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Derby County going in to admin

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Rob_in_Grimsby
September 17, 2021, 11:21pm
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jamesgtfc
September 17, 2021, 11:40pm
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Do you think that they think Covid caused this?
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IlkleyMariner
September 17, 2021, 11:47pm
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Not covid
Just irresponsible financial management bordering on the illegal.
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jamesgtfc
September 17, 2021, 11:53pm
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Quoted from IlkleyMariner
Not covid
Just irresponsible financial management bordering on the illegal.


That's not what their statement says. It's all Covid's fault.
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arryarryarry
September 18, 2021, 12:01am
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Quoted from jamesgtfc


That's not what their statement says. It's all Covid's fault.


Is Ian Holloway in charge there now?
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137
September 18, 2021, 7:14am
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Quoted from jamesgtfc
That's not what their statement says. It's all Covid's fault.


James, as far as I know I have never met IlkleyMariner.

That having been said, I would still be very strongly inclined to believe IM rather than the Derby Board on this one.
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aldi_01
September 18, 2021, 7:39am

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Football league should’ve grown a pair in three summer done it then and relegated them.

Derby have over spent for years. A firmer colleague was a scout for Liverpool and later Man City, he’d been a successful pro so he knew a thing or two. I accompanied him to a few Derby games, one game they boasted about having a budget better than top flight club…they inevitably lost in the playoffs.

Chasing a dream that never happened…nobody else or nothing else to blame but themselves…


'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
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Abdul19
September 18, 2021, 7:43am

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I know they lost £46.66m in 17/18 but I always liked Tosh Lines.


JESUS AT THE CENTRE
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GollyGTFC
September 18, 2021, 7:47am

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Derby have been a regular feature on the Price of Football podcast since it started pretty much. They have been a shambles. They weren’t eligible for EFL COVID loans because of the state of their finances and because they haven’t published any accounts with Companies House since about 2018.

Derby claim they are being targeted by the EFL. The truth is of course that the EFL are the clubs. It’s the other 23 Championship clubs that are furious with Derby’s financial issues- selling their stadium at a vastly inflated fee and having their own take on calculating amortisation of players that both cheated the FFP system.

You have a division where virtually every club loses over £500,000 a week and use any trick in the book to pass FFP. When all the others clubs are objecting to Derby’s blatant breaches of the system it shows how brazen Derby have been in ignoring FFP. They went well beyond the legal loopholes used by other clubs. They cheated and nearly got promoted to the Premier League by doing it.

But of course it’s not their fault.
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Davec
September 18, 2021, 8:08am
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Quoted from Abdul19
I know they lost £46.66m in 17/18 but I always liked Tosh Lines.


What's The Bill got to do with it😉
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TAGG
September 18, 2021, 8:37am

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Quoted from Davec


What's The Bill got to do with it😉


Good spot  


In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions.
Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them.
GOD
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Poojah
September 18, 2021, 8:38am
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The ghost of Scunny future.


A smooth sea never made a skillful mariner.
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exiledmeggie
September 18, 2021, 8:55am
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I think they’re the first of many to fall this year. Bad management and gold chasing has caused this. Yesterday I muted about the Scunts. Who’s next?


Living in Exile since 1980, but still have Black and White blood!
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Mariner Ronnie
September 18, 2021, 8:57am

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Quoted from exiledmeggie
I think they’re the first of many to fall this year. Bad management and gold chasing has caused this. Yesterday I muted about the Scunts. Who’s next?


Oldham
Swindon

They seem to be on a knife edge recently.


Today we got our team back - town fan leaving Wembley may 2016
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wigworld
September 18, 2021, 9:27am

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Quoted from Davec


What's The Bill got to do with it😉


They can't pay it now.
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Civvy at last
September 18, 2021, 9:43am

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I thought Wayne Rooney owned them now.

Because every time they are mentioned on the telly it’s always

‘Wayne Rooneys Derby County’ 😉


The wife was going away for a girly weekend.
I jokingly remarked  'I don't know whether to spend it watching porn or watching football'
'you may as well spend it watching porn' she replied
That's understanding darling what makes you say that? I asked

She said 'Well you already know how to play football'  
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aldi_01
September 18, 2021, 9:46am

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Quoted from Civvy at last
I thought Wayne Rooney owned them now.

Because every time they are mentioned on the telly it’s always

‘Wayne Rooneys Derby County’ 😉


Yeh, I assumed once Lampard sold them they became Rooney’s Derby.

I’m with golly though, I’ve read similar and Derby keep pulling the old ‘it’s not our fault. The EFL are after us’ nonsense…I mean the EFL are so after them they allowed them to cheat last year and kept them up sending Wycombe down…


'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
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acko338
September 18, 2021, 11:14am
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Possible immediate 21 points deduction, with finance problems added to the normal 12, and another 3 lurking in the background !!
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Nelly GTFC
September 18, 2021, 12:12pm
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Yet again the club itself and the fans suffer while the owners, directors and anyone who should be held accountable get away with it.

Derby always seemed to bring a well behaved big crowd whenever we played them even in a freindly, and no cretins running riot like the thugs from Sheffield United/Wednesday.


Performance / Top Scorers / Assists / Discipline - Grimsby Town Statistics >> [url]https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team/squad/_/id/386/eng.grimsby[/url]
Form Over Last 10 Games - Grimsby Town >> [url]https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/grimsby-town/form-guide/ten[/url]
Player Contracts - Grimsby Town >> [url]http://codalmighty.com/site/ca.php?article=4202[/url]
Links on football clubs inc Grimsby Town >> [url]https://footballclubforums.com/[/url]
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Les Brechin
September 18, 2021, 12:14pm

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Quoted from Nelly GTFC
Yet again the club itself and the fans suffer while the owners, directors and anyone who should be held accountable get away with it.

Derby always seemed to bring a big crowd whenever we played them even in a freindly and no cretins running riot like the thugs from Sheffield United/Wednesday.


Apart from when we play at Alfreton!


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Nelly GTFC
September 18, 2021, 12:18pm
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Quoted from Les Brechin
Apart from when we play at Alfreton!
Was there any 100% proof of that, Alfreton is closer to Mansfield anyway.


Performance / Top Scorers / Assists / Discipline - Grimsby Town Statistics >> [url]https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team/squad/_/id/386/eng.grimsby[/url]
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Les Brechin
September 18, 2021, 12:23pm

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Quoted from Nelly GTFC
Was there any 100% proof of that, Alfreton is closer to Mansfield anyway.


Fairly sure there was more than one Derby address listed when it was reported in the paper.


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Nelly GTFC
September 18, 2021, 12:31pm
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Quoted from Les Brechin
Fairly sure there was more than one Derby address listed when it was reported in the paper.
I think you're right, I'm not 100% sure, but I now seem to recall they didn't have a fixture that day?

I think the sensible thing to say is the majority of fans from clubs are decent people, and only a minority of idiots from clubs are trouble.  I wonder how many Port Vale thugs went on the riot here the other year, Mansfield tried to cause a lot of trouble down Grimsby Road the other year as well.


Performance / Top Scorers / Assists / Discipline - Grimsby Town Statistics >> [url]https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team/squad/_/id/386/eng.grimsby[/url]
Form Over Last 10 Games - Grimsby Town >> [url]https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/grimsby-town/form-guide/ten[/url]
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Grimsbynewhope
September 18, 2021, 12:33pm
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Quoted from GollyGTFC
Derby have been a regular feature on the Price of Football podcast since it started pretty much. They have been a shambles. They weren’t eligible for EFL COVID loans because of the state of their finances and because they haven’t published any accounts with Companies House since about 2018.

Derby claim they are being targeted by the EFL. The truth is of course that the EFL are the clubs. It’s the other 23 Championship clubs that are furious with Derby’s financial issues- selling their stadium at a vastly inflated fee and having their own take on calculating amortisation of players that both cheated the FFP system.

You have a division where virtually every club loses over £500,000 a week and use any trick in the book to pass FFP. When all the others clubs are objecting to Derby’s blatant breaches of the system it shows how brazen Derby have been in ignoring FFP. They went well beyond the legal loopholes used by other clubs. They cheated and nearly got promoted to the Premier League by doing it.

But of course it’s not their fault.

Always makes me laugh when FFP is mentioned as it was put in place to protect the well-being of football when in reality it was to make sure the biggest clubs in football would stay at the top, just like their attempt to form a European super league a few months back.

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KingstonMariner
September 18, 2021, 12:37pm
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Quoted from Nelly GTFC
Yet again the club itself and the fans suffer while the owners, directors and anyone who should be held accountable get away with it.

Derby always seemed to bring a well behaved big crowd whenever we played them even in a freindly, and no cretins running riot like the thugs from Sheffield United/Wednesday.


Presumably, like the Scunny fans, they were pretty happy to go along with years of overspending, and not innocent in their own way.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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Nelly GTFC
September 18, 2021, 12:50pm
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Quoted from KingstonMariner
Presumably, like the Scunny fans, they were pretty happy to go along with years of overspending, and not innocent in their own way.
I dunno, it looks like Derby had an average of around 26,000 attendances over the last 10-years in the championship, as a fan of a club with that sort of revenue, I would assume to spend abit more than other clubs down the ladder. At the end of the day, it's the people controlling the club that controls the finances, I don't think the fans are to blame.


Performance / Top Scorers / Assists / Discipline - Grimsby Town Statistics >> [url]https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team/squad/_/id/386/eng.grimsby[/url]
Form Over Last 10 Games - Grimsby Town >> [url]https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/grimsby-town/form-guide/ten[/url]
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Manchester Mariner
September 18, 2021, 12:57pm

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Ideas above their station and spending beyond their means in a quest to make the Premier League and the Premier League money. Didn't make the Premier League and couldn't pull off sly sponsor/ground ownership tricks similar to Manchester City, nor are they able to lawyer up to the max like City so they find themselves in administration blaming everything but themselves.

I feel bad for Wycombe who really turned things round in the run in last season and would've stayed up if it wasn't for Derby.


"Lovelly stuff! not my words but the words of Shakin Stevens."
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exiledmeggie
September 18, 2021, 1:09pm
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My love affair with certain clubs and their bankrupt owners came to an end when Portsmouth cheated their FA Cup win and Cheltenham were relegated because of Notts County's administration!

Thankfully Notts County are now where they should have been years ago!

So much for FFP!


Living in Exile since 1980, but still have Black and White blood!
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KingstonMariner
September 18, 2021, 1:54pm
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Quoted from Nelly GTFC
I dunno, it looks like Derby had an average of around 26,000 attendances over the last 10-years in the championship, as a fan of a club with that sort of revenue, I would assume to spend abit more than other clubs down the ladder. At the end of the day, it's the people controlling the club that controls the finances, I don't think the fans are to blame.


I know they don’t take the decisions, but they must have known what was going on. They must have a voice via the trust. Can’t be moaning about it now if they’ve kept silent for years.


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Sandford1981
September 18, 2021, 8:01pm
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Quoted from KingstonMariner


I know they don’t take the decisions, but they must have known what was going on. They must have a voice via the trust. Can’t be moaning about it now if they’ve kept silent for years.


We had/have a trust and we still had 20 years of abject misery at the hands of he who shall no longer be named!


“I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards.” –Garth Marenghi
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barralad
September 18, 2021, 8:25pm
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Quoted from Les Brechin


Apart from when we play at Alfreton!


We (as in my mate and I-not The Trust) were talking to the police football co-ordinator and he said most of those causing trouble had banning orders at Derby.


The aim of argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.

Joseph Joubert.
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KingstonMariner
September 18, 2021, 8:43pm
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Quoted from Sandford1981


We had/have a trust and we still had 20 years of abject misery at the hands of he who shall no longer be named!


The trust haven’t been around for 20 years. Not enough people joined it never had the power until gifted the shares by Mike Parker, and then it was blackmailed into giving some up. Fenty was not the fault of the Trust but arguably the people that stood on the sidelines and did nothing.


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Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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Sandford1981
September 18, 2021, 9:36pm
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Quoted from KingstonMariner


The trust haven’t been around for 20 years. Not enough people joined it never had the power until gifted the shares by Mike Parker, and then it was blackmailed into giving some up. Fenty was not the fault of the Trust but arguably the people that stood on the sidelines and did nothing.


You're right and I absolutely agree Fenty was not the fault of the trust, Fenty is responsible for Fenty.
I’m a trust member and was in no way, shape or form casting aspersions on them.
I was making the point having a trust doesn’t necessarily stop a football club being run terribly despite fans having a voice.
We being the case in point even if we didn’t have the voice for all of those years.


“I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards.” –Garth Marenghi
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GollyGTFC
September 21, 2021, 7:05am

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Some of the figures in the Derby administration are incredible. I don’t see how they can possibly avoid being liquidated. No one with any sense will touch them…

1) Realistically they are going to be in L1 next season with a huge drop in revenue.

2) They owe HMRC £26m and that will need repaying in full.

3) All football debts need to be paid in full.

4) All on going football contracts need to be honoured (approx £1m a month) and they don’t have relegation clauses in their player contracts.

5) They don’t own Pride Park or their training ground. No assets for the administrator to sell to fund continuing to operate. (The DW Stadium and training ground were key to Wigan being rescued. The stadium was packaged with club and sold together & PNE bought their training complex).

So even if somebody buys the club for £1 they will have to settle all the debts (£50m approx) and carry on funding the club (£1m a month in FLC but will be much higher in L1) until contracts run down and costs can be controlled. And on top of that they’ll have to buy Pride Park & the training ground from Mel Morris- around £70m based on what was received by DCFC when they were sold.

Can’t see them being rescued. Liquidation seems the most likely outcome unless a billionaire suddenly comes out the woodwork. But can’t see that happening as club has been for sale for 3 years and no one has come forward with an offer.

Could be good news for Scunny. 23rd in L2 will get a reprieve if Derby are liquidated.

Oh and I listened to Mel Morris’ hour long interview with BBC Radio Derby from Sunday. He reminded me of Peter Swann.
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toontown
September 21, 2021, 7:50am
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Quoted from GollyGTFC
Some of the figures in the Derby administration are incredible. I don’t see how they can possibly avoid being liquidated. No one with any sense will touch them…

1) Realistically they are going to be in L1 next season with a huge drop in revenue.

2) They owe HMRC £26m and that will need repaying in full.

3) All football debts need to be paid in full.

4) All on going football contracts need to be honoured (approx £1m a month) and they don’t have relegation clauses in their player contracts.

5) They don’t own Pride Park or their training ground. No assets for the administrator to sell to fund continuing to operate. (The DW Stadium and training ground were key to Wigan being rescued. The stadium was packaged with club and sold together & PNE bought their training complex).

So even if somebody buys the club for £1 they will have to settle all the debts (£50m approx) and carry on funding the club (£1m a month in FLC but will be much higher in L1) until contracts run down and costs can be controlled. And on top of that they’ll have to buy Pride Park & the training ground from Mel Morris- around £70m based on what was received by DCFC when they were sold.

Can’t see them being rescued. Liquidation seems the most likely outcome unless a billionaire suddenly comes out the woodwork. But can’t see that happening as club has been for sale for 3 years and no one has come forward with an offer.

Could be good news for Scunny. 23rd in L2 will get a reprieve if Derby are liquidated.

Oh and I listened to Mel Morris’ hour long interview with BBC Radio Derby from Sunday. He reminded me of Peter Swann.


Wow. Does liquidation effectively mean ceasing to exist then? So have to start again as a phoenix club?
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GollyGTFC
September 21, 2021, 8:08am

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Quoted from toontown


Wow. Does liquidation effectively mean ceasing to exist then? So have to start again as a phoenix club?


Yes, the same as Chester, Halifax, Darlington, Macclesfield and others.

Wigan only realistically survived because early in their administration the training ground was sold to Preston North End and that gave the administrators enough money to continue trading. Derby have no tangible assets that can be sold to raise money.

Derby’s administration will be short. Someone with more money than sense will come forward or they’ll be liquidated. I can’t see any middle ground.
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BobbyCummingsTackle
September 21, 2021, 9:24am
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You could see a billionaire stepping in at the last minute when the buying price has hit rock bottom because the potential at that club is enormous - as mentioned earlier, average crowds of 26000 in the championship.

All the other clubs who have gone to the wall (Chester, Maidstone, Bury, Aldershot etc) couldn't dream of those kinds of crowds. If every fan pays an average of 20 quid per game that's 520 000 quid per game before food, merchandise, sponsorship etc etc

And the city of Derby loves that club, they would get behind a benefactor who they believed had their, the city and the club's interests at heart. A bit like what is happening at another club that we all know well...


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TownSNAFU5
September 21, 2021, 11:01am
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Yes, Derby have potential, history and can attract big gates.  They were Prem (equiv) champions in living memory and reached the semi-finals of the European Cup.

These factors are no use to them now though. History seems to count for very little.

Leeds and Forest went further in the European Cup (when it was only for league champions). and they had or have serious financial problems still, look at Forest now.
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BobbyCummingsTackle
September 21, 2021, 11:33am
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Quoted from TownSNAFU5
Yes, Derby have potential, history and can attract big gates.  They were Prem (equiv) champions in living memory and reached the semi-finals of the European Cup.

These factors are no use to them now though. History seems to count for very little.

Leeds and Forest went further in the European Cup (when it was only for league champions). and they had or have serious financial problems still, look at Forest now.


I am the last person to say that these clubs 'deserve' to be higher up the league, my point was all about how much money you can generate with crowds of 26000+ on a regular basis. It can paper over a lot of cracks.


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psgmariner
September 21, 2021, 3:53pm

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Reading are looking likely to join them as well.

Plus all is not rosy at Hull.

Championship is a bit of basket case all round as clubs gamble on making it to 'the promised land'.


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Poojah
September 21, 2021, 4:02pm
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Quoted from psgmariner
Reading are looking likely to join them as well.

Plus all is not rosy at Hull.

Championship is a bit of basket case all round as clubs gamble on making it to 'the promised land'.


Re: Hull, didn’t the Allam’s effectively save them from a similar predicament before getting them back into the Prem and proceeding to pìss their entire fan base off through their bizarre desire to change the club’s name to Hull Tigers?

Absolutely baffling that they would sink so much money into the club and then allow it just to unravel all over again.


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aldi_01
September 21, 2021, 6:48pm

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Quoted from Poojah


Re: Hull, didn’t the Allam’s effectively save them from a similar predicament before getting them back into the Prem and proceeding to pìss their entire fan base off through their bizarre desire to change the club’s name to Hull Tigers?

Absolutely baffling that they would sink so much money into the club and then allow it just to unravel all over again.


There was the issue with ticket price increases and a whole raft of other stuff.

Queued up for some trainers last summer at size? In Hull. Spent much of the night talking with Hull fans; rivalries to one side, it was just fans of two clubs with horrific owners and in dire states…


'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
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DB
September 21, 2021, 7:12pm
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So if Derby go to the wall, then 3 go up from the NL to balance the numbers in the EFL. Adios Derby and a better position for Town to be in, come the end of the season


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September 21, 2021, 7:31pm
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More likely one less team relegated to the NL


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aldi_01
September 21, 2021, 7:36pm

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Quoted from KingstonMariner
More likely one less team relegated to the NL


We all know this would be the case, the EFL ‘protecting its members’…


'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
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September 21, 2021, 8:15pm

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Quoted from aldi_01


There was the issue with ticket price increases and a whole raft of other stuff.

Queued up for some trainers last summer at size? In Hull. Spent much of the night talking with Hull fans; rivalries to one side, it was just fans of two clubs with horrific owners and in dire states…


Are you saying you queued all night for trainers?

The world's gone mad.  
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aldi_01
September 22, 2021, 5:46am

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Quoted from ginnywings


Are you saying you queued all night for trainers?

The world's gone mad.  


Plenty of folk do it…


'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
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RonMariner
September 22, 2021, 8:34am

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Someone will step in and buy them. They won’t need to buy the ground, they will rent it. HMRC will do a deal to be paid back over a number of years. The wage bill will be slashed by the administrators to allow them to operate. Rooney, who is on £90k per week will be one of the first to go.

They will most likely end up in L1 but will survive and the whole cycle will begin again.
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jamesgtfc
September 22, 2021, 8:39am
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Quoted from RonMariner
Someone will step in and buy them. They won’t need to buy the ground, they will rent it. HMRC will do a deal to be paid back over a number of years. The wage bill will be slashed by the administrators to allow them to operate. Rooney, who is on £90k per week will be one of the first to go.

They will most likely end up in L1 but will survive and the whole cycle will begin again.


How can a club at that level pay their manager £4.7m a year?
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RonMariner
September 22, 2021, 8:44am

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Quoted from jamesgtfc


How can a club at that level pay their manager £4.7m a year?


Crazy isn’t it. But then Mel Morris is a multi millionaire. He claims to have lost £200 million on the club. I think some of the players are on silly money too.
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jamesgtfc
September 22, 2021, 8:53am
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Quoted from RonMariner


Crazy isn’t it. But then Mel Morris is a multi millionaire. He claims to have lost £200 million on the club. I think some of the players are on silly money too.


It's not like he's splashing that £4.7m on an established manager either!

It's an absolute mess but there aren't any assets to strip for a new owner. Any lunatic who does take it on is probably just kicking the can down the road and delaying the inevitable.
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September 22, 2021, 9:58am

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Derby will go down of course, hope it doesnt keep Burnsys Love boys across the river up
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RonMariner
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Quoted from jamesgtfc


It's not like he's splashing that £4.7m on an established manager either!

It's an absolute mess but there aren't any assets to strip for a new owner. Any lunatic who does take it on is probably just kicking the can down the road and delaying the inevitable.


I bet he paid Lampard a similar amount too.
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September 22, 2021, 10:26am
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Quoted from ginnywings


Are you saying you queued all night for trainers?

The world's gone mad.  


For some time I’ve thought that Aldi was the sanest one on this forum, but not anymore after that confession about the trainers!! Never heard of anyone doing that before. It’s not like queuing for the last Harry Potter book or a much anticipated LP in the old days, I sort of understood those, but trainers?! What if they didn’t have your size?!! I’d go postal on them if that happened.
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September 22, 2021, 11:19am

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Quoted from Heisenberg


For some time I’ve thought that Aldi was the sanest one on this forum, but not anymore after that confession about the trainers!! Never heard of anyone doing that before. It’s not like queuing for the last Harry Potter book or a much anticipated LP in the old days, I sort of understood those, but trainers?! What if they didn’t have your size?!! I’d go postal on them if that happened.


I often see queues snaking outside of trainer shops in Manchester before work. They even stick bouncers on the door sometimes and have one in/one out systems. I'm told by a younger fella I work with that a lot of them are limited editions which will be sold on for profit. It's a different time.



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Meza
September 22, 2021, 11:39am

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isn't about time someone should start looking into this.  

For me It all starts from the Premier League (100M) compared to the money in the Championship (10M).  The Premier League are never going to part with their money and the way they went about setting up the Prem was similar to the Super League but that was accepted (as it also involved the other Leagues.  I think we should go back to when you can only spend based on attendances, this will stop teams like Salford, etc and other clubs.  Problem with this there will always be an argument based on "you cant tell me how much i can/cannot spend", but it should only be based on players, so if Salford have the money they can improve the infrastructure but the playing side needs to be based on attendances as an example.

Other than giving the EFL & National League more money it never not change.  Who's to say that Sky or BT (probably more BT) might only offer reduced terms so instead of 100M its now only 50M,


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RichMariner
September 22, 2021, 12:28pm
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I think Findlater's replacement at the Telewag knows quite a lot of detail about the state the Championship is in. Pretty sure I read a piece written by him about the damage that PL parachute payments create in that league.

The payments give relegated clubs such a massive advantage that other Championship clubs, like Derby, have to overspend to have half a chance of competing.

Norwich would've ordinarily lost their best players, e.g. Cantwell, when they last got relegated from the Prem, but the parachute payments meant they could afford to keep him on a PL contract and, hey presto, they went straight back up. Same at Watford.

A team like Huddersfield, who coined it in for two seasons, have banked that cash and cut their cloth accordingly. I reckon they're in a very healthy position off the field. It's only a matter of time before teams fall all around them and they'll have their time again.


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DB
September 22, 2021, 2:16pm
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Quoted from RichMariner
I think Findlater's replacement at the Telewag knows quite a lot of detail about the state the Championship is in. Pretty sure I read a piece written by him about the damage that PL parachute payments create in that league.

The payments give relegated clubs such a massive advantage that other Championship clubs, like Derby, have to overspend to have half a chance of competing.

Norwich would've ordinarily lost their best players, e.g. Cantwell, when they last got relegated from the Prem, but the parachute payments meant they could afford to keep him on a PL contract and, hey presto, they went straight back up. Same at Watford.

A team like Huddersfield, who coined it in for two seasons, have banked that cash and cut their cloth accordingly. I reckon they're in a very healthy position off the field. It's only a matter of time before teams fall all around them and they'll have their time again.


He might be a wizz kid on the championship but unfortunately, we're not. He'd better start learning his stuff about the NL, a league whose management changed grants into loans by misleading clubs. A league whose rules state they should not go into the red but ok'd it for covid and punished Dover for staying solvent. A league that the sooner we're out of the better.



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GollyGTFC
September 22, 2021, 3:06pm

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Quoted from RonMariner
Someone will step in and buy them. They won’t need to buy the ground, they will rent it. HMRC will do a deal to be paid back over a number of years. The wage bill will be slashed by the administrators to allow them to operate. Rooney, who is on £90k per week will be one of the first to go.

They will most likely end up in L1 but will survive and the whole cycle will begin again.


The administrator can’t just tear up player and coaching staff contracts. All football debts have to be settled in full.

And Mel Morris has chosen to pull the plug- he has the finances to honour the spending he authorised. He’s just decided to not put another penny in. What makes you think he’s going to be generous over Pride Park?

The big difference with Wigan is that Wigan had assets (Stadium & Training Ground) and their previous owner (the one who forced the guy who then put them into admin into buying the club after a game of roulette) wrote off a huge amount of debt to help them out.

Derby owe huge amounts to the HMRC & other football clubs and have no assets.

When Mel Morris bought Derby they were fairly prudently run & were losing about £1m a season. Within 3 years Mel Morris trebled their wage bill as well as spending huge amounts on transfer fees. Quite incredible losses when you consider they got £20m for Frank Lampard.
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toontown
September 22, 2021, 4:37pm
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Quoted from GollyGTFC


The administrator can’t just tear up player and coaching staff contracts. All football debts have to be settled in full.

And Mel Morris has chosen to pull the plug- he has the finances to honour the spending he authorised. He’s just decided to not put another penny in. What makes you think he’s going to be generous over Pride Park?

The big difference with Wigan is that Wigan had assets (Stadium & Training Ground) and their previous owner (the one who forced the guy who then put them into admin into buying the club after a game of roulette) wrote off a huge amount of debt to help them out.

Derby owe huge amounts to the HMRC & other football clubs and have no assets.

When Mel Morris bought Derby they were fairly prudently run & were losing about £1m a season. Within 3 years Mel Morris trebled their wage bill as well as spending huge amounts on transfer fees. Quite incredible losses when you consider they got £20m for Frank Lampard.


Will any of their players be going cheap then - we need an understudy to Mcatee
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September 22, 2021, 4:42pm

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September 22, 2021, 5:15pm
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Quoted from GollyGTFC


The administrator can’t just tear up player and coaching staff contracts. All football debts have to be settled in full.

And Mel Morris has chosen to pull the plug- he has the finances to honour the spending he authorised. He’s just decided to not put another penny in. What makes you think he’s going to be generous over Pride Park?

The big difference with Wigan is that Wigan had assets (Stadium & Training Ground) and their previous owner (the one who forced the guy who then put them into admin into buying the club after a game of roulette) wrote off a huge amount of debt to help them out.

Derby owe huge amounts to the HMRC & other football clubs and have no assets.

When Mel Morris bought Derby they were fairly prudently run & were losing about £1m a season. Within 3 years Mel Morris trebled their wage bill as well as spending huge amounts on transfer fees. Quite incredible losses when you consider they got £20m for Frank Lampard.


I found it quite interesting that Preston had bought and moved into Wigan's training ground; it almost struck me as a bit parasitic under the circumstances. Then I learned that Wigan had actually nabbed it off Bolton when they first got into financial difficulty; some serious recycling going on there.


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Marinerdan
September 22, 2021, 6:32pm

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Any potential buyer needs to find £50m to pay off HMRC, football creditors and a secured loan.

Presumably Mel Morris will want some of his £200m back too especially as he owns the stadium.

Can’t see many people falling over themselves to buy what is likely to be a loss making League 1 club for somewhere between £50 to £250m. Huge potential but I’m not sure the juice is worth the squeeze.


UTM
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Marinerdan
September 22, 2021, 6:34pm

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Quoted from Poojah


I found it quite interesting that Preston had bought and moved into Wigan's training ground; it almost struck me as a bit parasitic under the circumstances. Then I learned that Wigan had actually nabbed it off Bolton when they first got into financial difficulty; some serious recycling going on there.


Is the training ground built on an ancient Indian burial ground or something?

Maybe they need to get Barry Fry in to pįss in all the corners.


UTM
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RonMariner
September 22, 2021, 10:17pm

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Can the administrator make players redundant and hence terminate them that way?
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GollyGTFC
September 22, 2021, 11:16pm

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Quoted from RonMariner
Can the administrator make players redundant and hence terminate them that way?


No. Football creditors have to be paid in full.
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September 22, 2021, 11:31pm
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Quoted from Marinerdan


Is the training ground built on an ancient Indian burial ground or something?

Maybe they need to get Barry Fry in to pįss in all the corners.


First time Barry Fry was full of p1ss rather than full of…….
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Heisenberg
September 23, 2021, 9:17am
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Quoted from GollyGTFC


No. Football creditors have to be paid in full.


Why? What makes football different to other businesses going into administration? Are you saying that if players are not paid in full, then they face expulsion from the EFL? So it’s the EFL/FA who set that rule? If so, that’s a major problem for Derby, I can imagine.

I suppose football is different to any other industry. When a player signs a contract it is for a set period, and that player needs paying (Danny Rose, and the other cack from last season whose names i genuinely can’t remember!).

What a fascinating situation. Personally I would like someone as big as Derby to ‘do a Rangers’, but so far the only ‘large’ English club to feel pain in recent memory was Portsmouth who went into administration whilst in the EPL. I wonder if this might be the moment that the bubble bursts for some?

Mind you, you can’t ‘do a Rangers’ in England as our non-league set up is so vast, there’s no room for anyone plummeting down the leagues.

I’ll watch this with interest.

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RonMariner
September 23, 2021, 9:20am

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It seems the majority of Rooney’s salary is being paid directly by the club sponsors 32Red.  

So that is probably another dodgy deal to get round regulations.
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KingstonMariner
September 23, 2021, 10:11am
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Quoted from Heisenberg


Why? What makes football different to other businesses going into administration? Are you saying that if players are not paid in full, then they face expulsion from the EFL? So it’s the EFL/FA who set that rule? If so, that’s a major problem for Derby, I can imagine.

I suppose football is different to any other industry. When a player signs a contract it is for a set period, and that player needs paying (Danny Rose, and the other cack from last season whose names i genuinely can’t remember!).

What a fascinating situation. Personally I would like someone as big as Derby to ‘do a Rangers’, but so far the only ‘large’ English club to feel pain in recent memory was Portsmouth who went into administration whilst in the EPL. I wonder if this might be the moment that the bubble bursts for some?

Mind you, you can’t ‘do a Rangers’ in England as our non-league set up is so vast, there’s no room for anyone plummeting down the leagues.

I’ll watch this with interest.



Yes. That’s the case in football. ‘Football creditors’ have to be paid in full. I guess the ultimate penalty is the offending club gets booted out.


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Lincoln Mariner 56
September 23, 2021, 10:22am
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Just watched David Wheater’s interview on Under the Cosh and well worth a watch and particularly interesting how they were not paid for 6 months at Bolton and how poorly players can be treated by their owners referring to his time with Oldham. Not surprisingly Kewell does not escape his criticism.
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[quote=120888]

Why? What makes football different to other businesses going into administration? Are you saying that if players are not paid in full, then they face expulsion from the EFL? So it’s the EFL/FA who set that rule? If so, that’s a major problem for Derby, I can imagine.



My understanding  is that this rule was brought in  to protect other clubs ....ie if Derby  buys a player from Us for a million  then we go buy a replacement from Scunny for 500k  and then Derby go bust dont pay us  we go bust cos we owe  scunny  etc


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jamesgtfc
September 23, 2021, 10:46am
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Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56
Just watched David Wheater’s interview on Under the Cosh and well worth a watch and particularly interesting how they were not paid for 6 months at Bolton and how poorly players can be treated by their owners referring to his time with Oldham. Not surprisingly Kewell does not escape his criticism.


I will make that my next one to watch then. Coke had issues with the Oldham owners so I'm interested to hear what Wheater says about his treatment.

As for football creditors needing to be paid in full, yes that is true but there is nothing stopping the administrators trying the negotiate with creditors. Whether the players agree to be released from their contract for a fraction of they are owed is another story though.

When Portsmouth went into admin, they were still paying for Benjani and others a few years later so it can be done. Be interesting to see what happens with Derby because I can't see anyone with sanity taking them on.
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Manchester Mariner
September 23, 2021, 10:57am

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Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56
Just watched David Wheater’s interview on Under the Cosh and well worth a watch and particularly interesting how they were not paid for 6 months at Bolton and how poorly players can be treated by their owners referring to his time with Oldham. Not surprisingly Kewell does not escape his criticism.


Good episode that, from what I remember he calls Kewell a coward.



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Fillipe Noche
September 23, 2021, 1:41pm
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There’s been much spoken on here about feeling sorry for football supporters at clubs that go into administration. Also much spoken about payment of players wages, and other football creditors, plus things like HMRC.

But do you know what, perhaps the most difficult and most upsetting factor of when a football club goes into administration is the local business community and employees that this affects

Football clubs, even of our size, have many local business suppliers and local trades that have done work for them or supplied services. Often with agreed credit lines. It’s these  local businesses that suffer as a consequence of football clubs going into administration, and people that then discuss the shame related to administration often lose sight of that, or maybe it never dawned upon them. If a football club is sold off as a rescue deal by the administrators, then suppliers are lucky if they ever see 10p - 20p in the £ pound in respect of the money that they are owed.

Jobs and livelihoods become severely at risk in the local community. I recall all those years ago when Leicester City went into administration. Everyone was delighted when they were rescued, but nobody gave a single thought about the ordinary businesses that lost huge amounts of money as creditors that saw practically nothing. There was all sorts of business that were hit by it, including a local florist shop that was owed £6000 and local tradespeople such as electricians and builders, and printers and laundry and security firms etc. It’s really endless the level of hurt and financial hardship that this causes.

It’s happened time and again at various clubs. But the only thing people ever want to think about is the poor old fans because their football team is at risk and at an all time low.

There were occasions when Grimsby Town could have quite easily have gone into administration as an easy way out. But to the credit of the board and John Fenty in particular, there was no way he would allow that to happen, as he could not morally cope with the thought of the widespread financial damage that could do locally to businesses creditors locally. Instead he implemented business acumen and financial clout to keep business going and improve its viability. This should always be remembered

In summary…. See past the football creditors and realise the damage that football clubs going into administration does to its local creditors and dependents.
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ska face
September 23, 2021, 1:48pm

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Who would’ve lost out the most by GTFC going into admin, is it the bloke the club owed £1.5m-£4.5m?

Can anyone remember the name of that person?
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EvilFish
September 23, 2021, 2:22pm
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Quoted from ska face
Who would’ve lost out the most by GTFC going into admin, is it the bloke the club owed £1.5m-£4.5m?

Can anyone remember the name of that person?


Jim Frotting or something, I think...

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kevikov
September 23, 2021, 2:31pm
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Quoted from Fillipe Noche
There’s been much spoken on here about feeling sorry for football supporters at clubs that go into administration. Also much spoken about payment of players wages, and other football creditors, plus things like HMRC.

But do you know what, perhaps the most difficult and most upsetting factor of when a football club goes into administration is the local business community and employees that this affects

Football clubs, even of our size, have many local business suppliers and local trades that have done work for them or supplied services. Often with agreed credit lines. It’s these  local businesses that suffer as a consequence of football clubs going into administration, and people that then discuss the shame related to administration often lose sight of that, or maybe it never dawned upon them. If a football club is sold off as a rescue deal by the administrators, then suppliers are lucky if they ever see 10p - 20p in the £ pound in respect of the money that they are owed.

Jobs and livelihoods become severely at risk in the local community. I recall all those years ago when Leicester City went into administration. Everyone was delighted when they were rescued, but nobody gave a single thought about the ordinary businesses that lost huge amounts of money as creditors that saw practically nothing. There was all sorts of business that were hit by it, including a local florist shop that was owed £6000 and local tradespeople such as electricians and builders, and printers and laundry and security firms etc. It’s really endless the level of hurt and financial hardship that this causes.

It’s happened time and again at various clubs. But the only thing people ever want to think about is the poor old fans because their football team is at risk and at an all time low.

There were occasions when Grimsby Town could have quite easily have gone into administration as an easy way out. But to the credit of the board and John Fenty in particular, there was no way he would allow that to happen, as he could not morally cope with the thought of the widespread financial damage that could do locally to businesses creditors locally. Instead he implemented business acumen and financial clout to keep business going and improve its viability. This should always be remembered

In summary…. See past the football creditors and realise the damage that football clubs going into administration does to its local creditors and dependents.


Whilst I agree that stopping the club going into admin ensured local business creditors didn’t get stung with big financial losses, whenever someone states this as some kind of heavenly intent on behalf of the former custodian. The fact that we nearly went into admin numerous times were actually his own fault due to urine poor management and decision making is always omitted. Why?


I was there, the day Bradley Wood scored a 35 yarder!

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jamesgtfc
September 23, 2021, 2:33pm
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Quoted from Fillipe Noche
There’s been much spoken on here about feeling sorry for football supporters at clubs that go into administration. Also much spoken about payment of players wages, and other football creditors, plus things like HMRC.

But do you know what, perhaps the most difficult and most upsetting factor of when a football club goes into administration is the local business community and employees that this affects

Football clubs, even of our size, have many local business suppliers and local trades that have done work for them or supplied services. Often with agreed credit lines. It’s these  local businesses that suffer as a consequence of football clubs going into administration, and people that then discuss the shame related to administration often lose sight of that, or maybe it never dawned upon them. If a football club is sold off as a rescue deal by the administrators, then suppliers are lucky if they ever see 10p - 20p in the £ pound in respect of the money that they are owed.

Jobs and livelihoods become severely at risk in the local community. I recall all those years ago when Leicester City went into administration. Everyone was delighted when they were rescued, but nobody gave a single thought about the ordinary businesses that lost huge amounts of money as creditors that saw practically nothing. There was all sorts of business that were hit by it, including a local florist shop that was owed £6000 and local tradespeople such as electricians and builders, and printers and laundry and security firms etc. It’s really endless the level of hurt and financial hardship that this causes.

It’s happened time and again at various clubs. But the only thing people ever want to think about is the poor old fans because their football team is at risk and at an all time low.

There were occasions when Grimsby Town could have quite easily have gone into administration as an easy way out. But to the credit of the board and John Fenty in particular, there was no way he would allow that to happen, as he could not morally cope with the thought of the widespread financial damage that could do locally to businesses creditors locally. Instead he implemented business acumen and financial clout to keep business going and improve its viability. This should always be remembered

In summary…. See past the football creditors and realise the damage that football clubs going into administration does to its local creditors and dependents.


I told myself that for years but it seems more likely that the reason he would never allow Grimsby Town to enter administration was actually because he would lose a lot of money doing so.

Other than that I agree with you. Any business going into administration has a huge impact elsewhere in the supply chain.
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RichMariner
September 23, 2021, 2:37pm
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Quoted from Fillipe Noche
John Fenty in particular, there was no way he would allow that to happen, as he could not morally cope with the thought of the widespread financial damage that could do locally to businesses creditors locally.


This is hilarious, it's difficult to know where to begin!

Fenty was the person who stood to lose the most by a country mile if GTFC went into administration. He wasn't thinking about the local community; he was thinking about his own pockets.

You say he couldn't morally cope with the thought of causing financial damage to local businesses but he got into bed with Alex May who hoodwinked loads of people through criminal activity and caused untold financial and emotional damage. Strange standards he holds.


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forza ivano
September 23, 2021, 2:40pm

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i will say one thing for Filipe - he's  a trier

another example from him as to why JSF is well on the way to beatification - Saint John of Grimsby
we don't realise how much we miss him, his business acumen and his unceasing saintliness
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jamesgtfc
September 23, 2021, 2:47pm
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Quoted from forza ivano
i will say one thing for Filipe - he's  a trier

another example from him as to why JSF is well on the way to beatification - Saint John of Grimsby
we don't realise how much we miss him, his business acumen and his unceasing saintliness


I'm just glad he's finally having to pay more tax like the rest of us.

For a man with such a high moral compass, he (FSF Dormant Ltd to be precise) made an offer to HMRC which was accepted so that implies he still isn't quite paying the tax that he should have been.
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Fillipe Noche
September 23, 2021, 4:09pm
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People suggesting that JF would have lost a lot of money had he have let it go into administration need to understand a lot more about the timeline of events before making ludicrous statements

His initial shareholding was minimal in money terms at the time that he came into the business, at a time when many others would have welcome administration as a cop out.

At that stage he could have let it go into administration with not much exposure or hurt to himself, could have crapped all over the local creditors, and could then have picked up a relatively debt free football business once the administrators had done what they needed to do, for practically nothing, without having to then throw money at it by way of loans etc. It’s what’s commonly known in business as a pre-pack arrangement.

But he didn’t

Go on, go and do your worst and go and look at the debt v investment ratios at the time when it would have been easy for him to force administration

Deny it all you like and avoid the reality of the matter, but it was and is the truth
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exiledmeggie
September 23, 2021, 4:26pm
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Quoted from forza ivano
i will say one thing for Filipe - he's  a trier

another example from him as to why JSF is well on the way to beatification - Saint John of Grimsby
we don't realise how much we miss him, his business acumen and his unceasing saintliness


With a remark like that, I am going to get that season ticket I found back off him!


Living in Exile since 1980, but still have Black and White blood!
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GollyGTFC
September 23, 2021, 4:58pm

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The reason JF never considered putting GTFC into admin was because he’d have lost 75% of his “benign” loans and his shares overnight.

Football creditors and the HMRC have to be repaid in full. All other football creditors have to be repaid 25% within 2 years or the club get deducted a further 15 points. In the past week or so Bolton have taken a commercial loan to pay off their creditors as they were days away from a 15 point deduction.

If anyone is interested in Derby’s precarious financial position you can listen to today’s episode of the Price of Football podcast. It is really looking bleak for Derby. Someone buying the club will have to pay off debts of around £50m & meet on going losses whilst facing a massive drop in revenue from dropping to League 1 & having no assets.

They really are looking doomed for liquidation unless there’s a mega rich buyer out there. But if there was such a prospective owner why would they buy Derby when he/she could buy another Championship club (with assets) and use that £50m to invest in the future rather than paying off historic debts?

Oh, but the good news is Mel Morris still wants to put a retractable roof on Pride Park to help hosts concerts all year around.
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exiledmeggie
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So it would be easy if JF had put Grimsby into administration! Had it done that while in the conference, then it would not had been a 12 point deduction, but expulsion from the league. If that had happened, I’m afraid, Grimsby would be playing in the premier league, but unlike Leicester, it would be the Northern Premier League!

It may had been better if this happened? A fan based club!


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RichMariner
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Quoted from Fillipe Noche
People suggesting that JF would have lost a lot of money had he have let it go into administration need to understand a lot more about the timeline of events before making ludicrous statements

His initial shareholding was minimal in money terms at the time that he came into the business, at a time when many others would have welcome administration as a cop out.

At that stage he could have let it go into administration with not much exposure or hurt to himself, could have crapped all over the local creditors, and could then have picked up a relatively debt free football business once the administrators had done what they needed to do, for practically nothing, without having to then throw money at it by way of loans etc. It’s what’s commonly known in business as a pre-pack arrangement.

But he didn’t

Go on, go and do your worst and go and look at the debt v investment ratios at the time when it would have been easy for him to force administration

Deny it all you like and avoid the reality of the matter, but it was and is the truth


I feel sorry for you Noche, I really do!


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RonMariner
September 23, 2021, 7:34pm

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Regarding Leicester, didn’t the developers who built the Walkers Stadium end up writing off £30 million due to the administration?
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RonMariner
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If Fenty is so moral, he will no doubt give the trust the £200k he received in respect of the shares the Trust gifted him.  
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jamesgtfc
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Quoted from RonMariner
If Fenty is so moral, he will no doubt give the trust the £200k he received in respect of the shares the Trust gifted him.  


He said he was prepared to answer any questions we had the other day. I had a look earlier but he hasn't answered them yet.

I assume he only drinks Merlot at weekends so we might get an answer then when he's plucked up some Dutch courage.
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exiledmeggie
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Quoted from RonMariner
Regarding Leicester, didn’t the developers who built the Walkers Stadium end up writing off £30 million due to the administration?


We were in the same division when the itv digital debacle happened. They entered administration in October 2002. If we’d done the same? JF not on the board then? But because of that, ended up back on the board soon afterwards?

Though miraculously they cheated their way to the premiership afterwards!


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Meza
September 23, 2021, 7:45pm

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I think Fillipe is talking about the ITV collapse i'm guessing its then that JF could have gone into admin (not sure what his benign loans were at that time).


[URL=https://imgur.com/VCxdH2Y][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/VCxdH2Ys.jpg[/IMG][/URL][URL=https://imgur.com/uMRVvRe][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/uMRVvRes.jpg[/IMG][/URL][URL=https://imgur.com/5p7nllT][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/5p7nllTs.jpg[/IMG][/URL][URL=https://imgur.com/46BEw5M][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/46BEw5Ms.jpg[/IMG][/URL][URL=https://imgur.com/06NXnQF][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/06NXnQFs.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

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Quoted from Meza
I think Fillipe is talking about the ITV collapse i'm guessing its then that JF could have gone into admin (not sure what his benign loans were at that time).


To me that was the end of Grimsby. By the actions at the time of the itv digital collapse stopped any real funding coming into Grimsby and all we had was sticking plasters unto May 2021. Whatever the faults, to be fair they’re all on JF, but no one else until last year came forward with any pan to take the club further.

That is twenty years of missed opportunity?


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jamesgtfc
September 23, 2021, 8:17pm
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Quoted from exiledmeggie


To me that was the end of Grimsby. By the actions at the time of the itv digital collapse stopped any real funding coming into Grimsby and all we had was sticking plasters unto May 2021. Whatever the faults, to be fair they’re all on JF, but no one else until last year came forward with any pan to take the club further.

That is twenty years of missed opportunity?


A few people came forward but there was a common theme, working with John Fenty was impossible.

We then come to the terms of his not so benign loan and it's no wonder we had to endure 18 years of him.
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exiledmeggie
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Quoted from jamesgtfc


A few people came forward but there was a common theme, working with John Fenty was impossible.

We then come to the terms of his not so benign loan and it's no wonder we had to endure 18 years of him.


And I suppose you agree that after itv digital debacle, no one came forward to support the club. We were left with the sticking plaster of a local. Whatever the faults of the past, we did not enter administration. But it left the club at the bottom.


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jamesgtfc
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Quoted from exiledmeggie


And I suppose you agree that after itv digital debacle, no one came forward to support the club. We were left with the sticking plaster of a local. Whatever the faults of the past, we did not enter administration. But it left the club at the bottom.


This club has never entered administration because the people in power at the time would have lost more than anybody else.

Administration also has a detrimental impact on the small business supplying the football club but Fenty proved he doesn't give a damn about the community when he got his convicted criminal of a best mate to have a discussion with the council about regeneration.
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exiledmeggie
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Quoted from jamesgtfc


This club has never entered administration because the people in power at the time would have lost more than anybody else.

Administration also has a detrimental impact on the small business supplying the football club but Fenty proved he doesn't give a damn about the community when he got his convicted criminal of a best mate to have a discussion with the council about regeneration.


Good points. Not going into administration has created the footings we have now. But apart from the mortgage broker who was bent, no one encamped forward to put money into the club. Only those that could lo@n money we’re around..

That now is the past.

What fir the future?


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KingstonMariner
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Quoted from exiledmeggie


Good points. Not going into administration has created the footings we have now. But apart from the mortgage broker who was bent, no one encamped forward to put money into the club. Only those that could lo@n money we’re around..

That now is the past.

What fir the future?


What about Mike Parker? He actually bought shares rather than lent the money like Fenty did.


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TheRealJohnLewis
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Quoted from exiledmeggie


And I suppose you agree that after itv digital debacle, no one came forward to support the club. We were left with the sticking plaster of a local. Whatever the faults of the past, we did not enter administration. But it left the club at the bottom.


We will never know if anyone else would have come forward. JF was the first to put his money in, so no other interested parties would have come forward knowing that the club had changed hands. If JF didn't come forward then we could have had the best chairman in the world and be playing the champions league. We could have gone down the same route as Bury and Macc. We will never know how it could have panned out, all we do know is that what we did get was proper MF, who was only looking for a football fortune and to line his own pockets.

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ska face
September 24, 2021, 8:56am

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Think we were told at least two separate groups had come in to buy the club, but the previous custodians didn’t fancy what was on the table. I think one of them ended up buying Wycombe?

Given what’s emerged in recent months, you have to wonder what it was that caused negotiations to collapse. The insistence on siphoning future transfer fees? Wanting millions paid up in full to the detriment of the football club?

Who knows just how many chances we had to get rid of the worst - literally, the WORST - custodian who has ever sat in the chair, but were knocked back for personal or financial reasons.

Nevermind eh.
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GollyGTFC
December 2, 2021, 5:07pm

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I see the Daily Mail (and others) are reporting Derby are on the brink of liquidation unless the HMRC write off approximately £20m owed to them. That clearly cannot happen. It would set a hugely dangerous precedent within football.
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HistonMariner
December 2, 2021, 6:05pm
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If true I would assume they would be expelled from the league leaving 91 clubs………
      ………only one way to fill the gap - top 2 in our league plus 1 via the play-offs.


Yo Ho Ho.
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aldi_01
December 2, 2021, 6:32pm

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Quoted from GollyGTFC
I see the Daily Mail (and others) are reporting Derby are on the brink of liquidation unless the HMRC write off approximately £20m owed to them. That clearly cannot happen. It would set a hugely dangerous precedent within football.


You’d think but then again nothing would surprise me in a year or two when billions has been siphoned in to the pockets of chums of ministers…


'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
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IlkleyMariner
December 2, 2021, 9:42pm
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If they are liquidated be sure it’s one down and two up

No get out of jail card here
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jamesgtfc
December 3, 2021, 8:55am
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Quoted from HistonMariner
If true I would assume they would be expelled from the league leaving 91 clubs………
      ………only one way to fill the gap - top 2 in our league plus 1 via the play-offs.


Yo Ho Ho.


Unfortunately it will be one less relegation from every league. The pyramid seems to favour rewarding failure.
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The Yard Dog
December 3, 2021, 4:01pm
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Quoted from IlkleyMariner
Not covid
Just irresponsible financial management bordering on the illegal.


Along with all these clubs that have cheated and avoided paying creditors, how many businesses have been affected by irresponsible football clubs.

In 2000, ITV Digital bought the broadcasting rights to Football League and League Cup matches in a three-year, £315m deal.[citation needed] In March 2002, the company went bankrupt owing the League £180 million which it said it "cannot afford to pay".[4] Because of this, many Football League clubs had financial problems and entered administration.[5][6]

Before the implementation of a points deduction it was perceived that clubs had "manipulated and abused [administration] as a way of shedding debts then restructuring, and borrowing again once the hapless creditors had been fobbed off with their 8p in the pound".[2] In September 2003, it was proposed that clubs entering administration would be docked 10 points. A 'fit and proper persons' test was also introduced in an attempt to prevent fraudulent activities. If a person was previously director at a club which was in "administration twice during a five-year period" or at "two different clubs that have each gone into administration in a five-year period" then they would be prevented from becoming the controlling shareholder of a Football League club.[7] A 'fit and proper persons' test was also introduced for directors of Premier League clubs.[8] In November 2009, Stephen Vaughan, Sr. became the first director to fail the 'fit and proper persons' test.[9]

To ease financial problems for clubs that had been relegated, "parachute payments" were introduced to give time to adapt to the financial gulf between divisions.[10] The deductions of 10 points in the Football League and 9 points in the Premier League were ratified in 2004, with the rule in place from the start of the 2004–05 season.[11][12] The League also adopted rules that prevented any side from being in administration for either two successive seasons or eighteen consecutive months.[13] The reason for the deduction being a point less in the Premier League was that the teams play eight fewer fixtures than Football League clubs.[12] The first club to incur this new penalty were League One side Wrexham F.C. who entered administration on 3 December 2004.[13]

Leeds United filed for administration with only a few days remaining in the 2006–07 season, which automatically triggered a 10-point penalty. This placed Leeds at the bottom of the table and relegated the club, but they were extremely likely to have been relegated anyway. By entering administration during the 2006–07 season, they hoped to avoid starting the 2007–08 season on −10 points. The following week, Boston United entered administration in the final minutes of a defeat to Wrexham which ensured they were relegated to the Football Conference, meaning they likewise avoided starting the following season on -10 points (though they would find themselves being double-relegated to the Conference North for unrelated reasons).[14] The Football League saw both cases as clubs trying to exploit a loophole, and changed the rules. From 2007–08, any club entering administration after the fourth Thursday in March would have their 10-point deduction suspended until the following season. If the club is relegated the points will be deducted from their tally at the start of next season. If the club stays up the 10 points will be taken off their final total. [15]

On 26 February 2010, Portsmouth became the first Premier League club to enter administration.[16]
Football creditors rule

In a situation of insolvency, the "football creditors rule" means that debts to other clubs or players are prioritised and must be paid in full before the club is eligible to compete again in the league.[17] The Enterprise Act 2002 made reforms to the insolvency act and, from 15 September 2003, the altered procedures for administration were implemented.[18] Most notably it abolished the Crown's preferential right to recover unpaid taxes ahead of other creditors.[19] As such, HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) is now often not paid in full (between 2003 and 2010, outstanding unpaid taxes to the HMRC amounted to £30 million).[20] This legality of the football creditors rule was challenged in 2004 in Inland Revenue Commissioners v The Wimbledon Football Club Ltd. However, it was found that "full payment to football creditors (out of third party funds) ahead of preferential creditors did not infringe the provisions of section s4(4)(a) of the Act" and "differential treatment may be necessary to secure the continuation of the company's business and may be regarded as supportable".[21]

In 2011 HMRC brought another challenge to the football creditors rule in the High Court, this time on the basis that it breached fundamental principles of insolvency law, including the pari passu rule that all unsecured creditors should be paid on a proportionate basis. However, in May 2012 the court rejected the challenge as it found that the rule was not a deliberate evasion of insolvency law.[22]

List of clubs in England and Wales that have entered administration or CVA

Bradford City, Charlton Athletic, Middlesborough, Tranmere Rovers, Newport County, Walsall, Northampton Town, Kettering Town, Aldershot, Maidstone United, Hartlepool United, Barnet, Exeter City, Gillingham, Doncaster Rovers, Millwall, Bournemouth, Crystal Palace, Chester City,  
Portsmouth, Hull City, Queens Park Rangers, Bury, Halifax Town, Bradford City, Notts County, Barnsley, Leicester City, Port Vale, York City, Derby County, Ipswich Town, Wimbledon, Darlington, Bradford City, Wrexham, Cambridge United, Rotherham United, Crawley Town, Boston United, Leeds United, Luton Town −10 pts −20 pts, Bournemouth  −10 pts −17 pts, Rotherham United (Old company dissolved) −10 pts, −17 pts, Halifax Town −10 pts, Darlington −10 pts, Southampton −10 pts, Stockport County −10 pts, Chester City Dissolved −25 pts, Northwich Victoria −10 pts, Farsley Celtic Dissolved −10 pts, Salisbury City −10 pts, Weymouth None, Crystal Palace −10 pts, Portsmouth −9 pts, Plymouth Argyle −10 pts, Rushden and Diamonds Dissolved None, Darlington Dissolved     −10 pts, Portsmouth −10 pts, Port Vale −10 pts, Coventry City (Old company dissolved) −10 pts −10 pts, Aldershot Town -10 pts,  Bolton Wanderers (Old company in liquidation) −12 pts,  
Bury new CVA sought −12 pts, Rhyl Dissolved None, Wigan Athletic (Old company in liquidation) −12 pts, Bury N/A, Derby County −12 pts.

I thought that Leicester and Swindon had entetred into adminstration
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supertown
December 3, 2021, 4:06pm
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Leicester are on the list
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GollyGTFC
January 21, 2022, 9:19am

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Things are getting very serious at Derby County. A lot of mud being thrown around, especially by the administrators. Possibly less than 2 weeks away from liquidation.
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pen penfras
January 21, 2022, 9:22am

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Quoted from GollyGTFC
Things are getting very serious at Derby County. A lot of mud being thrown around, especially by the administrators. Possibly less than 2 weeks away from liquidation.


Middlesbrough and Wycombe are holding it up by wanting compensation for missing out on play offs and getting relegated at the expense of Derby. Seems pretty futile to me. Although there is some precedent in Sheff Utd getting paid off by West Ham after they broke the rules with Tevez and Mascherano signings. It was settled out of court though, so not sure a court is going to rule in favour when they've already been punished by the league.
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ska face
January 21, 2022, 9:27am

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I hope they get liquidated. None of their fans shed a tear for anyone else when they were swizzing their way through the season with bent stadium and sponsorship deals. If they’d gone up under Lampard they’d be in the Prem and would effectively be untouchable, as they knew, sooooo fúck em!
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GollyGTFC
January 21, 2022, 9:35am

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Quoted from pen penfras


Middlesbrough and Wycombe are holding it up by wanting compensation for missing out on play offs and getting relegated at the expense of Derby. Seems pretty futile to me. Although there is some precedent in Sheff Utd getting paid off by West Ham after they broke the rules with Tevez and Mascherano signings. It was settled out of court though, so not sure a court is going to rule in favour when they've already been punished by the league.


Wycombe’s case is spot on. Derby deliberately held back publishing their revised accounts to after this season started to avoid being put in League 1 this season. The EFL published an interchangeable fixture list for that reason and Derby played the system (again).

And don’t believe the rubbish that this is the issue. A new owner will have to pay off around £50-60 in debt within 2 years with the club probably in L1 next season with the club owning no assets (Mel Morris owns Pride Park and the training ground). Add on to that the new owner will have to fund on going losses from the day they bought the club.

Who on earth is going to buy them? That Turkish bloke bought Hull City for around £30m. Why would someone buy Derby when you can get a solvent club for half the price?

Unless Mel Morris puts the company that owns Pride Park and the training ground into administration Derby County are doomed. If he did that the administrator could package them with the club and give a new owner some assets to go with basically just buying the name Derby County. Doing that would make the club a viable business in the longer term.
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Mayaman
January 21, 2022, 9:37am
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Quoted from Poojah


I found it quite interesting that Preston had bought and moved into Wigan's training ground; it almost struck me as a bit parasitic under the circumstances. Then I learned that Wigan had actually nabbed it off Bolton when they first got into financial difficulty; some serious recycling going on there.


or a helping hand if it kept them afloat.
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GollyGTFC
January 21, 2022, 9:58am

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Quoted from ska face
Think we were told at least two separate groups had come in to buy the club, but the previous custodians didn’t fancy what was on the table. I think one of them ended up buying Wycombe?

Given what’s emerged in recent months, you have to wonder what it was that caused negotiations to collapse. The insistence on siphoning future transfer fees? Wanting millions paid up in full to the detriment of the football club?

Who knows just how many chances we had to get rid of the worst - literally, the WORST - custodian who has ever sat in the chair, but were knocked back for personal or financial reasons.

Nevermind eh.


Rob Couhig (now Wycombe owner) did come and have a look around the club but didn’t fancy it due to the state of the place and terms of sale- I believe he’s been generous since and said it was purely geography that put him off.

Mark Palmer was acting as his advisor and he was then used initially by 1878 when they were putting together their takeover (both with Shutes and then without him).
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GollyGTFC
January 21, 2022, 10:03am

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Quoted from ska face
I hope they get liquidated. None of their fans shed a tear for anyone else when they were swizzing their way through the season with bent stadium and sponsorship deals. If they’d gone up under Lampard they’d be in the Prem and would effectively be untouchable, as they knew, sooooo fúck em!


I sort of hope they do to. Not for any nasty reasons, but the bending of rules that is required both within football and outside (HMRC) would set a dangerous precedent that would be exploited as everyone would say “well you did it for Derby County…”

Derby could well be coming to North East Lincs next season to face Cleethorpes Town in the Northern Premier League Division 1 East. I don’t see how a reformed club could be admitted any higher than that.
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jamesgtfc
January 21, 2022, 10:17am
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Quoted from GollyGTFC
Derby could well be coming to North East Lincs next season to face Cleethorpes Town in the Northern Premier League Division 1 East. I don’t see how a reformed club could be admitted any higher than that.


Clubs like Bury, Macclesfield, North Ferriby etc have all had to start from Counties level.
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GollyGTFC
January 21, 2022, 11:09am

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Quoted from jamesgtfc


Clubs like Bury, Macclesfield, North Ferriby etc have all had to start from Counties level.


Bury FC still exist and have just been sold. Bury AFC was/is a different club.

Both Chester FC & FC Halifax Town were placed at Level 8/Tier 4.
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pen penfras
January 21, 2022, 11:39am

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Quoted from GollyGTFC


Wycombe’s case is spot on. Derby deliberately held back publishing their revised accounts to after this season started to avoid being put in League 1 this season. The EFL published an interchangeable fixture list for that reason and Derby played the system (again).

And don’t believe the rubbish that this is the issue. A new owner will have to pay off around £50-60 in debt within 2 years with the club probably in L1 next season with the club owning no assets (Mel Morris owns Pride Park and the training ground). Add on to that the new owner will have to fund on going losses from the day they bought the club.

Who on earth is going to buy them? That Turkish bloke bought Hull City for around £30m. Why would someone buy Derby when you can get a solvent club for half the price?

Unless Mel Morris puts the company that owns Pride Park and the training ground into administration Derby County are doomed. If he did that the administrator could package them with the club and give a new owner some assets to go with basically just buying the name Derby County. Doing that would make the club a viable business in the longer term.


The administrators are dealing with the ground too. They want to package it into one thing but said they'll split it if there's no option.
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Heisenberg
January 21, 2022, 11:57am
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Quoted from jamesgtfc


Clubs like Bury, Macclesfield, North Ferriby etc have all had to start from Counties level.


BUT the National League has just 23 teams. AFC Derby would slot in there quite easily.
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GollyGTFC
January 21, 2022, 12:09pm

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Quoted from pen penfras


The administrators are dealing with the ground too. They want to package it into one thing but said they'll split it if there's no option.


How? Mel Morris owns it.
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pen penfras
January 21, 2022, 12:13pm

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Quoted from GollyGTFC


How? Mel Morris owns it.


He must have put both companies into administration. It was in a statement from them and definitely mentioned that they're separate entities
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GollyGTFC
January 21, 2022, 3:12pm

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Quoted from pen penfras


He must have put both companies into administration. It was in a statement from them and definitely mentioned that they're separate entities


No, Mel Morris has just assured the administrators that he will give the first option to buy Pride Park to any preferred bidder named by them.

What if Mel Morris asks for the same amount he paid DCFC for Pride Park? £80m wasn’t it?
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Civvy at last
January 21, 2022, 3:22pm

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Derby has better hope that the estimated £150 million that Morris has reputedly lost isn’t just ‘benign loans’ !!
They’d struggle to pay that off within 3 seasons non-league.


The wife was going away for a girly weekend.
I jokingly remarked  'I don't know whether to spend it watching porn or watching football'
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She said 'Well you already know how to play football'  
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January 21, 2022, 5:33pm

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Heisenberg
January 21, 2022, 6:04pm
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Quoted from ginnywings


I think this bid will collapse. The yanks will want that stadium, for starters.

It’s horrible for their fans, but for the good of the game I hope they are liquidated, THEN football as a whole, particularly in The Championship, might wake up from the current mess it denies it’s in.
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January 21, 2022, 10:00pm

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Quoted from Heisenberg


I think this bid will collapse. The yanks will want that stadium, for starters.

It’s horrible for their fans, but for the good of the game I hope they are liquidated, THEN football as a whole, particularly in The Championship, might wake up from the current mess it denies it’s in.


It’s tough one, as a fan I’d be broken if my club went to the wall, as will derby fans. There’s also an alternative view that when derby were clearly over spending and chasing a dream that never materialised again, they were still happy and not asking any questions. I’m sure some were but I’d imagine they were the minority.

Personally, I think they should go, they deserve any punishment headed their way and excrement as it might be, it could, albeit too late, restore some credibility to the game…


'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
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horsforthmariner
January 21, 2022, 10:25pm
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I've got a friend who is a Derby fan, for this reason I hope they go under.
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January 22, 2022, 7:21am
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Quoted from Nelly GTFC
I think you're right, I'm not 100% sure, but I now seem to recall they didn't have a fixture that day?

I think the sensible thing to say is the majority of fans from clubs are decent people, and only a minority of idiots from clubs are trouble.  I wonder how many Port Vale thugs went on the riot here the other year, Mansfield tried to cause a lot of trouble down Grimsby Road the other year as well.


The Derby "fans" at Alfreton were on banning orders which according to police at the time didn't filter down to non-league.


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Poojah
January 22, 2022, 9:07am
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Quoted from aldi_01


It’s tough one, as a fan I’d be broken if my club went to the wall, as will derby fans. There’s also an alternative view that when derby were clearly over spending and chasing a dream that never materialised again, they were still happy and not asking any questions. I’m sure some were but I’d imagine they were the minority.

Personally, I think they should go, they deserve any punishment headed their way and excrement as it might be, it could, albeit too late, restore some credibility to the game…


I always think it’s harsh to hit the fans over the head with hindsight. Your average fan isn’t going to be skilled in or inclined to forensically investigate the club’s ongoing finances, and for the most part clubs will exude a “nothing to see here, folks” attitude - they simply deny there is anything to worry about until such a time it can no longer be denied.

The ones who do ask questions, what are they meant to do? Boycotts, protests and keyboard warrior-ing rarely do much to enact serious change.

If Derby fans are at fault for their predicament, then so are Town fans for what has happened to this club over the last 20 years. Of course, I don’t feel that’s the case for a millisecond - 99.9% of the fault lays squarely with the owners in cases like this.

I find it hard to see it from any other perspective than the Derby fans’ perspective. If the club goes under, it’s a tragic day for them and their city. I can’t bring myself to wish the death of their club on them, be it for the greater good or not.


A smooth sea never made a skillful mariner.
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GollyGTFC
January 22, 2022, 9:35am

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Quoted from Poojah


I always think it’s harsh to hit the fans over the head with hindsight. Your average fan isn’t going to be skilled in or inclined to forensically investigate the club’s ongoing finances, and for the most part clubs will exude a “nothing to see here, folks” attitude - they simply deny there is anything to worry about until such a time it can no longer be denied.

The ones who do ask questions, what are they meant to do? Boycotts, protests and keyboard warrior-ing rarely do much to enact serious change.

If Derby fans are at fault for their predicament, then so are Town fans for what has happened to this club over the last 20 years. Of course, I don’t feel that’s the case for a millisecond - 99.9% of the fault lays squarely with the owners in cases like this.

I find it hard to see it from any other perspective than the Derby fans’ perspective. If the club goes under, it’s a tragic day for them and their city. I can’t bring myself to wish the death of their club on them, be it for the greater good or not.


The club wouldn’t die though would they? Like Rangers in Scotland, they’ll just have to restart at the bottom. While I appreciate that is a few tiers lower than Rangers reformed in Scotland it would set a dangerous precedent if rules are bent or totally ignored.

It would setup English football for another Leicester City: For those who don’t remember or are too young, they went into administration in 2002, didn’t pay any of their creditors (including the company who built their new stadium) and kept Muzzy Izzet on £40,000 a week and got promoted straight back up to the Premier League.

The insolvency rules need tightening, not relaxing.
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Swansea_Mariner
January 22, 2022, 10:25am
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Totally agree with that Golly these clubs never really die they just start over several levels down the pyramid. Wycombe have a right to be fuming they've worked within the rules and paid a heavy price for another teams ignorance of those rules.

MPs piling in on the EFL here is diverting responsibility from those who have made the transgressions. It's not the fans fault, and it's a difficult one for them to stomach, but they are a pretty big ub and would make their way back through the pyramid soon enough.
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TownSNAFU5
January 22, 2022, 10:27am
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Whatever happens, the club have fallen a long way from the days of Brian Clough and a European Cup semi-final.  Any club can fail if badly-managed for long enough.  No matter how big the club or fancy their stadium is.

I do feel sorry for the fans though.
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GollyGTFC
January 22, 2022, 12:23pm

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Quoted from Swansea_Mariner
Totally agree with that Golly these clubs never really die they just start over several levels down the pyramid. Wycombe have a right to be fuming they've worked within the rules and paid a heavy price for another teams ignorance of those rules.

MPs piling in on the EFL here is diverting responsibility from those who have made the transgressions. It's not the fans fault, and it's a difficult one for them to stomach, but they are a pretty big ub and would make their way back through the pyramid soon enough.


The only thing I’d disagree with is you saying “ignorance of those rules”. Mel Morris knew the rules and deliberately ignored them.
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aldi_01
January 22, 2022, 12:29pm

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I don’t think it’s ignoring or ignorance, just arrogance and ‘the rules don’t apply to me’ mentality…


'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
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jamesgtfc
January 22, 2022, 12:56pm
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I feel for the fans of any club that goes under. It's alright for us to sit here blaming the fans for not calling the club out when they were spending beyond their means yet there are people on here criticising our board for not finding £250k for a striker.

Whilst I feel for the fans, a big club (and maybe a couple more) do need to go pop and suffer the consequences because it will just continue to get worse otherwise.
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aldi_01
January 22, 2022, 1:36pm

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It’s always a funny one for me. Yes, I can empathise with fans and get why they’d be upset and distraught if their club went pop…equally, I’m aware, that in truth, nobody really cares other than the fans of that club.

Think of the clubs that went pop, as an outsider it was sad but did we really care? Probably not. If fans really wanted to have an impact they’d unite, there’d be mass protests, there’d be a constant stream of stuff to pressure leagues and the FA in to doing something about it but in reality, that won’t happen…


'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
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mimma
January 22, 2022, 1:46pm
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The whole thing is a mess. There are bidders willing to take it on at the last minute at a knockdown price, but it doesn't include the stadium. Morris owns the stadium, not the club, so they are buying a club that doesn't own their own stadium. Anyone with half a brain would leave well alone.
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golfer
January 22, 2022, 1:46pm
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Stop all clubs from borrowing money - make them live within their means - we have to.
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GibMariner
January 22, 2022, 2:35pm
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Quoted from golfer
Stop all clubs from borrowing money - make them live within their means - we have to.


You would think not with our new rich owners, particularly in their early years.

Why would they takeover to just do the same as the last miserable owner “living within our means”
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RonMariner
January 22, 2022, 6:20pm

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I don't think they will be liquidated.  Someone with serious  money will turn up and stump up the dosh.  In fact, given their recent form, it's possible they may not even get relegated.

Clubs of this size just don't die no matter what they do. It's the smaller clubs that go to the wall. It's  not a Bury or Rushden and Diamonds situation.    
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malkamalka
January 22, 2022, 7:14pm
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Quoted from mimma
The whole thing is a mess. There are bidders willing to take it on at the last minute at a knockdown price, but it doesn't include the stadium. Morris owns the stadium, not the club, so they are buying a club that doesn't own their own stadium. Anyone with half a brain would leave well alone.


According to what's in the media, Mike Ashley is negotiating to buy the stadium off Morris. His (Ashley's) bid is dependant on getting the ground as well, but separate to buying the club.



"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens." (Jimi Hendrix)
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GollyGTFC
January 22, 2022, 7:37pm

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Quoted from RonMariner
I don't think they will be liquidated.  Someone with serious  money will turn up and stump up the dosh.  In fact, given their recent form, it's possible they may not even get relegated.

Clubs of this size just don't die no matter what they do. It's the smaller clubs that go to the wall. It's  not a Bury or Rushden and Diamonds situation.    


You say that, but realistically every Championship club is up for sale. Why buy Derby for £1 and have to spend £130m+ settling debts, covering on going losses and buying Pride Park & the training ground when you can buy a club like Hull for £30m? Burnley (an established Premier League club that make a profit every year only sold for around £120m last year.

You could pick up Cardiff, Swansea, Blackburn, Coventry etc… for a fraction of the cost of buying Derby.

And realistically you’re buying Derby as a League 1 club for that. You’d have to be mental.
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realist
January 23, 2022, 4:46am
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I would be sad to see Derby go. I worked down there for a few months, I found the fans welcoming and friendly. The pubs had a great atmosphere too. even though it was a newish ground an old type of atmosphere remained.
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RonMariner
January 23, 2022, 6:01pm

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Quoted from GollyGTFC


You say that, but realistically every Championship club is up for sale. Why buy Derby for £1 and have to spend £130m+ settling debts, covering on going losses and buying Pride Park & the training ground when you can buy a club like Hull for £30m? Burnley (an established Premier League club that make a profit every year only sold for around £120m last year.

You could pick up Cardiff, Swansea, Blackburn, Coventry etc… for a fraction of the cost of buying Derby.

And realistically you’re buying Derby as a League 1 club for that. You’d have to be mental.


Well Mike Ashley doesn't seem to think so and he seems to have made a few quid over the years.
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GollyGTFC
January 23, 2022, 6:36pm

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Quoted from RonMariner


Well Mike Ashley doesn't seem to think so and he seems to have made a few quid over the years.


He hasn’t made a bit though has he? He’s a shrewd business man who’s made some serious money buying distressed businesses for next to nothing, stabilising them and disposing  of them.

He got involved with Rangers new co and made a fortune off them.
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GollyGTFC
January 23, 2022, 6:38pm

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Quoted from RonMariner


Well Mike Ashley doesn't seem to think so and he seems to have made a few quid over the years.


The difference is Mike Ashley doesn’t want to own a football club. His interest is about possibly making money.

The fact he hasn’t made a bid suggests he doesn’t think he’d see a worthwhile return.
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RonMariner
January 23, 2022, 8:42pm

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Not yet but he has been seriously considering it, otherwise he would not waste his time in negotiations.
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diehardmariner
January 24, 2022, 2:18pm
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Quoted from Poojah


I always think it’s harsh to hit the fans over the head with hindsight. Your average fan isn’t going to be skilled in or inclined to forensically investigate the club’s ongoing finances, and for the most part clubs will exude a “nothing to see here, folks” attitude - they simply deny there is anything to worry about until such a time it can no longer be denied.

The ones who do ask questions, what are they meant to do? Boycotts, protests and keyboard warrior-ing rarely do much to enact serious change.

If Derby fans are at fault for their predicament, then so are Town fans for what has happened to this club over the last 20 years. Of course, I don’t feel that’s the case for a millisecond - 99.9% of the fault lays squarely with the owners in cases like this.

I find it hard to see it from any other perspective than the Derby fans’ perspective. If the club goes under, it’s a tragic day for them and their city. I can’t bring myself to wish the death of their club on them, be it for the greater good or not.


Agreed.

I really can't recall too many Town fans up in arms when we were spending £13k a week for Zhang Enhua.  Even with the £2million a season windfall from ITV Digital was that sustainable, especially considering Enhua was just the tip of the iceberg there.  We were happy to welcome the likes of him and David Neilsen in this belief, whipped up by Lennie Lawrence, that we could reach for the stars.

Arguably, we've felt the fall out of it ever since.  I don't mean in terms of having to pay off our debt associated to that, but more the massive weight around our neck it left us with.

Mel Morris' actions are that of a man who cares only for himself.  That shouldn't reflect on Derby as a football club or their fan base.  Justice is justice and they should be punished accordingly but to rip the football club out of a community is too much for me. But for the grace of god we could have been in a boat with similar consequences.
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GollyGTFC
June 8, 2022, 3:31pm

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Oh dear, oh dear. Derby takeover has collapsed.
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malkamalka
June 8, 2022, 4:20pm
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Quoted from GollyGTFC
Oh dear, oh dear. Derby takeover has collapsed.


Mike Ashley may well step in.





"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens." (Jimi Hendrix)
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supertown
June 8, 2022, 5:08pm
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What happens if they fold, who gets their place ?
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sonofmadeleymariner
June 8, 2022, 5:16pm
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Quoted from supertown
What happens if they fold, who gets their place ?


No one, they'll just have 1 less relegation spot i do believe


I don't mind Roy Keane making £60,000 a week. I was making the same when I was playing. The only difference was I was printing my own - Mickey Thomas

The area you are trying to protect at corners is the goal - Chris Kamara

I once said Gazza's IQ was less than his shirt number and he asked me: What's an IQ? - George Best
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jamesgtfc
June 8, 2022, 6:01pm
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Quoted from supertown
What happens if they fold, who gets their place ?


Probably nobody but it definitely won't save Scunny from relegation. Oldham might have faint hopes but the pyramid will run with one less relegation for a season again to allow normality to be restored I imagine.
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GollyGTFC
June 8, 2022, 7:09pm

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No one, they'll just have 1 less relegation spot i do believe


I think Gillingham would be reprieved in L1 & Oldham in L2. I think given they have no money if somebody doesn't come forward by Friday they are in huge trouble. But that's how Mike Ashley likes it. He'll pick them up for a rock bottom price.
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jamesgtfc
June 8, 2022, 7:14pm
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Quoted from GollyGTFC


I think Gillingham would be reprieved in L1 & Oldham in L2. I think given they have no money if somebody doesn't come forward by Friday they are in huge trouble. But that's how Mike Ashley likes it. He'll pick them up for a rock bottom price.


Surely it's harsh to make it one less relegation as those teams are already weeks down the line in their preparation for next season so Gillingham are building for a season in League 2 where they aim to win more than they lose and get a reprieve so end up playing their League 2 team in League 1 meaning they are whipping boys and finish rock bottom?
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ginnywings
June 8, 2022, 7:17pm

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Quoted from jamesgtfc


Surely it's harsh to make it one less relegation as those teams are already weeks down the line in their preparation for next season so Gillingham are building for a season in League 2 where they aim to win more than they lose and get a reprieve so end up playing their League 2 team in League 1 meaning they are whipping boys and finish rock bottom?


I doubt that would worry them if they got to stay in League 1 and have a do-over.
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GollyGTFC
June 8, 2022, 7:27pm

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Quoted from ginnywings


I doubt that would worry them if they got to stay in League 1 and have a do-over.


Yeah, I can't imagine Gillingham would turn down the chance to stay in League 1 with the extra £550,000 in TV Money & Solidarity payments that come with it.
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RonMariner
June 9, 2022, 3:46pm

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Bit premature this. The deal has not collapsed and even if it does Mike Astley will nip in and buy them. His business is based in Derbyshire and he has already expressed interest.
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GollyGTFC
June 10, 2022, 11:24am

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Quoted from RonMariner
Bit premature this. The deal has not collapsed and even if it does Mike Astley will nip in and buy them. His business is based in Derbyshire and he has already expressed interest.


Who's that? Rick's dad?

The deal has collapsed. The guy didn't have the money as many predicted. PNE broke off negotiations with him when he couldn't provide proof of funds. It's hardly surprising the same has ultimately happened with Derby too.

Mike Ashley is interested. That is common knowledge. But the numbers will have to add up for him to be interested. He doesn't buy distressed businesses out of the kindness of his heart. He buys them because they offer him and his portfolio of business interests something. If he does takeover you can be guaranteed that Derby will be starting the season with another points deduction. No way is he paying 25% of their debt off,
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jamesgtfc
June 10, 2022, 11:30am
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Quoted from GollyGTFC


Who's that? Rick's dad?

The deal has collapsed. The guy didn't have the money as many predicted. PNE broke off negotiations with him when he couldn't provide proof of funds. It's hardly surprising the same has ultimately happened with Derby too.

Mike Ashley is interested. That is common knowledge. But the numbers will have to add up for him to be interested. He doesn't buy distressed businesses out of the kindness of his heart. He buys them because they offer him and his portfolio of business interests something. If he does takeover you can be guaranteed that Derby will be starting the season with another points deduction. No way is he paying 25% of their debt off,


Mike Ashley will be aiming to pick up Derby at the 11th hour to save them from the brink of extinction. At that point, everybody is willing to accept virtually any offer and Mike Ashley bags himself what he considers to be a bargain.

If Mike Ashley ends up buying Derby, the deal goes to the wire.
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GollyGTFC
June 10, 2022, 11:34am

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Quoted from jamesgtfc


Mike Ashley will be aiming to pick up Derby at the 11th hour to save them from the brink of extinction. At that point, everybody is willing to accept virtually any offer and Mike Ashley bags himself what he considers to be a bargain.

If Mike Ashley ends up buying Derby, the deal goes to the wire.


Exactly. He'll pick them up at 11th hour for the lowest price at the expense of the creditors. He'll stabilise the club over a few seasons with the aim of getting them back into the Championship where he can sell them on for a tidy profit.
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