Michael Jolley and the 3rd round of the Cups.

I was just thinking about the third round of the FA Cup which we got to 3 years ago against Crystal Palace and played 87 minutes with ten men. What a performance! Then remembered we played Chelsea in the League Cup (or whatever they call it these days) the following season and the delight when Green scored to make it 1-2. Also, that the pride in Grimsby was reflected in the applause for them at the end of the game. Both games had Michael Jolley as manager.

Add to that his amazing 10 game run at the end of 2018, which kept us up, and the sheer ecstasy when Town scored the wining goal against Notts County by Jamille Matt deep into injury time to secure our place in League Two. I feel his tenure has probably given us our best moments over the last four years.

What a shame he lost it with his barrage of swear words. I, for one, am very happy that he was with Town and gave us some great memories.

Keeping us up after Slade got rid of all the decent players was a miracle, and those two cup games were great days out. I was proud of the team and plenty of fans from other clubs commented on our exposure.

However, the style of play in that final season (narrow midfield and full backs expected to deliver crosses) made us very predictable, with far too many crosses from the half way line diagonally to Hanson. Whilst he would invariably win them, it was always with his back to goal, and sadly we rarely got in a cross from the by line for him to attack facing the direction of the goal. That style of play worked for the first half a dozen games, but once teams sussed us out, we had little alternative.

It’s a shame how it ended, but by then I can’t say I minded either way whether he continued in charge.

You could argue he got it wrong going man for man against Chelsea but we were probably going to get smashed that night whatever we did. I'd rather be there than not though.

I think Jolley is a decent short-term manager and his weaknesses were found out when the squad was truly his own. We got both Hanson and Green a few years too late and although I don't deny his budget was probably poor, he chose to spend it on a very small squad.

I think, other than Paul Hurst mkI, Michael Jolley is the only Town manager this side of the Millennium to have left the club in better shape than he found it when he arrived. That’s a sad fact, but also a reflection of what a good job he did, on balance, given the circus running the club at the time.

It’s a shame; just a couple of months prior to his departure Town were in the League Two play-off positions. You could at least see what he was trying to do - having tried to take the tippy-route, playing out from the back, the previous season and failed, he’d gone a little more route one with balls into the channels ready to pick out big James Hanson in the box. It was Sladeball, really, but Ahkeem Rose playing the role of Michael Reddy wasn’t quite the same. You need to consider the difference in budget between those two sides though, which must have been substantial.

We were always patchy under him though - spells of undefeated and winless runs following I’ve another like night follows day. However, I’d have been intrigued to see how he’s have done with a fair crack of the whip; with a decent budget, decent facilities and decent owners. Personally, I think he could have done something here under those circumstances, but I guess we’ll never know.

I’ll never forget the elation of that Jamille Matt goal against Notts County, or the optimism going into that 18/19 season. Jolley gave us more positive memories than most managers here have in many a year. I wish him well.

Adding on to getting spanked in the Chelsea FA Cup game was the sheer amazement being at Exeter a few days later and putting in an unbelievable performance to win 3-1. He may have done a few things wrong when he was here but we had some great days with him in charge too. Players he brought in like Obgu and the Swedish Centre back(his name escapes me) really played for him and played how he wanted to play

I think Jolley applied to much theoretical coaching from the coaching manuals and not enough practical experience from the games we played. I got the impression that he never fully grasped  that the players he was working with were from lower down the league pyramid.  

Quoted from jaygy

Adding on to getting spanked in the Chelsea FA Cup game was the sheer amazement being at Exeter a few days later and putting in an unbelievable performance to win 3-1. He may have done a few things wrong when he was here but we had some great days with him in charge too. Players he brought in like Obgu and the Swedish Centre back(his name escapes me) really played for him and played how he wanted to play

Ludvig! Who i really liked

See Ring is now playing for Wisla Krakow

Quoted from Poojah

I think, other than Paul Hurst mkI, Michael Jolley is the only Town manager this side of the Millennium to have left the club in better shape than he found it when he arrived. That’s a sad fact, but also a reflection of what a good job he did, on balance, given the circus running the club at the time.

It’s a shame; just a couple of months prior to his departure Town were in the League Two play-off positions. You could at least see what he was trying to do - having tried to take the tippy-route, playing out from the back, the previous season and failed, he’d gone a little more route one with balls into the channels ready to pick out big James Hanson in the box. It was Sladeball, really, but Ahkeem Rose playing the role of Michael Reddy wasn’t quite the same. You need to consider the difference in budget between those two sides though, which must have been substantial.

We were always patchy under him though - spells of undefeated and winless runs following I’ve another like night follows day. However, I’d have been intrigued to see how he’s have done with a fair crack of the whip; with a decent budget, decent facilities and decent owners. Personally, I think he could have done something here under those circumstances, but I guess we’ll never know.

I’ll never forget the elation of that Jamille Matt goal against Notts County, or the optimism going into that 18/19 season. Jolley gave us more positive memories than most managers here have in many a year. I wish him well.

Slade mk1 definitely left GTFC in better shape than he inherited.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Slade mk1 definitely left GTFC in better shape than he inherited.

Slade Mk II on the other hand...

Going through the managers I've experienced:

Alan Buckley Mk II - ✅
Lennie Lawrence - ❌
Paul Groves - ❌
Nicky Law - ❌
Russell Slade Mk I - ✅
Graham Rodger - ❌
Alan Buckley Mk III - ✅
Mike Newell - ❌
Neil Woods - ❌
Rob Scott & Paul Hurst - ✅
Paul Hurst Mk I- ✅
Marcus Bignot - ❌
Russell Slade Mk II - ❌
Michael Jolley - ✅
Ian Holloway - ❌
Paul Hurst Mk II - TBC but currently ❌

I don't think I've forgotten any but 16 managers since 1997!

Buckley Mk III was a tough one. The joint management of Rob Scott and Paul Hurst got into the play offs which was an improvement on 11th under Woods (finished by them) and then their own 11th placed finish.

He was a shocking manager, tactically possibly the most anti-football manager I can remember.
His time at Barrow also shows what a total crackpot he was.

First of all, I’d take issue with a couple of comments in above posts. The idea that Lennie Lawrence gets a red cross when he took us to the top of the championship, and victory over Liverpool at Anfield is, at best, harsh, and at worst, crackers, especially when you think of how cr@p the structure/budget of the club was in comparison to rivals.

Secondly, the notion that Michael Jolley was shocking tactically, and the most ‘anti football’ manager we’ve had I find ludicrous.
Jolley has the highest level UEFA coaching licence and can speak eloquently about the game, systems, strategy etc. He’d probably be better deployed working with top level players where his directions can actually be implemented by players who are technically capable of it.

I really liked Jolley. I really wanted him to do well. Articulate, honest and impressive, I thought he did brilliantly in that first half of his tenure, even though he had some bang average players, a poor budget and sub standard facilities. I was astounded by his tirade at RH. I just didn’t see him as that kind of character. Maybe he had a point in some of that, maybe he was way out of order, but he effectively sacked himself because of it. However, if we didn’t have Fenty and a particular ethos strangling the club, he’d have had a sporting chance. In reality, his hands were tied and he was never going to achieve anything here because of that. I see him as a real asset as an U23 coach at a top level club, more realistically.

Quoted from chaos33

First of all, I’d take issue with a couple of comments in above posts. The idea that Lennie Lawrence gets a red cross when he took us to the top of the championship, and victory over Liverpool at Anfield is, at best, harsh, and at worst, crackers, especially when you think of how cr@p the structure/budget of the club was in comparison to rivals.

The debate was about leaving us in a better shape than when they arrived so memories like Liverpool and being top of the Championship in the middle of it fall by the wayside. Paul Groves performed a miracle keeping that Lawrence squad up in 2002. I accept it's harsh but it's also hard to argue that we were worse when he left than when he came in; although I accept there are a lot of reasons for that.

AB III left us with Matt Heywood as captain, so he can't possibly have left us in better shape!

This thread is like a Soviet re writing of history. People on here were baying for him to get sacked and abused him to hell and back.

Yes there were a few good days, but a lot of bad ones. A long run of defeats that seemed never ending....

Quoted from MarinerRob

the sheer ecstasy when Town scored the wining goal against Notts County by Jamille Matt deep into extra time to secure our place in League Two.

Even though I wrote that I still get that highly emotional feeling remembering that. Close to the feeling when Nathan scored the third goal at Wembley.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

He was a shocking manager, tactically possibly the most anti-football manager I can remember.
His time at Barrow also shows what a total crackpot he was.

Anyone who’s ever been in a management role at a company would have met a Michael Jolley type. Talks a good game when it matters (in meetings and job interviews), but is in reality useless and a bullish!tter.

It says it all that Fenty never worked him out whilst the Barrow board took about a month to reaise what he was really like.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

but is in reality useless and a bullish!tter..

Where was he on the Runaway scale - no where near! Runaway took that to a whole new level.

Quoted from MarinerRob

Where was he on the Runaway scale - no where near! Runaway took that to a whole new level.

Personally I’m inclined to believe IH had a mental breakdown during COVID. Unfortunately he had been put in a bizarre position of total authority on all footballing matters and nobody realised. Well maybe his assistant did and that’s why IH sacked him.

Another manager who’s time here was beset with rumours about problems behind the scenes and just outright bullshít from some people. I can remember the rumour that he only got the job because of the involvement of his dad at boardroom level or something similar, this despite his dad being long dead in reality. Or the suggestion that he himself had basically paid for his own job through wealth accumulated on Wall St, even though he held a fairly junior role for a small period of time.

Rumours about groups of senior players not respecting him & ignoring his during training which, looking at who was in the squad at the time, I could fully believe. He did seem to ride on the back of 1 decent result against Malmo (was it?) for a few years mind, and don’t forget his rant came after getting humped 4-0 at home against Orient.

Did Jolley keep us up or was it a combination of a dramatic goal by Matt, Mitch Rose penalties and probably Macca' best season? Benefit of the doubt here as I think under Slade we'd have died on our backside before we inevitably dd.

One thing he did do when he arrived was to bring a bit of feelgood and positivity after the chaos of Bignot's cameo and the negativity of Slade. He was visible, approachable, open and seemed to bring fresh perspective.

On the pitch it was a bit mixed but it felt like he was doing what he could with what he had, he also brought in a few decent additions in Fox, RHJ, Embleton and Hess but the fact he had a Fenty budget meant he also had to settle for the likes of Hanson, Cook, Green and Welsh who all for different stories never made a telling impact.  

Before he left I think he realised the squad was actually weak and he went a bit negative as I think he'd put a lot of faith in playing to Hanson who just couldn't be relied on. Off the pitch you could see he was struggling as well especially in the media, his Mrs was also feeling the strain as she insisted on blocking anyone on twitter who dared to criticize.

I think some form of meltdown was inevitable and the volley of abuse he gave Matt Dean and John Tondour was pretty poor and I think it was unacceptable, I would love to know though who felt so what do they call it? "woke" that they had to leak it to the media.      

Clearly he has/has ambition but it always looked like he lacked a mentor though I'm led to believe that he was starting to build a relationship with Adkins who he could have learned some good stuff from. Maybe he needed to work for someone experienced in a bigger management structure and bide his time but as he has no playing career that kind of role is difficult to land.    

Not sure where he is now but I'd assume his proffessional career as a manager has now come to an end unless he's working in a developing nation somewhere.  

Quoted from ska face

Another manager who’s time here was beset with rumours about problems behind the scenes and just outright bullshít from some people. I can remember the rumour that he only got the job because of the involvement of his dad at boardroom level or something similar, this despite his dad being long dead in reality. Or the suggestion that he himself had basically paid for his own job through wealth accumulated on Wall St, even though he held a fairly junior role for a small period of time.

Rumours about groups of senior players not respecting him & ignoring his during training which, looking at who was in the squad at the time, I could fully believe. He did seem to ride on the back of 1 decent result against Malmo (was it?) for a few years mind, and don’t forget his rant came after getting humped 4-0 at home against Orient.

From what I understand (which of course could be rubbish), Jolley was not renowned for his man management skills. He made little to no attempt to cultivate any kind of relationships with his players and his PR skills did not translate to the dressing room.

I was also told that Fenty started looking for a new manager after we lost at home to Morecambe at the start of the 18/19 season (it was our 6th defeat on the bounce). Because we were playing Carlisle away on the Tuesday, he decided not to sack Jolley because a) he thought it would disrupt the build up with such short notice and b) he didn't think we'd actually win.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Did Jolley keep us up or was it a combination of a dramatic goal by Matt, Mitch Rose penalties and probably Macca' best season? Benefit of the doubt here as I think under Slade we'd have died on our backside before we inevitably dd.

One thing he did do when he arrived was to bring a bit of feelgood and positivity after the chaos of Bignot's cameo and the negativity of Slade. He was visible, approachable, open and seemed to bring fresh perspective.

On the pitch it was a bit mixed but it felt like he was doing what he could with what he had, he also brought in a few decent additions in Fox, RHJ, Embleton and Hess but the fact he had a Fenty budget meant he also had to settle for the likes of Hanson, Cook, Green and Welsh who all for different stories never made a telling impact.  

Before he left I think he realised the squad was actually weak and he went a bit negative as I think he'd put a lot of faith in playing to Hanson who just couldn't be relied on. Off the pitch you could see he was struggling as well especially in the media, his Mrs was also feeling the strain as she insisted on blocking anyone on twitter who dared to criticize.

I think some form of meltdown was inevitable and the volley of abuse he gave Matt Dean and John Tondour was pretty poor and I think it was unacceptable, I would love to know though who felt so what do they call it? "woke" that they had to leak it to the media.      

Clearly he has/has ambition but it always looked like he lacked a mentor though I'm led to believe that he was starting to build a relationship with Adkins who he could have learned some good stuff from. Maybe he needed to work for someone experienced in a bigger management structure and bide his time but as he has no playing career that kind of role is difficult to land.    

Not sure where he is now but I'd assume his proffessional career as a manager has now come to an end unless he's working in a developing nation somewhere.  

Oh no, not the Jolley kept us up myth again. When he was appointed we were 6 points clear of the relegation zone. We finished 5 points above Barnet in 23rd. He just maintained the gap he inherited more or less.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Did Jolley keep us up or was it a combination of a dramatic goal by Matt, Mitch Rose penalties and probably Macca' best season? Benefit of the doubt here as I think under Slade we'd have died on our backside before we inevitably dd.

One thing he did do when he arrived was to bring a bit of feelgood and positivity after the chaos of Bignot's cameo and the negativity of Slade. He was visible, approachable, open and seemed to bring fresh perspective.

On the pitch it was a bit mixed but it felt like he was doing what he could with what he had, he also brought in a few decent additions in Fox, RHJ, Embleton and Hess but the fact he had a Fenty budget meant he also had to settle for the likes of Hanson, Cook, Green and Welsh who all for different stories never made a telling impact.  

Before he left I think he realised the squad was actually weak and he went a bit negative as I think he'd put a lot of faith in playing to Hanson who just couldn't be relied on. Off the pitch you could see he was struggling as well especially in the media, his Mrs was also feeling the strain as she insisted on blocking anyone on twitter who dared to criticize.

I think some form of meltdown was inevitable and the volley of abuse he gave Matt Dean and John Tondour was pretty poor and I think it was unacceptable, I would love to know though who felt so what do they call it? "woke" that they had to leak it to the media.      

Clearly he has/has ambition but it always looked like he lacked a mentor though I'm led to believe that he was starting to build a relationship with Adkins who he could have learned some good stuff from. Maybe he needed to work for someone experienced in a bigger management structure and bide his time but as he has no playing career that kind of role is difficult to land.    

Not sure where he is now but I'd assume his proffessional career as a manager has now come to an end unless he's working in a developing nation somewhere.  

Can you explain how ‘woke’ comes into it as I’m baffled?

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Oh no, not the Jolley kept us up myth again. When he was appointed we were 6 points clear of the relegation zone. We finished 5 points above Barnet in 23rd. He just maintained the gap he inherited more or less.

But leading up to his appointment Town was in freefall with just 4 points from 48 to give that some context. As well as only 4 goals in those twelve matches,

I never believed Jolley kept us up, more helped us tread water and plugged a hole. In truth, he wasn’t much cop. We had some good days out and possibly, had he not come in we would’ve kept tumbling but we’ll never really know.

That 1-0 at Swindon was mega but also robbery but I don’t believe his tactical prowess was the reason we won, more players battling, experienced lads winning fouls and the likes and the naivety of youth working their gonads off.

Jolley was probably right about the nonsense off the pitch, as was Bignot but for me, both will hopefully just fade in to memory.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Oh no, not the Jolley kept us up myth again. When he was appointed we were 6 points clear of the relegation zone. We finished 5 points above Barnet in 23rd. He just maintained the gap he inherited more or less.

Our direction before he was appointed was one way only - relegation. He saved us that season, replacing Berrett (?) With clifton gave meant we weren't playing every game with effectively 10 men. He also identified that mitch rosehad a long throw that was quite useful, something slade hadn't deduced in about a year. In fact was mitch rose on pens before he arrived or was it hooper, I think it was. Yet rose probably had the consistently best penalty of any player I've ever seen for Town. That was how idle and lazy slade had become.

I actually think by the end jolley wa a poor manager, the movement under him was dreadful and I can well believe the rumour that even in possession players were told to mark the opposition. But he was still a big improvement on slade and kept us up that first season. Deserved to get sacked when he did tho and not a good manager, just not as woefully incompetent as slade mk2 who would have had us relegated.

Quoted from chaos33

First of all, I’d take issue with a couple of comments in above posts. The idea that Lennie Lawrence gets a red cross when he took us to the top of the championship, and victory over Liverpool at Anfield is, at best, harsh, and at worst, crackers, especially when you think of how cr@p the structure/budget of the club was in comparison to rivals.

Secondly, the notion that Michael Jolley was shocking tactically, and the most ‘anti football’ manager we’ve had I find ludicrous.
Jolley has the highest level UEFA coaching licence and can speak eloquently about the game, systems, strategy etc. He’d probably be better deployed working with top level players where his directions can actually be implemented by players who are technically capable of it.

I really liked Jolley. I really wanted him to do well. Articulate, honest and impressive, I thought he did brilliantly in that first half of his tenure, even though he had some bang average players, a poor budget and sub standard facilities. I was astounded by his tirade at RH. I just didn’t see him as that kind of character. Maybe he had a point in some of that, maybe he was way out of order, but he effectively sacked himself because of it. However, if we didn’t have Fenty and a particular ethos strangling the club, he’d have had a sporting chance. In reality, his hands were tied and he was never going to achieve anything here because of that. I see him as a real asset as an U23 coach at a top level club, more realistically.

I’m not usually one to call for a manager to go, but he was so tactically inept it was outrageous.

All the badges you can get and capable of talking absolute bullshit, but history will prove him to be completely flipping useless as a manager.

I knew someone that was excellent when it comes to test and exams but when it came to doing the physical work he was absolutely useless.  So great academically but useless when doing the practical work.

Quoted from chaos33

Can you explain how ‘woke’ comes into it as I’m baffled?

I didn’t think “woke” was just about racism I thought it was about generally calling out injustice, I’ve now seen a definition that says both ……. Maybe I should have just used the term whistle blower?

Right

Quoted from toontown

Our direction before he was appointed was one way only - relegation. He saved us that season, replacing Berrett (?) With clifton gave meant we weren't playing every game with effectively 10 men. He also identified that mitch rosehad a long throw that was quite useful, something slade hadn't deduced in about a year. In fact was mitch rose on pens before he arrived or was it hooper, I think it was. Yet rose probably had the consistently best penalty of any player I've ever seen for Town. That was how idle and lazy slade had become.

I actually think by the end jolley wa a poor manager, the movement under him was dreadful and I can well believe the rumour that even in possession players were told to mark the opposition. But he was still a big improvement on slade and kept us up that first season. Deserved to get sacked when he did tho and not a good manager, just not as woefully incompetent as slade mk2 who would have had us relegated.

I think this hits the nail on the head. There is no doubt that we were going down under Slade. No we weren't in the relegation spots yet but the team was just awful, I was at the last game at Crawley and just couldn't see how a team that bad would have any chance of staying up. We'd not won in two months having played 12 games, losing eight and only managing four goals whilst conceding 21. When Jolley came in it took a while before things started to turn around. However, just by doing the basics such as having some sort of shape and a vague plan, we managed to actually start competing and it eventually turned into enough points to keep us up. Yes there were some huge slices of luck such as the inexplicable handball by the Chesterfield defender and the "foul" on Harry Cardwell that wasn't anywhere near the penalty area but you only get these slices of luck if you're actually in the game, which we would never have been had Slade stayed.

That home game against Notts County we actually played very, very well and were significantly better than a team that almost got automatic promotion. Going in to the new season I was really optimistic about Jolley and our chances. He'd managed to get a tune out of a bunch of losers and implemented a simple but effective system that got the most out of the few strengths the squad had. If he could do that with a squad as bad as Slade had assembled, then surely he could do even better with his own signings? Wrong. He spent the entire pre-season preparing the team to play 3-5-2 without signing a single player capable of playing as a wing back. To say that this preparation and planning was a disaster would be an understatement, it is literally the basics of putting a team together to make sure that the players you have are capable of playing the system you want to play and if not then you find a system that they are capable of implementing. The first game at home to Forest Green was abysmal and it didn't get much better from there winning only one of the first ten games and losing seven. We also didn't really have a properly fit and decent centre forward for most of the first few months as Wes Thomas was signed very late in the transfer window and Louis Robles was complete shite. Throughout the season there were a couple of good spells but there was also large barren periods where we'd be winless for quite a while and we just never really got going.

The next season we started really well thanks in no small part to a purple patch of form for James Hanson. The first few games we were getting the ball forward and wide and whipping the ball in to Hanson who, despite being past his best, was still a beast in the air. Then all of a sudden it just stopped. We just started hoofing the ball forward aimlessly towards Hanson with no runners beyond on or people getting close to him to pick up any knock downs or second balls. Once teams worked out that putting two men on Hanson completely nullified our attack, we were finished. I can quite believe that the players were told to mark their opposite number when we had throw ins because the lack of any sort of movement or attacking structure was farcical. The only real blip in the poor run was away at Exeter who were flying where Hanson was dropped and a forward three of Rose, Wright and Ogbu caused major problems with direct running and balls into Ogbu's feet for people to play off. But showing once again that he never really understood how or why things did or didn't work, Hanson was back in for the next game and we were shite for the last three games before he left.

I think someone mentioned that Jolley lived off the win against Malmo and the video that he did about it. This result and the explanation, plus his qualifications, have led people to believe that he really knew his stuff but in reality there were many examples whilst managing us that would lead you to think he had very little clue tactically. That win against Malmo worked because although they were a bigger club with better players, they were still only playing in the Swedish top division and no offence to that league but it's awful so the standard wasn't particularly high. The idea behind it was that they went man for man marking other than one of the centre backs who was particularly poor on the ball and who would then gave it away as he tried to get further up the pitch and was then punished on the counter. And it worked a charm and the video is very well explained.

However, he then tried the same trick against  a Chelsea team where 6 of the starting 10 outfield players were in the match day squad that won the Champions League less than two years later as well as an England international in Ross Barkley and Pedro who has won literally everything there is to win in world football. Clearly the gulf in physical and technical ability between two teams in the Swedish top division was going to be much, much smaller than the huge gulf between L2 players and a team full of Champions League winners so nobody in their right mind would think that a Town player could go man for man against world class opposition and come out on top right? Well Jolley did and the result was we were annihilated. We had no shape, no structure and the defence parted like the Red Sea at times. Yes Town were always up against it facing that sort of opposition but the tactics or lack of them were laughable and embarrassing. It would also suggest that he didn't fully understand how or why it had worked against Malmo. Just as he didn't understand what personnel or characteristics it would require to successfully implement playing with wing backs or that if you have James Hanson in your team you need to get crosses in from high up the pitch for him to attack or to get runners off and around him if you're looking to play it direct.

He wasn't a bad bloke and he definitely stopped us from going down in 2018 but after that his management was generally poor bar the odd run of good form scattered amongst many long winless runs. His disastrous spell at Barrow and the fact he's only managed seven games in over two years are testament to the fact he wasn't really up to it.

Quoted from Abdul19

AB III left us with Matt Heywood as captain, so he can't possibly have left us in better shape!

As much as I love Alan he really had a bad run in his last spell. Failed to save us from the rot and signed some really rubbish players, he could argue he wasn't supported but I think he just lacked the knowledge and contacts in football that he had in the past. He'd also been out of management for a couple of years at that point so seemed a little out of his depth taking the job. The likes of Matt Heywood, Richard Hope, Chris Llewellyn, Jamie Clarke, Nathan Jarman who was overweight and not even fit when we signed him.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Slade Mk II on the other hand...

Going through the managers I've experienced:

Alan Buckley Mk II - ✅
Lennie Lawrence - ❌
Paul Groves - ❌
Nicky Law - ❌
Russell Slade Mk I - ✅
Graham Rodger - ❌
Alan Buckley Mk III - ✅
Mike Newell - ❌
Neil Woods - ❌
Rob Scott & Paul Hurst - ✅
Paul Hurst Mk I- ✅
Marcus Bignot - ❌
Russell Slade Mk II - ❌
Michael Jolley - ✅
Ian Holloway - ❌
Paul Hurst Mk II - TBC but currently ❌

I don't think I've forgotten any but 16 managers since 1997!

Buckley Mk III was a tough one. The joint management of Rob Scott and Paul Hurst got into the play offs which was an improvement on 11th under Woods (finished by them) and then their own 11th placed finish.

You're obviously around my age and I'd agree with all of that. Although, you have to sympathies with Lennie Lawrence. Screwed over with hardly any budget against teams with 5 times if not more of a wage bill than ours.. Plus I have to say he's given me the 2nd best ever experience following the Mariners.

For the Buckley Mk III spell, I seem to recall that he'd not even been to a match in the couple of years before he was offered the job! At least that's what I think I read somewhere! Lack of contacts and knowledge of players would have been sadly lacking. We did have some good runs during that spell but ultimately the signings weren't nearly good enough.

Regarding Jolley, I've heard that he was needlessly unpleasant to the non-playing staff at the club and so was widely disliked. Can't see any reason why he would need to take such an approach. Perhaps just not dealing with the stress of the job very well.

Quoted from lukeo

You're obviously around my age and I'd agree with all of that. Although, you have to sympathies with Lennie Lawrence. Screwed over with hardly any budget against teams with 5 times if not more of a wage bill than ours.. Plus I have to say he's given me the 2nd best ever experience following the Mariners.

I'm 32 so although I went before Buckley Mk II, it's all just a blur.

Lennie Lawrence is definitely on the harsh side and I agree there are mitigating circumstances there that meant he was never going to leave us in a better position.

Buckley Mk III was a very tough one too because you can definitely argue he left us in a worse state. He gave us Wembley in 2008 but left us with Heywood etc although we weren't going anywhere under the short management of Rodger that preceded him.

I don't think any of the others are really up for debate. I recall saying we were in freefall under Slade around Christmas when we were just outside the play offs. Fans of other clubs thought I was mad and whilst Jolley only did enough, it didn't look like Slade was going to do enough. The signings of Andrew Fox (rejected by Slade at the beginning of the season) and Gary McSheffrey were the only signings Jolley made to our hopeless team.

A lot of managers had disagreements with Fenty but Jolley has managed 3 clubs and had public disagreements with the board at all 3. There comes a point when you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself "Am I the problem?" and in the case of Jolley, it looks like he is.

Buckley MkIII - Very tough one to call.

He inherited something quite poor.  Yes a team that 5 months before had come within a blatant penalty away and a Marc Goodfellow open goal away from promotion, yet had been ripped apart over that summer. The core was gone and what remained was injured, mainly.

He did improve the side initially, Peter Till and Martin Paterson were great additions.  He blooded the likes of Danny North and Andy Taylor, pairing them up well with Gary Jones.  But he left us with a really, really poor squad.  I'd argue that he inherited a better team than he left with, although how much of that was down to budgets I don't know.  Heywood, Hope, Llewellyn were all quite poor summer signings.  Butler was a farce of a signing too, almost one last desperate throw of the dice that backfired.  The Wembley run masked an awful end to that season.

Really controversially, did Buckley Mk II leave us in a worse position than what he inherited?  Obviously there was a division of difference. Buckley returned in summer '97 with a side just relegated from the second flight, leaving three years later with a side in the second tier.

The side that he built during those three years, especially the first two years was fantastic, that's not up for debate.  But he did inherit a quite decent side to start with, definitely a strong nucleus.  The side relegated in 96/97 should never have even come close to going down.  Injury robbed it of its best defender and it never really replaced the leader in Paul Groves and goalkeeper in Paul Crichton.  But it still should have had enough to stay up.  Alas, it didn't.

But Buckley inherited a very good side, to the point that the defence wasn't added to for the whole of the promotion season (arguably Dave Smith playing the odd game there after his January signing).  McDermott, Handyside, Lever, Gallimore.  The defence that we got relegated with was the mainstay of the side that got promoted with very decent cup runs too.  

The sale of Oster and Mendonca was a blow but it gave Buckley a massive warchest that allowed him to bring in absolutely key additions like Aidan Davison, Groves, Kev Donovan and Lee Nogan.  Then later the likes of Smith and Wayne Burnett.  A decent squad with a sizeable transfer budget in place to use as he saw fit.  He also inherited a quite blossoming youth set-up that he utilised quite considerably in his first year, definitely in the second year.  Jack Lester had not long broken through whilst Daryl Clare and Danny Butterfield were on the edge of breaking through, Matty Bloomer and Ben Chapman too.  Whilst they had collective varying successes, it helped develop his squad.

When he left, the side was pretty poor and probably heading out that division.  Quite clearly there was some problems between him and the board and that was reflected in the sales of his main strikers (Lester and Ashcroft) with what appeared to be a lack of reinvestment.  That summer also saw the departure of Mark Lever who had become a bedrock of the side.  The likes of Burnett and Donovan failed to recapture the consistency, fitness and form of 1997/98, Groves was slowly coming to the end of his career and we had very, very little goal threat.  My stand out memory of the final stages of the final few months of his last full season was the loan signing of Mark Nicholls to solve the striking problem, ultimately he proved useless and the return of Daryl Clare to side was a major boost.  Yet this was Clare who ultimately went onto prove his natural ceiling was the National Conference.  That summed up just how toothless we had become.  The summer recruits of Michael Jeffrey and Paul Raven were downgrades (again probably reflected the budget) and ultimately meant that when Lennie Lawrence took over he inherited a quite poor, ageing squad that lacked any pace, power or physical presence.  Hence the mass recruitment from all four corners of the globe that followed.

I'm not sure when it happened but the final year or so under Buckley he seemed so reluctant to unleash the shackles.  Lester had large spells when he was on the bench when the game was crying out for him, Alan Pouton was sparingly used for large periods when he had the natural energy and spark that we lacked.

He kept us in the league with a bunch of dross. Better than Hursts efforts.
Shame the pressure got to him.