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| aldi_01 |
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Not bad to be fair, subtle…I always liked our old badge from way back when…
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| 'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza |
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 Hagrid |
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Gtfcjacko- an idiot on twitter
Drunken rants and tweets to the owners and debbie cook about the badge. Embarrasing
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| Poojah |
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It’s alright. A solid 6.5 out of 10, which is a comfortable improvement on what went before, and developed by a local company too which is nice.
Not sure about the font of choice, and some basic oversights in places but a distinct step in the right direction, so well done to all for that.
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| A smooth sea never made a skillful mariner. |
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| Abdul19 |
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rubbish we could of bought tishmonger for the $ spent on that
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| jimgtfc |
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Looks decent so far, strange that there’s a story on Jolley signing Luke Waterfall but I suppose there’ll be teething problems.
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| "Falls to Arnold... Arnold! That's it! Thats it! He's sealed it! Grimsby Town are back in the football league!!! Just a minute to go and Nathan Arnold makes it 3-1! Look at the scenes behind the goal! Look at the relief! The agony is finally over!!!"
John Tondeur - Wembley Stadium Sunday 15th May 2016 |
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| pen penfras |
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Website is better. The flag on the trawler looks awful.
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| LH |
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Website is a massive improvement but it was out of Town’s control previously so that’s one thing we can’t moan at them for. Typical Town to have a countdown until it’s launch and then it not be online for quarter of an hour though…
The badge is a bit like Japan and France changing their flags by slightly altering the colours.
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| DaleH |
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Am I missing something about the change of badge? It looks the same to me on the website.
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| Time to resurrect my Fishy signature again. So here goes.
"BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR" |
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| jamesgtfc |
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Am I missing something about the change of badge? It looks the same to me on the website.
Zoom in on the trawler. You may need to screenshot on your phone first but there is an 1878 flag that has been added which looks a bit pants in my opinion. |
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| ginnywings |
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If only the new website was announcing a new striker signing...
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Could we not have had 1878 on the side of the trawler rather than on a flag???
I don’t think it’s worth a weird internet rant about but er, it seems like a strange decision. Maybe it is a
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| RobDef1 |
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Happy with the website, badge is a bit naff though.
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| Codhead, socialist, recovered addict. |
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| aldi_01 |
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Controversially I’ve always thought our badge was a bit naff anyway and fans love something to moan about…
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| 'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza |
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| RobDef1 |
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Controversially I’ve always thought our badge was a bit naff anyway and fans love something to moan about…
To be fair I love our badge, always have. Just think its a bit of a junior addition. If you're gonna change it then change it, as someone said earlier if they'd put 1878 along the trawler that would have been better. And yes, I'm just moaning for the sake of it but I'm not that bothered to be honest. Cannot wait for games to get started again. |
| Codhead, socialist, recovered addict. |
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It would have been great to be presented with 3 options for Trust members to vote on.
1) New Option
2) 1878 on the Trawler
3) Stay the same
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| HertsGTFC |
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Gtfcjacko- an idiot on twitter
Drunken rants and tweets to the owners and debbie cook about the badge. Embarrasing
Not for the first time both on social media and in person..... I think the site is o.k. still a bit of work to do so that it pops up as the first choice on Google but that will come with time. Also when you click out of the ticketing system on the "main club site" option it takes you back to the old site. Towler is also still listed as a first team player as well, but overall it feels like an improvement and I'd imagine from a tech point of view it's much more fit for purpose and future proofed. As for the badge it looks o.k. and making a little change is no big deal in my view. |
| "Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  |
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Whatever floats your boat.
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I quite like the badge to be honest. There’s so many varients of the old one, like it says in the article there’s 4 different versions at blundell park itself, it might only be geeks like me that notice but it doesn’t exactly shout professionalism. The one at Cheapside behind where PH does his interviews annoys me the most, the stripes aren’t even equal! This one will be more transferable digitally so should be more uniformed.
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| "Falls to Arnold... Arnold! That's it! Thats it! He's sealed it! Grimsby Town are back in the football league!!! Just a minute to go and Nathan Arnold makes it 3-1! Look at the scenes behind the goal! Look at the relief! The agony is finally over!!!"
John Tondeur - Wembley Stadium Sunday 15th May 2016 |
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| DaleH |
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Oh yes seen it now. Nice addition
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| Time to resurrect my Fishy signature again. So here goes.
"BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR" |
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| Hagrid |
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Oh yes seen it now. Nice addition
Not sure on that. |
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| forza ivano |
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i'm a technophobe so can't comment on the new website, but i do like the fact that the content and mailing list is totally inhouse and that the work has been done by local business and Town fans
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| aldi_01 |
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When has a new website and badge ever got you three points on a Saturday…
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| 'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza |
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Website looks a fairly solid effort, be nice to have some stats presented against the players I always like that sort of thing, minutes played, goal ratios etc. Badge change is fairly innocuous to me, didn't even notice until it was pointed out to be be honest!
Do we know if the online shop is being upgraded next?
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Have to say I barely noticed it was new badge but the website looks ok
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| oochiad |
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I like the badge, everyone has a different opinion!
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| Chrisblor |
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I am literally not arsed they've got some lad in from Apple to tweak the badge (although i'm unsure how making it more "compositionally harmonious" will do anything like attracting new fans or improving the squad). I mean fine, whatever, it's got a flag on it now 🤷♂️
What I am arsed about is the new owners unilaterally deciding to launch a new badge without any fan consultation or transparency. It's pretentious 'we know best' behaviour, and there's absolutely no way they should be messing with the club's heritage without getting the fans on board and involving them throughout the entire process.
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I must be going senile, can't see any difference to the website or the badge  |
| All Town aren't we ..... UTM |
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| MarinerRob |
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Badge change is fairly innocuous to me, didn't even notice until it was pointed out to be be honest!
I agree with that as I had to search to see the change. I don't see the problem with the addition of the flag with 1878 on it and it reflects the new regime but is not in your face. What Andrew and Jason think about the whinging might make them see what a load of moaning minnies SOME of the Town fans are when things are not going right on the pitch. Is it really worth moaning on that? |
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| Chrisblor |
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I must be going senile, can't see any difference to the website or the badge
Here you go, from the designer, with the old and new versions side by side: Tweet 1477259232936443907 will appear here... |
| gary jones |
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| aldi_01 |
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I am literally not arsed they've got some lad in from Apple to tweak the badge (although i'm unsure how making it more "compositionally harmonious" will do anything like attracting new fans or improving the squad). I mean fine, whatever, it's got a flag on it now 🤷♂️
What I am arsed about is the new owners unilaterally deciding to launch a new badge without any fan consultation or transparency. It's pretentious 'we know best' behaviour, and there's absolutely no way they should be messing with the club's heritage without getting the fans on board and involving them throughout the entire process.
If the goons on Twitter and some of the comments made by fans on here in the last year are anything to go by they’ve done right just going ahead and doing it… |
| 'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza |
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| 4055 |
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What is different with website? Badge change took alot of thought 🤔 a flag on a trawler ffs.
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| MuddyWaters |
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I agree with that as I had to search to see the change. I don't see the problem with the addition of the flag with 1878 on it and it reflects the new regime but is not in your face.
What Andrew and Jason think about the whinging might make them see what a load of moaning minnies SOME of the Town fans are when things are not going right on the pitch. Is it really worth moaning on that?
You think that fans of other clubs don’t whinge? Okay. |
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| Simon |
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Here go go, from the designer, with the old and new versions side by side: Tweet 1477259232936443907 will appear here...
Many thanks |
| All Town aren't we ..... UTM |
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| ska face |
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I just don’t get why they’re unnecessarily burning through so much goodwill in certain sections of the fan base for what is an almost negligible issue.
Would’ve been so much easier to just say - given that this has been ongoing for a year now - that the badge is getting an update mainly for technical reasons. Dropping it today out of the blue is obviously going to get people’s backs up.
Nobody’s asking for a congress of soviets, but you can’t be in the Guardian lecturing clubs about heritage assets & club identity one week, then unilaterally changing your badge the next.
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| MuddyWaters |
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I just don’t get why they’re unnecessarily burning through so much goodwill in certain sections of the fan base for what is an almost negligible issue.
Would’ve been so much easier to just say - given that this has been ongoing for a year now - that the badge is getting an update mainly for technical reasons. Dropping it today out of the blue is obviously going to get people’s backs up.
Nobody’s asking for a congress of soviets, but you can’t be in the Guardian lecturing clubs about heritage assets & club identity one week, then unilaterally changing your badge the next.
Couldn’t agree more. Sticks two fingers up at anyone who spent good money on Christmas presents with old badges on. |
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| DB |
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Couldn’t agree more. Sticks two fingers up at anyone who spent good money on Christmas presents with old badges on.
They've got a lot of old stock to shift with those old badges on! |
| You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time |
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Arsed
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| "You should do what you love while you can" |
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| Swansea_Mariner |
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Here go go, from the designer, with the old and new versions side by side: Tweet 1477259232936443907 will appear here...
I'm not really that bothered but looking at those side by side I do think I prefer the old one. I prefer the way the banner is colour separate at the top, while the new one merges the elements. |
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Old one is better and sharper
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| WetFlannel |
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I actually like the subtle changes, looks crisper and more professional. Understand the idea of it being uniform too (there being a good number of versions), I even remember us having arguments here about whether there should be a full stop at the end…
Personally, and although I love the badge, I would’ve actually been interested in a completely new badge being created, perhaps one which reflects the town today (perhaps incorporating the Dock Tower as a symbol of our fishing heritage whilst acknowledging that we’re sadly not the fishing port of 50 years ago). But I know I’m in a strong minority there, so imo, a small change which looks more modern and creates uniformity is good.
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The font is the same as the Premier League shirt font from 1997/2007. [url] https://www.footyheadlines.com/2018/08/full-premier-league-kit-font-history.html[/url] Will they have needed dispensation for that? I have no idea who, if anybody owns that typeface. Like others have mentioned, an odd time to drop a new logo. Given that there was no prior warning and fan consultation. It just seems to go against all these principles that were laid out to fans in the early stages post takeover. The new website looks good though. Far cleaner user experience. |
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| arryarryarry |
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I'm not really that bothered but looking at those side by side I do think I prefer the old one.
I prefer the way the banner is colour separate at the top, while the new one merges the elements.
That's the way I view it, it looks like someone has forgotten to make the banner a separate part of the badge. Looks a bit naff. Also just viewing the new website on my phone there doesn't seem a simple way to reject all cookies like most sites. I can't be arsed to visit sites that don't give you that option. |
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| GollyGTFC |
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The font is the same as the Premier League shirt font from 1997/2007. [url] https://www.footyheadlines.com/2018/08/full-premier-league-kit-font-history.html[/url] Will they have needed dispensation for that? I have no idea who, if anybody owns that typeface. Like others have mentioned, an odd time to drop a new logo. Given that there was no prior warning and fan consultation. It just seems to go against all these principles that were laid out to fans in the early stages post takeover. The new website looks good though. Far cleaner user experience.
It's not the same. |
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| MarinerDevil |
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Website is nice and clean - definitely an improvement. Surprising that there was no consultation on a badge redesign - even it's just a refinement - especially when the club have committed to these principles outlined by Fair Game. Tweet 1477264714799493120 will appear here... |
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| MuddyWaters |
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Barley Wine Drinker Posts: 14,101
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The font is the same as the Premier League shirt font from 1997/2007. [url] https://www.footyheadlines.com/2018/08/full-premier-league-kit-font-history.html[/url] Will they have needed dispensation for that? I have no idea who, if anybody owns that typeface. Like others have mentioned, an odd time to drop a new logo. Given that there was no prior warning and fan consultation. It just seems to go against all these principles that were laid out to fans in the early stages post takeover. The new website looks good though. Far cleaner user experience.
Regards the typeface and having read the website, I would expect the designers know what they’re doing with the copyright. Regarding the consultation process, it seems to tally with the levels of communication and transparency which seem to be diminishing week by week. |
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| chipsandgravy |
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Regards the typeface and having read the website, I would expect the designers know what they’re doing with the copyright. Regarding the consultation process, it seems to tally with the levels of communication and transparency which seem to be diminishing week by week.
Jesus, bring back the football then you can have something rather more important to moan about. |
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| pen penfras |
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I actually like the subtle changes, looks crisper and more professional. Understand the idea of it being uniform too (there being a good number of versions), I even remember us having arguments here about whether there should be a full stop at the end…
It looks more modern and sleek if they'd done the redesign but left the flag off. I quite like the changes otherwise, although it is a little weird having the gaps under the banner in black and not white. The flag is ugly, egotistical and out of keeping with the badge. And as for this fair play malarky that we've signed up to, it's a bit of a shock to see a badge messed with out of nowhere when that's one of the things they specifically mention as being sacred. If they really wanted to put the date on, they could have put it on the banner bits that come down and it's not really affecting the heritage so much. |
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Jesus, bring back the football then you can have something rather more important to moan about.
Yep. Can’t wait. |
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| Manchester Mariner |
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Badges and websites.
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| "Lovelly stuff! not my words but the words of Shakin Stevens." |
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| Mayaman |
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Website is better. The flag on the trawler looks awful.
Yeah. The flag does look bad. They should have put '1878' on the hull of the boat. |
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| BlackandWhiteBarmy2 |
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So, my take on this is that people are making a mountain out of a molehill.
I don't particularly like the amended design and can't see why we couldn't have adopted just one of the versions that were being used already and just said thats the standard. I don't see the need for the change. If 1878 wish to be transparent then they should have mentioned the change, I don't think, however, that they needed to give the fans a say.
In the end, though, i'm not really bothered. Move on.
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| And when you fall back into the mud it hurts a lot.
No! None of it was true, none of those things we thought we could see existed at all.
All that was really there was still more misery
Emile Zola |
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| pen penfras |
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So, my take on this is that people are making a mountain out of a molehill.
I don't particularly like the amended design and can't see why we couldn't have adopted just one of the versions that were being used already and just said thats the standard. I don't see the need for the change. If 1878 wish to be transparent then they should have mentioned the change, I don't think, however, that they needed to give the fans a say.
In the end, though, i'm not really bothered. Move on.
They don't need to give the fans a say. But when that's what they stand for, it's a bit of a shock to have that appear unannounced. Modernising the badge isn't a big deal really, it has done that over the years anyway and is sensible. Bastardising a feature that's been there for about 50 years is not the same thing. I think our badge is one of the better ones in football and has aged very well with the tweaks over the years. |
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| oochiad |
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I don’t care, I’d just like us to win on Monday……
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| MuddyWaters |
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So, my take on this is that people are making a mountain out of a molehill.
I don't particularly like the amended design and can't see why we couldn't have adopted just one of the versions that were being used already and just said thats the standard. I don't see the need for the change. If 1878 wish to be transparent then they should have mentioned the change, I don't think, however, that they needed to give the fans a say.
In the end, though, i'm not really bothered. Move on.
It wouldn’t bother me other than they adopted the FairPlay principles regarding consultation regarding ‘crown jewels’. If you sign up to something, stick to it. |
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| sonofmadeleymariner |
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A website is a website, but not a fan of the new badge. It looks amateur and cheap now the flag looks forced into the spac, but that just my opinion
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| I don't mind Roy Keane making £60,000 a week. I was making the same when I was playing. The only difference was I was printing my own - Mickey Thomas
The area you are trying to protect at corners is the goal - Chris Kamara
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It wouldn’t bother me other than they adopted the FairPlay principles regarding consultation regarding ‘crown jewels’. If you sign up to something, stick to it.
The badge hasn't been changed though has it? It's been tweaked slightly and had all the anomalies ironed out. The way some people are going on you'd think it's totally unrecognisable from the various iterations of the same badge we've had over the last 50 years. |
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| GrimRob |
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I am literally not arsed they've got some lad in from Apple to tweak the badge (although i'm unsure how making it more "compositionally harmonious" will do anything like attracting new fans or improving the squad). I mean fine, whatever, it's got a flag on it now 🤷♂️
What I am arsed about is the new owners unilaterally deciding to launch a new badge without any fan consultation or transparency. It's pretentious 'we know best' behaviour, and there's absolutely no way they should be messing with the club's heritage without getting the fans on board and involving them throughout the entire process.
We change our kit literally every season. That's much more fundamental, or at least more visible, than the badge isn't it? |
| 'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
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| ginnywings |
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Yeah. The flag does look bad. They should have put '1878' on the hull of the boat.
I think the same. Other than that, not really fussed. |
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| blundellpork |
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Not a fan of the all black around the banner, nor the flag, but do think there is an improved sharpness and crispness to the design.
That said, I don’t think any club should unilaterally amend or redesign a club crest without fan consent.
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Why have they felt it necessary to intercourse with the badge?
Poorly judged and a pointless own goal.
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| TwoLeftFeet |
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Really surprised that the new owners have not consulted the fans over if a change is required with the badge or not.. personally I prefer the old version think the flag looks a bit naff..
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| Nelly GTFC |
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I'm glad we have our own unique website now, and I think the tweaks to the badge look okay.
Too many Victor Meldrews, moan about anything.
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| dapperz fun pub |
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Hardly changed I hope we didn’t pay for the changes
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| WHYWONTYOULETMESIGNUP |
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Its strange I didnt want it changed at all but have somehow just been left bothered that its barely been changed
Why is there an entire paragrapy about geometric shapes when its the same shape as the old one
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| Plankton |
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The new site is an improvement over the previous one, but it’s still not amazing and I’d expect a better outcome from a site overhaul. The mobile version of the site is poor and an afterthought which is lazy.
I work in this area so I might be overly critical, but I was really disappointed when I took my first look.
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| TheRealJohnLewis |
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The new site is an improvement over the previous one, but it’s still not amazing and I’d expect a better outcome from a site overhaul. The mobile version of the site is poor and an afterthought which is lazy.
I work in this area so I might be overly critical, but I was really disappointed when I took my first look.
Did you read the article? The site was designed for mobiles, so hardly an afterthought. |
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| Plankton |
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Did you read the article? The site was designed for mobiles, so hardly an afterthought.
Then it’s even worse than I thought as it not optimised for mobile very well at all. |
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| TheRealJohnLewis |
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Then it’s even worse than I thought as it not optimised for mobile very well at all.
I don't see the issue as it works perfect on mine. |
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| Swansea_Mariner |
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Then it’s even worse than I thought as it not optimised for mobile very well at all.
Seems to work fine on my mobile, but then again I'm not an expert. Their asking for feedback so its probably worth you giving a detailed technical response as this is your field as they'll likely have a snagging list. |
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Looks ok in mobile, I take it they’ll be a new App now?
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| "Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style |
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| Knut Anders Fosters Voles |
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I’m ambivalent on this one.
However, there appears to be quite a bit of negativity on the Fishy about the 1878 flag on the new club badge.
It might be advised to deconstruct the flag to the point where it is safe and won’t be considered a danger.
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| jamesgtfc |
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I see Jason and Kristine have both publicly apologised which is a refreshing change. The fact it was a board decision is concerning though as I'd expect our two fan representatives on the board to raise some questions. In fact, a rebrand of the badge, however small, is a project that the Trust should be leading.
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| GrimRob |
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Looks like a rethink is on the cards Tweet 1477352641772597250 will appear here... Tweet 1477352737604046856 will appear here... |
| 'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
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| Stadium |
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Really surprised that the new owners have not consulted the fans over if a change is required with the badge or not.. personally I prefer the old version think the flag looks a bit naff..
Tweet 1477352641772597250 will appear here... |
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| aldi_01 |
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I’m not sure what I love more, the melt down from fans over subtle changes to a badge or the fact the owners have come out and apologised…
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| 'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza |
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| forza ivano |
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Jason's 2 tweets tonight seem to have been received positively, so much better than a rambling forum post from our old anonymous non chair at 'half past malbec' as 1 tweeter described ot
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| aldi_01 |
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Jason's 2 tweets tonight seem to have been received positively, so much better than a rambling forum post from our old anonymous non chair at 'half past malbec' as 1 tweeter described ot
Careful…😉 |
| 'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza |
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| It Bites |
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Months of work to squash the badge and put a flag on the ship with 1878 in it ...... Jesus I'm in the wrong job
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| Stadium |
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Months of work to squash the badge and put a flag on the ship with 1878 in it ...... Jesus I'm in the wrong job
Think they were referring to the rebrand and associated works. |
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“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
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| It Bites |
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Think they were referring to the rebrand and associated works.
Yeah you're probably right . |
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| Bigdog |
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Very underwhelming as a rebrand goes. Expected much better from JS and AP if I'm being honest about it..Badge is a mess, a missed opportunity, and the website is marginally better but hardly cutting edge or a big stride forward now we're in 2022..
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| immariner |
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I don't think people are too mad about the badge redesign itself but more the fact that Jason Stockwood, in particular, has been an advocate of the Fair Game initiative but has somehow overlooked that one of their main aims, that heritage 'crown jewels', of which the club crest is one, shouldn't be amended without fan consultation. Which is right, it shouldn't be. I would hope that everyone would agree that this should be the case.
With that said, JS's tweets are full of humility and acknowledge that the club made a mistake and I respect that. Despite not being a fan of the flag addition, if the club think the badge needs to be amended slightly to be more digital friendly, whatever that actually means, then fine. A little 1878 flag isn't a hill I'm willing to die on simply to prevent change.
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| HertsGTFC |
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So I work in a business where we have various functions to make the business a real success including clinical, finance, product, marketing, operations, creative and legal.
There’s lots of stake holders and many more who are both financially & emotionally invested but it works really well because we let the experts who are trained & have the experience get on with their bit and it generally works.
So I get the bit about lack of consultation though personally I’m not that bothered but in terms of design I reckon it boils down to “you’ll please all of the people some of the time some of the people all of the time”.
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| "Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style |
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| MuddyWaters |
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So I work in a business where we have various functions to make the business a real success including clinical, finance, product, marketing, operations, creative and legal.
There’s lots of stake holders and many more who are both financially & emotionally invested but it works really well because we let the experts who are trained & have the experience get on with their bit and it generally works.
So I get the bit about lack of consultation though personally I’m not that bothered but in terms of design I reckon it boils down to “you’ll please all of the people some of the time some of the people all of the time”.
Design is always subjective. I’m a bit drunk off that the club has taken thousands of pounds in the club shop over Christmas for clothing that is now effectively out of date. |
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| HertsGTFC |
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Design is always subjective. I’m a bit drunk off that the club has taken thousands of pounds in the club shop over Christmas for clothing that is now effectively out of date.
I think that’s a fair point ….. but then again I’ve always had a problem with the club changing the shirts annually when many clubs do it every 2 years. I know it makes good money but feels like a bit of an issue if you need to kit your kids out and you’ve got limited resources. |
| "Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style |
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| promotion plaice |
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Get rid of the weird flag and simply put 1878 on the front of the trawler where the registration letters normally are, just a thought.  |
| When Leeds trainer Les Cocker was once told Norman Hunter had broken a leg, he asked: “Whose is it?” |
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| MuddyWaters |
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I think that’s a fair point ….. but then again I’ve always had a problem with the club changing the shirts annually when many clubs do it every 2 years. I know it makes good money but feels like a bit of an issue if you need to kit your kids out and you’ve got limited resources.
My lads had at least a hundred quids worth of stuff at Christmas. Now effectively obsolete. Not great. |
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| jamesgtfc |
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So I work in a business where we have various functions to make the business a real success including clinical, finance, product, marketing, operations, creative and legal.
There’s lots of stake holders and many more who are both financially & emotionally invested but it works really well because we let the experts who are trained & have the experience get on with their bit and it generally works.
So I get the bit about lack of consultation though personally I’m not that bothered but in terms of design I reckon it boils down to “you’ll please all of the people some of the time some of the people all of the time”.
We all know football is an industry like no other. Like Jason said himself, buying the club wasn't a financial investment. I totally get the need and desire for brand guidelines and a digitally compatible badge. In fact, the work done by Rich Lyons in his own time is commendable and I think it's great that both the new website and badge have local connections, that's exactly what community is about. I'm sure there were other versions of the badge mocked up and the Trust should have ran a poll on this from the beginning outlining the need for change which I think would have ticked the fan consultation box and stayed within the Fair Game rules that we co-founded. |
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| sam gy |
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My lads had at least a hundred quids worth of stuff at Christmas. Now effectively obsolete. Not great.
Is it though? The players are still wearing the same kit, and the same training gear. It’s not as if they’ve just brought out a whole new range mid season....the stuff you’ve bought just doesn’t have a tiny flag on the badge. |
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| sam gy |
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In fact, it’s not as if they’ve even gone and whacked the new badge on all of this current kit/gear either.
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| ginnywings |
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In fact, it’s not as if they’ve even gone and whacked the new badge on all of this current kit/gear either.
Yeah, but admitting that doesn't give Old Codger the chance to have another moan about the new owners. |
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| MuddyWaters |
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Yeah, but admitting that doesn't give Old Codger the chance to have another moan about the new owners.
Give it a rest. Even the owners admitted their error. Like several, you appear to have them on a pedestal. |
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| TuckerJenkins |
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Our old badge wasn't exactly lucky was it? Traditions mean something of course, but it's becoming traditional to have a relegation battle every season. Sometimes you have to twist and not stick.
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| Flippin' 'eck Tucker! |
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| arryarryarry |
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Our old badge wasn't exactly lucky was it? Traditions mean something of course, but it's becoming traditional to have a relegation battle every season. Sometimes you have to twist and not stick.
Are you suggesting that if we have the new badge we might get promoted? No point in signing anyone this month then. |
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| ginnywings |
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Give it a rest. Even the owners admitted their error. Like several, you appear to have them on a pedestal.
Nope! Just prepared to give them some leeway in their learning curve. |
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| LH |
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Been told tonight that the old badge was in the car with Sears. Completely understand why we’ve dropped it if that is the case - it was old enough to know better and should have been setting an example.
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| WayneBurnettsJockstrap |
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It took a Web designer TWO YEARS to add a flag..........
...............in the wrong location on the trawler!
WOW!
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| lukeo |
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Read most the comments in the previous 10 pages. I can understand why some people are upset, I guess it'd made sense to wait until the end of the season to do the badge change.. For me I'm not a fan of the added part of it, it doesn't look right nor is it in the right place. But I won't lose any sleep over it. Feel for those who have a tattoo of our old badge though  |
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| MuddyWaters |
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Barley Wine Drinker Posts: 14,101
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Nope!
Just prepared to give them some leeway in their learning curve.
Do you know what the best thing to have come out of this is? It’s Jason’s response. We now have a chairman who is prepared to admit that he’s got something wrong and that he isn’t beyond criticism. It’s what good businessmen do, it was John Fenty’s greatest flaw. No business and no businessman gets everything right. It’s how they respond. I have far more respect for Jason after this because he’s held his hands up, something Fenty never did. |
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| Zero_as_a_limit |
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Shandy Drinker Posts: 63
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Don't like the new badge. This isn't just about me being used to the proportions of the old badge. The main change (distending the banner and adding a blister to the top of the shield, seemingly to accomodate an oversized flag with the name of Stockwood & Petit's holding company) makes the badge look bloated. That's without mentioning how ridiculous it is to show a massive flag floating about in front of the bridge. Personally, I like the badge used the mid 1990s (with the red band around the shield and banner)- would prefer a return to those colours / proportions.  |
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| BlackandWhiteBarmy2 |
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It took a Web designer TWO YEARS to add a flag..........
...............in the wrong location on the trawler!
WOW!
So Fenty commissioned it then? |
| And when you fall back into the mud it hurts a lot.
No! None of it was true, none of those things we thought we could see existed at all.
All that was really there was still more misery
Emile Zola |
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| chipsandgravy |
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Give it a rest. Even the owners admitted their error. Like several, you appear to have them on a pedestal.
Think their error was to give the cynics a pedestal and golden opportunity and my have they enjoyed it. Very sad really when you look at the context of the argument. |
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| pizzzza |
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We now have a chairman who is prepared to admit that he’s got something wrong and that he isn’t beyond criticism. It’s what good businessmen do, it was John Fenty’s greatest flaw. No business and no businessman gets everything right. It’s how they respond.
The worrying thing for me is that it has been said that it was not just JS who got this wrong, the whole board were involved including the Mariners Trust reps. So either: 1.The whole board got this wrong together Or 2. JS made the decision and the rest went along with it (we have been here before right) |
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| exiledmeggie |
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Is the Co Op open, I think I need something stronger than popcorn!
Actually the new website and image is a sign to say we are going places. I like it.
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| Living in Exile since 1980, but still have Black and White blood! |
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| rancido |
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Read most the comments in the previous 10 pages. I can understand why some people are upset, I guess it'd made sense to wait until the end of the season to do the badge change.. For me I'm not a fan of the added part of it, it doesn't look right nor is it in the right place. But I won't lose any sleep over it. Feel for those who have a tattoo of our old badge though
Fair point about the tattoo but since I started watching town in1965, how many times has the badge been modified? You could apply that criticism to any time the badge has changed. IMO they could have used GY1878 as the registration number on the trawler but the whole badge change thing isn't enough to get me in a lather, unlike some posters. |
| The Future is Black & White.
"The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa |
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| forza ivano |
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It took a Web designer TWO YEARS to add a flag..........
...............in the wrong location on the trawler!
WOW!
that's stretching a bit isn't it? Be fair - he'd been playing around with the idea for a year or 2 and then when the new owners appeared he took it further. most of the changes are getting about some uniformity so that the whole badge, or elements of it, can be put on lots of different things, both on line and in the 'real world . My old company had a quite detailed owl as it's logo and over the 25 years i was there it changed quite a lot with the distortion of photocopying and printing etc and that was before then trying to replicate it digitally. Lets be honest - its a small job that needed doing.If its true there are 4 versions of the badge just within the ground then that's pretty poor presentation and hardly smacks of professionalism |
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| quebec38 |
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We are talking about versions of the badge having full stops after/between letters here, not one with 3 fish and another with a flipping dog or something.
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| TheRealJohnLewis |
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Don't like the new badge. This isn't just about me being used to the proportions of the old badge. The main change (distending the banner and adding a blister to the top of the shield, seemingly to accomodate an oversized flag with the name of Stockwood & Petit's holding company) makes the badge look bloated. That's without mentioning how ridiculous it is to show a massive flag floating about in front of the bridge. Personally, I like the badge used the mid 1990s (with the red band around the shield and banner)- would prefer a return to those colours / proportions.
You do realise the significance of the number 1878 don't you and that putting it on a flag on the badge isn't advertising a "holding company" and is not just an ego trip. |
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| HertsGTFC |
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Victory or defeat tomorrow and all this will go away 🙂
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| "Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style |
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| ginnywings |
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Do you know what the best thing to have come out of this is? It’s Jason’s response.
We now have a chairman who is prepared to admit that he’s got something wrong and that he isn’t beyond criticism. It’s what good businessmen do, it was John Fenty’s greatest flaw. No business and no businessman gets everything right. It’s how they respond.
I have far more respect for Jason after this because he’s held his hands up, something Fenty never did.
Agreed, and evidence that they are on a learning curve. |
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| dapperz fun pub |
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Out of a thousand things that do need changing the badge wasn’t one of them but not a biggy
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| davmariner |
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It’s hardly a Hull Tigers moment but at least they’ve owned it rather than doubled down (as our former majority shareholder did when it came to poor decisions).
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| Up The Mariners! |
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| Stadium |
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Is the Co Op open, I think I need something stronger than popcorn!
Actually the new website and image is a sign to say we are going places. I like it.
Agree. Nice upgrade on the website. Acknowledged there was no consultation but there's an excellent explanation around the website changes. No issues with badge. |
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| Civvy at last |
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I don’t really think anyone could have real issues with the new badge design.
Other than Town fans I doubt anyone else would really notice. I personally prefer the old one and if adding 1878 would like to see it on her hull. But again, it’s no big sweat. The worrying aspects for me where the fact they didn’t consult the main fan base first. Something they have since acknowledged
Also the timing. Should either have happened with the new kit supplier or at the next change of strip.
It is important that this was raised though. JS and Co are learning as they admit. And if their mistakes aren’t pointed out, how can they improve ??
UTM
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| The wife was going away for a girly weekend. I jokingly remarked 'I don't know whether to spend it watching porn or watching football' 'you may as well spend it watching porn' she replied That's understanding darling what makes you say that? I asked She said 'Well you already know how to play football'  |
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| Madeleymariner |
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Dont care who designed it or when, it looks fine other than that flag in the middle which is ridiculous had to be on the stern. Pity  |
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| Northbank Mariner |
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Dont care who designed it or when, it looks fine other than that flag in the middle which is ridiculous had to be on the stern. Pity
Bow my friend, the pointy bit at the front is the bow, the registered numbers of trawlers was generally on the port and aft side of the bow. |
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| Madeleymariner |
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Yes but to my view flags tend to be at the back of boats as well  |
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| moosey_club |
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Public wins. An apology received, a change likely.....and moving forward I would expect greater communication in such matters.
Disappointing it occurred but hopefully not to be repeated.
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| Heisenberg |
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I have always thought that our badge is the best out there. Personally I think the subtle change of adding the flag is terrible, a real misstep.
I’m not gonna lose my sh#t over this, but it was a strange move to go ahead and do this without telling everyone beforehand. What a strange development. Our club really is confusing me nowadays.
Anyway, 3 points tomorrow, however unlikely, is all we really want.
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| Stranger in the Park |
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That's the way I view it, it looks like someone has forgotten to make the banner a separate part of the badge. Looks a bit naff.
Also just viewing the new website on my phone there doesn't seem a simple way to reject all cookies like most sites. I can't be arsed to visit sites that don't give you that option.
For this reason alone, I did not go on the site and will not until there are options. Also, I thought the tone of the release notice posted to announce the new site to be a bit too full of "corporate speak". I have a pet hate of being talked down to and this is how I perceived the notice and totally lacking in any warming towards the new site. As for the badge changes,I'm indifferent but again, options would have been more desirable. |
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| denni266 |
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Cant fault the web site or the badge apart from the flag. Nothing wrong with having one , but not there,, Think the crew would have problems with it being there It should have been on the stern |
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| Poojah |
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As club brand fúck ups go, this isn’t that high up on the list for me. This isn’t Vincent Tan changing Cardiff’s home colours to red, Leeds United’s shambolic badge unveiling of a couple of years ago or Liverpool’s partnership with Dunkin’ Donuts, in which a ‘reimagined’ version of the Liverpool crest was published with the Hillsborough flames replaced with mocha-chocca-frappe-latte’s - that one really upset the locals, and understandably so.
This was probably a tiny bit tactless on the club’s part, but most likely borne out of well meaning enthusiasm rather than any premeditated oversight of fan opinions. The club has held its hands up, apologised and offered to rectify the situation. I personally feel we can move on from that.
There was perhaps a touch of naivety about the website launch, too. For anyone who’s been in any way involved in things like this over the years, you’ll probably know it’s not a great idea to launch something immediately after the festive period. Things always go to the wire, and Christmas isn’t particularly a time when people want to be putting in a string of all-nighters to get the job done in time.
As such, the site went live with a fair few rough edges and technical misgivings, and if I’m honest, felt a little below par given JS’ impeccable background in the digital world. All addressable, but nonetheless a little short of expectations as someone who is very well versed with how well Simply Business do things.
But there’s a point worth remembering here; Simply Business is a much larger organisation than Town, with revenues something like 20x that of ours. With that comes bigger budgets and access to a much greater pool of strategic, commercial and marketing talent.
And perhaps that’s a lesson that JS has to learn the hard way. Toto, we’re not in London anymore.
This is going to be a lot more rough and tumble than he’s been used to in recent times. He’s gonna have to scrap a bit, and I’ve no doubt he will. People often ask the question of how a Pep or Klopp would do managing at Stevenage or Barrow for instance, and there are elements of that at play here I think. The boardroom of an established fintech company in the capital is a very different place to the boardroom at BP, even accounting for our brand new tea and coffee making facilities.
So all in all, perhaps some mistakes were made here but ones which are, ultimately, small beer. And the positives I’d take are the lessons learned; yes, by the club themselves but also the fans. The new owners may well be polished and successful business people, but they are also learning on the job here - a job unlike anything they’ll have done before.
Mistakes will be made over the course of the next few months, and when they are I think it’s important that they are reasonably and constructively called out in the knowledge that this is all just part of the process. A process that may feel like it’s taking longer than many would like, but that’s more a case of circumstance brought about through inept stewardship in the years preceding May 2021.
Dust down and move on…
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| gtfc98 |
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Gtfcjacko- an idiot on twitter
Drunken rants and tweets to the owners and debbie cook about the badge. Embarrasing
He's a complete plonker. |
| No longer Sick of the BlueSquare  |
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| GibMariner |
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You do realise the significance of the number 1878 don't you and that putting it on a flag on the badge isn't advertising a "holding company" and is not just an ego trip.
😂😂 |
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| Zero_as_a_limit |
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You do realise the significance of the number 1878 don't you and that putting it on a flag on the badge isn't advertising a "holding company" and is not just an ego trip.
In the 143 years since the club was founded it has never included the year it was founded (1878 ) on its badge. The new owners decided to use 1878 as the name of the vehicle they used to acquire the club. The new owners then instructed a graphic designer to change the club's badge to accomodate an oversized flag that says '1878'. To me this looks like the new owners wanting to put 'their' stamp on the club in the most visible way possible. My bigger concern is that this is a 'dead cat' to distract people from what is likely to be an underwhelming January transfer window. |
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| aldi_01 |
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Storm in a tea cup really. No football to moan about so naturally, club do something, some fans don’t like it, complete over reaction…all predictable really.
Club apologises, something were certainly not used to, many of those fans wetting their knickers are left confused…
Funny all round, and in truth, I reckon had they just slipped it out, some of those morons proper losing their minds probably wouldn’t have noticed for a while.
Either way, I personally didn’t think the changes were too bad, our badge always seemed too big and busy, I much preferred the old badge with the yellow, each to their own though.
The reaction of some has been hilarious though…
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| 'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza |
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| Ipswin |
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It it ain't broke don't fit it
Rather a lot of other problems first I would have thought
How much longer we have to make the league table so we still appear to be in the top half for example!
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| Roast Em Bobby |
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The re-shaping of the badge to keep it proportional when scaled up or down in size is very good, I think. However, I don't understand how they can say that the badge will work at all sizes/scales when it's nearly impossible to read the 1878 part on the flag unless it's a large sized version or you really zoom in.
Red on black is not the best in terms of contrast anyway, so sticking in a tiny 1878 makes it even worse - I'm suprised a designer from Apple would go with this to be honest. If they wanted to incorporate 1878 somewhere (which I do think is a good thing to do, as it displays our heritage) then it at least needs to be readable at the size the logo is displayed on the gtfc website. Perhaps it would have been better to have it above or below the three fish, and in white on black rather than red.
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| jamesgtfc |
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The re-shaping of the badge to keep it proportional when scaled up or down in size is very good, I think. However, I don't understand how they can say that the badge will work at all sizes/scales when it's nearly impossible to read the 1878 part on the flag unless it's a large sized version or you really zoom in.
Red on black is not the best in terms of contrast anyway, so sticking in a tiny 1878 makes it even worse - I'm suprised a designer from Apple would go with this to be honest. If they wanted to incorporate 1878 somewhere (which I do think is a good thing to do, as it displays our heritage) then it at least needs to be readable at the size the logo is displayed on the gtfc website. Perhaps it would have been better to have it above or below the three fish, and in white on black rather than red.
I haven't seen anyone suggest having 18 on the left and 78 on the right of the banner where the club name is. Not sure how it would look until I saw it but it would be white and more visible. I see we are having a vote on 2 options. I agree fully with the need to bring the badge into a digital world so I hope the vote is for 2 digital options. |
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| WHYWONTYOULETMESIGNUP |
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I prefer the new one now the telegraphs posted a proper side by side
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| ginnywings |
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JS on Radio Humberside just after 2 o'clock today, so I'm sure he will explain things.
Also the legend that is Craig Disley co-commentating the match.
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| immariner |
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On the side by side, I quite like it, looks tidier I think, but what's the use of having the 1878 on there if it's pixellated at small resolutions? How does that make it digital friendly? If we're adding 1878 to it, I feel like we should really be adding it. Perhaps it could have been added in place of the 2 black triangles below the banner, 18 on one side, 78 on the other. No sweat though really and I'll be voting for it
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| exiledmeggie |
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Refreshing to hear JS on this!
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| Living in Exile since 1980, but still have Black and White blood! |
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| Jaws |
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See it was used on the scoreboard, twitter and youtube. Thought it was off out for consultation now?
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| sapper mariner |
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Is it me or my phone but do we have two websites now gtfc.co.uk and Grimsby-townfc.co.uk assume the later will get taken down at some point but could get confusing for some
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| Ubique |
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Had 5 minutes to kill so had a go at fixing it (with and without the dock tower).   |
| A smooth sea never made a skillful mariner. |
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| quebec38 |
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Top one is brilliant. I had wondered what we could do with the elongated space left by the flag should it be removed, but to me that is the perfect solution.
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| HerveJosse |
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Had 5 minutes to kill so had a go at fixing it (with and without the dock tower).
Top one is perfect. To much clutter on the alternatives. Hope you are prepared for the offer from Apple. |
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Had 5 minutes to kill so had a go at fixing it (with and without the dock tower).
Top one is definitely much better than both the old and (proposed) one. How can we vote for this. |
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I really like the addition of the Dock Tower.
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Top one is definitely much better than both the old and (proposed) one. How can we vote for this.
You could get a job with a tech giant with skills like that .... Seriously though . I love the dock tower one 😍 |
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| Roast Em Bobby |
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Poojah's are good but still have the same issue as the club's new version that you can't read what the 1878 bit says when you display it at half the size of the above (which will be roughly the size it will mostly be used). I've just had a little mess about and it quite hard to get the 1878 bit clear at half the size logo. This was the best I could come up with (without spending hours trying)  |
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Don’t see why we need 1878 on the badge.
Managed without it for 144 years.
Usually less is more when it comes to design.
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| Roast Em Bobby |
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Yeah, true. But we didn't have 3 fish for a long time either. You could argue that showing off how long you've existed is more relevent than 3 fish
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Don’t see why we need 1878 on the badge.
Managed without it for 144 years.
Usually less is more when it comes to design.
Christ on a bike, you really are annoying! You might as well say "why the trawler" seeing as technically we don't have any trawlers fishing out of Grimsby! For what it's worth Herve Josse, it's all about heritage, identity and how the club came into being in the first place. |
| The Future is Black & White.
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Good to see the cross on the boat, hopefully a move to us becoming a more Christian Club. Amen to that.
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| 4055 |
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Poojah's are good but still have the same issue as the club's new version that you can't read what the 1878 bit says when you display it at half the size of the above (which will be roughly the size it will mostly be used). I've just had a little mess about and it quite hard to get the 1878 bit clear at half the size logo. This was the best I could come up with (without spending hours trying)
Very good but drop the EST. |
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| Nelly GTFC |
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The flag did seem really cheesy, but didn't bother me. Poojahs alteration with just the 1878 on the side, and Roast Em Bobbys are much better ideas imo than the one the club wanted to implement.
I liked the badge on the old Avec shirts in the late 90s, early 2000s, it didn't feel cheap, but probally wasn't either, I guess the newer version was a cost cutting exercise. Shame really.
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Don't mind having 1878 on the badge but the flag looks shite. Put it on the boat or on the crest.
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| Nelly GTFC |
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I like option B, but without the flag |
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Prefer not having the flag but would like the existing one to be updated and more digital friendly. So I voted for the status quo.
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Prefer not having the flag but would like the existing one to be updated and more digital friendly. So I voted for the status quo.
Pretty much my feelings too. Voted A since I do not like the flag but I would be open to them making the original more digitally friendly in the future. |
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So why not offer it as an option? They could just work on that in the back ground and give us a vote on both options when it’s ready. Better still just drop the flag and go with that as a compromise.
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So why not offer it as an option?
I actually think they have shot themselves in the foot a bit by not offering it. If a third option was there they could have split the "no flag" vote and given the flag badge a better chance of winning. |
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https://gtfc.co.uk/crest-vote-now-open/‘Accept our changes or stay stuck in the past forever’
100% this. Personally, I would acknowledge that there's loads of good stuff about the new badge; it's so much bolder, crisper and more modern than the old one - people simply didn't like the flag and lack of consultation, which isn't wholly unreasonable. Having initially owned the situation and apologised, to now turn around and say "you're having this badge or no new badge at all", frankly feels like they're shooting themselves in the foot once more. Which is disappointing. It comes across as rather arsey, and doesn't really tally with the idea that they've "listened to the fans". Personally I'd take the positives of the new version and address the bits people didn't like, something similar to the mock-up I posted on page 14 (with or without the '1878'). |
| A smooth sea never made a skillful mariner. |
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Don't mind having 1878 on the badge but the flag looks shite. Put it on the boat or on the crest.
exactly this.i voted for the original, but with regret |
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https://gtfc.co.uk/crest-vote-now-open/‘Accept our changes or stay stuck in the past forever’
Can only vote here if provide an email address . Really!! Why? I don’t provide email addresses unless it’s essential since Curry’s mass email collection was hacked If I go out not the office and vote as suggested as an alternative will I be required to provide an email address. |
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Whilst I prefer the digital version, I just can’t get on board with the flag, and so voted for the original. Drop the flag and I’m in. Completely agree that we need a crisper digital image.
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I guess because it was done for free, they can't just ask him to change it. Shame because the new one is much better, except that flag.
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In agreement with most posters.
Don't like the flag, but not averse to an update with the numbers on the bow.
They need to add a third choice.
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I thought the Mariners Trust would be engaging with the fans on this.
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| jamesgtfc |
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I thought the Mariners Trust would be engaging with the fans on this.
They are fully involved, their secretary is going to count the votes. I fully support digitisation and think the way it was presented to us initially was very poor so they apologised but this does feel a little bit rushed and again, misjudged. |
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| HerveJosse |
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I guess because it was done for free, they can't just ask him to change it. Shame because the new one is much better, except that flag.
Ask Poojah to do it it’s a 5 minute job see his posts above. I know the 90% majority think I have it in for the new owners but really! I have worked with one of the leading brand design agencies in the U.K. and Us for 25 years and this is a 5 minute job. I don’t doubt Jason’s good intentions but that alone isn’t going to deliver a raised level of competence. |
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| jamesgtfc |
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Ask Poojah to do it it’s a 5 minute job see his posts above.
I know the 90% majority think I have it in for the new owners but really!
I have worked with one of the leading brand design agencies in the U.K. and Us for 25 years and this is a 5 minute job.
I don’t doubt Jason’s good intentions but that alone isn’t going to deliver a raised level of competence.
It wouldn't surprise me if the club already have a version without the flag but it's certainly not time consuming or difficult. All the hard work was geometrically redrawing the whole badge. Suggestions that we should accept it because he's done it for free are something we would absolutely berate the old regime for. |
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| Knut Anders Fosters Voles |
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I guess because it was done for free, they can't just ask him to change it. Shame because the new one is much better, except that flag.
If it has been designed by an Apple bod it probably can’t be fixed now anyway. It will be obsolete in a year because you can no longer update it. |
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[quote=1655All the hard work was geometrically redrawing the whole badge.
Wow you actually agree with me !
The software does that bit for you by the way
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| jamesgtfc |
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[quote=1655All the hard work was geometrically redrawing the whole badge.
Wow you actually agree with me !
The software does that bit for you by the way
I'm not cantankerous after all! I have my opinions, you have yours and ocassionally they match it seems! Hope you're around in 50 years so we can agree on the badge rebrand again. |
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| HerveJosse |
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I'm not cantankerous after all! I have my opinions, you have yours and ocassionally they match it seems!
Hope you're around in 50 years so we can agree on the badge rebrand again.
I can guarantee you I won’t be around in 50 years. |
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| LH |
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I can guarantee you I won’t be around in 50 years.
As long as you keep taking your boosters you’ve got every chance 👍 |
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I can guarantee you I won’t be around in 50 years.
I will be on my last legs if I am! |
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| Swansea_Mariner |
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As the approach now seems a bit arsey I've voted for the old one.
Just digitally enhance the old one Poojah has managed to adapt it into something much better in like 5 minute (or something!)
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| Vance Warner |
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Not keen on the flag but not that bothered either. Supporting the new owners in their efforts to modernise the club is much more important to me so I’ve voted for Option B.
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| NorthLondonMariner |
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In the 143 years since the club was founded it has never included the year it was founded (1878 ) on its badge.
The new owners decided to use 1878 as the name of the vehicle they used to acquire the club.
The new owners then instructed a graphic designer to change the club's badge to accomodate an oversized flag that says '1878'.
To me this looks like the new owners wanting to put 'their' stamp on the club in the most visible way possible.
My bigger concern is that this is a 'dead cat' to distract people from what is likely to be an underwhelming January transfer window.
Always a conspiracy behind everything with some people aye?. its a flag on a badge for god's sake. I bet Fenty is kicking himself for not dreaming up this "dead cat" to distract people from discovering his involvement with Alex May..........  |
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| chaos33 |
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Can I just ask…..what does ‘BETA’ mean?
My view on this generally is that anyone who is genuinely exorcised by this utter non story must have an incredibly non complicated life. As if any of this matters a f*ck in any sort of perspective.
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| "You should do what you love while you can" |
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| NorthLondonMariner |
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Can I just ask…..what does ‘BETA’ mean?
My view on this generally is that anyone who is genuinely exorcised by this utter non story must have an incredibly non complicated life. As if any of this matters a f*ck in any sort of perspective.
it was a tongue-in-cheek reference to the new website. The beta stage of a development process is when a product has taken shape and can be used/tested. This does not mean that the product is finished, and it is expected to contain bugs/oddities. |
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| pizzzza |
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Can I just ask…..what does ‘BETA’ mean?
Not sure, we had VHS in our house |
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| chaos33 |
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Right
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| "You should do what you love while you can" |
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| Swansea_Mariner |
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I see the Trust have now issued a tweet to state that if the old badge wins it will be updated to digital standards.
Honestly I'm really struggling to understand how the club can have made such a mess of this, something which should have been so simple. Surely the point in employing more professionals behind the scenes was to avoid the amateurish approach we had previously.
This is not to say that I'm not fully behind what the club are trying to do, just do it better, especially basic stuff, i mean come on.
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I see the Trust have now issued a tweet to state that if the old badge wins it will be updated to digital standards.
Honestly I'm really struggling to understand how the club can have made such a mess of this, something which should have been so simple. Surely the point in employing more professionals behind the scenes was to avoid the amateurish approach we had previously.
This is not to say that I'm not fully behind what the club are trying to do, just do it better, especially basic stuff, i mean come on.
They could have recreated the badge 1:1 to work at all sizes and hardly anyone would have known, only those using the badge as a graphic asset would and that should have been done about 15 years ago. No one is against pushing the club forward and these little enhancements are very nice but I do agree I find it odd that they decided to change the badge without input from the fan base. |
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| jamesgtfc |
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They could have recreated the badge 1:1 to work at all sizes and hardly anyone would have known, only those using the badge as a graphic asset would and that should have been done about 15 years ago. No one is against pushing the club forward and these little enhancements are very nice but I do agree I find it odd that they decided to change the badge without input from the fan base.
Our fan representatives waved it through so they assumed it would be ok. This whole thing undermines the Trust though because in my opinion the vote should be going via them as it helps drive membership and prevents rival fans voting for an option we don't want. This "club having a fan database though" is nonsense because the club not having your email address does not make you any less of a fan. What if your ticket has always been bought for you? |
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| DaleH |
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The amount of football club crests that have the year that they were formed on them, is absolutely unreal. I would have to say, that on reflection, 1878 not appearing on the badge in some form, has probably been quite remis, if that isn't too strong a word.
The year of the club formation is part of the history and heritage of the club, and I would like to see it included. Whether that is as a flag, a nameplate on the trawler, or a ribbon added at the foot of the crest, is of absolutely no concern to me. It's immaterial as long as it is included somewhere. And, as a man that comes from a graphic design background, I would suggest that the change to the crest to incorporate this, has been minor, subtle, and has not taken things very far away from the existing design. It's a nice job.
I cannot believe that so much fuss has been made about this, given the small amount of change that has taken place. But each to their own I suppose.
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| Time to resurrect my Fishy signature again. So here goes.
"BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR" |
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| Plankton |
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The amount of football club crests that have the year that they were formed on them, is absolutely unreal. I would have to say, that on reflection, 1878 not appearing on the badge in some form, has probably been quite remis, if that isn't too strong a word.
The year of the club formation is part of the history and heritage of the club, and I would like to see it included. Whether that is as a flag, a nameplate on the trawler, or a ribbon added at the foot of the crest, is of absolutely no concern to me. It's immaterial as long as it is included somewhere. And, as a man that comes from a graphic design background, I would suggest that the change to the crest to incorporate this, has been minor, subtle, and has not taken things very far away from the existing design. It's a nice job.
I cannot believe that so much fuss has been made about this, given the small amount of change that has taken place. But each to their own I suppose.
I see both sides and I am too a current graphic designer so I understand the intricacies of the sort of thing, like yourself. It should have been a consultation and we wouldn't have this situation. |
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| Swansea_Mariner |
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The vast majority of the fuss could have been easily avoided though, they've turned what should have been a total non event into a bit of a circus, I mean we're on page 19 of this. Wtf
I bet their right fed up of this topic, but guess what it's self inflicted. Flat out face-palm stuff
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Tweet 1479832640522014729 will appear here... Here's a design statement from the designer himself. |
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I’m not sure that statement is going to have the positive affect he had quite hoped, I’m totally ambivalent towards badge-gate, I fully don’t care either way but that statement comes across as very arrogant & passive aggressive. Very odd.
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I’m not sure that statement is going to have the positive affect he had quite hoped, I’m totally ambivalent towards badge-gate, I fully don’t care either way but that statement comes across as very arrogant & passive aggressive. Very odd.
Couldn't agree more, comes across as though he's saying "I wish I hadn't bothered" kind of attitude to me . |
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| Rodley Mariner |
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To be fair to him that's probably exactly how he feels.
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| jamesgtfc |
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Tweet 1479832640522014729 will appear here... Here's a design statement from the designer himself.
With an attitude like that he can shove his badge. "I'm a designer so none of your opinions matter." |
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| Plankton |
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With an attitude like that he can shove his badge. "I'm a designer so none of your opinions matter."
I kind of understand what he's saying, to a point, he's been giving a brief and met it. It isn't his fault that the brief wasn't going to meet the desired outcome, as in, discussion with fans and consultation. He did what was asked and that was that, however, making a 'design statement' is incredibly bizarre and something marketing should take control of, not the designer as this what happens. |
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I mean, this is just f@cking incredible to me. The strength of some opinions and then the reading of the designer making a statement as passive aggressive. Just incredible. I really, really don’t understand. I mean, there are real things that matter going on in lives FFS
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I kind of understand what he's saying, to a point, he's been giving a brief and met it. It isn't his fault that the brief wasn't going to meet the desired outcome, as in, discussion with fans and consultation. He did what was asked and that was that, however, making a 'design statement' is incredibly bizarre and something marketing should take control of, not the designer as this what happens.
Comparing football to Apple, Airbnb and Deliveroo show he maybe doesn't quite understand the passion shown by football fans. I do feel for him getting caught up in it but his passive aggressive ramblings don't sit well with me. I thought we were done with these kind of attitudes when the takeover happened. |
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I mean, this is just f@cking incredible to me. The strength of some opinions and then the reading of the designer making a statement as passive aggressive. Just incredible. I really, really don’t understand. I mean, there are real things that matter going on in lives FFS
Whichever opinion anyone has on the badge, it's just been handled poorly and we should expect higher standards in communication. Can we move on to fixing the website for mobile yet? |
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Oh dear is that a dummy I see on the floor?
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So many trumpets in that statement.
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Comparing football to Apple, Airbnb and Deliveroo show he maybe doesn't quite understand the passion shown by football fans. I do feel for him getting caught up in it but his passive aggressive ramblings don't sit well with me. I thought we were done with these kind of attitudes when the takeover happened.
Great point in fairness. You can't compare consumer brands with football which encompasses a lineage for a lot of people and is deep rooted in their sense of belonging in a community. |
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I’m not sure what’s funnier; the people getting angry about the badge or the people getting angry about the people getting angry about the badge.
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| Rodley Mariner |
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People need to start displaying a bit of respect and empathy here. This is a Town fan who spotted a problem and used his professional expertise and own time to try to fix it.
The club communicated the work he had done and the reasons clumsily. Next thing people are slating his work and knocking out their own 'superior' versions online. Unfortunately these people hadn't done anything previously to fix this problem they were probably completely unaware of as I was.
So now after all of his work we have an online poll to decide if he's completely wasted his time and a lot of people seem completely unsympathetic to why he might be feeling a bit touchy and his efforts a little unappreciated. Next time we need this type of work doing I'd guess we'll be paying for it.
Disliking what he's done is fine as is being critical of the clubs handling of it but some people really need to take a breath and think a bit longer before leaping in and criticising the work and efforts of others. If i was a talented Town fan who was considering using my abilities to contribute I would be reaching the conclusion it would be better not to bother. Is that what people want? Fortunately I'm completely talentless so no big loss but let's hope others with some expertise don't reach the same conclusion.
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Wow, I’ve tried to remain unmoved by this whole mess but it just gets worse doesn’t it? The club now saying the old badge will be given the same treatment if that wins the vote, but Rich Lyons seemingly doesn’t know anything about this and won’t be doing it. That is the reason why there were no more alternatives than his work or the old badge. I.e no redesign minus the 1878. This is RL’s design so I guess the club can’t take a bastardised version (minus 187 if the original wins. I think the vote needs pulling now and just carrying on with the old badge to avoid things getting any worse. Big fan of the new owners but this has been a bad own goal by all concerned. |
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How have they got this wrong, by assuming it'll be ok with the fans, especially a change that automatically put your current kit useless. This should have been done at the end of the season and made the current one ready for digital.
I prefer the old one to the new, but appreciate someone has done this in their own time. Tbh i actually prefer the badge to have the red outline.
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The old badge isn't fit for purpose in 2022. That's why the lad tried to fix it.
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| Rodley Mariner |
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How does it make the current kit useless? We are still going to play in it.
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| jamesgtfc |
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How have they got this wrong, by assuming it'll be ok with the fans, especially a change that automatically put your current kit useless. This should have been done at the end of the season and made the current one ready for digital.
I prefer the old one to the new, but appreciate someone has done this in their own time. Tbh i actually prefer the badge to have the red outline.
I'm not sure where the decision making is coming from here but football fans are far more vocal and passionate with their opinions than stakeholders of the YMCA, a dating site or insurance company and hopefully, they are all learning a lot from how this has been handled. |
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I'm not sure where the decision making is coming from here but football fans are far more vocal and passionate with their opinions than stakeholders of the YMCA, a dating site or insurance company and hopefully, they are all learning a lot from how this has been handled.
I'm more than happy with the new owners and they are making (or trying to) changes due to 20 years of neglect. Just a shame but im sure they will learn from it. |
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Gosh this is almost as so we have Fenty back isn't it |
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People need to start displaying a bit of respect and empathy here. This is a Town fan who spotted a problem and used his professional expertise and own time to try to fix it.
The club communicated the work he had done and the reasons clumsily. Next thing people are slating his work and knocking out their own 'superior' versions online. Unfortunately these people hadn't done anything previously to fix this problem they were probably completely unaware of as I was.
So now after all of his work we have an online poll to decide if he's completely wasted his time and a lot of people seem completely unsympathetic to why he might be feeling a bit touchy and his efforts a little unappreciated. Next time we need this type of work doing I'd guess we'll be paying for it.
Disliking what he's done is fine as is being critical of the clubs handling of it but some people really need to take a breath and think a bit longer before leaping in and criticising the work and efforts of others. If i was a talented Town fan who was considering using my abilities to contribute I would be reaching the conclusion it would be better not to bother. Is that what people want? Fortunately I'm completely talentless so no big loss but let's hope others with some expertise don't reach the same conclusion.
People don't give a excrement about his time and effort, all they care about is something was made different and now they are mad about it. |
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| Plankton |
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People need to start displaying a bit of respect and empathy here. This is a Town fan who spotted a problem and used his professional expertise and own time to try to fix it.
The club communicated the work he had done and the reasons clumsily. Next thing people are slating his work and knocking out their own 'superior' versions online. Unfortunately these people hadn't done anything previously to fix this problem they were probably completely unaware of as I was.
So now after all of his work we have an online poll to decide if he's completely wasted his time and a lot of people seem completely unsympathetic to why he might be feeling a bit touchy and his efforts a little unappreciated. Next time we need this type of work doing I'd guess we'll be paying for it.
Disliking what he's done is fine as is being critical of the clubs handling of it but some people really need to take a breath and think a bit longer before leaping in and criticising the work and efforts of others. If i was a talented Town fan who was considering using my abilities to contribute I would be reaching the conclusion it would be better not to bother. Is that what people want? Fortunately I'm completely talentless so no big loss but let's hope others with some expertise don't reach the same conclusion.
Animosity and being awkward are uncalled for and it helps no one, especially the club. I do understand where you are coming from, we certainly have many talented people who are fans of the club. The issue is you cannot 'outsource' an exercise in rebranding, it just doesn't work like that and I'm very surprised that the new owners have entertained this concept. Expertise is a bought and paid for gig, it's a transactional process in which the designer works to a brief given to them and it's on those delivering the brief to ensure it's met. It seems in this scenario this person has decided to recreate the club badge which is absolutely fine, the issue is the assumption that the target audience would be receptive, which falls upon those who made the decision to go ahead without consultation. We should absolutely be paying for this type of work, it's madness to not enter into a professional relationship in regards to design work. The club's marketing department should have complete ownership of the communication of this, with consultation from the trust and that seems to have not happened, it's amateur and small organisations or poorly run ones operate in this way. |
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The old badge isn't fit for purpose in 2022. That's why the lad tried to fix it.
Has anyone actually said why the current one can't be digitally acceptable? It has seemed OK when used on the website. As for the designer getting so called upset by criticism, what a fanny. The current badge was designed by a fan In a competition open to all fans, I sent one it but it wasn't used but I didn't get upset as the one chosen was far better than mine and I doubt anyone else got upset. This guy needs to grow a pair. I think this has been poorly handled by the new owners who are supposed to be business experts, I'm also disappointed with the two Trust directors who apparently agreed with the decision just to announce the new badge without any mention to the fans that the club was looking to change it. |
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Has anyone actually said why the current one can't be digitally acceptable? It has seemed OK when used on the website.
It's probably not a vector graphic which can be sized to any scale desired. It works on screen, mostly as is but isn't fit for purpose if you're producing large prints/ |
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| Rodley Mariner |
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People are having meltdowns over a tiny little flag and he needs to stop being a fanny....
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| arryarryarry |
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People are having meltdowns over a tiny little flag and he needs to stop being a fanny....
Yep. |
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It's probably not a vector graphic which can be sized to any scale desired. It works on screen, mostly as is but isn't fit for purpose if you're producing large prints/
You lost me at probably 😃 |
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| LH |
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That statement: get out of your own bottom. “Poll of the existing badge vs the improved badge”. Obviously a huge Town fan if he didn’t know about Fair Game - this was quite a big thing when it was announced.
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You lost me at probably 😃
Think of it like this: you've got a big piece of paper with a drawing on it, you can take a photo of that drawing and shrink it down and it looks fine. You cannot do the opposite by taking a photo of a small drawing and making it bigger. Not exactly the way it is, but it's an analogy that works. |
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| Rodley Mariner |
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That statement: get out of your own bottom. “Poll of the existing badge vs the improved badge”. Obviously a huge Town fan if he didn’t know about Fair Game - this was quite a big thing when it was announced.
intercourse me. Obviously not a big town fan because despite doing a load of work for free he doesn't know about Fair Game. |
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| jamesgtfc |
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That statement: get out of your own bottom. “Poll of the existing badge vs the improved badge”. Obviously a huge Town fan if he didn’t know about Fair Game - this was quite a big thing when it was announced.
He probably typed it out on his Apple MacBook whilst perched on a snooker table. It's the kind of tone I really thought we had moved on from. |
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| Rodley Mariner |
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He probably typed it out on his Apple MacBook whilst perched on a snooker table. It's the kind of tone I really thought we had moved on from.
I thought we'd moved on from driving people away from the club who want to be involved because they don't do absolutely everything we want exactly as we want it. |
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I’m totally with you here Rodley.
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| jamesgtfc |
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I thought we'd moved on from driving people away from the club who want to be involved because they don't do absolutely everything we want exactly as we want it.
I thought we'd moved away from people representing the club; either directly or indirectly; in such an aggressive manner. I appreciate his efforts and he's been let down by the clubs handling of the situation but his passive aggressive ramblings have clearly rubbed people up the wrong way. |
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intercourse me. Obviously not a big town fan because despite doing a load of work for free he doesn't know about Fair Game.
Perhaps harsh - but maybe someone who has spent 3 years pro bono improving (in his own mind) arguably the most recognisable thing to outsiders about the club and probably the very last thing that needed ‘improving’ would consider the reaction it might get? A week ago I didn’t give two shits but the excrement comms by our supposedly clearer board in the initial announcement, last night with the dummies out poll and this mornings u-turn and then this arrogant nob’s statement I am fully against any changes. I’m a bit too mad about it too and I know I am but this was all avoidable. |
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I thought we'd moved on from driving people away from the club who want to be involved because they don't do absolutely everything we want exactly as we want it.
This. If I was JS and AP I would be wondering what the hell they had let themselves in for. |
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Fair play to the guy for working on it in his own time for 3 years but it doesn’t mean that everyone will like it . Im sorry but the flag looks shi.te , doesn’t matter if you work for Apple or Aldi .
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Hard to comprehend what an absolute mess this has become completely unnecessarily.
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| Rodley Mariner |
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Perhaps harsh - but maybe someone who has spent 3 years pro bono improving (in his own mind) arguably the most ost recognisable thing to outsiders about the club and probably the very last thing that needed ‘improving’ would consider the reaction it might get?
A week ago I didn’t give two shits but the excrement comms by our supposedly clearer board in the initial announcement, last night with the dummies out poll and this mornings u-turn and then this arrogant nob’s statement I am fully against any changes. I’m a bit too mad about it too and I know I am but this was all avoidable.
It's not really a statement is it - he's not an employee. It's basically a long and angry tweet. From someone who is really drunk off he's being pulled apart for trying to contribute. It's prickly and terse and written in anger but he's not in comms is he? He's a designer. Who despite having a successful career and working thousands of miles away tried to do something to help Grimsby Town Football Club and in return gets this excrement. You talk about the 'most recognisable thing to outsiders' being changed. Tell me what negative impact that flag will have on anybody or convince me anyone who doesn't support Town would even spot it. As opposed to the clear positives and benefits that have been explained more than once but people repeatedly choose to ignore. Rich Lyons might be an bottom or he might be a great bloke. I have no idea. But I hate that he's tried to do something to help and is being treated like this. And I really hate the idea that 1878, who have acknowledged they copulated this up, might think it would be easier to have left us rotting in the past with our hand drawn badge and John Fenty. If you want them to change things and make them better then you won't like everything they do and they will make mistakes. And if people want to be consulted about every single decision they make they are going to be disappointed because you can't run a business or a football club like that. |
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I’ve got a feeling this is now getting fuelled by beer this time on a Saturday night . Moment of clarity talking.
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It's not really a statement is it - he's not an employee. It's basically a long and angry tweet. From someone who is really drunk off he's being pulled apart for trying to contribute. It's prickly and terse and written in anger but he's not in comms is he? He's a designer. Who despite having a successful career and working thousands of miles away tried to do something to help Grimsby Town Football Club and in return gets this excrement.
You talk about the 'most recognisable thing to outsiders' being changed. Tell me what negative impact that flag will have on anybody or convince me anyone who doesn't support Town would even spot it. As opposed to the clear positives and benefits that have been explained more than once bit people repeatedly choose to ignore.
Rich Lyons might be an bottom or he might be a great bloke. I have no idea. But I hate that he's tried to do something to help and is being treated like this. And I really hate the idea that 1878, who have acknowledged they copulated this up, might think it would be easier to have left us rotting in the past with our hand drawn badge and John Fenty. If you want them to change things and make them better then you won't like everything they do and they will make mistakes. And if people want to be consulted about every single decision they make they are going to be disappointed because you can't run a business or a football club like that.
The problem is the way that it's been done. I can appreciate the artwork Rich has created, I actually quite like it as badge and the way it's presented, it feels slick in the animation showing the geometry, but not as a badge for our club, it feels a bit of a franchise decision and it doesn't sit well with me as it's an isolated decision and that's not how things should be done for a football club's branding. It is not unreasonable for the client base to have opinions on their investment, as in, football club supporters, they're probably the most passionate section of our society. If there was a time for the Trust to have a purpose it is on this. |
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It's not really a statement is it - he's not an employee. It's basically a long and angry tweet. From someone who is really drunk off he's being pulled apart for trying to contribute. It's prickly and terse and written in anger but he's not in comms is he? He's a designer. Who despite having a successful career and working thousands of miles away tried to do something to help Grimsby Town Football Club and in return gets this excrement.
You talk about the 'most recognisable thing to outsiders' being changed. Tell me what negative impact that flag will have on anybody or convince me anyone who doesn't support Town would even spot it. As opposed to the clear positives and benefits that have been explained more than once but people repeatedly choose to ignore.
Rich Lyons might be an bottom or he might be a great bloke. I have no idea. But I hate that he's tried to do something to help and is being treated like this. And I really hate the idea that 1878, who have acknowledged they copulated this up, might think it would be easier to have left us rotting in the past with our hand drawn badge and John Fenty. If you want them to change things and make them better then you won't like everything they do and they will make mistakes. And if people want to be consulted about every single decision they make they are going to be disappointed because you can't run a business or a football club like that.
It’s a little bit self important and dramatic. I’m sure he’s put a lot of work into it, but even if it had been the best design ever I am not sure it would’ve been well received because the majority of people don’t want it to change. The owners admitted it was a mistake and in reality it’s a minor issue. |
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It's probably not a vector graphic which can be sized to any scale desired. It works on screen, mostly as is but isn't fit for purpose if you're producing large prints/
Is the work involved in converting images into svg from say a jpeg a costly job? |
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It's not really a statement is it - he's not an employee. It's basically a long and angry tweet. From someone who is really drunk off he's being pulled apart for trying to contribute. It's prickly and terse and written in anger but he's not in comms is he? He's a designer. Who despite having a successful career and working thousands of miles away tried to do something to help Grimsby Town Football Club and in return gets this excrement.
You talk about the 'most recognisable thing to outsiders' being changed. Tell me what negative impact that flag will have on anybody or convince me anyone who doesn't support Town would even spot it. As opposed to the clear positives and benefits that have been explained more than once but people repeatedly choose to ignore.
Rich Lyons might be an bottom or he might be a great bloke. I have no idea. But I hate that he's tried to do something to help and is being treated like this. And I really hate the idea that 1878, who have acknowledged they copulated this up, might think it would be easier to have left us rotting in the past with our hand drawn badge and John Fenty. If you want them to change things and make them better then you won't like everything they do and they will make mistakes. And if people want to be consulted about every single decision they make they are going to be disappointed because you can't run a business or a football club like that.
Para 1: he literally describes it as a statement. He needs to get a thicker skin in all honesty - he’s not talking to San Franciscan tech types now. A lot of football fans will tell you in no uncertain terms what they think. Para 3: Sick of seeing this argument that we need consulting on every decision. Fair Games pillars or whatever they call it clearly states that badges are one thing that needs fan input. They’ve broken a rule they help write themselves and have royally copulated it ever since. |
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Is the work involved in converting images into svg from say a jpeg a costly job?
It highly depends, but yes, it's very time consuming to recreate an image that scales into a format like an svg. |
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It highly depends, but yes, it's very time consuming to recreate an image that scales into a format like an svg.
So depending on the poll results if they end up having to get the old crest image converted (I have no idea of the current format), would you hazard a guess we could be talking hundreds or even thousands of pounds to do that? Or is there cheaper route. |
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So depending on the poll results if they end up having to get the old crest image converted (I have no idea of the current format), would you hazard a guess we could be talking hundreds or even thousands of pounds to do that? Or is there cheaper route.
I could recreate it in half a day, so no it's certainly not a costly job in hours, but I am a fan and would do it for free if it's something the club needed. This is why I said a few pages back that it's baffling that it isn't already in a scableable format and if it isn't then it should've been done 15 years ago. |
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I could recreate it in half a day, so no it's certainly not a costly job in hours, but I am a fan and would do it for free if it's something the club needed. This is why I said a few pages back that it's baffling that it isn't already in a scableable format and if it isn't then it should've been done 15 years ago.
Fair play to you 👍 Its good to know this won't end up costing the club either way the result pans out. |
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Got to feel sorry for the designer. A Town fan trying to contribute to the club should be welcomed. After spending so much time and effort here, I think he is right to feel aggrieved.
I lay culpability for this mess with the club. The assumption that the new badge is a fait accompli, the subsequent vote, the commitment to digitise the original if that wins has just been one miss fire after another.
The end result is likely to be a digitised version of the original, where the designer, the club and the fans all walk away from this mess frustrated and annoyed. Ultimately everyone loses.
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Fair play to you 👍 Its good to know this won't end up costing the club either way the result pans out.
If it stays with the current design then a 1:1 it is quite a simple job, you aren't creating anything new, you just have to ensure you're careful in the reproduction. You could in theory as the design is already fairly geometric, use a programme trace the lines and the designer work over the top of it. It's honestly really simple, which is why I find it very hard to believe that this isn't already the case with our badge and a part of me feels that the our normal badge assets for the team is fine, but without working with the assets I can't say for sure. |
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BTW while we’re fannying about arguing about a flag on a badge on a shirt lots of other supporters of clubs in our league and similar clubs are on the way back from or looking forward to a day out in the 3rd round of the FA Cup, arguably the biggest day for the pyramid in the domestic calendar, context is interesting if nothing else.
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Got to feel sorry for the designer. A Town fan trying to contribute to the club should be welcomed. After spending so much time and effort here, I think he is right to feel aggrieved.
I lay culpability for this mess with the club. The assumption that the new badge is a fait accompli, the subsequent vote, the commitment to digitise the original if that wins has just been one miss fire after another.
The end result is likely to be a digitised version of the original, where the designer, the club and the fans all walk away from this mess frustrated and annoyed. Ultimately everyone loses.
The saddest thing about all of this is that a lot of well meaning intentions, not to mention a lot of hard work, have all been undone by a series of sloppy comms which have left no party in all of this looking good. Personally, I think that 90% of Rich Lyons’ redesigned badge is brilliant. It’s basically our old badge with all of the kinks and inconsistencies ironed out, all using modern tools and techniques. It was close to being perfect for me. But it’s just the flag, and the space above it, doesn’t work for what seems like an overwhelming majority. That feedback seemed pretty clear from the beginning, and should have led to the club speaking to Rich about taking on board that feedback and creating an alternative ‘enhanced version’. I don’t care what level of designer you are, your work will always be subject to stakeholder feedback. That feedback may be communicated differently when the stakeholders are the brand team of a Silicon Valley tech company rather than the fans of an unfashionable football club from a working class town on the east coast of England, but both types of feedback are equal regardless. The condescending and somewhat righteous tone of that pseudo-statement didn’t help. We are now in a position whereby the fans are disgruntled, the board is disgruntled and a talented Town fan who committed his spare time to the cause is disgruntled. Not because his skills aren’t appreciated and his work wasn’t good, but because the comms surrounding it have been pretty appalling by all. And I think we all hoped and thought those days were behind us. The designer’s work is now at serious risk of being consigned to the bin, or the trash can as they say in California. That shouldn’t be. It was a huge step in the right direction, with a few easily addressable misgivings. I would implore both club and designer to get together and deliver a further revised version of the modernised badge, sans-flag, and include that as part of any final vote. I honestly think most people would get on board with that. I wasn’t angry that the badge was changed in the first place, but I will be angry if a lot of great work unnecessarily goes to waste due to the stubbornness of the club and the man who painstakingly undertook it. Not because the badge is important, but because the whole handling of this affair drives an early wedge between fans and board when things had been like a fúcking love-in just a few weeks ago. It sets a tone, a tone we could do well without. Particularly IF we continue to slide down the league with the continuation of a tricky run of fixtures in the weeks ahead. Can we not just sort this out, reasonably and amicably, as business people, as board members, as Silicon Valley designers, and as bloody football fans. This has quickly escalated into a right fúcking mess, and an entirely avoidable one at that. I remain well behind the ownership, what they are trying to do and all they stand for, but this has to go down as a “must do better”. Sort it out. |
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Pretty much exactly what Poojah said if I wasn’t as blunt/lazy.
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I think my irritation is impacting my ability to explain myself more eloquently. I don't disagree with the majority of what you say Poojah. I also don't particularly love the flag or think the comms have been handled well. I too think Rich Lyons 'statement' this afternoon is at best prickly and unhelpful and expect the board think so too though they'll be too professional to say so.
We are talking about somebody who has voluntarily tried to fix something so what you're actually asking is can he now do more unpaid work to make it just how you want it. Maybe he should have a thicker skin but surely people can empathise that he must feel a bit excrement about this and the club are now in an increasingly horrible position of trying to balance not offending him whilst satisfying the supporters who aren't happy. Anyone who listened to the DN35 podcast will have heard JS saying they know they cocked it up but just didn't think this would be regarded as a significant change. They also thought the Mariners Trust board members support would mean more than it has. On the basis of everything else they've done I will happily give them the benefit of the doubt.
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Wasn’t going to say anything but what the heck.
Aren’t there any grown ups in the room?
Can someone accept the fact that the flag has drunk people off? Can someone please digitise the existing badge? Can someone pay someone to do it?
Move on.
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I think my irritation is impacting my ability to explain myself more eloquently. I don't disagree with the majority of what you say Poojah. I also don't particularly love the flag or think the comms have been handled well. I too think Rich Lyons 'statement' this afternoon is at best prickly and unhelpful and expect the board think so too though they'll be too professional to say so.
We are talking about somebody who has voluntarily tried to fix something so what you're actually asking is can he now do more unpaid work to make it just how you want it. Maybe he should have a thicker skin but surely people can empathise that he must feel a bit excrement about this and the club are now in an increasingly horrible position of trying to balance not offending him whilst satisfying the supporters who aren't happy. Anyone who listened to the DN35 podcast will have heard JS saying they know they cocked it up but just didn't think this would be regarded as a significant change. They also thought the Mariners Trust board members support would mean more than it has. On the basis of everything else they've done I will happily give them the benefit of the doubt.
Personally, I’d be very proud if something I spent a significant amount of personal time on, and was able to do in the first place as a result of years of hard work, education and commercial experience, became the club I love’s most prominent insignia. I can’t speak for Rich, but I would imagine that played a part in his original decision to take this project on of his own accord. Where we’re at now, it seems, is that there’s a good chance we end up reverting to a ‘digitised’ version of the old badge, whatever that means. I just think that would be a shame. My career has since moved in a different direction, but I spent my early professional years as a designer, albeit not to anywhere Rich’s level. I do know though that sometimes you produce something which you’re really proud of, and think is absolutely perfect. I also know how galling it is when then client disagrees, and wants to make changes. Sometimes, you might feel, unjustifiably. It hurts to take to editing something that you already passionately believe is perfect, and have to make it less so in your opinion. But there’s an element of “the customer’s always right”, and sometimes you have to swallow your pride. If I were in his position, having spent no doubt countless hours already, I’d want to bite my tongue, find a compromise that appealed to the majority and ensure that my work sat loud and proud on the chests of our players for the next couple of decades or so. But that’s just me. |
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I don't think any of that is unfair Poojah. Maybe he's a better designer than you were but lacks your emotional intelligence. Or maybe it's easier to be calm and rational if you're a little more removed from it all than he is.
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I don't think any of that is unfair Poojah. Maybe he's a better designer than you were but lacks your emotional intelligence. Or maybe it's easier to be calm and rational if you're a little more removed from it all than he is.
Probably the latter. In terms of emotional intelligence, any time I lose an argument with the wife my typical response is to go and take a sh it in her side of the wardrobe. So, yeah, probably not that. |
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😂 Maybe just release a statement on Twitter next time?
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😂 Maybe just release a statement on Twitter next time?
Where’s the dignity in that? |
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Wasn’t going to say anything but what the heck.
Aren’t there any grown ups in the room?
Can someone accept the fact that the flag has drunk people off? Can someone please digitise the existing badge? Can someone pay someone to do it?
Move on.
Thought you was taking time out Codger or was it someone else? |
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It's probably best to draw a line under this once the vote has concluded, even if that means keeping the flag (that would mean a majority have voted for it, after all). Hopefully this one gets chalked up to a hard lesson in how to communicate effectively with supporters. While some people have probably got over-emotional about this and left Rich feeling a bit unappreciated, our badge and colours form part of our intrinsic identity as GTFC supporters and we've a right to feel protective about them. It's our 150th anniversary in 2028 and it would be nice to design a new badge - with fans consulted, of course - for that occasion. That would also mean that whichever badge gets chosen in the vote will only have to last 6 years anyway. |
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So are we having the flag or not, I'm lost with it all?
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So are we having the flag or not, I'm lost with it all?
We're having a referendum. |
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Personally, I’d be very proud if something I spent a significant amount of personal time on, and was able to do in the first place as a result of years of hard work, education and commercial experience, became the club I love’s most prominent insignia. I can’t speak for Rich, but I would imagine that played a part in his original decision to take this project on of his own accord.
Where we’re at now, it seems, is that there’s a good chance we end up reverting to a ‘digitised’ version of the old badge, whatever that means. I just think that would be a shame.
My career has since moved in a different direction, but I spent my early professional years as a designer, albeit not to anywhere Rich’s level. I do know though that sometimes you produce something which you’re really proud of, and think is absolutely perfect.
I also know how galling it is when then client disagrees, and wants to make changes. Sometimes, you might feel, unjustifiably. It hurts to take to editing something that you already passionately believe is perfect, and have to make it less so in your opinion.
But there’s an element of “the customer’s always right”, and sometimes you have to swallow your pride.
If I were in his position, having spent no doubt countless hours already, I’d want to bite my tongue, find a compromise that appealed to the majority and ensure that my work sat loud and proud on the chests of our players for the next couple of decades or so.
But that’s just me.
One big lesson in being a successful designer is to not be precious over of your work. It will and should be changed if key stake holders have thoughts and feelings as to how the design takes shape, this is something you learn very early only as a designer as you will encounter this. |
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I can't wait till we start playing footy again. Roll on Tuesday.
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We're having a referendum.
I vote to leave it as it is. |
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| HerveJosse |
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Read Bob Lincoln’s book last night the first history of the club published in 1912..The clue is in the title
Grimsby Town Football Club 1879 - 1912
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We're having a referendum.
Where will that be placed on the badge? |
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Read Bob Lincoln’s book last night the first history of the club published in 1912..The clue is in the title
Grimsby Town Football Club 1879 - 1912
He got the title wrong then. |
| And when you fall back into the mud it hurts a lot.
No! None of it was true, none of those things we thought we could see existed at all.
All that was really there was still more misery
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It's probably best to draw a line under this once the vote has concluded, even if that means keeping the flag (that would mean a majority have voted for it, after all). Hopefully this one gets chalked up to a hard lesson in how to communicate effectively with supporters. While some people have probably got over-emotional about this and left Rich feeling a bit unappreciated, our badge and colours form part of our intrinsic identity as GTFC supporters and we've a right to feel protective about them. It's our 150th anniversary in 2028 and it would be nice to design a new badge - with fans consulted, of course - for that occasion. That would also mean that whichever badge gets chosen in the vote will only have to last 6 years anyway.
Bit in bold........ if we go drawing lines under it that will start another debate won't it? |
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He got the title wrong then.
The author played for both Grimsby Pelham in 1878 and Grimsby Town in 1879 and he doesn’t regard one as a continuation of the other. |
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| jamesgtfc |
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The author played for both Grimsby Pelham in 1878 and Grimsby Town in 1879 and he doesn’t regard one as a continuation of the other.
We haven't finished debating whether or not our founding year should be on our badge and you now tell us there is a separate debate to be had about our founding year! |
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The author played for both Grimsby Pelham in 1878 and Grimsby Town in 1879 and he doesn’t regard one as a continuation of the other.
And he is/was wrong. Grimsby Pelham was not dissolved and a new club founded, it changed it's name. As did Small Heath, Newton Heath, Thames Iron Works, West Bromwich Strollers, Singers FC and many more. |
| And when you fall back into the mud it hurts a lot.
No! None of it was true, none of those things we thought we could see existed at all.
All that was really there was still more misery
Emile Zola |
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| HerveJosse |
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And he is/was wrong. Grimsby Pelham was not dissolved and a new club founded, it changed it's name. As did Small Heath, Newton Heath, Thames Iron Works, West Bromwich Strollers, Singers FC and many more.
Just coincidence that I read the book last night I hadn’t even noticed the title year until I read the first part of the book . In short a club then was not a club as we know it no infrastructure no league played in just 11 blokes getting together to play friendlies and enter the Lincolnshire Cup. Several teams in Grimsby did this at this time and it is unclear which came first various names are mentioned. Teams rarely lasted more then a year and new ones were formed. He played for Grimsby Pelham in 1878 and Grimsby Town in 1879 as did some others. Presumambly his views have some merit as he was there. It’s a good read for those interested in Heritage. for the fist ten years our main target was the Lincolnshire Cup where we made varying progress before Iinevitably being beaten by the might Spilsby who were the best team in Lincolnshire throughout the 1880s. |
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| Fillipe Noche |
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At the risk of sounding thick and stupid, can someone please explain to me what digitising out badge means please. Because from what I can see, the existing badge is already being used widely in all sorts of forms of digital media. Including on websites, social network, physical printed hard copy and on TV and in videos???
So what more can we do with any of the designs when digitised, that we cannot do in its current format ?
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| Meza |
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At the risk of sounding thick and stupid, can someone please explain to me what digitising out badge means please. Because from what I can see, the existing badge is already being used widely in all sorts of forms of digital media. Including on websites, social network, physical printed hard copy and on TV and in videos???
So what more can we do with any of the designs when digitised, that we cannot do in its current format ?
its more to do with the size the image was done in, and so when adding an the image to a website, document etc the image becomes stretched/distorted due to the pixels. I think I know in my job (software ERP specialist) we use images and some have to be redone for digitial. Having said that im not a designer and have only done basic stuff. But it would be something to do with that. |
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| Zero_as_a_limit |
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| davmariner |
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Don’t like Rich Lyons’ statement and think the comms and pr from the club has been handled really poorly.
I do think the trust reps on the board are getting away with this a bit too easily, whilst the criticism has been levelled at the designer and owners. Where were they in all of this? Surely they must have been pushing for fan consultation for such a change? Don’t we have an SLO that is supposed to be the bridge between the supporters and the board?
It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to anticipate that changing anything to do with the fabric and identity of the club could potentially bring controversy and backlash. It’s not like there isn’t precedent for these issues in the world of football.
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| Up The Mariners! |
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| ginnywings |
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Recovering Alcoholic Posts: 28,141
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At the risk of sounding thick and stupid, can someone please explain to me what digitising out badge means please. Because from what I can see, the existing badge is already being used widely in all sorts of forms of digital media. Including on websites, social network, physical printed hard copy and on TV and in videos???
So what more can we do with any of the designs when digitised, that we cannot do in its current format ?
Something to do with pixies or summat. |
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