Hurst, Stay or Go??

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

There may be a longer-term project off the field, but there won't be one on it. Tier 5 football does not lend itself to a long term playing project - the good players are anxious to play in the EFL, managers and players come and go like on a merry go round and fans will not wait patiently till a long term playing project reaps dividends and in any event our players are all on short term contracts, even the good ones.

Hurst has a lot of advantages as laid out by another poster, but the board must realise if you won't pay for the best players then you are likely to be amongst the also-rans.

If the long term playing project is to give Hurst as many windows as possible to eventually come up with the correct cheapish formula that is pure Fentyism.

What is the plan exactly? A plan would have been to build on the great start, the massively increased income from the gates and got better players in while we were flying. I would imagine it is a lot easier to get good players when you are top of the league than when you have won 2 in 14 games.  

Incoming red crosses for talking sense.

I voted go but I know he wont.

Quoted from Bigdog

He won't get sacked. Not in the board's DNA. He should be shown the door though. Starting to hate JS coming out with the "long term project line". Hurst is very much part of it. Cynic in me thinks that this long term project phrase always get rolled out by any organisation that wants to buy time and make out the solution is harder than it really is because they don't know how to fix it quickly (promotion) or they haven't got the required cash to fund it. Shite as it was under Fenty, the club was self-sustainable had a "competitive budget", and I haven't heard anything to the contrary from JS. The aim still self-sustainable and we've still got a "competitive budget". We've had the nice new half-time food and the grass is a lot better at Cheapside and BP, but everything else seems the same. Six years from now of Hurstball in the National League before promotion at a relatively unchanged decrepit BP? This feels the same as when he arrived from Boston. Not what I was hoping for a year ago tbh.

Hurst with his abject record should go, he just doesn't seem to have that winning mentality anymore, and our board should be looking at ways to accelerate their long term project into a short or medium term one. We've suffered enough these past two decades, we can't afford the best part of another one before we see really significant change..

Wow. Such a short memory and unbelievable lack of gratitude for people spending millions of their own money to improve not just the football club but the whole town. Sod it let’s just get Alex May in to steal money from grannies and splash it on overpriced journeymen in the hope that with a stroke of luck we get some good ones. Don’t develop anything for the future because it’s sh1t or bust and even if we get back in the league we’ll eventually drop out because the infrastructure is knackered.

For me, this is a more nuanced question than can be answered with a binary ‘stay or go’. We’re yet to properly see the cut of the new board’s jib when it comes to aggression and ambition in terms of the procurement of key personnel, and ultimately any succession plan is equally as important as the decision to sack the current manager.

We were evidently caught short by Michael Jolley’s resignation in 2019, didn’t appoint a manager for weeks and then bumbled our way into Fenty’s master plan to bring Ian Holloway to the club.

Without sounding defeatist, I don’t think the current environment is an easy one. We know that few managers get promoted from this division without at least a few years’ non-league experience under their belts. I think only Graham Alexander bucks that trend in recent times, and he was very well backed financially by Salford.

Realistically then, you’d want to appoint someone who’s either got recent, previous experience of promotion from the National League on their CV or someone who’s been consistently doing a sound job in this division on a smaller budget than they would be afforded at Town.

In terms of the former, having done a casual check I can’t think of anyone who is currently out of work, so short of an oversight on my part the easy options aren’t really there.

If we’re going down the second route, then Pete Wild at Halifax and Luke Garrard at Boreham Wood are about your best bets. You could possibly add Dagenham’s Daryl McMahon to that list at a push. All young, aspiring managers with good non-league pedigree, but the question has to be ‘can we attract them’?

On the surface, you can argue that a club like GTFC should have no problem poaching managers from the likes of Halifax and Boreham Wood, but the reality is that we are where and what we are; below them in the football pyramid and a graveyard for managerial careers. History and fan base means little at this time, underlined by the fact that we’d have no chance at all in attracting managers from the likes of Harrogate and Sutton as we stand today.

Ultimately, the only answer to that is to throw money at it. That’s what Stockport did to attract Dave Challinor to their club, presumably both in terms of salary and tools to do the job, and they’ve subsequently climbed the league in absolutely no time at all and now find themselves in touching distance of top spot.

Do we have the cojones to do something like that? I’m yet to be convinced that we do if I’m absolutely brutally honest.

So yeah, that’s it for me. To answer the question, I’d want to know how big we’d be prepared to go on a replacement. If we’re going to be fishing from the pond of unemployed has-beens and never-have-beens then I wonder if it’s a case of ‘better the devil you know’. If we’re going to be meaningfully more ambitious than that, I’d like to know why we haven’t shown that ambition in our transfer business to date (no number 9 for six months, not extending Hunt’s loan deal etc).

A lot of questions to be asked, but few have straightforward, binary answers, in my opinion.

Quoted from Vance Warner

Wow. Such a short memory and unbelievable lack of gratitude for people spending millions of their own money to improve not just the football club but the whole town. Sod it let’s just get Alex May in to steal money from grannies and splash it on overpriced journeymen in the hope that with a stroke of luck we get some good ones. Don’t develop anything for the future because it’s sh1t or bust and even if we get back in the league we’ll eventually drop out because the infrastructure is knackered.

I don't live in Grimsby anymore moving away due to work so I must have missed it but what millions of their own money have they spent on improving the whole Town?

Also what infrastructure is knackered as the new owners have said that moving to a new ground is no longer a priority?

Quoted from Poojah

For me, this is a more nuanced question than can be answered with a binary ‘stay or go’. We’re yet to properly see the cut of the new board’s jib when it comes to aggression and ambition in terms of the procurement of key personnel, and ultimately any succession plan is equally as important as the decision to sack the current manager.

We were evidently caught short by Michael Jolley’s resignation in 2019, didn’t appoint a manager for weeks and then bumbled our way into Fenty’s master plan to bring Ian Holloway to the club.

Without sounding defeatist, I don’t think the current environment is an easy one. We know that few managers get promoted from this division without at least a few years’ non-league experience under their belts. I think only Graham Alexander bucks that trend in recent times, and he was very well backed financially by Salford.

Realistically then, you’d want to appoint someone who’s either got recent, previous experience of promotion from the National League on their CV or someone who’s been consistently doing a sound job in this division on a smaller budget than they would be afforded at Town.

In terms of the former, having done a casual check I can’t think of anyone who is currently out of work, so short of an oversight on my part the easy options aren’t really there.

If we’re going down the second route, then Pete Wild at Halifax and Luke Garrard at Boreham Wood are about your best bets. You could possibly add Dagenham’s Daryl McMahon to that list at a push. All young, aspiring managers with good non-league pedigree, but the question has to be ‘can we attract them’?

On the surface, you can argue that a club like GTFC should have no problem poaching managers from the likes of Halifax and Boreham Wood, but the reality is that we are where and what we are; below them in the football pyramid and a graveyard for managerial careers. History and fan base means little at this time, underlined by the fact that we’d have no chance at all in attracting managers from the likes of Harrogate and Sutton as we stand today.

Ultimately, the only answer to that is to throw money at it. That’s what Stockport did to attract Dave Challinor to their club, presumably both in terms of salary and tools to do the job, and they’ve subsequently climbed the league in absolutely no time at all and now find themselves in touching distance of top spot.

Do we have the cojones to do something like that? I’m yet to be convinced that we do if I’m absolutely brutally honest.

So yeah, that’s it for me. To answer the question, I’d want to know how big we’d be prepared to go on a replacement. If we’re going to be fishing from the pond of unemployed has-beens and never-have-beens then I wonder if it’s a case of ‘better the devil you know’. If we’re going to be meaningfully more ambitious than that, I’d like to know why we haven’t shown that ambition in our transfer business to date (no number 9 for six months, not extending Hunt’s loan deal etc).

A lot of questions to be asked, but few have straightforward, binary answers, in my opinion.

All I want is a binary answer ffs

Quoted from Poojah

For me, this is a more nuanced question than can be answered with a binary ‘stay or go’. We’re yet to properly see the cut of the new board’s jib when it comes to aggression and ambition in terms of the procurement of key personnel, and ultimately any succession plan is equally as important as the decision to sack the current manager.

We were evidently caught short by Michael Jolley’s resignation in 2019, didn’t appoint a manager for weeks and then bumbled our way into Fenty’s master plan to bring Ian Holloway to the club.

Without sounding defeatist, I don’t think the current environment is an easy one. We know that few managers get promoted from this division without at least a few years’ non-league experience under their belts. I think only Graham Alexander bucks that trend in recent times, and he was very well backed financially by Salford.

Realistically then, you’d want to appoint someone who’s either got recent, previous experience of promotion from the National League on their CV or someone who’s been consistently doing a sound job in this division on a smaller budget than they would be afforded at Town.

In terms of the former, having done a casual check I can’t think of anyone who is currently out of work, so short of an oversight on my part the easy options aren’t really there.

If we’re going down the second route, then Pete Wild at Halifax and Luke Garrard at Boreham Wood are about your best bets. You could possibly add Dagenham’s Daryl McMahon to that list at a push. All young, aspiring managers with good non-league pedigree, but the question has to be ‘can we attract them’?

On the surface, you can argue that a club like GTFC should have no problem poaching managers from the likes of Halifax and Boreham Wood, but the reality is that we are where and what we are; below them in the football pyramid and a graveyard for managerial careers. History and fan base means little at this time, underlined by the fact that we’d have no chance at all in attracting managers from the likes of Harrogate and Sutton as we stand today.

Ultimately, the only answer to that is to throw money at it. That’s what Stockport did to attract Dave Challinor to their club, presumably both in terms of salary and tools to do the job, and they’ve subsequently climbed the league in absolutely no time at all and now find themselves in touching distance of top spot.

Do we have the cojones to do something like that? I’m yet to be convinced that we do if I’m absolutely brutally honest.

So yeah, that’s it for me. To answer the question, I’d want to know how big we’d be prepared to go on a replacement. If we’re going to be fishing from the pond of unemployed has-beens and never-have-beens then I wonder if it’s a case of ‘better the devil you know’. If we’re going to be meaningfully more ambitious than that, I’d like to know why we haven’t shown that ambition in our transfer business to date (no number 9 for six months, not extending Hunt’s loan deal etc).

A lot of questions to be asked, but few have straightforward, binary answers, in my opinion.

You also forgot to mention that any new manager will have to be vetted and deemed suitably aligned to the values of the owners.

Quoted from Poojah

For me, this is a more nuanced question than can be answered with a binary ‘stay or go’. We’re yet to properly see the cut of the new board’s jib when it comes to aggression and ambition in terms of the procurement of key personnel, and ultimately any succession plan is equally as important as the decision to sack the current manager.

We were evidently caught short by Michael Jolley’s resignation in 2019, didn’t appoint a manager for weeks and then bumbled our way into Fenty’s master plan to bring Ian Holloway to the club.

Without sounding defeatist, I don’t think the current environment is an easy one. We know that few managers get promoted from this division without at least a few years’ non-league experience under their belts. I think only Graham Alexander bucks that trend in recent times, and he was very well backed financially by Salford.

Realistically then, you’d want to appoint someone who’s either got recent, previous experience of promotion from the National League on their CV or someone who’s been consistently doing a sound job in this division on a smaller budget than they would be afforded at Town.

In terms of the former, having done a casual check I can’t think of anyone who is currently out of work, so short of an oversight on my part the easy options aren’t really there.

If we’re going down the second route, then Pete Wild at Halifax and Luke Garrard at Boreham Wood are about your best bets. You could possibly add Dagenham’s Daryl McMahon to that list at a push. All young, aspiring managers with good non-league pedigree, but the question has to be ‘can we attract them’?

On the surface, you can argue that a club like GTFC should have no problem poaching managers from the likes of Halifax and Boreham Wood, but the reality is that we are where and what we are; below them in the football pyramid and a graveyard for managerial careers. History and fan base means little at this time, underlined by the fact that we’d have no chance at all in attracting managers from the likes of Harrogate and Sutton as we stand today.

Ultimately, the only answer to that is to throw money at it. That’s what Stockport did to attract Dave Challinor to their club, presumably both in terms of salary and tools to do the job, and they’ve subsequently climbed the league in absolutely no time at all and now find themselves in touching distance of top spot.

Do we have the cojones to do something like that? I’m yet to be convinced that we do if I’m absolutely brutally honest.

So yeah, that’s it for me. To answer the question, I’d want to know how big we’d be prepared to go on a replacement. If we’re going to be fishing from the pond of unemployed has-beens and never-have-beens then I wonder if it’s a case of ‘better the devil you know’. If we’re going to be meaningfully more ambitious than that, I’d like to know why we haven’t shown that ambition in our transfer business to date (no number 9 for six months, not extending Hunt’s loan deal etc).

A lot of questions to be asked, but few have straightforward, binary answers, in my opinion.

He also had location on his side.

We have recently let two players go who let it be known they were not settled here and I imagine it also precludes us from quite a few signings in the first place.

The antidote to that is to throw money at them, but we would be paying a premium for players, whereas other managers around bigger cities can get the same standard of player cheaper, or better standard for the same amount as we would be paying, if that makes sense.

There are a lot of unfashionable teams in this league that most supporters think we should be beating because we have more fans and have been in the upper echelons at certain points in our history, but these clubs are in favourable catchment areas, with vastly more players to choose from.

Part time clubs can give a player a good living if they play football at weekends and work in the city. They care not one jot for our history and crowd numbers when they come to BP. In fact they want to beat us even more than they do other sides.

I think it takes more time to assemble a good squad here than it does in the catchment area of a big city, especially if you are trying to attract younger, up and coming players. Older players with families like Pearson are not so bothered about this and are looking for different things. It's good around here for families with the Wolds, the beaches, the cheaper house prices etc, and we have a good few of those type players now and in the past, like Disley.

It's the younger, more dynamic players that teams need, who are harder to attract. We got McAtee purely because of Hurst, who has taken him to three clubs, but other players of his ability are going to have more exciting options in places where there is more life for a younger player.

I think given a bit more time, PH will put together a squad that can compete in this league. In fact, I think he is very close to it now. I said it in an earlier thread that I haven't yet seen a team demonstrably better than we are yet this season and that hasn't changed. Nobody is outplaying us and we are creating enough chances to win games.

It wouldn't take much for the pendulum to swing the other way.

Is it any wonder we are having a Hurst out poll?
FFS his record his abysmal and would not be tolerated at any other club.
The majority of fans couldn't stand his football and demeanour first time around. What's changed?
He acts as if his future is not on the line, probably because it isn't.
We have the players to achieve a play off spot, I'm sure of it. But NOT with Hurst at the helm. Hurst out!

Quoted from ginnywings

He also had location on his side.

We have recently let two players go who let it be known they were not settled here and I imagine it also precludes us from quite a few signings in the first place.

The antidote to that is to throw money at them, but we would be paying a premium for players, whereas other managers around bigger cities can get the same standard of player cheaper, or better standard for the same amount as we would be paying, if that makes sense.

There are a lot of unfashionable teams in this league that most supporters think we should be beating because we have more fans and have been in the upper echelons at certain points in our history, but these clubs are in favourable catchment areas, with vastly more players to choose from.

Part time clubs can give a player a good living if they play football at weekends and work in the city. They care not one jot for our history and crowd numbers when they come to BP. In fact they want to beat us even more than they do other sides.

I think it takes more time to assemble a good squad here than it does in the catchment area of a big city, especially if you are trying to attract younger, up and coming players. Older players with families like Pearson are not so bothered about this and are looking for different things. It's good around here for families with the Wolds, the beaches, the cheaper house prices etc, and we have a good few of those type players now and in the past, like Disley.

It's the younger, more dynamic players that teams need, who are harder to attract. We got McAtee purely because of Hurst, who has taken him to three clubs, but other players of his ability are going to have more exciting options in places where there is more life for a younger player.

I think given a bit more time, PH will put together a squad that can compete in this league. In fact, I think he is very close to it now. I said it in an earlier thread that I haven't yet seen a team demonstrably better than we are yet this season and that hasn't changed. Nobody is outplaying us and we are creating enough chances to win games.

It wouldn't take much for the pendulum to swing the other way.

For all that we’re supposed to be building for the future, we currently only have 5, maybe 6, under contract for next season.