More Guardianista stuff

Not JS this time, but it’s kind of related. At least in the comments about fans and culture in the English game.

Interesting stuff from the ex head coach of Granada, Diego Martínez. There’s one but where I thought he was even going to say “jumpers for goalposts”.

https://amp.theguardian.com/fo.....had-to-experience-it

Until you’ve lived English football, you will never know what it is. At Rèal they take hankies and wave them around. At Derby (or any English club) it’s police in full riot gear in the football equivalent of squid games outside the boardroom car park

Now, am not saying that the Spanish, German or Italian supporters aren’t passionate but, unless it’s a ‘Classico’ then you may as well be watching a game of table tennis. Passion is in our blood and sport transfuses that emotion into the stage that it represents. Look at the darts, horse racing, rugby and cricket. The support at these events is a sight to behold.

It’s not like America with their cheerleaders and marching bands to ‘whoop’ the crowd into a frenzy. Over here the playlist starts with a few cd’s and then the crowd take over. The ‘club anthems’ reverberate amongst stadia that’s seen better days. Some may question it being a shithole, it just may be. But it’s OUR shithole and nothing can change that.

The only flaw I would say is the amount of oil barons, oligarchs and hedge fund owners that are involved with clubs (my god are we fortunate to have JS and AP!). The Germans are leading the way with fan owned clubs, and this has to be applauded and given the respect it deserves.

I digress. The passion the English have for sport is second to none, in my opinion. And having managers and coaches that understand that supporters are the reason the clubs exist, will only help.

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

Until you’ve lived English football, you will never know what it is. At Rèal they take hankies and wave them around. At Derby (or any English club) it’s police in full riot gear in the football equivalent of squid games outside the boardroom car park

Now, am not saying that the Spanish, German or Italian supporters aren’t passionate but, unless it’s a ‘Classico’ then you may as well be watching a game of table tennis. Passion is in our blood and sport transfuses that emotion into the stage that it represents. Look at the darts, horse racing, rugby and cricket. The support at these events is a sight to behold.

It’s not like America with their cheerleaders and marching bands to ‘whoop’ the crowd into a frenzy. Over here the playlist starts with a few cd’s and then the crowd take over. The ‘club anthems’ reverberate amongst stadia that’s seen better days. Some may question it being a shithole, it just may be. But it’s OUR shithole and nothing can change that.

The only flaw I would say is the amount of oil barons, oligarchs and hedge fund owners that are involved with clubs (my god are we fortunate to have JS and AP!). The Germans are leading the way with fan owned clubs, and this has to be applauded and given the respect it deserves.

I digress. The passion the English have for sport is second to none, in my opinion. And having managers and coaches that understand that supporters are the reason the clubs exist, will only help.

Having seen ‘nothing games’ in all those countries and strongly disagree about lack of atmosphere.

English folk have passion for football, but so does anyone that loves their club.

This rose tinted view of the English game is quite funny. I’ve been to plenty of English games where the atmosphere has matched that of the moons. I’ve been to various Italian games, at all levels and had the opposite. We’re passionate here, sure, but if someone tried to generate an atmosphere in the way foreign fans do people would be falling over themselves to moan and chastise them for trying, especially if flares, smoke bombs and giant flags were used.

The ultras movement never made it to the UK and it’s actually a shame. It isn’t necessarily about thuggery but also a bringing together of folk, the charity work many do is second to non and whilst footballing authorities still make decisions, ultras groups have unified fan bases across divisions to stand up to the leagues, clubs and TV companies.

Take our own club, aside from the morons, we’ve known for years the state and direction the club was heading, fans did little about it and many were even met with the old nonsense ‘but at least we’re not bury’…few fans of foreign teams would’ve allowed that to happen. Fact.

I think it’s naive to think sport is seen more passionately over here than other countries. Having seen ice hockey in the nhl, college ball in America, football and cricket abroad I’d say everyone is as passionate as everyone else - they just do it differently.

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

Until you’ve lived English football, you will never know what it is. At Rèal they take hankies and wave them around. At Derby (or any English club) it’s police in full riot gear in the football equivalent of squid games outside the boardroom car park

Now, am not saying that the Spanish, German or Italian supporters aren’t passionate but, unless it’s a ‘Classico’ then you may as well be watching a game of table tennis. Passion is in our blood and sport transfuses that emotion into the stage that it represents. Look at the darts, horse racing, rugby and cricket. The support at these events is a sight to behold.

It’s not like America with their cheerleaders and marching bands to ‘whoop’ the crowd into a frenzy. Over here the playlist starts with a few cd’s and then the crowd take over. The ‘club anthems’ reverberate amongst stadia that’s seen better days. Some may question it being a shithole, it just may be. But it’s OUR shithole and nothing can change that.

The only flaw I would say is the amount of oil barons, oligarchs and hedge fund owners that are involved with clubs (my god are we fortunate to have JS and AP!). The Germans are leading the way with fan owned clubs, and this has to be applauded and given the respect it deserves.

I digress. The passion the English have for sport is second to none, in my opinion. And having managers and coaches that understand that supporters are the reason the clubs exist, will only help.

Have you ever been to a football match outside of the UK?

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

Until you’ve lived English football, you will never know what it is. At Rèal they take hankies and wave them around. At Derby (or any English club) it’s police in full riot gear in the football equivalent of squid games outside the boardroom car park

Now, am not saying that the Spanish, German or Italian supporters aren’t passionate but, unless it’s a ‘Classico’ then you may as well be watching a game of table tennis. Passion is in our blood and sport transfuses that emotion into the stage that it represents. Look at the darts, horse racing, rugby and cricket. The support at these events is a sight to behold.

It’s not like America with their cheerleaders and marching bands to ‘whoop’ the crowd into a frenzy. Over here the playlist starts with a few cd’s and then the crowd take over. The ‘club anthems’ reverberate amongst stadia that’s seen better days. Some may question it being a shithole, it just may be. But it’s OUR shithole and nothing can change that.

The only flaw I would say is the amount of oil barons, oligarchs and hedge fund owners that are involved with clubs (my god are we fortunate to have JS and AP!). The Germans are leading the way with fan owned clubs, and this has to be applauded and given the respect it deserves.

I digress. The passion the English have for sport is second to none, in my opinion. And having managers and coaches that understand that supporters are the reason the clubs exist, will only help.

This really is full of stereotyped nonsense.

I lived in the US and the atmosphere at most football games (NFL or big college games) is electric.

Try telling Atletico Madrid fans or Sevilla fans that you only get an atmosphere at Classico games - Spain pay a lot of their internationals in Seville because it's hot and the fans are rabid.

I’m sure he has been to games in other countries but I too disagree with the content of the post. There is a wide range of passions and rivalries in football, certainly all across Europe. To say that English football trumps them all or is second to none, is, in my opinion, just not correct and there’s masses of evidence that says so.

Agree with a lot of what people are saying, but one thing England is special for is the level of support for non top tier football, particularly tier 3 and below, especially the travelling support. It may not be the envy of the world in that a lot of countries are happy to concentrate peoples attention on a few clubs, but it is certainly unique.

More professional clubs in Turkey than in England, however. Not sure how much travelling the fans will do there as I'd imagine it is a bit risky to do so for certain games, given that team coaches have been shot at in recent years!

I see what you’re all saying about other countries being passionate about their sort and football in particular. And I’m the last person to make claims for English exceptionalism.  But Martínez himself says “ If you’re from there, maybe you don’t see it, but it’s special.”

We can’t compare the away fan thing Becauee aside from England being tiny, so far, although they’ve tried, football is still accessible. No stupid fan cards or last minute KO alterations etc like you get on the continent…and size, as mentioned.

English football might be special but I can’t imagine the comments are from someone who’s been to see Maidenhead v Solihull for instance…yes, the folk in the ground care very much about their clubs but don’t tell me there’s some electric partisan atmosphere because it’s balderdash.

Conversely, for me, one of the biggest myths in English football is the whole ‘a field on a European night’ or ‘can they do it at Stoke on a cold Tuesday’…they’re simply that, myths..,

Don’t tell the Maidenhead Ultras that. They’ll be tutting all week.

[quote=140636]





Try telling Atletico Madrid fans or Sevilla fans that you only get an atmosphere at Classico games - Spain pay a lot of their internationals in Seville because it's hot and the fans are rabid.

Spain cannot or will not play home internationals in Catalan ( Barcelona) as none of the locals would go, even if Barca players were playing, don’t know if it’s the same for the Basque region also.

Would have thought Espanyol fans would go to a Spain international in Barca. Admittedly the minority, but quite a sizeable one.

I have lived in Sevilla and regularly watched Real Betis and sometimes Sevilla.

Atmosphere was generally good, as with here there was usually one stand that was vocal at all games and other stands that got louder at certain matches or at particularly exciting games.

Two things I do think are better about English football than Spanish (and I can only speak about Spain, I have no point of reference for other countries):

1. The pace of football in Spain could be quite slow, in a mid-table game at least. Lots of build up, maintaining possession - a percentage game - but I did miss the direct nature of English football at times. More attacks, more excitement.
2. The feigned 'injuries' were ridiculous. Multiple times per game there were 3-4 minute stoppages, someone driving a golf buggy on to stretcher them off the pitch, they'd sit up and run on again soon as it got to the touchline. The crowd had stopped even reacting to this nonsense it was so frequent.


The footy experience was a more family friendly at most games, and much less punitive in general. Bars around the ground always open with a mix of fans, fanzones (whether official or just someone with good speakers creating one outside the ground...!)... obviously if it was Betis vs Sevilla this changed in terns of policing, altho it was mostly the ultras shepherded, and they didn't change kick offs cos of this (although kick offs changed cos of TV worse than here as they could be played at ridiculous times whereas we at least limit the slots)

One thing I think England does much more impressively than anywhere is the depth of our football pyramid and the support down to our level. In Spain (and unless I'm v mistaken, most if not all other footballing countries), by the time you get to the 3rd division crowds are in their hundreds not thousands. And in Spain, there's the dreaded b-Teams in at that level to boot.

The ultras are second to none. It doesn’t matter if that’s the palace boys in the holmsdale, rangers’ bears, juve’s ultra’s or Wisconsin’s wombats! They create something special.

I was merely saying that the atmosphere at British games is better. I’ve been to see Bristol city play Bradford at Ashton gate and I e also seen Malaga, Tenerife and Derry city play, and I can tell you now which was better. I wasn’t trying to be judgmental over others, it’s just what I’ve seen first hand.

There’s no denying that the mainstream leagues in European football have good atmosphere. But, go down the leagues, and you only have to look at how well some clubs travel to away games as opposed to our neighbours across the North Sea/English Channel. Football and passion goes a lot further in England than any other country imo.  

I agree with the many posts above saying that lower league football in England and the morbid, stubbornly loyal support is something to be very proud of.

Lower league football struggles in parts of Europe for a variety of reasons.

In Italy it’s biscotti, match fixings and the domination of the big city teams. Outside of Rome, Naples or the islands, it’s rare to find an Italian football fan who doesn’t support Milan, Inter or Juve. Even in Florence, where Juventus are supposedly despised, there are still many Juve fans.

Then there is the B-team issue in Germany, Spain and Portugal.

I mean, what kind of idiotic, turtle-neck sporting, tampon confiscator would support B-teams entering the English football league system.

What about the biscotti?

Quoted from KingstonMariner

What about the biscotti?

Two teams engineering a result that suits both parties to the detriment of others.

Don’t mistake it with soggy biscuit. With your sodium intolerance you’d dissolve like a slug.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

What about the biscotti?

I think it’s when garibaldi played up front for piacenza

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

Two teams engineering a result that suits both parties to the detriment of others.

Don’t mistake it with soggy biscuit. With your sodium intolerance you’d dissolve like a slug.

You mean like the Lancashire Ring (and I’m not talking about Sarah’s winking eye)

Quoted from KingstonMariner

You mean like the Lancashire Ring (and I’m not talking about Sarah’s winking eye)

Talking of Lancashire circles, Olly ‘Not That Charlatan’ Lancashire is back at Southampton playing B team football

Quoted from aldi_01

The ultras movement never made it to the UK and it’s actually a shame. It isn’t necessarily about thuggery but also a bringing together of folk, the charity work many do is second to non and whilst footballing authorities still make decisions, ultras groups have unified fan bases across divisions to stand up to the leagues, clubs and TV companies.

https://fb.watch/9FQTt25OEC/