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DB
January 1, 2022, 2:48pm
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Quoted from pen penfras


But you said crowd size means feck all. It clearly doesn't and over a long period clubs roughly appear in the pyramid in order of attendance. Whether that is deemed as success or not is one thing, but the fans that think we should be a top L1 side with occasional visits to the Championship are deluded. Even when we were there we were punching above our weight, but lots of places have embraced football in the last 25 years that have much more potential than a small, poor fishing town in an isolated area.


The only deluded person on her is YOU for maintaining your support for Fenty. In those 25 years, you mention he was in charge of 17 of them. You might like the club being in this sh!ty league but I and many others don't.

There is nothing wrong in hoping for a Championship yoyo club or maintaining a L1 top spot, what is wrong is deranged people like you not wanting the very best for the club and true supporters.



You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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pen penfras
January 1, 2022, 3:03pm

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Quoted from Limerick Mariner


Sorry but that's rubbish. Why do clubs like Fleetwood, Morcambe, Crawley and Stevenage have very little support. When Burnley, Preston and Luton were languishing, they didn't have attendances anywhere near as low as these clubs. Remove the Oyston factor from Blackpool and suddenly they are getting 10k crowds. A long history and tradition of support still matters - alot. If we had stadium like Bloomfield Road is now the fans would back a succesful team in droves. Unfortunately we can't redevelop in situ like Burnley, Preston and Blackpool have.



2 small towns in the middle of nowhere and 2 smallish towns near London is not bucking that trend. Plus I didn't say history means nothing to supporters, but it doesn't make you a big club because once upon a time you achieved something that even at the time was above where you should realistically be.

I agree that attendances would improve in a new stadium, but I can't really see them getting above 7k without a sustained period of winning. When we were in the championship, people didn't stay away because Blundell park was a dump, they stayed away because other than the 4k die hards, most people aren't that bothered and only want to turn up for big occasions or to see a team that's winning.
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Swansea_Mariner
January 1, 2022, 3:27pm
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We might as well pack it in if we are being told we can't aspire to be a competitive league one club FFS.

Nobody is being ostentatious and talking about us spending the best part of 20 years in the championship or the premiership.

Attendances now are across the board better than 20 years ago when we were in the Championship. We've managed several 6k gates at level 5 in a dilapidated stadium this season, if we ever manage to rise back to that level and end up with a brand spanking new stadium I've little doubt we would fare much better attendance wise than we did in the 80s and 90s.
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Limerick Mariner
January 1, 2022, 4:36pm
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Quoted from pen penfras


2 small towns in the middle of nowhere and 2 smallish towns near London is not bucking that trend. Plus I didn't say history means nothing to supporters, but it doesn't make you a big club because once upon a time you achieved something that even at the time was above where you should realistically be.

I agree that attendances would improve in a new stadium, but I can't really see them getting above 7k without a sustained period of winning. When we were in the championship, people didn't stay away because Blundell park was a dump, they stayed away because other than the 4k die hards, most people aren't that bothered and only want to turn up for big occasions or to see a team that's winning.


Lancaster district - population 144k - but I expect most football fans support PNE or Burnley
Fylde coast population 350k - enough for 2 teams to comfortably average circa 5k plus instead nearly everyone supports Blackpool and feck all support Fleetwood.

Stevenage district population 90k - more than Scunthorpe but even Scunthorpe muster more fans - I expect most football fans in Stevenage support Luton, Watford or wear north London premiership club shirts whilst sitting on their sofa.

Crawley population 114k - full of Palace and Brighton fans.

I'll give you where history matters less though - the players perception of the place. Given equal pay and club status GTFC's history isn't going persuade a player to come to the remote east coast instead of Stevenage or Crawley. Carlisle, Plymouth and also clubs like Middlesborough and Sunderland perhaps impacted by this. But wasn't it ever thus? Haven't we had to pay players that little bit more to come Gy than more centrally located clubs?

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pen penfras
January 1, 2022, 4:53pm

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Quoted from Limerick Mariner


Lancaster district - population 144k - but I expect most football fans support PNE or Burnley
Fylde coast population 350k - enough for 2 teams to comfortably average circa 5k plus instead nearly everyone supports Blackpool and feck all support Fleetwood.

Stevenage district population 90k - more than Scunthorpe but even Scunthorpe muster more fans - I expect most football fans in Stevenage support Luton, Watford or wear north London premiership club shirts whilst sitting on their sofa.

Crawley population 114k - full of Palace and Brighton fans.

I'll give you where history matters less though - the players perception of the place. Given equal pay and club status GTFC's history isn't going persuade a player to come to the remote east coast instead of Stevenage or Crawley. Carlisle, Plymouth and also clubs like Middlesborough and Sunderland perhaps impacted by this. But wasn't it ever thus? Haven't we had to pay players that little bit more to come Gy than more centrally located clubs?



Fleetwood as a percentage of the town to fans attending is the 2nd best supported club in the bottom 2 divisions after FGR. Morecambe are in the top 10. We're well supported by this metric too.

I don't get what point you're trying to make though. Fans aren't going to stop supporting actual big clubs for a slightly more local small club just because they have a good couple of seasons. The point is that past success isn't what makes a club big, it's supporters that actually get off their bottom and go watch games. Of which we've not had enough in the last 30 years to be anything more than a lower league side.

The bizarre notion that fans will just start attending when some vague condition is met, but it didn't happen when it was previously met is lost on me. We'd get more fans if we consistently won, but after 2 promotions, we'd need huge amounts of money to keep winning.
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GollyGTFC
January 1, 2022, 4:53pm

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Quoted from Limerick Mariner


Stevenage district population 90k - more than Scunthorpe but even Scunthorpe muster more fans - I expect most football fans in Stevenage support Luton, Watford or wear north London premiership club shirts whilst sitting on their sofa.


I doubt you would see a Luton or Watford shirt in Stevenage. Stevenage & other new towns (including Crawley) were largely populated with people moving out of the poorer areas of London in the generations following the war, so it was mainly Arsenal, Tottenham, West Ham & Millwall supporters and those clubs still have large following in places like Stevenage, Harlow, Hemel Hempstead, Welwyn Garden City, Hatfield, Basildon etc...
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Limerick Mariner
January 1, 2022, 6:19pm
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Quoted from GollyGTFC


I doubt you would see a Luton or Watford shirt in Stevenage. Stevenage & other new towns (including Crawley) were largely populated with people moving out of the poorer areas of London in the generations following the war, so it was mainly Arsenal, Tottenham, West Ham & Millwall supporters and those clubs still have large following in places like Stevenage, Harlow, Hemel Hempstead, Welwyn Garden City, Hatfield, Basildon etc...


Good point, but you also won't see many Stevenage shirts in Stevenage. I lived in Bedford for a bit years ago - a fair number of Luton fans there, probably more Chelsea though.

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Limerick Mariner
January 1, 2022, 6:42pm
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Quoted from pen penfras


Fleetwood as a percentage of the town to fans attending is the 2nd best supported club in the bottom 2 divisions after FGR. Morecambe are in the top 10. We're well supported by this metric too.

I don't get what point you're trying to make though. Fans aren't going to stop supporting actual big clubs for a slightly more local small club just because they have a good couple of seasons. The point is that past success isn't what makes a club big, it's supporters that actually get off their bottom and go watch games. Of which we've not had enough in the last 30 years to be anything more than a lower league side.

The bizarre notion that fans will just start attending when some vague condition is met, but it didn't happen when it was previously met is lost on me. We'd get more fans if we consistently won, but after 2 promotions, we'd need huge amounts of money to keep winning.


That history matters - particularly in the ability to bounce back from the bad times - like Blackpool, and going back a few years Burnley and they are just examples I've used already - there are loads. It's not a bizarre notion that a nice new stadium attracts a big increase in footfall, nor is a new stadium a vague condition. We've debated it time and time again on here and the evidence is everywhere in football in this country - new stadium + even a moderate rise up the football pyramid and you get thousands of extra fans if you have the historical support in the town / city plus hinterland. The exceptions are bizarre - like the idea of building a 25k all-seater stadium on a roundabout outside Darlington...

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Heswall Mariner
January 1, 2022, 7:45pm

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Bournemouth - hardly a hotbed of football enthusiasts - refurbished Dean Court & retained their ground capacity  of some 11k. They reached the pinnacle of the Premiership & look like returning there next season. That methinks is the model we should be aspiring to.
In my lifetime our average attendances peaked  in the late 50's /early 60's around 10k.












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ginnywings
January 1, 2022, 8:03pm

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Quoted from Heswall Mariner
Bournemouth - hardly a hotbed of football enthusiasts - refurbished Dean Court & retained their ground capacity  of some 11k. They reached the pinnacle of the Premiership & look like returning there next season. That methinks is the model we should be aspiring to.
In my lifetime our average attendances peaked  in the late 50's /early 60's around 10k.


But gates of 11k didn't get them there. Massive investment did in the shape of Maxim Demin, a Russian who is worth about a billion quid.











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