Just Back

Just back in the bar upstairs

No cutting edge. Simple as that.

Insufficient good chances created, and it doesn’t matter who your striker is, if you lack a cutting edge to create chances, no striker is going to score

Did miss an open goal though. Thought Chesterfield looked like exactly the sort of side that wins 5th division titles.  

0-0 would have been about right, but that's why you pay quarter of a million for a striker, he was the difference. Only a couple of chances for both sides all game. We matched them all game but were toothless.

On a side note, anyone else notice that their keeper never even tried to play a short ball, he just launched it every time. All teams these days will try to play out from the back, they are the first team for a long time to just launch it.

Apart from his goal I thought tshimanga was bang average but goals win games so is worth the money. Very disappointed with the lack of creativity and as usual, the timing of the subs.

Another inept performance, zero creativity, felt sorry for young Sam bell trying to feed off that service. Substitutions, too little too late. Mid table by Xmas

Quoted from Abdul19

Did miss an open goal though. Thought Chesterfield looked like exactly the sort of side that wins 5th division titles.  

Yep, they looked very 'efficient'. Big, strong defenders allowed to bully our forwards by the 5th division referee, very athletic in midfield with one or two who can also play a bit, didn't give us a second in possession and a striker with a knack of being in the right place at the right time. No brilliance, just efficiency. I think they were a yard quicker than us in most areas of the field and this allowed them to play that way. How they would fare if Tshimanga picked up an injury, I'm not so sure.

2 chances for us. Crookes and clifton. Both poor misses

2 for them. 1 great save. 1 goalscorer

Hurst boo’ed at the end

Close game , somebody who can finish made the difference , when a draw would have been fair result … not a bad performance , not a good one … certainly not time to turn on the team or manager

You can see why they are top. Very organised and efficient, with someone who can bury a chance.

We didn't create much because they didn't let us and we could have done with McAtee and possibly Sousa or Bapaga. Our midfield was a bit light on creative players today, but suspensions and injuries are biting at the moment.

We won’t finish above them

Several 6 out of 10 performances. For work rate alone MoM has to be Clifton or Bell. Very little quality on either side other than a quality finish. Serious changes needed to get in the playoffs probably at top too.

Why oh why did we set up with 5 at the back? Obviously typical PH
Worry about the oppositionfirst and foremost. No wingers gave their full backs an easy game . Give them something to worry about. We defended well but that was all you could say as no threat going forward  . The foul that led to the goal wasn't and deprived us of a point that our hard work deserved.
We are the only team in the pyramid without a number 9 and that is nothing short of disgraceful and it shows .

Quoted from barrattstandman

Why oh why did we set up with 5 at the back? Obviously typical PH
Worry about the oppositionfirst and foremost. No wingers gave their full backs an easy game . Give them something to worry about. We defended well but that was all you could say as no threat going forward  . The foul that led to the goal wasn't and deprived us of a point that our hard work deserved.
We are the only team in the pyramid without a number 9 and that is nothing short of disgraceful and it shows .

It was a foul. And a flipping stupid one as the player was going nowhere

Why oh why did we set up with 5 at the back? Obviously typical PH
Worry about the oppositionfirst and foremost. No wingers gave their full backs an easy game . Give them something to worry about. We defended well but that was all you could say as no threat going forward  . The foul that led to the goal wasn't and deprived us of a point that our hard work deserved.
We are the only team in the pyramid without a number 9 and that is nothing short of disgraceful and it shows .

We have a number nine, LJL, but seriously we all know he is no longer good enough to be our main man.

Your only as good as your strikers as the saying goes..... True

Can't say we didn't have a couple of decent chances.

Was going to post Pearson as my MOTM before Tshimanga scored, floated free kick into the box and he got lucky as far as I could see.

Pearson had him in his pocket up until then.

Decent save from Crocombe first half, Macca might have trouble getting his place back for now.

Although the game in general looked poor I thought it was more of a case of two decent sides cancelling each other out.

A draw would have been a fair result in my opinion.

Quoted from barrattstandman

Why oh why did we set up with 5 at the back? Obviously typical PH
Worry about the oppositionfirst and foremost. No wingers gave their full backs an easy game . Give them something to worry about. We defended well but that was all you could say as no threat going forward  . The foul that led to the goal wasn't and deprived us of a point that our hard work deserved.
We are the only team in the pyramid without a number 9 and that is nothing short of disgraceful and it shows .

Hurst could have had Tshimanga, he says he could have had a championship striker a while ago but he said he wouldn't sign him as the money wasn't right. Isn't his money and another sacking and maybe his own career is over. I'm finding it hard to argue against dismissing him.

[quote=43]

Y
Yep, they looked very 'efficient'. Big, strong defenders allowed to bully our forwards by the 5th division referee                                                              We should have had our pal Carl Boyeson - he yellow carded half the players plus 1 red card at Orient                                                                                                  

I don’t know whether this is just an initial emotional reaction, I’m usually quite optimistic to be honest but I can’t get my head around people saying it was a close game, only the striker was the difference etc.

I thought the quality between the two sides was night and day. One team looked like they had a system, a plan, quality on the ball. The other team looked like we’d just met in the car park before hand, no plan, no ambition, no cohesion. It was hit and hope up to Bell and praying he had found a few yards space.

I’ve heard a few rumours of discontent behind the scenes but I just can’t understand how we’ve derailed so quickly. Something needs to change, fast.

Didn't someone once say "the best form of defense is attack"?
That lad bell put a shift in and longe king had a solid game,
Hurst to blame for our current run of bad results, aided and abetted by unprofessional behaviour away from the pitch by one or two players.
Maybe that's why the said players have obviously ability, but are playing non league football.
It will be a miracle if  we manage a play off spot.
Please Hurst, go to 4-4-2 and sort this shite out, or your time is up.

Game where the defence's were on top all of the match apart from the one goal that was gifted.
Draw would have been a fair result, and their crowd were nervously quiet untill they scored which says it all really.
I know we are disappointed, but we were more than a measure for them and I for one have not given up the playoffs yet

Quoted from dapperz fun pub

We won’t finish above them

No excrement Sherlock!!

Quoted from barrattstandman

Why oh why did we set up with 5 at the back? Obviously typical PH
Worry about the oppositionfirst and foremost. No wingers gave their full backs an easy game . Give them something to worry about. We defended well but that was all you could say as no threat going forward  . The foul that led to the goal wasn't and deprived us of a point that our hard work deserved.
We are the only team in the pyramid without a number 9 and that is nothing short of disgraceful and it shows .

We didn’t

We had three at the back with 2x attacking wing backs

I’ve arrived back in Yorkshire feeling that we will still be there abouts come the end of the season. Top of the league and we matched them, soft free kick was the difference. I will remain optimistic until we have our full strength squad out and I think we deserve nothing from a game, then I’ll join you all with the doom and gloom….. UTM!

Quoted from Garth

Game where the defence's were on top all of the match apart from the one goal that was gifted.
Draw would have been a fair result, and their crowd were nervously quiet untill they scored which says it all really.
I know we are disappointed, but we were more than a measure for them and I for one have not given up the playoffs yet

Which game did you watch? First half we were ok, but we didn’t get anywhere near them second half. We played five defenders and still had Revan and Sears on the bench.

When saw the team I thought this had  1 0 defeat all over it. Just wondering why Tower wasn't in the team if he's injured fair enough but hes been magnificent at the back. With none of the players who like having the ball at there feet like hunt, sousa mcatee and bagapa it really tells. 0 0 would of been OK but days like this for Chesterfield where they come away with 3 points is why leagues are won.

I still find it hilarious / utterly depressing that hurst signed LJL last season. Genuinely thought it was a wind up.

We need goals to keep us up so let’s sign LJL and Stefan Payne…

Signing LJL and bringing Hurst back was sooooo Grimsby.

Genuine question, is there a manager still managing with a more appalling win % in the top 5 leagues in the past 3 years than Paul Hurst?

Quoted from pontoonlew

Genuine question, is there a manager still managing with a more appalling win % in the top 5 leagues in the past 5 years than Paul Hurst?

Overall percentage or just recent?

You can look at statistics in many different ways.

If you set up at home for a nil nil while hoping to get a goal from somewhere you can’t complete when one chance for the opposition wins the game.

Quoted from ginnywings

Overall percentage or just recent?

You can look at statistics in many different ways.

Well recent, I appreciate the good jobs he’s done pre 2018 (I meant to put 3 years) but with Ipswich, Scunny and now here, the stats are absolutely appalling

Before anyone bemoans injuries suspensions as the cause they had 11 players unavailable today

Should have been 0-0 on balance of play nobody deserved to lose , we created very little but to be honest they wern't much better

Quoted from fishcake63

Should have been 0-0 on balance of play nobody deserved to lose , we created very little but to be honest they wern't much better

We might not have deserved to lose BUT WE DID! And in case you’ve forgot it’s wins and losses that matter. Seven losses out of eight It doesn’t matter how many of those you should have won/drawn the points remain the same.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Before anyone bemoans injuries suspensions as the cause they had 11 players unavailable today

I think the huge difference is that Chesterfield have a lot more strength in depth than us. 11 players unavailable and they look like a team that will be there or thereabouts come what May. They made sure we resorted the high balls and throw ins deep in our own half that they could win all day.

How many throw ins did we have first half level level with our own 18 yard box? The Chesterfield number 12 won the ball from just about all of them.

Not one throw in of theirs was taken where the ball went out. We are too honest and too nice. We need a really horrible, no nonsense central midfielder who wins absolutely everything.

Sorry but I'm not having setting up at home not to lose.
We were toothless upfront, sat back, put 8 men behind the ball and didn't want to attack.
If I'm honest, I feel for the players being instructed to play in that manner, it's awful to watch.
Early on In the season we played neat, tidy football, passed with purpose, pace and took the game to our opposition.
Now we're setting up, 5 at the back, midfield sitting just infront of the defence then a massive gap between them and the front lads.
If anyone now believes Hurst is the man to take us forward, it's time to give your head a wobble I'm afraid and I was very much pro Hurst..
Walked out today and everyone was saying the same thing, they've had enough of the negative tactics

1500 lost home fans since the Yeovil game tells it's own story, i want him to do well but the style we're playing and the results we're getting are doing Hurst no favours.

Quoted from pontoonlew

Well recent, I appreciate the good jobs he’s done pre 2018 (I meant to put 3 years) but with Ipswich, Scunny and now here, the stats are absolutely appalling

Can't argue with that.

Off out to get p1ssed. Night all.

I'm certainly no Hurst basher but the way the game panned out today was typical Hurst. We were set up not to get beat and the game was a really tight one, rather than be proactive and look to pull something off, he lets the game coast and then we go behind, enter the more attacking subs and we're chasing the game. Zero bravery and a possible inferiority complex. I understand keeping it tight to try and get a foothold etc but then you have to try something, especially at home, Hurst showed them far too much respect for too long in that game.

a gold star from me fishboy

I dont particularly have an issue with how we set up initially. They’re on fire at the moment, have the best striker in the league and on paper and in reality have a much better squad than us. On the flip side, we’ve got our best players out and we’re in diabolical form.

It’s the failing to change things to have a go at winning them on the 70ish min mark that’s frustrating.

I really do get people’s frustration and the points. But….we’ve got players unavailable, for illness, injury or suspension and confidence, for whatever reason, is shattered, so….I think, taking a pragmatic and balanced view, I can understand why we went with that shape. Clifton’s chance goes in and it’s a whole different scene tonight. I know ifs and buts don’t buy points, but I just don’t feel trigger happy. Getting rid of Hurst now would be a total reboot, and I’m not convinced that is the right thing to do on balance, and I’m as disappointed and p1ssed off as anyone. Think we need to hold on, stick together and persevere for now.
This isn’t Slade or Bognot territory where it’s evident that the squad is sh1t, nobody sees any method and where the man management and structure is all over the f@cking place. Our manager earned a championship job on merit recently. I can’t ignore that.

Quoted from chaos33

I really do get people’s frustration and the points. But….we’ve got players unavailable, for illness, injury or suspension and confidence, for whatever reason, is shattered, so….I think, taking a pragmatic and balanced view, I can understand why we went with that shape. Clifton’s chance goes in and it’s a whole different scene tonight. I know ifs and buts don’t buy points, but I just don’t feel trigger happy. Getting rid of Hurst now would be a total reboot, and I’m not convinced that is the right thing to do on balance, and I’m as disappointed and p1ssed off as anyone. Think we need to hold on, stick together and persevere for now.
This isn’t Slade or Bognot territory where it’s evident that the squad is sh1t, nobody sees any method and where the man management and structure is all over the f@cking place. Our manager earned a championship job on merit recently. I can’t ignore that.

19 wins in his last 100 games as a manager...let that sink in...

Quoted from oochiad

I’ve arrived back in Yorkshire feeling that we will still be there abouts come the end of the season. Top of the league and we matched them, soft free kick was the difference. I will remain optimistic until we have our full strength squad out and I think we deserve nothing from a game, then I’ll join you all with the doom and gloom….. UTM!

We were 4 points clear at the top but now we are in freefall. The forwards seemed as though they had been together for years with intricate passing especially between Mcatee and Sousa. Goals were coming from all positions of the park with the midfield pushing forward and supporting the forwards at every opportunity . Where has the flair gone ? - for me it got lost on the training pitch with tactics based on not losing with no thought to scoring goals  If we go behind we suddenly alter tactics and attack, similarly if a forward is red carded we seem to become more dangerous.  Let's attack, attack and attack especially at home and make B.P. our patch where others are feared to tread. At the moment we are boring and down right easy meat

Ok, well, I mean, that is stark and, without context, hard to oppose.

Quoted from Gaffer58

We have a number nine, LJL, but seriously we all know he is no longer good enough to be our main man.

I have no idea why Hurst gave him a 2 year contract as barmy as some of Holloway's contracts.

Worse than the performance was Hurst’s post match interview especially when he said if he were to sign a striker that would either mean replacing Ryan Taylor or changing our system. Well after watching that 90 minutes the system wants changing. We had no threat going forward and when we did get chance to deliver the ball into the box the crosses were appalling other than the ball for Clifton’s miss.

Crooked and Efete not suited to this system, not playing Towler meant we had no balance and no one to play a decent ball from the back. Ultimately our midfield just isn’t good enough and the early season promise from Fox seems to have disappeared as his distribution was very poor today. Thought Coke did ok but I have previously posted my thoughts on Clifton and am dumbfounded that some consider him MOM. I accept he works hard and makes good runs but his first touch is poor, he gives the ball away on a regular basis and isn’t the best passer of the ball. Add the sitter he missed and his failure to find Bell when breaking away in the second half and you have a number of reasons why he was nowhere near MOM.

The team lacked any sort of goal threat but despite this Bell had some great touches and looks worth a run in the side. Substitutions far too late and demonstrated that Hurst was more than happy with a draw. How he can change the free flowing football we witnessed in those first twelve games to the mediocrity we are now watching is some achievement but today reminded me why I stopped going regularly last time he was in charge.

On the plus side the back three all played ok and goalkeeper made the one save required of him but took a couof crosses that Macca may have flapped at or tried to punch. Not the best day and getting soaked walking back to the car just summed up the day perfectly.

So some reflection on the drive home. In no particular order ….

One thing certainly confirmed for those who didn’t believe it (I was one) you have to spend relatively big money if you want a serious crack at promotion, certainly a lot more than when we where down here before.

So if you’re going to set up not to lose then don’t lose, though the players worked hard you would imagine with 3 experienced CB’s on the pitch you’d be able to understand where their danger man is at set pieces.

Equally if they’re dealing with your attacking threat don’t make a like for like change too late in a game, I know people have at times labelled Hurst as negative and I’ve often thought it was unfair on the whole, not this afternoon though he was exactly that.

If we had been able to field McAtee, Sousa and Hunt today we’d have beaten what are a well organised functioning side but with better players in mid field one that could be played through.

Then again we was never going to play through anyone as we had too many players today who couldn’t pass the ball to a player in the same colour shirt, when we could some of our lads had problems controlling it…… today we had little quality and even less composure on the ball.

The ref was conned from start to finish, the free kick prior to the goal was a soft free kick in a game of soft free kicks.

Bell stood out for me today, I would like to see him in a front 3 at some point if he stays for a bit. He was the only real highlight for me but I can’t deny the players did work hard and overall deserved a point to be fair.

Still a long way to go but on the basis of what we’re seeing at the moment you have to say we’re play off possibles rather than probables.

Disappointing day……

UTM!

Quoted from HertsGTFC

So some reflection on the drive home. In no particular order ….

One thing certainly confirmed for those who didn’t believe it (I was one) you have to spend relatively big money if you want a serious crack at promotion, certainly a lot more than when we where down here before.

So if you’re going to set up not to lose then don’t lose, though the players worked hard you would imagine with 3 experienced CB’s on the pitch you’d be able to understand where their danger man is at set pieces.

Equally if they’re dealing with your attacking threat don’t make a like for like change too late in a game, I know people have at times labelled Hurst as negative and I’ve often thought it was unfair on the whole, not this afternoon though he was exactly that.

If we had been able to field McAtee, Sousa and Hunt today we’d have beaten what are a well organised functioning side but with better players in mid field one that could be played through.

Then again we was never going to play through anyone as we had too many players today who couldn’t pass the ball to a player in the same colour shirt, when we could some of our lads had problems controlling it…… today we had little quality and even less composure on the ball.

The ref was conned from start to finish, the free kick prior to the goal was a soft free kick in a game of soft free kicks.

Bell stood out for me today, I would like to see him in a front 3 at some point if he stays for a bit. He was the only real highlight for me but I can’t deny the players did work hard and overall deserved a point to be fair.

Still a long way to go but on the basis of what we’re seeing at the moment you have to say we’re play off possibles rather than probables.

Disappointing day……

UTM!

Pretty realistic assessment of who and what we are.

I must admit that I’m shocked that Hurst has only won 19 of his last 100 games. I’m therefore quite concerned that our chairman sees him as the long term solution as ‘he shares our ethos’. What ethos is that? I’m slightly surprised that having a manager that sets up not to lose is the right man for someone who creates successful businesses.

I’m thinking that we’re in the non league for some time unless significant changes happen to address what appears to be a lack of ambition on the playing side.

[quote=1122]

Pretty realistic assessment of who and what we are.

I must admit that I’m shocked that Hurst has only won 19 of his last 100 games. I’m therefore quite concerned that our chairman sees him as the long term solution as ‘he shares our ethos’. What ethos is that? I’m slightly surprised that having a manager that sets up not to lose is the right man for someone who creates successful businesses.

I’m thinking that we’re in the non league for some time unless significant changes happen to address what appears to be a lack of ambition on the playing side.


Scary when you think of the crowds and potential budget we have ( once that leech is paid off).
Boreham will beat us, Boxing Day, anything can happen, the true test will be Kings lynn. We lose to them and he has to go!!

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Pretty realistic assessment of who and what we are.

I must admit that I’m shocked that Hurst has only won 19 of his last 100 games. I’m therefore quite concerned that our chairman sees him as the long term solution as ‘he shares our ethos’. What ethos is that? I’m slightly surprised that having a manager that sets up not to lose is the right man for someone who creates successful businesses.

I’m thinking that we’re in the non league for some time unless significant changes happen to address what appears to be a lack of ambition on the playing side.

I think the owners are doing a decent job overall, one year to the day I think since Alex May turned up at BP so let’s not forget how bad it was. I just hope once Fenty is fully paid off we add better quality to the playing squad.

The new owners confess to not being football people but if that’s the case how will they truly know if or when they have a big decision to make?

Owners have a big decision to make NOW!
Not a difficult decision in my opinion!

Quoted from HertsGTFC

I think the owners are doing a decent job overall, one year to the day I think since Alex May turned up at BP so let’s not forget how bad it was. I just hope once Fenty is fully paid off we add better quality to the playing squad.

The new owners confess to not being football people but if that’s the case how will they truly know if or when they have a big decision to make?

As I understand it, the new owners agreed to pay Fenty off over three years, accelerated by transfer incomes. I assume that is already budgeted for so I’m wondering how and why, especially with an alleged 800k bank balance, we don’t seem to be prepared to be pushing to regain league status. I get that there’s off field issues that need to be improved but we are now haemorrhaging gate receipts on a weekly basis?

Quoted from MuddyWaters

As I understand it, the new owners agreed to pay Fenty off over three years, accelerated by transfer incomes. I assume that is already budgeted for so I’m wondering how and why, especially with an alleged 800k bank balance, we don’t seem to be prepared to be pushing to regain league status. I get that there’s off field issues that need to be improved but we are now haemorrhaging gate receipts on a weekly basis?

Two things here, to say we’re “haemorrhaging gate receipts” is melodramatic to be honest, maybe after today you could argue we’re not maximising them if the poor form continues.

£800k in the bank sounds a lot but in reality in a world where we could quite easily end up playing behind closed doors again it would burn very quickly I’d imagine.

It looked to be heading for 0-0.  Acceptable when we had key players out.

Taylor also had a chance with a header in the first half.

Unforced errors:  the free kick given away for their goal, poor corners (one only 3 foot off the ground), poor crosses straight to their keeper, and any forward pass or cross from Efete was over hit). Why did Shop come on?

I thought that Bell and our keeper had good games.  The save just before HT was critical.

Our strongest team would have done a lot better.  It is hoped though that the team selection would then have been more forward-thinking.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Two things here, to say we’re “haemorrhaging gate receipts” is melodramatic to be honest, maybe after today you could argue we’re not maximising them if the poor form continues.

£800k in the bank sounds a lot but in reality in a world where we could quite easily end up playing behind closed doors again it would burn very quickly I’d imagine.

I’d have thought a reduction of 1500 in three games was pretty significant.

I too worry about about JS  & AP saying ' we are not football people', for all the  laudable visions they have for the club, what matters most to fans is success on the pitch and if things go wrong, as they are at the moment, do they have the ruthlessness as ' not football people' to make  essential changes as and when needed?
I know they are both successful business men, but this is different, its the hope and expectation of thousands they have in their hands,not a business model.
This is not a diig at the  new owners, I am delighted they relieved us of the previous  dubious narcissist, I just hope they realise the frustration of the fans and act bravely, 'football people'
or not
UTM

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Bell stood out for me today, I would like to see him in a front 3 at some point if he stays for a bit. He was the only real highlight for me but I can’t deny the players did work hard and overall deserved a point to be fair.

The Chesterfield commentators on 1866 Sport radio both felt that Bell was our MOM. They were hugely impressed by his pace, skill and energy, and could hardly believe that he’s only 19.

Quoted from psgmariner

I still find it hilarious / utterly depressing that hurst signed LJL last season. Genuinely thought it was a wind up.

We need goals to keep us up so let’s sign LJL and Stefan Payne…

Signing LJL and bringing Hurst back was sooooo Grimsby.

Others have said it but if LJL is our Plan B then god help us. And Plan A is pretty dreadful at the minute.

Quoted from petethemariner

I too worry about about JS  & AP saying ' we are not football people', for all the  laudable visions they have for the club, what matters most to fans is success on the pitch and if things go wrong, as they are at the moment, do they have the ruthlessness as ' not football people' to make  essential changes as and when needed?
I know they are both successful business men, but this is different, its the hope and expectation of thousands they have in their hands,not a business model.
This is not a diig at the  new owners, I am delighted they relieved us of the previous  dubious narcissist, I just hope they realise the frustration of the fans and act bravely, 'football people'
or not
UTM

They say that they are not football people because they are new to the football industry. Time will tell but I think they may have let Fleming go a bit too soon. It's alright leaving behind a Roladex of contacts but he's actually spoken to these contacts down the years and for people completely new to football, that would have been invaluable.

Mark Palmer was advising them too. When did they decide his advice was no longer required?

Quoted from mariner91

Others have said it but if LJL is our Plan B then god help us. And Plan A is pretty dreadful at the minute.

I’m quite staggered that we’ve got to December and LJL is still our second choice striker. Joel Grant must be seriously unfit.

A poor game for us and perhaps, more worrying given how well organised, structured and with a clear pattern of play that they had compared to our uncoordinated mess.

They also seemed 2 yards sharper than us across most of the pitch, certainly in midfield.

Coke, Fox and Clifton just not as skilful and sharp as many of the teams we have played in recent weeks and the movement off the ball and having the confidence and ability to take it and turn and play it out is really lacking without Hunt.

Absolutely Zero chance of play offs without a significant change in midfield personnel imho. The defence is solid and can do a job at this level. But right across the midfield today, we looked well off the pace and really didn’t string 5 passes together.

McAtee, Sousa and Hunt strengthen us a bit, but 4/5 players in midfield and up front needed and they must be much better than the level we have in there at the moment.

That’s not going to be easy to get, whether that is PH or someone else.

The someone else is a high risk choice as well - Bignot, Jolley and Holloway have shown that. Sometimes stick is as good as a twist.

Consoling myself with “this is a long term project”

It is and is likely to be in this league again next season.

UTM

Disappointing if predictable afternoon. Some criticism of the system on here tonight, however I can understand why we set up the way we did given available personnel and our form going into the game. There’s a real urgency to stop the rot, and under the circumstances a solid 0-0 draw against the league leaders would have been a decent result.

All that said, it was always a dangerous game to play when they’ve got the league’s top marksman up front. In a tight game of few chances, it felt inevitable that it would come down to a single, clinical moment and so it proved. We had equally good chances (not least Clifton’s header from a brilliant diagonal ball from Waterfall in the first half) but none of the ruthlessness that characterised our early season performances.

Tshimanga’s performance today reminded me of classic Lee Hughes. Do next to sod all, all game, look slightly disinterested, score a forgettable winner from 6 yards, incite the crowd a bit, get back on the bus with all 3 points. I didn’t think much to his overall play, but you know what he’s there to do - score goals. That’s what he does and that’s what he did. Those kind of players win games and win leagues, and we’re fundamentally lacking such a player right now.

Now, I don’t think our new owners would have had any intention of sacking Hurst this season. I think they saw him, rightly or wrongly, as someone who could help rebuild the club in the long-term, and within all foreseeable circumstances would be expected to keep his job regardless.

Trouble is, I don’t think anyone, literally anyone, saw this run of form coming. And make no mistake, 7 defeats in 8 games is absolutely job terminating form. For context, here’s the last 8 of other recent Town managers who were either sacked or left of their own accord under a cloud.

Holloway - W2 D1 L5
Jolley - W1 D2 L5
Slade - W0 D2 L6
Bignot - W3 D2 L3
Woods - W2 D4 L2
Newell - W3 D1 L4

Keep in mind that’s a pretty rotten bunch, most were glad to be seen the back of, and not one of them lost 7 of their last 8. Bignot’s sacking actually looks a little harsh when laid out like that, and even Newell’s record was better than I remembered it. They were still sacked, with much better recent records, in the league above this.

Neil Woods was sacked with Town in 9th having only lost 2 in 8. We’re currently 8th, but 10th on PPG.

Of course, this kind of analysis is a little basic and myopic. Slade hadnt scored a win in a daft amount of games, Bignot was a moron and Woods was clearly out of his depth. And, importantly, none of them went into those terminal runs top of the league. And that of course, alters the context - had we been sixth or seventh when this run began we’d be bottom third now and this conversation wouldn’t even be happening.

Losing today wasn’t a shock, I expected it. Like the Notts County game, the performance wasn’t shocking without being particularly good. But it’s no longer conjecture; it happened, we lost. For the 7th time in 8 games. In the National League. Regardless of league position, there’s only so long you can sustain form like this and remain employed - that’s football fact.

My view is that Hurst now has 4 games, max. He needs to have recorded a league win by the time the final whistle blows against King’s Lynn, and hope that we haven’t taken a spanking off Boreham Wood or Halifax in the meantime.

The idea that Halifax away could be more toxic than the last time we went there seemed a laughable idea just 6 or 7 weeks ago, but here we are. Things change quickly in football, and they have for us. They need to change quickly again for Paul Hurst.

Will we lose next 3 or 4?

Hurst has won more than 19 of his last 100 league games and drawn a fair few too.

I know he's struggling at the moment but let's not make out it's worse than it actually is, just to back up your argument for sacking him.

Nineteen wins out of a hundred is still pretty poor but makes an average of less than one win in ten sound better. It’s time he went.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I’d have thought a reduction of 1500 in three games was pretty significant.

But still above what is budgeted for.

Quoted from Poojah

Disappointing if predictable afternoon. Some criticism of the system on here tonight, however I can understand why we set up the way we did given available personnel and our form going into the game. There’s a real urgency to stop the rot, and under the circumstances a solid 0-0 draw against the league leaders would have been a decent result.

All that said, it was always a dangerous game to play when they’ve got the league’s top marksman up front. In a tight game of few chances, it felt inevitable that it would come down to a single, clinical moment and so it proved. We had equally good chances (not least Clifton’s header from a brilliant diagonal ball from Waterfall in the first half) but none of the ruthlessness that characterised our early season performances.

Tshimanga’s performance today reminded me of classic Lee Hughes. Do next to sod all, all game, look slightly disinterested, score a forgettable winner from 6 yards, incite the crowd a bit, get back on the bus with all 3 points. I didn’t think much to his overall play, but you know what he’s there to do - score goals. That’s what he does and that’s what he did. Those kind of players win games and win leagues, and we’re fundamentally lacking such a player right now.

Now, I don’t think our new owners would have had any intention of sacking Hurst this season. I think they saw him, rightly or wrongly, as someone who could help rebuild the club in the long-term, and within all foreseeable circumstances would be expected to keep his job regardless.

Trouble is, I don’t think anyone, literally anyone, saw this run of form coming. And make no mistake, 7 defeats in 8 games is absolutely job terminating form. For context, here’s the last 8 of other recent Town managers who were either sacked or left of their own accord under a cloud.

Holloway - W2 D1 L5
Jolley - W1 D2 L5
Slade - W0 D2 L6
Bignot - W3 D2 L3
Woods - W2 D4 L2
Newell - W3 D1 L4

Keep in mind that’s a pretty rotten bunch, most were glad to be seen the back of, and not one of them lost 7 of their last 8. Bignot’s sacking actually looks a little harsh when laid out like that, and even Newell’s record was better than I remembered it. They were still sacked, with much better recent records, in the league above this.

Neil Woods was sacked with Town in 9th having only lost 2 in 8. We’re currently 8th, but 10th on PPG.

Of course, this kind of analysis is a little basic and myopic. Slade hadnt scored a win in a daft amount of games, Bignot was a moron and Woods was clearly out of his depth. And, importantly, none of them went into those terminal runs top of the league. And that of course, alters the context - had we been sixth or seventh when this run began we’d be bottom third now and this conversation wouldn’t even be happening.

Losing today wasn’t a shock, I expected it. Like the Notts County game, the performance wasn’t shocking without being particularly good. But it’s no longer conjecture; it happened, we lost. For the 7th time in 8 games. In the National League. Regardless of league position, there’s only so long you can sustain form like this and remain employed - that’s football fact.

My view is that Hurst now has 4 games, max. He needs to have recorded a league win by the time the final whistle blows against King’s Lynn, and hope that we haven’t taken a spanking off Boreham Wood or Halifax in the meantime.

The idea that Halifax away could be more toxic than the last time we went there seemed a laughable idea just 6 or 7 weeks ago, but here we are. Things change quickly in football, and they have for us. They need to change quickly again for Paul Hurst.

Unless (god forbid) we end up in a relegation battle this season, I think we need to stick with Hurst long-term. Id be happy with the playoffs this season, and even next season if it came to it. What I dont want to see is a constantly revolving door of subpar/alcoholic/city bankers/ has-beens that fluked it in the 00's but now relies on "his mates watching Sunday league in the southwest" to sign excrement player on 50-year contracts/  Complete nut jobs / Or a club legend being completely chucked under the bus.

Quoted from barralad

But still above what is budgeted for.

Oh good. We can look forward to some decent signings in Jan then. !!

Quoted from Civvy at last

Oh good. We can look forward to some decent signings in Jan then. !!

Beat me to it. Staggered that someone feels they can justify a 25% decrease in turnover.

Quoted from realist

Nineteen wins out of a hundred is still pretty poor but makes an average of less than one win in ten sound better. It’s time he went.

Only that is not true.

His last 99 league games (You have to go back to Shrewsbury where he was very successful to include 100, so I will leave that out) are as follows.

Ipswich               P15 W1 D7 L7

Scunthorpe        P38 W12 D10 L16

GTFC                 P46 W16 D10 L20

I make that 29 wins from 99 games with 27 draws and 43 defeats. Not good reading but 1 win 3, not the one in 5 being quoted.

It may also be relevant to point out that all three clubs were struggling badly when he was appointed and in the case of the first two, both have since replaced the manager that replaced Hurst and are still struggling now.

As I have said before, if PH was sacked today, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it, but changing managers isn't a sure fire way to stop the rot.

In 20 days time, the transfer window opens. For me, he gets that and see where we are at the end of Jan.

Quoted from ginnywings

Only that is not true.

His last 99 league games (You have to go back to Shrewsbury where he was very successful to include 100, so I will leave that out) are as follows.

Ipswich               P15 W1 D7 L7

Scunthorpe        P38 W12 D10 L16

GTFC                 P46 W16 D10 L20

I make that 29 wins from 99 games with 27 draws and 43 defeats. Not good reading but 1 win 3, not the one in 5 being quoted.

It may also be relevant to point out that all three clubs were struggling badly when he was appointed and in the case of the first two, both have since replaced the manager that replaced Hurst and are still struggling now.

As I have said before, if PH was sacked today, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it, but changing managers isn't a sure fire way to stop the rot.

In 20 days time, the transfer window opens. For me, he gets that and see where we are at the end of Jan.

Agree with the bit in bold.

From the GT
It's clear that there is a big missing piece of the Town puzzle. Too often this season, Hurst's side have played well between both boxes, without the guile or clinical instinct to turn their territory into goals.

That is the biggest issue
IMO you can;t have three of your front three as Fox, Clifton, Coke - where is the creativity?

McAtee
Bell
Taylor

A very good front three IMO

We need a creative midfielder in January, a back up striker and then hope Sousa, Maguire Drew and Bapaga get into some sort of consistent form

GK, defence, box to box is fine...it's just lack of creativity and goals which is putting huge pressure on the back line

PH has great track record of finding the players - he needs it more than ever January

Quoted from Dave Gilberts Left Peg

Another inept performance, zero creativity, felt sorry for young Sam bell trying to feed off that service. Substitutions, too little too late. Mid table by Xmas

Dagenham 3 points behind in 11th .... that was your lowest ever finishing position a decade ago, can Hurst beat that I wonder?

Is Hunt not a creative midfielder? The problem is that not one of Clifton, Coke or Fox has been remotely good enough in a defensive midfield role which has meant Hunt’s having to drop back deeper to help out & then anything going forward from him is up to an isolated striker stretched well beyond the midfield.

Someone like a Matete who would get stuck in then drive 10-15 yards to drag everyone up the pitch would have a massive impact on the team.

Quoted from barralad

But still above what is budgeted for.

For now, unfortunately if this run of form continues the attendances will only get worse.

A Matete type - exactly what we want
Good call

I was thinking about him the other day as the sort of player we need . What’s he up to at the minute?

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

I was thinking about him the other day as the sort of player we need . What’s he up to at the minute?

Playing reguarly in league 1

Mid table beckons for us

i think short term at least till january continue with yesterdays team but now hunts back he replaces any one of the other three , when mcatees back we could try 3/4/3 perhaps use efete & raven as our attacking widemen , we would be a massive threat with taylor bell mcatee just in behind , only a suggestion but gives us abit of pace as well in efete raven , all you managers out there would that work or would we be too open

Quoted from NorfolkImp

Dagenham 3 points behind in 11th .... that was your lowest ever finishing position a decade ago, can Hurst beat that I wonder?

Imagine having such an empty life that you post on a rival club’s message board more than every other day on average.

Quoted from NorfolkImp

Dagenham 3 points behind in 11th .... that was your lowest ever finishing position a decade ago, can Hurst beat that I wonder?

I truly feel sorry for you, your life must be so empty.

Having seen their goal again i'm back to being really copulated off about it:

https://twitter.com/_TJStone/status/1469729268330606595

Yet again our THREE centre halves let them win the first high ball into the box (a constant theme in goals we've conceded this season), and then for some flipping ridiculous reason we've got LJL marking Tshimanga who lets him go so he's there to fire home the knock down. Why was LJL brought on? Why was LJL marking the top striker in the league? Why do all our centre halves so frequently fail to win headers in our own box?

Absolutely key points made there. This is what cost us.

Quoted from Chrisblor

Having seen their goal again i'm back to being really copulated off about it:

https://twitter.com/_TJStone/status/1469729268330606595

Yet again our THREE centre halves let them win the first high ball into the box (a constant theme in goals we've conceded this season), and then for some flipping ridiculous reason we've got LJL marking Tshimanga who lets him go so he's there to fire home the knock down. Why was LJL brought on? Why was LJL marking the top striker in the league? Why do all our centre halves so frequently fail to win headers in our own box?

Who’s job was it to mark the danger man at set pieces, if that wasn’t planned out I’d be surprised.

Bet he couldn’t believe his luck , unmarked in front of goal six yards out . Terrible defending when you’re playing with 3 centre backs

Lenny was wrong side of him throughout, and was pulling him back.What a balls up

Now I've calmed down, got over my hangover and eaten 5 stone of chocolate I'm seeing yesterday for what it was, crap!..
We actually have in our ranks a goal scorer, a bloody good one too.
Ryan Taylor has proven if given the service he will score, what we haven't done is give him said service in recent games, he's been up front acting as a battering ram and in fairness his hold up play has been excellent but without Macatee he's not getting the chances.
So to yesterday, given the suspension of Macatee and Hunt, injury to Sousa there's some mitigation as to why Hurst set the team up the way he did.
I'm not expecting a gun ho approach to every game at home but Hurst needs to stop trying to out think himself by overly worrying about the opposition. Yes, give them some respect by all means but FFS, show some balls and at least have a go at them.
I'd say if we get twatted by Halifax then I'm all for showing him the door, certainly if we have a full strength squad to pick from and he decides to go 8 at the back again.

We had a defensive set up from the start, which, given our respective forms, I understand.
With better finishing and defence near the end, we could have come away with a draw or a win against the inform top of the league side, even without Macatee and Hunt.
The main thing that annoys me is, what was LJL sent on to do? Bad decision and whatever it was, he didn’t do it.
I really don’t want to bash him. But he doesn’t appear to fit in with the overall team plan.

If the win record is to be quoted (and wrongly) for Hurst then it should be flagged up that these were games in higher leagues.

Also, at Shrewsbury he took them from bottom to top of Div 1,  unlucky not to have got automatic promotion to the Championship.

Getting depressing now - I had a sense of foreboding rather than excitement before the game.

Early on in the season we looked stronger and fitter than most of our opponents - the Dover game at home was the obvious example.  Now our players don't seem to be on the front foot nearly as much, and if there's a stray ball it  seems to go to the opposition much more often.

We desperately need some inspiration to lift the confidence of the players and fans.  The players did work hard yesterday, and we kept trying even after we'd conceded, but there was a feeling of inevitability about the result.  I think there's a nervousness in front of goal now that wasn't there before - defence is obviously very important, but I'd also like to see players bombing forward whenever they can and bombarding the opposite goalkeeper, whether the goals go in or not, it will at least get the crowd going.

On the positive side, until it was mentioned, I wouldn't have known that Chesterfield had a particularly good striker, so we managed to stifle him most of the time at least.  And our recent defeats haven't been massive thumpings - there's usually only been one goal in it.  Not much consolation, but we didn't get anyone sent off either.

Is Gary Croft still the expert analyser for home games, alongside JT?  If anyone listens to him, does he have any ideas about what's going wrong and how we can remedy it, apart from the obvious lack of a goalscorer?  I thought Crofty talked a lot of sense when we were stuck at home last season and would be interested to hear what he thinks about our current situation.

Sam Bell was my MOM yesterday, for his tireless energy, effort and enthusiasm.  Would have loved to have seen him get a goal for all his hard work, but it didn't ever look as if it was going to happen.  Still appreciated his performance.

Can't help feeling we need a player to get hold of the next game by the scruff of its neck and give it a good shake up.  It's not going to be McAtee, but surely we've got someone else who can offer similar inspiration?

Quoted from Chrisblor

Having seen their goal again i'm back to being really copulated off about it:

https://twitter.com/_TJStone/status/1469729268330606595

Yet again our THREE centre halves let them win the first high ball into the box (a constant theme in goals we've conceded this season), and then for some flipping ridiculous reason we've got LJL marking Tshimanga who lets him go so he's there to fire home the knock down. Why was LJL brought on? Why was LJL marking the top striker in the league? Why do all our centre halves so frequently fail to win headers in our own box?

I don't understand why LJL is in the match day squad and what he supposedly brings. People claim that he brings others in to play but his touch this season has been so appalling 90% of the time that this simply isn't true. He used to get in amongst the opposition and harass them but he's far too heavy these days, muscle bound to the point where he can't get around the pitch well at all making him ineffective.

Regardless, Taylor is in the team for his hold up play and ability to be a springboard to launch attacks from higher up the pitch. And, with the right personnel around him and good service, he generally does it very well. Which means that if our Plan A isn't working, then our Plan B is more of the same but with a player not even half as effective as the one he's replaced. It's totally pointless. Add to that the fact that should a chance drop to LJL, very few people actually expect him to score. I hate to go on about him because I know he tries hard and I'm sure he's a good bloke but he's indicative of how short in quality and method our squad currently is. Hurst's failure to sign someone else as an alternative to LJL until very recently (and Bell seems promising in his defence) goes back to the age old criticism against him in that he never has a Plan B.