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Jason. The Guardian

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Mariner John
November 17, 2021, 11:18am
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I thought it was brilliant, if a little incongruous, seeing the Hollywood A-listers Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney turn up at Maidenhead United’s ground last month, to watch their first game as the new owners of Wrexham AFC. They surprised everyone last year when their offer to buy the north Wales club was approved. Now Covid travel rules have been relaxed, they have finally had a chance to see their beloved Red Dragons in person. As the owners of another National League club, Grimsby Town FC, Andrew Pettit and I are hoping some of that glitz and glamour will permanently rub off on us when we visit the Racecourse Ground in January.

I’m personally delighted about the competitive nature of the National League this year, with a number of “big” clubs vying for promotion out of what is the fifth tier of English football. The gamble which the Deadpool and It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia stars are taking in the National League, asking fans to “dream big” and think of the Premier League as a target, is not dissimilar to what is happening with the 24 teams in the Championship. A number of clubs are looking to benefactors to sustain financial losses while helping them win promotion – all the while knowing that only three clubs can be successful.

The analogy with the Championship breaks down quickly though. No one buys into a club in the National League motivated by financial returns: it has to be about taking the club and community on a journey, and for that I admire what is happening at clubs like Wrexham and Stockport County. Both clubs have owners who are taking significant financial and reputational risks to awaken “sleeping giants”: in Stockport’s case, they were bought by property entrepreneur Mark Stott in January 2020. I believe they want the best for the clubs and communities; these are not the kind of opaque international investors who use brokers to get them through the owners’ and directors’ test on moral and financial suitability.

What worries me is the growing financial inequality that is becoming embedded in English football. Grimsby Town will make a significant loss this year. While budgets at our level are not officially declared, we know we are “competitive” – and we know that four or five of our peers are spending significantly more than us to get into the Football League. While we can boast nearly full-house attendances and improved performances at Grimsby, we are investing in the long-term infrastructure and culture of the club, and as a result it’s likely our financial losses will be worse next year. The second year after you drop out of the league, you lose all support payments from the EFL. For most owners at this level there is an acceptance that the payoffs lie somewhere other than the balance sheet: most are more interested in helping our community redefine its future.

That inequality should exist in football or society at large is neither controversial, nor problematic in itself. Natural endowments and capabilities mean advantages play out in all walks of life. The issue I and many others have with inequality is when it is patently unfair. While I love the excitement that glamorous owners bring to football, there needs to be strong financial parameters enforced around lower-league clubs, particularly around the pay structures and bonuses for each division. Clubs being able to underwrite big losses is a gamble that often does not pay off over time. It also creates unrealistic expectations among fans of clubs about the kinds of players they can attract, and leads to wage inflation for the whole league. This kind of market distortion is bad for the football pyramid as a whole.

The free market is a myth. All systems need operating boundaries with checks and balances if we want a market to be healthy and competitive. Outside football, in recent decades we have seen companies abandon working-class communities in places like Grimsby in favour of cheaper labour overseas. In football we see a similar kind of process, as super-rich individuals use brute force to achieve success by underwriting losses. Even if those individuals are acting honourably, which many are, it distorts the market for everyone. And crucially, when it doesn’t work it leaves the kind of disastrous mess we have seen at Bury, Wigan Athletic and Macclesfield Town in recent years.
Manchester City fans display a banner before the Carabao Cup final against Tottenham in April.
English football needs independent regulator, says chair of fan-led review


This is why Grimsby Town are proud to be members of the Fair Game alliance, being led by Niall Couper from AFC Wimbledon, and I’m really looking forward to the fan-led review they are publishing soon. Even the former Conservative sports minister Tracey Crouch seemed to understand the need to rethink the value of a football club. “Football clubs are not ordinary businesses,” she said in her interim findings. “They play a critical social, civic and cultural role in their local communities. They need to be protected – sometimes from their owners, who are, after all, simply the current custodians of a community asset.”

I’m hoping that we see recommendations in the fan-led review that would help cement the sustainable ownership of clubs as community assets. First, we need a massive upgrade of the evidently weak owners’ and directors’ test. There should be a legal commitment to enshrine their commitments to fans and the local community. Second, we need to incentivise responsible financial conduct throughout the football pyramid, and distribute finances based on a new fairness and sustainability index. Some of the massive amounts of revenue generated in the Premier League should go to those clubs that score highly on the index – clubs that are committed to financial sustainability, have good governance and believe in real fan and community engagement. With the profile our game has, English football could and should be showing real leadership: in how we create not only a fairer sport, but a fairer society..
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lew chaterleys lover
November 17, 2021, 11:42am
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It may be nice to dream of a fairer competition and a fairer society but we have to face the realities of life in modern football. It's a very competitive business.

The fans are playing their part so I hope we don't wait too long for a fairer competition to emerge whilst we are still in division 5.
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promotion plaice
November 17, 2021, 12:12pm

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In the article it states "The second year after you drop out of the league, you lose all support payments from the EFL."

I was under the impression clubs relegated from EFL League Two receive 100% of the equivalent Basic Award payment made to League Two clubs in the first year following relegation, and 50% of the equivalent Basic Award payment made to League Two clubs in the second year following relegation, just saying.


When Leeds trainer Les Cocker was once told Norman Hunter had broken a leg, he asked: “Whose is it?”
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wuffing
November 17, 2021, 12:15pm

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Mr Stockdale for president in the New Republic of Grimsby, which I am just about to start...










'I walked in the dressing room. The window was open and I thought that a sea fret had got in. Then I saw smoke billowing from a pipe in the corner of the room...it was my centre-forward. He looked seven stone wet through. He went on to score thirty-odd goals that season.' Lawrie McMenemy on encountering the legend that was Matt Tees.
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DB
November 17, 2021, 1:01pm
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Thank you to Mariner John for bringing this to our attention.

I think this sums up all that is wrong in the Prem and EFL. As JS pointed out earlier in the season they are looking at a loss this year and next, more than likely due to you know who, our super fan.

With regard to the rich owners putting in £100's of K into clubs, it is ridiculous, rich man's toys until his whim moves and written against his balance sheet as a tax loss!

Jason has the right thoughts, whether we like them or not, the club has to be sustainable over the long term and an asset for the community. He mentions 4/5 big spenders in the national league but only 2 teams will get promoted and 1 might have a plastic pitch ( unfair advantage ).

So how much debt will they carry into the next season and become another Scunthorpe!!!!!!!!!!


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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FishOutOfWater
November 17, 2021, 1:45pm
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Quoted from DB
Thank you to Mariner John for bringing this to our attention.

I think this sums up all that is wrong in the Prem and EFL. As JS pointed out earlier in the season they are looking at a loss this year and next, more than likely due to you know who, our super fan.

With regard to the rich owners putting in £100's of K into clubs, it is ridiculous, rich man's toys until his whim moves and written against his balance sheet as a tax loss!

Jason has the right thoughts, whether we like them or not, the club has to be sustainable over the long term and an asset for the community. He mentions 4/5 big spenders in the national league but only 2 teams will get promoted and 1 might have a plastic pitch ( unfair advantage ).

So how much debt will they carry into the next season and become another Scunthorpe!!!!!!!!!!


you know who, our super fan.

The principal (de)funder I take it?  
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KingstonMariner
November 17, 2021, 2:05pm
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Quoted from FishOutOfWater


you know who, our super fan.

The principal (de)funder “I take it”?  


Isn’t that what he said when we got the transfer fees for Pollock and Grist?


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Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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MuddyWaters
November 17, 2021, 2:15pm
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Trouble is that you can’t just change the rules because you don’t like them. We all know the club needed a reboot but the fans are turning up in droves and will continue to do so if the match day experience meets their expectations.
I understand the point but it’s part and parcel of football that some clubs are better funded than others even at levels below ours.
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KingstonMariner
November 17, 2021, 2:59pm
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Quoted from MuddyWaters
Trouble is that you can’t just change the rules because you don’t like them. We all know the club needed a reboot but the fans are turning up in droves and will continue to do so if the match day experience meets their expectations.
I understand the point but it’s part and parcel of football that some clubs are better funded than others even at levels below ours.


Well no, but you hope to persuade others that the rules need changing for the good of the game as a whole.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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HertsGTFC
November 17, 2021, 3:08pm

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Quoted from wuffing
Mr Stockdale for president in the New Republic of Grimsby, which I am just about to start...


Mr Lawson as his deputy?

On a serious note there does need to be additional governance at all levels about how much you spend versus what you are willing to underwrite.

I know many posters we're p1ssed when we didn't top the offer Chesterfield made for the lad from Borehamwood but I would have been a bit worried if new owners had come in and  started paying that kind of money for and to an individual player.

Yes I want to get back up and stay up this time so a bit more of a long term approach is hard to pallet but feels the best way.

In my mind the more the media big up the National League the better as it may begin to influence 3 up 3 down from the EFL........... well maybe not !  


"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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lew chaterleys lover
November 17, 2021, 3:13pm
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Quoted from MuddyWaters
Trouble is that you can’t just change the rules because you don’t like them. We all know the club needed a reboot but the fans are turning up in droves and will continue to do so if the match day experience meets their expectations.
I understand the point but it’s part and parcel of football that some clubs are better funded than others even at levels below ours.


Exactly. He is talking like he was the owner of Dover FC rather than Grimsby Town. We have got more muscle than most in this division so let's use it. We cannot worry that some clubs might get bigger crowds than others, or more income from commercial activities any more than we can worry about some clubs having owners not afraid of spending their cash.

He seems to mention making a loss every time he makes a statement but he knew this was going to be the case, and despite all the good work done so far, and all the good work to come is it really feasible for a club of our size to be self-sufficient in terms of finance? If that is what he is aiming for we are likely to be in the lower divisions forever. Surely there have to be injections of investment if we are to progress?
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Heisenberg
November 17, 2021, 4:43pm
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Exactly. He is talking like he was the owner of Dover FC rather than Grimsby Town. We have got more muscle than most in this division so let's use it. We cannot worry that some clubs might get bigger crowds than others, or more income from commercial activities any more than we can worry about some clubs having owners not afraid of spending their cash.

He seems to mention making a loss every time he makes a statement but he knew this was going to be the case, and despite all the good work done so far, and all the good work to come is it really feasible for a club of our size to be self-sufficient in terms of finance? If that is what he is aiming for we are likely to be in the lower divisions forever. Surely there have to be injections of investment if we are to progress?


I would accept that we’re likely to make a loss due to investment in the new training facility and due to Voldemort getting his money, but purely taking income gained through crowds against the club’s normal expenditure (all overheads including wages) I’d be shocked if we weren’t currently projected to make a profit. You can’t tell me it’s all bad, money-wise. It’s the performances on the pitch I’m worried about right now!
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MuddyWaters
November 17, 2021, 4:46pm
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Exactly. He is talking like he was the owner of Dover FC rather than Grimsby Town. We have got more muscle than most in this division so let's use it. We cannot worry that some clubs might get bigger crowds than others, or more income from commercial activities any more than we can worry about some clubs having owners not afraid of spending their cash.

He seems to mention making a loss every time he makes a statement but he knew this was going to be the case, and despite all the good work done so far, and all the good work to come is it really feasible for a club of our size to be self-sufficient in terms of finance? If that is what he is aiming for we are likely to be in the lower divisions forever. Surely there have to be injections of investment if we are to progress?


I'm struggling with this if I'm honest. We're getting a parachute payment and thousands in extra gate receipts and there seems to be a constant warning of financial losses at the club.
This article smacks of the kid that's had its' sweets nicked from their school bag - 'it's not fair, it's not fair'. There's many clubs up and down the football pyramid that have got to compete with others that have significantly greater spending power. We've got to get on with it.
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moosey_club
November 17, 2021, 5:00pm
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Exactly. He is talking like he was the owner of Dover FC rather than Grimsby Town. We have got more muscle than most in this division so let's use it. We cannot worry that some clubs might get bigger crowds than others, or more income from commercial activities any more than we can worry about some clubs having owners not afraid of spending their cash.

He seems to mention making a loss every time he makes a statement but he knew this was going to be the case, and despite all the good work done so far, and all the good work to come is it really feasible for a club of our size to be self-sufficient in terms of finance? If that is what he is aiming for we are likely to be in the lower divisions forever. Surely there have to be injections of investment if we are to progress?


Depends what you describe as self sufficient and how to approach that. Being self sufficient in non league seemed to be quite an accomplishment for JF and his gang when we were top end of the league  largely, trophy runs, Wembley visits etc...but then Hurst gets promoted and wages rise, staffing level demands increase, equipment etc etc , crowds didn't increase as the squad got decimated and we turned into a circus.

The current owners understand the value of investment to raising standards and income. Speculate to accumulate and be prepared to underwrite that, within their capability should it fail, if they overspend in year 1 and 2 with a plan that by year 3 the investment starts to pay dividend for instance.
The JF way always seemed to be ...this is our traditional income therefore that is what you can spend and if for any reason we don't achieve that income he would underwrite add any debt to his benign loans that he doesn't want back. That's why he could stand behind a " we made a profit " stance...the club may have been dying on its @rse all around him but he could only see he wasn't losing money so equated that to good management.

I think the sustainable, self sufficient model we are now aiming for will look a whole lot different to the former.


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HerveJosse
November 17, 2021, 7:38pm
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On the subject of losses or profits the accounts for the year ending 31 May 2021 haven’t been issued to shareholders or filed at Companies House yet.
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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
November 17, 2021, 7:47pm
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Quoted from HerveJosse
On the subject of losses or profits the accounts for the year ending 31 May 2021 haven’t been issued to shareholders or filed at Companies House yet.


It’s only November!

They don’t have to be filed until the end of Feb.
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HerveJosse
November 17, 2021, 8:57pm
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It’s only November!

They don’t have to be filed until the end of Feb.


Historically sent to shareholders and AGM held in November with appropriate notice given first.
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HertsGTFC
November 17, 2021, 9:07pm

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I appreciate we’ve had years of being led by a skin flint who is now taking his stake back but can’t we just trust what Jason is saying and his informed view?


"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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MuddyWaters
November 17, 2021, 9:14pm
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Quoted from HertsGTFC
I appreciate we’ve had years of being led by a skin flint who is now taking his stake back but can’t we just trust what Jason is saying and his informed view?


He can’t change the rules on his own though!
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HertsGTFC
November 17, 2021, 9:28pm

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Quoted from MuddyWaters


He can’t change the rules on his own though!


Yeah I get that but one person usually has an idea at the start of most things.


"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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MuddyWaters
November 17, 2021, 9:31pm
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Quoted from HertsGTFC


Yeah I get that but one person usually has an idea at the start of most things.


Like this one?

https://www.chad.co.uk/sport/football/national-league-clubs-vote-to-introduce-salary-caps-3293705
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HertsGTFC
November 17, 2021, 9:45pm

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"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
November 17, 2021, 9:53pm
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Quoted from HerveJosse


Historically sent to shareholders and AGM held in November with appropriate notice given first.


Yes. The filing deadline for a plc is 6 months after the year end. They had to send to shareholders in Nov to meet the deadline.

Now we are a private limited company, it is 9 months, so no rush.

There is probably quite a lot of work involved with this being the first set of accounts since acquisition.
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MuddyWaters
November 17, 2021, 10:17pm
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Quoted from HertsGTFC


The salary cap?


Without wanting to be unduly negative, I see this article as a fairly honest assessment that we need to dumb down our expectations and that other clubs have got greater resources to get themselves back in the league.
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arryarryarry
November 17, 2021, 10:24pm
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Quoted from MuddyWaters


Without wanting to be unduly negative, I see this article as a fairly honest assessment that we need to dumb down our expectations and that other clubs have got greater resources to get themselves back in the league.


Do you mean, getting in the excuses early?
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KingstonMariner
November 17, 2021, 10:34pm
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Quoted from MuddyWaters


He can’t change the rules on his own though!


Re-read the article. We’re not the only club involved.


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Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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MuddyWaters
November 17, 2021, 10:36pm
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Quoted from KingstonMariner


Re-read the article. We’re not the only club involved.


I’ve read it three times.
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HerveJosse
November 17, 2021, 10:41pm
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Yes. The filing deadline for a plc is 6 months after the year end. They had to send to shareholders in Nov to meet the deadline.

Now we are a private limited company, it is 9 months, so no rush.

There is probably quite a lot of work involved with this being the first set of accounts since acquisition.


Every company public or private must hold at least one AGM in each calendar year.
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KingstonMariner
November 17, 2021, 10:41pm
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Quoted from MuddyWaters


I’ve read it three times.


So which bit of “This is why Grimsby Town are proud to be members of the Fair Game alliance” didn’t you understand? 3 times.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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MuddyWaters
November 17, 2021, 10:48pm
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Quoted from KingstonMariner


So which bit of “This is why Grimsby Town are proud to be members of the Fair Game alliance” didn’t you understand? 3 times.


I Googled ‘Fair Game Alliance’ and got several pages about gaming. I’m not sure quite what that says about its importance.
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DB
November 18, 2021, 1:28am
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Quoted from MuddyWaters


Without wanting to be unduly negative, I see this article as a fairly honest assessment that we need to dumb down our expectations and that other clubs have got greater resources to get themselves back in the league.


I didn't think the resources of Barrow, Harrogate, and Sutton were greater than those of Wrexham, Stockport, Chesterfield etc. It's the ability to have a united Team that counts, money helps but guarantees nothing.



You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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HertsGTFC
November 18, 2021, 5:23am

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Quoted from MuddyWaters


Without wanting to be unduly negative, I see this article as a fairly honest assessment that we need to dumb down our expectations and that other clubs have got greater resources to get themselves back in the league.


Possibly…..


"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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HertsGTFC
November 18, 2021, 5:24am

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Quoted from DB


I didn't think the resources of Barrow, Harrogate, and Sutton were greater than those of Wrexham, Stockport, Chesterfield etc. It's the ability to have a united Team that counts, money helps but guarantees nothing.



Agree, I think it just takes longer to get where you want to be and that’s the bit that’s hard to accept for some.


"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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Humbercod
November 18, 2021, 6:39am
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I think he’s telling us there’s no money to strengthen the team, no wonder Hurst looking drunk off.
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jamesgtfc
November 18, 2021, 7:55am
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Quoted from HerveJosse


Historically sent to shareholders and AGM held in November with appropriate notice given first.


I would like to think we are using a new accounting firm now after using a directors former employer for years which would add delay.
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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
November 18, 2021, 8:04am
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Quoted from HerveJosse


Every company public or private must hold at least one AGM in each calendar year.


Private companies don’t have to hold an AGM.

We might still choose to of course.

There’s nothing in the replacement Memo & Arts that requires an AGM.
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HerveJosse
November 18, 2021, 8:49am
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Private companies don’t have to hold an AGM.

We might still choose to of course.

There’s nothing in the replacement Memo & Arts that requires an AGM.


It would be surprising (pick your own alternative word) if the new owners whose mantra is transparency decided that there was to be no AGM thereby depriving shareholders who still own around 50 percent of the club and most of whom are also fans to ask the usual questions and participate in the business normally undertaken at an AGM.
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Northbank Mariner
November 18, 2021, 10:41am
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Quoted from HertsGTFC


Agree, I think it just takes longer to get where you want to be and that’s the bit that’s hard to accept for some.


Absolutely agree with this ...
S&P have just bought a club flat on its Harris after 17 years of mismanagement and zero investment with a decrepit ground and training facilities complete with shitshow of a boardroom
Pitch needed money, ground needed money, training facilities  needed money oh and we had to build a whole new squad!..and now everybody is b!tching because Stockwood has written an article about substantially in non league football clubs.
I'd say he's far more of an idea of what it takes to run a successful business and turning this juggernaut of mess round in a year would be impossible, think it's time to realise it may be a while before we reap the fruits of rewards from the seeds this new board are putting in place
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wuffing
November 18, 2021, 11:57am

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We really do need to put our faith in the new owners. They are open and always ready to talk with anyone. They are new to the job, so we must be understandable with them. The last thing we need to do is to p*ss them off with quick judgement. After all, there is always another *** waiting around the corner... 🙈










'I walked in the dressing room. The window was open and I thought that a sea fret had got in. Then I saw smoke billowing from a pipe in the corner of the room...it was my centre-forward. He looked seven stone wet through. He went on to score thirty-odd goals that season.' Lawrie McMenemy on encountering the legend that was Matt Tees.
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Trickytrev
November 18, 2021, 1:50pm
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Check out the latest from Reading,

Deducted six points for breaking EFL financial rules and lost 91.2 m.

Full story :- https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/59320479
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MuddyWaters
November 18, 2021, 2:44pm
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Quoted from jamesgtfc


I would like to think we are using a new accounting firm now after using a directors former employer for years which would add delay.


Why? Stephen Marley had retired as a partner of Weaver Wroot before he became a GTFC director.
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RichMariner
November 18, 2021, 3:04pm
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It seems to me that teams like Sutton and Barrow have enjoyed success because they are run sensibly. Harrogate too, I suppose, although they do have a bit of money behind them.

I do wonder whether sensible teams prosper because of so-called 'bigger' teams overspending and getting themselves into difficulty. A lot of teams go chasing the dream and when it doesn't happen they suddenly have to tighten the purse strings (and we only have to look down the road to see that in effect).

This gives rise to the more sensibly-run clubs. Big spenders may buy their way to titles and promotions but, in the long run, their success and even existence may be volatile.

A sensibly-run club will always be around and have a chance of success at the expense of the overspenders.

To overspend in the National League and then fail to get promoted is dangerous.


"Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood."
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jamesgtfc
November 18, 2021, 3:09pm
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Quoted from MuddyWaters


Why? Stephen Marley had retired as a partner of Weaver Wroot before he became a GTFC director.


Can you not see the possible risks there? Not saying anything untoward was going on, but if it was, a new accountancy firm would hopefully bring those issues to light. Plus, it's prudent to change every now and again too and new owners is a great reason to do that.

As for not holding an AGM this year, we don't need to hold one now we are private and I agree that in these new transparent times that we should be doing. But you can't hold an AGM if there aren't any accounts to talk about.
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arryarryarry
November 18, 2021, 3:10pm
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Quoted from RichMariner
It seems to me that teams like Sutton and Barrow have enjoyed success because they are run sensibly. Harrogate too, I suppose, although they do have a bit of money behind them.

I do wonder whether sensible teams prosper because of so-called 'bigger' teams overspending and getting themselves into difficulty. A lot of teams go chasing the dream and when it doesn't happen they suddenly have to tighten the purse strings (and we only have to look down the road to see that in effect).

This gives rise to the more sensibly-run clubs. Big spenders may buy their way to titles and promotions but, in the long run, their success and even existence may be volatile.

A sensibly-run club will always be around and have a chance of success at the expense of the overspenders.

To overspend in the National League and then fail to get promoted is dangerous.


I suppose it depends what the fans want, a club prepared to speculate or a sensibly run club that may spend years in non league.
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KingstonMariner
November 18, 2021, 3:18pm
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Quoted from MuddyWaters


I Googled ‘Fair Game Alliance’ and got several pages about gaming. I’m not sure quite what that says about its importance.


A search for “Fair Game” threw this up as the second link (the first was a film).

https://www.fairgameuk.org/


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Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 18, 2021, 3:23pm
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Quoted from RichMariner
It seems to me that teams like Sutton and Barrow have enjoyed success because they are run sensibly. Harrogate too, I suppose, although they do have a bit of money behind them.

I do wonder whether sensible teams prosper because of so-called 'bigger' teams overspending and getting themselves into difficulty. A lot of teams go chasing the dream and when it doesn't happen they suddenly have to tighten the purse strings (and we only have to look down the road to see that in effect).

This gives rise to the more sensibly-run clubs. Big spenders may buy their way to titles and promotions but, in the long run, their success and even existence may be volatile.

A sensibly-run club will always be around and have a chance of success at the expense of the overspenders.

To overspend in the National League and then fail to get promoted is dangerous.


Hopefully, we will now be a well-run club, but that does not mean we cannot buy a centre forward when we need one. Sutton Barrow and Harrogate do not get the gates (money) we do for a start. There always has to be a certain amount of speculate to accumulate in a competitive division like this.
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DB
November 18, 2021, 6:05pm
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Has anybody thought that instead of debating the need to buy a new No9 the state the club would have been totally different if Jason and Andrew hadn't bought it? 2 points above Dover perhaps!

There have been many good things happening and many more to come. We know what we have with the new owners and that is progress, the progress that has happened in 6 months far exceeds that of the previous 17 years.

The offer of training and jobs through the club is an excellent way for the club to make community progress. Again more in 1 stroke for local people than JF super fan did in 17 years. What J & A are doing is to make it a sustainable club.

Hurst has said many times he has and is trying to bring players in. Some clubs are reluctant to release his targets, some players are reluctant to come. Going back decades when we were in the Championship (old Div 2 ) we did attract good players including a Chinese International and ex-English internationals.

The club is on the move upwards from the mess it was in. We have to learn to be patient and support the club and players all we can. As I said above we could have been 2 points above Dover!!.


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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lew chaterleys lover
November 18, 2021, 6:15pm
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Quoted from DB
Has anybody thought that instead of debating the need to buy a new No9 the state the club would have been totally different if Jason and Andrew hadn't bought it? 2 points above Dover perhaps!

There have been many good things happening and many more to come. We know what we have with the new owners and that is progress, the progress that has happened in 6 months far exceeds that of the previous 17 years.

The offer of training and jobs through the club is an excellent way for the club to make community progress. Again more in 1 stroke for local people than JF super fan did in 17 years. What J & A are doing is to make it a sustainable club.

Hurst has said many times he has and is trying to bring players in. Some clubs are reluctant to release his targets, some players are reluctant to come. Going back decades when we were in the Championship (old Div 2 ) we did attract good players including a Chinese International and ex-English internationals.

The club is on the move upwards from the mess it was in. We have to learn to be patient and support the club and players all we can. As I said above we could have been 2 points above Dover!!.


? If we were 2 points above Dover we would be debating that. But we are not, we are obviously short of a player or two so we are debating that.
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DB
November 18, 2021, 6:35pm
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? If we were 2 points above Dover we would be debating that. But we are not, we are obviously short of a player or two so we are debating that.


I was merely expressing what a good position the club is in compared to what might have been.



You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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MuddyWaters
November 18, 2021, 6:40pm
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Quoted from DB


I was merely expressing what a good position the club is in compared to what might have been.



Then we need to take advantage of our good position and not let it slip through our fingers.
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Civvy at last
November 18, 2021, 7:11pm

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I know this is simplified.

But if we had budgeted £100,000 wages for a number 9 this season.
Then surely there is £100,000 left in the kitty. Which if only paying that for 2/3rds of a season would mean in reality a 33% increase in salary. Thus a better salary ( or a higher percentage of said players wages if a loanee) should be attractive to someone (or their club) !!
UTM


The wife was going away for a girly weekend.
I jokingly remarked  'I don't know whether to spend it watching porn or watching football'
'you may as well spend it watching porn' she replied
That's understanding darling what makes you say that? I asked

She said 'Well you already know how to play football'  
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lew chaterleys lover
November 18, 2021, 7:32pm
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Quoted from DB


I was merely expressing what a good position the club is in compared to what might have been.



I appreciate that and respect your unlimited positivity but current events do need debating without constant reference to how lucky we are to have JS and AP.

We must keep pushing to be better and although I admire all they are trying to do the most important thing that glues everything together is what happens on the field and the players we are able to sign.
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MuddyWaters
November 18, 2021, 7:37pm
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I appreciate that and respect your unlimited positivity but current events do need debating without constant reference to how lucky we are to have JS and AP.

We must keep pushing to be better and although I admire all they are trying to do the most important thing that glues everything together is what happens on the field and the players we are able to sign.


Very eloquently put LCL.

I’m delighted that the club has new owners but it will be football that defines their success. Some of what I read on here staggers me to be honest. No one should be beyond scrutiny.
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KingstonMariner
November 18, 2021, 9:42pm
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Quoted from Civvy at last
I know this is simplified.

But if we had budgeted £100,000 wages for a number 9 this season.
Then surely there is £100,000 left in the kitty. Which if only paying that for 2/3rds of a season would mean in reality a 33% increase in salary. Thus a better salary ( or a higher percentage of said players wages if a loanee) should be attractive to someone (or their club) !!
UTM


That’s good for this season but what if the players are looking for a longer term deal? Loan players aside.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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Vance Warner
November 18, 2021, 10:11pm
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What evidence does anyone have that lack of money is the thing that is stopping us bringing in a new striker? The owners have gone on record to say that there is a budget but that it can be extended if necessary.
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Northbank Mariner
November 18, 2021, 10:17pm
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Quoted from Vance Warner
What evidence does anyone have that lack of money is the thing that is stopping us bringing in a new striker? The owners have gone on record to say that there is a budget but that it can be extended if necessary.


Simple answer, nobody does!...
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realist
November 18, 2021, 10:36pm
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I'm disappointed that guardian readers have anything to do with this club. They are out of touch with reality.
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MuddyWaters
November 18, 2021, 10:41pm
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Quoted from realist
I'm disappointed that guardian readers have anything to do with this club. They are out of touch with reality.


That makes them ideal Town fans, most of us are. 😉
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KingstonMariner
November 18, 2021, 11:01pm
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Quoted from realist
I'm disappointed that guardian readers have anything to do with this club. They are out of touch with reality.


Love a bit of satire


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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aldi_01
November 19, 2021, 2:00pm

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Quoted from Vance Warner
What evidence does anyone have that lack of money is the thing that is stopping us bringing in a new striker? The owners have gone on record to say that there is a budget but that it can be extended if necessary.


Typical football fan mentality really, everything must be the fault of a lack of money…in truth there’s probably lots of factors; contract length, happy elsewhere, doesn’t want to work with Hurst, doesn’t want to travel, negative perception of the club for the last 17 years running off…

There’s a raft of reasons that don’t really relate to what money we offer…


'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
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Yoda
November 19, 2021, 6:08pm
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What worries me is even with bumper crowds we will loose money this year and next year.!!!
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jamesgtfc
November 20, 2021, 8:47pm
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Quoted from Yoda
What worries me is even with bumper crowds we will loose money this year and next year.!!!


Capital investment usually shows up as a loss on the accounts and it's perfectly fine here because it's all planned and underwritten by 1878.

Looks like the accounts are with the club but they have a few questions before they update us all and there will be a meeting, which I think will either be an AGM or similar to an AGM.
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