The Ref

So the Ref that sent Will off is the same Ref that ruled Jmac's  goal offside at Stockport.......Hmmmmmmk

He was a massive homer 😉

Consistent then....

I have seen the sending off on Twitter.

That is the worst decision I have ever seen in over 60 years of watching footy. He threw it at his head. In any event, so what??? It hit his head from a throw in so what is the problem?? In effect, he headed the ball!!!!    

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I have seen the sending off on Twitter.

That is the worst decision I have ever seen in over 60 years of watching footy. He threw it at his head. In any event, so what??? It hit his head from a throw in so what is the problem?? In effect, he headed the ball!!!!    

Think it was for failing to retreat . Joke

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I have seen the sending off on Twitter.

That is the worst decision I have ever seen in over 60 years of watching footy. He threw it at his head. In any event, so what??? It hit his head from a throw in so what is the problem?? In effect, he headed the ball!!!!    

It also looks like he enjoys sending players off the way that he pointed for him to leave the pitch. I bet he’s the sort of idiot that practices that at home, just so he gets it right on the pitch. He’s a tool.

Just checked the laws and, apparently, defenders are supposed to be 2 metres away from the thrower and aren't allowed to jump to distract them. If Bapaga did either then technically a booking is valid. I'm guessing that 99.9% of referees would give the player a warning before whipping out a card to send them off. At least, they ought to do so. In 40+ years of watching football, I've never seen a player receive a red card for anything similar to that and, truth be told, I can't remember anybody even being booked!

Quoted from Maringer

Just checked the laws and, apparently, defenders are supposed to be 2 metres away from the thrower and aren't allowed to jump to distract them. If Bapaga did either then technically a booking is valid. I'm guessing that 99.9% of referees would give the player a warning before whipping out a card to send them off. At least, they ought to do so. In 40+ years of watching football, I've never seen a player receive a red card for anything similar to that and, truth be told, I can't remember anybody even being booked!

So their player must have known that, decided that Bapaga was only 1.8 metres away and threw it hard at his head knowing full well he wanted to get him sent off. A booking for their player, surely? It was not a throw-in in the conventional sense, he threw the ball as hard as he could at his head! Talking of heads, it's done mine in!

Seriously though, players stand near to throw-ins all the time, but they don't expect the ball to be hurled at them.

Not seen footage of it yet, but it sounds like a shocker.

Still, all's well that ends well. A pity that Bapaga will get a suspension just as he's finding his form.

Probably the unpopular opinion but I don't see how we could argue it wasn't a yellow card.

Maringer has just posted what the laws of the game say on this, and Bapaga is comfortably closer than 2m, and jumps up in front of their guy.

It might seem harsh, especially compared to some other things that don't get punished. But its an easy call for the ref to make. Bapaga is an inexperienced player, probably on a high after scoring again, hell learn from it.

Great win tonight.

Quoted from Tommy

Probably the unpopular opinion but I don't see how we could argue it wasn't a yellow card.

Maringer has just posted what the laws of the game say on this, and Bapaga is comfortably closer than 2m, and jumps up in front of their guy.

It might seem harsh, especially compared to some other things that don't get punished. But its an easy call for the ref to make. Bapaga is an inexperienced player, probably on a high after scoring again, hell learn from it.

Great win tonight.

It looked a foul throw as well - one foot in the air as he tried to throw it as hard as he could at Bapagas head.

Anyway, all well that ends well but had that decision cost us this thread would run to 30 plus pages.

Quoted from Tommy

Probably the unpopular opinion but I don't see how we could argue it wasn't a yellow card.

Maringer has just posted what the laws of the game say on this, and Bapaga is comfortably closer than 2m, and jumps up in front of their guy.

It might seem harsh, especially compared to some other things that don't get punished. But its an easy call for the ref to make. Bapaga is an inexperienced player, probably on a high after scoring again, hell learn from it.

Great win tonight.

It’s definitely in the rule book but so is taking a throw in from the spot the ball left the pitch and players who are pulled going off from the nearest point rather than wasting time waking to the bench, my frustration is that sometimes refs seem to choose what rules to apply.

Ironic though considering he admitted that the ball was stopped from going into the net by a hand but their player was too close to ours to be handball.

The assessor will be cracking them out all night after that sending off.

Has anyone seen a player booked before for jumping in front of a throw in? Can't ever remember ever seeing it happen before, just our luck to be the first.

Did bapaga handle the ball?

Quoted from buckstown

Did bapaga handle the ball?

No. The ball went out with Bapaga on the touchline. Their lad picked up the ball as quickly as he could before Bapaga could move away and threw it as hard as he could at Bapaga's head. Instinctively he jumped and the ball hit him on the head.

In my opinion it should have been a yellow for their man for unsporting behaviour. And it was a foul throw.

Whatever the rights and wrongs the ref should have had more sense when he knew it would mean a sending off. It looked like he enjoyed it though to be honest.

So is this the first ever Yellow Card for Failure to Social Distance !!!!

Could easily have gone the other way as the ball was thrown directly at Bapaga's head - violent conduct.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

No. The ball went out with Bapaga on the touchline. Their lad picked up the ball as quickly as he could before Bapaga could move away and threw it as hard as he could at Bapaga's head. Instinctively he jumped and the ball hit him on the head.

In my opinion it should have been a yellow for their man for unsporting behaviour. And it was a foul throw.

Whatever the rights and wrongs the ref should have had more sense when he knew it would mean a sending off. It looked like he enjoyed it though to be honest.

A ridiculous decision. He applies the law so strictly in that case but ignores the law on a clear handball in the box? This ref made two decisions which were hugely advantageous to Altringham. A terrible performance. Just like the idiotic decision not to send the Dover player off on Saturday.

Thankfully we are so good that we can prevail even when having to overcome such pathetically incompetent and cowardly refereeing. I would hope that the club could make some kind of official complaint regarding this evenings shambolic officiating.        

Unpopular opinion but I think the refs got both decisions correct. Taylor’s DOGSO on Saturday was 50 yards out on an angle that has to be taken into consideration. With a defender level with him and in a straight line to goal rather than at an angle the ref has to make a decision if Taylor will get to a goal scoring opportunity (say the penalty spot) before the defender gets the cover on. You cannot say in a 35 yard race a player with the ball will definitely beat one without, so yellow card.
By the letter of the law Bapaga jumped which is a caution so after one in the first half the ref cannot apply common sense, he has to apply the law. We would be howling if the ref doesn’t do this in our favour. There’s a close up on Twitter and it’s not a foul throw, both feet are on the ground I’m afraid and in the wide shot there are two Altrincham players about 5 yards away so it looks like he’s trying to throw it quickly to them rather than into Bapaga. If Bapaga doesn’t jump, in my opinion, he doesn’t get cautioned. Jumping makes the decision for the ref.
Bring on the red crosses but I think we need to be a little more reflective here and not go the way of other “big clubs” and think the world is against us as it invariably turns out that way if you start to have a persecution complex!

I think the key here is that if they happened the other way around we’d expect and want the decisions made, leniency on the DOGSO and a second yellow for the throw in.

UTM

Quoted from LN8Mariner

Unpopular opinion but I think the refs got both decisions correct. Taylor’s DOGSO on Saturday was 50 yards out on an angle that has to be taken into consideration. With a defender level with him and in a straight line to goal rather than at an angle the ref has to make a decision if Taylor will get to a goal scoring opportunity (say the penalty spot) before the defender gets the cover on. You cannot say in a 35 yard race a player with the ball will definitely beat one without, so yellow card.
By the letter of the law Bapaga jumped which is a caution so after one in the first half the ref cannot apply common sense, he has to apply the law. We would be howling if the ref doesn’t do this in our favour. There’s a close up on Twitter and it’s not a foul throw, both feet are on the ground I’m afraid and in the wide shot there are two Altrincham players about 5 yards away so it looks like he’s trying to throw it quickly to them rather than into Bapaga. If Bapaga doesn’t jump, in my opinion, he doesn’t get cautioned. Jumping makes the decision for the ref.
Bring on the red crosses but I think we need to be a little more reflective here and not go the way of other “big clubs” and think the world is against us as it invariably turns out that way if you start to have a persecution complex!

I think the key here is that if they happened the other way around we’d expect and want the decisions made, leniency on the DOGSO and a second yellow for the throw in.

UTM

I definitely agree with you on the Bapaga incident. If Will jumped to block it, then it’s a second yellow card. Youthful exuberance and no damage done.  

The Taylor incident must have been close to a red card in as far as the defender made no attempt to play the ball. The other Dover centre-back was asleep and wasn’t covering. As you say, it was at a wide angle and 50 yards from goal so I can understand why the ref interpreted that it was not a DOGSO. Extremely cynical though. I’m not necessarily a fan of the sin-bin idea but that was definitely a prime candidate for a temporary spell on the sidelines.

Quoted from LN8Mariner

Unpopular opinion but I think the refs got both decisions correct. Taylor’s DOGSO on Saturday was 50 yards out on an angle that has to be taken into consideration. With a defender level with him and in a straight line to goal rather than at an angle the ref has to make a decision if Taylor will get to a goal scoring opportunity (say the penalty spot) before the defender gets the cover on. You cannot say in a 35 yard race a player with the ball will definitely beat one without, so yellow card.
By the letter of the law Bapaga jumped which is a caution so after one in the first half the ref cannot apply common sense, he has to apply the law. We would be howling if the ref doesn’t do this in our favour. There’s a close up on Twitter and it’s not a foul throw, both feet are on the ground I’m afraid and in the wide shot there are two Altrincham players about 5 yards away so it looks like he’s trying to throw it quickly to them rather than into Bapaga. If Bapaga doesn’t jump, in my opinion, he doesn’t get cautioned. Jumping makes the decision for the ref.
Bring on the red crosses but I think we need to be a little more reflective here and not go the way of other “big clubs” and think the world is against us as it invariably turns out that way if you start to have a persecution complex!

I think the key here is that if they happened the other way around we’d expect and want the decisions made, leniency on the DOGSO and a second yellow for the throw in.

UTM

I haven’t seen least nights but I agree, Taylor was too far from goal for it to be denying a clear goal scoring opportunity. Yellow all day long

Bear in mind that Taylor had a clear run, was on his strongest side and the nearest defender was 30 yards infield. He would undoubtedly have been able to get a shot off at the edge of the penalty area at least and from a decent angle on his left foot had he been allowed to run through on goal. It's not as if the ball was moving down the line, either, it was rolling directly towards goal when he was dragged down. Taylor had a straight run to goal, the ball was moving directly towards the goal and he didn't need to do anything but keep it under control as he ran to get there. For me, there was no doubt it was DOGSO.

If that wasn't DOGSO, then defenders might as well rugby tackle forwards in that position. Less risky than allowing a clean run and shot.

Quoted from supertown

I haven’t seen least nights but I agree, Taylor was too far from goal for it to be denying a clear goal scoring opportunity. Yellow all day long

So the Wrexham defender should have dragged Max Wright down as he surged past the half way line in the 90th minute as he was too far from goal for it to be a goal scoring opportunity? Just a yellow then?

Don't think so. the last man is the last man.

Quoted from LN8Mariner

Unpopular opinion but I think the refs got both decisions correct. Taylor’s DOGSO on Saturday was 50 yards out on an angle that has to be taken into consideration. With a defender level with him and in a straight line to goal rather than at an angle the ref has to make a decision if Taylor will get to a goal scoring opportunity (say the penalty spot) before the defender gets the cover on. You cannot say in a 35 yard race a player with the ball will definitely beat one without, so yellow card.
By the letter of the law Bapaga jumped which is a caution so after one in the first half the ref cannot apply common sense, he has to apply the law. We would be howling if the ref doesn’t do this in our favour. There’s a close up on Twitter and it’s not a foul throw, both feet are on the ground I’m afraid and in the wide shot there are two Altrincham players about 5 yards away so it looks like he’s trying to throw it quickly to them rather than into Bapaga. If Bapaga doesn’t jump, in my opinion, he doesn’t get cautioned. Jumping makes the decision for the ref.
Bring on the red crosses but I think we need to be a little more reflective here and not go the way of other “big clubs” and think the world is against us as it invariably turns out that way if you start to have a persecution complex!

I think the key here is that if they happened the other way around we’d expect and want the decisions made, leniency on the DOGSO and a second yellow for the throw in.

UTM

Referering is more than just applying the letter of the law.

Bapaga being a winger was next to the touchline when the ball went out. He did not run towards the thrower to try to prevent the throw or gain an unfair advantage.  The throw was taken so quickly and thrown at him so fast what was he supposed to do?

The thrower was trying to get him in trouble.  Any professional player would instinctively jump if the ball is heading for him. There is also a still on Twitter showing one foot is off the ground as he tried to throw it as hard as he could.

In the case of Taylor at the weekend then defenders should just haul down anybody clean through and take a booking which is exactly what the FA has tried to stamp out.

Imagine if Max Wright had been hauled back by Wrexham when he was clean through to just get a yellow?

Not seen last night's incident yet but the law that should be changed is not allowing an appeal against 2 yellows. If it was as bad as some say, then surely there should be some sort of appeal process.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Referering is more than just applying the letter of the law.

Bapaga being a winger was next to the touchline when the ball went out. He did not run towards the thrower to try to prevent the throw or gain an unfair advantage.  The throw was taken so quickly and thrown at him so fast what was he supposed to do?

The thrower was trying to get him in trouble.  Any professional player would instinctively jump if the ball is heading for him. There is also a still on Twitter showing one foot is off the ground as he tried to throw it as hard as he could.

In the case of Taylor at the weekend then defenders should just haul down anybody clean through and take a booking which is exactly what the FA has tried to stamp out.

Imagine if Max Wright had been hauled back by Wrexham when he was clean through to just get a yellow?

Best answer of the lot on this thread. The thrower actively runs towards Bapaga and then throws the ball right at him. I’d not be giving a yellow for it.

Why didn't the ref consult the linesman? He had a better view of it.  It looks to me that the ref jumped to his conclusion too quickly

We can debate the rights and wrongs of his second yellow. The first was a joke and wasn’t even a foul. Why are non league refs so terrible?
Genuine question, cos it’s non league  are the refs FA appointed ?

I think common sense should prevail, we were 3-0 up and not exactly looking to waste time or hold play up. If it was 1-0 and we were under the cosh and trying to disrupt play wasting time then I'd totally understand a yellow card

Milner should have had 3 yellow cards against Man City.  He still finished the game.

We can all definitely agree it was a big three points.

Tricky away fixture (unbeaten at home before last night, three consecutive wins with games in hand). Rubbish weather. Potential for anti-climatic performance three days after a 6-0 thrashing of Dover.

We then concede 8 mins after the red card, Altrincham get a second and many Grimsby sides of the past 20 years would have buckled like a limp, worm-infested cod.

36 games to go. After this start, two points per game might be enough from here on in, with the 'bigger' teams taking points off each other.

Not even DB can have predicted a start like this  . Long, long way to go but signs are certainly positive.

Quoted from TownSNAFU5

Milner should have had 3 yellow cards against Man City.  He still finished the game.

The Anfield factor?

The taylor incident was a clear red all day long. The ball was going towards goal with all there players apart from keeper behind him. It doesn't get a much clearer goalscoring opportunity than that.
Maybe people had better have a word with max wright that he can't have scored that goal against Wrexham as there was no opportunity to do so  - he started from his own half with a playe betweenhim and their goal and a ball that needed controlling.

The only reason not for a straight red is if the ref thought the ball was going down the line instead of towards goal, but it wasn't.

Taylor's was a goalscoring opportunity. Plain as day. If he hadn't hauled him down, he'd have been closing in on the keeper without another challenge coming in.

Bapaga? Mixed thoughts. Definite gamesmanship from the Alty player, could've been booked himself. Definite foul throw - both feet weren't on the ground (but when are they? Every throw in every division is a foul throw these days).

Refs seem to decide on a whim when they want to apply the law 'technically'. A lot allow common sense to prevail. The inconsistency driven by that is what undermines them.

Having said all this, I do feel like Town are victims to a lot of bad decisions. Luckily - Stockport apart - it hasn't really cost us points. We had a shocker of a decision against us on our last visit to Altrincham, which did cost us the game.

And I still can't get over the time we scored a free kick at Salford but the fourth official intervened to say Matt Green was interfering in the wall. Have any of you ever seen a goal disallowed for the same reason since?

Trust us to get punished on technicalities that you just don't see anywhere else!

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

We can all definitely agree it was a big three points.

Tricky away fixture (unbeaten at home before last night, three consecutive wins with games in hand). Rubbish weather. Potential for anti-climatic performance three days after a 6-0 thrashing of Dover.

We then concede 8 mins after the red card, Altrincham get a second and many Grimsby sides of the past 20 years would have buckled like a limp, worm-infested cod.

36 games to go. After this start, two points per game might be enough from here on in, with the 'bigger' teams taking points off each other.

Not even DB can have predicted a start like this  . Long, long way to go but signs are certainly positive.

Only 34 games to go Knut. Only 23 teams in the division.

PS. Get the rationale for the Bapaga booking but what about the handball by their player which blocked the shot?

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Only 34 games to go Knut. Only 23 teams in the division.

Yes, just testing!

I was of course referring to the 34 league games + the Bromsgrove defeat and FA Trophy defeat (honest!! )

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

Yes, just testing!

I was of course referring to the 34 league games + the Bromsgrove defeat and FA Trophy defeat (honest!! )

That’s a Filipe Douce level excuse!

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

Yes, just testing!

I was of course referring to the 34 league games + the Bromsgrove defeat and FA Trophy defeat (honest!! )

I suspected as much, but I wanted to make sure everyone else understood your brilliance.

😉😉

Quoted from Maringer

Just checked the laws and, apparently, defenders are supposed to be 2 metres away from the thrower and aren't allowed to jump to distract them. If Bapaga did either then technically a booking is valid. I'm guessing that 99.9% of referees would give the player a warning before whipping out a card to send them off. At least, they ought to do so. In 40+ years of watching football, I've never seen a player receive a red card for anything similar to that and, truth be told, I can't remember anybody even being booked!

But he didn't jump until the ball was in the air. He wasn't jumping to distract their player at all.

It's time a supporters group had a look at the duty of care (towards paying customers) because this is now 3 or 4 times this season already where the officials have messed things up for us.

Quoted from malkamalka

But he didn't jump until the ball was in the air. He wasn't jumping to distract their player at all.

It's time a supporters group had a look at the duty of care (towards paying customers) because this is now 3 or 4 times this season already where the officials have messed things up for us.

Somebody posted the laws on Twitter and Bapaga did nothing wrong. It was an entirely different scenario to where a player runs up to the thrower to put him off or holds up the taking of the throw. Bapaga was doing the opposite and shuffling back to get into position.

If this were to be allowed to continue, any player taking a throw-in could take one at lightning-quick speed and throw it at the nearest opposition player to get him booked. It is both ridiculous and against the laws of the game and the spirit of the game. As Paul Hurst said last night - what can you do if somebody throws the ball at you?

On your wider point, I am assuming refs get assessed all the time. There would certainly be an outcry if this particular ref takes us again.

Quoted from RonMariner

That’s a Filipe Douce level excuse!

As Fillipe would say, ‘If you don’t know the National League only has 23 teams in it are you really a fan of Grimsby Wanderers?!’.

Quoted from Maringer

Just checked the laws and, apparently, defenders are supposed to be 2 metres away from the thrower and aren't allowed to jump to distract them. If Bapaga did either then technically a booking is valid. I'm guessing that 99.9% of referees would give the player a warning before whipping out a card to send them off. At least, they ought to do so. In 40+ years of watching football, I've never seen a player receive a red card for anything similar to that and, truth be told, I can't remember anybody even being booked!

At what point are you allowed to jump? When a throw in goes in the air down the line, players will jump to head it. Bapaga jumped after the ball was thrown didn't he?

He didn't stand directly in front of he player and jump to impede his throw.

I've not yet seen the incident, so I could be mistaken.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

I definitely agree with you on the Bapaga incident. If Will jumped to block it, then it’s a second yellow card. Youthful exuberance and no damage done.  

The Taylor incident must have been close to a red card in as far as the defender made no attempt to play the ball. The other Dover centre-back was asleep and wasn’t covering. As you say, it was at a wide angle and 50 yards from goal so I can understand why the ref interpreted that it was not a DOGSO. Extremely cynical though. I’m not necessarily a fan of the sin-bin idea but that was definitely a prime candidate for a temporary spell on the sidelines.

I don’t think he was jumping to block the throw.  He was stepping backwards away from the thrower and mid step when his feet are off the ground, the player throws the ball at him.  He was retreating and it was a deliberate attempt to get him booked.  No say should it have it have been a booking.

Quoted from LondonMariner43

I don’t think he was jumping to block the throw.  He was stepping backwards away from the thrower and mid step when his feet are off the ground, the player throws the ball at him.  He was retreating and it was a deliberate attempt to get him booked.  No say should it have it have been a booking.

Some of these are bordering on Jasper Carrot style insurance claim form excuses…

‘I knocked over a man. He admitted it was his fault as he had been run over before’.

‘Going to work at 7am this morning I drove out of my drive straight into a bus. The bus was 5 minutes early’.

‘That £200k of Trust shares was just resting in my account’.

They take a different approach to poor refs in other countries. Not condoning it of course.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58820881

“I drove into the wrong driveway and collided with a tree that I don’t have”.

“I saw a rather sad-faced old gentleman bounce off my windscreen as he went over the roof”.

“I hit a man in the road with my car as he couldn’t decide which way to run”.

" I was running backwards when the ball hit me in the face making me see red... as the ref waved a card at me to check my sight was ok ! "

As lame an excuse as the ref's actions !