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The inquest......so what went wrong?

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buckstown
April 21, 2021, 8:00am
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At the end of the day leaders are accountable for the results of a business. We don't have leaders, we have one leader and a couple of ineffective puppets who nod at the appropriate time. This is my personal opinion but I'd be happy to listen if Philip Day wanted to list his top 5 achievements while involved at out club
The catalogue of ineptitude over the last 16 years has been detailed on this thread, and many times before, but the biggest failure is not engaging the community and putting this once great football club at the heart of the town. You can blame individual managers but none of them were ever going to fulfil their potential in a culture of such failure.
The whole episode is summed up with a look at Blundell Park. Old,  dilapidated and a joke. And how much closer are we to a new stadium than we were 16 years ago? Not even close, just like our team.
Hope you're proud John
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quebec38
April 21, 2021, 8:06am
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Fenty and Holloway.

Fenty needs no explanation.

Holloway looked a fantastic addition last season and we could all have been forgiven for expecting to strongly challenge for promotion this season. Instead, he ripped apart the side and thought he was smart enough to unearth the next Vardy and we ended up with a team full of rubbish from the likes of Aberystwyth and Taunton. We will never know whether these decisions were forced on him due to budgets etc but Holloway has never said (to the best of my knowledge) that he never had the money to bring in better so he can take that portion of blame.

I just want to forget this whole sorry mess now and start again.

First we need to get this deal signed off for the club then look at what’s left in the squad and start rebuilding. Hopefully we can offload the majority of rubbish we have accumulated but I feel like it might be difficult so it could be a couple of seasons down there at the very least, but at least we will be rid of Fenty and have an honest manager if nothing else. Can’t wait to get back to my seat next season with a fresh start.
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dapperz fun pub
April 21, 2021, 8:12am
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It’s like a new fishy forum this for years I’ve read on here that fenty as saved us , without fentys money we wouldn’t have a club blah blah ...
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Yoda
April 21, 2021, 8:16am
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Yes all the clappers are as much to blame as Fenty for propping him up and saying he saved the club.

As i’ve said before he should of been chased out of the club last relegation, but some thought he was doing a good job.
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Humbercod
April 21, 2021, 8:23am
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1.Hurst
2. Fenty
3. Holloway
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Hagrid
April 21, 2021, 8:55am

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Quoted from Humbercod
1.Hurst
2. Fenty
3. Holloway


You have got to be joking
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forza ivano
April 21, 2021, 10:11am

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Quoted from dapperz fun pub
It’s like a new fishy forum this for years I’ve read on here that fenty as saved us , without fentys money we wouldn’t have a club blah blah ...


tbf Dapperz the scales dropped from an awful lot of people's eyes after the May saga was uncovered.
Prior to that they had also seen Macclesfield and Bury being scandalously run out of business, so i think you can forgive people for not being totally anti fenty (& the fact still remains that initially he did save the club from administration)
Many will have also heard and read about Stockwood's approach, which is so refreshing after all these years of antagonism, so they may have realised that there is another way rather than the Fenty way
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friskneymariner
April 21, 2021, 10:22am

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Quoted from Fillipe Noche
Dear All,

The original poster on this thread asked for views and opinions. I contributed with my opinion.

Following my post of my opinion, certain individuals felt it necessary to become highly rude and offensive, writing insults of a foul nature. THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE & IS, AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED, IS CONTRARY TO THE RULES IF THIS FORUM. But I am sure that moderators and admins will confirm this.

I would also point out that in the case of Hagrid, that apologising in advance of being rude and offensive, and then going on to still be rude and offensive, does not in any way make such offensive and insulting behaviour acceptable. On the contrary, if you apologise in advance of such behaviour, it actually makes the said behaviour even worse.

I hope that admin will deal with this type of behaviour



Felipe



Poor old Felipe the eternal victim,as I said earlier classic passive aggressive.


Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
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dapperz fun pub
April 21, 2021, 10:48am
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Quoted from forza ivano


tbf Dapperz the scales dropped from an awful lot of people's eyes after the May saga was uncovered.
Prior to that they had also seen Macclesfield and Bury being scandalously run out of business, so i think you can forgive people for not being totally anti fenty (& the fact still remains that initially he did save the club from administration)
Many will have also heard and read about Stockwood's approach, which is so refreshing after all these years of antagonism, so they may have realised that there is another way rather than the Fenty way


We aren’t bury or macc we are a massive club compared to those 2 we’ve just been poorly run for years hence why massive clubs like morecombe comfortably beat us . 2 decades of pure shite is hard to defend but plenty did along the way plenty ... for me they almost guaranteed the mess. The new guys have got some bollox taking on someone else’s mess but fair play to them I’ll fully support them 100%
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diehardmariner
April 21, 2021, 11:18am
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Let's face it, this club has been on a downward trajectory since John Fenty got involved with the club.  

Yeah, we can argue ITV Digital hit us hard but it Rotherham, Barnsley, were at a similar level and standing to us around that point and they haven't fallen like we have.

But 2016 should have been our reset...so since then:

Failure to build on the momentum of 2016 - Two Wembley finals in the space of 8 days.   Even the uninteresting and hungover FA Trophy Final attracted 10,000 Town fans.  That's about 6,000 more than our average home gate that season who travelled down to London at great expense and inconvenience.  At the very minimum we had 6,000 new customers to go at.  Optimism was the highest it had been for years.  Crying out for a bit of promotion and engagement to add an extra 1,000 + season ticket sales into the summer coffers.    

Instead we were late getting our season tickets on sale, because the printers didn't know what league logo to put on the books....virtually no marketing work to attract new season ticket holders.  We ended up selling a similar season ticket figure to the previous season.  

For context, Lincoln had a waiting list for season tickets after their promotion from the Conference 12 months later.

Failing to invest in infrastructure post 2016 -   I can't have been the only one who was a bit embarrassed in the Conference when part-time teams rocked up to Blundell Park with more staff than would fit in the dugout.  Part-time players with GPS vests on, an analyst in the managers ear with an iPad informing him that the left back had spent the last 8 minutes in Zone 4 Heart Rate and he would need an energy gel in the next five minutes.  We, the supposed big fish in the little pond, had Paul Hurst with his A6 notebook making notes as Dave Moore lobbed bottles of Aldi Lucozade at the players, any science behind it?  Nope. Seen the Premier League clubs doing it though.  How many kilometres has Carl Magnay run today?  We've got three games in 8 days coming up, do we need to protect him now and do we factor this into his training?   Not a clue.  Let's just guess.

It was no surprise it took us so long to get out the Conference.  We weren't a sleeping giant in there, we were a dozing buffoon.  Someone living on former glories thinking we didn't need to adapt.  The one-eyed old bloke in the pub who has spent 45 years pissing his pants in the corner, but still convinced he's the hardest bloke in there because he won the Army Middleweight Boxing Belt in 1962.

We got out the Conference because Hurst had an eye for talent, he persuaded some good players to come here and he built a good spirit.  To top it off in that final season we had a goal machine in Amond, someone backing him up in Bogle and then to finish it off we had Jon Nolan who at the retrospective level was one of the best players we've had in terms of how much better he was than everyone else.  We went up in spite of the fact we had the infrastructure of Brigg Town.  

Hurst quite rightly wanted to move us into the modern age, hell moving into 2003 would have been progress.  He wanted a sports scientists, he wanted an analyst, he wanted a proper strength and conditioning coach.    He knew he wouldn't get it all.  But he deserved better than an extra flipping portakabin.  Promotion back to the league and we got a big shed to store the nets and cones.  

We went from looking out dated in a league with part-time clubs to looking bloody ancient in League Two.


Failure to build on the team in 2016 - I still maintain that at the time, that side wasn't good enough to push the club on in 2016.  It fell over the line in the end. Tait and Nolan were never going to stay.  One wanted to go back to Scotland, the other went to League One.  Toto was another but he wasn't go to stay for whatever reason....but the point is those 3 were going regardless.  Be it we stayed in the Conference or got promoted, they weren't going to be here.  You can't do anything about that.

Then the rest are largely players who haven't really gone onto prove that point wrong.  Craig Clay has had a decent career dipping between the Conference and League Two.  But it's hardly kicking on and going to the next level which we wanted.  Nathan Arnold, who I loved here, didn't prove himself at League Two.  Jon-Paul Pittman, fell back into the Conference.

There's nothing there to suggest that those players would have led us through League Two like a lot of teams have done since winning promotion from the Conference.  This wasn't a Bristol Rovers or a Tranmere side, this was a side that needed strengthening big time.

But we didn't.  Somehow we managed to downgrade on those players.  Ashley Chambers for Arnold. James Berrett for Clay. Shaun bloody Tuton for Pittman.
With the exception of Danny Andrew coming in, we weakened ourselves.  How much of that is down to Hurst and how much of that is down to the budget I'll let you figure out yourself.  I think Hurst got his recruitment wrong that summer but I also think he was hampered by a tight budget.  Three of his summer signings that year came from a club relegated out the league (Chambers, Berrett and Luke Summerfield).

Then of course there was the Amond factor.  The player himself has come out in the last six months to basically say the fault was with Fenty and not Hurst on this one.  No-one in their right mind would let a guy who not only scored just shy of 40-goals for you, but also led your front line superbly, just walk away....then there's John Fenty.

The Bignot Debacle - Hurst left and in hindsight, who can blame him?  But football moves on and Fenty went out to appoint Marcus Bignot.  Again, we now know that it was based on how impressed he was with him during the Bogle transfer.  Which is fair enough, we all get those initial feelings about people and Fenty is clearly no different than us.  Do you appoint a football manager on the back of it? Probably not.  But it's ok, because you do a bit of due diligence, right?  Nope.  

Bignot came in with a remit to build something, build a legacy.  He was told he had time to do it.  At this point I was quite happy with this.  You could see the work he had done at Solihull and he clearly liked a project.  He seemed quite modern with his approach and initially got a tune out the players.  But the step-up was huge.  He quite clearly needed a little bit of help and an older head to just guide him through those 12 months.  Bignot clearly had an ego on him and rather than reaching out for that mentor, he brought his mates in to help him.  It's almost a parallel, you surround yourself with Yes Men and you're never doing wrong.  

Having refused to give Hurst any infrastructure, Bignot got what he wanted.  We had unleashed a greedy kid into the sweet shop.  Striker?  Yeah, have another one mate.  We've got that Bogle money.  Spend it as you see fit.  Build a big squad.

At this point we just lost control.  Bignot signed some good players...but we let them travel from Birmingham on a daily basis.  That was never going to work.  If it was a loan signing at the end of the season or a Garry Birtles type figure who can be trusted to train on his own for 3 days a week then fine, but these were lads in their mid 20's.    Should Bignot have allowed that? Absolutely not.  Should Fenty have stepped in?  Most certainly.  He didn't want to step in then because he was happy having his ego stroked.  We'd had a bit of footballing fortune with the Bogle sale and he was too smug bragging about the depth of our squad to everyone who would listen.

Eventually when he came round to realising that a 45 man squad was too much, especially with a lot of high earners and a dressing room split because half the team lived miles and miles away, he acted.  He hung out Bignot to dry for the two things he backed him on: 1) Building a big squad and 2) rebuilding something.

The knee jerk reaction - Having wasted the Bogle money, Fenty realised that we needed to cut the cloth accordingly.  I mean, benign loans aren't going to get repaid if you've got an expensive team are they?  So in came his old mate Russell Slade.  

I listened to the Paul Bolland podcast last week and was interesting to hear him say how Slade built such a good spirit in the dressing room in his first spell.  I liked Slade in that spell.  So his second spell was really disappointing.  More so because he failed to recognise the value of the dressing room.  Already fragmented, he made the cardinal sin of breaking the heart of it up.  

Craig Disley was coming to the end of his career, he wasn't the player he was and it was the right time.  But his loss in the dressing room was going to be absolutely huge.  A big void to fill.  Fortunately we still had a few stalwarts left from 12 months before who would ensure that the spirit remained.  But Slade got rid.  He got rid of the leader of the dressing room in Shaun Pearson.  Now, you can argue all you want about Pearson's ability at this level and fair enough he has been in the Conference ever since.  But as a leader of the dressing room, we've not yet replaced him in my eyes.  Slade claimed it was a matter of circumstance and that he just had too many defenders on the books.   He then went onto sign Nathan Clarke and Karleigh Osborne (remember him?  I don't blame you if you dont').   Clarke was a disaster.  Osborne was largely injured but poor and sluggish when he played.

Further penny pinching ensued.  Sam Jones is a player who history will say wasted his potential.  But Slade didn't really do much to get it out of him. High earner...off you go.  It's ok though, Slade had already brought in the prolific JJ Hooper so we were all good!

The football was turgid.  Results were dire and the anger built up towards Fenty.   Protests started to happen with the main one in the car park before the Cambridge game.  Would Fenty fall on his sword?  Nah, he just threw his mate onto it instead.  Slade was a disaster but to say he was doing anything but acting on Fenty's mandate would be simply daft.  

Around this time Fenty also thought it would be a good idea to mysteriously get in the back of someone's car who was recording him.  Because I often just get in the back of a car with a stranger and start spilling secrets left, right and centre....Within this he insulted former and current players as well as former managers.  Classy.

Oh and then of course there was the 'You lost trust, Matt' sabotage.  The fans forum where Fenty and his acolytes blindsided a local journalist and Town fan for doing his job.  Because Matt Dean had the audacity to report on Curtis Woodhouse joining in the training set-up....a report that was later proven to be accurate I believe, just that the club backtracked on it.  

Fenty was so arrogant that he didn't think the bloody camera in front of him would catch him winking to his cronies at the point they ambushed Dean.  It was also the same forum where Marley told fans to 'shut up'.  

Classy, again.


Jolley

In hindsight.  Jolley's tenure was arguably the most uneventful period since coming back into the league.  I don't care how it went afterwards.  The guy performed a bloody miracle in 2018 to keep us up, especially with that team.   There were fleeting moments where I felt he would build something special here and I think he actually wanted to.  

All said it didn't work out.  Again penny pinching at play, he got frustrated and we as fans grew tired of his negative style.  No complaints when he was sacked.  Mystery over who recorded the rant that actually no-one, even the guy who it was aimed at, really cared that much about.  Everyone just put it down to a hissy fit which we're all prone too.  



Holloway - Hands up.  I got drawn in.  I wasn't particularly keen on his appointment as I've always felt he was a rent-a-quote type.  But he got the area buzzing, he worked his audience well and I came away from that Fans Forum last January thinking we were going to win the Champions League within 6 years.  He brought in better players than we had and we ended the curtailed season looking half decent.  We weren't quite there for a play-off push but definitely a lot of hope for this season.

Yet then it all went wrong...

A dogshit budget.  
Not activating a clause in the contract of your most valuable asset at the time.
Not having a budget to keep your better players (Clarke, Hessenthaler...)
Telling young players to get a second job rather than get a payrise.
Having such a dogshit budget that you're signing the dregs that no-one else will want.
Insisting on a Covid-clause that no-one else has done so players turn you down.
Thinking you would get away with one pre-season game.
Building your team on raw loanees and lads from well down the pyramid.

Players who no-one was particularly disappointed to see go would have walked into this team.  Akheem Rose, Harry Davis, Harry Cardwell....that's how poor our recruitment was last summer.

Some of this is Holloway, some of this is Fenty.  Between them someone should have realised that everything they were cutting back on would have an impact.

Added to it all the absolute farce over Anthony Limbrick.  A really good, respected and liked coach.  As caretaker manager his work was quite clear to see.  Post-Jolley we were a shambles, it became clear that there was no direction and no guidance.  Results weren't great under Limbrick but game by game you could see the improvements and the structure he was giving us.  Without that foundation, Holloway wouldn't have been able kick on in January and February like he did.  What we were left with in the coaching set-up was a very raw and inexperienced Ben Davies and Holloway (who by all accounts did nothing on the training ground anyway).  

Also under Holloway we had the Covid situation.  Dunno if he mentioned it but it affected the club more than anyone else.  To the point that we were affected so badly we didn't have to adhere to the rules of it.  Did our failure to socially distance players really have an impact on our league position, probably not....but it just gives a taste of the shoddy way the club is run.

Tyre-kickers and Alex May

Bubbling away in the background for the last two years was Fenty's arrogant belief that no-one else could run this football club.  Anyone who legitimately expressed an interest was labelled a tyre-kicker.  No real substance behind it other than Fenty didn't want to sell.

A year ago it was stated that any prospective new owners would need to find funds to run the club should it fall upon hard-times.  As if by magic, a few months later the club does fall on hard times and rather than backing up his own set-standard, Fenty gets the begging bowl out and tells fans to cough up even more.  

He then continues an attempted character assassination on legitimate businessmen with a background that makes his look laughable to say the least.   This wasn't even embarrassing, it was shameful.  You've got guys who are involved in big corporations on a day-to-day basis and then you've got the guy who climbs a floodlight to save a few quid saying they're not the real deal.  

When one of the party pulled out of the consortium, which had no impact at all on the outcome of the deal, he couldn't wait to put the boot in.  

So happy to put the boot in on things like that, yet he's still not apologised for trying to bring in a convicted conman into the fold of the club.  He still thinks he's done nothing wrong and got his teaboy to go on the radio telling everyone that May's crimes were victimless.

Further example of class.

Hurst

I feel for the guy.  He had a poisoned chalice and he hasn't turned it round.  He's made us competitive again and in some respects gave us a side we could be proud of.  But it was a step too far.  Last night we were done for.  We looked exhausted and flat.  To say we were down to the bare bones doesn't even cut it.  

But ultimately he took too long to make us solid and the main failing is that he took a punt on one playing scoring the goals to fire us to safety in Stefan Payne.  He was the one bit of quality we needed and he left us (and Hurst down).  Doesn't matter how you look at it, that money could and should have been spent better elsewhere.  Had it been so, I think we might be looking at the table in a very different light today.

I don't blame him for our relegation but ultimately football is a results business and under Hurst we haven't got enough points on the board.


So since 2016 there's a constant theme running through our spell back in the Football League.  Many errors along the way, no lessons that we've learned and lots of examples of bad management.  I'll leave it down to you to decide what the common denominator in all of this is....
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