Bristol City Finances

I’m confused (dot com) but doesn’t FFP come into play, surely if their annual loses are wrote off each year then FFP is pointless. They could spend (lose) another £100 million and there’s no consequence ?

No normal business would run at such ridiculous and deliberate loss making levels. I cant see any well run club with balanced outgoings ever being able to compete in the championship.

It filters down to our level too. Three of our rivals are fielding £250k strikers. They are all currently above us. But that is who we are competing against. But the sad fact is that, without going crazy, if you want to be successful, you really have no choice but to invest to some extent.

We have been promoted just twice in the last forty years. In 1998 it was as a result of spending around £1million to bring Groves, Donovan, and Burnett to the club.  In 2016 it was after we spent £50k on Bogle.

I think we can all agree that our presence in this division is due to sustained under investment in the playing staff over many years. In my opinion it is only investment in some decent players that will get us out it. That seems to me to be the message looking back over the last forty years.

I understand the arguments about sustainability, but unless we invest in good players all we are going to sustain is our position in the 5th tier.  Sustainability come through success on the pitch, which brings in higher crowds and more commercial income.

I'm afraid that relying on  free transfers all the time will probably have the same results as it has for the last few decades.

Who’d be a chairman eh!?!?

Or custodian.


Don’t they get some form of revenue from Bristol Bears rugby?

Quoted from RonMariner

No normal business would run at such ridiculous and deliberate loss making levels. I cant see any well run club with balanced outgoings ever being able to compete in the championship.

It filters down to our level too. Three of our rivals are fielding £250k strikers. They are all currently above us. But that is who we are competing against. But the sad fact is that, without going crazy, if you want to be successful, you really have no choice but to invest to some extent.

We have been promoted just twice in the last forty years. In 1998 it was as a result of spending around £1million to bring Groves, Donovan, and Burnett to the club.  In 2016 it was after we spent £50k on Bogle.

I think we can all agree that our presence in this division is due to sustained under investment in the playing staff over many years. In my opinion it is only investment in some decent players that will get us out it. That seems to me to be the message looking back over the last forty years.

I understand the arguments about sustainability, but unless we invest in good players all we are going to sustain is our position in the 5th tier.  Sustainability come through success on the pitch, which brings in higher crowds and more commercial income.

I'm afraid that relying on  free transfers all the time will probably have the same results as it has for the last few decades.

The Championship is completely ruined by parachute payments. A freshly relegated Premier League club receives around £45m in their first season after relegation. The Championship clubs not in receipt of parchute payments receive a PL solidarity payment of just under £5m. How on earth can clubs not in receipt of parachute payments compete when they start the season £40m down on newly relegated clubs, over £30m down on clubs relegated the season before that & £12m down on clubs relegated the year before that.

The only way is for owners to fund huge losses to try and compete with those clubs with the massive financial advantage of parachute payments.

Last season Watford & Norwich were promoted straight back up after receiving a year 1 parachute payment. The season before Fulham were promoted with a year 1 parachute payment & West Brom were promoted with a year 2 parachute payment.

This season there are 5 clubs in the Championship receiving a parachute payment...
Bournemouth (currently 1st) - year 2 payment (approx £36m)
Fulham (currently 2nd) - year 1 payment (approx £45m)
West Brom (currently 4th) - year 1 payment (approx £45m)
Huddersfield (currently 6th) - year 3 payment (approx £16m)
Sheff Utd (currently 11th) - year 1 payment (approx £45m)

And there you have it. The clubs receiving parachute payments all doing well- 4 in the promotion or play-off zone and the other in the top half with games in hand to get into the play-offs.

5 clubs receive a total of around £187m in parachute payments and the other 19 clubs in the Championship receiving just under £95m between them).

How on earth can any ambitious club such as Bristol City compete and deliver good financial results?

Quoted from GollyGTFC

The Championship is completely ruined by parachute payments. A freshly relegated Premier League club receives around £45m in their first season after relegation. The Championship clubs not in receipt of parchute payments receive a PL solidarity payment of just under £5m. How on earth can clubs not in receipt of parachute payments compete when they start the season £40m down on newly relegated clubs, over £30m down on clubs relegated the season before that & £12m down on clubs relegated the year before that.

The only way is for owners to fund huge losses to try and compete with those clubs with the massive financial advantage of parachute payments.

Last season Watford & Norwich were promoted straight back up after receiving a year 1 parachute payment. The season before Fulham were promoted with a year 1 parachute payment & West Brom were promoted with a year 2 parachute payment.

This season there are 5 clubs in the Championship receiving a parachute payment...
Bournemouth (currently 1st) - year 2 payment (approx £36m)
Fulham (currently 2nd) - year 1 payment (approx £45m)
West Brom (currently 4th) - year 1 payment (approx £45m)
Huddersfield (currently 6th) - year 3 payment (approx £16m)
Sheff Utd (currently 11th) - year 1 payment (approx £45m)

And there you have it. The clubs receiving parachute payments all doing well- 4 in the promotion or play-off zone and the other in the top half with games in hand to get into the play-offs.

5 clubs receive a total of around £187m in parachute payments and the other 19 clubs in the Championship receiving just under £95m between them).

How on earth can any ambitious club such as Bristol City compete and deliver good financial results?

Most of the money from parachute payments goes to funding contracts and outstanding transfer fee instalments on players signed in a failed attempt to maintain a Premier League place. Without this security  the bottom third of  the Premier League would not be able to complete at all and we would have a Premier League like France or Spain where only games between a small number of elite clubs matter and the rest could not compete. The football model most of us on here grew up with is long gone and while it is superficially unattractive we have the best two leagues in the world in terms of competitive product as a result so don’t knock it . Equally any attempt to draw any learning from it for 4th and 5th tier teams is pointless irs a different game now.In the long run the only way for football to balance the books is to reduce the obscene transfer of wealth from customers to  average players whether it be through entrance fees or tv subscriptions topped up on the way by owners with more money then they know what to do with.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Most of the money from parachute payments goes to funding contracts and outstanding transfer fee instalments on players signed in a failed attempt to maintain a Premier League place. Without this security  the bottom third of  the Premier League would not be able to complete at all and we would have a Premier League like France or Spain where only games between a small number of elite clubs matter and the rest could not compete. The football model most of us on here grew up with is long gone and while it is superficially unattractive we have the best two leagues in the world in terms of competitive product as a result so don’t knock it . Equally any attempt to draw any learning from it for 4th and 5th tier teams is pointless irs a different game now.In the long run the only way for football to balance the books is to reduce the obscene transfer of wealth from customers to  average players whether it be through entrance fees or tv subscriptions topped up on the way by owners with more money then they know what to do with.

I’m not entirely sure we’re a million miles away from what you see in France or Spain anyway. Occasionally, you get a lower placed side beat a top club, the same happens here. In truth, outside of this country, much like the leagues you mention, nobody cares about Burnley v Norwich for instance, and in truth, neither do the premier league.

The fact that Bristol City even compete is testament to the desire and ambition. It may not be sustainable nor of sound business to just keep writing off significant losses but if we’re going to impose FFP correctly, you start at state owned clubs and those clubs who’s owners use the club to merely line their own pockets and asset strip (I know this isn’t strictly FFP, more an issue with fit and proper rules but you get my point.

Golly makes his point well and highlights that, in reality, we’ve already got a B team league or premier league two 2 with the championship as it is. If you throw clubs like Norwich in to the mix who will no doubt offer zero competition this season, come down, invest little, generate profit and a tidy sum for the owners and then ultimately go up after next season…I’m sure many a fan thinks it’s great but any Norwich fan saying they enjoy that uncompetitive season in the premier league every other year is a liar…

Quoted from aldi_01

I’m not entirely sure we’re a million miles away from what you see in France or Spain anyway. Occasionally, you get a lower placed side beat a top club, the same happens here. In truth, outside of this country, much like the leagues you mention, nobody cares about Burnley v Norwich for instance, and in truth, neither do the premier league.

The fact that Bristol City even compete is testament to the desire and ambition. It may not be sustainable nor of sound business to just keep writing off significant losses but if we’re going to impose FFP correctly, you start at state owned clubs and those clubs who’s owners use the club to merely line their own pockets and asset strip (I know this isn’t strictly FFP, more an issue with fit and proper rules but you get my point.

Golly makes his point well and highlights that, in reality, we’ve already got a B team league or premier league two 2 with the championship as it is. If you throw clubs like Norwich in to the mix who will no doubt offer zero competition this season, come down, invest little, generate profit and a tidy sum for the owners and then ultimately go up after next season…I’m sure many a fan thinks it’s great but any Norwich fan saying they enjoy that uncompetitive season in the premier league every other year is a liar…

Other then possibly Blackpool I am not sure there is any evidence of owners milking this system for their own benefit. The reference to Norwich while easy to assume isn’t borne out by facts when there last two sets of filed accounts show a profit of £2m for their last season in tha premiership and a loss of £33m for the season before in the championship with no directors remuneration or dividends paid.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Most of the money from parachute payments goes to funding contracts and outstanding transfer fee instalments on players signed in a failed attempt to maintain a Premier League place. Without this security  the bottom third of  the Premier League would not be able to complete at all and we would have a Premier League like France or Spain where only games between a small number of elite clubs matter and the rest could not compete. The football model most of us on here grew up with is long gone and while it is superficially unattractive we have the best two leagues in the world in terms of competitive product as a result so don’t knock it . Equally any attempt to draw any learning from it for 4th and 5th tier teams is pointless irs a different game now.In the long run the only way for football to balance the books is to reduce the obscene transfer of wealth from customers to  average players whether it be through entrance fees or tv subscriptions topped up on the way by owners with more money then they know what to do with.

Not true at all. The Championship is not competitive. The clubs in receipt of parachute payments have a massive advantage and have far more success than the other clubs. Norwich, West Brom & Fulham have accidentally developed a model of yoyo-ing between the 2 divisions and generally not attempting to be competitive in the PL whilst safe in the knowledge that they have 2 years guaranteed Parachute payments (3 if they stayed in the PL for a 2nd season) so that they can bounce back and start the cycle again.

A better solution would be to fund the entire English pyramid correctly so the cliff edges are removed that require huge parachute payments. It can't be right that Premier League clubs get 12 times more money than the majority of Championship clubs.

Championship clubs are rightly furious that Fulham can afford to pay a striker over £100,000 a week from their £36m parachute payment when his yearly wage (£5.5m) represents about 65% of the entire combined average TV money & Solidarity payment for the 19 clubs not receiving parachute payments. To put that in context Mitrovic is being paid more a week than Wycombe's entire weekly playing staff wage bill from last season in the Championship.

And an example of the way things are going in the Championship is that between seasons 2011-12 & 2016-17 the 18 promotion places were taken up by 9 clubs receiving parachute payments & 9 clubs not receiving them. In the 4 seasons since then (2017-18 to 2020-21) the 12 promotion places went to 8 clubs receiving parachute payments and just 4 not receiving them. And whilst we're only half way though this season it does seem highly likely at least 2 parachute payment clubs will be promoted this season too and possibly for the first time ever all 3 promotion places.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Other then possibly Blackpool I am not sure there is any evidence of owners milking this system for their own benefit. The reference to Norwich while easy to assume isn’t borne out by facts when there last two sets of filed accounts show a profit of £2m for their last season in tha premiership and a loss of £33m for the season before in the championship with no directors remuneration or dividends paid.

Norwich made a profit of £21.5m last season when they walked to promotion again despite them losing £30m of potential revenue because of COVID and despite investing £5m in work on Carrow Road & their training ground. They are also owed £54 by other football clubs of which half is due this current season. Norwich's finances are just fine even with their likely relegation this season. They have invested mainly in young players with resale value.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Not true at all. The Championship is not competitive. The clubs in receipt of parachute payments have a massive advantage and have far more success than the other clubs. Norwich, West Brom & Fulham have accidentally developed a model of yoyo-ing between the 2 divisions and generally not attempting to be competitive in the PL whilst safe in the knowledge that they have 2 years guaranteed Parachute payments (3 if they stayed in the PL for a 2nd season) so that they can bounce back and start the cycle again.

A better solution would be to fund the entire English pyramid correctly so the cliff edges are removed that require huge parachute payments. It can't be right that Premier League clubs get 12 times more money than the majority of Championship clubs.

Championship clubs are rightly furious that Fulham can afford to pay a striker over £100,000 a week from their £36m parachute payment when his yearly wage (£5.5m) represents about 65% of the entire combined average TV money & Solidarity payment for the 19 clubs not receiving parachute payments. To put that in context Mitrovic is being paid more a week than Wycombe's entire weekly playing staff wage bill from last season in the Championship.

And an example of the way things are going in the Championship is that between seasons 2011-12 & 2016-17 the 18 promotion places were taken up by 9 clubs receiving parachute payments & 9 clubs not receiving them. In the 4 seasons since then (2017-18 to 2020-21) the 12 promotion places went to 8 clubs receiving parachute payments and just 4 not receiving them. And whilst we're only half way though this season it does seem highly likely at least 2 parachute payment clubs will be promoted this season too and possibly for the first time ever all 3 promotion places.

Competitive is not just about which teams finish in the first three each year it is about your 46 games a year and whether you are going to see a good game of football each week which either team can win  and if your team doesn’t turn up they are going to come a cropper. The fact that second tier football is watched by average crowds of twenty thousand  plus many times that of any other country speaks for itself .