement and coaching we're without anyone from midfield who's going to make an impact at all.

Clifton is simply not good enough and repeatedly when he plays on the left hand side of midfield the attacking moves break down, as he either fails to control the ball and see a pass quickly enough or he wastes time having to switch the ball to his stronger foot.

Really would like this lad to succeed as he gives his all every game and clearly loves the club but I am still unsure where his best position is but it isn’t on the left of midfield, IMO.