Jesus Christ

Quoted from Rick12

I think it goes deeper than that Kingston. The essence of the Catholic church is they tried to preserve the pureness of Jesus's message as it was being watered down and argued upon like you have loosely pointed out above in the years after his death . Its why you get different strands now of Christianity eg Mormonism, protestants etc . Its a sort of deviation from Jesus's message. Its why vicars in the church of England can get married and have children where the Catholic clergy cant. You get other seriously devout members of the Catholic church as well who follow Jesus and the deeper message of trying to follow the divine. Think of  Cistercian monks . Their day starts with getting up at 3.15 am to pray and at various points throughout the day alongside work which maintains their abbey.

That’s what the Catholic Church says. It’s their way of rubbishing the other versions. ‘We’re the true interpreters of Jesus Christ. We’re the first.’ Go and talk to an Orthodox follower and he or she would tell you Catholics are wayward sons. Dangerous schismatics who split from the one true faith.

And as I’ve pointed out above, re the Council of Nicea, what we call Christians (regardless of sect) were not the only followers of  Jesus* at that point. * I deliver use that term as not all of them believed he was the Christ (ie Messaiah) or the Son of God.

Here’s a good statement to discuss:

“With religion, good people do bad things.
Without religion, bad people do bad things.”

Quoted from ginnywings

I didn't exist for billions of years before I was born and I won't exist for billions of years after I die. I will rot and be consumed back into the earth, where my nutrients will give life to something else. That's how nature works.

I agree with that but I still feel there's a dimension to this whole universe man will never fathom. Your brain is just part of something more complex which makes up this universe-God.

Quoted from ginnywings

I'd also take issue with your assertion that religion has done more good than bad: it's a patently false statement in my opinion.

The bit in bold particularly gets my goat, as if non believers can't live a just life and strive for a better society.

Again Ive seen many cases where if wasn't for Jesus /religion people would of never changed eg criminals. Sometimes it takes something more to change people. Psychologists / counsellors and the like will never get through to some people as there doing it for the money. Priests on the other hand do it as a vocation and only get paid living expenses . Its this warmth of soul aligned to Jesus/divine that changes certain hardcore people where science and the like cant touch. I would add though the effort on mans part has to be forthcoming as well.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

That’s what the Catholic Church says. It’s their way of rubbishing the other versions. ‘We’re the true interpreters of Jesus Christ. We’re the first.’ Go and talk to an Orthodox follower and he or she would tell you Catholics are wayward sons. Dangerous schismatics who split from the one true faith.

And as I’ve pointed out above, re the Council of Nicea, what we call Christians (regardless of sect) were not the only followers of  Jesus* at that point. * I deliver use that term as not all of them believed he was the Christ (ie Messaiah) or the Son of God.

Thing is there are quite a few ancient manuscripts from differing authors(non biblical)  all within years of Jesus death that show early followers of Jesus tried to keep Jesus's sayings alive and unblemished-eg the catholic church. This is why when you go to a Catholic church service things tend to be more ritualised and holy than other Christian services. Its an effort to keep to Jesus's original teachings intact.

I think its a shame that the Eastern orthodox church split with the western church but again this is due to mans interpretation of Jesus divine message. It reminds me a bit of a rechargeable battery. When the output is not there anymore things become diluted and weak.

Quoted from DB

Quoted from DB


I believe that many of the things you mention are man made mainly by tyrants/dictators call them what you like wanting power/money and a selfish obsession. You also have to factor in the greed of people who create problems like climate change, know what the problem is and continue to ignore it for their own selfish greed ( destruction of Amazon rain forests etc.)The realignment of tectonic plates are a natural disaster for the people who suffer from their actions, but it could be argued that this is evolution or realignment of creation.

As I said  before it's all a matter of our own personal choices what we believe.


No, it could not.

Why ?

Because a tectonic plate does not evolve. A movement in a tectonic plate is not a random genetic mutation, there is no selective advantage to the plate over other plates and at no point does it pass on its genetic material. If you think an earthquake is arguably an example of evolution then you have literally no understanding of what evolution is.

Well I haven't got anything to add but I did enjoy reading all five pages (to date) of this thread.
The non-football related Fishy at it's best.

Quoted from Rick12

Psychologists / counsellors and the like will never get through to some people as there doing it for the money. Priests on the other hand do it as a vocation and only get paid living expenses.

Psychologists and Counsellors may not get through to some people that is true, but the notion it is because they are paid is a ridiculous assertion.

The argument that priests somehow do their work purely for altruistic reasons is disingenuous too. They do it for a currency but it is just not money.

Quoted from Sandford1981

Psychologists and Counsellors may not get through to some people that is true, but the notion it is because they are paid is a ridiculous assertion.

The argument that priests somehow do their work purely for altruistic reasons is disingenuous too. They do it for a currency but it is just not money.

Quite. The idea that people who work in healthcare of any sort only do it for the money is frankly insulting.

Quoted from Sandford1981

Psychologists and Counsellors may not get through to some people that is true, but the notion it is because they are paid is a ridiculous assertion.

The argument that priests somehow do their work purely for altruistic reasons is disingenuous too. They do it for a currency but it is just not money.

Its not ridiculous  though. Priests do it because they have deep conviction for Jesus and the divine. Ive witnessed as well the power of a priest that is truly healing whereas the psychologist  always lacks something eg the spiritual dimension which can never be grasped by science alone. Its this spiritual warmth that comes from the heart/soul of a genuine priest no phycologist/scientist will ever attain to the same degree as a priest who has spent his life developing.

Quoted from barralad

Well I haven't got anything to add but I did enjoy reading all five pages (to date) of this thread.
The non-football related Fishy at it's best.

Pleased you like it

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I’m not comparing Jesus Christ to Stalin. I’m comparing what happened after the Council of Nicea to Stalinist purges. Our version of religion/socialism or you're anathema.

Never heard of the word so I googled it and I'm not.